Heavy Machine Guns of the Great War

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I have been really enjoying The Great War series, so I figured I ought to take advantage of an opportunity to look at several WWI heavy machine guns side by side. This is a video to give some historical context to the guns, and not a technical breakdown of exactly how they work (that will come later). These really were the epitome of industrialized warfare, and they wrought horrendous destruction on armies of the Great War.
The guns covered here are the German MG08, British Vickers, and French Hotchkiss 1914.
Other heavies used in the war include the Austrian Schwarzlose 1907/12, the Russian 1905 and 1910 Maxims, the Italian Fiat-Revelli, and the American Browning 1895. The book I was quoting from towards the end was Dolf Goldsmith's unmatched work on the Maxim, The Devil's Paintbrush.

[@daveanderson620]

My grandfather was the gunner on a Hotchkiss machine gun crew in WW1. He told me they had a three-man crew, a loader, a gunner and a jam extractor. Of course, I assume each carried a part of the gun set. He was wounded twice, once by a hand grenade and again by a rifle shot. He was my hero and lived till 1966.

[@skibooski6884]

Glad he made it out of the war

[@roybatty1972]

My grandfather too, but during WW2

[@jozzerful2]

Same here Dave so of the machine guns got so hot that they would have to piss on them apparently I know some of them had water flow through Them,

[@kitten-rl4ed]

How old are you?

[@broitsmikey]

Living through both world wars AND seeing Vietnam is fucking insane! Big props to your paw!

[@swarm9582]

"You are all dead, Sir!" "NUH UH! I AM NOT! GO BACK TO THE BARRACKS, YOU CHEATED!"

[@RaidsEpicly]

I guess the alternative would have been hard to swallow too though "Huh...I guess we are. Well pack it in boys, I guess cavalry is useless now"

[@dinamosflams]

@@RaidsEpicly "welp, guess the strongest command in the millitary force of the most powerful Nations in the world is literally useless now. ladidah"

[@uteriel282]

@@RaidsEpicly that tone changed quite fast once the first weak of trench war was over with 60k dead french soldiers gunned down by german mg´s.

[@Balmung60]

Big Millennium Challenge energy Though in that case, OpFor actually did cheat, but still the complete disregard for anything that might be worth taking into account and the response of fully rejecting all of it and railroading round 2 still comes across as having the same mindset.

[@Balmung60]

@@RaidsEpicly The funny thing is, that wouldn't really be right either - even in WWII, cavalry had (niche) uses and even the classic cavalry charge would be employed effectively (as it turns out, soldiers who aren't drilled on anti-cavalry tactics are not very good at stopping cavalry). But it would be closer to right than just ignoring the new technology like that.

[@Cecil97]

"Never have I seen a lack of cavalry spirit more blatantly displayed!" "Respectfully sir, the cavalry spirit matters little when you are all turned into spirits of dead men!"

[@Yvain-fn7ao]

True this, he should've said this back haha. Probably gonna earn him even more detention time though.

[@ryanlowry5409]

Wow you're really stupid, oh, and a bozo

[@doctor-atuti]

@@ryanlowry5409 Well you are clearly American... If you are not, you should consider becoming one

[@sandtrap175]

@@doctor-atuti we don't want him, give em to the canadians

[@somewhereelse1235]

@@sandtrap175 The Canadians are too nice to accept him. Asides from those in Quebec. They're spiteful enough to where he would fit right on in.

[@anzaca1]

9:42 There's one documented case involving the British 100th Company of the Machine Gun Corps, which in August 1916, fired its ten Vickers guns for 12 hours solid. They went through 100 barrels, and fired over a million rounds without any mechanical issues. The example referenced in this video was conducted in 1963 at Strensall Barracks, where a single Vickers fired over 5 million rounds, and was still fully functional at the end. So when anyone tells you the AK-47 is the toughest gun ever built, you can just laugh at their ignorance.

[@a.t6066]

You stick a water jacket on a AK and it will outlast the vickers

[@nichevo1]

@@a.t6066 what are you waiting for?

[@a.t6066]

@@nichevo1 to have an extra $50k lying around...

[@ortuignis3782]

I've never seen someone compare an AK-47 and a Vickers, while attaching themselves emotionally to either. New experiences

[@acceleration4443]

Wow the water cooled, barrel exchanged heavy duty machine gun beat an infantry rifle? Crazy

[@TheGreatWar]

Thanks for the shout out, Ian! Means a lot to us and what we just learned about heavy machine guns helped us already.

[@ForgottenWeapons]

The Great War Glad to help!

[@TheRipler]

The Great War You should see if you can get Forgotten Weapons to do one on artillery. :)

[@RockIslandAuctionCompany]

TheRipler If we get some in, he'd be the first to know!

[@ForgottenWeapons]

Rock Island Auction Company I do have a video coming shortly on the Mauser 1918 Tank Gewehr - it's almost artillery. :)

[@Egezu]

Forgotten Weapons Oooo! Really looking forward for that, I just love the looks of the gun!

[@TotallyNotAFox]

Funny side note: We germans have the term "0-8-15" - meaning something boring or ordinary. This originated from the MG08/15 as the operating training took a long time and was repetitive, while the meaning of ordinary for the term came from the fact that it was the first standardized gun across all german forces. This lead to the DIN (German industry norms), as the taper pin had to be manufactured precisely the same to fit in all guns

[@D3LTA48]

General: "Nooo! You can't dismantle years of military tradition and valor!" Edward: "Haha! Machine gun go Brrrrrr!"

[@adanzavala4801]

NOOOOOOO YOU CAN'T JUST DISMANTLE THE DOMINATING FORCE ON A BATTLEFIELD FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS!!!

[@kj_heichou]

Well more like chuck chuck chuck chuck chuck chuck chuck

[@jonathanallard2128]

@@kj_heichou Yeah Maxim's weren't MG42"s

[@soldierbr8726]

@@jonathanallard2128 still quite mortal

[@Mygg_Jeager]

Underrated Comment lol

[@EpsilonBias]

*Ian, surrounded by tons of guns*: "and their access to firearms is, well, not as easy as mine"

[@mrpineapple3942]

Sad

[@marcpomaville9429]

God bless America

[@SIMO-eb1hw]

@@marcpomaville9429 schools would probably disagree

[@R0swell5104]

Yes very limited and we like it that way.

