Funny ATC - Singcargo 7997 vs Kennedy ground controller KJFK JFK tower.flv

Funny conversation between Singcargo and ATC and JFK tower.

[@Kikkarapaa]

I commend the pilot for having the guts to ask all these questions. In aviation one always needs to ask when unsure. And the ATC should encourage this behavior.

[@jjaus]

I feel for the pilots though. It's busy up there. Then to have your departure changed means that you have to reprogram while you are taxiing. On top of that the ground seemed to change the normal taxi route. High work load while you are doing checks. Even if it annoyed the ATC guy, it's still best to check before you go hurtling into the sky at 300kph+. It's also a REALLY good idea to double check you have clearance before crossing a runway if you are not sure. It would make for a really big crash if you were wrong.

[@goytabr]

Agreed. The Singaporean pilot was professional to the end. He HAD to be absolutely sure of everything and each step - it was his duty. It would do no one any good to avoid asking for being afraid of pissing off the ATC man. He also remained calm, polite and especially objective, even when the ATC guy started being very rude and unprofessional. I understand that working in ATC is very stressful and controllers are only human, but if he can't handle the pressure, that controller should be doing something else.

[@bigdawg8369]

Andrey Sorokin As a controller I dont always have time to sit there and repeat myself to ONE aircraft all day long. If i have time I will but what pilots dont realize is that we have a lot more going on then what they hear. At the same time we issue instructions to aircraft we are also calling for releases so aircraft to certain destinations can takeoff. What this video doesnt show is all the other transmissions the controller made while not talking to him.

[@Phoebekeely]

bigdawg8369 I am always conscious of how busy ATC's are and I know that what we are hearing is just a small part of it. My impression was that this took place in the early hours of the morning, when not too much was going on. ATC even said at one point, "it's been a long night". Clearly, the Singcargo crew was unfamiliar with JFK, and his primary language was not English. I'm not easily intimidated, but I can see how Singcargo might have felt just a little. Nothing like intimidation to lead to a bit of self-doubt, then confusion, and possible error. That applies in all walks of life. Pilots have no special immunity. CRM came about after several incidents, some fatal, where the co-pilot could see a potential disaster developing, but took his chances and said nothing, rather than speak up and tell his intimidating bully captain, that a problem existed. Before my time, but this is what I imagine it would have been like. ATC should have gone over his flight plan, while Singcargo was still at the gate. I would fire this ATC guy before he causes an accident, assuming he still is an ATC.

[@bigdawg8369]

ATPL This guy was working local and ground combined. As ATC you have to be assertive at times to get what you need. Plus give the guy a break he probably was working the mid shift and was waiting for his relief to come. Morning push is usually the hardest part of the day.

[@stevegandalf4739]

ATPL Assuming the Singcargo pilot is from Singapore/Malaysia region of the world, I doubt he'd be familiar with the New York way of speaking - both the accent and the speed of speech. Ideally the ATC should have slowed down - he must know the pilot is from Asia Pacific.

[@jqxok]

I feel the controller was ridiculously unprofessional here. He gave confusing non-standard taxi clearances, and then he complains about the aircraft asking a lot of questions? If the pilot needs to know the name of an unfamiliar fix, then what is the problem? I hope it was just an example of him having an unusually bad night.

[@bigdawg8369]

How would you whats standard? Some times you have to use plain language with foreign carriers. Plus this video doesnt show all the other transmissions that the controller made.

[@jqxok]

bigdawg8369 Oh, I don't know, based on the contents of 7110.65? If you can show me that statements like "SingCargo, what's up?" are standard phraseology, I will concede my point. That controller was rude and unprofessional, plain and simple.

[@bigdawg8369]

jqxok It does not say that. However it does say you can use PLAIN LANGUAGE in lieu of proper phraseology if need be. Again, this video DOESNT show all the other transmissions the controller made during this time. But, only that btwn him and singcargo. Why dont you try and be a controller and see how much time it takes up and how much it slows down operations when you have someone that asks a question every few seconds or mins. Plus, having to repeat taxi instructions several times which he got the 1st time but keep confirming them the whole way. you must be one of those ppl that thinks they know how atc works.

