Why We Don’t Change (and what you can do about it) | Dr. Ross Ellenhorn, Being Well

[@MarleyLeMar]

This was a podcast I could both listen to and meditate on. I appreciate how Being Well often presents the scientific as well as the spiritual aspects of the human experience. For me it’s deeply healing.

[@awakening383]

Forrest, I'm so thrilled that you are getting the audience you've worked hard for. 5k views in one day, YAY! That's because you consistently put out quality, engaging material, and once people find you, they stick with you. The greater your audience, the more people you help, so fingers crossed it keeps growing. Thank you for your hard work!

[@Chucanelli]

What a wonderful discussion. Forrest does such a great job guiding and engaging in these interviews, and I’m looking forward to finding more of Ross’s work. Thank you both. 🙏

[@thelouisjohnson]

Dr. Ellenhorn’s work is really brilliant, especially on change and fear of hope - it helped me out A LOT and I’m pleased you’ve had him on the show!

[@jojogomez26]

If this man needed to talk for 5 hours I would watch that video. So enlightening

[@Pathfinder11]

I, somewhat obsessively, listen to self-help content, and I genuinely think this might be the best conversation I’ve ever heard. Both for myself and the struggles I still have but also for my grace and compassion for others who I love who aren’t changing.

[@peacefulisland67]

Whenever I do something that feels too challenging to my system, I automatically start numbing out. So, no matter how many times I experience getting on a bus and going to the right place at the right time, I still get anxious like it's the first time. Great protection when I was 5, not so much now.

[@ataraxigrace822]

I have experienced this. Doing work with co-regulation/somatic therapies helped me. An unconventional approach to ‘somatic therapy’ even helped me. Years ago, I did 5 sessions with a women practicing hands on Reiki, where I lay fully clothed under blankets, while she spent 1.5 hours gently holding/placing her hands over my body (not genitals) helped my nervous system reset - I had had vasovagel syncope since I was a child - and in the 10 years since those 5 hands-on sessions - I have fainted once - very recently when I had a serious injury that required stitches. Btw she came highly recommended - which is the only reason I did it. And I felt safe with her as soon as I met her. I don’t think there is much peer reviewed study on this tbh - but I am assuming it can be associated with the other therapy’s and studies on co-regulation and somatic therapy. I think it worked because it was hands on - I wouldn’t recommend paying for any session where they hold their hands above you for an hour 😅 Atleast - not if you are hoping on doing any bottom up work to support you to feel safe in your body. Studies on yoga and PTSD have been promising- I.e using breathing and movement to relearn safety in your body. I would look at the slower more restorative practices like yin yoga. Basically I am saying, don’t give up. Our bodies and minds want to heal. I wish you well in your healing journey ☺️

[@jennyphilipson686]

I'm a therapist too. I think about this issue all the time and have never heard of it explained so eloquently. Thank you!!

[@Jjjrrrrrhjdj]

Thank you for this insightful interview!!! I need to share one thing: I read and listen to various psychologists who tell me humans are the moat social species. From my observation of horses, they seek safety and direction just as much as humans do. I think any seasoned horse person will agree. We have so much to learn from observing the more-than-human life around us. Humans have lost touch with their surroundings, and so lost touch with themselves IMHO.

[@Liliarthan]

I agree. I envy animals for their ability to follow their instincts to act in ways that meet their own needs, without shame or anticipatory fear of a potentially bad experience. Like watching dogs excitedly greet each other and just start playing the way some very young children can, as if they’ve known each other all their lives eventhough they’ve just met.

[@heidi32500]

​@@LiliarthanDogs. Yep. They don't play rewind per say. They remember but not hold feelings that seem distinctly human like shame and guilt. My dog and I could have had a bad day yesterday. I wake up remembering the recent past and ruminating for a time, slow to wake. My dog? He's on his way out the door for our morning walk without hesitation. Namaste.

[@franceshall3364]

Loved every moment of this dialogue. As you said Forest compassion is the antidote to shame which has been the missing link in my journey.

[@traceinpaper8606]

Ditto..

[@lisbethbird8268]

Yep🐝

[@peacefulisland67]

I plan on listening this this episode repeatedly. so many of my curiosities and questions have been addressed. FYI - AA captured my heart by being a place where I was welcome without having to do anything to prove my worth. The greatest service work is taking a seat; showing up. The only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking. That took years for me to believe. Now, my "home group" is the place that gives me a sense of what safety really feels like. I can even be an ass and not be kicked out. 🤭

[@heidi32500]

Yep. AA saved my brother for 20 years.