[@R0swell5104]

@@Stevie-J Funny ideas about the world?there's the pot calling the kettle black. Tell me, when have civilian owned weapons been used in an international conflict in the last couple of hundred years. Your civil war doesn't count as you were using them against yourselves.

[@nathanielrincon7907]

"You are all dead, sir." :) I love that line!

[@SomeReallyUniqueName]

+Nathaniel Rincon The movie War Horse has exactly that same result and highlights that outdated concept.

[@nathanielrincon7907]

SomeReallyUniqueName It does indeed.

[@drownsinkoolaid4203]

I'd like to think if he had to send that message in a letter, even in the early 20th century, he'd have included a winking smiley lol

[@WastelandSeven]

Nathaniel Rincon ~ I quite agree. You must give the young man extra credit for being so dashedly polite. It is a true pity that his commander was not so dashedly bright.

[@Retr0Whiskey]

The starting point of this anecdote containing this quote: 17:50 Mainly putting this here for future personal reference, however it occurred to me that others may benefit from this.

[@babakzekibi315]

7 days and nights, it would be a huge pile of ammo

[@EEAMD-co6nw]

+Onur Can Vural , its simply impressive and crazy

[@babakzekibi315]

I cant agree more

[@NarcassiticGamer]

Well at 450 rounds a minute, for 7 days and 7 nights, that makes something like 4.5 million rounds that were ran through the gun, not taking into account any time spent not firing

[@dansneyd4646]

NarcassisticGamer that's a very long belt of ammo! I assume they stopped to reload and top up the water

[@ThePizzaGoblin]

and probably to change gunners

[@skullyairsoft80]

I always heard "Whole 9 yards" was in reference to M2HB belts used by defensive gunners in American bombers during WWII

[@sealpiercing8476]

If 9 yards was a common length for machine gun belts, it's possible the expression originated multiple times

[@Lazyguy22]

Whatever happens, we have got The Maxim Gun, and they have-- bugger.

[@tamlandipper29]

Matilda - I have cast my lethargic eye over this comment and found it good.

[@ZGryphon]

"A pom pom is an excellent weapon when you are using it but a horrid thing when the other chap has got it." - Sgt. P.C. Jonas, 43rd (Suffolk) Company Imperial Yeomanry, on his experience in the 1899-1902 South African (or Second Boer) War; quoted in Stephen M. Miller's _Volunteers on the Veld._ Jonas was talking about the Maxim-Nordenfeld QF 1-pounder autocannon, but the principle is similar; the Second Boer War was British forces' first taste of what a war against an enemy with even approximate technological parity would be like. Unfortunately, it seems Lord Kitchener _et al._ learned few lessons from the experience.

[@TheHaighus]

They learned some pretty big lessons from the Boer War, like the increased focus on musketry skills and other basic soldier skills. But the Boer War was very different to WWI- it was primarily mobile guerilla fighting, against a numerically inferior enemy. Therefore, WWI-era artillery and heavy machine guns were not the type of weapons that perform well- they are too slow to respond to guerilla attacks. British tactics against guerilla fighters to this day are based upon experiences in the Boer War. Most of the combat was small unit actions between light infantry and mounted infantry, so the British improved the quality of their infantry, and upgraded their infantry weapons to match the realities of modern infantry combat. A really key lesson learnt was that the British public health was abysmal, so welfare programs were implemented, and this greatly improved the health of the general population. This may well have been a decisive factor for WWI.

[@fien111]

@@ZGryphon Few will truly enjoy a proto-Mk. 19 being fired at them, I think, regardless of time period.

[@leemichael2154]

@@TheHaighus The Boers taught the British to stop using their ridiculous conspicuous outfits and use camoflauge to make less of a target for the enemy guerrilla tactics,, something the French learned from the attack of the Germans in the early stages of the first world war? You know your history and i appreciate your knowledge my friend

[@nickanderson3499]

For a guy sitting on the floor, I thought this was a very professional and informative video. Thanks!

[@slinkerdeer]

What, do you want all 3 guns on a table with him standing? This is professional "even for standing up". No idea how sitting down would imply the speaker is less professional

[@user-hf9hf6hw8j]

@@slinkerdeer hi I'm your physical therapist. We're going to get you up and standing. now even though that car crash really damaged your legs I feel confident with my help you'll be able to stand again. Know what I'm going to want you to do is try to stand up while I sit on the floor.

[@joestrummer4106]

Dude that’s not even a funny comment that’s just depressing, I’d be so pissed if somebody tried to pull that shit at my therapy

[@mukhumor]

Looks more like he is going to teach you how to smoke a Bong.

[@williambrick2481]

Nick Anderson WILL HE BE MORE PROFESSIONAL IF HE STAND ON A CHAIR?

[@Kanglar]

NCO- "You are all dead, Sir!" Commander- "LOL n00b! GTFO."

[@GlitchDoctor]

ecksdee

[@GlitchDoctor]

@Doge Maverick yikes, what have I done to you?

[@NSluiter]

The Commander was a master of nerf hit calls before nerf was even a thing.

[@glennnewlands1452]

Doge Maverick 🤓

[@cougar2k720]

@HiWetcam he would have to have cart load of cigarettes to offer them first.

[@MrOtis909]

The arrogant romanticism those officers engaged in came to a screeching halt when the reality of trench warfare became known.

[@EidolonSpecus]

The high command of all major powers did read many extensive and detailed accounts of these guns being used before WWI to wipe out peasant and colonial uprisings, to great effect. Because of course our honorable imperial forces would easily wipe out subhuman peasants and ethnics, surely it has nothing to do with more effective armament, but rather with the superiority of our noble men! They didn't fully understand _why_ they were so effective. Once they had firsthand experience of fighthing other rich european peoples, their opinions started to change. When you learn how to fence with a sword, you learn that the arm matters more than the weapon it's holding; but technology is an equalizer of men, it throws a mass-produced industrial wrench into the clear-cut social hierarchy on the field of battle.

