Fred West's Brother Reveals How He Became A Gruesome Serial Killer | Fred And Rose | Absolute Crime

Fred and Rose West were Britain's most prolific serial killers. This series reveals their dark childhoods and how their terrible crimes went unnoticed for decades.
Absolute Crime is your go-to channel for the best crime documentaries. Subscribe for your weekly dose of crime shows, serial killers, thieves and prison stories.
Subscribe here: tinyurl.com/Ab...
#TrueCrime #Documentaries #CrimeDocumentaries

[@kellyshomemadekitchen]

This brother looks like a lot like Fred….unfortunately for him

[@deevasquez1171]

Was just about to say that, how frightening

[@paulbowman1762]

First thing I thought 👍🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿

[@kellyshomemadekitchen]

@@deevasquez1171imagine looking in the mirror and seeing your murdering brother your whole life. That’s what’s really frightening I think.

[@alysandraborden9265]

I thought they AI aged him up for second there. I feel bad for his brother though, everyone who sees him must think of his brother even before they know who he actually is

[@Bullitt3401]

He looks like Clint Howard. (Ron Howard's brother) That's not a good thing. lol.

[@captaincat1743]

I think it's courageous of Doug West to go in front of the camera to talk about this. He knows he is setting himself up for derision and hatred and possibly physical attacks by exposing his identity to anyone who did not know who he was, but still he has chosen to talk about it in public. I imagine he has already suffered a lot because of his vile brother's behaviour and still he is prepared to take more.

[@gavinmaitland80]

@@davedevine283 and he'lll say "Fred's Dead Honey, Fred's Dead."

[@FlickeringEmber]

I agree. I actually admire him although I find him hard to watch as he looks so much like his brother.

[@captaincat1743]

@@davedevine283 No you won't you'll run away and do a toilet in your panties. Brave people are humble on the internet, and cowards are brave from behind a keyboard. Just an observation.

[@Vixinaful]

Feel the same way. Poor guy. Very brave! 💗💗💗

[@sammyb1651]

@@captaincat1743 Zip it, tinsel t!ts.

[@artfull334]

Fred and Rose together were a lethal combination of extreme anger and perversion…absolutely terrifying 😰

[@madmanmenacetv2761]

Rose was the ring leader, Fred was a simple man after motor bike crash

[@tabsntoot]

He was very manipulative and cunning to get away with all that for so long

[@user-er7rh7ye3l]

​@@madmanmenacetv2761He chopped his first victim up and took her fingers and feet home with him as a trophy he was a horrible sick c__t long before he met her.

[@MarkStevens8899]

​@@tabsntootSo was she.

[@SpookyElectric319]

Folie à deux.

[@LivingEpicness1]

The most horrific thing is, they didn't even spare their own children.

[@gc9017]

Spot on and how can you even comprehend the mind set in going about doing those horrific acts in the first place, a truly sick individual and so was his accomplish.

[@pershorefoodbanktrusselltr3632]

I heard a jail recording of Fred being interviewed by Police and in it Fred actually talks about cutting his daughter up in the bath, so nonchalantly, explaining that after a while there’s far less blood that you would think and his matter of fact talk about how he cut her head off, is one of the most chilling things I have ever heard.

[@RickyRyan718]

People should pay attention to their neighbours with children, too much is ignored and these kids need protection and safety

[@beaulieuc8910]

Agreed. I reported my neighbours. The pol were there for an hour.

[@salvadorpicasso1503]

@@beaulieuc8910 Quite often the “authorities “ do a worse job. Sad world at times.

[@Ketowski]

@@salvadorpicasso1503 It requires a variety of resources, which sadly many don’t have. Especially in North America. Children fall through the cracks when family, support systems or community drop the ball. Having all of them does reduce the likelihood of them falling through. There are many situations we don’t hear about because something improved. And things worked out better.

[@nevadatan7323]

I think they were reporting previously. At least they were very much on police and social services radar. I think they got away with it coz some of the coppers were Roses clients 🤢

[@asherrichards9661]

So true 🤔

[@kathydavenport4422]

This brother is brave and incredible that he can talk about this. Bless his heart. Thank you for sharing Blessings to you

[@jeanettehinds4253]

Doug is in denial and can you imagine if Fred had died in that crash, how much pain and how many lives would have been saved.

[@mogadon7]

Doug turning up to deny everthing... damage limitation/ reputation management.

[@grogcat]

or maybe fred was a chronic liar and made it all up to justify what he did

[@jeanettehinds4253]

@@grogcat . It's a known fact that it was his sister.

[@wangchung_8541]

If Fred was travelling perhaps 20mph faster on his motorbike before he crashed, maybe none of this would ever of happened

[@user-zj3wk3nn4z]

It would have just with a different perpetrator unfortunately

[@markstevens1729]

It’s the little things…

[@antoniaburns3522]

Dear God. What were these so-called 'medical' people doing to an 8 month pregnant woman?

[@ThomasDoubting5]

Hideous isn't it. ??

[@meilingflesa8140]

I was thinking the same thing

[@GymMomof3]

Aweful!! 😞😠

[@jordansmith2461]

I know, they'd never tell pregnant women to take a new injection with 6 weeks testing now would they... Would they...

[@geddstock]

@@jordansmith2461no,but on the other hand they’re more than happy to abort unborn babies.

[@oh2887]

Charmaine had such a horrible existence, poor kid.😞

[@tartaninka]

I do hope she' s doing well up there ....🎉🎉😮🎉🎉

[@RaferJeffersonIII]

I have immense respect for Charmaine. A tiny vulnerable child, whom nobody wanted and she still wouldn’t break, wouldn’t buckle right to the end.

