Furious row breaks out between Tory Minister and MP during Trans debate

[@lc4geoff]

So, just to be clear, it's unparliamentary to call someone a liar, but not unparliamentary to tell lies? The mind boggles!

[@the_one1001]

Exactly, infact if you’re a liar you get the top job

[@dgamerssvideoreaction7666]

They all know the game but aren't allowed to speak it out loud. The charade must go on for the plebs!

[@finleyarmitage3124]

She didn’t lie though, Kemi Badenoch literally said it was ‘almost an epidemic’ in this clip which is presumably what she was referring to.

[@fuckamericanidiot]

Calling bad people bad is worse than being bad. Welcome to the third millennium.

[@jmmypaddy]

The reason for this is that you trust politicians to be truthful in their actions, because calling each other liars and normalise said sentiment can try to discredit important truths. In this clip Kemi Badenoch used epidemic which is used in links with disease, which is what the MP in the committee pointed out. Instead of asking where they said disease or language that infers this, Kemi Badenoch immediately lashes out says the other MP is a liar. As you can see, throwing out lying without justification and process aims to confuse.

[@dominionsilas2227]

Unparliamentary my foot, a liar is a liar.

[@holdtightadele8017]

The fact it is unparliamentary to call someone out for LYING is a huge problem that need’s rectification.

[@rogernichols1124]

This ban on calling someone a liar in Parliament is As long as that the accusation can be backed up by hard evidence, it's perfectly acceptable to call someone a liar.When the present government is called out again and again for lying, the ban is doubly ironic. The same tyranny of censorship is applicable to those who have the courage to identify bad practice, dodgy dealings and mismanagement.

[@jimjarvis2309]

@@rogernichols1124 No, you're wrong but I love the certainty with which you pretend to know what you are talking about The speaker will always insist that an MP either withdraw the word or leave the chamber.

[@ford289cid7]

Kate didn't lie. So Badenoch was wrong to call her a liar. Badenoch is worse than that, though, since she is calling trans an "epidemic" which enables trans-bashers to feel more justified when they beat a trans person to near death on the street.

[@LouiseBrooksBob]

In this clip Badenoch uses the word "epidemic" which usually means the spread of a disease, but then Badenoch tries to make it all about whether she had used the word "disease."

[@jimjarvis2309]

@@LouiseBrooksBob What's the difference between saying 'epidemic' and 'disease'?

[@Right_Direction_]

Insane that someone can lie, but the person who calls them out for lying is the one in the wrong, but not the person who's lying? What the hell.

[@blackaua]

The unbearable smugness that these people exude is astonishing.

[@megaxenu753]

Amen to that. The chair smirking away.

[@BlyatimirPootin]

Especially the idiot Badenhoch.

[@deebarnard5439]

Astonishing, no. Just par for course of the rable rousing tactics of the Conservative Party. Othering is their battle cry to incite the bigots.

[@stephencollins9062]

​@@megaxenu753it's a psychogenic social contagion A mind virus. That's a fact and all the research shows this to be true

[@CockWomble1000]

Who is she?

[@walaka4]

“You just called me a liar… I’m not here to answer your questions”

[@ashman167]

Look at the level of gaslighting going on.

[@fredjenner]

*guilty silence* "I'm not here to answer YOUR questions."

[@L3Harris]

Very questionable intervention from the committee chair at the end, not taking sides is supposed to be a key point of her role right?

[@shallwego4]

She was so biased, this is why some ethinic minorities feel racial discrimination.

[@Boards-dont-hit-back]

Watching this make my heart sink. We have truely lost our way

[@Paul_C]

What do you expect from England? The truth? 😂😂😂😂😂

[@mjones4083]

I know what you mean but at least there are MPs like Kemi still ready to fight this madness . Not many I grant you but there are still some . Let's hope Kemi's no nonsense truths emboldens others to speak out too.

[@jonathanmoore5619]

​@@Paul_C What a comment.

[@gene8675]

black women as a whole have contributed less to the modern world, yet somehow get important positions. Clown world enjoy the kosher circus.

[@binghamguevara6814]

Is this a pro or anti LGBT comment?

[@fodsaks]

Don't let her off the hook, Kemi.

[@dianamincher6479]

Badenoch mentioned an epidemic to describe the numbers of kids with dysphoria? An epidemic is a disease but Badenoch always tends to behave like a wild animal if she doesn't get her own way! This Badenoch catter waulling is most unbecoming and has no place in a civilized society?