[@bingobongo1615]

It stopped before that. On August 22nd the French armies counterattacked Germany according to their offensive pre-war plans. 22.000 french died in a single day to German artillery and machine guns with little German casualties. This broke the French pre-war spirit and led to hastily new directives on how to fight. For Austria it was already the first few days of the failed offensives into Serbia. For Germany it were some of the opening battles and then the battle of gumbinnen almost losing east Prussia due to some hasty overly ambitious frontal attacks.

[@JorgeRodriguez-de6eo]

Vinnisl a *laughs in the somme*

[@KenjiWatanabe1]

08:14 that's an interesting thing to know. here's another nugget of wisdom for anyone who doesn't know it yet: I've heard that German speaking countries have a sort of proverb that stems from the Great War as well. When something is standardized or let's say you express that something is designed to be a carbon copy for easy use you say "that's 0815". for example if you have to use screws on a project and would ask what screws to buy they'd tell you just buy the regular "insert size here" screws, they are "0815" for the furniture you want to build. or another example would be windows since it's the "0815" operating system (what kind of OS do you use? oh just 0815 windows). you can also use the expression in a negative way. that's just 0815 stuff, I want something special! etc. A friend of the family told us that since he's German. He said he didn't even know where he or others got it from but it's stuck as a proverb and only after seeing a documentary about the Great War and finding out the machine guns used were 08/15 Maxims did his light bulbs light up. hahahaha I always found that fascinating. He also told us that to this day the youngest generation is using the expression, most not knowing of it's possible origins. If memory serves me well the actual German is "das ist 0815" (that is 0815) and the 0815's pronounced as zero eight fifteen, not zero eight hundred fifteen or the likes. think of it like "nil eight fifteen", that would be the best equivalent. for whatever it's worth I hope that made someone go "oooh, that's neat" like I did back then or just know with the whole 9 yards. Isn't it fascinating how the Great War shaped us all in more ways than one? ..

[@climbscience4813]

I can confirm everything you said, I am German. Pretty spot on!

[@nehcrum]

You have to remember that the conventional military view of the machine gun before WWI was that it was a light artillery piece. It had a gun crew, it was on a mount and must be properly placed before firing etc. So it was compared to light field artillery, where it wasn't considered all that superior, just a bit different. One also has to keep in mind that the prevailing tactics of the age was actually maneuverability and outflanking your enemy, in which emplaced guns that were hard to move quickly had it's limitations. The only problem was that you couldn't outflank the trenches on the western front, since they were a more or less continous line from the atlantic all the way to Switzerland. Which meant you couldn't defeat emplaced guns by going around them, you had to charge right at them. Which meant extreme losses, because charging right at emplaced light artillery pieces is a bad idea, that is where they really shine. The eastern front was different, with there being larger areas and less men, meaning there wen't continous lines in the same way. This also explains some of the problems of the war and the great slaughter in the trenches. The way to defeat an enemy that is dug-in with emplaced guns is by maneuvering around them. But what happens in "modern" war between industrialized nations with large stores of manpowers and weapons industries capable of supplying an almost endless amount of weaponry and ammunition? All major involved nations could draft huge armies, and at least initially, they seemed to have limitless amounts of manpower and losses in men were considered less important than losses of economic importance (see the british military high commands opinion of helmets for soldiers). WWI was simply way to different from other earlier wars and noone thought it was going to turn out the way it did. They thought it would be like other wars, where you outmaneuvered your enemy, instead of a war where you send large frontal assaults and hope to grind down the enemy....

[@tamlandipper29]

Interesting comment. You might enjoy reading In Pursuit of Military Excellence.

[@cougar2k720]

So basically, do it like a zerg player and send masses until something breaks from never ending wave of soldiers.

[@voornaam3191]

In my highschool years, one of the neighbors was an infantry general. He had been to Egypt for some reason, and he was impressed by Nubian soldiers. Tall and muscular top fit young men, shooting a .50 machine gun, like it were a rifle. They simply shouldered it, aimed and shot it. You do not want to be their target, you'd need serious armor. In my country, that same gun was a group weapon, carried between two soldiers. Just like you said, almost like small artillery. Today the army uses new types of personal weapons, but I guess nobody has such a heavy gun as a personal weapon. Seeing that is shocking, even to a general, who knows a thing or two.

[@warshipsatin8764]

@@voornaam3191 i guess races are different

[@kylehenline3245]

@@voornaam3191 ER you sure it wasn't just a heavy machine gun of some sort. .50 machines guns don't generally have a stock, and while someone could feasibly shoulder it there is no way they are targeting anything more than a general area lol. IDK how strong you are you aren't carrying that gun and enough ammo to make it effective.

[@paulfabrique5055]

Surprise Surprise the French had to be different

[@thomasraahauge5231]

There were quite intelligent thoughts behind their choise. Obviously, their air cooled gun was not flawles, but worked remarkably well. And of course the French had to be different. They had wastly different war experiences than the Germans and British. They lost the 1870-71 war, mainly due to poor means of communication and were more than anxious about being run over again. So, of course their military doctrines were different. Britain was by far the most different great power. An empire twice as great at the second largest empire before them (the Mongols under Djengis Khan) held together by the largest navy the world had ever seen. Apart from serving as colonial suppressors, the British Army had little to do, other than leave the main defence of the British Isles to the navy. But hey. Let's play another round of bash-the-french-because-they-lost-the-wrong-war.

[@mpow3r972]

I don't think anyone is bashing the French because they "lost the wrong war". I think you're reading a little too much into his comment, and frankly I don't blame you, because there's a fair amount of French bashers in KZbin firearms content comment sections. It can be easy to get jaded and annoyed by all of it. I think he's just noting that the French seemed to have a tendency to choose weapons platforms that were a little and sometimes vastly different than most of their counterparts. I could be wrong, and that could have been his reasoning behind it, but taken on the substance of the comment alone, I don't see it that way...

[@thomasraahauge5231]

I may have over-analyzed or over-interpreted your message. I apollogize.