[@theronin365]

​@@Shannon-pn1iv poor little one probably thought everyone got this treatment from their parents.

[@Celticmist-qz6ve]

She wasn't biologically related to either Fred or Rose

[@tartaninka]

@@Celticmist-qz6ve on top of all 🖤🖤🥀

[@chab1rd155]

I never did believe Freds stories of sexual abuse by his mom and the rest of the crazy sexual stories he claimed when he was growing up. He was a compulsive liar, and this is/was well known. Even his one son, i think his name is Steven said his dad lied about EVERYTHING!

[@lancelotdufrane]

Dare we assume Anything… contributing to such a dark individual. I believe those who are this deviant are not treated as human. They don’t see others as human. It’s not unreasonable that they are warped from youth.

[@chab1rd155]

@@lancelotdufrane i understand but i feel like him having at least 2 major head injuries, both knocking him unconscious, may have played a large part in his devious behavior...

[@lancelotdufrane]

We agree. He was not,.. for lack of a better term, normal, ever…Parental abuse. These types of abominations/killing machines are lacking natural humanity. As I see it, destruction is passed down. Nature/nurture.. is one thing. But all out inhumane treatment will reproduce. Thoughts? Thanks for sharing.

[@chab1rd155]

@@lancelotdufrane i agree with that. Im sure that the nature/nurture aspect has alot to do with ones personality traits. We will never know how he was treated as a child or what he was subjected to...

[@lancelotdufrane]

You might enjoy the film, Appropriate Adult. About his representation as he was deemed questionable. .. enjoyed your exchange.

[@MollyLee9688]

As a human from a broken home...metal & physically abused, l had nothing growing up & always hungry. Now a parent myself, lm full of love as my children are. I don't care what the books say or Chinese whispers. You are born the way you are & that's that.

[@Harbaksh1234]

Thank you for sharing a little of your story with us. Warms my heart to know that some children of abuse, none the less grow up to be decent, loving human beings ❤

[@perrieargent9997]

So sorry you suffered as a child, hopefully your future remains bright.

[@ommanomnom]

Indeed. But I think it still counts when it comes to head injuries. You are born how you are, but if your brain gets injured, all bets are off for which wires get crossed after that.

[@suzannehorton3146]

Unfortunely, children who suffer abuse.. sometimes become abuser themselves....that's sad... i think his brother is brave to speak about this terrible matter..

[@JJR0694]

One of the children got done for child sex offences as an adult, years of being in that hell hole normalised it for him so sad

[@Alkin789]

I feel sympathy for siblings and Family members that have had a monster in their Family like Fred West. Think about all the horrible things the innocent Family members have to go through and people judging them as the same as Fred,When they're not.

[@gustotrankin7383]

They’re also victims in a way

[@mrpleasurehead]

I lived in this area for a while. Fred's sister used to work in the local shop. When the story broke she literally aged 30 years in a matter of weeks. My heart broke for her.

[@mandymelbourne4188]

The oldest son, Stephen ended up in prison for abusing underage girls.

[@Alkin789]

@@mrpleasurehead That's not good at all,But there is a lot of innocent Family in these horrible cases that suffer because of what others did

[@paulastarkey9973]

Well said.

[@stuartwaby3081]

My friend was a postman in Gloucester and knew Fred, he presented himself as a really nice man, he never spoke to Rose.

[@ramborambokitchenkitchen6357]

I'm from Gloucester and some of my family worked with him at some point. He always as you say, came across as extremely nice and helpful. Bloody scary you never know what goes on behind closed doors.

[@stuartwaby3081]

@@ramborambokitchenkitchen6357 Yes i agree, thanks for your reply 😊

[@KitGoldenlance-x7w]

@@ramborambokitchenkitchen6357 never trusted overly nice people.. like a salesman putting on a front

[@ramborambokitchenkitchen6357]

@@KitGoldenlance-x7w it's probably a personality trait for psychopaths.

[@hatednyc]

This is absolutely fascinating. I never realized this much of their backgrounds had been investigated.

[@candiceadriaanse9147]

Poor Charmaine she didnt have a chance with these monsters. RIP❤

[@mogadon7]

More to it than just Fred and Rose ?

[@Lillith-z6o]

Her mother is to blame why would you leave your daughters with an abusive husband mind blowing

[@liamkush5489]

My dad had brain damage after being chased from the police a bus ran him over he was never the same after he was agressive and a complete different person after.. my nana always said his agression was due to the accident.

[@unnamedchannel1237]

Head injuries change people in many ways. It’s a cruel fate

[@gregc5316]

Same thing happened to Henry 8th after he fell off a horse. Changed his personality.

[@beaulieuc8910]

why was the polie hasing him? What was he up to?

[@gustotrankin7383]

He dropped his wallet and they were trying to return it to him. What’s it matter @@beaulieuc8910

[@nicowins]

@@beaulieuc8910everybody have their skeletons. The police is just as bad as criminals if you ask me. Sure he had his reasons

[@user-er7rh7ye3l]

Just imagine what that poor little girl Anne Marie felt when she came home from school calling her sisters name as always ready to tell her about her day at school and then she's told she is not here anymore she has gone to live with her mum she must have felt frightened and abandoned by the only person who lived and did as much as a child her age could have done to protect her little sister from those animals.

[@Kizzalovespugs]

Whats worse is i listned to an interview by ann marie.she came home and charmaine was tied to a bed terrified. When she went bk to the bedroom .charmaine was gone. Absolute horrific. Nightmares. Evil is real.

[@LoloO42]

It's not entirely unusual for a parent to abuse only one of their children. That could be true.

