Fuel Injector Not Pulsing "Intentional Shut Down" an SD Premium video

This is a 2011 Honda Odyssey 3.5L with a cylinder #3 misfire.
This lecture is part of my Chapter 18 "Fuel Injector Testing" playlist on ScannerDanner Premium.
You can subscribe here for a 14 day free trial: www.scannerdan...
Video breakdown:
0:32 intentional shut-down of a fuel injector introductions
1:07 fault codes, cause of the misfire (bad spark plug)
2:04 misfire data on scan tool
3:53 under hood connections with the scope
5:11 first view of the fuel injector waveforms on the scope
6:00 zeroing the amp probe
6:28 electrical "noise" on the injector circuit with the key on
6:40 electrical diagram of all the components running on the fuel injector fuse
8:27 fuel injector current ramp patterns
9:20 review of direction taken to troubleshoot this misfire
11:04 "Zach's Subaru" with faulty injector driver video link www.scannerdan...
12:20 open fuel injector discussion
12:48 second mention of the Subaru video
13:50 how to sync an injector waveform
17:00 open circuit diagnostic testing procedures
21:16 intentional shut-down can look like a bad computer driver
23:24 initial start-up is critical (intentional shut-down strategy)
25:05 view of the initial start up and drop-out of the injector pattern
28:00 detailed analysis is not possible for where we took our measurement
30:00 what output circuits react this way (intentional shut-down)
Related videos:
SD Premium Chapter 18 "Fuel Injector Testing" playlist
www.scannerdan...
For more information on this topic, I have written a “field manual” called Engine Performance Diagnostics which is available at www.scannerdanner.com as an eBook or paper book.
Want even more diagnostic training? Whether you are a DIY trying to fix your own car, someone looking to become an auto technician, or a current auto technician that wants to get more into diagnostics, subscribe to ScannerDanner Premium www.scannerdan... There is a 14 day free trial.
On ScannerDanner Premium I will bring you right into my classroom at Rosedale Technical College. You will find page for page lectures taken right from my book as well as exclusive classroom type case studies. What is so special about these classroom case studies? I pull live problem vehicles directly into my classroom and we troubleshoot them in real time, using and applying the theory and testing procedures we learn during the classroom lectures. There is no better on-line training of how to troubleshoot automotive electrical and electronics systems anywhere!
Disclaimer:
Due to factors beyond the control of ScannerDanner LLC, it cannot guarantee against unauthorized modifications of this information, or improper use of this information. ScannerDanner LLC assumes no liability for property damage or injury incurred as a result of any of the information contained in this video. ScannerDanner LLC recommends safe practices when working with power tools, automotive lifts, lifting tools, jack stands, electrical equipment, blunt instruments, chemicals, lubricants, or any other tools or equipment seen or implied in this video. Due to factors beyond the control of ScannerDanner LLC, no information contained in this video shall create any express or implied warranty or guarantee of any particular result. Any injury, damage or loss that may result from improper use of these tools, equipment, or the information contained in this video is the sole responsibility of the user and not ScannerDanner LLC.

[@SchrodingersBox]

Anyone who is a subscriber to this channel but is not on SD Premium is missing out on more than they expect. SD Premium is worth 10x the fee. Hell, I dont even really watch youtube anymore but I still subscribe to the premium purely as minimal payback for the extensive education Paul has provided over the years. Learning diagnostics but not subscribing to SD Premium is analagous to learning to be a card dealer but never going to a casino. You will think you're prepared but will quickly find your skills are way below requirement in the real world.

[@ScannerDanner]

Thank you so much Matt!

[@AveClubSound]

So which ones premium content is better? ScannerDanners or yours? :D

[@scientist100]

Thanks boss, I subscribed to you once but the series needed more content after the third month. I will sub to Danner and check it out. Thanks for the extra push.

[@YouTube.TOM.A]

This channel is a technicians dream and i would be lost without it

[@tmanda323]

@@AveClubSound SD is the king. Math, he is excellent, he knows the things

[@ScannerDanner]

ScannerDanner Premium subscribers will recognize this video. I am using this as a promotion to show others an example of the types of case studies and classes I am bringing to SD Premium. For those of you interested, there is a 14 day free trial which you can subscribe to here www.scannerdanner.com/join-scannerdanner-premium/subscribe-to/3-scannerdanner-premium.html

[@SuperMarioDiagnostics]

ScannerDanner i personally enjoyed the case study you did on a Lexus using a pressure transducer. Great stuff.

[@mechanic_marky]

I just bought myself a 2000 series pico to learn to use it and get better at electrical diagnostics. I may join your premium channel to learn more like this. Although I work on heavy equipment, a lot of systems are similar.

[@ScannerDanner]

You will not be disappointed. I have many heavy equipment guys using my material. Thank you! Hope to hear from you there.

[@jasbirkalsi2882]

Do you do many European vehicles

[@herrkiwi3110]

Excellent content Paul , Thank You Sir !

[@Mark33090]

Both tests the misfire counter stopped at 99, I think what Nic says totally makes sense. That's the limit, then the computer says shut down that injector. No reason to count after that. Great video, thanks for sharing!

[@ozzstars_cars]

This video reminds me years ago first watching SD in the classroom. Back then this wouldn't have made much sense to me. I guess I have learned a thing or two all these years later because it all makes total sense. Enjoyed the vid Paul, thanks.

