Is it Time to Give Up on "Black Excellence"?

The concept of "Black Excellence" is rooted in capitalist achievement and can lead to overwhelming pressure and expectations for Black professionals, particularly Black women, in predominantly white spaces. Let's discuss it.
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TLDR: The concept of "Black Excellence" is rooted in capitalist achievement and can lead to overwhelming pressure and expectations for Black professionals, particularly women, in predominantly white spaces.
00:00 Challenging the concept of "Black Excellence" rooted in capitalism and appearance, and redefining it through community voices and historical context is necessary for a more comprehensive understanding of Black history.
19:09 Black excellence is important but comes with challenges, including the impact of affirmative action, backlash against diversity programs, and the constant need to prove oneself.
30:03 The speaker questions the impact of "Black excellence" mindset, discussing burnout, resentment, and societal expectations, while reflecting on the election of Barack Obama and their own experience with socioeconomic stratification.
40:05 Black Excellence often benefits white people more than Black people, and the speaker questions its overuse and lack of real substance in addressing systemic oppression and economic inequality.
57:32 The concept of "Black Excellence" may no longer be helpful as it overlooks the reality of people's situations and the diminishing class mobility, with younger generations facing different financial challenges.
01:08:18 Black excellence in media should not be the only representation of Black women, as vulnerability and authenticity are essential for true equality and human representation, leading to a shift in societal and institutional roles and the need to redefine excellence.
01:19:56 Black Excellence can be problematic as it often promotes assimilation and elitism, and the solution is to redefine what it truly means.

[@arielpearson4819]

No child should have a "grindset" at 7, and I'm speaking from personal experience.

[@thespadestable]

@arielpearson4819 - The only "grindset" they should have is learning their academics and enjoying being a 7 year old.

[@DnewNancy]

That story about your mom saving her accomplishments over a 2 year span because she anticipated being overlooked is a powerful powerful story that needs to be unpacked. My mentor has ALWAYS stressed you need to keep a folder with every important move you make in there - in case the time comes which in fact it always does.

[@dariusd2003]

That's insane because I'm an engineer (director now) with the same experience. I was repeatedly passed for promotions with the excuse of not being in the organization long enough or my director/manager not knowing exactly what I did despite hitting all my metrics and exceeding them. Saving evidence of key milestones and accomplishments help during the backroom baseline and promotion discussions. I realized having an advocate matters the most. I started to think something was wrong with me even as an MIT ChemE/mba grad.

[@NatalieBaucum]

​@dariusd2003 nothing wrong with you at all. The game is to bring in diversity hires and if you have a bum leader, they will practice racism with your career.

[@aaliyahjackson9734]

@@dariusd2003that’s disheartening, but I’m glad you’ve overcome your tribulations

[@missmytime]

Same! Multiple STEM degrees (top 10 universities, currently pursuing second Masters at an Ivy), over 20 years in tech, built platforms and led initiatives and got passed over for promotions by guys that would even admit to me that they were less credentialed. The glass ceiling in tech is particularly problematic. In a field that’s arguably been the most disruptive in our lifetime, with all the appearances of progress and meritocracy, very little seems to have changed decades later.

[@bmwjourdandunngoddess6024]

@@dariusd2003How do you save those key milestones though? Do you ask for a paper, like how do you even save yourself getting credit for it?

[@DannielleSudena]

Yes. Let’s focus on Black wellness. I think we should do what brings us joy and fulfillment. If that is being excellent, so be it. However, if not, that’s fine too. I chased that whole Black excellence thing during law school at the expense of mental, emotional, and physical health. Now I have ditched that mindset. I have a therapist, 2 gym memberships, eating whole plant-based, & regularly doing yoga/ meditation. I’m MUCH more joyful this way than chasing a “dream” that’s more expensive than it’s worth. & I’ll still be an attorney, but at my own pace in my own way that is most effective for the people I serve and the communities I empower.

[@user-vf3fz7qv6v]

I really love this. I also felt this need to achieve. I’ve been feeling this as well. I’m glad you found ways to support your mental health and well being

[@lakeytasmith2643]

❤❤❤ This!

[@florazul5240]

Beautiful message ❤

[@lovegyrlnco]

Love this!!! ❤❤

[@krystalclear4ya]

Love this for you! ❤

[@Chichick21]

First, off I want to say I love this conversation!!! Second, there is a perspective of the Black impoverished, neurodivergent and disabled kids/adults that I think needs to be heard!!! I'm 37 I have a chronic illness, neurodivergent, and living at home with my mom. I've been "working hard" to just receive crumbs most my life in all aspects of my life and all it has gotten me is chronic pain, MS, having to quit my job, and having to leave my apartment because I can't live alone with my illness. Growing up I didn't have the luxury of this Black Excellence idea, even though I know exactly what it was. I was the "slow" child in my family even though i'm the oldest in my family.Yes, some teachers, my mom, and my father's wife would encourage me to do the best I could but there was this air around it like no matter how hard I will try because of me being "special" that I wouldn't get far. As a child I didn't understand the undertones of how adults use to talk to me but I knew it wasn't the same as the neurotypical kids. Growing up it felt like I was running a race I was never meant to win and the trophy was Black Excellence in all it's forms. Black Excellence doesn't include those who are deemed "lazy"(people from the hood), "slow"(neurodivergent folks), "unequipped"(disabled folks), and "waste of space"(queer folks). No matter how close you get if you can't fully mask being disabled, neurodivergent, queer, and from the hood you will never be seen as one of them.