[@LilStarfesh]

I agree. I don’t believe that Doug would want to speak ill of his mother and wouldn’t admit to anything if she did. He could have been younger and not known either

[@anneloving8405]

Yep,I have a friend who was the only one that was abused,oddly enough many years later she is living a better life than her siblings but it took 40years

[@chelleglenney156]

Their daughter wrote an incredible book "Love Always, Mum xxx." It's rough snd heartbreaking but a very interesting read. Couldn't put it down.

[@AlexysB]

I have an original copy of the first book that Mae and Stephen wrote together and THAT was also heartbreaking...I didn't realise Mae did another. I just ordered it now.

[@debbiemccarthy3864]

I read that book too heart-breaking read 💔

[@pain-killeryates5448]

I got Anne Marie's book "Out of the shadows". its heartbreaking

[@leerequiem]

​@@pain-killeryates5448 Harrowing book it haunted me That poor woman 😢

[@Celticmist-qz6ve]

Which daughter is that Anne Marie

[@kathrynbeetham5308]

From the minute Rose was born her fate was sealed. I feel so sorry for the child she was. Had Fred not suffered the head injuries I think he'd have still been an abusive creep, maybe not a killer. However, what happened happened and they both should have had to live out the consiquences, its sad Fred avoided them.

[@Celticmist-qz6ve]

He would have abused but maybe NOT killed.

[@jamiemohan2049]

Rose was more sadistic then Fred. Her children said this and the survivor who escaped said this too. More likely that Rose liked killing more then Fred.

[@Celticmist-qz6ve]

Many people are intellectually challenged and don't murder

[@markandresen1]

@@jamiemohan2049 As an adult, yes.

[@Celticmist-qz6ve]

Many children are abused. Caroline Owens had an identical childhood to Rose West and age became a model citizen in society

[@stratocaster539]

I came into contact with him in a pub in Much Marcel . It was a late evening and my girlfriend and I were the only people there when he arrived with a friend. He began acting aggressively and kept turning the jukebox up much to the the annoyance of the pub owner. While they were arguing we decided to leave. As I drove away I noticed that he and his friend jumping into a large car and starting to follow us. I put my foot down and managed to out run him by running through 2 sets of red traffic lights. I often think back to that night and how things might have turned out differently. I remembered that he looked like the the TV character "Monkey" that was airing at the time and he wore a gold ring in his right ear. I returned to the pub some 25years later with my family and the pub owner confirmed that it was indeed him.

[@Celticmist-qz6ve]

Are you male as you would think he would think he wouldn't approach a man. Who was the man with him. They say John West, his brother, was also involved in some of his murders too.

[@stratocaster539]

@@Celticmist-qz6ve the man was thinner and had fair hair. he sat and watched my girlfriend intently, to be honest i thought they might both be gypsies, my overwhelming feeling was to leave as i wasn't sure i could handle both if it came to a fight.

[@Celticmist-qz6ve]

@@stratocaster539 I would reckon it could have been a relatively his, who knows. Your know your actions likely saved her life. Well done to you on your quick thinking.

[@stratocaster539]

@@Celticmist-qz6ve yep no doubt mate.

[@j12torts]

Im really interested what other people who had contact with him think about him. I wish they interview his co workers and boss and also the seventh day adventist church next to cromwell st! Im sure they did house visitations at the West house

[@sarahpiaggio2693]

I started watching this, but I just can't finish it. So many children's innocence and trust violated and human beings crushed. It's unbearable

[@jannetteberends8730]

I stopped at the point the mother of rose got shocked. Imagined that baby in her belly. Couldn’t watch more.

[@sarahpiaggio2693]

@hopegreen9027 Touching response, thank you. With that logic we should all watch child sxl abuse videos because it happens

[@janetduncan87]

I've watched other crime shows and this couple was notorious!! I can hardly watch it as delves into more details. I know ppl who were abused as children, but they didn't go out on a murdering spree.

[@salvadorpicasso1503]

@@jannetteberends8730 By the caring medical establishment and government approved.

[@mikerope5785]

True crime. It's hard to watch, and it doesn't make you feel good ... yet for some reason people, especially women, are drawn towards it. Something about the terror excites them. I guess it's like a more real version of the horror genre but is still infinitely safer than encountering a depraved criminal in reailty.

[@anunusualironiccircumstanc2108]

How can a man like Fred be seen as attractive by so many young girls and women? He had many lovers and relationships.

[@user-my5wy2eo8g]

I know right? These woman are seriously desperate sad 😢

[@Swat-ed5bt]

Big cucumber 🥒

[@chrisrageNJ]

Damaged men know how to find damaged women

[@chrisrageNJ]

​@Swat-ed5bt there's some truth to that. Or the ability to talk ish, and eat box. You figure out how to make them climb the headboard once or twice and you could bang her mom and she would forgive you

[@user-my5wy2eo8g]

@@chrisrageNJ I agree with you.. both were wackos / viles demonic

[@asa1973100]

Doug West Is a brave made for not fearing guilt by association. Good on him for speaking out because imagine the crap his endured vie the blood connection

[@cameronhesketh6814]

Wasn't Doug West charged with serious crimes as well?

[@LordMonstrux]

@@cameronhesketh6814 no, just Fred and John West. the other children including doug were innocent

[@Jolene492]

The worst part he wouldn’t give the location of the bodies. Absolutely evil pair

[@Midgy21747]

Children and young girls so badly let down by the police and social services. Sickening.

[@christynorman7288]

Yes and the social workers and authorities make it hell for the decent ones ..the ones trying to get through difficult times. Is it because they don't want to tackle the rough ones the ones that could be bolshei and aggressive. They don't harrass them and don't do follow up visits esp with one partner being a step parent then the baby or toddler ends up like that Baby P Peace ☮️ out

[@user-jg2yj5yf1z]

Social workers has been known a number of times to of neglected certain cases. Where the kids has died.

