Four Against Darkness - Deep Dive Part 1 - Introduction

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[@astronomicafilms]

Love love LOVE Four Against Darkness. Last March when quarantine hit and our D&D group went on hiatus, my wife and I bought all the books available and had a blast playing. It really did its job as the quick and easy lite RPG we needed to get through a tough time.

[@TheDungeonDive]

It’s a great game.

[@Enroth186]

I think it is a great goal to reach the "4 against the abyss" / "4 against the netherworld" content (min levels 5/6). First you could either play some random scenarios with the "base book" or scripted mini campaigns for level 1 characters ("Caves of the Kobold Slave-Masters" and "Dark Waters"). Once you reach level 3, you can either do advanced random scenarios with the "Caverns of Chaos" content or another scripted campaign "The three Rings". If you reach level 5/6 you can play the abyss or netherworld up to level 9. If all or most of your beloved party members die, you can transfer to the "breaches of the bone belfry" which lets you use your dead characters in a new campaign/setting. There are a lot of cool options to explore, even without fan made content!

[@d.b.gaston665]

The designer of the game just started a new Ganesha Games Patreon with new content for Four Against Darkness, he started the Patreon after having to leave Ukraine to try to rebuild his business.

[@sauronguitar]

This is gonna be a really good series!! We need more minimalistics Dungeon Crawler games like this one.

[@TheDungeonDive]

I agree. Especially ones like this with lots of options and supplements if you want them.

[@phaedruslive]

@@TheDungeonDive I'd go all in if he offered all of the core stuff in a set. (You mentioning the second edition makes me think that may actually happen)

[@apokai]

So true!

[@Joshuadmathews]

Thanks Dungeon Dive for making 4AD videos. I also like your mentioning of paying particular interest to Andrea's art for the game! I myself just recently got these, but the card decks on drivethrucards are really worth the pick up. It took me till actually playing it to figure it out, but instead of rolling dice you simply draw enough cards until your encounter is resolved. When your deck runs out, then you reshuffle it. There is also a monster card set which adds all new vermin, minions, boss, and weird monsters that can be swapped out from the base game tables (perhaps they could be used for level 2 dungeons before being ready for Fiendish Foes). Also missing from your list is Four Against Titans, Four Against Netherworld, which kind of play like a boardgame because of the overland traveling, and Four Against the Old Ones and Mars, which are two spin off systems that set the game in Cthulhu universe or in a 1950s sci-fi movie. Andrea has mentioned that some of his earliest work was clay animation and that Ray Harryhausen's work was some inspiration for his art in the Titans book. Some complain of the procedural/repetitive nature of the game, or the lack of a narrative for the vanilla game. Therefore it might be good to demonstrate how Minions, Twisted Dungeons, and the similar Boss Monster tables in Warlike Woes can be used in concert to add narrative and verity to the dungeons. Likewise, how the character creation options in Wayfarers can help create more of roleplaying/narrative aspect for creating characters (milestones very much can be used as the story thread and seed to launch off your party's overall campaign). Or how to interweave the 6 missions from Caverns of Chaos or Abyss to create a campaign. An underused mechanic that is pretty novel is the monster reaction tables. Now as written, your party has the advantage by not rolling the reactions, but I have found that when DMing 4AD the reaction are the best DM resource for running on the fly no prep encounters. I've never put this to paper but I would love to expand reaction tables, maybe by making them room specific? Like if your dungeon was in a haunted mansion and each room type (kitchen, dinning room, library, ect) had its own reaction table to roll on matching the monster's reaction (I would imagine that a bribe in a kitchen versus one in a hidden surgery room might narratively look very different). Right now that is just a brainstorm, but it might be worthwhile exploring just what really one can do with reactions to help bring some more variety and roleplay to the game instead of just hack and slashing monsters. Perhaps house ruling that only fight to the death reactions result in monsters surprising the party and attacking first. This might also help the game feel even more like choose your own adventure because in that way you never know what to expect when running into goblins. If interested, I did write my own fan supplement for Caves of the Kobold Slave Masters where I converted it back into a game book of randomized tables to be used instead of the ones in the core book. Let me know and I can share it.