[@mpow3r972]

I'm sure he won't notice ;) It was two years ago. Props to you for doing so though. Always nice to find reasonable people in a seemingly unreasonable world. Hope you're having a great new year Thomas!

[@thomasraahauge5231]

I try to be reasonable. I fail from time to time (especially according to my daughter :-D ). And a happy new year to you :)

[@kohinarec6580]

Ian, We met in Finland a fee years ago at a meet & greet in Varusteleka. I just wanted to tell you that Forgotten Weapons and InRange are informative and interesting even to a pacifist history-geek like me. You give insight to development, personal histories and all the strange characters behind these machines and the larger context of firearms history and their connections to other inventions, developments and discoveries. You and Karl really do interesting history content without that annouing and terrifying gung-ho bullcrap that often blemishes firearms channels.

[@dak4465]

When you think about how the salary of an infantry man in ww2 was $10,000 a year. And when you think about how that was in 1944, getting paid $20,000 a year in the late 1800s is really really good money for not doing anything

[@jasondouthit4490]

Almost $500,000

[@nyyotam4057]

Too bad Maxim couldn't just take the money and live the easy life.. Like he should have had: So many ppl died by his contraptions.

[@asianman3455]

@@nyyotam4057 so?

[@federicoguinand9451]

@@nyyotam4057 then someone else would have designed something similar to fill the demand, only probably less influential and not as well engineered as the Maxim gun is.

[@budlewis721]

They made the equivalent of $150,000 a year? An infantry man? I don't think so. They made $50 a month, or $745 a month today - still pretty crappy pay. The interweb is at your disposal; you might want to think about using it.

[@amandahammond2691]

I'm kind of amazed that the Hotchkiss 1914 and MG08 went for what they did. That Hotchkiss is actually generally within the available range of machine guns for most of the general populace, which is rather fascinating to me.

[@Corristo89]

The ignorance with which the high command regarded the machine gun is truly baffling, especially with the French, who sent their men dressed in bright uniforms into prepared German lines lined with machine guns. The French were butchered, just like the British when they walked straight into German fire during the first hours of the Battle of the Somme. The machine gun and artillery were the true menace of WW1, although poison gas strangely takes the cake when it comes to the horrors of war. If you weren't blown up or torn to shreds trying to cross No Man's Land, then a bullet would most likely find you, since the air was just buzzing with them. The large scale implementation of the machine gun essentially made sure that WW1 would quickly bog down into a war of attrition if one side adopted a defensive strategy. The Germans did just that when they were beaten back at the Battle of the Marne and decided to dig in along the western front and install massive numbers of machine guns. The rest of the war was spent and largely wasted by trying to win by sending in more men or finding some invention to overcome the trenches and machine gun fire. The British succeeded by using the tank, which could repell machine gun fire.

[@TheRogueWolf]

A big part of the problem, just as in the story Ian relates, was that a lot of those commanders still regarded war as a form of sport, where God was with the brave and righteous, and the battle was meant to be won with chivalry and flare so that dashing young lads could go home and impress pretty girls with war stories. The machine gun made war a whole lot more unsportsmanlike; a lot more of those dashing young lads were going home in pieces, and when six hundred rounds per minute are coming at you while you dash towards that next trench, God is usually nowhere to be found. And the commanders, themselves far removed from the front lines, took much too long to realize that.

[@neutronalchemist3241]

It's never black and wite. The French were dressed in bright uniforms, but were the first that tried to even the playing field, equipping their soldiers en masse with portable automatic fire, in the form of the Chauchat.

[@happyflygon8096]

Something ironic, according to tales of the gun, the maxim gun didn't fire flat 600 rounds, but actually 666 RPM. So god truly did not exist during and after WW1, at least in wars.

[@Catubrannos]

It's fair to say that the true menace in WWI were the generals who wanted to wage war the same way they fought in their youth.

[@dernwine]

Hindsight is truly 20/20. To us, today, growing up in a world of fire and manoeuvre, of automatic weapons, where standing up in the open has meant near certain death in warfare for over 100 years, the military mind-set in 1914 is unbelievable. But in 1914 this is what the military mind-set had been... well... forever. We're literally talking about traditions and techniques that had worked since the beginning of recorded history and now suddenly, they didn't. And too be fair Machine guns where really only part of the problem, the biggest killer by far, and the one that had advanced most since the Franco-Prussian wars was Artillery, which had become truly murderous. And then when you begin to bring in issues with command and control, co-ordination, and just working out how to train your troops... you understand what a monumental learning task commanders at all levels had in 1914-1918. As for bright colours, the Germans had only adopted Feldgrau in 1907 (it was so recent that when Paul von Hindenburg was brought to the Eastern Front he only had a Prussian Blue uniform), the British, the earliest adopters of camouflage, had only made Khaki the army's colour in 1902. The idea that your troops should *not* be easily visible was super high tech at the time. So again you have a high command that is forced to choose between a tried and tested uniform style that has worked since uniforms where invented, or this risky new drab uniform the British are introducing which might hinder command and control, and deplete the men's courage (why would they have confidence to fight the enemy if their uniform is designed to hide them from the enemy?). Now of course their thinking was wrong, and 100 years on it's clearly so painfully wrong that everyone can't believe it, but at the time they didn't know that. And nobody would *really* know until that moment when two European armies clashed for the first time in 40 years in 1914. And once the French had found out to their cost that the bright uniform idea was wrong they changed them rather quickly to be fair. I'd also add that in the Battle of the Somme the British army that got butchered was very very green (the British Army at the beginning of the war was *tiny* only about 70,000men, and had to be built up with people who'd never served a day in their life prior to 1915 (compared to the French and Germans who made everyone do some military service at some point in their lives)), part of the reason they where ordered to walk was because a lot of commanders where afraid that if they let their troops run they'd run, and run, and run, and there would be no way to control anyone, and then everyone would die. One last side note, as the war went on people learned to take trenches, still with heavy casualties, but they learned how to take them, the problem was that 1) once you'd taken a trench it was almost impossible to co-ordinate a breakout and destroy the enemy, or force them to retreat due to the lack of modern technology (there are lots of battles in WWI that start out really promising and then go to shit once the rehearsed and planned opening is done and everyone has to work out where everyone else is and think on the fly). 2) Okay you can take an enemy trench, but then the enemy artillery will know exactly where you are and will ruin your day, all your defences are now pointing in the wrong direction, communications and reinforcements have to cross what was no mans land, and the enemy can bring reinforcements your way very easily by railway. Chances are you are going to loose that trench you took in the next couple days.

