Montgomery: Unbeatable and unbearable? | Great British Battle Commanders

[@johnnunn8688]

Excellent and enlightening discussion. Thank you, BFBS.

[@TokyoLamia]

Normandy casualties: Germany: 320,000 USA: 135,000 UK: 65,000 Canada: 18,000 France (civilians): 12,000

Wonderful presentation and production. Montgomery was a born soldier. One can imagine Churchill doing many things but not Monty who was utterly single minded. Great series so far😂

[@normmcrae1140]

My Dad fought under Gen Montgomery in Sicily & Italy (1st Canadian Armoured Brigade - Calgary Tanks), and had NOTHING BUT PRAISE for him. I didn't hear many stories about the war, but here's a short one.... General Monty was a bit of an odd duck. He was out checking out the troops one day in Italy - where the weather was SCORCHINGLY HOT. His vehicle passed a truck doing an ammunition run, and was a bit stunned to see several Canadians either loading or unloading the truck, completely NAKED - except for their boots and ...... TOP HATS. The next day - a General Order was issued.... "TOP HATS Will NOT be worn in the British 8th Army." 🤣

[@fredslipknot9]

Hahahahahaha

[@victornewman9904]

My father remembered a passing-out patade at Eaton Hall, where Monty said: "we all respect leaders who are heroic: I want you to be leaders who make it unnecessary [by out-thinking the enemy]."

[@fredslipknot9]

That’s very wise! Personally I kind of feel like the whole reason the modern Western theory of warfare even exists is basically this principle. Because it underpins everything we do.

[@peterwebb8732]

There is supposedly a comparison made between Rommel and Montgomery… It being said that in an emergency, Rommel would always be there. Montgomery made sure that there were no emergencies.

I think the best quote I heard to sum up Monty was ''not as good as he said, but a lot better than his detractors say''.

[@Scaleyback317]

Just that!

[@johnpeate4544]

