Understanding Delphi 'unspent bullet' evidence

[@BarbaraTown010]

Outstanding information from attorney and firearms expert, Guy Relford. As always.

[@AllEyesOnDelphi]

The examiner compared the unspent cartridge to a *fired* bullet what are we even doing here?? The examiner used extraction markings as a single point of comparison. Calling it a match is unserious and reckless.

[@guitarista67]

Exactly.

[@JayBee-cr8jm]

Also guns leave marks when ejecting cartridges. This is proof he was there.

[@AllEyesOnDelphi]

@@JayBee-cr8jm no, it’s not.

[@JayBee-cr8jm]

@@AllEyesOnDelphi Yes, it is. We just heard that it is.

[@UncleKennysPlace]

​@@AllEyesOnDelphi If the striations in the extraction marks match (assuming the comparison is properly done), it means either the suspect's gun, or one made very, very, very, very close to it on the production line, ejected the cartridge. It's not definitive, but it's suggestive. Add that to the suspect having this brand of cartridges in his house, and it's decent circumstantial evidence. With RA admittedly being in that park, on that day, it becomes a bit stronger. But then again, have RA's attorneys gotten the sales records for all of those guns close by in serial number? Maybe they did, and they were sold at distant places. But if not, they may be incompetent.

[@lovetohuntlovetohunt6241]

We always heard an "unspent round" ! 🤔

[@freecheese4143]

So it hasn't been fired or attempted to be then no hammer or rifling marks. Much less specific.

[@guitarista67]

Anyone who thinks this bullet is evidence that can convict, get a clue.

[@JayBee-cr8jm]

I'd convict him on it.

[@JayBee-cr8jm]

Why do you say that?

[@Huckle_Billy]

​@@JayBee-cr8jmbecause you are wrong. Simple as that. Educate yourself. How many states say their method isn't accurate? You know nothing about this.

[@superjaded1738]

It got Mr Allen Arrested. Even dna alone doesn’t get someone convicted. There’s usually a lot more that goes into getting a conviction

[@mil3276]

This whole case is a mess and a disaster, so sad for the girls to probably not get justice.

[@JayBee-cr8jm]

That depends. Is the jury a bunch of gullible morons who worship Odin or not?

[@johnhoover7278]

I just don’t see how a jury can convict based on the evidence. Delphi police should really be ashamed of themselves.

[@mckernan603]

Shouldn’t it be trivially easy to measure Bridge Guy’s height using a computer model?

[@JayBee-cr8jm]

Sure, on Star Trek.

[@Brown_Skittle]

No one’s calling it the magic bullet except you and The Defense

[@DonFonzarelli-uq9yx]

So how did richard get 9n his car covered in blood and clean it so well cops have had it since before arrest, still have it, and have no blood or hair fron the girls in it? Thats why it is the magic bullet. Because it is the only so called evidence the prosecution has.

[@lovetohuntlovetohunt6241]

I hear ya ! The crap words these media's pick out to create drama are awful ! I wonder why Angela didn't say that those 2 words were quickly objected to by the prosecution & Judge Gull agreed that it's not that at all 🤔 Shame on Angela... for promoting it, as this defenses evil words are gospel 😢 Words matter Angela, you seem to have forgotten 2 very young teens were brutally Mrdered & that both of their family's, friends, & also people who really care are still here & can hear you😤 Crap like this & the other crap said is exactly why Judge Gull has done her best to protect this case !

[@toryjones4305]

For real.

[@guitarista67]

Well, it is the magic bullet, so it doesn't matter what you think.

[@kell_checks_in]

So, you want it associated with a repeatedly debunked theory about the Kennedy assassination? How many layers of dumb can we put on the defense's arguments?

[@guitarista67]

Nonsense. This is bullshit. They're railroading the wrong guy.

[@slaws2279]

I’m completely unfamiliar with guns. So, this basic terminology and discussion of structure of the bullet versus its cartridge is helpful to me. 🙌🏼 And from what he is saying, he sounds like a bullet that is ejected can have unique markings.

[@COlson-rh3dg]

Hopefully they will show that in court.

[@guitarista67]

@@COlson-rh3dg It doesn't prove he had any connection to the killing. It's a weak connection at best, and not enough to convict.

[@kell_checks_in]

Yes. The markings will be different from a spent round and to a different degree than those on a spend round but they will still be unique.

[@OkLikeWhatever]

@@kell_checks_in Nope. Guns are mass produced by machine now. No uniqueness. Many states no longer allow this as evidence.

[@reighndrop1]

Bullet, cartridge, tomato, tomato. People know what you mean when you say unspent bullet. The point is, it was a BULLET that had not been fired, but had been cycled through the gun. Sheesh

[@spearmethedetails2248]

Ok, so he already had a round chambered and forgot before chambering another. Or racked the gun in order to intimidate the girls but didn't catch the cartridge that fell out. Both the extractor and the round being chambered would leave signature abrasions on the casing and shoulder of the bullet. This is old forensic science. Not sure what all the confusion is about.

