INTENSE ARGUMENT | Pilots VS Moody Controller at JFK!!

[@VASAviation]

*PLEASE READ* It's 8 hours after the video was published and I have gotten to talk to the controller in this video. He's been really nice with me and we have chatted for a while. He says he has been featured on VASAviation numerous times - emergencies, close calls and funny exchanges - and now this. He claims to be a normal guy trying to always do his best. He doesn't want to go deeper into the topic but this tense exchange is past and will learn from it for the future. He actually caught me editing a PART 2 from the night after this video in which he can be heard being nice to everybody and even having a really funny exchange with a pilot. Stay tuned for that. Doesn't stop to amuse me the power of VASAviation and the great community we have created. Getting to talk to the real controller we're listening to is amazing, and getting to know his POV. Hopefully we're making aviation better and better together, even if we're watching videos from our armchair.

[@SteveJobsIsGod]

Relax, buddy.

[@tafan321]

@@SteveJobsIsGod Don't call me buddy, Pal.

[@SteveJobsIsGod]

@@tafan321 I’m not you pal, guy.

[@bamascubaman]

I'd have been sorely tempted to ask if I could buy him a cup of coffee to improve his attitude.

[@mathieub1200]

Want a number? 😬😡

[@reubensammichenjoyer]

He definitely sounds a little emotional but man, the FAA has to up the hiring so this guy isn't working delivery, ground, and tower at Kennedy by HIMSELF.

[@TheBeagle58]

That is completely the issue here, agreed 👍

[@miked51]

Talk about muti-tasking, one of the most important operations in the world.

[@tomarmadiyer2698]

Man carrying each plane on final descent on those mighty mighty shoulders.

[@algernonftw42]

It's overnight. Most towers with overnight shifts work everything combined to 1 position. This sounds like pretty simple ops for JFK honestly... I get the frustration from the ground ops and pilots not paying attention and making things more difficult, but... the ATC is pretty much being a d- I mean, a New Yorker, to everyone. Uncalled for attitude levels overall. Mids suck, but come on man.

[@classGfpv]

This guy is controlling the entire airport, just starting local circadian low, and frankly is a fantastic job. I wouldn't talk sh!t to this poor bastard. JFK should have two controllers at all times

[@DavidPruitt]

Rumor has it Delta maintenance is still asking for Pappa Alpha

[@smashy626]

Rumor also has it that Korean Air is still waiting for their flight plan.

[@jetpilot3714]

😂

[@aeternusdoleo4531]

Everything combined... single person monitoring. Is that not a single point of failure waiting to happen?

[@VASAviation]

Absolutely

[@Eddyspeeder]

100% this

[@tenkaraintheiowadriftless]

Yes, this. No matter how competent the controller, it’s a serious accident waiting to happen. Too bad that’s probably what it’s going to take to fix it.

[@Iamwatchingyou75]

It's understaffed for sure, even at 2 am. But ATC is technically always single point of failure.

[@philipnasadowski1060]

I'm thankfully amazed we haven't had a serious accident yet...but sadly, that day is coming.

[@srwilliams628]

The Delta Maintenance guys were killing me. That was more frustrating listening to that than the Aeromexico exchange

[@rickyism1576]

Wonder how much training they get on taxiing instruction.

[@VASAviation]

I have been told that the dude doing radios for that Delta Maintenance was new in the job.

[@lcf34]

and not even DELTA TUG 2

[@Eddyspeeder]

Papa, uh…

[@ts757arse]

Er.... Delta....De....lta.... Maintenance?

[@lcf34]

Copa 807 whilst reading back: this famous sweating pilot meme

[@Feh60169]

I was sweating that one also, but he did good lol for the most part.

[@techmantra4521]

@@Feh60169 Me meanwhile "What was the first bit again?"

[@Feh60169]

@@techmantra4521 Controller would have lost it "Say again"

[@techmantra4521]

@@Feh60169 I think at that point he'd have just had a stroke

[@flugjung]

@@lcf34 I have seen far worse. He simply botched the vectors to RBV part. BTW, it is the same departure clearance all southbound traffics get. Once flying to JFK one or two times, you get used to everything if your English is OK.

[@amirardalan1903]

dude sounded extremely relaxed despite working everything at JFK.

[@meyague]

I was surprised tbh, he was way more laidback than other ATC at less busy airports

[@sactoindyfan]

Not to me. It sounded like he was perturbed working all frequencies. And being a New Yorker…well 🙄🤣

[@chriscurtain1816]

@@sactoindyfan Agreed. But what a ridiculous workload and stress to put on one person at such a busy airport. There must be massive safety implications - by his bosses giving him so much responsibility, and by him accepting it. Having broadcast "everybody just relax", the conversation with AMX401 reminded me of 'Fawlty Towers' when Terry the chef said to Basil Fawlty "Take it easy Mr Fawlty".

[@FatGringo]

He's supposed to be controlling aircraft, not hearding cats. Given the quality he's working with, he's positively fucking zen

[@Qboro66]

Dude sounded extremely relaxed despite having a broom up his a**, sweeping up the place as well...😂

[@ccudmore]

In New York, he's just a normal guy. To everyone else he's moody.