[@Panda-pz3em]

This might be the best video ever created about the human mind. I also love how grounded Forrest and Rick are. They take humble pride in providing these great videos . Their egos are right-sized which seems to be an increasingly rare phenomenon. I don’t know why this channel doesn’t have a million subscribers.

[@traceinpaper8606]

I often wonder that too.

[@heidi32500]

I think he will get to the people that need or want to hear the message of the human condition. It's not a bait click podcast, easy fix and fancy. It's more lasting to hear these podcasts. I believe we must share this podcast with our connections. Let them decide the value. Namaste

[@mlouw8218]

Thanks so much! I would have loved another hour 🤓 As someone who’s struggled for many years with a lot of bad habits /addictions (including an eating disorder), and who has friends and family members with addictions and a tendency towards extreme psychological states, this really touched me. I love Ross’s perspective and will definitely be looking up his work 🙏❤️

[@peacefulisland67]

At 57, I'm only beginning to discover how complex my own CPTSD actually is, and also that what I feel in my body (cellular memory included) isn't all my own experience and therefore not all my fault (shortcoming). When Ross talks about the difference between knowing what to do in life and actually applying the knowledge I totally get it. For the most part, I know how I want to behave and what I want to spend my time doing, but when I'm enacting it all, I feel like I'm in freefall. There is no point of reference in my body and mind that's readily accessible. Lately I've been playing with the sense that it's just me feeling out of control. My want for a point of reference for everything is like wanting to be God. This wee human body and mind in this life only has a certain capacity. I can't bring up every memory from every lifetime of my own and others. I have to find trust somehow, which I understandably lack. Thank you for this episode.

[@nicolash.4458]

I think you are missing one important point. You mention knowledge. But it is mostly in the sense of tradition ( socially) and intuition/ habit (individually) that a type of confortable attitude can be understood - you know your station in life and place in society. As he says elsewhere, we are more than ever before faced with the task of being an autonomous happy healthy self-directed individual in fast evolving societies. The lack of knowledge felt is understandable. As it’s ever moving ground. The depression is normal, so is the anxiety if you understand it as tiredness and overstimulation in a dynamic and a complex situation. People with more social support succeed better. This is not because they’ve gotten through the levels or evolved but mostly because they’ve had enough social buffers to never slip too far down.

[@peacefulisland67]

@nicolash.4458 .y tradition is chaos. 😉

[@peacefulisland67]

Personally i elieve its because an individual knows their inherent value from conception. ​@@nicolash.4458

[@rafeeqwarfield9690]

8 minutes in and I’m blown away

[@Jjjrrrrrhjdj]

I would love to change this habit of obsessing on a goal that in reality is a fantasy. It seems as though it's always bubbling under the surface. Dr. Ellenhorn has given me another perspective....🙏

[@Sharon-c6i]

Psychological services are needed more than professionals are admitting to the public.

[@jojogomez26]

I hope he can come back at least once a month .. I'd love to upload his genius to my 🧠

[@Lore788]

Great conversation, on change, hope, faith and mental health. Thank you!🙏😻

[@skeptik-ci5xo]

Wow...this could not be more relevant to what I am going through right now in my life. Fabulous interview, thank you!!

[@darkcreatureinadarkroom1617]

I felt EVERYTHING throughout this conversation. This is gold. I can absolutely see why this is a favorite interview for you Forrest, I felt that too, and I'm going to look up where to get Dr Ross' book. I think his approach is what we as a species need so badly right now, it's the future! Everything points towards it, towards community being at the core of our experiences and existence as a whole. Sending you lots of love 🫶

[@Liliarthan]