[@jona826]

I have no time for anyone who makes an accusation and then fails to provide the evidence to back it up. Despicable.

[@amalekedomite]

I have no time for foreigners or women in politics.

[@rogernichols1124]

Exactly. My view too.

[@rogernichols1124]

Exactly. My view too.

[@davidbebbington5101]

The definition of epidemic is the wide spread occurance of an infectious disease. Literally said in the video 20 ish seconds before hand.

[@groundcontrol436385]

@@davidbebbington5101 It also means "overly prevalent" in regard to anything, not just disease. Infectious laughter has no link to any disease. Some people need to update their knowledge of word usage.

[@ThomasDoubting5]

If someone is lying then they are a liar and for parliament to suggest that is unparliamentary says everything we need to understand about our politicians and politics .

[@paullewis3419]

Who was lying and how?

[@memyselfandi2506]

Firstly the two are not equivalent. One was a personal character assassination. Kemi was using the word “explosion” to describe STATISTICS not a person. The alphabet people alway engage in these personal attack. They are low level tactics And to answer your question. The referrals for young girls to the Tavistock went up by 5337% in 10 years. Yes I’d class this as and explosion. Also as the number of people going down that path has gone up by 5337% it is normal for have hate crime go up by 5337% (which I doubt it has) FULL context matters but these activists never tell the full truth

[@verystripeyzebra]

@@memyselfandi2506 she used the word epidemic. Which is likening the issue to a disease. Noone accused her of using the word disease. So who's lying? Only kemi .

[@eleveneleven572]

A false accusation was made and yet when the person accused calls the accuser a liar for doing that it's somehow "unparliamentary". I smell bias.

[@ThomasDoubting5]

I'm not talking about the about the content, I couldn't careless if I tried, what I'm talking about is how the use of language is controlled by these filthy gentrified rancid shitehawk fakiods.

[@LemonSlice-v3e]

We've descended into a US style of committees based on nonsense and feelings and rules protecting those sitting at the front of the room.

[@martindenham2207]

I have some experience of political/committee environments and what I found is there are predominately two types of people in the room, those who are attempting to solve the problem being discussed & those who weaponise the problem to win the argument. It's the latter that cause the most problems in my experience.

[@samanthapatrick4345]

The question is who's doing what?

[@martindenham2207]

@@samanthapatrick4345 Obviously it depends on the person. I’m only ever interested in solving the problem. Have zero interest in playing games.

[@samanthapatrick4345]

@@martindenham2207 I was curious about who you think is trying to solve the problem and who is trying to weaponise the problem

[@martindenham2207]

@@samanthapatrick4345 It all depends on the situation, or who's involved etc. I've pretty much worked out that as a core motivator for behaviour, maturity usually leads to solving the problem for all concerned & immaturity usually leads to weaponising the problem for personal gain.

[@jimjarvis2309]

My takeaway was how spiteful the chairman, Caroline Noakes, was at the very end.

[@ayeright320]

Noakes for the Blokes loves transvestites- hates actual women. She's very much in the wrong job

[@bereal6590]

No she wasnt. You seem woefully unaware of the language used by this government to demonise groups with has seen an increase in hate crimes against those groups

[@outoforbit00]

Yip I noticed that

[@connor5669]

Because Kemi is a hypocrite. She frequently uses hyperbolic language

[@outoforbit00]

@@connor5669 how is she a hypocrite?

[@chigeryelam4061]

Astonishing that the Chair seemed to leap to the defence of someone making untrue statements and attacks the minister for rightly calling it out. I would have more respect for this committee and the Chair if they had addressed the substance of the offence of presenting false evidence rather than the language used to counter.

[@RedRemRob]

Not an untrue statement at all, I just wish the committee member stood by her argument more effectively

[@ayeright320]

Noakes for the Blokes is in the wrong job- she's so stupid she's totally fallen for this gender nonsense and fawns over transvestites

[@poprey300]

@@RedRemRobcome on then shows where the minister used the word disease.

[@RedRemRob]

@@poprey300 She referenced an epidemic, an epidemic refers to the spread of disease, the questioner said that Kemi ‘likened it to the spread of disease’. Disease is implied by epidemic. In whatever context the term is used, it likens the described phenomena to the primary definition of epidemic: the spread of disease.