[@InvisibleVicky]

He’s like Fred’s twin. Poor bloke

[@sonogabri1]

I'd like to see YOUR picture !

[@InvisibleVicky]

@@sonogabri1 wtf you on about troll

[@mondaynightmitch2823]

​@@sonogabri1Goober

[@lucylu6462]

Roses father diagnosed with schizophrenia in childhood makes me wonder about undiagnosed autism....Rose rocking as a child too....not to mention lots of trauma. Very sad

[@zeddeka]

It was even worse than that. On top of that, her mother had serious depression and they actually gave her ECT while she was pregnant with Rose.

[@margomargo898]

TBH, the women were just as warped as Fred West.

[@Littlemouse884]

Theres a huge link between head injurys and serial killers

[@theronin365]

It's a really sad story all around, they were treated terribly then ended up doing far worse to others.

[@blazefairchild465]

Who in the hell gives a pregnant wife electro shock for depression? Getting the crazy husband into the mental ward would have helped her depression go away quickly. This made Rose mentally disabled.

[@BrokeNdisAbled]

Right: all too many times the victim/female is quieted- either medicinal or administered shock or even put into a psyche ward to shut them down… and the aggressors go on living like an open secret!!! (I swear I live in a Crazymaking world where everyone gives the biggest bullies peace and penalize the victims)…

[@joelhall5124]

It's actually the safest treatment for depression in pregnant women. It doesn't affect the baby.

[@bobbypukes605]

It's a medically recognised treatment. Usually a last resort if all other options fail. It's not that outlandish, performed in some crazy bloke's shed.

[@jamiemohan2049]

Tbh it sounds like Rose could have gotten her mental issues from her father.

[@joelhall5124]

@@jamiemohan2049 I think that upbringing could have caused any of us to go crazy

[@GuessMyName234]

I actually thought it was him in the thumbnail, my heart skipped a beat!

[@punkgrl7991]

This is just terrifying. It scared me more than a scary movie. It's so sad all the victim's lives they destroyed in many ways.

[@nachmanedes9460]

There's no species under the sun as deprived as mankind!

[@ianmangham4570]

True ,even chimpanzees aren't close and they're fkn brutal.

[@Godwillsortyou]

Mankind is the least deprived species. Some are deprived of education and become depraved.

[@PalaeoClive237]

Those small chimpanzee-like bonobos are almost as sexually depraved as humans, Group sex and same sex behaviour is commonplace. Interestingly, both chimpanzee species band together to wage murderous war on other chimps. Still not as cruel and vicious as humans show themselves to be.

[@jeanplunkett5580]

Depraved .

[@annaelisavettavonnedozza9607]

Fred West’s family were victims of him as well. All the disgusting lies he told about then must have been infuriating to hear.

[@kevfit4333]

I don't think he was telling lies. I don't think Doug is being honest.

[@davejones2823]

Their other brother was worse. The media concentrate on the married couple but forget about the brother who also committed suicide while awaiting trial.

[@Lulusnotreadyforthis]

'Dozy Rosie', because she rocked back and forth and found school difficult? Shame on the man saying she 'wasn't quite right in the head' when she was clearly autistic. Thank God we know better now. It's so sad to think what could have been prevented in the days before proper medical interventions and social services.

[@anneloving8405]

People didn't know about autism back in the 1960s,maybe doctors did,but the the general public didn't.

[@StarkJerk]

The thumbnail freaked me out so much, I thought that was Fred now and had a horrible thought that I’d imagined he died a long time ago. Lord, his brother looks exactly like him. The poor dude.

[@jimthorne304]

What worries me is how many more families there are like this 'under the radar' in Britain. I worked for some years in a Government office dealing with cases of children involved in marital breakups. Incestuous relationships were very common, along with drunkeness, crime, and a pattern of unstable relationships between the parents. Some of the cases we handled were so complex that we had to draw charts showing them for use in court. We even had complaints from typists about the nature of the material that they were being asked to handle.

[@Ketowski]

Or around the world. Resources in the US are particularly thin for children and families.

[@Belzediel]

"Fred West's Brother Reveals How He Became A Gruesome Serial Killer"

[@xbe1971]

..I bet you're fun at dinner parties..

[@Belzediel]

Judging by what's on your playlists, you're a bundle of fun at preteen beauty pagents.@@xbe1971

[@XWoodbineX]

This all happened literally 30 minutes away from me. Out of the 4 women in the UK who have been given whole life terms, 3 of them have connections to Hereford. It's actually very disturbing. Rose West Lucy Letby (the killer nurse) and Joanna Dennehy who killed some men and then went on the run across country to Hereford, where she killed another and also attacked another man. Haven't found any connection with Myra Hindley...yet

[@chloed1924]

That's a really weird coincidence!

[@vordman]

Joanna Dennehy's man mountain boyfriend was from Kington Herefordshire. It was undoubtably where they were headed when she stopped off in Hereford to knife those two men. She was then finally arrested in Hereford later that day. A creepy place indeed.

[@XWoodbineX]

@@chloed1924 tell me about it!!!

[@XWoodbineX]

@vordman My Grandma used to live in Kington. I still go there to get my hair done 😂. It used to be a lovely little market town, but its pretty dead now and there's definitely an undertone to it. I'm glad my Grandma isn't around anymore actually to see it for what it is now.

[@234cheech]

eery

[@user-sh1no8kv6i]

Remember this brother has suffered also. It's not his fault.