[@chungaleta1234]

When you are not a mechanic, know very little about cars... And yet you understand every bit of this video.... It's because the explanation was neat and perfect. That is what a good instructor does. Thanks Paul.

[@SimplyDiagnostics]

chungaleta1234 it’s true, paul is extremely gifted when it comes to transferring his knowledge to others. 👍

[@ScannerDanner]

This is what I strive for. To make it easy to understand. Thank you so much!

[@ScannerDanner]

Always got my back, don't you my friend? Thank you Steve!

[@SimplyDiagnostics]

Always Paul.

[@rickirelan8385]

@@ScannerDanner I appreciate the reviews and how you get right to the point,,My sole purpose with schooling,,was repo,,shoot me now,,idc,,

[@SmittySmithsonite]

Before finding your channel, I never knew an engine computer could kill an injector due to a misfire. Just that single piece of knowledge alone saved me countless hours of frustration, lost time, and money! I've learned a whole lot more than just that on the Premium Channel, though!! Another AAA+++ vid, brother! 👍👍

[@pigeonsil240sx]

it does make sense though if you have a injector firing with no spark your going to have severe cylinder wash or possable hydro lock maybe

[@tjshooter4630]

This is a common issue with the J35 engine it happens to the Pilots and others also. Honda has a TSB campaign for the Odyssey for piston ring replacement.

[@stephencook4611]

Dan, the reason the misfire counter stopped is likely due to the fact that the ECM disabled the injector. When that occurs the ECM knows it is causing a misfire and doesn't report it. You probably already figure it out, but just in case.

[@tpcoachfix]

I understand that the PCM is shutting off the injector for the misfiring cylinder to protect the Cat. I would also say that if the injector were to continue to operate, you'd get cylinder wash down from the raw gas, also.

[@Mr1technician]

Awesome case study Paul. I enjoy all of your posts. One of the things I picked up on is it seems that after 99 misfires when the counter stopped counting on the scanner is when the computer turned off the driver. 99 misfires must be the criteria for turning the injector driver off.

[@joshuamorphew1717]

@scannerdanner I just wanted to thank you for your knowledge and class here. I purchased your book. So my vehicle 04 corolla had the p0301 cylinder misfire #1. I started being a parts changer starting with coil packs spark plugs fuel injectors...was stumped...took my car to the toyota dealership and they tried to sell me a 4,000 head gasket job that would have been a waste of time...would still have the issue. I'm glad i had my car towed back home..then I saw your video... I tested the fuel injector wiring as youve shown using a noid light and found no pulse on injector 1. The wire had an open ground where the banks tie together. If I had not seen your video I would have continued changing parts. I am eternally greatful for your knowledge! Thank you!

[@ALZWE-LIBYAN-CAR-ELECTRICIAN]

And may you can know if you have a bad ecm or intentional shut off by disconnected cam shaft poison sensor in some cars. One day I was working in Sentafe 2007 3.3L with P0341. And I have a cylinder 3 misfire but I don't have a code or intentional shut off for the injector, when I replace cam shaft poison sensor, the new code occur which is P0303 and intentional shut off for injector 3, and the problem was clogged injector 3.

[@ScannerDanner]

just shut the engine off and restart it to determine intentional shut-down or not

[@vunit8213]

Is it possible for the injector driver on a GM 6.0l vortec to shut my #6 injector down even on start up? Because, when I turn truck off i can never get the noid to light or pulse at all. Feed/ control are both reading proper voltage KEY ON ENGINE OFF AND KEY ON ENGINE ON. I’m getting 14.2 at the ECU on the ground controlled negative KOEO... but noid light won’t light up... my dash went out last month and I’m only getting flashing blue needles, related??? I don’t know 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@8power0]

Der Mister Danner i must congratulate you on having this 2011 newer Honda vehicle on your channel . Newer vehicle's are what most auto techs see these days . Please keep up the great work and thank you .

[@jum5238]

Had this happen today w/a stepdaughter's car. melted igniter coil that also broke. I suspected it had purposefully shut down the fuel injector, but didn't want to have her drive it until I could confirm. I went home to check (happier using my computer to search, and phone kept dying), and she had called a tow truck before I could tell her to drive it to my house. Having destroyed 2 cats with a bad (brand new, non-OEM) distributor cover on a 99 suburban, I'm GLAD this feature is in new cars. Thanks for confirming this on the exact same engine I was working on.

[@frugalprepper]

Great Video Paul. So for those of us without a amp clamp for our scope, could we just go to the misfiring cylinder driver wire at the pcm and scope the voltage while running see it at 14V. Then at startup we should see the driver pull it to ground till it shuts it down. In a vehicle this new the computer should be good at identifying which cylinder is misfiring from the misfire data or the P030x code. As a guy that does this on the side I don't buy tools until I have to have them for a specific job, but I am really thinking about one of those clamps for my scope, and I really need a better scope too.