According to this video Slim was Britain’s best General. Yet: Philip ‘Pip’ Roberts had this to say: _’I should like to close my reminiscences with a tribute to Monty. _*_I do not believe there was anyone else at the time who could have won Alamein; I do not say that if we and lost Alamein we would have lost the war but it would certainly have prolonged it…..And then it is my view that no-one else could have won the invasion in Normandy;_*_ there were some setbacks, but the Seine was reached on the day he said it would be, and that made certain they the war in Europe would be won.’_ Slim had several failed attacks to his name. Montgomery never had a failure - never. In November 1940 Brigadier Slim, as he then was, was instructed to capture the Sudanese frontier fort of Gallabat that had been taken by the Italians and Metemma, the corresponding Italian fort in Abyssinia. He did recapture Gallabat, but his advance on Metemma was repulsed amid some panic; the Italians then drove him out of Gallabat as well. In March 1942, Lieutenant General Slim commanded Burma Corps-two infantry divisions and an armoured brigade-opposed by a single Japanese division, but he suffered a series of defeats ending only in May with the flight of his remaining troops into India. The Japanese were formidable soldiers. Slim called the Japanese ‘the most formidable fighting insects in the world’ and it is often assumed that they were the most dangerous of all opponents. Ronald Lewin, however, in Ultra Goes to War: The Secret Story, specifically compares them with the SS formations in Normandy and rates these ‘even more formidable’. They certainly had better equipment. The soldiers advancing on Mandalay encountered just thirteen obsolescent light tanks-promptly wiped out by anti-tank Hurricanes-but those advancing on Caen faced from 520 to 725 tanks that were far from obsolescent. Indeed, before examining Montgomery’s offensive battles it is worth considering the difficulties he faced. He did have a superiority in numbers, though nothing like as great as that enjoyed by Slim or, for that matter, by Auchinleck in the battles of July 1942. On the other hand, he fought very capable enemies: the SS troops and parachutists in North-West Europe and Panzerarmee Afrika in the desert. He often had to overcome strong, skilfully prepared fixed defences and always had to cope with weapons of similar or superior quality; principally tanks, anti-tank guns and mortars. In addition, Montgomery was opposed by enemy commanders of a very high standard. Slim did not have the same problem, for the best Japanese generals were not wasted on a sideshow like Burma but were in the Philippines, Iwo Jima or Okinawa. He was up against Rommel in North Africa from Alam Halfa to Medenine and the list of his opponents in North-West Europe is an impressive one: Rommel, von Rundstedt, Model, Kesselring, Student, von Manteuffel and several others of only slightly lesser ability. Slim’s twin victories of Kohima and Imphal really were great ones. While Fourteenth Army had fewer than 17,000 casualties, the Japanese had 53,000 that could never be replaced and so ensured a subsequent British reconquest of Burma. The Japanese, however, were very inferior in numbers of men, artillery, armour-only fifteen Japanese tanks appeared and these of inferior quality-and in the air. They were also desperately short of ammunition, medical supplies and even food. Yet the battles were won only after savage struggles of attrition lasting from early March to early July 1944 and compared by participants on both sides to the brutal conflicts of the First World War. That emphasizes the courage and tenacity displayed by British, Indians and Japanese alike-Bose’s double-deserters dishonourably excepted-but would not normally be regarded as a tribute to the generalship on either side. Compare the generalship shown in Montgomery’s defensive battles. At Alam Halfa with the two sides nearer to an even balance than at any other time and the enemy possessing superior tanks and anti-tank guns, Montgomery won by a combination of determination and flexibility plus an admirable use of his supporting air power. The same qualities won the Ardennes Battle. Medenine, on the other hand, was a deliberate attempt to trap and destroy German armour: a new concept that a desert veteran like Kippenberger could call a ‘masterpiece’.” Slim never carried out an amphibious landing; those in Burma were executed by Lieutenant General Christison, including the one in May 1945 that led to the capture of Rangoon before the Fourteenth Army could reach it. It can’t however however, in difficulty or importance can be ranked equal to Montgomery’s achievement as ‘NEPTUNE’s general’, as Ronald Lewin called Montgomery. If Slim was imaginative it was clearly not in the field of strategy. In the first Burma campaign, the Japanese, having taken Rangoon, had two lines of advance into Upper Burma: the valleys of the Irrawaddy and Sittang Rivers. The former was blocked by Slim’s Burma Corps and the latter by two Chinese formations called ‘armies’, but each only equal to a British corps in manpower and vastly weaker in equipment, transport and supporting units. In addition, Slim faced only one Japanese division while the Chinese were confronted with three. Since the Chinese understandably proved unable to hold their ground, Slim’s left flank was continually open to attack. Yet Major General James Lunt in A Hell of a Licking reports that Slim declared his ‘intention to recapture Rangoon before the monsoon broke in mid-May’. Slim’s memoirs discreetly omit this, but do confirm his constant desire to counter-attack. He never seems to have realized that the further south his counter-attacks progressed, the more chance there was of his men being cut off when his left flank gave way, and the more men who took part, the more were endangered. Slim showed little more strategic imagination at later times. By the end of 1944, shattering Japanese defeats at Kohima and Imphal had been followed by still greater ones elsewhere, notably in October 1944 the titanic Battle of Leyte Gulf. In this the Japanese fleet was eliminated, ensuring their loss of the Philippines and the natural resources for which they had gone to war in the first place. After this, their army in Burma could not be strengthened but lost troops who were sent to the Pacific. In these circumstances, the strategy of Slim and the theatre’s Supreme Commander, Mountbatten, was very limited: that of ‘reaching Mandalay before the monsoon’. It was Leese, after his arrival as Commander-in-Chief, Land Forces in November 1944, who urged the much more daring and successful strategy of taking Rangoon as well. As he would write to his wife, ‘When I first came out here it was never even thought of.’ Slim never acknowledged Leese’s action

[@peterwebb8732]

As an Australian familiar with MacArthur’s role - and behaviour - in the SW Pacific, it would be easy to see the American High Command as intensely competitive and political…. and that would go a long way to explain the American distaste for Montgomery. He was almost as arrogant as they were. 😂 (Ok, Ike being an obvious exception. 👍)

[@peterpluim7912]

Tedder was not intelligent enough as he finished his eduction with a lower second at Cambridge, Eisenhower was just a politician who had an affair with a junior officer, Leigh-Mallory was a back stabber who warned against the air drops the night before the operation was launched, Montgomery was a prima donna and lacked any personal charm, Bradley was dull and without imagination, Ramsey retired before the war and was too old and Smith was just a factotum of Eisenhower. Yet somehow, these men planned the landing in Normandy as good as can be reasonably expected. Either the armchair generals that I’ve quoted are not very smart or they are missing the point or both.