[@jqxok]

bigdawg8369 For your point to be valid, you have to show there was an operational need to use "what's up?" You are just confirming my point: The controller got frustrated (natural), and as a result got angry and sarcastic (unprofessional).

[@bigdawg8369]

jqxok It doesnt have to be an operational need for your info. But, if you want to say it does then he was doing just that bc the co-pilot couldnt understand a damn word apparently. Did the controller get irritated some bc the co-pilot kept asking his taxi route yes. But, again here is the thing. If he wasnt sure of his taxi route prior even starting he should have asked. But did he do that NO he felt the need to ask every few mins about his route. He read back the correct route, so he shouldnt have had to call back. Again, try being a controller and have pilots call you back every min about a taxi route. You would never get anything done on ground control. I bet you think the controller at ATL got an attitude with the delta pilot to huh.

[@MerleOberon]

Sounds like the controller had too much cawfee

[@RehdClouhd]

That controller isn't funny- he's a jerk

[@crc94]

This controller is so hateful and arrogant, he fills his clearances with unnecessary words and phrases like uhm, ehm, you know what, you don't mind that and al that bla bla bla just to confuse and put pressure on a pilot clearly not much confident with the airport. Someone should tell him to stop acting like this...

[@timames4405]

+Ale Cr If you ever listen in to the Air Traffic Controllers at LHR, they always slow down for the foreign national crews who are likely to be unfamiliar with the airport, etc.

[@yvesd_fr1810]

I have been a radio (voice and morse) in the army (armored company), years ago. These guys at the tower do not respect the first rule of radio transmission (vocal) that is to speak reasonably slowly, but loud and clear especially when communicating with people who do not natively speak english (or french in my case).

[@duck_that_quacks]

YvesD_fr Singaporeans natively speak English

[@twistluv]

good to ask when unsure. Good! better safe then sorry!

[@gergelyszabo6774]

This controller is a stupid annoying guy.

[@Phoebekeely]

Yep! Agreed. Impatience is not a desireable quality in an air traffice controller.

[@wbl2012]

Sounds like the jerky boys somehow got on the ground control frequency.

[@parcans]

This exchange is sampled in the song "Microburst Alert" from the band OSI. Cool to hear where it came from.

[@gaborholtzer8784]

ohh yes

[@ellenlin4538]

The ATC should learn how to communicate effectively and emotion control before doing the job.

[@buzztp5119]

As the story goes a senior British Airways pilot had just landed in Frankfurt Germany after the airport had a lot of new construction in the 1980's.The air traffic controller told him to taxi to his gate and the plane sat for a few second and the controller said "I told you to taxi to your gate." The pilot responded that he was looking it up on his map to witch the controller said "Haven't you ever flown to Frankfurt before?" The British pilot said "Yes I have. In 1943 but I didn't land !"

[@shawnmclean7932]

I just had a few things to drop off.

[@gavinsingh4450]

Highly doubt that happened, based on ages and retirement age during that time frame!!!

[@putraboyarepeace2097]

very bad altitude for air controller..

[@worldaviation4k]

That was terrible. By the way, never be afraid to ask the tower if you are not sure. Even heathrow ATC who are very busy have time and are calm when talking to people. In my time of filming there for the ATC i've never heard an annoyed tower controller, i've filmed funny things like the tower asking a pilot to try and get his friends attention through the window and things like that though.

[@uditabhattacharya2824]

do you have the clip of the attention incident on youtube anywhere?

[@worldaviation4k]

@@uditabhattacharya2824 hi, I forget what I was talking about but I've put some ATC videos on my channel, maybe the top 3 best videos

[@ge1983]

I`m an English teacher to aviation in Brazil. In this situation I`d say that the pilot is doing the right thing. I always instruct my students that CLARIFYING is the most important thing in aviation as well as reading back. Besides, Controlers should be more patient and speak slower. I know it takes more time, but it might avoid endless repetitions.

[@brayanE27182]

Lufthansa (In German): Ground, what is our start clearance time? Ground (In English): If you want an answer you must speak in English. Lufthansa (In English): I am a German, flying a German airplane, in Germany. Why must I speak English? Unknown (Other plane, In English): Because you lost the bloody war!