[@wotan10950]

As a lifelong New Yorker, I appreciate direct feedback. We have no tolerance for bullshit. We don’t take it personally.

[@TedSchoenling]

@@wotan10950 down here we call it being an asshole... and we don't tolerate it. is that direct enough?

[@finchhawthorne1302]

@@wotan10950true.

[@geraldo209]

@@wotan10950in south America thats called being stupid, hope thats a good direct feedback for ya.

[@ze_pilot]

Literally came here to comment that

[@vaporized1000]

I mean homeboy is running the graveyard shift at one of the busiest airports in the world alone. Plus he is a New Yorker who arent known for their ability to tolerate bullshit. Honestly the controller probably thinks he is being rainbows and daisies to everyone, its a culture thing.

[@wotan10950]

As a lifelong New Yorker, I can agree with one thing: we have no tolerance for bullshit!

[@philwhipple4557]

@@wotan10950 Did you have Fruit Loops for breakfast?

[@wotan10950]

@@philwhipple4557Nope, I ate your sister 😂

[@shable1436]

I didn't hear much BS though, maybe it's the last word that new Yorkers need the worst😂

[@AviationJeremy]

Seeing the big picture, he absolutely was. The minutiae that he insists on is, in fact, important and he did excellently.

[@thatinventionsus]

The Controller was simply teaching Aeromexico how to get it done the next time or else Aeromexico will be holding everybody up during busier times. Not only was he going above and beyond, he was also speaking very clearly and slower than usual for international pilots. As far as tone/mood goes, he is a saint if you've ever been to NY.

[@reed785M]

Yup, AMX “captain” is soft

[@DillonDavis-j9g]

pilot here, i feel for this controller, guy is doing fine. keep up the good work ATC, one day youll get a correct readback.

[@yoopernow]

He sure took his time reading out that clearance. I EXPECT them to come out at a pace my pen can hardly deal with, lol.

[@grayrabbit2211]

I've dealt with far crankier controllers at Class Ds. And this poor controller is working JFK alone? Give him a raise even though he's making more than me

[@san2sfo]

💯 Give the guy a break. He’s working all positions at JFK! Kudos to him.

[@wileymarm0t]

You definitely hear the frustration in his voice. Frustration with the pilots failure in accurate read-BACKS, failure in ground for not listening, failure to follow procedure despite repeated reminders, being reprimanded by a pilot that could not accept that he might be at fault, having to show up to work knowing that you get to do everything for several hours at one of the busiest airports in the USA. That guy deserves a raise and a well earned vacation!!

[@JoshJones-37334]

And a kick in the posterior.

[@deeseeeit]

Exactly. A raise and at the same time “hasta la vista baby”. I will take his position and treat those airmen as they deserve.

[@davenz000]

From a layman's perspective, the controller was fine. English as a second language speakers seemed to be the problem.

[@reed785M]

@@deeseeeithe didn’t treat them bad, AMX is just soft. No one cares if the pilot doesn’t like ATCs mood 😂

[@ITripReport]

As a Mexican, I can already picture exactly the conversation both pilots were having on that plane. And it aint nice things 😂

[@serg2963]

I'm laughing my ass off thinking about it! They are right though... that controller sucks and is way overworked.

[@MrAlejandro767]

😂🤣😂😂

[@cmaylo]

@@serg2963controller sucks? Nah mate, AMX pilots suck with their poor readbacks. The controller sounds relaxed to me, AMX pilots need to stfu with their comments. Do your job correctly then you can make comments.

[@serg2963]

@@cmaylo I won't argue with you.

[@krazyzito6274]

Probably started with Pinche ATC no mames Ca....😅

[@mlichstein1]

Korean is still waiting for their clearance to this day

[@aquilotti1987]

That had me dying laughing 😂😂

[@maxsalman783]

"It's been 84 years"

[@JahongirHaitov]

After you readback your runway clearance wrong, you better not be the guy schooling the ATC

[@dimi6629]

its probably the FO who messed up. and the captain steped in to school the ATC but got cooked instead lol

[@pseudocoder78]

@@dimi6629 Totally, he was like "I don't like how you're treating my FO" and ATC is like "well maybe he shouldn't be such a fuckup" lol

[@johnhutto71]

Mr Aeromexico pilot, telling someone to relax NEVER EVER makes someone relax. It is guaranteed to really piss someone off though.

[@Naamenrugnummerbekend]

Moet hij weten,relax and enjoy

[@seanmccambridge]

True, but the controller told everyone to relax before AMX said it back to him.

[@timwitt94]

@@seanmccambridgeyes because people are keying up at the same time, on the graveyard shift. Gotta respect tower he’s doing his best. And pilots shouldn’t be so soft

[@Elkadetodd]

I told my wife to "relax" once 33 years ago. She's still a little mad about it.

[@cmans79tr7]

​@@Elkadetodd- Said every husband ever😂

[@hokiepilot4286]

“Moody” controller? Wrong title. Korean calling before flight plan in the system, Delta Maintenance unable to repeat instructions after multiple calls, AeroMex pilot WRONGLY saying 13R/13L and wanting to be correct instead of STFU, Copa Pilot missing RV/Direct…the guy is working Clearance/Ground/Tower at 2AM this controller is the calmest New Yorker I have heard recently LOL

[@RosemaryParrott-v7e]

He sounds very weary

[@jayhsu2412]

@@RosemaryParrott-v7e Weary but his attention to detail on readbacks is spot on, I didn't hear a single mistake. All of the mistakes on freq. were from mostly foreign pilots.

