Affordable FFB! Hand Flying IFR in Flight Sim is GARBAGE… Until Now?

[@clarencewiles963]

For someone who is only Sim they don’t know what is true feedback is. So having a pilot going through a system is probably the best thing you could do. Thanks for your input though testing.

[@casedistorted]

It sucks not having true force feedback due to all the patents the last few decades that made them stuck on driving wheels only. It would be nice if we finally began getting force feedback on flight yokes and sticks like we did in the early 2000's so it feels more realistic. It is one of those things that keeps me from wanting to get into flight sim gear for a long time.

[@jonathanirons231]

Steve's enthusiasm level is firmly locked onto "Steve, you won the lottery", "I am not completely disappointed". ;-)

[@FlightChops]

😂

[@KCLIBURN-mj9qx]

I've been watching your vids for some time now and like when you take viewers on rides while showing instrument indications. I've loved planes since my time in the USN on an airbase and the boat and these videos have made me want to get a reputable simulator and good computer and controls setup to play around again. I had MSFS flight sim running on an XP / XP2 platform and got halfa** results but it was fun. Seeing what is around now is getting my curiousity going again. Thanks for all these videos and your time spent in producing and research. Keep up the good work!

[@snowman100]

Am just starting my instruments training and the SIM we have I found it difficult to understand the feel since am used to reacting to feel in york in real fly with my visual. To have one that has some feel to replicate the real even a little, that's a great achievement!

[@casedistorted]

Gotta say thanks to all the patents that screwed us for so long. Might be time they're finally coming back to flight sticks and yokes. I am very excited if that is the case. Driving wheels aren't the only sim devices that deserve force feedback.

[@joshcantrell1314]

So accurate❤❤!! When I was doing my instrument training I would get so frustrated, and then somewhat discouraged. After calling the sim baby ugly and moving to the aircraft everything clicked and I really started to like instrument.

[@UBAYBE]

Would love that setup! I wish our Canadian Air cadets had access to such sims.

[@pilotbsinthesky3443]

I agree, there are so many internal settings within Xplane, MSFS and the yoke software I think it would take a month or more of serious flying to get it dialed in. I love they have produced a more economical version for us budget simmers. BTW I love using airmanager with my Ipad as a secondary monitor and knobster over realism gear, way more economical and I can change gear as I change aircraft for training.

[@mattglandfield680]

Air Manager is essential in the panel you see in this video. During my PPL training I did not want to get handicapped by one set of avionics. I even have Steve's RV-14 built to run on my panel so that when I fly with him I am practiced up on the G3X touch and GTN 750

[@seattime4075]

I have a DIY Stick and yoke (built with big servo VPforce kits) which I have been using for over a year. IMO software is the most important part of the package, which will likely improve as this new product evolves. In regard to ground stick force, with good software you can basically make it feel exactly like you want.

[@Weaseltube]

Been watching FFB reviews everywhere finally YT recomended this one and it’s the best so far. It did leave me with a couple questions though... That turn rate in the 172, could it have been due to the trim being set for a climb? If not, then it’d be nice to state that in the video. For the stiff feeling yoke on the ground, is that something that can be tuned in software? If not, then again it would be nice to hear that in the video. Feels like real quality consumer grade FFB is in its infancy though. Excited to watch this space as things develop. Thanks for the realistic review.

[@JohnVanderbeck]

I have the CLS-120 on order and hopefully get it soon. Glad to hear my choice wasn't bad :)

[@Timbo428CJ]

Wow Steve, that looks super cool to sim with 👍🏻 I'll bet the giveaway on that will have tons of entry too. Very cool !!

[@filakyle3663]

I like you channel and i learn a lot from it. And becouse I fly with sim only. Its great to see differences you explain.

[@justinc5356]

I've been waiting for REAL FFB for so long.

[@sonjaroets844]

Nice to see the old supercub, its been a while

[@TrentKama]

This is probably as close as you need to get to a home equivalent of a ~$200k PFC DCX MAX sim used for IFR training. They feel pretty crappy to use as well, but it's good enough for the basics and IFR. FFB makes a huge difference even if it's not perfect.

[@Will-j8q1w]

Nice video. I'd suggest you set your yoke/joystick sensitivities settings and or response curves before you try any type of yoke or sim for that matter otherwise you're NOT getting the true feel of the yoke and what it can do in X Plane.