[@drcfungis2045]

Is your supplement posted on bbg. I am writing an adventure that is a choose you own way with different results. It is in the beginning stages. You start of solo and pick up the other adventurers on the way. Give a shout back , ty.

[@Joshuadmathews]

@@drcfungis2045 It is on the facebook page, but here is the link to the doc docs.google.com/document/d/1P3IwW3Cflsm2R1s5AaKmkb5ott3cXpN_AKEwcg0T2hM/edit?usp=sharing You still need Caves of the Kobold Slave Master to play. To get the most usage out of this would be if one made a copy of mine and had a pdf of Kobold, then you can simply copy and paste the information from Kobold into these tables. I did the same for the fan supplements Deep Mines and Village of Despair. The intention was that when playing level 1-2 adventures one would roll a D4 to determine which contents table to roll: 1) Core, 2) Kobold, 3) Deep Mines, 4) Despair I was halfway through Dark Waters doing the same but could never really figure that one out when it come to combing the underwater tables. But the greater work I was working on was a D66 dungeon where you would have 6 separate contents tables to roll on for level 1 and 2 dungeons, 6 level 3-4 dungeon tables, and 6 expert level tables. I have played several iterations of combining the core book, kobolds, despair, and dark caves, all of which turned out really fun and each one turned out completely different than the rest. here is my deep mine additions: docs.google.com/document/d/1JNvbdgnAp5FFe4DPWEJQ0gTR35DbuhrqitSQiNjAMj4/edit?usp=sharing here is my despair additions: docs.google.com/document/d/1Nlor90-VES_iPFTtdrUC5Tyn9n4enV6CI3CSE_kbOCw/edit?usp=sharing

[@thekinginyellow7029]

Really excited for this series! Never heard of this line of books myself, but I'll definitely have to give it a look. Best of luck with jury duty. It's important that you don't overstress yourself.

[@apokai]

Wow! I just discover this game 2 days ago, SO GLAD I found these recent videos! Thank you very much for taking the time to do this!

[@TheDungeonDive]

Sure thing!

[@freddaniel5099]

Just making my way through your catalog of vids. I am a fan of Four Against Darkness would say this is a great introduction to the game line. I agree, the book's art is charming and inspiring.

[@crushingit5128]

The game really shines once you get past the core book. I wish they release a 2nd edition with some of the additional content and rules baked into the core game.

[@TheDungeonDive]

I agree. I’d like to see a more comprehensive core book.

[@ChrisIsmael]

Do you have a recommendation on what to try next after the core book?

[@TheDungeonDive]

I’ll talk about that soon in the next video.

[@HighbridgeD]

@@TheDungeonDive It's coming. Andrea has mentioned recently on the official FB page that a revised second edition should be available for purchase by Christmas of this year. Softcover, Hardcover and PDF versions will all be available.

[@penachoazteca]

You have my attention now. I really love 4AD it's super fun and simple and very interesting

[@jakobzgela]

Stoked. Love the dungeon dive deep dives!

[@TheDungeonDive]

Thanks! Hope it’s a good one. :)

[@fasthippy]

This is my first intro to this game. Super excited!!

[@lilianempls]

I'm really looking forward to this!

[@blackraptor311]

Good luck on jury duty. We will wait till all that is over for more stuff if needed.

[@sammy3d827]

Great game! I have several of the adventures for 4AD but have not played in a while. Your series is inspiring me to dive in again. Poetic Platitudes of the Potato People sounds intriguing. You can play as a Potatomancer in Kartoffelheim!

[@dustinfreund5196]

Wow... i cannot believe how much additional content there is to the core game. I had no idea! I can't imagine how much work went into all this!

[@TheDungeonDive]

There’s SO MUCH!