[@selena6536]

I so appreciate that caller who brought up the question of who truly benefits from Black excellence. My family fits the archetype and at first it was such a point of pride and aspiration but I eventually found out how intertwined it is with respectability politics. I was told the same things about how I was expected to perform at a high level but when I got sick during my late high school and university years I was penalized rather than supported. Particularly because it was mental illness, I was suddenly at risk of embarrassing my family, I was told to get myself together so “they” wouldn’t see us as incompetent (I went to PWIs). As I also tried to navigate the racism in these institutions I found myself having to mask and fawn in order to stay in the good graces of the people who had influence over how my studies would go. I couldn’t show weakness because it would be understood as failure, not just personal but one that would reflect on my family and my people (I was now performing for other black people too. My family spoke as if it were our responsibility to set an example and looking back I think it was also very much about creating a separation between our blackness and theirs). It was too much pressure for someone that young, but sadly I eventually gave up asking for help because people just kept expecting me to just put my head down, be strong and persevere just like I'd always been able to do in the past. That’s why I believe there are also ableist sentiments in the way the ideals of black excellence have us thinking about work and performance. I had to compose myself in a way that made people in the institution comfortable and confident in my being there. I couldn’t freely fight back, challenge the system (and my family) too much or speak about how it was harming or failing me, I could only silently try to protect myself. I was not given the same space to be flawed like my white counterparts. Ultimately, I felt like the loser in the situation. I had to question and redefine my perception of excellence, and unleash it from the parameters of capitalist ideology and white society’s markers for success because it truly wasn’t serving me. I was in a state of constant performance and it was dehumanizing, limiting and isolating. To be healthy I had to find a new identity outside of being a black “golden child”. It’s not the same thing but it feels like a reproduction of the model minority myth, just amongst stratifications of black people. There becomes one way to embody success and its one that often requires compliance with the system. It creates that separation between the “good” ones and the ones that “aren’t trying hard enough”. The typcial presentation of black excellence works for some people but I'd rather it be chosen as an aspiration rather than imposed by societal pressure. Young people especially need to know that their families and communities will celebrate, support and uplift them no matter who they turn out to be. I’ll always love to see black people winning but because of these reasons I’m wary of what ideologies that we base our mindsets, behaviors and standards for living well/success on.

[@sarahgates6947]

That's facts about Viola Davis, who is an EGOT which is the highest honor in her creative career. Meryl Streep still has two to go if she doesn't win a Grammy tonight. It's sad that Viola Davis doesn't get the same respect or funds as Meryl Streep.

[@t.lockheart8565]

I wish this was explored more.

[@BrickCity8919]

As a woman who wants to have babies one day, I’m grateful for black excellence because it provides me with doctors that want to see me make it out of the hospital after birthing. Excellence isn’t just a way to earn praise from non-black people, it’s a way to care for other black people when the larger society doesnt. Its a way to build spaces where we are valued and safe. If we didnt pursue excellence we would be at the mercy of others at all times

[@SunseedStarchild]

This!!!

[@Annoyed_Human]

Misconception. Who u think they get their marching orders from? I jus cant fathom yall r so smart but still so damn stoopiid. Like, it jus boggles me. Ur a rat n a race. N the concept that u even think u can "educate" urself outta this existence is insanity. Save ur womb...work wit children.. keep a safe distance...never get married...lose the fallacy of a true/close friend...always b ready 2 walk away at a moments notice n ull b happy. But, i know nothing! 🙏🏽

[@missmytime]

🎯 completely agree with this perspective. Just because black excellence has been contorted and twisted by ppl with self-serving motives does not mean it needs to define everyone that has a calling to exhibit it to benefit others.

[@taressastraughter7788]

Wow I agree

[@jbell7105]

Point made Sis!