[@henrycastle1]

How could Monty in the hour of careless talk costs lives declare, “We are drawing the Panzer Devisions (7?,) on Caan, withdrawal then destroy.” Why would he say that at any time? Because it was part of the plan They all knew the plan It all takes time to eventually leave space for a breakout Discretion is the better part of valour

[@peterwebb8732]

The irony lies in the accusations of ego against a man who deliberately left himself open to criticism, because it was the right thing to do.

[@Pz.history]

A true leader

[@carabus0354]

Excellent well informed video. Thank you.

[@8223Mike]

This is turning out to be a great series. Thanks BFBS!

[@ixdine3057]

Thank you

[@johnpeate4544]

_”Nigel Hamilton’s assessment of Montgomery as ‘Master of the Battlefield’ does not seem exaggerated then. It is in fact echoed by his subordinates and staff officers. Richardson calls Montgomery ‘without a doubt a supreme master of the battlefield’. Roberts declares bluntly that no one except Montgomery could have won either Alamein or Normandy. Leese, who incidentally saw at close quarters how both Alexander and Slim won battles, considers Montgomery ‘the greatest soldier of our age’, often ‘most difficult and even exasperating’ to his equals and superiors, yet ‘as a commander to serve under on the battlefield, it’s Monty for my money any day.’”_ - Monty's Greatest Battles 1942-1945 by Adrian Stewart

[@bigwoody4704]

Johnny good to see you're dusting off your old accounts because no one believes this one,keep scribbling your made up rot and presenting it as the authors. Which page number so we can prove your back to to scribbling nonsense Barrie Rodliffe joined 26 Sept 2013 Giovanni Pierre joined 28 Sept 2013 John Peate joined 28 Sept 2013 John Burns joined 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell joined 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston joined 20 Nov 2013

[@timandsuzidickey9358]

well done. Thanks. !!

[@colinmartin2921]

I cannot imagine the effect of laying out in No-Man's Land with a serious wound, and a dead medic laying on top of him all day must have had on Monty; he must have been seriously damaged mentally.

[@philipmarsden7104]

Monty was a genius. Anyone else in human history with his tactlessness could never have remained alive more than a few minutes, but he did! No colleague of his could ever have been criticised had they shot him in anger.

[@dovetonsturdee7033]

I wouldn't go so far as to describe Montgomery as a 'genius.' Certainly not at the level of Marlborough, but I have never understand why commentators, predominantly American, constantly insult him for his cautious approach. Had I been on the front line at, for example, Second Alamein (as my father was), I would have been reassured by a General who made sure of his superiority in intelligence, numbers, equipment, and logistics before beginning a battle. I appreciate that, of course, this doesn't look quite so exciting in a movie.

[@Bullet-Tooth-Tony-]

@@dovetonsturdee7033 I'd say Monty was good at Strategy, Logistics and Operations. For Tactics and Manuever, the best British generals at that level were Marlborough, Wellington, Slim, O'Connor, McCreery.

[@lauriepocock3066]

I don't think that Monty had any choice over Arnhaim, I think that the decision to go came from Washington due to the first V2 attack. I know there is little evidence to back up my theory but Washington expected the Germans to mount, if not an atomic warhead, then a dirty warhead. Interestingly, none of the American generals blame Monty for its failure, they fall out later when Monty speaks to the press.

[@alistairhackney]

Uploaded 11 minutes ago and already two _bot_ comments.

[@peterpluim7912]

Waiting for the American armchair generals to arrive to explain to a former Chief of Defense Staff how wrong he is in his assessment of Montgomery.