[@jennd9091]

Where did Kemi mention 'disease' then? @@RedRemRob

[@tudes2421]

Kemi is brilliant.

[@drhfuhruhurr4253]

So calling someone out on a lie is 'unparliamentary language'. Ridiculous.

[@duggeryclips]

And the chair ultimately picking on Kimi, completely irrelevant to the matter that she raised. Deflecting and, arguably, corrupt.

[@verystripeyzebra]

An epidemic is the spread of a disease. Which is what she said. So she did liken it to the spread of a disease. Noone said she used the word disease. Only bullshitting kemi badenoch is too thick to understand that.

[@kayzlazerbeam007]

In the end Badenoch was the one who was lying. She did state "We are seeing I would say almost an epidemic of young gay children being told that they are trans and being put on a medical pathway for irreversible decisions and regretting what they have done." This supports what Osborne was stated: “inflammatory language that likens children and young people coming out as trans to a disease." Its not shown in this clip, since it wasn't made at this committee hearing, Kate Osborne, the mp questioning Babenoch was making reference to such a statement.

[@goodlookinouthomie1757]

If I play devil's advocate, using the word "liar" was unparliamentary, despite it being an accurate description. We ought to maintain standards.

[@goodlookinouthomie1757]

@kayzlazerbeam007 Ah, so she never used the word "disease" then, and the MP was making it up. thanks for clarifying.

[@joehenry8896]

So it's unparlimentary to tell the truth , they just admitted it, wow .

[@TheJammerman]

If it’s unparliamentary to call someone a liar then surely it is unparliamentary to lie

[@SkiZMDJ]

Indeed

[@mattiles503]

This whole thing is a joke. Im offended by everyone involved. Grow up and sort out the UK, or get another job and clear off. You're wasting our time.

[@ThomasDoubting5]

Here here .

[@gaycha6589]

And taxpayers money. A disgrace of self indulgence

[@fizzgigmalmy2567]

Unfortunately they are not going anywhere....the new English are here and growing by the day simply coz the real English have allowed it....really hurts but it's the truth...taken over without so much as a fight!!!

[@ascgazz]

@@fizzgigmalmy2567 sounds like you’re on the good drugs eh? 🤣

[@garypautard1069]

This issue should not have even got to this stage. Lefty political activists must be laughing their socks off.

[@dave.john.1763]

All these committees should be banned from using social media for evidence-based questions

[@heatrayzvideo3007]

Fair play

[@julianshepherd2038]

It used to be the golf club view

[@Ominousheat]

Don't you mean politicians shouldn't base their evidence on social-media comments?

[@k1a2n3e41]

@@Ominousheatyou’ve just reworded the op’s comment

[@Ominousheat]

@@k1a2n3e41I was trying to reiterate it's meaning for clarity, not plagiarize.

[@miwoo6zz969]

Well said kemi !😊

[@moif_velocita]

Google Badenoch and epidemic. Badenoch is the liar

[@plug4uk696]

I like her for calling out someone who is clearly LYING to her face! Good on her 👍👍

[@fionaburrows6659]

Kemi was clearly upset and rattled. Doesn’t like when someone starts calling her out on her language and lies and so she resorted to aggressive name calling. It’s playground tactics to shut down debate and I think she’s embarrassing herself here.

[@ravencole8727]

@@fionaburrows6659 Kate Osborne disingenuously misrepresented Kemi's original statement and got called out.

[@patrickjoseph-q4k]

Lie Legal Def. This definition says that what makes a lie a lie is that the liar intends to deceive (or at least to mislead) the person they are lying to. The grey haired MP - there is no evidence she knowingly deceives/mislead - no intent

[@ravencole8727]

@@patrickjoseph-q4k Kate Osborne re-worded Kemi's original statement in order to make it fit her disingenuous accusation. That was intentional.

[@plug4uk696]

@@patrickjoseph-q4k Thank you for that, much appreciated ;-)

[@RomanAugustus]

I do believe Kemi has the potential to lead The Conservative Party!

[@tecumseh4095]

In Nigeria?

[@sevgisirin1843]

You must be so desperate 😅

[@dianamincher6479]

The dirtier Badenoch plays the more acceptable she becomes to the loser democratically dumped obsolete Conservative party!

[@hugegains-makegreatsales5736]

you called it mate! you absouletly did!