[@wfrencher80]

I have a lot to say about this topic, but I'll try and keep it somewhat short, but I'll try and also provide enough context so people can understand what I'm trying to say. I grew up privileged. Both my parents are doctors, and have been married for 45 years. I have 4 siblings, 3 brothers and 1 sister. I believe me and my siblings looked at our parents as the representation of black excellence. My parents never explicitly told us to be excellent in school, but we implicitly felt that we had to live up to the same standards that our parents reached for themselves. We also went to a top 5 high school in Michigan, and even though the school was around 95 percent white, mostly everyone was expected to graduate and pursue a college education. So, I didn't really consider what me and my siblings were doing as black excellence, because I was surrounded by excellent individuals, no matter what race, ethnicity, or gender. But I still thought that our achievements in academia, and in our careers were indicators of whether we represented excellence overall. My siblings, and I have done extremely well. My oldest brother, and youngest brother are both doctors who both went to the University of Michigan then Yale Residency for my older brother, and University of Illinois Chicago Medical school for my younger brother. My other brother works for the Department of Defense in cyber security, and my sister is a field engineer at a large construction company here in Michigan. I also went to the University of Michigan, and I majored in mechanical engineering. I went there for 6 years and I actually didn't graduate. I have 148 credits, but no degree. For the sake of not making this post extremely long, I won't go into the details of why I didn't graduate unless someone is interested. Currently, I'm a successful journeyman electrician working out of ibew local 58 here in Detroit. I absolutely love my career, and we make extremely good money in my local union. I guess I share all this to say that my family would fit that definition of black excellence, but now that Ive been married for 7 years, and i have kid, I've learned that being excellent, for me, has little to do with my success in my academics or my career. I view myself achieving excellence when I grew more emotionally intelligent, and when I was able to have the tools to better communicate with my wife. My excellence was achieved when I began to understand that my value doesn't come from my success in my career, or how much money I make, but it comes from recognizing that Im important no matter what my status is. When my son was 3 years old we were both at the park walking to my car. My son suddenly looked up at me and he said, “dad….I love you". And it was so non-chalant that it caught me off guard. I really didn't know what to say. I don't ever remember, when I was his age, saying I love you to my dad like that. I later brought this up to my therapist, and I told my therapist that I couldn't understand why he told me that he loved me. It didn't make sense to me because I didnt do anything for my son to say that to me. I felt like I didn't deserve his love at that moment. My therapist told me, “Will, you don't have to do anything to be worthy of your son’s love. He loves you because of who you are, not what you do. You're his dad, and loves you”. After this experience, it was like a weight had been lifted off my shoulders. I no longer thought that I had to perform to prove that I was a worthy person. I hope eventually our community can expand on what we think black excellence looks like.

[@thesciencer1015]

@wfrencher80 What are the details of why you didn't graduate if I may ask? i'm an impending college graduate from UDC in DC. In the event I finish this semester with my final 6 classes. It took me 8 years to graduate from 18 to turning to 26 this year and I already have it in my head that I have to go to grad school within the year and my masters degree by the time I'm 30. For me, it's never been a problem to surpass my parents career/professional wise, but wanting to match my grandparents in their lifestyles (my paternal grandparents: Big Daddy navy man going onto work in the administration of the DC superior courthouse Big momma HBCU college educated working for the fed gov and the office of international development; my maternal grandparents: Grandpa masters degree in mechanical arts and working for the Washington Post Grandma masters degree in teaching and was reading specialist teacher. Point being, How have you, Mr. Will, been able to better separate your professional and familial sense of success and reconcile it with your personal sense of success? Where would you advise someone younger to start in that endeavor?

[@wfrencher80]