[@nickdanger3802]

Bernard Law Montgomery - Military History - Oxford Bibliographies "The National Army Museum conducted a poll in 2011 to determine Britain’s greatest general. Montgomery’s name was not among the finalists."

[@66kbm]

The Title is in itself deceptive. Others below him, with both their experience or inexperience in warfare, may well have influenced the resulting opinion by either actions or inaction that he endorsed that were never executed.

[@colingibson7324]

Continuation: Dorman-Smith was effectively airbrushed out of history, possibly because, at Sandhurst, he was heard to say, “Montgomery takes a sledgehammer to crack a nut”.

[@dovetonsturdee7033]

Really? At Sandhurst? When did he, allegedly, say that?

[@colingibson7324]

@ I think I read it in Dorman-Smith’s biography (possibly called “Chink”). Is there reason to doubt it? When Churchill published Montgomery’s assessment of the Auchinlek-Dorman-Smith team, Dorman Smith successfully sued him (Churchill) for libel. Part of Monty’s mission to claim all credit for himself was to discredit others, often quite unfairly. However, Monty was loved by his men, which Dorman-Smith, being less of a showman, never was.

[@dovetonsturdee7033]

@@colingibson7324 As far as I know, he was never at Sandhurst during the Montgomery ascendancy.

[@colingibson7324]

@ Possibly Montgomery was at Sandhurst on different occasions. Maybe it was said somewhere else, but it seems to me entirely believable that ‘Chink’ disparaged ‘Monty’ in this way, and that he suffered the consequences.

[@johnpeate4544]

Dorman-Smith’s battalion commanders refused to serve under him in Italy and he was declared unfit for brigade command. _He really was as near being a lunatic as you can get,’_ Major-General Oswald, another staff officer at divisional and then army level at the time, remarked.

[@Mahros1]

Did Montgomery have a good chiefs of staff? I tend to think of later armies requiring a leader and a manager, such as Napoleon and Berthier or Hindenburg and Ludendorff. Did Monty just do everything or was there a subordinate he relied on?

[@Bloodnok49]

His Chief of Staff was Major-General Sir Francis De Guingand from 1942- 1945, who was generally acknowledged to be highly competent and liked by the US Generals.

[@Mahros1]

@@Bloodnok49 Interesting - thanks!

[@tombrunila2695]

At about 8:55 "Put Sir in and you can say anything" ...

[@MrAB-xc9du]

A glorious past of British empire however Hitler tried to change the geopolitical landscape. Historical facts. Azeem Baloch

[@richmorg8196]

What about Market Garden a Bridge too Far

[@johndawes9337]

what about it?

[@Idahoguy10157]

Monty lacked even an ounce of humility

[@bigwoody4704]

or ability he got many men killed and didn't GAF.

[@Bullet-Tooth-Tony-]

@@bigwoody4704 Got many men killed? Woody slow down for a second, please just examine his casualties compared to his opponents below.... In his first performance at Dunkirk, his handling of the 3rd Infantry division during the retreat was outstanding. By the end of the campaign he had got his division back to Britain in such good order, that it was the only division from the BEF to be considered fully combat effective immediately after Dunkirk. At Alam El Halfa, his Eighth Army took 1,700 casualties, the Afrika Corps had 2,900. At 2nd El Alamein, his Eighth Army took 13,000 casualties, the Afrika Corps had 73,000. At Medinine his Eighth Army lost 130 men, the Afrika Corps lost 635. At the Mareth Line, once again his Eighth Army took less losses than the Africa Korps with 4,000 casualties compared to 7,000. In France during the Battle of Caen the British 2nd Army and 1st Canadian Army took around 50,000 casualties, the Germans took around 158,000. In Operation Veritable, his 21st Army Group took 15,000 casualties, the Germans 44,000 casualties. In the crossing of the Rhine in Operation Plunder his 21st Army Group took 6,700 casualties the Germans 16,000 casualties. In Market Garden the Allies suffered 17,000 casualties, the Germans 30,000 casualties.

[@johndawes9337]

@@bigwoody4704 you describe patton too a tee Boy

[@dovetonsturdee7033]

@@Bullet-Tooth-Tony- I fear you are wasting you time. Woody is a Montgomery obsessive.