[@ScannerDanner]

Sure, you can watch voltage waveforms and make the same determination, but it is certainly not as easy as pulling a fuse and reading waveforms from the fuse box. You can get an inductive low amp probe from my friends at AES for less than $100 and it will work just as well as my Snap-on an Pico ones will. I actually have this listed on my tools page of my website. Hope that helps

[@nickayivor8432]

PRODIGY Sir ScannerDanner Thank you 👍 Take care and have a great day Sir ScannerDanner From Nick Ayivor from London England UK 🇬🇧

[@milcotto4153]

Honda is causing this problem. They released an engine on the market prematurely. The engine design was flawed. There should be a car life time warranty because of this flaw, imo. 'Honda responded to this widespread issue by extending the powertrain warranty on 2008-2013 Odyssey models to eight years from the time of purchase or lease with no mileage limits. They’ll also reimburse out-of-pocket expenses spent on replacement parts (even brand new engines).' And all the mechanics and auto techs should be taught what this engine is designed to do and what the computer programs are designed to do (with flow charts so it is easy to understand). Much of the testing, trial and errors that is going on is not necessary. In this case knowing what this engine is designed to do would be enough to diagnose the problem. It is the engine's VCM system that is causing this. VCM = Variable Cylinder Management. This 'fuel saving by cutting off half of the cylinders' system causes oil to leak into the engine's combustion chamber. So you will end up with excessive oil use and REDUCED fuel economy. And damage to several auto parts. And what about permanent damage? 'The frequent shutting off and turning on of the cylinders made the cylinders prone to rotation, allowing the ring gaps to align and causing the oil to leak into the combustion chamber.' Similar engine systems can be found in some of the other brands too. And the customers are paying for all of this. 'In 2014, Honda gave the Odyssey a facelift that included a new engine without the VCM system, and these newer models don’t seem to have any oil consumption issues.' From an older article I read that Ford was working on implementing this cylinder cut off idea from their 2018 models. Their three cylinder eco engine will have to work with only two cylinders. They think they have counteracted the cylinder rotation problem with certain measures. This is one of the things they have done: 'The system uses an offset crankshaft configuration and deliberately ‘unbalanced’ flywheel and pulley that counteract vibration. The new dual-mass flywheel and a vibration-damping clutch disc help neutralise engine oscillations when the engine is running on two cylinders, especially at lower revs, and enable a wider operating range.' Yeah, what could possibly go wrong with that design...

[@mostlymoparih5682]

In real estate it's location, location, location. In repairing cars it's diagnosis, diagnosis, diagnosis. Professor Paul the diagnostic master. Nice.

[@Benny-dv7xm]

Hello, I am trying to learn proper troubleshooting and diagnosis despite all the blocker computer and sensors in the way. I knew I was correct about the screwyness of the computer programming to sensor relationship and the need for them at all but finding data is difficult. Where you didn't give me anything to alleviate the condition at least I can show from an accepted mechanic that what I discovered on my car is perhaps going to be on more vehicles and indicates flaws in the general troubleshooting without indicating the computer programming and computer reference maps upfront. Subject Vehicle: 2004 Subaru Forester X 2.5l w/ automatic operating in awd mode TESTING THE READINGS AFTER UNPLUGGING AND RE-CONNECTING THE SENSORS- because Scotty Kilmer, "when there is a no communication display" and/or that the sensors can cause the computer to get confused. I have the iac connector disconnected and two vacuum hoses disconnected and the computer shuts down the output to excite #1 coil and no high voltage to the plug. BUT, I AM RICH AS HELL NO MATTER WHAT AT IDLE. ONLY. IN THE PAST, ONLY AFTER COMING OFF THE HIGHWAY CAN I GET IT TO LEAN OUT SOME DESPITE THE EGR CODES, THE AFR HEATER CIRCUIT CODES, AND THE EVAPORATIVE LEAK CODES. ONE TEST: I ran the car for two hours at idle and it never seemed to faulter from being lean as when first coming off the highway. But as soon as you turn the car off for more than a few seconds then it starts running the rich as hell and missing crap. Two Discoveries: The computer was not bolted tightly to the floor and I had one ground wire from the head to the inner fender that had corrosion which I cleaned but neither one of those errors made a noticeable difference. The Zurich 13s scanner with the afr oxygen sensor disconnected reads 2.156v and nominally irradically switches to 2.151v which is the same as what it was reading when the sensor was connected. Some of The monitors will stop working such as for the fuel trims and the O2 sensor post catalitic converter. Before disconnecting the AFR sensor the short term fuel trim monitor would work but would scale up reading excessively high up to +- 30% but then it would shut off but no noticeable changes occurred in reducing the fuel because it was still rich smell and reduced power when observing the output of the exhaust pressure and feeling temperatures.

[@ScannerDanner]

You have an AF heater code, and EGR Code and an EVAP code. Focus there! Especially the AF sensor. If that heater is not functioning, you will have massive shifts in your fuel trim control.

[@monzsterman]

Very nice video! Mice do like to get under those intake manifolds. First thing I look for in a miss on a V6 Honda is a nest.

[@franciscovera828]

Alot of common rail direct injection high pressure systems gas or diesel will stay off UNTIL optimum fuel psi is reached.i know cause now I have a spare ecm.couldnt find starting condition stragedy info anywhere.no codes and fuel psi matched factory info but scan data was just a little slow to display optimal psi.ohh well at least my customer friend now has backup ecm.!!! At least that's how I calm him down after making buy a spare ecm

[@joopterwijn]

12:15 I get the explanation, but not “multiply” the current, “add on” or “increasing” the current.