[@Associated25]

I like it when sing cargo says "okay" after ground gets mad at him. (:

[@aaronrodgers77]

I understand why some of you view the controller as arrogant and rude, but this is just how people from the NY/NJ/Conn. area speak. Very direct, and quick. At JFK, there are so many planes that it really screws up the ATC's flow if he has to repeat himself constantly. I think he was respectful for much longer than many others would have been.

[@Anna_Stetik]

It had nothing to do with how quick he spoke, it had to do with him sighing, and being an asshole. Yes, their jobs are stressful, so are the pilots who are carrying multiple passengers. He can talk as fast as he wants, but there is no need to come back with, "I'm sure in 30 seconds you'll have more questions", that's not being "direct", that's being a prick.

[@aaronrodgers77]

SerenityFL Yes, I am very aware that pilots have stressful jobs-I am seeking my private pilots license at the moment. That being said, the pilot (obviously experienced since he is a cargo pilot for a major entity) should dealt with this in a more appropriate manner. It should not take that long to remember a small amount of information.

[@Phoebekeely]

jeff cowen If this is your opinion at a private pilots level, I can tell you that aviation is not a career for you. It's one thing flying in and out of a regional/private airfield with one runway, and a single parallel taxiway. It's another taxiing around an airport as vast as JFK, where the primary language might not be your language, being given instructions that are barked at you and not as clear as you might like, and while you are taxiing around this maze, you have a flight plan change. Also factor in that it could be an aircraft as large as a B747, and not your C152/172. I can tell you now that you will not be able for it. You will see what I mean when you first fly into an unfamiliar airfield in your light training aircraft. You will be doing it in VFR conditions too. Then try doing it during heavy rain, or snow, or fog, and at night.

[@aaronrodgers77]

ATPL Wow, yes, you are right. I reread my comment and it's actually really stupid. My mistake. I don't intend on becoming an airline pilot anyway though.

[@domsaleo]

They should be Very well prepared for everything on the days flight. This shouldn't be a surprise of what they need to do. Traffic gets pretty hectic at JFK.

[@moonstriker1377]

he himself wasn't giving clear instructions. Props to the SQ cargo pilot who remained calm n professional.

[@timames4405]

There is nothing funny in this. There's a tired Air Traffic Controller and pilot who is probably unfamiliar with the routings and wants reassurance.

[@marcovelazquez9426]

I would LOVE to see this controller trying to give and read back instructions in Spanish or Chinese as a second language without having some doubts from time to time… I once had an approach controller at jfk being condescending with me because I asked him to repeat vector instructions ONCE

[@davit25]

Y'know, I'm tryin to work witcha, and awwl night it's bopata bopata bah.

[@Lucpol1986]

Bro sounds like he's sitting with a cold one, smoking a short one, in his 'hood' and not as a controller at an airport... Wont last long with that attitude & professionalism...

[@gaborholtzer8784]

At 3:43 that exact conversation is in OSI's song Microburst Alert. Listened to that song like a million times, this is an enormous WTF

[@Phoebekeely]

For all of you who are correcting the Partham to Putnam.....................I KNOW!!!!! I didn't type this and I don't know how to correct it. So you can all relax. The error has been noted.

[@alphajet2145]

It's not the "SITA" but the "SID" for Standard Instrument Departure.

[@MrHajimeHitoshi]

PUTNAM not PARTHAM

[@Bobrogers99]

Pilots for whom English is not their native language and a tired, impatient ATC. It's a good thing they weren't in the midst of an emergency.

[@pancholip]

Heres why the controller is annoyed - Tower controllers are not supposed to be fixing flight plans while planes are on the way to the runway. Such things need to be sorted out before the plane even starts taxing. Questions regarding taxing were legitimate and pointed to the ground controller.

[@willsonnss]

the atc must be very clear voice and not rushing people

[@simmer484]

Why are there so many videos of jfk controllers being rude, abrupt, aggressive, pushy, call it what you like, is this something unique to new york controllers?

[@Tindometari]

I can see you're not familiar with New Yorkers.

[@yulianussituru4872]

3:17 SingCargo you gonna kill me what do you want now?? Haha

[@mokanlines]

The controller is a prick!