[@mathieub1200]

I agree man Areomexico didn't readback the correct instruction + delta maintenance was a noob.

[@Zerbey]

I think that Delta maintenance guy is still circling around trying to find PF/PA. Give the man a map and a notepad and pen.

[@38911bytefree]

All this circus ligned up really bad

[@DanielV42]

Being a pilot and therefore more biased towards my colleagues I have to say that I don't really blame the controller all that much, when you consider he's on his own, with the maintenance guy a bit lost, the Chinese cargo calling for a clearance that is not required and the Koreans asking for their flight plan. Plus the mexico guys arguing about what was said at the beginning and frankly being cocky themselves with the waiting period, like the controller didn't tell them to F-off and take-off immediately or anything. I've had some moody controllers myself, and fighting on frequency serves no purpose and is out of place.

[@Val_Pal-03]

But the controller didn't have to be so rude, It's not the crews fault he's alone

[@imzanky6321]

​@@Val_Pal-03You're reading into it too much. His tone isn't all sunshine and rainbows boohoo. His job is to safely get everyone where they need to be, not make you feel all jolly inside.

[@DanielV42]

@@Val_Pal-03 Well it's not his fault either. Nevertheless, "Rude" is an exaggeration, he's not in the mood and you can tell, but as a professional you have to ask yourself if this controller having an attitude is an immediate danger to your operation, and in this case the answer is no, as such, fighting and arguing on frequency is pointless, and I would like to believe that we are all grown adults and we would not be offended by some controller being a bit salty, more so when looking at the broader picture.

[@dimi6629]

Hire more people. problem solved

[@Val_Pal-03]

​@@imzanky6321 His job is not to be moody

[@MisterAviation]

Kennedy Steve must save JFK

[@Bax60]

He retired and he won't come back

[@AldousC]

@@Bax60 He is still at the airport. Steve retired upwards.

[@blockbertus]

@@AldousC No, he is not. Watch video ID gzZYiPYsLyk (just copy and paste into youtube search) where he got interviewed recently.

[@SpaceGeek321]

@@Bax60 he came out of retirement to work ramp control "for fun" from what I've heard

[@Michigan_Adventures]

He's retired from ramp control since then!

[@willbaum7140]

Guy is working delivery, ground and tower..............give him a raise.

[@VASAviation]

Use that raise to hire one more

[@Quotenwagnerianer]

I really thought they only do this on Vatsim and was a bit shocked to see that they do that in the real world as well.

[@Arkayem]

​@@VASAviation Nah, give him a raise AND hire one more.

[@teknocraciaconglomerate372]

No, fire him and get a new one and with the rise hire a second one.

[@Clipper1094]

@@Arkayemuse the raise to hire one more, then after they’ve trained, fire him and hire 2 more with his salary lol

[@0101-s7v]

Holy cow, that ATC has a tough job and is doing it very well. Aeromexico need to check themselves.

[@nztv8589]

I've heard rude controllers but this guy just sounds polite and assertive to me

[@kaamsogrimm]

as soon as i seen the title i knew who this controller was lol. i deal with him everyday when im in the super tug taking jetblues planes back and forth 😂😂 gotta butter him up nice and good so he doesn't get on your case. 😂😂😂😂

[@SteveJobsIsGod]

Oh man he makes y’all wait unnecessarily ALL the time

[@VASAviation]

I'd love to meet and talk with him. He's a good controller. I have heard his voice earlier... but this time he really sounded moody. Of course it's night time, you're dealing with all the traffic at the airport, most of them are foreign... but try to have fun with it or make it yourself. It will be safer and it will be better for everyone.

[@kaamsogrimm]

@@SteveJobsIsGod i remember one i was at fox going to delta alpha (easy left bravo) that day was hectic asf he told me right on alpha because bravo was backed up and forgot to tell me to give way to landing company going into golf and started tearing off on me because of his mistake and his situational awareness was way off

[@kaamsogrimm]

@@VASAviation yeah he is a good controller , but he's literally moody every night i get it's an intensive job but none of the other controllers berate anyone this way like he does

[@SteveJobsIsGod]

@@kaamsogrimm wow! He seems competent but just sick of NYC. I live in Boston and am working as a delivery driver so I’m in traffic all day, I understand his pain!

[@oelschlegel]

And here I thought that controller was being exceptionally patient towards everyone.

[@loonylovesgood]

I was more annoyed with the pilots.

[@erauprcwa]

Thing I've learned about JFK/NYC, just do what they say. He's right about the 5 mile separation and the runway is 2 miles (equal 7). Just do a slow roll onto the runway and you have even more separation, which isn't a bad thing. If you want a delay takeoff, you ALWAYS tell ground/tower EARLY just in case they have conflicting traffic behind you, which messes up slot times. In JFK, you better plan ahead and know the ATC response BEFORE you key the mic on first contact.