[@tonyfremont]

Off topic, but those other current spikes seem a little extreme. They're occuring fairly close together (at a high frequency of occurrence). I can't imagine a MAF doing that, or any of the other things you mentioned, except maybe the ECM itself. I guess it would have periods of high processor load on that time scale while calculating pulse width, ignition timing and fuel injector firing calculations, keeping a time correlation with the actual injector ramps. I'd be looking to track that down, just out of pure curiosity. I wish pico made a four channel scope for a decent price. I won't even go into my rant about their pricing on the "automotive" scopes and their of letting people use those software based features on their cheaper scopes. There is no technical reasons to restrict the automotive version of their pc software to a certain line of scopes.

[@wymanlei7084]

toyota done it for the long time, if the igf cant igt for 8-10 cycles , pcm will shut down the injector, great infors for the misfire data and the intentional shut down on the honda, 1 quick questions, sir. since all the new car will shut down the injector if theres misfire. so we cant really look at the fuel trim to determine the problems?

[@brianwinter1453]

I have had that happen lol it will kill injectors

[@pigeonsil240sx]

friend has a honda civic with acura tsx engine and we found number 2 injector had no control,turned out to be a cop coil caused ecu to shut down injector to prevent hydro lock but we came too close to replacing the ecu after seeing no control at pcm.by chance we found it was the cop not firing and another friend who was into these honda builds had brought up the ecu shuts down injector control when severe misfires happen on cylinder

[@renj6531]

its a great thing car computers are more reliable than home computers if they were a flop then we'd probably still have carburetion.

[@johnmckamy6398]

After a hard days work it's nice to have a danner vid . SaaWeeet

[@langjaijono]

Here in canada we have a service bulletin for cylinders 1,2,3, and 4 misfire due to carbon on the spark plugs from excessive oil burning on the v6 VCM motors. to correct the issue we would have to remove 1,2,3, and 4 pistons and replace the oil control rings. i believe there is a warranty extension for this issue.

[@ScannerDanner]

yes sir, thank you. For this lesson, I didn't care about what caused the plug to foul or of the oil burning issue

[@domenicmacri6953]

you didn't mention the chance of having a shorted driver and not having the presence of 12 volts at the injector control wire.

[@SuperMarioDiagnostics]

Nice! Great topic! 👍 First btw lol

[@kamleshwararjun5819]

Iam going through the same thing with my 2011 honda odyssey...with number 4 injector misfire...changed the injector, plug the coils...the computer is still shutting down the injector...help please..thanks bro ..I have your book..could not find it in there...thanks

[@ScannerDanner]

So it fires on start up? Do a compression test next on the number 4 and compare to another cylinder, preferably on the opposite bank but not necessarily needed, depending on the results. Pick an easy cyl to compare to first.

[@samkhan8352]

What can be the cause on a cummins 5.9 engine if it has all injector fault codes and check engine light on and the engine cranks but wont start

[@throttlebottle5906]

it's always a good idea to start by looking at "ignition" components when there's misfires, before jumping to conclusions. perhaps I'm just old school, but it works for me 99% of the time :))

[@ScannerDanner]

exactly what we did, thanks!

[@dimisrambodimisrambo7285]

SO IN THE INJECTOR CONTROL CABLE AND THE CORRESPONDING CONTACT IN THE ECM WHEN IT IS IDLING WE SHOULD SEE 14 VOLTS IN ALL CARS?

[@roelnavarro88]

Whats up scanner danner, Was wondering if you kindly help me out or point me the direction on my 2010 ram 1500 5.7l . Been getting p0300 random misfire. Cylinders 4 and 6 voltage drops in a couple seconds like your video. I ordered new ecm did the same, order another just in case first ecm was bad. Still the same, changed spark plugs, getting rich codes now on bank 1-2 . Changed intake temperature sensor/maf , crank/cam shaft sensors. Still throughing too much fuel i can smell in tail pipe. Any suggestions or thoughts brotha

[@ScannerDanner]

Compression test should be next

[@darrensauter4053]

I have a 92 Suzuki Samurai with EFI using a throttle body. Everything runs perfect. Then I add an MSD 6a 6200. I connected the two "+ & -" wires to the MSD input wires, and the MSD output wires onto the coil as shown on the MSD diagram. Also the MSD battery connection. Then tried to start engine. Engine starts and runs, but only if I continually pump the gas. Also, the check engine light stays on and the tachometer stoped working. I'm assuming that there is a missing electrical pulse to the computer, that the MSD is blocking or not providing. Have you got experience with adding an MSD box to this type of system? Or any advice on where I can possibly get help. Thanks

[@ScannerDanner]

Change it back to stock. That MSD ignition system will do NOTHING for your engine. Only a heavily modified engine with very high compression ratios or if you added a supercharger or turbocharged it, would you need the additional energy for the plugs to fire properly. That's what that MSD system is for. On a stock engine, all you'll do is wear out your spark plug sooner.