​@@thesciencer1015 I so much appreciate you for sharing your story. I'm really excited for you to continue your journey into your professional career. So…..your question is awesome! Ok, I'm going to give you a relatively long answer here, and my answer won't be long enough to really say everything that I want/need to say that would give you a clear understanding of what I'm trying to convey. But if you want to continue a dialogue after you've read my response, I'm definitely willing to continue that with you. When I was a kid, I knew I wanted to be an automotive engineer. I loved cars, and I knew I wanted to be involved in the design and creation of future ones. My junior year of high school I knew I wanted to go to the University of Michigan because that's where my parents went, and my older brother went there also. So I got accepted there, and in 2002 I headed to Ann Arbor, Michigan for my freshman year. So here's my experience with college. Michigan was awesome, the University is top notch, especially in their engineering program. And I loved exploring the campus, and I loved meeting new people. However, I hated my classes, and I struggled in most of them. Calculus, thermodynamics, organic chemistry, and physics were difficult. Then when I got into my core engineering classes thing just got worse for me. I couldn't understand why the curriculum was so difficult for me. I later joined the SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers) racing club. We basically built a more sophisticated go-kart from scratch, with the exception of the engine. And I enjoyed some aspects of the building and designing process, but I wasn't really feeling passionate about the work I was doing. After my third year at Michigan I decided to change my major. I decided I would major in biology with a minor in sociology. I was thinking that I would get my degree, and then go on to graduate school and become a biology teacher. But the more time I spent at college the more uncertain I became about whether I was making the right decision about my career choice. Then one day when I was sitting in the computer lab working on my ecology final, I took all my books, threw them in the trash and walked away from college for good. I didn't tell my parents I dropped out of college. I was afraid they would be disappointed, and I was already disappointed in myself. I felt like a failure. I was the only one in my family not to graduate from college. I couldn't understand why everyone else in my family was so smart, and I wasn't. After I dropped out of college, there were a lot of significant events that happened. I won't go into detail because this response is already getting too long. But if you want more detail I'm willing to share. At the end of 2013 I got divorced, and I moved back to Michigan. I was almost 30 years old, living with my parents, with no degree, no savings, no car, and I had no idea what I wanted to do with my life. In 2014 I went through 5 different jobs. In July of 2014 I met my current wife through an online dating app called Okcupid. I believe Okcupid still exists. Anyway, at the end of 2014 I moved to Galveston, TX (about 50 miles south of Houston), to be with my wife. When I first moved to Texas I got a job at a hotel resort working in hospitality making $9.00 an hour. I didn't have a clue what I wanted to do as a career. I thought about how much I enjoyed working on the farm, so I decided maybe I should explore a skilled trade. So I applied to join the IBEW local 527 electrician union, and I was accepted into the local in June 2015. From the moment I joined I loved the work I was doing. I loved working with my hands, I loved learning electrical theory, and electrical code. I graduated at the top of my class, I scored a 98 percent on my electricians journeyman's exam, and I got my license in 2020. So here's the thing. Even though I was a good electrician, I still didn't think I measured up to my siblings in terms of their success. I was surrounded by doctors and engineers. But there was something important that I had started to notice when I had conversations with my family. As awesome as they were in their professions, they didn't know anything about electrical code or installing electrical equipment. I had realized at this moment that the way society sees intellect is very narrow. I also realized that I am just as valuable as a doctor is. So I always tell people this. My parents and my brothers save lives everyday, but they can not install a ceiling fan. If they're power goes out, they're calling me. They wouldnt know what size conductors to run for a 100 amp service, and what code reference tells us the correct size, article 310 in the NFPA 70e, by the way. Let me leave you with this. I do what I do because I love the work. And I'm very good at my job. When I was in Texas my local union paid us $29.86/hr. When I joined the local union in Detroit my pay increased to $50.32/hr, plus we get awesome benefits. When I moved my skill set didn't get $20/hr better. That's just how the market works in different areas. So I don't measure my success based on how much money I'm bringing in. I'm successful because I'm passionate enough about my career to inspire others. I also get up every morning, and I look forward to going to work. My advice, find something you enjoy man. Ideally, you wanna find something that you enjoy doing and it pays well. But I would definitely prioritize pursuing a career you're passionate about. Because the more you like your career the more you're going to want to keep getting better at it. Telling people that I make 6 figures is cool, but what makes me feel alive is when I can educate someone about what I do. I know I didn't answer all your questions. I'll send another response because this one is waaay long winded. Let me know if you have any other questions.

[@carlac9782]

Thank you very much for sharing this. It's just such a beautiful message.

[@thesciencer1015]

@@wfrencher80 i'd love to continue the dialogue. what's the most convenient way to reach out to you?

[@danielengotto7714]

One thing im noticing is that most people who can qualify to participate in Black Excellence circles usually already come from a place of immense wealth and access. I come from a working class background and since im in college I enteract with many people who are this way. Although i am smart, in order to get these internships, get these part time student jobs , I need money to access these spaces. I cant afford to move to an area without years of planning because i dont have the financial safetynet to do so, I cant apply for jobs I need to boost my resume because I don't the wealth to give me the time to hire babysitter for my brother. A lot of these things needed for upwards social mobility already means you have something to work with. I am lucky to be smart and an aptitude to process information but because I dont have the wealth,i cant capitalize on it. I also dont wajt to because bending mysekf as much as i already isn't fun so why sign but for more suffering,just on a bigger budget.

[@rlee1701]

Black excellence fuels capitalism, and capitalism was never meant to save Black people. We have value, we matter, and we deserve to take up space because we exist. Period.

[@keishaByfield]

I’m glad you pointed this! I was thinking the same thing. I read a new book recently called Rest Is Resistance and it really changed my mindset.

[@Drega001]

Black mediocrity fuels it just the same. 🤷🏾‍♂️ It's like....a societally.... accepted.... system...or.....somethiiinnng?

[@thespadestable]

@rlee1701 - Really? Well, you and scores of other Blacks, from high school dropout to Ph.D. recipients out here making an honest buck are earning off the backs of capitalism, be it worker bees for an employer, or own their own business. The American Dream was never designed to "save" anyone, but a concept that many have undertaken and succeeded. The host of this channel loves to praise her mother for being a successful engineer; meaning her mother went into a quid pro quo agreement with an employer or employers to loan them her skills in exchange for a fair market salary, and collectively with the talents of the other employees, the company attempted to thrive in their industry to provide a service to their customers for monetary gain. Looks like you didn't read the memo.