[@hugegains-makegreatsales5736]

@@sevgisirin1843 what now? lol

[@NMiller80666]

That woman tried to gaslight Kemi, then played vicim 'you called me a liar'.

[@moif_velocita]

Google Badenoch and epidemic. Badenoch is the liar

[@ravencole8727]

@@moif_velocita Google Kate Osborne and epidemic. She has said there's an "epidemic of child poverty". If we were to use her own disingenuous way of interpreting the metaphorical use of this word then Kate is likening children who live below the poverty line to a disease.

[@Justthegoodstuff-gh2xx]

The lady did not technically lie. The definition of "epidemic" is the spread of a disease What she is doing is more subtle than lying. Because even though it wasn't a lie it was a twist that *purposefully* leaves the audience with a mistruth. Her re-wording was purposeful - to leave us thinking that Kemi thinks of these *children and young people AS a disease.* It leaves you thinking Kemi has dehumanised them when she hasn't. This is purposeful manipulation and defamation that she knows she can't be held accountable for. Kemi actually said *"almost an epidemic"* to refer to a massive 1600% increase in gender referrals (around 5000% in the young female demographic!!!) Even if you ultimately disagree with Kemi, it is more than understandable for someone to make a connection to something that is spreading. People do also use the word "epidemic" in a more flexible way to describe social contagion and trends. Last point. Countless thousands of trans identifying people agree there is a social contagion element. Detransers describe it in detail. And everyone else sensible can see it too. The woman technically didn't lie, but she is however purposefully spreading false beliefs!

[@richardgorton5630]

Kemi was very restrained there, that awful woman was a liar, was called out and for some bizarre reason the committee defended her. She should have been thrown out there and then. Disgusting, no wonder the public have little to no faith in these people.

[@kevinsmarts9953]

Except the Telegraph have reported on her call the increasing number of trans-kids being an epidemic. This is what was being referred to and unless the Telegraph (and some other press) are lying the "awful woman" is 100% correct.

[@davidbebbington5101]

Epidemic means the wide spread occurance of an infectious disease. Literally doubled down on in the video.😊

[@Godssboy]

It can also mean "a sudden, widespread occurrence of a particular undesirable phenomenon" . "an epidemic of violent crime

[@davidbebbington5101]

@@Godssboy I agree, but would argue this is to invoke crime to be like a spreading disease. However I am not the minister and can not state this is what she meant, however it is fully reasonable to see how someone could make that inference to the effect of it being a disease by what was said. I think a more statesman response would have been to clarify what was meant rather than calling someone a lier. The MP on the committee should have also clarified it was the images invoked by the word epidemic leading here to this line.

[@corn985]

You're defending kemi, who has told more than enough porkies to make many pies in her soon to be short lived political career😂

[@jameswatters9592]

Its a sad reflection when social media is used for evidence its only a moron that attempts to and its good on Kemi for calling out that in the most firm manner possible and how typical of a mud slinger to reply ' I'm not here to answer your question ' the last recourse of the liar

[@ajtaffy]

Well done, Kemi!!!

[@anthonyclegg1511]

🤣🤣😂😂🐱🐦.

[@ralalbatross]

Ok lad explain why you care about this at all

[@Withwhatmytoes]

@@ralalbatross I care because I don’t want to see mental illness dressed up as something to be proud of or an identity. Call yourself whatever you want just don’t expect me or anyone else to either take you seriously or respect you and if you start trying to access single sex spaces don’t be surprised people stand up and resoundingly say NO. Degenerate behaviour

[@clair233]

Kemi is standing her ground and I respect that.

[@ralalbatross]

Well, she's either an idiot who can't argue her point in any meaningful way (because anyone who knows anything about this subject understands how service use for mental health disorders grows with acceptance of said condition) or is deliberately lying so idiots can agree and vote with her. So which is it?

[@dougaltolan3017]

Didn't work out to well for Canute.

[@jackpearson5285]

@@dougaltolan3017 I don't think you understand the story of Canute and I suggest you do some research to understand it better.

[@connor5669]

She threw a temper tantrum after being called out for calling trans people an epidemic.

[@MrJonboy]

@@connor5669 no, she hit back after she was misquoted as saying a "disease". This is purposely done to make her look bad, good on her for standing up to the LIE.

[@harveyking5038]

and these people get paid for this pointless discussion? easy job

[@IanDocherty335]

Someone lies and gets all huffy when outed as a liar. Why am I not surprised.