[@bigwoody4704]

funny I just respond to all the same slappies blowing bernard's horn - If I'm obssessed it's with the truth, that your creeps with crown certainly don't want told

[@michaeljohnseanpatrickturn9955]

Monty,????? Slim he was the real deal, not Monty

[@thevillaaston7811]

You know this because?

[@bigwoody4704]

because he much smarter and better read than you lil' villa

[@johnpeate4544]

Monty could have done what Slim did. I don’t think Slim could have done what Monty did.

[@Bullet-Tooth-Tony-]

@@johnpeate4544 I wouldn't be so sure of that John, Slim was quite the imaginative commander. Operation Extended capital shows this. He also installed the German "Mission Command" doctrine into his 14th Army, he would have done something similar with 21st Army Group in France I think. Slim drafted a one-page memorandum to guide his unit's training which mentions "There should rarely be frontal attacks and never frontal attacks on narrow fronts. Attacks should follow hooks and come in from flank or rear, while pressure holds the enemy front." As well as emphasises the use of Infantry and tanks to recon enemy positions "Tanks can be used in almost any country except swamp. In close country they must always have infantry with them to defend and reconnoiter for them." He probably would have got behind Caen somehow.

[@johnpeate4544]

@ If he was imaginative it clearly wasn’t in the field of strategy. In the first Burma campaign, the Japanese, having taken Rangoon, had two lines of advance into Upper Burma: the valleys of the Irrawaddy and Sittang Rivers. The former was blocked by Slim’s Burma Corps and the latter by two Chinese formations called ‘armies’, but each only equal to a British corps in manpower and vastly weaker in equipment, transport and supporting units. In addition, Slim faced only one Japanese division while the Chinese were confronted with three. Since the Chinese understandably proved unable to hold their ground, Slim’s left flank was continually open to attack. Yet Major General James Lunt in A Hell of a Licking reports that Slim declared his ‘intention to recapture Rangoon before the monsoon broke in mid-May’. Slim’s memoirs discreetly omit this, but do confirm his constant desire to counter-attack. He never seems to have realized that the further south his counter-attacks progressed, the more chance there was of his men being cut off when his left flank gave way, and the more men who took part, the more were endangered. Slim showed little more strategic imagination at later times. By the end of 1944, the massive Japanese defeats at Kohima and Imphal had been followed by still greater ones elsewhere, notably in October 1944 the titanic Battle of Leyte Gulf. In this the Japanese fleet was eliminated, ensuring their loss of the Philippines and the natural resources for which they had gone to war in the first place. After this, their army in Burma could not be strengthened but lost troops who were sent to the Pacific. In these circumstances, the strategy of Slim and the theatre’s Supreme Commander, Mountbatten, was very limited: that of ‘reaching Mandalay before the monsoon’. It was Leese, after his arrival as Commander-in-Chief, Land Forces in November 1944, who urged the much more daring and successful strategy of taking Rangoon as well. As he would write to his wife, ‘When I first came out here it was never even thought of.’ Slim never acknowledged Leese’s action”

[@colingibson7324]

Question: how much credit for the planning of Alam el Halfa should be given to the reviled and abrasive Colonel (?) Eric Dorman-Smith, working together with Auchinleck?

[@thevillaaston7811]

'Question: how much credit for the planning of Alam el Halfa should be given to the reviled and abrasive Colonel (?) Eric Dorman-Smith, working together with Auchinleck?' Who can say?.. THE MEMOIRS OF FIELD-MARSHAL EARL ALEXANDER OF TUNIS CASSELL, LONDON 1962 P22 ‘Recently there has been discussion whether or not General Montgomery ‘adopted’ as his own the plan evolved by his predecessor for the action that was shortly to be fought - actually within a little more than a fortnight of his taking over command - in defence of the Alamein position. I cannot conceive that General Montgomery is likely to have been interested in other people’s ideas on how to run the desert war; and in my own conversation with General Auchinleck, before taking over command, there was certainly no hint of a defensive plan that at all resembled the pattern of the battle of Alam Halfa as it was actually fought. …as I have already indicated, the actual pattern of the battle was exclusively Montgomery’s.’