[@flazay_da]

I find it very interesting seeing the comments that the folks most against Black Excellence are the ones who grew up financially secure, in white suburban spaces, and/or have obtained financial stability for themselves as an adult. It's easy to disavow a concept when you can use the funds/skills gained from accessing high paying careers to fund a slower, wellness focused lifestyle now. As someone who grew up poor and are still poor but a lil above the average I see the downsides to not having had that Black Excellency mindset reinforced. My peers who didn't go to college (any, not just 4 year) are by and large the workers destroying their bodies in the factories or getting yelled at in call centers for 16/hr. I'm lucky in that my family did push it along with the BIPOC public schools I went to that has allowed me to get the 50k/yr do nothing office job which is def still poor but way more comfortable w/ good health insurance compared to the even worse alternative. Trust me, yall with the actual lucrative corpo jobs should thank your parents. I still deal with the same stressful white corpo surveillance and scrutiny without the 80k+ perks.

[@telly_0]

You can't 'work hard' at everything. It's very unlikely to be interested enough in everything to put in that kind of effort without being miserable. Is that what you mean by work hard? Work hard at everything even if it's a constant uphill battle because the work doesn't match your interests or natural gifts?

[@babyjki444]

help i had a blackberry in middle school, i'm 25. i was in nobody’s meetings. 😭

[@jasmined9607]

My ma told us daily “be a good citizen and do A work” in elementary school. You know it got worse as I got older. Black excellence and respectability politics at its “finest”. Lastly (just finished vid)I have to analyze my biases too. Cause I have to catch myself before I say elitist things too. Especially when it comes to schooling.

[@chironsthea607]

Thank you! I thought it was 3 times harder to get half as far. I was valedictorian in high school, went to a hidden Ivy league, was a college senator, had several leadership roles for clubs and committees. Apart from school, I was also a house manager for a multi-million dollar housing cooperative and definitely felt targeted throughout those roles. Felt that, "looks good on paper, but in person...culture shock" thing heavy.

[@cscreative5460]

29:08 this is one of the reasons I despise corporate. I do my job and I’m always “making a case”. It’s SO exhausting. I feel like that’s why most of use just job hop. Nobody wants to do all of that when your peers aren’t working as hard or keeping their records.

[@user-vf3fz7qv6v]

I love this topic. Maybe because I grew up in predominantly white spaces but I chased black excellence as way to try to escape discrimination and to “prove” that I belonged in a space but I learned that I can never escape the racism and discrimination and that it negatively impacts my mental health. It also feels anti-black in a way at least in my quest and some of the motivations for BE. Other races aren’t asked for excellence and automatically get respect and acceptance and I believe black people deserve the same regardless of class, status, wealth

[@BrickCity8919]

One of my best friends is Chinese and I promise you, other races have parents who expect excellence out of then

[@Boahemaa]

All the way in Ghana Obama's election was a time. Every other barber shop had him on the wall. Every other business had Obama in the name. Every other boy had Obama as a nickname. It was crazy. If you were poised in any manner in your friend group and a boy you were Obama the girls were Michelle. Power couples became Barak and Michelle. To be honest those of us who were there still use these terms in the same way. Getting to be an Obama youth is still something people strive for on campuses across the country. Social Media lends itself to leftist performance but in the real world the Obamas are still a model to strive for.

[@thespadestable]

@Boahemaa - And to this day, Barack Obama is a Fabian Socialist. An ideology that was never entertained in everyday Black America except for the elitist mentality circles of W. E. B. Du Bois and those under him who sought to push for the realization of the Talented Tenth. _Stand for nothing, and you will fall for anything_

[@louisachalarca6494]

It is a completely different context but the way your mom has to keep receipts and notes on EVERYTHING reminds me of when sharing about help with stalking or reporting SA the first thing to stress if want any type of legal validation KEEP EVERYTHING. Anything that may be connected to the situation be a detective yourself about the crime committed against you and keep files and receipts and photos of everything for reporting or don’t count your luck.

[@xBlackBunnyx]

This was such a good conversation. So many great questions were asked and so many things were questioned and explored. Your mom's experience (the promotion story) brought tears to my eyes TBH. There is just so much weight placed on us from such a young age. I remember conversations that I really wish didn't take place the time they did. I also remember stories of triumph, strength, and perseverance. I don't think tough, not-so-happy and good conversations made me insecure, but they did make me hard in a sense. It made me into a person who pushes back and isn't afraid to stand alone because in many spaces (esp. places like higher education, the workplace, etc.) as a black woman, you are in a crowded room all alone with people who make it very clear that they can't wait to take you down--including teachers, "mentors", etc.

[@Ahvey_Y]

I think what’s important to take into account is, what is the goal or intention for every move we make? Pursuing Black Excellence isn’t bad if that’s what you want but it’s important to know what you’re aiming for or else you’ll end up in a never ending “rat race” . But overall, as others have said, wellness is what matters most. Definition of wellness will differ from person to person but what matters is what will give you peace of mind and contentment.

[@lizziedanse8335]

I'm not interested in 'black excellence' if it is just gaining access to, maintaining, and pedestalizing white power structures, particularly by ostracizing and assessing a level of worth that black people have within that structure. If black excellence is what I am hoping it is/becomes, it is supporting the diversity of lived experiences and expressions of black people; celebrating accomplishments that uplift those that achieve them and those that support the upliftment of their community despite hurdles the power structure has built; fostering a culture of wellness (mind, body, interpersonal, reasources) individually and communally; etc. I agree that as its being used in this day and age, its just pospering and respectability politics.