[@golfman6122]

most american controllers are

[@efoxxok7478]

Moto Fan wow I'm having a hard time with this one... I personally know hundreds of controllers, and only one or two would I say are ever being jerks. Maybe one or two more who are occasionally jerks. But the vast Majority I have known will bend over backwards to help any pilot out. That being said, this guy was, at least here, being a jerk, and his complaint about singcargo having so many questions is entirely his fault. He should have said "amendment to your routing when ready to copy". Then when the pilot said he was ready he should say "cleared to... via direct (fix) Foxtrot India X-ray...etc. as previously cleared". Doing this would have prevented all the other questions and confusion.

[@fernandog.ramirez.6917]

I think I like to fly on Charlie, delta and golf...

[@user-tw2qk3bi5g]

And everything could have been so fine if the controller just would have yoused standard phrases...

[@AkiraAkiyama]

Those guys are killing the controller lol

[@gasaholic47]

Welcome to NYC. Leave all your preconceived notions at the door. ;-)

[@spagmo87]

So the ATC guy was operating both the ground and tower frequency? Is that normal at such a busy airport? If pilots don't hear much activity on their frequency then it's understandable for them to think the ATC isn't too busy and they can ask a few extra questions. If the Singcargo had realised the controller was dealing with stuff on Tower too then maybe he wouldn't bother him so much. The problem is with the system.

[@p0esbek]

I appreciate the information. Thank you.

[@kevinren10]

i hear this atc guy at jfk all the time, and he sounds so pissed all the time

[@justthinkingthoughts]

i am not an atc so i will not compare myself directly to him and his work, but i do some support to a gameserver and i totally understand him, i am extremly patient but sometimes some people annoy you really hard by asking the same thing over and over again, especially when (and don't think i am a racist) they sound like they won't understand it even when they pretend to understand. But he shouldn't complain at the pilot, more he should ask him calm and close to write down everything for sure!

[@rgiaco777]

This was some of the fastest, most careless and most nonstandard English I've ever heard over ATC. I hope that controller by now has realized that he will get more flies with honey than with vinegar. Plus, he's clogging up his own frequency and making his job harder.

[@remycallie]

So the tower would like to intimidate pilots into not confirming information or asking questions if they're not 100% sure or if they forgot something? Because it would be better to just make a mistake than to annoy the ATC again?

[@wareagle8381]

Totally correct. He makes us all look bad. Those guys just show off for youtube now. They need to shut down LiveATC.

[@erauprcwa]

true, but if you are legitimately lost like this crew (haven't rewatched the video, it's been a few months) then it's also the responsibility to ATC to at least track you down and tell you where to go. Many accidents have happened due to this, pilots and tower not communicating and then an accident occurs

[@edenbriand8]

That controller sounds like Jay Z !

[@rsin757]

As an Air Traffic Controller working for the FAA...I am very embarrassed. I am not perfect with my phraseology but I strive to show a little more professional courtesy than that. *sigh*

[@VxMAX]

The guy is barely on Alpha let alone Whiskey or crossing the 13L mark...just curious to why the ATC is asking him of what he will do once he is in the air? If he's ground aren't those questions saved for the Departure/Arrival guys?

[@theseakite2]

The pilot was a gentleman, the controller a jerk, should be fired.

[@HERNANBACK]

The last controller, he needs to sleep more....

[@erauprcwa]

A progressive taxi is requested and the tower stays with you the entire time telling you every step to get to your taxi destination. Basically, its the towers job to make sure you execute instructions, for this situation, there was a language gap and the pilot needed a little help with all the information given. Also from my experience sometimes instructions are read clear over the radio, I've had to ask for the controller to say again, broken transmission.

[@airliners88]

what a rude controller, you know what, that Singcargo pilot must be shocked from contoller's attitude, as he NEVER confronted like that substandard behaves at his own Country.

[@WildlifeObsessed]

And then you take it out on Avianca 20. Jeeeeesh !

[@SpeedyBK]

Guess the controller needs some holiday.

[@nickazzopardi7925]

That sounds like my dad when he's talking to me.

[@737CargoGuy]

Another Crazy Day at Kennedy intl. :D

[@devin323323]

This concludes our presentation of "The Ugly American".

[@rgiaco777]

I'm not saying that they're bad controllers. I'm simply saying that THAT particular day, THAT particular controller made the situation worse by getting frustrated and throwing ICAO standard English out the window. And by the looks of it, there are multiple commenters that agree with this observation. Enough with the name-calling.

