Four Against Darkness - Deep Dive Part 2 - Base Game review

Join the Dungeon Dive Patreon - Thanks for the support!
/ thedungeondive

[@Naruga]

I agree about the book layout. I bought Alone Against Fear recently and that books had the same trouble as well as a bunch of editing errors. Hopefully the revised edition fixes this issue as they are both terrific little games and it is a shame if the layout would turn people away.

[@Joshuadmathews]

Great idea to compare Wayfarers and Concise Collection of Classes. Most of the classes are cousin equivalents to one another made by two separate authors (Marksmen v Wood Elf, Lutin v Gnome, Monk v Martial Mystic, Ogre v Troll). And fyi the Druid cousin class shows up in Flower Demons and is the Conservationist. This is kind of cool as you can sort of see final 4 heroes in the core book as also being cousin classes, or Yin and Yang, to the traditional 4 (Warrior v Barbarian, Rogue v Halfling, Wizard v Elf, Cleric v Dwarf). Wayfarers is also a companion class and spell book to Crucible of Classic Critters (which was inspired by the 3 Rings supplement and AD&D's Wilderness monsters book). The spells in CCC were meant to be a gag (white titles are filled with odd bits of humor) therefore with Wayfarers you can swap out CCC's wilderness spells with Wayfarers and treat them as the official Wilderness spell list (as most are geared to help with being in a forest adventure to begin with). What I love doing is making the spell lists dungeon or level specific. So the Core 6 spells can only be found in L1 dungeons or dungeons using the Core book. Wayfarers spells could be considered L2 spells which are found in level 2 dungeons. The 8 Fire Spells found in the back of Heart of Lizard can be found in Fiendish Foes Level 3 dungeon, Cavern's of Chaos' chaos spells for Level 4 dungeons, and Expert Spells can only be found in the Abyss. You can also run the game as a rougelite and stack all the dungeons on top of each other (Defeating the boss monster leads to a staircase leading the lower level) and simply use new tables for each level down your party goes.

[@Joshuadmathews]

Forgot to mention! My copy of Zine 2 just came in the mail. It is rife with several town campaign adventures and campaign settings. And if you get the new 4AD Screen Adventure: Goblin Village Raid, that is an additional non-dungeon adventure setting. Zine 1 looks to be more about underground themed adventures for first time parties and some expert level prewritten adventures, and Zine 2 looks to be more overland adventures and settings. Ones a complete setting to get adventurers from level 1 to 4, one is an fortress town adventure taken over by monsters for expert level players, and one adventure is a dungeon that take place within a giant tree!

[@crushingit5128]

I always prefer book over PDF. But given the amount of tables that each supplement adds, I found it's better to print out in pdf, so you can combine the roll tables into a single section within a 3 ring binder. This is the one thing I hope v2.0 fixes. Combine the best tables into a single source.

[@TheDungeonDive]

Yeah - I agree that some comprehensive collections of tables would be great. I know they're working on a huge collection of vermin, minions, and bosses.

[@Gamertagchipmonk]

I bought this book after watching one of your videos last year. It’s so good about explaining the mechanics of the game but I will admit it lacks so much in structure and how to “start”. Thank you for sharing this

[@drcfungis2045]

Agree 100% they need class book/ monster book. This game is excellent in its play an ease of making your own game . Keep up the reviews of all the books. Josh Mathews ,below has good explanations of the different books. You will find out. All that watch , will see what this game offers and yes he is planning up to level 20. Yes D-100 by martin Knight is excellent also.

[@phaedruslive]

If it were organized in a three book set like OSE it'd be fantastic. Particularly if it offered a lot of the supplemental classes/stories/races/etc.

[@davidagornall]

A good opening to the series. Its the core rules and yes not as slick as some of the big players but man it does actually work so well. A very small team also.

[@timothysmith6549]

Great video and run through. I recently got into 4AD and absolutely love it. I played AD&D back in the 80s but drifted away to historical wargames. By chance I stumbled upon 4AD not long ago and I'm back dungeon crawling again. This system really starts to shine once you get some of the expansions, and for me it has that wonderful toolbox feeling that 1E AD&D had where you have a structure but it's up to you to pad out and create the world your characters are in. I've got D100 too but I like 4AD way more and I think that's probably due to growing up where one of the important things was you were adventuring as a party not a solo character. Also the fact that D100 is really a story generator - everything is randomised. I know people love it but for me, 4AD is more rewarding and engaging. 4AD is just a terrifically fun game and especially for those old school players who were playing D&D/AD&D back in the 80s. It allows you to capture all that feeling and fun in a solo format. Thanks once again for the great video overview!