[@whodis1509]

They compared fired spent cartridges to the one that was unspent. They didn't take proper pictures for chain of evidence. They also could not xclude firearms owned by other people. And that's just the beginning of the testimony so far. We havent even heard from the experts on the tool markings yet.

[@ITSANEWDAY-co1tn]

Yes yes yes​@@whodis1509

[@angelawatson1594]

​@whodis1509 criminal defence lawyer scott reisch from crime talk, said the defense would bring an expert in that will disprove the state's experts. A battle of the experts basically is what he said

[@PurcellAdam]

@@whodis1509- the procedure has high success rate when reporting a conclusive match. Researchers have proven that, as well as the fact that 1/3rd of “inconclusive” reports are actually definitive mismatches. So they already have a conclusive match reported. So they’re good to go even if they have inconclusive reports for the same cartridge for many other guns.

[@raptorman48]

None of this matters as long as the prosecution places him at the scene of the crime by all of the evidence combined they can argue the bullet to the ends of the earth but when you look at all of the evidence stacking up that is all the truly matters! The odds say it was from his gun though plus he owned knives it's not like he didn't own knives and guns!

[@ladycici1364]

The fact that it was found AFTER the crime scene was released is fishy! Sounds like it was planted there.

[@scottdaley1672]

Wrong

[@t-bone3202]

It wasn’t planted, the story is made up after the search warrant was served and LE gained access to RAs gun and ammo to fabricate the bullet. (I mean that is possible right?)

[@RollingStone51]

The man is spot on!!!

[@raptorman48]

There is nothing magical about that bullet period! The matching of an ejected round is pretty accurate these days by the striation markings and the chance of it being from another gun of the same make and model is very low chance and odds say there is s very high chance and probability it's from his gun I will bet on the odds it's from his gun!

[@ras9875]

So reasonable doubt

[@raptorman48]

@@ras9875 Reasonable doubt doesn't matter as long as he is placed at the scene of the crime which he is he even admitted to it and confessed the crime to his wife on a recorded jail house phone call and nobody forced him to do that and if he is insane it would explain why he murdered those girls then wouldn't it!

[@ras9875]

@@raptorman48 I guess he's already convicted in the court of public opinion and the Internet

[@ras9875]

@@raptorman48 the evidence seems very sketchy so far

[@Truecrimeandwinecouple]

Pretty accurate would not be enough for me nor should it be for any intelligent person on the jury.

[@StillKeepOnLosing]

"If it was applied correctly"... Means BS. Accurate to fingerprints? Nope

[@Paumanokcom]

Perhaps this particular firearm is defective to the point where it jams repeatedly and must be physically cleared with a tool leaving a unique mark. That would be solid evidence.

[@guitarista67]

Hahaha

[@BlairHorror]

there gonna convince everyone that they can tell the difference between ejected cartridges and suspect weapons. i want to see this cartridge compared to 30 otheres, manually ejected from the same model gun. if it wasnt fired i dont see how there can be noticable and Unique, id bet that one of those othere test cartridges would be exactly the same

[@Caseclosedtoday]

You’re calling it “The Magic Bullet” stop sensationalizing this case for views

[@fredrickriffel5845]

Not reliable at all... Have you to able to duplicate the marks over and over... Can they do that? Don't think so...

[@reubenxgotnext]

Richard Allen is innocent

[@LifeofMadds]

Why did it take 8 years?

[@VeledaWest-zu8kr]

The proscuiter did their job before they arrested Richard Allen it took 5 years before they arrested him.we seem to forget there was two innocent children murdered.

[@JayBee-cr8jm]

This literally proves his gun was there.

[@stevestarscream5182]

No it doesn’t lol you heard what you wanted to hear

[@JayBee-cr8jm]

@@stevestarscream5182 You heard what you wanted to hear. If this wasn't solid evidence, it never would have made it into court.

[@dariansoennichsen5751]

It didnt have enough markers to statisically match the first time, it shouldnt be included!

[@OkLikeWhatever]

There are 2 other people whose guns couldn't be excluded. Also, another firearms expert called it junk science because guns are not longer hand tooled, they are machine made, so there is no longer any uniqueness to each gun. They are mass produced so all guns made at the same time by the same place will have identical marks. Please realize that the extractor marks are basically just surface scatches. The gun wasn't fired. Add to that the bullet was found in the ground under leaves. What marks are left from that? And finally, no real chain of custody. No pics with evidence marker, measure, etc. equals should have been tossed out.

[@swampfizz]

did he do it I dont know one way or the other but.....the tolerences on modern firearms is almost exact..the differences in tool marks on a cartridge should be almost exact...unless there is considerable wear or damage to the components? and the difference could be compared to each individual cartridge? ..I would bet if you took a fairly new with minimal wear and damage and cycled 10 rounds from 10 different guns it would be beyond reasonable conjecture to match back all 10 round to the 10 guns?..its not as precise as rifling marks from a fired bullet?