[@Ocker3]

I appreciate that you talk about how cool the tech is, while taking care to note how brutally efficient they were at mowing down enemy soldiers.

[@thedirty530]

That's so awesome....I could never have imagined what an experience following The Great War has been... this channel along with everyone collaborating have done something truly remarkable!

[@willmyersw511]

didnt the british boil the water in the vickers to make tea

[@robertkubrick3738]

+Will Myersw It doesn't precisely have to be water. If you run out of water you will use urine. You want a cuppa?

[@Grouuumpf]

well you can always ask the company to piss in buckets and bring it to the MG, but yeah I doubt they had to go that far very often, if at all. Especially on the european fronts, where water usually isn't so hard to supply in quantity (looking at you, Passchendaele)

[@MrReded69]

Loïc Rebts Actually as the classic WW1 comic Charley's War pointed out via the legendary character Machine Gunner Smith 70, you can't just pour any water from a puddle (or the mini-lakes)the rains of Passchendaele produced. There was so much mud in the water that if you filled a gun's water jacket, a few bursts would solidify it into a clay that (like a clay oven)would overheat the barrel quickly. Leaving you with an even more overheated gun. The main virtue of the over heavy Hotchkiss and the not quite perfect Colt-Browning 1914 was that their air cooling systems could handle all but the most extreme firing. The American H.W. McBride's bio on his service with the Canadian army gives a good example of that(the early Canadian army were equipped with Colts)and there is an awesome account of a pair of Hotchkisses at the battle of Verdun. All done without large use of water.

[@Grouuumpf]

MrReded69 yeah, I wasn't really thinking of pouring muddy water directly in it, just that when the ground is that soaked, wells are never empty nor rare. Could have phrased that better. Has for using whatever is availlable, I like russian and finnish maxims, with the big cap to pour snow directly in the jacket.

[@MrReded69]

Loïc Rebts Actually in the blasted battlefield landscapes, intact wells can get kinda rare. Not to mention favorite targets for artillery spotters and snipers.

[@patricktakada9551]

4:41 "two men can easily carry on it's mount" "Easily"--yeah right lol

[@farmerboy916]

I get that it's bulky, but at the weights Ian gave I could carry it by myself; not very easily, but it would be more than fine with someone else helping. I don't consider myself particularly strong, either. Consider that most of the soldiers were strong young men who had probably grown up on a farm (especially considering the german demand for politically reliable soldiers) or doing other manual labor.

[@patricktakada9551]

farmerboy916 I could carry it too, on flat, even ground. But even with two dudes moving that through the trenches would be so terrible.

[@RockIslandAuctionCompany]

Patrick Takada Can confirm. It wasn't easy moving just the short distance for this video, so I can't imagine moving it through the conditions that would've existed for a WWI soldier in the Great War.

[@patricktakada9551]

Rock Island Auction Company Yeah I don't doubt that. How much do you expect/hope it will be sold for? I've never seen one with the armor, at least that I can remember.

[@RockIslandAuctionCompany]

Patrick Takada It's estimated at $7,500 - $13,000.

[@DukeOfTwist]

My Grandfather was an AIF machine Gunner (Vickers) in 1918 at Villers Bretonneux on the Somme. Villers-Bretonneux was cleared of enemy troops on 25 April 1918, the third anniversary of the Anzac landing at Gallipoli. This action marked the effective end of the German offensive that had commenced so successfully more than a month earlier. He stayed on for several months on Graves Duty to help bury thousands of soldiers from both sides. He returned home with several mementoes, one being the firing mechanism from his beloved vickers.

[@Valkyrie1166]

Ian looks like he could be part of Sabaton in this video. Kinda fitting

[@gonzalesrafael22]

Video was suggested in my feed. Probably because im a bit of a history nerd who follows the Great War religiously. But this guy is amazing. love the knowledge he is dishing. I knew a lot of this info, but there is definitely some good gems in here. And the delivery is top class. Look forward to more videos from you.

[@ForgottenWeapons]

Rafael Gonzales Thanks!

[@gonzalesrafael22]

thank you Forgotten Weapons - quality stuff.

[@MrReded69]

I always find it odd that the French were so concerned about canvas ammunition belts vulnerability to moisture when most of their fighting before WW1 was done in their North African colonies. I just can't picture a French Colonial soldier, humping one of these guns in the desert, looking up and saying "Mon dieu! I hope it doesn't rain!".

[@Morrigi192]

MrReded69 It could have been some enterprising officer who threw water on the gun to see what would happen when they were testing it. Either that, or perhaps it began to rain during one of the French tests of the Maxim.

[@MrReded69]

***** yeah well, while its true canvas belts are vulnerable to moisture I notice all the rain on the Western Front never stopped the Maxim guns from mowing down Allied troops like grass when needed.

[@MrReded69]

Soren G Then they should have begun making the Portative (light) M1909 Hotchkiss the standard gun before WW1.

[@shawngilliland243]

Dry rot of canvas could pose serious problems in the Sahara.

[@EidolonSpecus]

The French Empire always prioritized useage on their home turf, because their expeditionary forces are always just "temporarily mobilized". They didn't really care about losing colonies, so long as they could always call their troops back in a pinch to secure the motherland. This is how New France became British, the French reinforcements that were promised to Quebec never came. A single fleet and regiment of French men was deemed more valuable than half of North-American land, so they gladly gave the land to keep the men.

[@beez1717]

It's insane how effective these weapons were! It was literally like the Touhou project bullet hell video games but you couldn't see the bullets, and by the time you heard them, they had already passed you. If things were set up right, you could potentially not leave a gap wide enough for a person to fit through once they got close enough.