[@drcfungis2045]

Dan nice review, This game is great. I have had this with 10 of the books sitting around for awhile myself and started playing hard with my kids last week. Reviewing all the levels and books is a great idea, well needed for this game. I am waiting for beast guide myself. Dan get them all. The cost of these on pdf and books are nothing compared to other games. Remember to order from his site he makes a little more on the books. I have also picked up the cards from Drivethru Cards. There are some books that you missed, That Joshua mentioned below. Can not wait to watch all. So many options on all the content makes this game a top 5 . I do have to say that d100 by Martin Knight is also another good one. Keep up the excellent work. enjoy your channel.

[@kickthesky]

This is a great overview for someone new (like me) looking at all of the daunting amount of stuff out there for this game. You earned a sub!

[@TheDungeonDive]

There is an overwhelming number of supplements for this game! Thanks.

[@SwordAgainstChaos]

@@TheDungeonDive it’s almost like there’s too much.

[@JevousGaming]

Perfect timing! Just ordered 4AD and Alone Against Fear.

[@TheDungeonDive]

Nice! Great games. And so affordable!

[@brads2041]

My first game was a TPK. Gremlins stole all party weps. I retreated towards an armory but rolled a wandering monster, a chaos lord. The room that occurred in had no doors towards the armory so I chose? not to withdraw (and continue to wander a dungeon unarmed). Yikes

[@stephenfarrell8587]

Really good idea. Ground-up detail for people like me who look up in surprise discovering 4AD exists and will enjoy watching this avidly with an eye on the upcoming revised 2nd edition. Cheers

[@TheDungeonDive]

I'm really looking forward to 2nd edition. I hope it's better organized.

[@zhaoyun6859]

Oooh yes. One of my favourite games and the best dungeon crawl reviewer...this is going to be good!

[@TheDungeonDive]

Hope you enjoy it!

[@sunduncestudios5124]

Thank you for doing this video. Because of your work, I will be buy me some expansions.

[@TheDungeonDive]

Great! I’ll be continuing the series soon.

[@jonwooldridge3766]

I am looking forward to this series. I really enjoy this game. One book I didn't see was "Lost Temple of Qaara."

[@TheDungeonDive]

Oh wow! that one sounds cool. Definitely on my list to purchase. Thanks!

[@davidagornall]

Looking forward to this series. I myself have just picked it up for the same reasons as yourself.

[@TheDungeonDive]

Nice! What all did you pick up?

[@davidagornall]

@@TheDungeonDive Core book and Caves of the Kobold Slave-Masters. Have some fan-made stuff. Good community on Facebook also. Loved your series on Warhammer Quest as I am such a fan.

[@stevebillups9238]

Digressions of the Devouring Dead has a ton of content. I like the dark theme, but the new character class abilities are written in paragraphs, rather than easy to digest bullet points so it's not very easy to keep track of them. I have several books, but have only played a couple times so far. It seems like some of the classes don't have much to them and some of them are very detailed with an almost exhausting amount of rules to account for. Will be interested to see your take on this one. I have enjoyed it so far.

[@thewise3551]

Just ordered this. Looks good.

[@JamesJohnson-tj9pv]

Daniel you do a great job reviewing this game, think I'm picking it up based largely on your review, and Rob's at table top world. Really liked your warhammer quest series, and think I may have mentioned it to you in the past.

[@TheDungeonDive]

Thank you!

[@AuthoritativeNewsNetwork]

Just discovered this and d100. Thank you. 🥰🥰

[@GeekGamers01]

Looking forward to this. I've been playing the core rule book and just downloaded a fan-made thing. If that turns out to be good, I'll post what it is. Like you, I've got the head space for light things now and that's about it.

[@TheDungeonDive]

I'll be interested to see how you compare it to D100D.

[@GeekGamers01]

@@TheDungeonDive I think I did a comparison in the 4AD vid I made... hard to remember at this point tho I'd say that for depth d100 Dungeon wins out tho it is harder to get to the table & the apparatus of making and developing a character can be an uphill climb. That said, overall 4AD is more beer & pretzels wheres d100 is more of an RPG experience (for me). On d100 I still wish Martin would compile ALL the rules into one book.. .that's the biggest downside there for me right now.