[@TheDungeonDive]

Sure thing! Welcome back to the dungeon. :). With D100D, I do recommend trying it with the world builder expansion at some point.

[@timothysmith6549]

@@TheDungeonDive Thanks for the suggestion! I'll give D100 another go but I have to admit that I prefer 4AD. It just feels more like old school D&D to me, and I love the elegance and simplicity of the system plus you have a party of characters with different skills and abilities. For me it's like playing a simpler version of AD&D/D&D but in a solo form. I'm really enjoying your channel by the way and have just subscribed ;-)

[@TheDungeonDive]

I agree that 4AD feels more like old school D&D. No doubt!

[@Sasquatchsketcher]

Great video! Because I find the book so confusing, I was hoping you would show the steps and sequence of gameplay. Even looking at the handy chart of gameplay it gets confusing.

[@Ratstail91]

I just realized I own a printer in it's box... and I've got a ream of paper... and a stapler... and I bought the PDF years ago. XD

[@madddog6790]

Picked this up a while back, but haven't messed with it yet.

[@glenndoren7922]

This series has motivated me to revisit 4AD with some of the newer supplements. And in the process, I've also taken a look at the latest version of Notability on the iPad for mapping. Gotta say--the latest tools on there (e.g. line/shape tools built-in) make mapping so quick and clean (using their graph paper background). Highly recommended for those with an iPad and Apple Pencil.

[@TheDungeonDive]

Interesting! I lack those tech tools but that sounds cool.

[@glenndoren7922]

@@TheDungeonDive Ohhh you're in for an addictive treat if you check it out. Just as mapping with pencil and paper can be relaxing and addictive, doodling/drawing/mapping in Notability on an iPad/Pencil can suck up serious time. Notability has recently started posting on youtube--can check out some videos there. Plus, it's my goto app for pdfs and notetaking--all of my 4AD pdfs are on there.

[@drunkendelver1966]

"Impulse-buy price" is exactly how I would describe this game. I ordered the core book on a whim a few months ago, and my 4AD collection just keeps growing. The basic rules do feel very bare bones, but the more supplements I get, the more potential I see in this game. Are there any supplements in particular that you think bring the game up from being a basic solitaire dungeon game to being more of an actual RPG system in its own right?

[@fightingfortruth9806]

I like this, but I think I already have it in the AD&D DMG Appendix.

[@mr.whales3600]

Of course we will need a d100 dungeon deep dive series at some point.😉

[@TheDungeonDive]

Already have two videos on it. :)

[@mr.whales3600]

@@TheDungeonDive oh come on 2 vids isn't a deep dive lol. Just joking man, keep up the great work. By far my favorite subscription on youtube

[@TheDungeonDive]

There will be more for D100. :)

[@Enroth186]

Lady in white also gives out quests

[@TheDungeonDive]

AH, cool. Thanks!

[@davedogge2280]

meant to be the top or one of the top solo RPGs almost pulled the trigger on this several times.

[@Naruga]

I recommend heavily. It is such a simple old school feel system that makes it very easy to add your own stuff or adapt osr material to it to give it more depth, story etc. Also the expansion books really add so much to the game that you won't want to play the standard book only after.

[@blackmoonrising]

I'd be interested to hear some brief thoughts on how this game compares with D100 Dungeon if you've played that one as well.

[@blackmoonrising]

@@defleshedbuttocks You're right, it definitely seems like a smaller box version of Xia. The price is a bit of a gut punch though. If you're going to spend around $80 (or more for the additional upgrade pack), you might as well just spring for Xia since you're in the same price range at that point.

[@Alittlefruitgoesalongway]

You should check his backlog of videos. I'm pretty sure he did several videos on D100 dungeon, if not dozens.

[@irishdude1988]

L

[@naughtscrossstitches]

the art is gorgeous but it's definitely not sized right for the pages! Which I do find frustrating. It makes it hard to read around it. I'm kinda stuck myself in how to proceed because I've started some stuff and what I've found is I printed off some good pocket books that help but I'm still a little confused.