[@philjerome9795]

An old friend of mine had a father who owned a gun store in NYC many years ago. Maxim 08's were fairly common in VFW halls, and he would often be called to get rid of them. I would listen to his stories about the amazing stuff that veterans would try to sell him at his store.

[@loetzfan]

19 people clicked on this video to see heavy machine guns explained perfectly then decided they didn't like that.

[@FoosaStomp]

They were just upset that they cant sit cross-legged like this guy.

[@generalbuttnaked102]

clearly 19 cavalry men

[@Molluscful]

180 now (17/06/2019).

[@BeKindToBirds]

It is people accidentally pressing the button on their phones

[@limpetarch98k]

They are all dead, sir!

[@Zamolxes77]

"You're all dead, Sir" "Whaaaa ... Get off your horse !" "I am off my horse, Sir, but you are still dead ! "

[@mike393000]

Just watched this over my morning caffeine. Very informative and I enjoyed the perspective you put it in with the people of that time. You are a very good speaker and educator and I always enjoy your channel. I realize this is a 4-5 year old video but wanted you to know these are great resources! Thank you!

[@demoneyesrakka]

I'll have you know, this video has led me to now marathon the entire "Great War" series. So good!

[@glendalinaziemba6741]

In watching a WWI doc, I noticed the Japanese military using machine guns that look like the French air-cooled guns you display in your video. Did the French provide Imperial Japan with weapons during this time? Just a curiosity, I guess.

[@ForgottenWeapons]

+Glendalina Ziemba The Japanese bought Hotchkiss guns, and over time adapted the design to domestic production. Check out my video on the Type 92 Heavy MG for an example.

[@glendalinaziemba6741]

+Forgotten Weapons Thank you so much for your reply. I liked your video very much.... watched the whole thing, though not much into guns. I am becoming a Student of the WWI and this helps me understand some things. I am just trying to piece some things together. I do watch Indy's "the Great War" on a weekly basis. I will watch more of your videos. Thanks again.

[@ConcernedCitizen627]

Thank you for the history lesson. I always enjoy your videos. They are always very informative and professional.

[@DylanDiMiG]

Donald Eaton couldn't have said it better my self

[@rufiorufioo]

I've recently discovered this channel. I must say the historic information is extraordinarily interesting. I enjoy you going over the weapon and explaining it's purpose and understanding. THANKS!

[@TysoniusRex]

This video is without not only one of the most compelling videos I've seen by Ian, but one of the most that I've seen on KZbin, period. First, there's the whole history of Hiram Maxim, yet another genius in the field of firearms development. I can't imagine how wealthy he must have been by the time he died ("seven days and seven nights"!!!!). Secondly, the insight into why the Europeans didn't understand in advance what the machine guns were capable of on the modern battlefield. I'd always wondered about that myself. It reminds of an anecdote about how military observers in the American Civil War saw what massed infantry fire could do to cavalry, yet they initially used their tradition tactics decades (?) later in European wars. Apparently military observers were there so as not to bother their traditional leadership. Regardless, a fine video, Ian. Thanks.

[@WildBillCox13]

Thanks, Ian, for another great primer on infantry weapons used in the Great War. I love the collaboration between you guys (including the Inrange duo), Indy and the Great War team, and Othias and Mae over at C&Rsenal. This is one true example of the free dissemination of information we all hoped the Internet would open for the world of "inquiring minds". I salute you.

[@briansmithmier2499]

Ian is the best historian I have ever seen or heard. He makes learning about guns and the history of guns so much fun and so enjoyable! Thanks Ian!

[@SyG21]

Ian, I've been watching your KZbin videos for a while. This one is head and shoulders above the rest and I've never seen you do anything mediocre. Good job.

[@L0rd_0f_War]

Thank you for the historical perspective. It makes your videos so much more amazing. I watched this video twice just to absorb the history behind these deadly weapons.

[@pommel47]

Absolutely excellent video. I salute you. I remember reading that some Finnish Machine Gunners during the Winter War with the Soviets suffered a PTSD type malady because of the ennormous numbers of enemy infantry they mowed down. Even though they were fighting for their very survival, the horror of the massive human death that they caused was more than some could cope with. I have not read of this same situation in WW1, but I am certain that it must have happened, but was left out of history books for political reasons. I would be interested to know if there are any references to WW1 Machine Gunners who had to be relieved of duty or transferred to other duty because they simply reached a point where they could not kill on that scale anymore.

[@LUCNUKEM]

It's very possible that that was the case. However it's interesting to note that studies conducted by the US & other nations found that machine gun crews (& those of other crew served weapons) - although considerably more lethal then riglemen - did not suffer from the effects of PTSD as much or as soon as individual riflemen. The belief is that the guilt & horror is in a sense divided amongst the entire crew. An excellent book which covers the subject of killing in combat, it's effect on soldiers & how it's study revolutionized military training is On Killing by Lt Col Dave Grossman.

[@pommel47]

LUCNUKEM Thank you for the reference.

[@barthoving2053]

LUCNUKEM Are that WOI gunners? Because from the WOII on machinegunners kill more then riflemen but also kill from further away. Ripping apart a building or bush with men inside pr a ridge 1000m away is not the same then mowing down wave of wave of infantry coming at you at walking pace.

[@emmedigi89]

J.L. Roberts I don't really know much about the Winter War and the way it was fought but maybe the reasons of that PTSD malady should be looked for in the way the Soviets fought, sending hordes of men to assault enemy positions without any cover against machine gun fire.

[@pommel47]

Matteo Di Giovanni I believe you are spot on. Soviet Bonzai.

[@ArchitecturalOrphans]

I’ve been watching a lot of your videos lately, I think this is one of your best works! More like this please!

[@blazer6248]

Funny you mention that series. I started watching it the same day I started watching your channel. Thanks for the recommendation! All the sudden, I have this huge interest in history, military, guns, etc. Not really sure why but I'm glad we have channels like yours and the one you mentioned. Thanks again!