[@Flies2FLL]

I'll give this controller a big credit for SPEAKING SLOWLY to foreign aviators! Good job man-

[@Johnny-Michael]

Only 1 guy working 3 frequencies at JFK?

[@salzstreuerdeluxe]

That was the thing I noticed first. IMHO this workload is way too much for one person, and it´s just a matter of time for a crash. Can´t believe it.

[@aaronhiggins986]

It’s 2am so it kinda makes sense. Still normal hours though, people taking off from the west coast at 6pm are landing in New York at 2am. Would probably be better if there was at least 1 other controller working ground and clearance delivery.

[@JPINFV]

What attitude from the controller? A brief, "Hey everyone, relax please, it's just me up here alone, so it's going to be a little slow because... there's a lot of work to be done" simply sets expectations. The tone is a "We need to get this right the first time because the work load is heavy." The worst would be when he gave the delivery, but if you understand that he's alone, then it's the tone of, "We can do this once slowly or fast quickly... and once slowly takes less time than multiple times going fast."

[@whatilearnttoday5295]

He has 6 minutes to hold them on the ground, but doesn't have a second for any miscommunications to be clarified.

[@pkelly3463]

Delta maintenance was golden....😂😂😂😂

[@flutetubamorg]

I was feeling it for that guy. Imagine you are 19 and your boss is telling you to talk to the tower and you just barely passed whatever test they make you take to go out there. Plus, since I mostly fly out of untowered airports, this is ME talking to ATC when I do go to a towered airport. I'm supposed to remember all the random syllables you just strung together? I'm just trying to go get a $100 cheeseburger for Pete's sake.

[@CallumAtwal]

Standard phraseology would help. But US ATC never want to.

[@EmotionalWeather]

@@CallumAtwalThats the thing. I am a PPL pilot and I have no clue what Tower tried to tell him.

[@A1FAHx]

@@flutetubamorgYou land at JFK and that $100 burger would seem like a bargain

[@38911bytefree]

I was waiting for the ATC to trigger on him pretty bad

[@DerekHardwick]

For those wondering he literally tells "Everyone" (so Aeromexico included) to "relax" @5:20.

[@carlosgarcialalicata]

I love how he calmly pronounced every word. For foreigners its really hard to get waypoints and other information when there are no pauses. That clearance should be shown to other controllers on how clearance have to be given to foreigners, pause after every word, spell fix and names... applause

[@gregellis3859]

For a Controller working Clearance delivery, ground and tower at JFK which is a very busy airport, I may be in the minority here, but I think this controller did a fine job.

[@jayhsu2412]

There are fewer departures and arrivals dead of night 1-5 am, mostly foreign airliners

[@clickster1883]

Concur. Controller was maybe a little salty, but not unprofessional at all. Considering his circumstances, Aeromexico should have shown him a little grace by keeping his boca shut.

[@tonytheflyer]

I was thinking the same thing, the controller did well with what was handed to him. Completely unacceptable to have one guy working the whole airport at one of the busiest airports in the world, even if it might be late at night.

[@SomeRandomGuy789]

@@clickster1883Aeromexico should have been less cajonesy

[@williamduncan7401]

@@tonytheflyer you are right. there should be a dedicated guy for clearance, so he can delivery a clearance once every 20min, dedicated ground for the 3 movements, and dedicated guy for "cleared to land" once every half hour too. There's literally like max 5 aircraft on the freq for this entire video. You're forgetting silences are trimmed.

[@MichaelCarrPilot]

8:12, I think the Captain is referencing earlier when the controller told everyone to relax because he was controlling all the frequencies.

[@meyague]

Still not justified to try to nag at the ATC.

[@EvanBear]

I mean technically he was right, he did say 31R not 13R and it was aeromexico starting it up again. Yes he's curt and snippy but you have to keep in mind that this is an extreme workload for a single person and he has to coordinate a shit ton of airplanes at the same time to make sure nobody gets into an accident. If you want friendly chatty controllers you gotta hire more of them.

[@rrr866]

yea he fuc**d that call up maybe he's dyslexic lol

[@justanotheraviator2357]

Keep in mind snippy and no bullshit, no filter is the new york mentality anyway

[@meyague]

​@@wagmiorngmieven less reason for Aeromexico to be that petty, and not clog radio frequency.

[@GBOAC]

@@wagmiorngmiwhen ATC has that tone it’s not their fault that you would assume it’s from audacity instead of from stress and possibly being burned out.

[@Rita-rs5qi]

@@wagmiorngmiI’m confused as to where everyone is getting his “massive attitude” from. He doesn’t seem to have an attitude, he was straight forward trying to get shit done. Maybe it’s cuz I’m from ny but he sounds normal To me.

[@wee017]

Unfair to call him a moody controller, he's dealing with incompetence all around (lots of incorrect readbacks) and he's the only one keeping the ship together.

[@spojce9]

nonsense. he's a complete ahole

[@C1ayd0n82]

Maybe he's the reason there are incorrect readbacks. His pass is too fast. He only slowed down for the clearance for one guy. There is no understanding for people speaking English as a second or third language. American controllers think the quicker they talk the better they are

[@sandeegrey5977]

Why do they have one guy running everything? That sounds pretty silly. No, stupid.