[@CraigMaiman]

I want a force feedback floor-mounted stick, like my own personal airplane. I have an excellent floor-mounted stick, but force feedback (and more realistic trim!) would make it much better.

[@andrewbergman9315]

TPR rudder pedals are awesome but you need an adjustable damper mod on them to really get the feel of real rudders

[@mthiffau]

While I find VR can have it's own headaches (eg. the controllers suck so I use a mouse for anything not bound to a button on my yoke/throttle), I find overall it's less headache than dealing with a whole physical panel. I find Navigraph Charts is a decent enough stand-in for ForeFlight, I use it to fly on PilotEdge with very few issues.

[@goatflieg]

For a long time I've wished I had the spare cash to set up a decent home sim. Using the old Redbird at the airport is rather funky, to say the least. I used to tolerate it better back in the days when I wasn't flying much, but after being spoiled by 170 hours in the RV-8, I kinda hate the sim experience. Especially the ground handing, as you said... it's just the worst! I'll start using the sim more often in the future just for procedural practice and tying to keep my head in the game. Wonder if I could configure a home sim setup as a Kolb Firestar with custom GRT panel? Throw it on the dream pile, I guess.

[@reeltrides911S]

You’re never going to get the real feed back of a real plane, no matter how fancy or expensive. I’ve seen real multi million dollar sims at the airline I used to work for and pilots say they are good, but not quite the same. I use mine to shoot approaches of all kind and hand fly all the way down for proficiency. I use MSFS 2020 with a wide screen yoke and rudder set up. It needs tweaking now and then but the TBM 930, Bonanza G36 and the 172 work pretty good. Good video though

[@NanaHoshi35]

Nice details on stick force and feels than other reviews, appreciate that! And do you think the dampening effect is over tho? Heard some comments online saying it feels over dampened than a real C172..(not 60N version like this tho, it's from a 120N version user).

[@larrysouthern5098]

Old time sinner (simmer) here..to me the holy grail of basic flight simmer is a ffb stick and yoke that gives you the "BUMP AND GRIND".feeling...to me I can pass up on fancy VR..motion rigs..etc. Just give the basics . for now with my cheap setup I have.. Computer (laptop..flat screen tv..MSFS 2002 PRO EDITION.AND A FFB SICK OR YOKE.RUDDERS.) and I'm a happy bouy!! Put a fan going full speed in front of me and my sim..a cold soda and a bag of chips and a burger..or burritos and whooeee!! I haven't dipped my toe in The MSFS 2020 world yet..might even go with an XBOX rig if its cheap enough..Pawn shops..Goodwill dumpster diving.etc.. I am simple old fool.. Cya 🐦 ❤ I don't need much to

[@flownbyloaf]

Nice Vid Steve, I am pretty sure there is a force feedback stick out there somewhere that you can get, might be worth trying to find that or get hold of one for your RV14 setup I believe it's called FFBeast :)

[@FlightChops]

Thanks - I will check it out

[@NanaHoshi35]

@@FlightChops FFBeast currently doesn't support X-plane tho. VPForce supports it but the wait list for their "plug-and-fly" Rhino base is long..unless you are willing to or can find someone to build one from their DIY kits for you

[@VRFlightSimGuy]

Nice review 😊

[@davidkitchingman2222]

nice.How possible is it to still use the trim wheel on the bravo throttle quadrant with that forcefeedback yoke?Or do you have to use the trim switch on the yoke? Just curious.

[@flitesimcom]

This feature already exists: kzbin.info/www/bejne/gICaoHWVj8uXidU

[@justinc5356]

"Nose up and don't give it back!"

[@PilotFlo]

The chief honcho of x-plane (sry forgot his name) once said, while testing the brunner, that for a realistic vibration there are more variables to consider then engine revs. They should get in contact with him for a more realistic felling (guy knows what he's doing

[@PilotFlo]

*feeling

[@libertine5606]

If that yoke can come in at under 1000 USD with shipping it could be a winner. If they get force feed back rudder pedals maybe I will get my multi. Until then I will be building my sim while I do my IPC. I just bought a Mooney 201 and am upgrading it with a Garmin 3x, 750, dual G-5s, and a 500. My sim will replicate that.