[@donaldyoast6532]

I have a 1999 Chevy suburban that I just replaced the spider injector but still not running. The vehicle will run if I put gas in the throttle body. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

[@ScannerDanner]

What is your fuel pressure. It has a service port, buy a gauge and test it. You can get one for like $30 for that set up

[@likezdislike]

Hi Paul. Do you have any case studies diagnosis regarding on diesel CRDI fuel injectors? Thank you for awesome videos

[@ScannerDanner]

I have a friend producing some diesel content on SD Premium for us. Here is my current playlist: "Diesel Engine/Powertrain Diagnostics" NOX Sensor or DEF Injector Leak? 2015 Mercedes Sprinter DEF System Problems 2017 Ford F-350 Superduty 6.7 Nox Sensor:module Testing (P020ee) 2013 F-550 6.7 Powerstroke - Variable Geometry Turbo Diagnosis Really? 8 Bad Glow Plugs? 2015 6.7 Powerstroke EGT Blues 2014 F-450 6.7L Powerstroke, Reductant Heater Circuit Fault I'm sure down the road we can get some material up on the system you're referring to. www.scannerdanner.com/join-scannerdanner-premium.html

[@williegillie5712]

I think there’s more problems with that engine then just a plug. Especially if there’s oil on the plug. Perhaps valve guide leak? Or possibly a bad set of rings. Me thinks that possibly a valve guide seal leaking. Sometimes the most simple clue is the answer. How did oil get into that plug? Good video👍🏽

[@ScannerDanner]

This engine has issues with the rings. It is a known problem. I didn't care for this lesson.

[@williegillie5712]

ScannerDanner yeah it’s too bad he didn’t mention the real cause for the whole problem on that car.

[@sunneysunney9761]

So we are still reverse engineering updated technology

[@SAAutoRepair]

Awesome content. I'd be curious to see if the misfire counter stopped at the same time the intentional shutdown occurred. That would prove the other gentleman's theory. Additionally, is that the same point "Misfire Cyl4" went from "no" to "yes" (3:00 in the video, left side)? Again, thank you for sharing you knowledge.

[@derekoliveira7446]

Can t you make a separate circuit for the injectors to get rid of the noise?

[@geoffrwelsh]

This is a great lesson to be teaching those lucky students. I had a Nissan 3.3L (VG33E) one time that kept shutting off random/different injectors. I knew enough to know that the ECM was "doing it", but couldn't get diag time to figure out why. Cust had already thrown plugs, wires and dist. at it, and was out of money. (as usual...grrrr). Anyway, I watch your vids to keep sharp, those kids are so lucky!

[@PicassoPete]

P.S. All to do with self protection of the engine...

[@eddieds312]

What if the misfire really is a fuel related misfire and is a bad injector or injector with a defective spray pattern would the PCM still disable the injector in the interest of preserving the cat_converter?

[@ScannerDanner]

possibly, but the key in recognising this condition is what do the injectors do on initial start up?

[@waqasazmat81]

Just for my clarification Paul (20:13), if there is 0v at the PCM side I understand it could be an open circuit. But on the other hand if a driver turns on wouldn't 14v drops to 0v as well? Or we are looking at constant voltage change on and off (14v to 0v)? If we see 14v and then 0v that tells us a driver is working, correct?

[@ScannerDanner]

Yes 0v could be an energized circuit all the time but here is the difference. 1. The amperage waveform we saw would be riding over top of a constant 1 amp baseline (we had 0v for a base) 2. The exhaust would be billowing white smoke from a constant spraying injector. Hope that makes sense. Im just going from memory on this one

[@waqasazmat81]

@@ScannerDanner Thank you, yes it makes sense. As always appreciate you taking time out and answering questions.

[@slimali9649]

Thank you. This issue is the same in the renault symbol

[@mikechiodetti6737]

Misfires are more of a circle of components, programming AND, MOST IMPORTANT, UNDERSTANDING THE WHY AND HOW IT WORKS! Just throwing a coil and or spark plug at it is using the parts cannon, NOT diagnosing the problem!

[@andrewk778]

Thank you for sharing, professor.

[@rogersy7209]

You can identify defective injector by measuring resistance of injector 3 to ecu wire connector. Maybe ECU was more accessible.

[@ScannerDanner]

resistance measurements will only tell part of the story and in a lot of cases can be completely useless, just a word of caution. When an ohmmeter reading shows "good" it can still be bad. When an ohmmeter reading shows "bad", only then can you rely on the ohmmeter.

[@geoffrwelsh]

I like to say "resistance checking is not pass or fail....it is fail, or do more tests" :-)

[@mharradine57]

@@ScannerDanner Good to know. I've seen a lot of people solely reply on the ohm meter and see it often in flow charts.

[@watchlover8297]

Interesting vid. But if you had the ignition off while replacing the spark plug when you started the engine back up to test it the injector wouldn't be turned off. The ECU wouldn't need to as no misfire would be happening. But a good example of fuel injector cutoff.

[@1jeffr]

You would think that Honda would have put in the computer's software (a flag) that shows on the scanner data that the computer has shut off the fuel injector. Wouldn't have been a huge programming chore, probably 10 or 15 lines of code.

[@andremoss4327]

I understand you were trying to point out how the pcm shutting down the injector can cause misdirection and/ or a misdiagnosis but I was doing the same thing your students were arguing with you through this video because they knew what was wrong. The most recent thing that taught me this lesson was a buddies clk430 that sat up because his wife lost the key. Misfire codes on a couple cylinders but focused on 1, confirmed spark with a test light then went straight for the injector. Watched the computer try to spray the injector for about 5 seconds from startup then stopped leaving me with WOW that's an aggressive strategy. Balance test confirmed a completely clogged injector. I don't own any snapon scanners but even the elcheapo elm327 with scanmaster software shows the upper limits of mode 6 stuff could you check to see if the misfire counter has a 99 count as it's upper limit. Thanks for another great video and your awesome channels.