[@soccerguy2433]

the FAA is accepting applications. join, get training, pass, and help work ATC

[@gordo1163]

@@soccerguy2433 Nobody wants to work a miserable job like that. Theres a reason why people are flocking to become pilots and not ATC

[@jusancan8021]

@@gordo1163well, I do that job, I love it and dont want to do anything else, mate. Speak for yourself.

[@algernonftw42]

As stated, huge silences are trimmed. This isn't busy, and they don't force multiple people to be up working at 2am. The traffic levels are too low for that.

[@IncorrigibleBigotry]

@@algernonftw42 That's actually a really good point. At the end of the video I had completely forgotten reading that at the start, lol. You win.

[@Avionicx]

For handling all freqs at JFK solo, that controller did a fine job. Aeromexico needs to get off their high horse, they fucked up twice, admit it, move on, don't clog the freq.

[@cageordie]

Pay off being in control is not getting into fights. Correct the issue. Move on. We've heard how adults handle this many times.

[@i_mixr]

This ATC controller is being an absolute boss. Working all frequencies and maintaining a level of efficiency and control he is isn’t easy whatsoever.

[@dasmellyyooper]

Guy just sounds absolutely exhausted. He did tell EVERYBODY to relax, but he wasn't nasty until AM got on him.

[@erichildebrandt9490]

At 3:58, that pilot sounds just like the digital atis voice at most Bravo airports “radar vectors to robinsville”

[@chazflyz]

He didn't tell AMX401 to relax, but at 5:20 told "everybody" to relax....

[@pointofthejourney]

Someone picked the wrong day to quit amphetamines.

[@Trek001]

And sniff glue

[@SERBZILLA1]

@@Trek001 😂😂😂

[@heartbreakridge42]

"No, the WHITE phone!"

[@Vpmatt]

Listen, Betty, don't start up with your white zone shit again.

[@oldRighty1]

Johnny, what can you make of this?

[@-Wreckanize-]

Aeromexico needs to realize that this is the most polite jfk tower has been on vasavistion.

[@krflies9840]

He should try to meet that one at SFO

[@overhead18]

Removing the periods of silence will leave people that are not familiar thinking this controller is busier than he actually was. Airports all over the country have periods of time in which one controller handles all of these positions. The controller can prioritize traffic as needed, I don't think it is unsafe at all. Everyone has a bad day/night, fortunately when I have a bad moment at work there is no recording. Bigger picture, pilots and controllers can let the ego stuff go and consider extending these conversations for no reason other than to be "right" is not making anyone safer or reach their destination quicker.

[@fuhkerz]

I wish this comment was higher up. That's a very important detail to remember, there weren't a whole lot of radio calls going on at the time. With literal minutes in between the calls we hear, him getting so worked up makes even less sense.

[@braedan51]

Who's on 13R? No, What's on 31R, who's on 13L.

[@citibear57]

Good one! 😂 For those that don't get it, check out Abbott and Costello's famous 'Who's On First'

[@wotan10950]

Hugh’s on first!

[@michaelardai9703]

I don't know

[@royalbirb275]

nice, great reference

[@Penoatle]

@@michaelardai9703 No, that is 22L

[@Angel-VTek]

As non english native speaker, i can understand the communication breakdown they had with AM. Some eng natives may think the ATC guy is speaking slow, but for a spanish native this is still really difficult to understand and remember as your second language.

[@mathieub1200]

I think he did a good job considering he was on all freq.

[@andrewdstokes]

Respect to the lone controller working all of JFK at 2am local, having to put up with mis-readbacks from AeroMexico, a rookie on Delta Maint, a long routing and mis-readback from Copa. All handled professionally. The AeroMexico captain probably thought twice about chasing for his takeoff clearance after all that!

[@eddiejones.redvees]

It sounds like he rally loves his job 😅

[@samdapro]

This sounded like a real life VATSIM session 😂

[@aarondoty2210]

RELAXED! That controller sounded very chill and relax. He was on the "ball" the whole time, very smooth. He is just informing aeromexico of the procedure that would help the controller out to maintain a smooth operation and planning for the controller. Pilots sometimes forget, ATC is their to help you, you are the boss. ATC helps you in the coordination of your's and other's operation while moving everyone around as smooth as possible. Just like a great boss, you have to help your employees (ATC) for them to help you and get the job done.

[@w.ryanbutler8097]

That pilot must have been flying to/from New York for the first time because that controller was the most relaxed I've EVER heard. If he were in a mood he would have made the AeroMexico taxi off the runway and do unnecessary maneuvers on the apron.

[@PhilipGreenspun]

When in human history has it ever worked to tell someone to relax?

[@dixielandfarm]

Frankie Goes To Hollywood told us all to relax - and we did.

[@prachuryyabaruah6551]

VATSIM controller here, I’ve seen people with zero real world flying experience do a better job on frequency than the people this poor lad was handling. He’s incredibly composed with a good rate of speech for the shift he was working at. I have felt his frustration before and quite easy to vent out

[@dukeofrodtown1705]

People need to cut this controller some slack. It's the middle of the night, he's the only guy in the tower, and there are so many moving parts to his job. He had every right to tell everybody else to relax at 5:20 in, and if people had thought to slow down and breathe, this would've been averted

[@VASAviation]

So it's everyone else fault except his?