I swear you are like an oracle into my mind, Forrest. Because this, like many episodes before, appeared just when I needed it, without me realising that I needed it. I have enjoyed all of the conversations I’ve listened to on your channel, and there have been many, but once in a while someone like Ross appears that shake things up in an unexpected but really helpful way. The other that comes to mind was your conversation with Jacob Ham. Thank you, truly, for the incredible amount of work you put in to make these conversations happen, how gifted you are at listening and steering the conversation with your listeners in mind, and your very helpful summaries at the end of each episode. Thank you also for making these freely available to us. I can’t emphasise enough how much you have helped me on my at times incredibly _hopeless_ feeling journey. I found Ross’ view of our individual mental health changes in a non-pathologising/medicalising way to be very helpful and resonating. I’ve been at this for decades and it wasn’t until very recently that I’ve lessened the amount of shame and criticism I was administering to myself for the condition that I have found myself to be in and unable to ‘get out of’, after I realised that the reactions I have to external events (anxiety, avoidance, pleasure seeking etc) are reasonable reactions to stressful events by someone with my history of trauma and lack of tools in the Wish version of the Inspector Gadget utility belt I ‘inherited’ as a result. I have been repeatedly disappointed at _myself_ for not having ‘fixed’ the ‘broken’ me when treatment after treatment have failed to rid me of my ailments. I have realised (though still working on how to get a memo to my pre-verbal/less ‘cognitive’ parts) that pathologising my current state and being judgemental about not responding to various western psych treatments is actually making things worse by disconnecting me from myself even further. I find the whole notion of ‘self help’ a bit ironic, as I usually associate *help* as something one being provides to another being. We help another person/animal/plant and vice versa, we don’t ’help’ ourselves - that’s just called ‘doing’. But psych self help seems to promote too much self reliance. I think the desire to change needs to come from the self, but the agents of change shouldn’t (couldn’t) solely be sourced from within oneself. Eg when one haven’t experienced unconditional love and acceptance from another, I can’t see how it’s possible to just source that from within (you literally don’t know what that feels like, let alone how to conjure it up). The very thing some of us are lacking, the source of our suffering, is something we can only get from being connected with another being (human or animal etc). I believe that some of us have such profound lack in crucial experiences that we really need to have those experiences at some point in our lives in order to even begin to foster it internally for ourselves. And that’s why I really wish there is more community based mental health healing practices that are outside of the clinic, that doesn’t depend on doctors, pharmaceuticals, diagnostic criteria to meet insurance requirements etc. I always wondered how many of us would find healing around a village bonfire. Perhaps that’s why organised religion is so popular, it’s a community staple that remained after the villages and shared spaces gave way to apartment buildings and office cubicles.

[@lenan1765]

This was my favorite episode in a while! Thank you for saying it like it is. It is way too rare for clinicians/anyone in the therapy space to not shy away from the difficult truth that what people often need is not a magic pill but is actually other peoples' attention, care, and actual lived experiences of success (and the ability to absorb those). Thank you also for saying this about the psychedelic movement--how creepy, unethical, and cult-y it can be, and what really matters is true positive experiences with a therapist/other people. I really appreciated the nuanced views of hope and continued reminders of what seemed like unconditional positive regard that you kept repeating, like recognizing when you're doing something good for yourself even though it may not seem that way. You are so right about the overarching attitude being so focused on what is "wrong" with us and what we need to do to "fix" ourselves causing suffering and hopelessness. We need more people like this around. If I had encountered a therapist who embodied these attitudes rather than the "how do we fix you, tell me about what's wrong, etc" ones, my life would have improved a lot more. One of the biggest reasons depression, etc is so awful is just the drowning negativity that creates its own whirlpools towards the never-ending darkness, and I don't think it is recognized nearly often enough how a real connection with someone else, and community resources in general, can reverse that downward spiral. I did ketamine therapy through Kaiser, which is like, wow, Kaiser does that?! Cool! Sure, but it's what you said--I was told that the medicine will do its job (or not, in which case I had no other options) regardless of if I have anyone to talk to about it. Frankly, I knew that was BS from the beginning. A lot of people go through Kaiser's program and it is sad to think about how we all could have benefited so much more from it if it wasn't just, go in, get an IV, get out.

[@heidi32500]

Wow. I can only describe feeling like "home". Like this is the place to be. I have a library and experienced life of human suffering and wanting out. Or at least easing up on the reins. Mental healt, mental illness, behavioral, cognitive, spiritual education etc is a heavy task to take on. I feel I read a book and it's one part of my recovery. That's just it. Parts. This interview brought my full library to my front door. Welcome home. This insight makes so much sense. Elementary. Its grounding. I am relistening and will get this book. Fabulous interview.

[@eli7527]

Really glad I heard this. It all resonates

[@cozyintherain]

This might be the most important episode I've watched so far!! Thank you so much for this! Bring Dr. Ellenhorn back sometime please!

[@ForrestHanson]

He was fantastic.

[@MiPo3333]

Another big episode. Thanks so much for everything you are doing for us, Forrest 🙏💙

[@suzanne2680]

I’ve never heard anyone directly address this topic. Can’t wait to listen.

[@Golgibaby]

So many gems in this one: the importance of the context and social aspect of behavior change, the paradigm shifting frame understanding that our "broken-ness" was a coping solution, and indeed, trying to break the survivalist perspective of constantly seeing problems...to seeing the possibility of solutions. Thank you both!

[@carolt8073]

Absolutely loved this interview. I took 4 pages of notes and have ordered Dr Ellenhorn's book. I will be coming back to this interview many times as it was packed with insights. Thank you.