[@brianwinter1453]

One thing that gets me why did the plug have oil on it like you said then you switch the plugs misfire changed from 3 to 4? Also wish you would have showed o2 data. Coil with 14v is showing continuity threw coil of injector also you could check ohms on injector threw fuse an output of ecm. But simple data could diagnose this without scope.

[@athhud]

Forgive me if you have already done this (I didn’t find it), but is there a chance that you could post a video covering the diagnostic equipment that you use? You won’t offend me if you go into great detail about each tool, but I would also be satisfied with a basic list of the fancy stuff beyond a test light and meter. I currently do not have a way of viewing waveforms and think that is the next step in my education. Just not sure which direction I should go. My laptop is ancient and I doubt I will keep a bench top oscilloscope around when I need it. I think I want something with more precise viewing than a handheld fluke scope would offer and the most limiting factor is that I am a cheapskate with high-dollar taste. :D

[@kevinmills1184]

I have a 97 Buick LeSabre it cranks and then shut off can you help me

[@ScannerDanner]

Not unless you can tell me what it's missing when it doesn't restart.

[@GeminiSeven43]

Great Video on an off-the-wall occurence that would have you pulling your hair out and replacing many components. Thanks and Keep up the great work

[@throttlebottle5906]

towing with a dead misfire is always wise! you never know what the computer will do, it may keep retrying that cylinder over and over, without restarting/resetting the engine/ecm. it's not listed nor explained in any documentation that I've ever seen, other than "check engine light flashing" don't drive it, tow and repair!

[@brandonvandiemen144]

Great video once again! So if a bad spark plug caused the injector to shut down ( think I heard correctly) . Would the engine be running lean?

[@aleksi1762]

Aleksi Hi, I have a Chrysler neon 2001 with a remote problem. The times are working well and some times do not work and I have checked the coel does not send electricity to the candles

[@Embermist69]

Completely random, but I wonder how hard/easy was it for you to be able to set up the Verus to be controlled by the Smartboad? I think its nifty, and good info as always.

[@minirey360]

I am an automotive college student and I have never watched an entire class on KZbin, this is the best instruction I have watched... ever. When you lifted the amp clamp up and then told your students how you zero'd it was subtle but awesome. Our teachers would fix it, and not mention how... which would make us puzzled when it was our time to play with the machine and tried zero'ing it without knowing how. You're awesome!!

[@lubinpetit1831]

Could this have been picked up without a scope?

[@brianwinter1453]

Yea look at codes then if you do have misfire monitor look at data, watch o2 sensor if its fuel injector then bank will be lean if it a spark issue then it will be rich then a coil are spark problem. If o2 lean also check for vacuum leaks

[@Tony-rl2fr]

Power Probe IV or noid light, but the scope makes this 1000 better.

[@d.d4184]

Very nice video thank you.

[@SS-U23]

Thank you Mr. Paul, that was really a fascinating demonstration that I hadn't known about. You are my dream instructor. God bless

[@arthurfricchione8119]

Excellent video Paul. Really like the new format. Nice info to know on my 3.5 Hondas. First time IV heard anyone mention it . Thanks 👍👍👍❤️

[@300TwinTurbo1]

I do a lot of work on BMW and I ran into one that had an injector leak while the engine was off so buddy went away for a week and when he returned try to start it no go it wouldn’t even turn it hydro lock the engine long story short the car was going to scrap yard for “SEIZED” Engine missed diagnosed I like your videos you go all the way to the root I love it great work!

[@PicassoPete]

What a crafty computer.. lol. Clever these Japanese! Great video, more food for thought.

[@israelzunigamascorro9300]

excellent video Mr Danner. thank you for sharing your knowledge. God bless you every day

[@iannsalise4221]

Everything here is already explained to sir danner yeah i agree it was intentionally shutdown by the computer only you can diagnose this problem if your verry long time of this job in the field.

[@robertmartz9812]

In GM's , this condition is accompanied by the cooling fan commanded on by ECU as well .

[@Nomadman4life]

Gotta love this guys teaching . Can’t say enough great things about your vids dude. You teach me so much . Thank you 👍🏻

[@academia_diag]

COMO SEMPRE... OUTRO VÍDEO EXCELENTE. PARABÉNS

[@TheGibby3340]

Have you considered subtitling off mic questions from you students? Just in case we miss the question, in order to put your answers in context. Thanks as always.

[@ScannerDanner]

I have been working on making sure you guys can hear my students questions and also repeating them for you guys as well. Believe it or not, this video is from 2016. The 2018 stuff I am recording now is really, really good. Multiple cameras and when a student asks a question, I switch to another mic. Thank you!

[@billyyoder8171]

Thank you Paul. Good job brother. I appreciate your videos. Have a good weekend.

[@brianwinter1453]

I love a lapscope on injectors watch ramp an drop an look fpr that little hump lol if you have tested a injector circuit on single one you can tell if its mechanical are electric

[@saiedabushadi4012]

Thanks Paul that’s new to me after all these years of automotive fixing experience

[@ahmedalgryane8721]

Nice job 👍👍👍👍👍

[@richsmith7821]

rodents are very likely culprits,customers dont like to know they have rats though lol

[@halwesth0]

Wow this can save a customer too much money this infos are very valuable thanks paul

[@87corvair]

Hey i am working on a 2013 charger 5.7 police car. The injector driver circuit #6 has ohms the same as the other injectors. But Cyl 6 doesn't fire, and then it does an intentional shutdown on cyl deact on cyl 6. Cause the injector doesn't fire im assuming. I cant find any info really telling me anything about that. And I cant find any reason cyl 6 injector wouldnt be firing. You are the man that is for sure. It took me a minute to figure out what was happening. Now I just don't understand why.