[@leneo1731]

Can you imagine being the brother of Fred West? I mean people are so cruel these days it doesn't matter if they let their anger go towards Fred, his brother or some other person called West. I feel only emphaty seeing this man. He's been through hell. Never in my wildest fantasies would I blame him, shun him or anything just because he's Fred's brother.

[@blueheart1946]

What about the brother who committed suicide when Fred was arrested? He was,conveniently, a refuse collector . Allegedly making special collections from freds house.

[@tabsntoot]

He was in on these torture parties with Fred held in barns of young women n girls . Absolute sicko by sounds of it. Good riddance

[@jadepixie2719]

The younger brother of Fred called John who committed suicide sexual abuse two of Fred’s daughters he was a terrible man, he was a sexist coward who looked up to his older brother as a role model. He was poor role model for his son, who sexual harassed a female relative of mine, she described him as “cheeky & creepy.”

[@westminsterwatcher5152]

Yes, John West. It's generally accepted that he participated in the crimes with both Fred and Rose.

[@speedyboishan87]

John West, he comitted Suicide before his trial was about to begin.

[@speedyboishan87]

​@@tabsntootWhere was the barn and yes i have heard John West was there, not sure if the barn exists nowadays.

[@amandahunter4034]

A terrible, abusive childhood can be a factor in some people abusing others, but most people who were abused as children don't go on to abuse. Also, families are not people's only influence. All children observe and experience other families and adults' behaviour that contrasts with their own family. As adults, we have access to even more influences and make our own decisions and choices. Both Fred and Rose West made their own decisions and choices to behave as they did.

[@Panzer-Geomancer]

Good comment.

[@martindunstan8043]

Absolutely.

[@joananthony6323]

There are other factors The head injuries, the child abuse, existing psychological condition Common histories of all male serial killer There has never been a serial killer who's been studied who hasn't had these factors They've been well studied by now

[@db44491]

No excuse for evil, we all choose what path we take in life, no excuse...

[@derryjones1029]

I had a really traumatic up bringing dragged around the country by my alcoholic mother and a violent step dad me and my sister went into care in the end and I have never killed abused or bullied anyone so I think there is a big hole in the it was the upbringing that made them this way

[@kentishkid555]

As a resident of Gloucester I can tell you this is a perfectly normal reaction for people in this environment...its mad.. Iv lived all over the country, but you will never find a more wrenched hide of scum and villainy

[@user-my5wy2eo8g]

Jeez his brother looks like Fred.. must be awful to be him.. 😮

[@Celticmist-qz6ve]

Being sexually abused does NOT make you a killer.

[@Woodman-Spare-that-tree]

Did you not hear about the head injury and the ECT?

[@Celticmist-qz6ve]

@@Woodman-Spare-that-tree I heard about Fred's head injury and Rose's mother's ECT but as it was late on in the pregnancy it is NOT known for definite if it has a significant impact on Rose but get childhood CSA certainly did. Many women, I learned from historic studies in nursing and psychiatric care, many woman were given this treatment during pregnancies so probably more research here is needed but head injuries are definitely linked to criminality and sex crimes

[@jamiemohan2049]

True but it is rare for killers to not have some sort of abuse in their backgrounds.

[@Celticmist-qz6ve]

@@jamiemohan2049 apparently the killers of Jamie Bulger and Lucy Letby were not from abusive backgrounds

[@cincin4515]

This is 40+ years of American pop psychology blaming everyone else for the behaviour of pure self indulgent evil arseholes. Everyone's innocent.

[@lakeishajoe-pettaway7748]

And you NEVER know what’s going on behind closed doors man.

[@speedyboishan87]

If something does not look or feel right most likely something is wrong and needs to be investigated or analyzed further.

[@spiritbaby5151]

The guy who plays Fred is brilliant acting. He gave me the creeps when he leered over Rose 😮

[@haroldberman1341]

Are you kidding

[@davidhealy4534]

It is well acted

[@LadyCleo1]

I have seen ECT mess up and change a woman to the point she did not know herself this was in 2015, staff and patients protested at this. When the doctor left the hospital, the ECT suddenly stopped. Was bad to see a doctor let this happen to a woman in her 60s.

[@Suelovesboo]

I know a lady who’s husband refused her to have it , because of the damage it done to his wife . She was knew the same after that . This was back in the 90’s

[@LadyCleo1]

It should be banned in my opinion. The only time I have seen it work was in a patent who had an eating disorder that worked, but she was in a mental health hospital last time I knew.

[@LordKoehler]

Thx for uploading this interesting mini-series.

[@mrknight7957]

A fooking ice cream van!! I’m surprised they haven’t made a horror movie about this

[@brilton1]

@ 6’00” - Rose’s mother and Fred’s mother both married men named Bill Letts. That’s an eerie coincidence

[@prixprixprix]

I hope they can post the next part

[@trevortrevatrevortreva1520]

We who grew up in the inner cities often viewed country life with such idyllic living around the land and animals. Never thinking about the harshness of poverty. There is no excuse for the horrific lives ruined by the west's. After all this documentary gives light to family and other who grew up around them. None of whom went on to murder. I often think of the children of Fred and rose sincerely hoping that they are able to rebuild their lives and their victims are held within eternal heavenly peace. Great insightful documentary and reminder that if we ever see a family where something looks wrong to inform All of the authorities into action.

[@user-my5wy2eo8g]

Satan and his demons are everywhere not just in the cities

[@sarahrosen4985]

If social services couldn't be arsed to notice what was happening before everything came out, do you really think they could be arsed afterwards to make things as good as possible for the IMMENSE trauma those children suffered?