[@cray6525]

It's as if someone with intimate knowledge of the particular type of guns owned by the suspect left this unspent bullet purposefully as a form of identification. Ritualistic murder is most definitely a valid motive in this case which would explain using a knife instead of a gun in such an environment where the discharge of a weapon wouldn't likely draw any real attention. That being said why has the prosecution ignored the ritualistic theme of the crimescene and presence of atleast one other man (if not two) in the vincinity and at a time relevant to this case? If a ritual did take place there could have been numerous people involved (including but not limited to those giving descriptions of "suspicious men"). Why these babies were allowed to venture into this environment unsupervised in the first place is the greatest mystery of all time imo...The specific conditions these babies were found express a form of symbolism further implicating ritualistic activity.

[@sw9881]

Wasn’t it a popular hiking trail? If gunshots were heard on a hiking trail it would draw attention. Also it was in the middle of the day.. it’s not as though they were in some sketchy backwards “hills have eyes” area where this type of thing would even be considered a possibility.

[@dory9742]

IMO, if the prosecution is against the theory of a ritualistic murder, they should bring in their own experts to disprove this. However, to stop the defense from bringing in their theory/defense is highly suspicious. Just one more reason to not trust the prosecution’s case!

[@ras9875]

Did they say only primer end was visible and the rest was under ground when it was found?

[@COlson-rh3dg]

Yes, maybe someone stepped on it.

[@ras9875]

@@COlson-rh3dg lots of maybe so far

[@SquireHill-e2s]

I thought sig p226 only comes in 9mm luger, didnt they say that the round was a .40 s&w? I could be wrong here. any insight?

[@Mommy-mu2rs]

Great info

[@angelawatson1594]

There appear to be many coincidences. RA described his clothing to the officer. He was Wearing the same clothes as the bridge guy. He was there. He admitted that. Same clothes, and now a bullet from his gun. ?

[@yesyourang2224]

Well, you can blame Hollywood for everyone calling it a bullet as they say “got any bullets?” Not “got any cartilages?” Could be talking about the cartilage in the human body. Not everyone cares about the jargon of items like an enthusiast or professional of said item.

[@Cmunic8]

Cartridge

[@llornkcor8880]

Are you intentionally saying cartilage instead of cartridge? Just curious because it's cartridge that is being said and referenced, not "cartilage".

[@austin33785]

Man this whole thing is a sit show. Lol bunch of housewives and MSM rumour mills. Every part of this whole tragedy is a circus.

[@t-bone3202]

I don’t like how the bullet became known evidence after the search warrant? 🥴

[@kellymac77]

Would have to have his dna otherwise not his

[@ShawnCrigger]

If the girls were stabbed, what evidence is there the bullet was even used in this. It could have been dropped before or something. I'm just curious how they can prove this without a doubt it was part of the crime scene and not just something dropped previously.

[@miniaturefarmer464]

Ammunition.

[@carbun7950]

Magic Bullet

[@TraciBradley-i8k]

It was right in between the girls? How is that a magic bullet???

[@MissysAngels]

No proof or chain of evidence where it was found

[@jackieoliver6983]

He's guilty as they can they come

[@stevestarscream5182]

Frightening that you have already come to that conclusion… I haven’t seen or heard anything yet that proves he had anything to do with it

[@jackieoliver6983]

@@stevestarscream5182 that's ur opinion and I have mine I've been following this I have been to the crime scene twice memorial

[@johns280]

All that disruption of the bodies changing clothes and everything no DNA evidence? No case.

[@tinamartina1801]

FREE RICHARD ALLEN !!!

[@raptorman48]

I suppose you didn't know richard's daughter had her high school senior pictures taken a couple years prior in the exact same spot where libby and abby were abducted and told to go down the hill did you??? He obviously frequented that spot as a favorite spot prior to the murders a weird and odd coincidence wouldn't you say??? You know nothing!

[@STdoubleDs]

He’s getting sparky

[@ottomueller4425]

​@@STdoubleDs Nope they are railroading this guy cops put the bullet there because they had no one and the guy that really did it is dead now.

[@tinamartina1801]

Mike Patten and Cody , are guilty.

[@JM-uu6ch]

Who that? I always though it was the Holder clan

[@raptorman48]

Who???

[@tinamartina1801]

The grandfather of Libbie , Mike P. & his step son- Cody, who is also a cousin of Libbie. The whole family of Libbie are protecting each other , including her own sister - Kelsie. Police suspected them in the beginning, and that is why they released 2 ( two) scetches - one of the father, and one of the son. They did that intentionally on a press conference, in front of the mother of Cody - Becky P. She started shaking. Theywa Ted to see her reaction. I think , that Cody did that with someone else,possibly Mike. There were , I think, 2 two killers.

[@t-bone3202]

@@tinamartina1801Exactly where I’m at! I would go as far as them getting dropped off being a lie from the liar (Kelsi)