[@Teknophobe]

Loving this channel. Being Scottish, owning or possessing firearms it a legal nightmare. Being a mechanical engineer. The technical aspects in these vids fascinate me. Also, being posted with NATO, pre & post communist era. I have a working knowledge of certain period weapons, going back to WW2. Though it's the engineering side that fascinates. These posts are perfect. Gratitude. 👍 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

[@GermanSwordMaster]

You surely do know this, but just in case: There is a german saying: "Thats soo 08/15" for something beeing normal or generic :) Comes from the gun of course.

[@shawngilliland243]

I didn't know that; thanks for letting us know, Blank-blade.

[@manictiger]

The Chinese word for jerking off translates to "to shoot planes down", referring to how flak cannons recoil.

[@theotterguy]

@manictiger That's awesome.Rofl

[@theoroinvictus]

really cool stuff, thanks for pointing out TGW too. keep up the high-quality content, Ian!

[@Dr.VonBraun]

Thank you for taking the time to go over all of these fascinating firearms. I learned so much.

[@leneanderthalien]

The cause why the Hotchkiss machine guns was steel trips feed was the Lebel cartige: had a very conical shape (specialy designed for the tube magazine from the Lebel rifle) and provide many problems on automatic weapons like the Chauchat automatic rifle or the RSC 1917 and 1918 semi auto rifles, but with metal strips was the postionning from the cartige very precise , this avoid jamming problems...

[@littletweeter1327]

man the hotchkiss just looks so nice. love the looks of the super heavy barrel and cooling fins

[@Hellhound23691]

I was actually watching The Great War before I saw this, but I was happy to see you give them a shout out. Indi and his team are great. In your opinion, how did Browning's M1917 stack up to Maxim's design?

[@sxleong]

Microzombie inthink it's the maxim but better in every way except for the single pistol grip vs two hand grip.

[@anzaca1]

13:28 The Frenach did develop an articulated metal feed belt for use one Hotchkiss guns in tanks in 1917.

[@larrytate6884]

Ian, this type of video is the reason I can not wait to see your next one. Great work!

[@Cplblue]

Interesting. Seems the "whole nine yards" adage is credited to more than one thing. I always heard it was from the length of the belts on P-51's.

[@RobertSnyder808]

I heard it was the waist guns on the b17s, but I tend to see this example (WW1 machine guns)the most likely origin of the phrase

[@tonyktx44]

Cplblue I've away's heard it was the length of the US bomber' s 50 cal defense mg belts....

[@egeesey72]

I've also heard it used in the concrete industry. The majority of concrete mixing trucks hold 9 cubic yards of concrete.

[@pommel47]

Cplblue I thought it was the length of plaid fabric used in early, traditional Scotish kilts when they were wrapped around the body rather than the more modern tailored and permanently pleated ones we see today.

[@newtracetriad]

Cplblue I've heard it was from the length of belts on Spitfires. It seems like the saying has originated from machine gun belts anyways.

[@stevem7]

Awesome! Love the historical perspective. Want to hear more!

[@andrewcole6367]

What a well presented channel.Knowledge combined with great delivery

[@appidydafoo]

This is one of the most fascinating subjects I've seen you cover, thank you so much

[@iainmackenzie6379]

I laughed when Ian mentioned the great war. TGW and FW are literally the only things i watch on YT anymore

[@tonyevans9311]

There should be a condenser box attached by a rubber tube to the front of the sleeve covering the Vickers so that the water would cool and recycled around the barrel !

[@pushbikeman]

This is a studious video with a lot of information to absorb but the topic is vital to add to anyone's understanding of the great war. Despite this video being basically one long narration, it is made easy to follow and understand by the excellent narrator/presenter whose easy-going style is a treat so I found this a most interesting essay that remained entertaining.

[@michaelmaxwell568]

Extremely interesting and informative. Thanks for this video!

[@mr.intolerance]

And again you gave us the whole nine yards of information. Good work.

[@karlbrundage7472]

And yet, most casualties of the great war was from artillery. It's not a hit on the automatic weapons employed during the war, but rather, the scale of the modern weapons that overwhelmed the visionaries and futurists during the period of the Great War, who never envisioned 120mm trench mortars or tanks in their prewar forecasts.

[@frederik7338]

In a way the Machine guns are the reason that Artillery was the main killer. Because you could argue that they forced the generals to abandon offensive maneuvers in favour of trying to weaken the enemy positions with continous artillery barrage before lauching any assaults.

[@hauki9286]

Frederik sh Spot on!

[@rosssmithies8331]

Let's not forget that machine guns very often acted as artillery. The British Army's Machine Gun Corps was equipped with Vickers guns (as the Lewis was replacing them in the infantry from '16-ish onwards) which were worked into artillery fire plans as area denial/suppression. I'm not denying that 'true' artillery played the overwhelming part in major actions and contributed to the overwhelming amount of casualties, but machine guns certainly played a significant role in the artillery's work.

[@OhNotThat]

artillery really got the best bang for your buck in terms of raw damage. A couple of shells lobbed into densely packed lines and trenches is devastating - there was no counter even foxholes cause the barrage kept coming, even if the actual artillery commanders can't quite figure out how effective their fire is. It's either an hour long barrage that kills a few messenger pigeons and nothing else, missing everything of value cause they aimed wrong or an empty part of the line or obliterated thousands of men without knowing it until hours afterwards.

[@jonathonpotthoff7057]

This video deserves a noble prize, no video I’ve seen shows change on a global scale like this one. This video is a gift to humanity!

[@josemoreno3334]

This was the first one i watched and i been hooked ever since. (And no pony tail !) . Thanks Ian for all the grate info about those Forgotten Weapons. Grate show.

[@raffyc66]

2020 - still fascinated. Thank you Sir.

[@evgeny7039]

I am pretty sure someone already did a quick math on how much ammo the Brits used to test fire the Maxim gun over those 7 days of continuous operation. About 4,5 million rounds!!! That would be a few million dollars nowadays:) Why would they want to do that?

[@ForgottenWeapons]

Because they were adopting the 7.62 NATO cartridge, and the .303 ammo was all obsolete.