[@trevortrevatrevortreva1520]

@@sarahrosen4985 what I hope is social services did everything in their power to get the kids every available support and care they needed having lost both parents through no fault of their own. I hope that an internal investigation of social services have taken place and such lessons have been learned and the rights of the children in such instances remain at the forefront and that west families have become the loving close knit connections for the generations that have followed.

[@kerrylawson3522]

As a farmer I was once told by an old famer livestock is deadstock. Which for the most part is true.

[@loriegosnell9355]

Yep all these so called professionals just taking that murderers word concerning his so called “abuse” and making their rubbish opinions just makes me sick and I’m so glad his brother spoke out to prove he is a liar.

[@Kazza_8240]

138k views......and only 1.7k likes in 3 days? I've never seen such under-appreciation! 😯

[@OLDCHEMIST1]

This shows how complex the relationship between violent crime and brain damage is. Fred West was already learning disabled and then had two accidents, which caused brain damage. I wonder how many awful murders, rapes and similar crimes could be avoided by help for such individuals as Fred West. It seems to me social services and health providers need to become much better at intervening when someone has acquired brain injury.

[@wmoule]

You're diminishing the role of Rose... She was very active participator..

[@OLDCHEMIST1]

@@wmoule Agreed, but my conjecture was regarding the role of brain damage in criminality and anti-social behaviour. As a footnote to any article or documentary, they always mention that Fred West came off a motorbike when he was about 17 and that his behaviour worsened from then on. As for Rose West, you do get the folie a deux phenomenon, the weird and disturbed behaviour of one partner becomes the norm for the other. Also, of course, at the end of WWII, you had the idea of the "young follower", someone who followed the Nazis and obeyed orders, but whose responsibility was concerned diminished because of youth.

[@eyesopen66]

Can you imagine growing up in that house of horrors for the children? They must of been terrified as they became aware of what was going on around them? And happening to their siblings and the lodgers? It really must of been the most awful childhood. You had Fred trying to have sex with you and Rose getting jealous and wanting to kill you? Or if you weren't her children then she'd try to kill you for that? A few of the kids have managed to get something resembling a normal life with relationships so I believe? That alone is a miracle and a testament to the human spirit.

[@chloed1924]

One of their daughters wrote an excellent book about her life. I'd thoroughly recommend it

[@judithcampbell1705]

Sick minds think alike. Fred and Rose, a deadly disaster and a match made in hell. As far as the brother is concerned, I have no idea what kind of a person he is, I've never met him and haven't a clue what kind of person he is. Hard to imagine 💔. Thank you for sharing this video. It was very informative and well done.

[@christopersambeli2823]

i thought it was him until i read the title

[@kymrawlins8099]

Thing is, Fred gave yhe police over 130 interviews and his stories changed so much that by the end of it they couldnt tell what was fact from fiction. Some people believe theres still more bodies to be found.

[@davidblurton7158]

the pattern is a lot more so they say

[@kymrawlins8099]

@@davidblurton7158 it's frightening to think how many more there are out there their span of murder was too long for just 10 bodies.

[@frankthefrankly8055]

very many serial-killers have experienced a childhood head-injury, and it made them mad.......including Fred West

[@kerrylawson3522]

I had a fractured skull and in a coma for a week after a fall from my horse. I don't have any violent tendencies or outbursts from it.

[@debbrown9365]

The main thing i learned from this was how depraved fred was.its always been portrayed that rose was the instigator

[@ellaeadig263]

You ALWAYS have to protect peoples' brains and heads. Always. It is so easy to alter our neurology and turn people into monsters, not that that excuses them in ANY way but I am sure if neither of them had been exposed to what they'd been exposed to these victims would still be alive.

[@melisentiapheiffer3034]

People don't realize how bad head accidents are.

[@ed6911]

Psychologists talk a load of BS! I can’t believe they are held in such high esteem. Quackery

[@jimiplayscobo5877]

It's always speculation. Could be might be probably kinda thing.

[@catherinethemba]

Most are loopy. I was sent to plenty as a child. That's why they study Psychology, to try and understand themselves!

[@cincin4515]

They were manufactured along with lots of other community service jobs due to the end of the industrial era in the 80's. Most is made up crap but they had to create jobs.

[@ameliagfawkes512]

I'm pretty sure I've seen this guy before waxing lyrical about people involved in or suspected of crimes like these. It's like listening to football pundits (which I try never to do) doing match post mortems and, inevitably, coming out with "should'a, would'a, could'a" and "we wis robbed". I think most folk, on hearing the facts (hopefully) can make up their own minds about "motivations" and all the rest. I really hope they're not paying him to come out with what is effectively, "Well, it was obvious they were serial killers", except that it wasn't to all the people who could have done something about them.

[@Magneticvortex-kk4gb]

Its ultimately based on case study. The example of the decent chap who worked at the rail station having accident which damaged his frontal cortex leading to a dramatic change in behaviour is what they're basing their assumption on. Freds bike accident, they argue may have damaged his brain the same way.

[@perrieargent9997]

I think it was Fred West driving a dark green (badly painted) builder’s van who pulled across the road to get alongside me to offer me a lift home in Gloucester late one night. (He lived just three streets away.) I didn’t have far to go, and never accepted lifts anyway, so I declined. I remember he was smiley and seemed friendly. Not sure if it was him, but for some reason the interaction has stayed with me.

[@eoinyessesmaguire1636]

Pity he survived his accidents obviously more so for his victims.. I was 16 when this all broke and I remember saying to my Mother that ive never heard or seen such a vile scumbag of a human and I still can't think of another way to describe him.. The 2 of them were just animals she was just as bad if not worse?? I understand that having a brutal upbringing can effect ur adult life but there's plenty of other people who have had the same upbringing or worse but don't turn out like them, It's like they have a licence to do these things with that excuse, There just vile creatures end of....That lady officer who insisted on 25 Cromwell street to be dug up deserves much more recognition...That's police officers brains for you there programmed not to forget anything even the slightest bit suspicious 😂😂

[@cherylween4973]

* they're, not there!