[@SugarCookiePlaysAdoptMe]

49:16 me thinking "Kim, its ok for them to eat fruit" 🤣Wrong blackberry

[@olilumgbalu5653]

In reply to Isha_W in the chat who said: "Gifted and Talented kids are now BURNT OUT." How do you know that? Do you know every Gifted and Talented kid? Also, in my day it was known as Talented and Gifted (TAG, an acronym which alludes to being branded in order to separate (isolate) you from the rest and closely monitor/follow you, as with, for example, a tagged red blood cell scan).

[@LoveSierraAnastasia]

That's so interesting with your family's excellence discussion. I grew up somewhat similarly but it wasn't framed as excellence, it was framed as normal expectations, so I liken that more so to just being accomplished and nothing special since I assumed everyone was doing it. I didn't know college was optional until my friends in high school were deciding if they want to go to college rather than where. Regarding excellence as a whole to prove oneself, I don't agree with it but of course support it for personal growth. I generally don't believe in working harder than others to get to the same place and at this phase in my life I'm not here to save anyone.I will put in the same effort as everyone else who is mediocre.

[@MichelleNgome]

One thing I was surprised that was not mentioned is WEB DuBois Talented Tenth. This is something I heard quite often when participating in leadership programs. I believe this term created some separation, or elitism, among working Black folks. I do think Black Excellence has been minimized to Instagram and various photo ops. Don't get me wrong there are a ton of quality, educated, well-paid Black folks, but if it is not highlighted online there's no credibility to it. The work can't always be the work.

[@ohay10]

kim love you and your content and your honest but it was super difficult to hear you talk about the idea of hard work and your judgement of people who you deem don’t work hard. i think it’s much easier to take that stance when your personal hard work paid off. but there are countless people who’ve worked hard, gave it their all and just couldn’t recover after it not working out. idk… hard work isn’t fool proof or fail proof.

[@selena6536]

True, at the end of the day we don't live in a meritocracy. So much of who attains this excellence has to do with luck and access. Its a bit concerning that the recognition comes to people who can portray it through wealth and status (particularly through association with white institutions) but it doesn't include working class and poor people who may be doing more for their families and communities than we even realize.

[@BrickCity8919]

👏🏼

[@BrickCity8919]

@@selena6536this as well ❤

[@imeakpan]

Something that I wish I did was take records of my time working in white spaces for in the future when they would overlook me.

[@v.velarde3694]

Facts, I make way more than my mom did at this age and it's no way I could afford two houses either. Ohhhh I know exactly what you mean when you say Howard black excellence is different because whew!!

[@karenthue8978]

Thank you for a great video!

[@PoetryGirl]

There are so many gems that was laid out in the conversation. Black excellence should have never been our goal as Black people in this country. I was born in 1981. Black excellence was a thing then. I believe it has been a thing ever since the inception of Black people having to assimilate in order obtain any kind of financial success in this country. (let’s be honest, black excellence. It’s only seen when you have obtained certain status in society, which have to include wealth and power.) “Success” in this country means buying into capitalism. As we know, capitalism has not saved Black people and never will. I had to come in before you completed the whole video so you might address this later I’m at the 55 minute mark of this video. Great topic 😊

[@twentysvn]

‘The Carter III on iPod Nanos’ I’m in shambles 😂

[@jadeelise7982]

I guess I would call your reference to black washing - code switching

[@letmeseemm]

In the 90s black excellence was like this response to all of these negative media perceptions of black people but now in this era of late stage capitalism its more like self exploitation. You are working twice as hard to get half as much.

[@yelxebi.392]

Black excellence does not equal black elite.

[@skyetranqille9534]

You're soooooooo right about SZA. Her and Summer Walker are that for me. Yes!! I mean Insecure was an answer to Black Women Excellence as well. Shonda Rhimes loves her a black excellent woman lol, every show has at least one, main character or no. Love all your videos so much Kim omg. I come from a black excellence family as well, and am definitely the least accomplished of the bunch and I wrote a book at 16, won awards for academic success and writing, got a full ride to a baby Ivy...the least accomplished. That black excellence thing runs STRONG. That side is also directly descended from enslaved people. The only difference is that they're all light skinned on that side, due to the r*pe of a 13 year old enslaved girl that started our line. But it's crazy how that idea is so pervasive.

[@deezname6417]

I remember getting beaten as a child under 10 years old when I brought home Cs. Not just my by mother, but my Uncle too. Everyone but one (they went, but didn't finish) of my aunts or uncles when to college, and got all the accolades, and were the first black person to do this or that in their community. Yada, yada. But like your family, my grew mother, and her siblings grew up extremely poor; like no electricity, and had to use an outhouse poor. So education was the only way to get better during their time (even then, they were getting second hand books from white people). Education was everything to my grandparents because they couldn't have it, and wanted better for their children. That's Black Excellence to me. So, I still did/and do all the reading of books, and dictionaries, and encyclopedia...But what happens to the black people who fall outside of the "black excellent culture"? I remember being in high school, my AP English class, and this one black girl telling me that I should be ashamed because I'm not trying hard enough, and I should be trying to go to Harvard.