[@dukeofrodtown1705]

@@VASAviation IMO, yes. There should NOT be one controller alone on such a busy night, there should be people staffing every position. People were being impatient, not observing simple radio discipline. Good things come to all who wait, and even ATC controllers aren't robots

[@VASAviation]

Don't blame pilots then, blame the system!!

[@dukeofrodtown1705]

@@VASAviation Exactly. My thing is, the pilots just need to show patience and many weren't that night. The system needs an overhaul, but the pilots and ATC controllers need to remember that the other can't be everything, everywhere, all at once!

[@wnhtynhatc1306]

@@VASAviation Um, yes actually.

[@mairios521]

What in the God's mood? the captain of Aeromexico 401 was too sensible apparently😅 the ATC op handled everything like a true master!!

[@HermanTheGerman-r2d]

Cut him some slack, he's working all by himself in the middle of the night, and some guys make his job harder than in needs to be. After all, he's not just responsible for the radio, there's lots of paperwork that he also needs to keep in order.

[@whatilearnttoday5295]

> Cut him some slack How many hundreds of dead in slack? Sure, it's his criminally negligent employers who are to blame, but....

[@RobFeldkamp]

Legend has it Korean's flight plan has not been filed yet.

[@soccerguy2433]

02:10 local time... is anyone in a good mood at that time of night?

[@VASAviation]

Why not? Is night time some kind of forbidden forest? I LOVE flying late at night. Just face it the right way. You work in aviation. You're not just controlling the +18 entry of a casino.

[@BenJuan26]

WTF, the only thing I would fault the controller for is denying that he told everyone to relax. What else did he do wrong?? He's clearly handling a lot but he's not being rude or unprofessional. Even quipping about handing Aeromexico a number is justified; that conversation doesn't need to happen over the air. If Aeromexico wants to go into more and more detail about why the controller needs to relax, he can call the tower.

[@RyanL88827]

I thought I’d be upset with the controller, but that dude was getting it done! Nice job tower

[@jflow5601]

Aero Mexico was right. Controller lied. He did tell everyone to relax. He needs to get another job.

[@FlyTaylor]

Aye both the AMX Captain and the Controller was standing on business lol!! BUT I have to side with the Controller on this one to be honest, does he sound a little stern? Yea however as you heard pilots are messing up read backs, not flowing instructions not filling flight plans appropriately, and he’s working multiple frequencies so I get the controllers sternness but at the end of the day be prepared and pay attention to detail jussayin

[@VASAviation]

Do you think airline pilots fill their own flight plans?

[@Peter-sv4mk]

He doesn’t even sound stern, just tired. Because it’s 2am.

[@lauran3244]

Mechanics don’t get a lot of run taxi experience and they take it incredibly seriously. They do an excellent job and I know that they get very nervous talking on the radio as did all pilots the first few times.

[@wnhtynhatc1306]

Am I the crazy one or did this controller handle this almost perfectly considering his workload? The Aeromexico is 100% the one starting crap for no reason. The controller has every right to give the pilot advice for future reference without some whiny chirping back at him. He was short, but not the least bit rude or "moody" about it.

[@boudibla4011]

I work EMS and telling people to 'relax' and to 'chill out' is the best trick ever: Works every times! I think the 'Hello I'm the Captain' dude wanted the phone number deep inside. I know his mouth said 'no'. but his heart said 'yes please'...

[@Тольяттинец-н6ъ]

It sounded to me like the Aeromexico 401 crew were the instigators of the argument and they continued to escalate.

[@reed785M]

The ATC was on it, AMX was being a little brat. “I don’t like your mood” we don’t care pilot, get your shit together and go on about your flight.

[@Eddyspeeder]

In context, you do get a little taste of how the controller must feel like a kindergarten teacher explaining to pilots repeatedly what the procedures are up there while dealing with ground crew who just don’t know how to work the radio. He does have an N.Y. attitude and I wouldn’t want him asking me at a bar “Do you want to take this outside bro?” but knowing how many frequencies he works, the Airmexico captain seems pretty out of line to just call him out like that after he apparently was still upset about how poorly and confusingly ATC corrected the 31R readback. But the controller was right in telling off the Korean pilot for stepping on his Japanese colleague.

[@VASAviation]

How would Korean know about the Japanese colleague talking too if they ARE NOT in the same frequency?

[@wfja]

@@VASAviation IDK what the procedures are in the States but in Canada it’s common to couple ATC frequencies when working combined positions.

[@winitforal]

Controller definitely got snippy. But you hear how many idiots he has to deal with. More pilots got something wrong than correct. When is frustration justified?

[@RiverRaid82]

@@VASAviation Just coupled frequencies.. We use it in Austria all the time

[@VASAviation]

@@wfja not in the USA. I have both Ground and Tower audio clips and they are NOT coupled.

[@descarroll2039]

Bring Kennedy Steve back....the real professional....

[@davidgraham7932]

I love this channel but please don't put a teaser clip for the video at the start. I'm already watching. It's irritating. Thanks for the content!