[@Bloodnok49]

Major General, not Colonel.

[@johnpeate4544]

Very little

[@dovetonsturdee7033]

@@johnpeate4544 Actually, compare The Auk's outline for what became Alam Halfa, and the actual battle, and there are considerable similarities.

[@johnpeate4544]

@@dovetonsturdee7033 No, not really. There was little done to fortify Alam Halfa Ridge, no mention of laying a minefield, no mention of the armour attacking Rommel’s suppply units, no proper co-operation with the Desrt Air Force and lots of talk of battle groups, tactical withdrawals and the battle becoming _’fluid and mobile.’_

[@HEXiT_]

my granpa served under him in north africa.. lets just say he wasnt a fan.

[@BRIANJAMESGIBB]

< 4

[@MikeHarland-m2g]

Bouica. There is no hard factual evidence that this queen existed. Monty good in the desert but a disaster when he left the desert.

[@enright13]

Rubbish! He won more, more significant battles against more of the enemy than ANY other Allied commander in the ETO, without ever losing a single one (despite what certain Hollywood movies might make you believe).

[@TechnikMeister2]

A careful study of the verified historical record, shows that Churchills faith in Montgomery was misplaced and it shows that it was not Montgomery who defeated Rommel, but the Australian and New Zealanders. Misreporting of this led to the Australian PM withdrawing all their troops from North Africa. On D Day Montgomery also fluffed it with his mismanagement of the British advance towards Caen which he failed to take for a month. Patton wheeled around him and the Germans retreated. Then operation Market Garden was a complete disaster, and only 1500 troops of the 1st Airborne survived at of 12,000. Eisenhower thereafter sidelined him and never trusted him again.

[@Bullet-Tooth-Tony-]

@TechnikMeister2 "Patton wheeled around him and the Germans retreated.:" They only retreated because the Germans had no reserves to hold Patton back because the British and Canadians were busy tying down between 7-8 German Panzer divisions with over 600 tanks. Caen was taken on July 19th. And he wasn't sidelined either, as he took command of Operation Plunder the Rhine crossings as well as 2 US armies in the Battle of the Bulge.

[@thevillaaston7811]

@@Bullet-Tooth-Tony- Patton's Third Army was not even operational until August of 1944.

[@thevillaaston7811]

'A careful study of the verified historical record, shows that Churchills faith in Montgomery was misplaced and it shows that it was not Montgomery who defeated Rommel, but the Australian and New Zealanders.' Alamein: One Australian Division One Indian Division One New Zealand Division One South African Division Seven British Divisions

[@peterwebb8732]

I am Australian and - if anything - possibly a little biased toward giving credit to our own troops. However, to give them the credit for winning an entire battle on their own, without regard to the other troops , or the commander who put them in the right place, at the right time, with the right commands to get the job done, is more than a little “too much”. As for Caen…. Hammering your enemy on one part of the battlefield until he becomes fixated on that sector and allocates all his reserves to it - thereby weakening his forces for your breakthrough attack - is a classic piece of military strategy that goes back as for as Alexander the Great. To make this work, the objective has to be important to the enemy, and your attack has to be heavy enough to convince him that this is your main thrust. Patton’s breakthrough was made possible by Montgomery’s repeated attacks in the Caen sector, and everything we know about Montgomery says that this was deliberate.

[@bigwoody4704]

slappies you are be kept in a state of ignorance and told nonsense. Bernard was an ankle biter passing himself off as a head hunter and in fact a impediment to the war effort, a prolific braggart, a ponderous foot dragger, a malevolent drag on AMERICAN supplies. No different than MacArthur ,he would have been sacked by the Wehrmacht/Americans and shot by the Russians Monty was what he was, a fraud left in place to placate the British - he couldn't direct mice in amaze. They could have put anyone there and got the same results after 41. They were all answering to the US.

[@whya2ndaccount]

No thanks. I wasted 30 mins on Wellington.