[@Grapejam339]

Isn't "Black excellence" just a reiteration of "Black capitalism" as a concept? This idea that Black people are most worthy when they're putting out labor in a capitalist market that exceeds expectations and the idea that our worthiness via our labor and entrepreneurship is what will bring us peace, safety, and an enjoyable life in the face of white terror and a white supremacist society. If we're keeping it funky, isn't Black Excellence and Black Capitalism not just remixes of Booker T. Washington's philosophy and strategy as expressed in the Atlanta Compromise?

[@yourfavpersuasion9385]

TBH YES IT IS!! I gave up a veryyyyy long time ago.

[@olilumgbalu5653]

Black excellence appears to be a class designation then so it is one of the three major divisions: 1) Class 2) Sex 3) Race not in any particular order but some would say that class is the biggest division while others feel that Patriarchy (Sex) is the biggest division and while still others feel that race is the biggest division.

[@jayceechester]

Saying black excellence started on social media makes me feel old as hell 😂 Kwame Tume talked about the black bourgeoisie as well. .

[@saav1385]

No i was heavy on LinkedIn started college in 2013

[@mvjboj101]

This conversation is grounded in emotions. I sense a concern about the future, imagining a scenario twenty years from now where aspects of Black American culture may no longer be celebrated, and hatred persists or evolves into something else. In such a situation, would we reintegrate those aspects and affirm “Black Excellence is in” once again? This resembles the current discourse on transgender rights, where individuals are affirmed in their identities, yet concerns arise about issues like restroom use and sports participation. This dilemma prompts a reconsideration of societal norms, suggesting that a lack of forward thinking may necessitate shifting perspectives. It’s essential to recognize that these decisions have consequences, and oversimplified thinking may hinder our ability to generate meaningful ideas. Affirmative action only helped Black Women and every other race besides Black American Men. When you say down with the patriarchy you’re also putting Black Men even further down even though economically we are at the lowest level.

[@olilumgbalu5653]

I like the comment by telly_0 in the chat: "I don't like the term "generational wealth". The goal isn't to be rich. It's to create a world where you don't need to be rich to live". Or better yet, a world where no one is significantly richer than anyone else and everyone's needs are adequately met.

[@digthewarmth]

With the Viola Davis example, she has to advocate for herself with her record, like Kim's mom did to get the promotion. She may never be outright offered more than Meryl Streep, but maybe she can say "No, this is how much Meryl Streep is making, and look at my record, so give me more than that." They may call her difficult though and refuse to hire her. I don’t know what the right path forward is for an excellent black person. A lot of it is that the people in charge need an incentive to change the system.

[@irimaoluchi4847]

vulnerability/ relatability is a lucrative commodity.

[@ahanna76]

I’m almost fifty and the outside of chocolate excellence served two purposes. First it stopped me from doing problematic things. Second, my decision to accept the choices made without regret/concern still bothers me. The whole idea of wanting to be excellent has left me apathetic more than anything else. I love cars but I don’t care about our capitalist system that wants to make sure we’re in debt every step of the way.

[@cscreative5460]

55:07 talk yo ish

[@wistfulwriter7]

Lol, the way you talk about your nieces is how I feel about my little sister. Like I GUESS it's FINE if you don't want to work that hard. She strives for an easier life. She's been that way since day 1. Like if you've ever seen that viral video of the little boy by his aunt's tub being like "You have to go to work, again?!" that was her. She is smart and has a high-level degree but she's only 30 and hasn't even started her career and she's tired. Just utterly lacking ambition. She keeps dating rich European men so that they can give her a softer life overseas where there is better balance. And while I don't get it (I would probably combust if I didn't have my work and the joy and fulfillment and security that gives me), I do *try* to respect it. She's not wrong. But it's so hard to break out of the capitalism-driven mindset that she genuinely never subscribed to. She also is pretty sure she doesn't want kids, so that helps a lot!

[@UCanHaveHim]

Be excellent, not black excellent. That's similar to saying, you're smart...............for a black person. Or, "you speak so well".....and we all can fill in the blanks as to what that means.

[@olilumgbalu5653]

Nigerian Women's Support Network created in 2006 in Columbus Ohio.

[@olilumgbalu5653]

There are many worrisome aspects about the concept of black excellence not the least of which is that Megan the Stallion is apparently felt by some to be an example of black excellence - 42:24 minute-mark.

[@caracasaltavista]

This is so so good!!

[@voxomnes9537]

Why is this a question? Haven't we?