[@RedRemRob]

I know, Kemi is so annoying when she does that!

[@rainbowevil]

What was the lie, Ian? It’s true that she used words likening being trans to a disease, or have you not heard of the word “epidemic” before??

[@ravencole8727]

@@rainbowevil What Kemi said was there's an "epidemic of young gay children being told that they are trans". She's saying adults who tell children they are born in the wrong body are taking part in a social trend, not that these adults are diseased.

[@jackpearson5285]

@@rainbowevil Do you accept that the word 'epidemic' can be, and frequently is, used to refer to non-medical spreads. Such as the terms 'crime epidemic', 'bankruptcy epidemic', etc, which are very common phrases and have been for decades? This is an easy yes. In fact the word epidemic comes from classical Greek and simply refers to something being domestic (like the civil war in the Iliad - 'polemos epidemios'). The committee member deliberately chooses to interpret Kemi's word as being related to disease, despite there being no evidence of that being Kemi's intention when using the word. What would you call such a deliberate manipulation of language, if not a lie?

[@connor5669]

​@@jackpearson5285Do you realize that "epidemic" is only ever used about negative things... because of the association with disease.

[@johndoe-qg7jp]

Good . Call out a lie when you see it! Good on you Kemi!👏🏾💝💝

[@yesnomaybeso3220]

Not being from England, I don't even know who the chairwoman is but it is obvious how she came in to save the other woman from being called out on her lies.

[@ayeright320]

Shes Caroline Noakes nicknamed Noakes for the Blokes because she's more interested in transvestites than real women

[@johnsimms8285]

Her name is Caroline Nokes. She's a Conservative MP, like Kemi Badenoch.

[@yesnomaybeso3220]

@@johnsimms8285 Are they enemies ?

[@johnsimms8285]

@@yesnomaybeso3220 Kemi Badenoch and Caroline Nokes are both Conservative Party Members (Equivalent of the Republican Party) who are in Govt. at the moment. Kate Osborne is a Labour Party Member (Equivalent of the Democrat Party) who are in opposition at the moment. So not enemies, but certainly politically opposed.

[@yesnomaybeso3220]

@@johnsimms8285 tks for that info.

[@scamwitness6594]

You get her lady , respect! Make that LIAR explain herself.

[@Philip-x3d]

LOVE IT. Well done Kemi. This is how to deal with the woke.......speak clear and plain to them, let them spite out some lie of a reply, ignore it, move on and get the job done that you were appointed to do. Just 500 more MP'S like Kemi, please, from ANY party.

[@alanmansell4297]

Kemi, well known for making up as she goes along.

[@mrsose1872]

The UK was generally doing very well with issues revolving around gay and trans people before it became the big topic.

[@adrianjacobs5444]

Theres more respect for parliamentary language and rules than there is in Parliament.

[@Aloddff]

She called trans people an epidemic then said it was a lie to say she compared people to a disease, whilst claiming that trans hate was justified because of trans people using female spaces

[@CockWomble1000]

Caroline is so cool 😊

[@ravencole8727]

@@Aloddff She said there's an "epidemic of young gay children being told that they are trans". She's saying irresponsible adults are taking part in a social trend of telling children they are born in the wrong body.

[@deathdeathington]

They have to act honourably and they have to treat other members as honourable members. Calling someone a liar is calling their honour into question. If everyone's honour is questioned then parliamentary debate devolves into petty fights and squabbles. They couldn't get anything done. So, when you hear an MP calling his opposition "My right honourable colleague" it is a polite, tactful way of saying "I know you've been up to tricks." without actually saying it.

[@CockWomble1000]

@@ravencole8727 imagine that. Feeling you are in the wrong body?

[@conconmc]

There are way larger problems that need focusing on at the moment, housing, cost of living, population growth and immigration.

[@verystripeyzebra]

Yes. So why they wasting so much energy on Rwanda, that will see what, 100 a year being sent to Rwanda. A rounding error number in the big scheme of things.

[@elainepirie4097]

The issue of the erasure of women and women's rights are of huge importance

[@chrisbfreelance]

Human civilisation didn't reach this stage by only focusing on one singular issue at a time.

[@livelife5947]

Only a man would say matters of women’s rights & child protection aren’t important. You’ll literally have no civilisation or society without such.

[@mwfmtnman]

​@chrisbfreelance it also didn't reach this stage worrying about what screeching females want. Tbh

[@Myth_10]

Its all theater for us plebs.