[@dragon32210]

Better for the pilot to ask than have an accident

[@eviLempire2013]

You're killin me.

[@alexhortdog95]

LMAO - YA KILLIN ME! lol

[@pakkinen]

ATC must be having a bad day...he should be (and they usually are) more patient

[@stevegandalf4739]

Can't some of the ATCs from the north east USA speak a little more slowly and try to tone down the NY/NJ accent? Here in UK I can't imagine an ATC speaking to planes with a strong regional accent - their training would have removed it long before they went live with real traffic. Funnily enough, though I watch enough tv and movies, I never realised how fast some NY/NJ people speak, although the accent is very recognisable.

[@cskamoskva]

I understand ATC needs pilots to be sharp and attentive, but there's nothing worse than making a pilot uncomfortable with asking for clarifications. How f-ing useless would it be for a runway incursion to occur simply because the pilot was too embarrassed to re-check confusing directions with ATC.

[@erauprcwa]

That controller is a douche. I'd rather have an aircraft call me back a billion times to do something right rather than not ask one question and kill somebody...

[@cmtedito]

Couldn´t agree more. That´s nonstadard english together with nonstandard attitude. Singcargo´s pilot is just being carefull while in a big foreign hub. I hope this controller is no longer "in business".

[@ghs2011ful]

Just out of curiosity, did the Singcargo pilot ask another question within 30 seconds after the last transmission?

[@punchoo]

Most of the experienced pilots do not write down the instructions in a complex taxi maze!!! I am sure the sing cargo was just the same

[@londonbalcita3681]

It's not SITA. It's SID. Standard Instrument Departure.

[@yerkinmukhamejan2205]

Sita is Operational flight plan provider, OFP called

[@stanwent2287]

Yes, I have only one aircraft to take care of. However, I wil for sure say: "request progressive taxi instructions, pilot unfamiliar with the airport" the next time I talk to a rude controller like that. One point, however: the point is Putnam, note Partham. It's ICAO standard to use identifiers for point to navigate to, not names of the city. My airline has a habit when flying into US to actually write down the city names ot those points (VOR's, we call them) so that we know what ATC tells us.

[@lydiahoggarth]

When I was flying 768's for Delta PacificWays back in...oh...1997, I ran across this ATC at Texas International Airport, TAX who was a total douchebag. He taxied us onto 27left front trunk road, and I knew that was wrong. I jumped from the aircraft, climbed the tower stairs, and punched him in the nose. Since that day, I've been medicated with some very good stuff.

[@machine2035]

I won't be flying there if I am going to have a controller yell at me for having a genuine question which if not answered, could damage the aircraft that I am the PIC of! I can tell you now, Australia is full of pilots with an overseas background, mainly asian due to the airline cadet programs, and the controllers are always curteous and willing to help. You can see my opinion is not a personal one held by only myself, just look at the other comments posted on the video.

[@sebastianrekdal]

03:46 partham? its PUTNAM VORTAC, 110 NM north - north west of KJFK

[@denzelpinto9236]

Lmfao!....Now i'm sure in 30 secs you'll have another question but continue to the runway... Okay! : )

[@kmo6708]

Amusing recording the ATC bloke did his job how he did it good or bad is matter of opinion. Yes you could hear he was getting annoyed which may put pilots off asking questions. But from outside view it was far more entertaining to hear this than when everything goes normal.

[@wokeupandsmellthecoffee214]

Awesome....

[@dwightneisler3844]

There is more than one aircraft. The controller was being as helpful as he could but you don't have time to hold the pilots hand. ATC is done in English and if you can't be fluent then don't fly in a foreign country.

[@AceYYC]

the inaccuracy of the transcription is pissing the hell out of me

[@JUANPABTS]

Sorry guys, I am a pilot and I do not speak English perfectaly. It would be nice if the controlers speack a little slowler

[@Someone-dv8uj]

What I'd love to know, is if this ATC guy is still working there and if so, is he still a frontline ATC guy? Scary to think that he might be. In our strange world, he's probably been promoted and responsible for all ATC in North America. If you are on a flight from JFK - ORD one day and find that you've been diverted to Haiti, you'll know then, and that he has thrown yet another one of his tantrums.

[@hcdenton]

Aiyoh tower, why you so like that?