[@nickjoy6389]

I don’t think most people have 🤔I feel the Black Excellence sentiment has just been on the lowkey instead of being so explicit! Idk 🤔

[@therealcountryboys]

​@@nickjoy6389To me "Black Excellence" has always been an advertising term for celebrity not one dedicated to "excellent" black people. Nor has it helped with community uplift. With that said i hope its buried so that we can leave great man theory behind and move to a more collective theory that will lead to.collective uplift.

[@aatiti2011]

I never like that term. Same with "Black Girl Magic".

[@nessaearthangel]

Why?

[@lindalawson4296]

I have always used that phrase as a form of affirmation in a world that often tears us down.

[@chocolateprincess8543]

I love that phrase.

[@jhoniikemp]

9:47 Start

[@sadikicole3444]

Fantastic honest discussion

[@Radiantsunshine2025]

Content starts around 12 mins in…

[@khaleesiy.7886]

I’m sorry I’m genuinely confused. I don’t believe black Americans are doing well enough collectively to preach that we should no longer strive for excellence. The culture we’re currently living through is the most un-excellent of us is lead and influencing our community. We have work to do so that we don’t under up a permanent underclass. So I’m confused

[@BrickCity8919]

This!!! You must be from the inner city like i am! I grew up very poor in newark, nj in the 90s/00s so i am right there with you. The idea that over-achievement is somehow even in the top 30 list of issues for black people is completely wild to me. Most of us dont even have the resources to even attempt at excellence let alone harp on it. I think this is a conversation for a certain group of black people who were raised in a certain l tax bracket. Three girls in my seventh grade homeroom class were pregnant because tbh their moms didnt have enough money to be involved in their lives. A lot of our moms were always working and so a lot of us were just completely unsupervised. I think being burdened by excellence is the least of our problems in under served communities filled with black and brown people. Luckily my mom moved us from NJ to GA when i got older and then i had the ability to achieve and go to college. But this is not the case for most black people. Most of us are desperately in need of the opportunity to compete and the resources to get out of whatever we are in

[@caroleappling2007]

Blacks folks have always talked about “ Black Excellence “ way before social media. The wore talking about this in the sixties.

[@korionterivers9995]

I was a freshman at FAMU the day Obama was elected. And I add yes it was a time!! I’ve never had as much hope as I did that day!! It was so many people on the set. They were showing the election on a projector outside!!

[@Kk-fj5tn]

54:43 STUNT AWAY!!!!!!!!

[@BillF0033]

Anyone thinking Black Excellence is equal to wealth and aspiration in a capitalist society has grossly misunderstood the aim. It is moral excellence among/and within Black people. Parks was a seamstress - hardly any staus there - but character and virtue defined her (among many). King also spoke on basic human dignity and self worth (somebodiness) which puts self actualization within reach for everyone regardless of material wealth. Its hardly about money. Youre closer to excellence without much of it honestly

[@SugarCookiePlaysAdoptMe]

Rosa Parks link here - my latino dad was one of her doctors while we living in Detroit during his medical residency.

[@rainicewaller6210]

Go to law school!!

[@user-ku9cx8tg3x]

❤❤❤ I had a blackberry because I was very very very important I was also stupid young Extremely but very very important to my job and the school

[@user-ku9cx8tg3x]

I checked my friends papers and my parents are divorced So it made me fucked up

[@user-ku9cx8tg3x]

My friends needed help writing their papers Everybody can not understand that type of work They needed help

[@user-ku9cx8tg3x]

I don't what you say everyone do that I am not sorry for it

[@mariejane1567]

I have zero social media accounts.....that's freedom to me.....

[@mariejane1567]

Two years of records is too low. Showing your portfolio of work for those type of positions is standard. We do presentations and case studies at my job for those positions and above. I have every last project I worked on as a matter of record because that's what you do. If you need to leave the company and interview for other jobs you need to have your body of work ready. Why does it feel like normal behaviors in other cultures is exceptionalism in black culture? It's like "adulting" almost. Why was term created? Because there was a group of people who didn't recognize that paying bills, working and being responsible is just what you do as an adult. I think if you grew up poor it's a socioeconomic issue not a black issue. I know people who have never been on a plane before or never left my city. How is this possible? Because they lack awareness and education. Or they have never been to a PTO meeting or school event with their parents even though the school notices go home. But they show up to sign the kids up for cheerleading and football.....🤦🏾‍♀️ Tipping when you go out is not black excellence it's just what you do. People dont know you are supposed to tip minimum 20% but once they find out they still complain and want to leave $5 for a $100 bill. I have three engineering degrees and not one time was black excellence mentioned growing up. How about a communication or criminal justice degree doesn't pay??

[@samanthatucker7796]

Youth in the mid to late 90's was pushed this flashy capitalism when we left Tupac for Biggy, and we stopped listening to the message, just wanted to see the opulence.

[@SunshineState-ou7pr]

Stop putting our worth with money!!!!!!!

[@allysacole6961]

Lol are you Black Excellence without a DC Internship bahaha hilarious!

[@newstereo]

Retire black excellence to strive for just excellence