[@TheDungeonDive]

Pretty sure I agree with this.

[@Naruga]

Love 4AD, I ended up hacking it and Micro Chapbook stuff and oracle stuff together to create more story and world setting based around the dungeons I enter. Loads of fun.

[@Naruga]

I also quite like Courtship of the Flower Demons as we don't get stuff like that much.

[@sentino68]

What do you mean “hacking it”?

[@Naruga]

@@sentino68 just mixing together bits from different systems.

[@Alittlefruitgoesalongway]

Thanks for the video! I look forward to this series. Also, not meaning to get into political discussion or any of that, I just wanted to say that at least one way to look at jury duty, is that for that case you get to have your vote and your opinion represented in the outcome. I know it can still be a tiring thing to need to go to though, and potentially mentally taxing as well, but I hope that it isn't too bad and just wanted to try and bring a positive thought, to make the best of it.

[@jameskeegan3108]

Just picked up fiend folio twist dungeons and minions. Had them for about a week. Pdf. Some good things there already to add on for sure !! One thing leveling seems really fast for levels 1-3. Almost too fast.

[@joelschnee6855]

Looking forward to this deep dive Daniel. I have 4AD, but have yet to try it. Got very into D100 Dungeon. They seem similar except for the single adventurer (D100) vs party (4AD). Obvious question as you dig into this one, is maybe a few words on how it compares for you. Again, LOVE the channel and thanks.

[@TheDungeonDive]

Thanks! I will definitely be comparing those two games as we go.

[@goodman7097]

Ya, Don't forget 4 Against Mars. I have the book but haven't gotten into it. I like theme alot. I hope they come out with 4 Against Zombies like a walking dead post apocalyptic vibe.

[@Enroth186]

have you seen "4 Against Ragnarok", "4 Against the Titans", "4 Against the Great Old Ones"? If you like zombies maybe have a look at the "Alone against fear" spin-off which has a survival horror theme.

[@gentlemansbusa2985]

Black and white art thru the book is fantastic.. who wver did that cover eish...

[@ExtraLeben]

IAM IN !! 😎

[@perutherford]

Love this series! You mentioned Ganesha Games had a catalog. I can't find it...can you point it out please?

[@TheDungeonDive]

Thanks! It's in the files section at the 4AD FB group. facebook.com/groups/350474872132324/files

[@IAcePTI]

I was thinking about buying this game but there are so many stuff that i ended buying D100 Dungeon instead. I will love to know to what are the books that add more options to do stuff. Im still interested in this game and knowing that a secound Edition will came Out im waiting for that

[@blamp666]

Hi there, great review! Were did you get that cheat sheet with the dungeon shapes? Thanks!

[@nydaloth]

The only thing that I hate about 4AD is the XP roll. I have a wizard that have failed the roll several times and is still lv1. 😞

[@TheDungeonDive]

Yeah. It can be harsh. I’m thinking of a house rule to eliminate the issue you’re experiencing.

[@katlero28]

Where did you get the cheat sheet and character sheets!? Those look great and exactly the kind of thing I’ve been searching for to up my 4AD games!

[@TheDungeonDive]

BGG.

[@JimBuschman]

Also, check out The Lantern. Its a zine made by the creator for 4AD. There are two issues out so far

[@TheDungeonDive]

Yeah! Just ordered a bundle of the two issues and some other things.

[@JimBuschman]

@@TheDungeonDive also I just realize i wrote the wrong name, fixed it haha

[@TheDungeonDive]

I knew what you were talking about. :)

[@memevarg2530]

Hey! It's pronounced Andr-a-uh Sphee-lee-go-e Btw great dive!

[@klauswigsmith]

Just getting into this game, so looking forward to watching the rest of your series on it. Quick question...where's you get those cheat sheets? They look super handy!