[@NeuroDeviant421]

“Unbeatable”? Tell that to 1st Para.

[@dovetonsturdee7033]

Perhaps you might read an actual, authoritive, account of Market Garden, rather than basing your opinion on a seriously flawed movie, itself based on a book by a well-meaning journalist?

[@enright13]

Montgomery was in charge of 21st Army Group! 1st Para was part of First Allied Airborne Army which came under the command of Brereton.

[@dovetonsturdee7033]

@@enright13 Montgomery had been involved in an earlier, smaller scale plan, Operation Comet, which was cancelled in favour of Brereton's Market Garden.

[@enright13]

@@dovetonsturdee7033 his involvement was limited to pretty much the idea and broad outline. His 21st AG did very little wrong. It was the airborne op that failed, and that was mainly due to the Yanks.

[@Relo67]

Montgomery = El Alamein but - Operation Market Garden

[@johndawes9337]

MG was Ike and planned by Brereton and Williams

[@mikeainsworth4504]

@@johndawes9337the only part of MG planned by Brereton and Williams was the airlift, and subsequent resupply by air, of 1st Airborne Corps (MARKET) under the Operational Control of 21st Army Group. They had nothing to do with the planning of the 2nd Army’s advance (GARDEN) which was the Main Effort of MG; moreover, as soon as 1st Airborne Corps landed in came under command of the 2nd Army’. MG as a whole was proposed by 21st Army Group, approved by Eisenhower, then commanded by 21st Army Group. I’m not sure where this position on Monty originated from; it would, it would probably come as a surprise to him. He refers to ‘my plan’ for MG in his memoirs and the operation forms part of the 21st Army Group’s scheme of manoeuvre outlined in his Operational Directive M525 dated 14th September 1944. He elaborates on this in his book ‘21 Army Group: Normandy to the Baltic’ where he writes: ‘My intention now was to establish bridgeheads over the Meuse and the Rhine in readiness for the time when we could advance eastwards to occupy the Ruhr. I ordered Second Army to secure crossings over the river obstacles in the general area Graves-Nijmegen-Arnhem. I had decided upon this thrust line after a detailed study of the possible routes in the 21 Army Group sector.’

[@BRIANJAMESGIBB]

!?°¿!? . "speak truth to powe.." . . . . .

[@rioamazoco]

Montgomery? Wasn't that the guy who always finished second behind Patton?

[@Bullet-Tooth-Tony-]

@rioamazoco Montgomery was the PLANNER of Operation Overlord and Ground Forces Commander of all allied landing forces, Patton was just a minion following his orders from Monty.

[@rioamazoco]

@@Bullet-Tooth-Tony- You should have learned your history lesson better. Patton never served under Monty. He served under Anderson in Tunisia, under Alexander in Sicily and under Bradley in France and Germany.

[@Bullet-Tooth-Tony-]

@@rioamazoco Nope, he was under 21st Army Group in August 1944 ( which Monty commanded from June, July, August to September as Ground Forces Commander of Operation Overlord) The senior chain of command in Normandy was like this, Dempsey and Bradley were the Army commanders who took their orders from Monty the Army group commander, who took his orders from Eisenhower, the Supreme Allied commander. Monty was Pattons boss.

[@thevillaaston7811]

Montgomery wasn't the guy who always finished second behind Patton.

[@thevillaaston7811]

@@Bullet-Tooth-Tony- Patton? Deserted the battlefield during HUSKY for headlines in in the unimpotant Palermo? He then went on to physically assault Sicilian peasants, and some of his own soldiers, and thus got himself passed over for army group command? He was sidelined until the outcome of OVERLORD was no longer in doubt, and then raced through hot air across the undefended part of France, and then made a muck of the Lorraine campaign? He then raced towards Bastogne at about one mile per day, and arrived there after the German advance Westwards had been stopped. He finished the war by instigating Task Force Baum, to rescuse his son-in-law about six before the end of the war, at a cost of 288 casualties? What a CV?.. And this from a bloke who was only in the war past the point where the Grmans could no longer win, and with the German army irretrievably commited in Russia, and with that army being increasing short of manpower, supplies, and modern equipment.