[@cecilkorik]

I think that pilots pick up on controllers who are getting extra sloppy with their phrasology and start to wonder if they are being sloppy with other things as well, and they start to get nervous and second-guess and double-check. In this case he clearly told 7997 to turn LEFT on alpha, but it was a right turn he needed to do. At that point as a pilot I would be questioning everything he was telling me. The controller is making a lot of extra work for himself by rattling off wrong info.

[@yulianussituru4872]

The atc tower must be patient,, as well as the pilot..

[@mihell85]

Controller was out of order. The pilot is likely from Singapore and a non native English speaker. The controller used American slang, non standard phraseology on the RT and spoke far too fast. You could just about get aware with it with a JFK based AA or DL crew but expecting a guy from Singapore to understand this rubbish is over the top. Maybe if he used standard RT his message might have been understood the first time. "Singcargo what's up?" I mean really!

[@rsin757]

Its not about being impatient but some times we just need pilots to get the instructions down the first time. But we controllers do need to help the pilots by rambling off instructions like crazy.

[@stargazer7644]

Ok, I watched it to the end, still waiting for the funny part. Unless you mean the inaccurate captions at the end? Nobody said that.

[@Phoebekeely]

+Star Gazer Wow! Must be awful to be so tightly wrapped, and so precise. Funny can also mean....."difficult to explain or understand; strange or curious". If your reading skills were as sharp as your negativity, you would have read that I had no input over the captions. Have a nice day!

[@rookiebird9382]

4:05 hold short of 22R

[@bobross1550]

I've been listening to these things for 15 minutes and I am NEVER flying. I don't understand what the pilots are saying, I don't understand what the atc's are saying, and i have no idea how there are not about 746363638490000000 plane crashes a second. My legs and my car will do just fine thank you.

[@Minecraftmike5089]

its half structured communications, half readbacks. Callsign, Instruction. Callsign, Roger, Readback. Callsign, Roger. Like "ABC123 Taxi A then B hold short C" The pilot starts listening when ABC123 is called, otherwise its just tuned out. Then, since he is expecting a taxi, he remembers "A, B, Hold short C". Then to make sure, he says it back. The controller will then verify its good or read it again. If you watch, non standard communications that are not expected are 99% read-back. Thats why when you call mayday, you *should* say "Mayday Mayday Mayday, THIS IS ABC123, ABC123, ABC123" And a lot of these radio recordings are terrible shit since the receiver is on the ground. Its clearer in the air.

[@emtneto]

It's still the safest way to travel, by plane. If you were a pilot you'd understand all of that. So don't worry, as long as the pilots and the controllers understand, everything is fine

[@bobross1550]

I dont eat that shit

[@emtneto]

bob ross ok, so don't get on a plane... I'm a pilot and I do understand everything they are saying and talking about

[@credence7777777]

bob ross "746363638490000000 plane crashes a second" let's see: bearing in mind that the surface of the earth is 510,072,000,000,000 square meters, and assuming that a plane crash only took up 10m^2, you would use up the surface area of 14,630 planets per second with your estimate, or well over 4.5 trillion planets full of crashed planes in the last 10 years (that's more planets than there are in 10 of our milky way galaxies), although, assuming that each of these planets also carried only 7 billion people on them, you would run out of people to kill in less than 1 10-billionth of a second, so mortality would drop significantly in the 2nd 10-billionth. not much room for your legs and your car with all that death raining down on you...

[@winni223]

He'd better look for a calmer place to work... IMHO. IN

[@TheLeeqeend]

Just wow.... :D

[@Phoebekeely]

You have no need to be embarrassed. I don't believe in "Guilt by association".

[@richardsaunders7803]

When will they fire that controller who is a threat to air safety and does not want to do his job.

[@Phoebekeely]

Have you considered therapy then??? I can't think of anything that would annoy me that much.

[@ThePilotman329]

In FAA phraseology it's point !!!

[@MrPceneviva]

I would like to introduce Boston John to this guy,,,

[@WildlifeObsessed]

Tower - did you have to be so objectionable or was this just PMT. Formal Warning at the very least.

[@ThePilotman329]

As well as fewer traffic.... Doh...

[@ahmadsamadzai4715]

I think this guy needs a cigarette break.