[@TheDungeonDive]

Board Game Geek.

[@klauswigsmith]

@@TheDungeonDive Thanks!

[@batmansmk]

I would like some other point of view on player’s agency in 4AD. I played the core book and didn’t feel like I had any particular influence on the game, it being through the development of my characters or the combat or the path I took in the dungeon. Is there any extension that makes the game part of 4AD a bit more tactical? Thanks!

[@TheDungeonDive]

Not really that kind a game. It’s a roll the dice and see what happens game. Player agency comes in the forms of press your luck and resource management.

[@susanwells2612]

I just discovered 4AD this week, and am kind of obsessed :-) Where did you get your printout of all of the dungeon shapes on one piece of paper? That would be so handy!

[@TheDungeonDive]

Nice! Have fun. :) I got those from the files section on BGG. boardgamegeek.com/filepage/164130/4ad-comprehensive-playsheets-grids-characters-enco

[@susanwells2612]

@@TheDungeonDive Awesome! Thanks so much :-D

[@thomasmcdonnell2629]

Where do you get your character sheets and encounter sheets? Also the room chart printout.

[@TheDungeonDive]

Board Game Geek.

[@miguelsalgueiro7429]

Hi! The core game book is the only one that will be revised? Last saturday I order a softcopy but after see your video I will cancel and wait for the 2nd.

[@TheDungeonDive]

As far as I know yes.

[@miguelsalgueiro7429]

@@TheDungeonDive than you! I will wait for the 2nd. Until there I will watching this series of videos.

[@speedyplays2006]

How can I get those player aid sheeets? I have been looking everywhere and can't seem to find them. Any suggestions?

[@TheDungeonDive]

BGG.

[@speedyplays2006]

@@TheDungeonDive Thanks man! Appreciate it a bunch!

[@simonemarini8773]

Watching this 2 years after publication... great video! I would like to help you with the name of the author: surname is pronounced sfee-lee-goy.

[@TheDungeonDive]

Yep! Thanks. Other people already commented on that. :)

[@simonemarini8773]

@@TheDungeonDive yeah I commented too soon! I am watching the whole series and you got it right pretty quickly

[@R3s1d3ntAl13n]

I’s there a multiplayer module for this or a similar game that supports multiple players ?

[@TheDungeonDive]

Similar games for multiplayer would be basic D&D or any old school RPG that focuses on dungeon crawling.

[@davida4697]

love that character sheet. can you link to some of the resources you're using? thanks!

[@TheDungeonDive]

Yes. I will.

[@jameskeegan3108]

Overland adventures? Can't find it. I checked Amazon and Drive-thru Rpg. Where did you buy it?

[@TheDungeonDive]

It’s a fan made supplement. It’s on the 4AD Guild on Facebook.

[@jameskeegan3108]

@@TheDungeonDive thanks !!!

[@jameskeegan3108]

House rules rule :) Especially for your beginning characters. I like starting my new characters with a class ability kinda based on the expert abilities found in 4AA. Never have liked the -1on light weapons done away with that. I just start all the bases weapons as a standard weapon no +/- for them. funny I can't get that line out through my comment.

[@Irishguard77]

nice cheat sheets! where can I find those?

[@TheDungeonDive]

BGG

[@JimBuschman]

I like this game, but struggle a little bit with how rules and monsters are spread out over multiple books which tends to make it a little overwhelming and unwieldy for me.

[@TheDungeonDive]

It’s true. The rule book is poorly organized and I really wish there was a comprehensive book that contained more.

[@ladyoflosttimes]

I struggle with that to but i got the pdf of this game on drivethrurpg so i just have the books in a binder and ordered the pages how I wanted them like all the characters from all of them together ect. And I c&p other rules on to a word doc to group other things.

[@JimBuschman]

Yeah i should probably go about creating my own "book" that way too.

[@glenndean6]

Is this just a port of the 1E DMG?

[@TheDungeonDive]

No.