[@nathantw]

Brunner has FF rudders. It’s $2000 though.

[@libertine5606]

@@nathantw Ya, that would be a little too much. I have a Ruddo and it works great. But if I could get a pair of force feedback I could do multi-engine training and $1000 is about my limit.

[@iflyc77]

I dont understand what you mean when you say you can't trim in a sim without force feedback. I've been using a $30 Logitech Pro stick for like 20 years and trim constantly

[@WhiteHawk77]

Some people have trouble going from real to sim when there isn’t feedback, and trimming is the biggest plus when you have a FFB controller where without it you are doing a dance of applying force, trim, force, trim, force, trim till it’s correct, you don’t have to do that with FFB, it behaves like the real thing where you are not fighting against a spring while trying to trim. I have also used flight sims for decades and I deal with the trimming same as you, but that doesn’t mean it’s realistic or as easy as the real thing is and when he’s used to it behaving a certain way the fighting the spring way probably throws him off.

[@jppalm3944]

Amazing

[@1shARyn3]

looping is another sim problem

[@JohnVanderbeck]

Now we just need rudder pedals that feel real so we aren't fishtailing all over the place.

[@nathantw]

Brunner has FF rudders. They’re just really expensive at $2k.

[@iNherjer]

@@nathantwFliteSim announced their pedals for the end of the year

[@azcharlie2009]

For all the money people spend of flight simulators, it's sad that they can't be used for logging instrument time. I challenge anyone in the FAA to explain why they can't be used? By the time you spend all the money, you might as well buy a low end Redbird. Thankfully, they're much better than the used to be. Too bad they can't be upgraded. The one at our FBO is really outdated.

[@mattglandfield680]

There is some progress on the front of getting these types of Sim's certified by both the FAA and Transport Canada. The main roadblock is that the avionics are limited by the software running the simulation. Both Xplane and Microsoft offer a G1000 for example that works with home sim hardware, yet the logic and function of the G1000 software in the sim is not 1:1 to the real avionics therefore not fully suitable for training.

[@iflyc77]

I tell people all the time that it doesn't necessarily fly like an airplane, it flys like a sim. But it can still help you develop your scan and procedures no matter how good or bad it "flys." I dont think the huge high dollar sim set ups like this are worth it at all. Just like learning to fly a new airplane, you have to learn how to fly the sim. Until you can look exactly where you want to look without thinking about it, tune a radio with as little effort as you tune a real one etc - you are losing immersion. Once you learn the sim, the correlations really begin

[@FlightChops]

Agreed yes, sims can be awesome for procedures and workflow. This video is addressing that realistic hand flying in a home sim is FINALLY becoming closer to attainable.

[@AllenPortman]

What do you mean you can't trim flight sims? I fly XP11 using Honeycomb Alpha yoke and Bravo controller and they trim and provide control very well???

[@Wilem35]

Nothing compares to VR and a motion rig.

[@FlightChops]

I like VR in theory, but for IFR workflow I need to see and feel the physical avionics, be able to write down clearances on a knee board, etc... it would require more of an AR set up with pass through googles (like Apple vision pro) for that to work

[@edcew8236]

I'd give up motion for force feedback and peripheral cue visuals. Motion sims really only prepare you for other motion sims..

[@userSchlonsch]

@@FlightChopsMy flight school has a motion rig with VR and a physical G1000 PFD and MFD plus all relevant switches for a DA40. Haven’t had the chance to try it though so I don’t know how well the mix of VR and a physical panel works or if it has some sort of pass-through.

[@NanaHoshi35]

@@FlightChops there are some workaround other than MR actually, namely Openkneeboard for kneeboard, and HTCC for interacting with the virtual instruments (both are developed by Fred Emmott) Also a device called PointCTRL could be helpful. There are some MR passthrough apps for Quest 3 as well. Quest 3 is probably the best-value MR headset nowadays, altho there are some compromises. Pimax has better headsets for sim but no one knows when their MR module will come. And I agree virtual cockpit will never replace the need for tactile feedback from the physical equipment especially for the knobs. This is a secret only shared by those who also has ever flown an aircraft IRL😜

[@NanaHoshi35]

lol no dude, FFB device is just like VR for your hands.

[@1hornet1]

If I had a plane with a stall warning like the one in that sim, I would sell it! 🤣