[@VASAviation]

Hollywood does it, why not me?

[@francoissonnenous9441]

@@VASAviation Cuz' Hollywood sucks, you don't 🙂

[@VASAviation]

@@francoissonnenous9441 oh thanks!! :D

[@hectormercado6969]

Intense argument? Didn't hear absolutely anything wrong from the controller. Great job bro

[@VASAviation]

I did hear some

[@Peter-sv4mk]

Inaccurate clickbait on this channel is getting kind of tiring, Victor. ATC did a great job here, he communicated clearly and correctly every time, slowed down for foreign pilots, and caught several missed read backs. But Aeromexico took the controller politely correcting their minor mistakes bizarrely personally for some reason. Neither time was a big deal except that Aeromexico got pissy about it for no reason. People with that type of personality who refuse to accept that they are in the wrong even slightly are a threat to aviation safety. Both Aeromexico pilots don’t look good here.

[@in4merATP]

This guy.. What a champion. I know I wouldn't be so laid back working Kennedy by myself.

[@russell2952]

Pilots are actively antagonizing the guy and everyone blames the controller.

[@eNGinEm5]

Could it be that JFK is experiencing a severe shortage of air traffic controllers? Lately, the controllers all sound like they are very irritated and overwhelmed. This is going to lead to a serious accident at some point.

[@kr46428]

I think the Aeromexico pilots were the moody ones. They got their feelings hurt when they got their readback wrong. Sure, the controller was a bit exasperated at times, but the controller was still professional. You want a controller that is safe? Or a controller that is relaxed? This isn't a tequila bar, it's an airport.

[@SirIdot]

The controller isn't really in the wrong here, but he could just have left it at correcting the read back to 31R, none of that "I said, you said". He sets himself up for trouble when the other guy also has an ego and gets butthurt.

[@Michael_K_Woods]

I believe this same controller has been featured by VAS before for similar poor rapport. He should take notes from colleague Joanna on how to communicate in soft sounding but clear way.

[@markbranson723]

Before I watched the video I was thinking this was going to be another "JFK ATC being a bit of an arsehole" video, but I was wrong. He was working his arse off and wasn't impolite, and the Aeromexico was the arsehole here.

[@danpendr]

1:10 a controller should never argue about who said what, and just repeat the correct instruction to avoid further confusion... this is quite basic

[@sanantonio855]

All this shows is preflight/ground and tower should've been split 10 minutes ago. I can't believe a facility as huge as JFK may not have a spare ATC in cases like that

[@parkerburkey86]

This jfk guy is actually a boss

[@dbbd8040]

The biggest issue is that these controllers, who are operating at a major international airport, are using non-standard terms, local vernacular, and various conversational shortcuts. The pilots, many foreign-trained, are fully versatile with the ICAO language and terms, as is the requirement. But the NY controllers treat radio comms like a conversation (or sometimes, as an argument, as shown here). Under FAA rules, the controllers and pilots are obligated to use the ICAO terms and vernacular, but the NY controllers do not - leading to these issues. I have flown through NY center/approach many times, and I experienced it myself. It’s notable that the controllers who most frequently appear on these videos are exactly the ones who do not follow the rules on using ICAO terms and vernacular. It’s not a coincidence. Also, if they used standard terms, there would be much less of the colorful language that gets people riled up and annoyed.

[@agoogleuser2369]

Nothing beats Air China 981 at JFK.

[@agoogleuser2369]

@@Shadow__133 the one that was supposed to taxi on 04L after they landed?

[@agoogleuser2369]

@@Shadow__133 some of these foreign carriers should be ashamed of their English proficiency or lack thereof.

[@notmenotme614]

@@agoogleuser2369 Can you say technical aviation terms in Chinese?

[@agoogleuser2369]

LOL. Let's see. You're offended because you're Chinese...? Cute you took the time to get personal. Now that you've asked, I can speak 4 languages fluently. Chinese is NOT one of them. I wonder why... Oh, of course, technical aviation terms and flight training are standardized for the English language, in case you didn't know. In many countries, pilots that need to fly abroad, on international routes, are supposed to be able to understand plain English, and have at minimum ICAO Level 4 of English proficiency or better (a standardized test for pilots) in order to even be allowed to fly international routes. Yet, everything I just said, just now, has nothing to do with the fact that I wasn't picking on, or making fun of Chinese pilots exclusively. Lots of foreign carriers, not only Chinese pilots, seem to struggle overall, with the English language, when coming to America. Sometimes I have a very hard time understanding what they're saying to ATC, when I'm on the same frequency. Their inability to communicate poses a lot of danger to everyone around them, particularly on the ground, at major US airports, such as JFK, IAD, BOS, MIA, CLT, ORD, IAH, SFO, LAX, SEA, just to name a few. Pilots inability to speak and understand plain English frustrates ATC and every other pilot on frequency. Fact of the matter is: Me, referencing the terrible interaction between Air China 981 and the ground controller at JFK, was merely a comparison. The ground controller was very tense and frustrated because the crew could not understand plain English. The controllers attitude and demeanor was not very professional, regardless. No need to get offended, dear stranger on the internet. Have a great day! 😘

[@AxmihaMeuSaco]

His tone... he sounds like a very tired man, but still doing his job well. He reminds me of a jazz bassist friend who could play amazing walking bass and talk to his friend at the same time without missing a bar. He was that good, like this guy. Anyone knows who he is? He should get a medal.