[@Land-of-reason]

Well said Kemi.

[@twistedsister2568]

Unless she could have backed that up she should have been made to withdraw the comment.

[@greentombdive]

Unfortunately, the memory of it cannot be ‘withdrawn’ ..

[@tonyhoffman3309]

Which "she" are you referring to?

[@Justthegoodstuff-gh2xx]

​@@greentombdive The lady did not technically lie. The definition of "epidemic" is the spread of a disease What she is doing is more subtle than lying. Because even though it wasn't a lie it was a twist that *purposefully* leaves the audience with a mistruth. Her re-wording was purposeful - to leave us thinking that Kemi thinks of these *children and young people AS a disease.* It leaves you thinking Kemi has dehumanised them when she hasn't. This is purposeful manipulation and defamation that she knows she can't be held accountable for. Kemi actually said *"almost an epidemic"* to refer to a massive 1600% increase in gender referrals (around 5000% in the young female demographic!!!) Even if you ultimately disagree with Kemi, it is more than understandable for someone to make a connection to something that is spreading. People do also use the word "epidemic" in a more flexible way to describe social contagion and trends. Last point. Countless thousands of trans identifying people agree there is a social contagion element. Detransers describe it in detail. And everyone else sensible can see it too. The woman technically didn't lie, but she is however purposefully spreading false beliefs!

[@ZachariahMoore-vo1wi]

Their empire is slowly but surely fall'n, enjoy it while yall can🤣👏🏿

[@corn985]

Oh, the irony. A MP calling out someone for lying.

[@lee9650]

If the tories make Kemi PM then and only then I will consider voting tory. The chair started nitpicking at Kemis choice of words after Kemi called out the Committee members fictional quote and thus putting the reputability of the panel into question, so the Chair decided to proceed indignantly, became petulant and defensive and had to quickly scramble for something to nitpick at. What a waist of public money!

[@philipkingston6960]

Why isn't Badenoch PM?! Maybe the Conservatives would then have a half decent chance of winning the election.

[@preachermike]

I find it ironic that these people want to talk about facts when they are perpetuating a delusion.

[@allseeingry2487]

These people?

[@preachermike]

@@allseeingry2487 The nonsense people pushing this delusion that gender is not based on biology. There are only two sexes and two genders and you cannot change from one to the other.

[@Justthegoodstuff-gh2xx]

​@allseeingry2487 Trans activists. The most disengenuous group with more gaslighting/manipulative tactics than I have ever seen from any other movement

[@pauls3075]

I cant believe both an MP and a Government Minister would lie ... oh wait a minute.

[@johnsimms8285]

It's a skill that is essential in politics

[@connor5669]

She literally said it was an epidemic

[@ravencole8727]

@@connor5669 In her original statement Kemi said there's an "epidemic of young gay children being told that they are trans". She's saying irresponsible adults are taking part in a social trend of telling children they were born in the wrong body.

[@connor5669]

@@ravencole8727 Yea that's really really imflammatory language.

[@damianbylightning6823]

@@connor5669 Those who work in education are seeing an epidemic of trans lunacy. There are some in education who simply refuse to see it.

[@Paul-rm9ev]

Lies, liar, hmm. Let's weave the subject of lying back into the discussion. Is it a truth when someone says they are of the opposite sex when actually they are expressing a preferred gender, one that generally pertains to the opposite sex?

[@brettpritchard265]

As if we can lie on the spot and nothing happens but then a moment later we're reprimanded for calling someone out for lying. That's absolutely and stupidly ridiculous.

[@philipcochran1972]

You can't call a liar a liar. So, we don't want the truth. No wander we've got problems.

[@alroberts5026]

One of those women is a Karen and it's not the one under 40

[@BobK5]

Shame she couldn’t have outed Johnson and Cummings as liars

[@denisebrown4735]

Yes. Facts seem to be totally irrelevant when it comes to the best interests of the country over tory party political

[@BobK5]

@@denisebrown4735 I’d include Lib Dem’s, Labour and SNP to name but a few who have equally lacking ethical values.

[@jimcourt9164]

Leftist Simp alert

[@davidcolin6519]

@@BobK5 Whataboutism of the first water. There is absolutely zero relationship between the proven, and constant lies of this government and the other parties that you mention. In fact, I can't think of ANY government over the past 150 years that came even close to the level of lies and corruption of this lot. And suppressing the vote only ensures that they have a better chance of getting back in. BTW, I've lived through significantly more governments than most.