[@heidi32500]

It would be nice to have a transcript. The act of taking notes assists our brain in remembering, at least for me. I dare say, this interview is full college credit. Write it down.

[@ViagensGringa]

Yes AND ayahuasca is definitely not easy, or a shortcut. It requires diet, integrity, and behavioral change. Its a dedicates process and can build a deep relationship w plants and their ancient wisdom

[@melissachinnici]

This was SO good!!!

[@drsandhyathumsikumar4479]

Forrest ..you really capture the essence of conversation with great summarizations ! You listen very well indeed ! 🎉

[@Trauma-InformedYogawithConfett]

Incredibly interesting conversation, thank you for introducing me to Dr. E, and Forrest, you're always so thoughtful in your knowledge and preparation- thank you!

[@dmitriikhrustalev2756]

I am so sorry that KZbin doesn't allow you to like a video twice

[@jojogomez26]

Make multiple accounts and come back to like again 😅😊❤

[@Panda-pz3em]

Agree totally

[@movewithmike]

I listened to this twice and Spotify and now a third time on KZbin. Possibly my favourite episode!

[@Zombieyan]

I just loved his book...he is so awesome

[@peacefulisland67]

So interesting. When I went to rehab I know I was resistant because I thought, what if it doesn't work? There'll be nothing left to try. Same for the 12 steps. What if I do them to the best of my ability and it turns out I'm constitutionally incapable?

[@randitruitt1671]

Thank you! That was great!

[@zezezep]

Do you think my doc will show me the door after fifteen years of my ups and downs? As an -aging- aged ADHDer where do i find the energy and resilience to stick with the programme?

[@Daniel-wd8ys]

Wonder-fully Brilliant 🫧✨🌌

[@gs-rc3jz]

I so much needed it today, trying to get rid of long lasting ED behaviors. Thank you a lot❤

[@adamswierczynski]

If a framework for addiction includes being addicted to one's family, it highlights both the desperate need to both cling to and abandon the framework. Why do paradigms resist changing when it is so obvious they are harmful? Not only does "being addicted" to one's family or wife cheapen emotional intimacy, but it is the very root of the need to escape in the first place: low individual differentiation. High differentiation is a protective factor from compulsive escapes of any form. Being able to disidentify from distress is the core of "curing" "addiction".

[@AbdullahSediqi23]

Getting a progressive injury like posterior tibial tendonopathy makes you feel hopeless. You get it through being active and you are effectively punished by having to take months off running and possibly requires surgery

[@Dobermanmomma]

This guy puts most therapists to shame by speaking truth.

[@verthandijal]

⭐

[@peacefulisland67]

Can we clear up what "enjoy" means here? There's a difference between joy and love, etc., and trying to fill empty spaces. I've never "loved" chaos. I've misapprehended what love means and only seek chaos as comfort by familiarity. 😑

[@heidi32500]

Helpful question. I think to my past for some answers. My favorite memories from childhood which are few involve my country grandfathers grape orchard. Tidy rows of grape vines on large wooden stakes in a hot summer sun. Waking those rows that were as tall as my 8 year old self (no video electronics in the 1960's). Kids lived outside when not eating or sleeping. The taste of a ripe grape, the juice so refreshing, brought me joy. Simple joy. Just for me. Fast forward 6 decades and I plant a grape vine in my backyard from love. Not joy. Love for me has a history. Joy is in the moment. Namaste.

[@markd7933]

What to do then when the person becomes addicted to validation? And “self-help” therapies they see online on (podcasts lol), and also dialogue only goes so far. Eventually you talk so much the person may become self obsessed and not ever actually do anything. Not self obsessed in a negative or arrogant/conceited way but only capable of dealing with their own dialogue in a back and forth way. Judging the judging. Being rigid about not being rigid. I would think that there tons that can’t afford professional help have to go in these online self help places only to end up getting frozen with the over abundance of information. Not to mention the predatory algorithms that know everything that’s wrong with you (supposedly). So for me the first point of having faith in yourself hit hard.

[@lisbethbird8268]

Self validate? I feel you. I think your insight & awareness *will* change you, and mine will change me. Today I am having these ideas- Self love and acceptance is the place to start. No matter what the challenges. Then instead of comparing ourselves to, and seeking validation from others; or always trying to prove ourselves to others- who often don't grasp the realities of our own lives, we learn to prove ourselves to ourselves. Value every single tiny step. Best regards💚

[@eli7527]

8:15💡

[@iw9338]

Perhaps recovering needs a multifaceted approach, just a thought 💬💬❓

[@eli7527]

15:50💡

[@eli7527]

30:15💡