[@87corvair]

I'm assuming since I try and restart car, I never get an injector pulse on restart like this honda that the pcm is bad. I just kinda wanted to know a little better that that's it.

[@ScannerDanner]

What is your injector control wire voltage when measured at the ECM, backprobing, with ECM plugged in, key on, engine off? Compare to a known working injector too. You should be seeing battery voltage

[@87corvair]

Well I did a little more digging on internet and found people with 05 pickup have same problem. After changing mds solenoid, and changing spark plugs, coils, and injectors around still get this code p1416. Well I found those people pulled # 11 fuse, which turns out to be a pcm fuse. So that's like # 35 on this charger. It reset the pcm and everything works now. But if you could make a video or explain what the heck is going on there. I mean I know what I did, I just don't understand what that does or why. And you are the man at explaining that stuff. I can pay I just really want to learn what is going on there.

[@87corvair]

I was going for the sigs at ecm but you got to pull all that crap off the connector to backprobe it and I found that fuse thing first. Thank you for the reply, so I wanted to let you know I got it.

[@peterotieno5365]

How can l join your class from Kenya you are great teacher.

[@ScannerDanner]

www.scannerdanner.com/join-scannerdanner-premium.html

[@keithdimaquibo4387]

I wanna be like you!

[@fegmihamedlafi5051]

What a master! You are the best diagnostician I ever seen

[@ScannerDanner]

thank you!

[@nigelclark7360]

More good stuff

[@mrcarexpert20]

Love to watch this guy specially when he is explaining I wish I take few classes with u

[@aliabasabasali7516]

yes true i seen this in some cars where miss fire could cause the car to shutdown engines thanks man brilliant work

[@redapproves1330]

Not a car guy. Whatever is under the hood all look like a maze to me. But somehow, I was able to follow along and sometimes predict the next diagnostic action before SD reveals the next step. I think it's because ScannerDanner is a great teacher who guides us with a clear, logical, problem-solving mindset. Doubt if I'll ever put this knowledge to use but really enjoyed the lesson. Thanks!

[@ScannerDanner]

Awesome!

[@throttlebottle5906]

I have seen bad injector coils(shorted/low resistance) cause driver/ecm to heat up and not work, but that was back in the days of throttle body injection, which usually meant the whole car suddenly quit, let it cool and it would run again for a while, then eventually burn the ECM/driver permanently. I suppose it's possible with today's setups, but likely very rare due to all the integrated circuits and compact surface mount parts.

[@ScannerDanner]

the difference in identifying that condition would be to simply shut the car off and restart it

[@obsoleteprofessor2034]

I have a 92 4 cyl Camry w 450k miles that I've owned over 15 years. Twice I had misfires and the car immediately overheated and had great loss of power. On one night, the cat was glowing red and the other (day) time oil was smoking off the second cat under the car. I think the computer has limited brain (what was avail in those days) and kept the injector squirting even though the plug was fouled. The ox sensors told the computer it was running rich so it probably cut back on fuel. With the continued misfire, no amount of leaning would bring the ratio into norm so it continued to lean it more... Hence the overheating. Both times I changed the plugs and it ran perfectly afterward. It would be nice if the programming logic was released to techs. I barely discovered and have subbed your channel. My thanks to you for such great detail and the explanation of the waveforms on the scopes.

[@ScannerDanner]

Thank you!

[@waynetaylor2231]

I’m a professional tech for 15 years know shortcuts but my mind was blown with this!!!!! I’m a new subscriber but we can never stop learning. Keep doing what your doing you are helping all of us in the shops keeping our customers on the road much appreciated for the knowledge. Feel back in school again

[@ScannerDanner]

thanks so much wayne!

[@Pablo_Automotive]

Thanks for share this class Paul, Regards =)

[@roadkill5333]

Very good!! Do you allow observers in class!! ASKING FOR A FRIEND!! Lol

[@ScannerDanner]

of course!

[@michaeladjebu8421]

hi mr paul danner i am a a student on scannerdanner premium, let me start by saying thank you for giving me hope and a career to pursue. God bless for your knowledge and my you never lack.....amen i have a 2012 ford fiesta with a 1.6l engine with a cam sensor code. i have checked the cam sensors with an oscilloscope and i have signals on both the inlet and exhaust cam sensors..... knowing that a faulty crank sensor can set a false cam code, i pursued on to check the cranks and thats fine too. when the cam sensors are unplugged, the bais voltage i learnt from your class is there on both sensors..... Could this be a potential PCM problem or faulty software perharps? pls help me our sir and i do hope for a rapid response from you...... thank u very much Sir and keep up your Good work....... God bless you for the work you are doing. this is Michael your online student from Accra Ghana

[@ScannerDanner]

Calvin, thank you so much! Post this to my forum my friend. We can definitely help you better there. It is too hard to do research and back and forth support emails here and it is what you will need to pinpoint this issue. www.scannerdanner.com/forum/post-your-repair-questions-here.html

[@nemanjadzombic6101]

Perfect video literally. There is no perfect in this world I know but this is the farthest as diagnostics video can go in quality in all aspects. That is the case with all of your videos. I'm sure there are diagnosticians as good as you are, but for transfering that knowledge, there is no match to your videos. Greetings from Serbia.