[@JimBuschman]

Great video! Where did you find information on a second edition of the book?

[@TheDungeonDive]

It’s in the recent catalog from the publisher.

[@DannyD_GoF]

Did a second edition ever come out? I can't find anything I line apart from the first edition.

[@TheDungeonDive]

Not yet.

[@DannyD_GoF]

@@TheDungeonDive Thanks. I'm thinking.of getting into 4AD and these videos have been a great help to know where to start. Great work 😊👍🏻

[@brianjohnson1985]

Grey board gamer has really good playthrough videos

[@TheDungeonDive]

Yeah! There are quite a few really good let's play videos for 4AD.

[@goodlookingcorpse]

I think this would benefit from a choose your own adventure or flowchart style. Do this, then do this, then...

[@TheDungeonDive]

There are CYOA supplements. We will take a look at some soon.

[@Sageofthedustypage]

I think the dungeon creation method is awesome very useful for other games such as frostgrave solo. What is the site for printed tables you are using?

[@TheDungeonDive]

It’s a collection of files from Board Game Geek.

[@Enroth186]

@09:00 You found another fountain? You can only find one fountain per dungeon!

[@TheDungeonDive]

Don't tell me what I can find in my dungeons! :P

[@jonwooldridge3766]

Where are you buying your paperbacks from? Great video, though I enjoy the "lite" game play.

[@TheDungeonDive]

Amazon and Lulu.

[@jonwooldridge3766]

@@TheDungeonDive I use Amazon as well, but the selection is limited. I'll try Lulu next. Thank you.

[@HighbridgeD]

Lulu offers the hardcover versions of the titles as well. Great paper quality, highly recommended.

[@jonwooldridge3766]

@@HighbridgeD Thanks! I placed an order with Lulu. I am anxious to see how the quality of the paperbacks come out.

[@R3s1d3ntAl13n]

What would you recommend as the first two or three books to get ? Thanks

[@TheDungeonDive]

Core rules with twisted dungeons and twisted minions.

[@Scubasgamecorner]

Now that you have played these a good amount , which would you say is better overall …. This or D100 Dungeon?

[@TheDungeonDive]

I like them both equally.

[@Scubasgamecorner]

@@TheDungeonDive Hahaha, I get that. my issue is all this stuff looks so fun and amazing but I can’t have them all 😃

[@TheDungeonDive]

Do you want to control a party, or a single hero? If you want a single hero, get D100D. Do you want the options of many dozens of expansions each offering different things? Get 4AD. Do you want a connecting world to create and explore between dungeons? Get D100D.

[@harringtonmartin]

D100 Dungeon allows group play and the ability to control a party, by using the Adventurer's Companion (the very first expansion book) so it's not entirely accurate to say one is a solo character and the other is a party of characters. I actually prefer D100 Dungeon with 4 or 5 characters played solo rather than 1. And 4AD has rules for a single character or less than 4, too. So, they're really only separated by their rule sets and style of play.

[@daviddschool]

where did you get the character sheet and the dungeon and room building table sheet?

[@TheDungeonDive]

Board Game Geek.

[@MrNurglis]

Hi I’m watching this in 2022 but I still can’t see and 2nd edition available… any news on that?

[@TheDungeonDive]

Nope. No new info.

[@davidsanchez-bu9un]

Is the system as simple as heroquest?

[@TheDungeonDive]

I don't think so. Maybe 1-2 steps up, especially once you start adding in all the supplements.

[@quench100]

Say "Silly Boy". Now stick an "f" before the "i" and replace the "b" with a "g", and you've got the pronunciation 😜

[@TheDungeonDive]

Yes! I love it. :) That's perfect.

[@danjohnson887]

When i clicked like it went to 666...

[@TheDungeonDive]

Nice!

[@marceloaam]

Edit: spoiler ahead.... The White lady (something like that) sends you in a quest too.

[@raxacor]

I’m trying this in 2024 and having a hard time, the rule book is a jumbled mess! Nothing tells me what I’m actually doing. You need an idea of how this type of game actually works to stand any chance of learning from this book, not very friendly to first time players like myself. D100 Dungeon does a much better job.

[@eldritchmorgasm4018]

🤔 Sexual stuff!? 😏 Hmm...

[@TheDungeonDive]

Lol. :)