[@NLCovers]

You know how rare it is to hear pilots speaking FASTER than ATC? 😂😂😂

[@pseudocoder78]

When it's graveyard and every single pilot speaks English as a second language... I'd say it's probably every night.

[@darin982]

Delta Maintenance stole the show honestly. 🍿 ATC guy great job!

[@dcramer16]

For once I’m on the controllers side. Lotta idiots on that night, had to be frustrating and he’s already overworked.

[@JahongirHaitov]

And AMX did indeed read the runway number wrong, lol

[@winitforal]

This is standard now at every major airport. Pilots have gotten god awful. Not all. There are exceptions. But in large, they have declined significantly in the last few years

[@dcramer16]

@@winitforal so have controllers. It’s bad all across the board. I won’t fly airlines anymore. Too dangerous. Fortunately I can fly myself.

[@flutetubamorg]

He wasn't exactly Betty Sunshine, but I didn't really hear anything worth starting an argument over. I think Senor Captain Pilot just wanted to show he was a big shot to the rest of his cockpit.

[@ehnathanael]

Capt of AMX might be correct, but IMO the 'bad mood' comment to ATC was unnecessary.

[@GodzilarOG7337]

It annoys me that JFK controllers do not use ICAO standard phraseology, using local jargon when the rest of the world has adapted. Also, if this guy is getting overwhelmed then he needs to have another colleague join him. Personally he sounded too busy just to be working by himself.

[@kathrynslye471]

Don’t fly into any airport on Lon-guy-lin if you need to be coddled and treated like a cockpit princess . The controllers are brutally efficient and salty. If you get in and out without a major reprimand or a deep NYC sigh followed by “I tell you what…” then you did well. The controller was too busy working tower, ground and clearance delivery at JFK simultaneously to puff up AMs already overinflated ego.

[@marcelszabo9585]

Lol ain't that the truth. I expect to get absolutely roasted here and KBOS if I mess up the RT. Just gotta laugh.

[@AbdulMannan-yq7xy]

man sometimes it can be other stresses which makes your mood bad at work, 401 pointed out and also de-escalated it by not taking the number, we all a community, we all stand by our brothers and sisters in aviation industry

[@blackwolf1475]

The controller was obviously tired and overwhelmed. But speaking to pilots using remarks like "relax", "almost there", "as usual, you are" or "I already told you four times" was not very clever either. I'm not saying the AM captain was clever speaking the way he did but he has every right to defend himself against condescending behavior.

[@oelschlegel]

I doubt he would say "as usual" if it was not, in fact, usual.

[@blackwolf1475]

@@oelschlegel just because it’s true doesn’t mean it always has to be said. Same applies to the AM pilot. It’s called having tact.

[@stevenaltaccount9476]

Despite the controller being very skilled and managing all of this, you can tell he's on edge a bit because he has to be. That's what happens when you have no one backing you up and you're responsible for literally everything. Just feels like an accident waiting to happen. FAA going with the classic, if it ain't broke don't fix it, only when it does eventually break it could be an absolute catastrophe.

[@devilchild12323]

And these ppl are flying planes!??? God help us all.

[@gemeen_aapje]

You've never flown a plane have you? 😆

[@imzanky6321]

Lots of ego and emotions. That's 2024 for you.

[@devilchild12323]

@@gemeen_aapje ive had control aircraft and never had pilots like this

[@prabs8569]

Dunno if he's actually being moody or is portrayed as one. Imo controller did what he had to do 🤷‍♂️ pilots not able to maintain basic radio decorum and talking over each other. Amx not able to fully communicate with ground needing extra 2 min. And why the hell there's only 1 person in tower.

[@Azchk]

-1:31-- The argument could have ended right then and there....- edit: After hearing that the controller learned from this encounter, I redact my comment. It is very clear he was under a lot of stress. Hats off.

[@notmenotme614]

That’s no excuse. He shouldn’t be stressed in such a dangerous environment.

[@ModernClassic]

I'm a New Yorker and am used to dealing with JFK controllers at this point. Saying "everybody relax" is honestly nothing. Dude's one guy handling all frequencies at one of the busiest airports in the world - I don't care what time it is. And a lot of the stuff he was dealing with was honestly not very professional - people need to learn how things work and study the charts before flying out of or driving around a place like JFK. I actually thought he was pretty patient under the circumstances. AM pilots were a little bit out of line calling him out.

[@jerryweirdspeed]

This guy is super professional. The only point of difference is with Aeromexico as they are unaware of the 5 min traffic order. And THEY extend the conversation and block the air for a lengthy but pointless back and forth about relaxation when it's a simple thing to acknowledge that they were unaware of JFK proceedings. They have every right to take more distancing. They got it. One single "Okay" on their behalf could have done the job. Instead they are creating an issue where there is none. Delta Maintenance had trouble reading instructions. They were taking attention away from the controller. What is Aeromex doing with the time of the controller? They're just sitting around!