[@ScannerDanner]

Wow thank you from Serbia!!

[@tanyawheatley7905]

Hi Danner. I have a stumper actually maybe u can help? I've watched your videos & subscribed to your channel & altho I'm referencing them I've not quite found one that is EXACTLY what my jeep is doing. I've half-assed searched for tsbs on my vehicle & have called the dealership for help & no one has the time to sit down & look to see if any has been distributed. And long story short I'm not making enough money to have a garage TRY to fix it & the fix doesn't actually fix the problem then pay for an unnecessary repair that costs 500 & up just to turn around & take it back for another repair that didn't fix the issue either & another 500 etc on & on & it still has the same issue. I'm not a mechanic but have some knowledge of automotives having worked in parts for aftermarket ad well as the dealerships for 18 years. So with that said I'm pretty confident you could really shorten any more time that I continue to look for my problem. Can u give me a shot?

[@ScannerDanner]

What's it doing? Provide year,make, model, engine and codes too please

[@tanyawheatley7905]

@@ScannerDanner 2005 jeep grand Cherokee 5.7 Purchased less than year ago. Problems. I've been having starting problems thought to b related to battery being dead so after jump would continue on then then if I left door open too long the battery would die need jump & problem worsened to not being able to jump it all. Checked fuses the only fuse not getting any power was fuel injector fuse so after researching it I found where the add relay could b an issue. Replaced it worked fine again. Drive it about 110 miles & about 8 hrs ready to drive it back it wouldn't start. Friend drove up with another ass relay still would not start. Mind u the 1st time I replaced relay u could not hear the fuel pump priming. So had it towed home. Where it sits now still no power to fuse. And I'm not real good at reading those meters. I've physically looked for an open or exposed wire but can only see so far and the fuel pump is not priming either. Sposedly when my jeep was dropped off my friend put his scanner on it & no codes were coming up. And also my check engine like had come on & stayed on for about a week before the add relay was replaced the 1st time. And a couple times before that it had come on & gone off intermittently. Also the previous owner replaced the crank position sensor and it needs the front differential bushings/mount kit replaced(3 pcs) and I just learned of a recall I need to take in for jeep to do related to a software issue with the airbags. And one last thing my on board computer was saying something about my brakes & my transmission. Hope I didn't confuse u. The problem I'm having is that it cranksbut won't start can't hear fuel pump priming but couldn't hear it before we replaced the relay & the problem was fixed til now

[@tanyawheatley7905]

ASD relay not add relay.

[@ScannerDanner]

@@tanyawheatley7905 we need to move this to my forum www.scannerdanner.com you are describing multiple issues here and as you can see it is difficult for me to offer back and forth emails/messages here. It is free to join my forum. First thing you need to do is to confirm what you are missing. Spark, fuel pressure and injection pulse should be tested. Report your findings on the forum, along with the year, make and model and any trouble codes and that the problem is a no start and we can help you further

[@tanyawheatley7905]

Ok sorry for delay ...so my jeep is 05 grand Cherokee 5.7 the fuel injector fuse port is only getting 3amps. I wonder can a hard vibration from front differential bushing mounts cause my crank position sensor to go bad? Would it possibly be related? Am I understanding right that cps is on separate circuit from fuel injectors? Also I've learned about the fdcm in these vehicles cause lights to come on relating the 4wdr & electronic brake control lights to light up in instrument panel & disable traction control etc I now hear something trying to engage underneath the vehicle when I turn the key on cause the person looking at it had pulled the handle for my 4wdr low. Anyway that's getting off subject. Yes there is multiple issues but not all of them are causing it to not start. One important question about my issue is this...if the fuel injector fuse port is only getting 3amps can I rule out fuel pump. I'm not sure I mentioned that no codes were coming up as if theres no communication somewhere. I was told, didn't see it myself but it kinda makes sense. Went out & got the distribution box & module attached to it this weekend so going to swap that out & cross my fingers. O one more thing there is a module located in rear of jeep above drvs side tail lamp where I read if there was accident it could trigger this box to cause my vehicle to not start that there is a reset button some where back there. Well that taillight housing needs to b replaced & there is dent in the area where the fuel door is. What do u know about that? And finally I guess if u need to put it on your forum to help me we can do that. What do I need to do? Hope I haven't confused u any more than I've confused myself at this point

[@wyattoneable]

That was a great lesson.

[@VorpalForceField]

I know this is off topic but I have been digging for a while and cant seem to find it.. I feel certain one of your videos I watched a few years back, you used a scrapped fuel tank pressure sensor as a pressure/pulse sensor for your scope. Can you please point me at that link.. Thank You for sharing your awesome work. Cheers

[@ScannerDanner]

found it kzbin.info/www/bejne/opbZhYlpjbJqqas Thank you!

[@stoneyburke2412]

You could have also synchronized your misfiring injector on the second channel with an ignition coil. That would work unless you had picked the one with the bad spark plug.

[@ScannerDanner]

Using an ignition event to sync an injection event is not something that is very useful in my opinion. The injector actually fires somewhere during the exhaust stroke. No where near the spark event. It is just to hard to use.