[@nlwilson4892]

Other police officers ignored the numerous women that had gone missing in the area. There's ones that are good at their jobs and ones that aren't.

[@exjwtherapy1814]

I met a strange couple when i was gigging once the guy looked exactly like fred west they were happy about it and were getting off in public and were really creepy..from out of town. Said they lived in a trailer . I was so creeped out and they were actually asked to leave. They spent a bit waiting outside the pub as if waiting to pounce on anyone too drunk to be vigilant..i never forget the really bad energy seeping from them..just reminded me this..be safe guys..and poor brother of Fred also x i bet things have been especially tough for him

[@swisstoni2913]

When they arrested Fred West they asked: 'How many have you killed?' He said '7'. They said 'we've dug 12 up'. He said 'Yeah, but I'm a builder that's just an estimate'.......

[@mystifiedmargot1970]

😂

[@lucius4556]

🤣😆😂👏

[@cockoffgewgle4993]

Apparently when they asked Rose her body count she said in the thousands.

[@cincin4515]

Illiterate.

[@dcole2133]

Not funny 😮

[@Feoshyt]

I can't imagine having your own brother capable of such evil. He looks a lot like Fred too, I'm sure it's hard to hide from his brothers shadow on their family.

[@rlawrence9838]

I find myself believing the brother, it sounds like Fred West was just trying to make himself into the victim...if he could kill people he could also lie..

[@jamiemohan2049]

Yeah but who knows. They ain't gonna admit if it happened. One of Freds brothers raped his niece (Freds daughter). And Fred raped his sister. Fred exaggerates but probably some truth to it but it is hard to know as he was a liar.

[@mikerichardson60]

Fred West seems to be the energizer bunny. Nothing could kill him apparently. It's amazing how the evil seem to manage to find one another.

[@user-en4mz1gj1e]

i feel mad that fred got the chance to hang himself in prison , he got off so easy , he should be alive and suffering in an isolation till his death , why did the prison staff allow him to do this , they knew he was being ignored by rose so he should of been on suicied watch , they allowed him to take the easy way out , hanging is easy , you black out before you die so its painless ,

[@55tranquility]

In cases like this we always look for reasons - what we have to remember is many, many people do experience similar abusive and chaotic situations growing up, and experience head injuries etc and do not end up becoming crazed depraved serial killers. Of course these factors can’t be discounted and probably did play some part - but again I wouldn’t say you can pin it all on that. Severe intractable depression is still treated today with ECT particularly in severely depressed pregnant women who are at risk of suicide - their babies don’t go onto become serial killers. Psychopaths know what they are doing is wrong but they simply don’t care, you’ve got two psychopaths born into very dysfunctional families which perfectly layed the foundations for their future actions

[@cincin4515]

It's pop psychology. Everyone elses fault. In the 50's & 60's nearly everyone had abuse and violent upbringings. None of us did this crap.

[@maddannafizz]

Well, some of these points are true, but I do not agree on this; psychopaths do NOT feel the difference between wrong or right as you say. It is part of their sociopathic makeup to not have a conscience in any usual way that we would recognise.. Also head injuries to the frontal lobe have been often present in brain scans of murders and violent criminals. No excuses though, but in modern society, I wish they had checks on people like Fred, because he displayed dissociative behaviours for a long time, and let many events go. He began as a violent boy, certainly towards animals. 🙌

[@maddannafizz]

​@@cincin4515 well some did though, but middle class rich kids murder too, often their families...so it is not just the poor.

[@fionamclaren8506]

@@maddannafizz They may not 'feel' the difference but they know what they do is wrong - otherwise why do they go to such lengths to cover it up and to commit crimes in a premeditated fashion? They know other people have feelings, and if they're intelligent enough will know they have to pretend to have feelings which can be difficult to pull off. They have no feelings for others, only for themselves.

[@MsTinkerbelle87]

This caught me off guard…the poor man looks just like him.

[@lurdesdias3249]

Regardless, the victims' rights must supremely prevail over the offender's.

[@maverick4177]

Fred was asked if he wanted some sherry at Christmas in prison….he declined but said he could murder a couple of tenants

[@deanosaur808]

Stella joke! 😂

[@deeceea9488]

Fred was a bit dim.Then the motorcycle accident caused damage to the frontal lobe. Presto.

[@sammyb1651]

Then he fell 10ft down a fire escape onto concrete. Like a mad Frank Spencer.

[@Woodman-Spare-that-tree]

Add in the abusive childhood

[@dianecleary1054]

50 years ago as a ten year old I was at the hospital with a multiple cut wrist . A nurse said to my mother that I should see a psychiatrist . My mother refused, naturally she won't want them uncovering all the abuse . I know too well how these monsters get away with their crimes .

[@CJG-bk4bk]

Never heard any coverage of their backstories. Great job.

[@tabsntoot]

Doug sounds like the only sane one out of the lot. Poor bugger

[@lauraswann5543]

This documentary is missing the whole point. The police were frequent visitors to Fred and Rose West's house, to participate in what was going on in that house. The police and those higher up were and are involved in it.

[@mystifiedmargot1970]

Exactly. I also believe that Freds own brothers, including this one, raped the West children. One of the daughters wrote a book and I'm sure she mentioned his brothers.

[@michellejarrett1826]

I believe he was delivering girls for the powerful

[@beverleykirby8395]

Rocking backwards and forwards is a sign of neglect. The child has learned to comfort themselves, as no one else did.