[@evgeny7039]

Thanks for the clarification. I am the kind of person that wants to know the cause of things. Especially if the fact sounds really odd to me:)

[@M4nusky]

They didn't stop making 303 British cartridges but it's an old black powder-era design. Also a rimmed cartridge that makes it fussy to use in automatic or semi-auto weapons. (7.62 is rimless)

[@0nkelD0kt0r]

Of course every company can produce them, the point is that the british military didn't have a lot of use for their stockpiles of 303 anymore. They could have sold them as well but it seems they rather wanted to blow them into the dirt.

[@MrReded69]

Its also easier to recycle empty brass cartridge casings than full ones. Imagine all the manual labor required to unseat bullets and primers out of the cartridges and the storage of all the unused aging gunpowder.

[@angrykiwi6360]

Great work on the great guns from the Great War, Ian.

[@js3883]

Bar none, the best 22.29 minutes spent learning about world war I. Good job, Good job. This supplements all documentaries on WWI.

[@poppacross79]

The whole nine yards refers to the Naval Officer's guide. Wherein nine yards of rope is used to form a hangman's noose. It dates back to before the American Revolution.

[@marksaunderson3042]

Well explained and demonstrated.

[@forrestozbolt1107]

2 things. #1 - I love your channel. Seriously entertaining and equally educational. #2 I am super jealous of your glorious locks. That is some genuinely righteous hair.

[@dirkvanroeyen2543]

Great video as always. The author combines very detailed technical expertise with historical facts blending it a great videos. Thanks a lot really appreciated. One question did the Vickers not use a condensator?

[@Nukle0n]

You should get a sponsorship from Maybelline Ian :P

[@2tommyrad]

Nukle0n from an eye makeup company??? wth?

[@Adamanteus08]

Nukle0n maybe its natural? X'D

[@2tommyrad]

Inhimilis LOL WAYYYY too much TV. Be a Clairol girl LOL

[@Adamanteus08]

Tommy Rad I have not had a TV in 8 years O.o

[@kingofzombies9873]

+Inhimilis MAYBE HE'S BORN WITH IT MAYBE IT'S COSMOLINE

[@rotorheadv8]

The Marine Corps Museum in Quantico, VA has some very nice selections of machine guns from WW1. The thickness of their barrels is astonishing compared to today’s machine guns of similar caliber.

[@willpugh8865]

i was just watching a ton of The Great Wars channel absolutely love that dude

[@Metalstr8jacket]

VERY informative, Thank you so much for your material!!!

[@kendog84bsc]

Many people might have made similar comments already, but these machineguns and their backgrounds are horrifying, sad and quite fascinating for me at the same time. Thanks for the video!

[@ISawABear]

Two channels I love coming together to tell history? yes please.Also waiting for JAWN TRAWN to get here.

[@jamesdunn3864]

Excellent video! Thank you. As an example of the force multiplying effect of the machine gun, the Anglo-French writer and historian Hilaire Belloc famously said in 1898, "Whatever happens, we have got the Maxim gun and they have not", The "they" in question being any rebellious colonial subjects against which the machine gun was used.

[@cassiecraft8856]

I can think of a million nice things to say about this video,but it's best to just say:excellently honest and informative!!! Well done,and said!

[@JonatasAdoM]

That's why history is so important. Otherwise we might commit the same mistakes they those men did in their time

[@putter9198]

I wish i have had You as my history teacher, this was truly interesting, greetings from Sweden

[@9stendek4]

Excellent video. It was very informative. Well done!

[@Smokeater555]

Great show Ian....keep up the good work. Very interesting!

[@danieldeak9141]

World War 1 machine guns are so last century

[@NotACutie]

Try telling that to ukraine.

[@pyry1948]

what are you trying to say with this statement?

[@jamesdean4992]

These machine guns would be just as effective to day their just heavy

[@mikemanthey6183]

Dániel Deák yeah if by that u mean rugged reliable and vertually industructable but also heavy as hell.

[@ZerokillerOppel1]

Ofcourse! A 100 year old bullet kills just as much as a new one...

[@Dano10101]

That commander at the end sounds like a real dinosaur. A damn revolver can take out a mounted soldier and he underrestimated the machine gun.

[@elicasey3967]

Thank you for all your excellent videos.

[@alasdairmunro1953]

A great video which really brings home the attitudes to weapons and warfare at the time.

[@SigmarJuffe]

Amazing video.

[@infcommando1567]

I know this probably wont get a view because this is an older video, but the phrase "Give em the whole 9 yards" was most used in the second world war by .50 cal gunners on american bombers, as the belts stretched 27 feet on planes, but for the vickers belts and all that im not exactly sure they are 27 feet

[@thustra07]

This is the video that led me to The Great War channel. Glad I watched it as soon as it came out. I only had a year to catch up on then.

[@geoffwarner8986]

Thank you for making the informative and interesting video. I really enjoyed it.

[@Jam-J-Rambo]

Thank you, for yet another great video. Extremely informative and interesting! It's great to have such an in depth history lesson, which focuses mainly on the weapons. I'm an armourer in the UK. I'm pretty jealous of how easily available weapons are in the USA. Europe has designed some fantastic guns over the years, yet we are never aloud to own such fantastic examples of engineering and modern history. It's great to have some one go in depth and cover the action for us who cannot always see such items in the flesh. I'm a fairly new subscriber to your channel, and I'm not disappointed. Every video of yours I have watched over the last week or so has kept me coming back for more. Thank you for the fantastic content, and please keep it coming. Cheers!

[@ForgottenWeapons]

+kilbourne50 Thanks!

[@afterhourswhoup9568]

Nice hair dude.

[@joshstanton267]

bet he's probably a metalhead :)

[@mattjohnson7775]

+Josh Stanton oh no doubt

[@cougar2k720]

Gun Jesus at his best

[@blankblank5409]

Gun jesus

[@brianfuller5868]

Great video, Ian. 3 very legendary arms and that includes the Hotchkiss.

[@jacobeberhardt1649]

Can't wait to see you and all those other channels working on the WW2 project with the Great War crew. It should be amazing.