[@annetteeggett]

Janet Leach his Appropriate Adult was another victim. Badly treated by police. Had a stroke in court and taken back in a wheelchair. I don’t care that she made a bit of money out of it. Rose had went through 6 helpers who left because they couldn’t stand details. So she said more than we will ever know. Lives a life of luxury. Pallying up to fellow murderers. Not quite punishment. Myra Hindley being one before she died thankfully

[@Vixinaful]

So they both suffered brain damages and found each other because they understood each other. Classic case, really.

[@nlwilson4892]

No reason to think Rose suffered brain damage. The suggestion that her mother's ECG could have affected her is without basis, the ECG passes electricity through the brain between the two contacts, it isn't going to travel around the rest of the body. More likely that her father's schizoophrenia played a part if she was mentally unsound from birth, but with her mother suffering depression it could be her upbringing that was at fault.

[@Vixinaful]

@@nlwilson4892 Schizophrenias also due to brain damages. Google schizophrenia and images of the brain and you'll see the center has enormous holes.

[@theresanolan1157]

@@nlwilson4892 research a little more........

[@3replybiz]

@@nlwilson4892 ECT not ECG. ECT causes convulsions, so yes it does affect the whole body.

[@nlwilson4892]

@@3replybiz I used the wrong letters (dyslexia) but I do know what it is. You're suggesting that the muscle spasms caused by the electrical current passing through the rain affects the brain of the fetus. I can't see how it would.

[@lisazinn866]

Wow. Hard to believe the brother became a serial killer too!

[@xxxnatxcutexxx]

I kind of believe the brother when he says that a lot of Fred's claims were false- I remember Fred telling one of his kids to basically sell the story to make as much money as possible, so it's not unreasonable to think that he probably lied and exaggerated things about his childhood and life to make the whole thing as scandalous and depraved as possible.

[@coreymichael1880]

Literally thought the exact same as well. Fred 1000% lied about sleeping with his mother. He used that to give him leverage as to why he was such a sick and sadistic POS.

[@garrieleepeck8753]

I had a bloody terrible horrible childhood i dont go around murdering people i just beat myself up .aĺl i heard when i was very young is my dear sister screaming every morning for years .so traumatised having therapy at the moment i didnt realise how much i just blocked out .horrible

[@cincin4515]

Yes. The 60's & 70's were a torture chamber in a horror movie for me and my brother. Evil and violence is a choice. Even alcohol related violence is still a choice to drink.

[@yolandajones4990]

I’m so sorry. I hope you’re doing ok. x

[@perrieargent9997]

I’m so sorry that you suffered and good luck with your therapy. It can really help to put the horrible things in the past so that you can move on.

[@katherinecollins4685]

Interesting interview

[@jacquelinedeigan776]

I feel sorry for the Child Rose..she could have been so much more. I think Fred would always have been in trouble. Well done Doug. It takes courage to come forward and agree to something like this documentary..

[@suzyq4982]

I hate her ! Lots of people have abusive lives and don’t torture children!

[@Celticmist-qz6ve]

Many children have as rough a start but they don't become murderers

[@jonboy1814]

Yo, I thought that guy was an actor playing Fred West, but it was actually his brother, lol😅 I was thinking, is that Nick Nolte out of 48 hours 🤔🤣🤣🤣

[@norfolkronin6307]

Bless Doug for doing this. Must be awful for him. Everyone wanting to know the details of their family history and life. Brave. No-one can pick their family. Comes across as a genuine, nice and decent man who's gone through loadsa crap as well. There's real evil scum behind the closed doors and curtains we are totally ignorant to. And it's mad that it could be anyone we have pleasantries with on a daily basis. So many children with the weight of the world on their shoulders with parents who haven't a clue the burden they put them under. No matter the physical and mental abuse they are having to deal with themselves. Especially elder siblings. 24/7 worry for the younger ones which can cause so much trauma in later life. Childhood trauma is so deeply embedded. Trauma which needs to be dealt with before they can move on in a productive life. If not behavioural problems, addiction and mental health problems usually follow. RIP PEACE to the victim's of this slice of appalling history. Bless And thanks

[@gowdsake7103]

Yet despite ALL that it is ZERO excuse

[@captaincat1743]

@@gowdsake7103 You are right, it's no excuse but it is one of the several reasons that explain how some people become psychopaths.

[@user-ih9dg3uz5y]

He should be locked up

[@TheNelster72]

No he didn't. That was a different brother, and with that stigma it's quite possible that other brother could have been innocent and committed suicide. Even if the court found him innocent he never would be in the eyes of those he met. The original West case is so warped and perverted it casts its shadow over everything.

[@user-ih9dg3uz5y]

@@TheNelster72 An evil misfit bastard family. They all should b e in Prison

[@olitarling6493]

This is still very hard to watch.....RIP to all the lifes that were taken, ❤

[@paulbooth77]

Fred's FULLY INNOCENT brother has got balls of steel despite looking like that monster

[@theblackwidowchronicles]

You can say what you want about Fred West but he made damn good tinned Tuna

[@cincin4515]

John not fred. The other brother. 😅

[@deanosaur808]

Kan ye not think of a better joke 😂

[@jimmyjohnstone5878]

Everyone makes their own choices. Having an abusive upbringing isn't an excuse for adult behaviour.

[@melisentiapheiffer3034]

It's not an excuse. It's an explanation.

[@rubaidaallen2764]

I’m beside myself with fear watching this. The brother looks just like Fred. Omg 😳

[@rachaelclarke9951]

It's a wonder he didn't get a Glasgow smile