[@Thereallenin76]

Well she was lying about them being liars so that’ll explain why she couldn’t. They said she used language that likened trans kids coming out to the spread of disease, she used the word epidemic, that is literally a word to describe a spreading disease 🤦🏽‍♂️ Listen to what the white woman ACTUALLY says, at no point does she say “you used the word disease” so her outrage was completely performative and you all got duped

[@davidthomas3826]

Don't call a liar a liar ~ it's most unParliamentary

[@dominikmuller5021]

She did say that she referred to it as an epidemic which is likening it to the spread of the disease. What's she whining about?

[@Canthatcrazy]

I LOVE HER. ❤️ She's so right to call her out on her B.S

[@moif_velocita]

Google Badenoch and epidemic. Badenoch is the liar

[@brianw289]

@@moif_velocita She said epidemic; she didn't say disease. Different words with different meanings. That the left seemingly have no concept of nuance is not Kemi's fault.

[@moif_velocita]

@@brianw289 And now you want to pretend that she didn't means what she meant when we all know what she meant becauyse she's said it more than once and she's said a lot worse. Badenoch is a total disgrace. Her job is to ensure equaility for every one, not just those whom she approves of.

[@brianw289]

@@moif_velocita Badenoch is a voice of sanity at a time of mass hysteria. Men are not, and cannot become, women.

[@EtcEtcAndEtc]

Brian, would you say that the word Epidemic can have positive connotations? Is there not an implied disapproval of the concept of transgenderism in the use of the word? Is it the job of government to describe the increasing visibility of a vulnerable group as an epidemic? The implication is that transgenderism is something that can flourish if not kept under control Very unclear what you think the nuance at play here is, if not what I've just described. @@brianw289

[@camoTiaras]

You can see the Narcissism oozing out.

[@gene8675]

Modem women simple as....

[@ralalbatross]

@@gene8675 Oh trust me the simplest person in any room you're in is you, and that includes a hall of mirrors.

[@davidbland5053]

Kemi Badenoch one of the most unequal equal rights ministers going, especially when it comes down to transgender people.

[@trevorhussey2027]

The Minister was absolutely right to refute the allegation, robustly.

[@ImperienCypher]

Progressivism poisons everything.

[@brettpritchard265]

YES finally someone is making this very valid point in a meaningful forum.

[@misfit2022]

If you are caught out in a lie you apologise you don’t say “I’m not here to answer your questions”

[@jackjude]

Badendoch clearly did use the language she was accused of. Bizarre comment .

[@misfit2022]

@Jack Did you not listen to what she said?

[@jackpearson5285]

@@jackjude Do you accept that the word 'epidemic' can be, and frequently is, used to refer to non-medical spreads. Such as the terms 'crime epidemic', 'bankruptcy epidemic', etc, which are very common phrases and have been for decades? This is an easy yes. In fact the word epidemic comes from classical Greek and simply refers to something being domestic (like the civil war in the Iliad - 'polemos epidemios'). The committee member deliberately chooses to interpret Kemi's word as being related to disease, despite there being no evidence of that being Kemi's intention when using the word. What would you call such a deliberate manipulation of language, if not a lie?

[@jackjude]

@@jackpearson5285 of course I accept it- you make an astute point - "epidemic" has other negative connotations.😁 Badenoch invited some sort of a parallel, using "epidemic," at _worst_ a wholly negative medical term concerning an outbreak of disease... *or* at _best_ a wholly negative term for an uncontrolled outbreak of something problematic, undesirable, a social ill (like your example _crime)_ ...something rife like a disease but not. That rhetoric conjures up the charged language of "invasions" of immigrants, (not litterally with tanks and missiles! like in an _alternative_ sense... like weeds or rodents maybe?) rather than your classical Greek tbh. 👍

[@jackjude]

@@misfit2022 yes I did, I have ears 👍

[@PentaRaus]

Treating woman as equals has brought us here.

[@otuefiom5730]

Welcome to the UK. Well done Kemi. You are a star.

[@markreilly52]

I am so sad that a government presiding over 13 years of failure should seek to distract from this by targeting vulnerable minorities. Some people speak of Cemi as a future prime minister. God help us!

[@SM-lb2do]

For clarification - accusing someone of lying, provided you have evidence, is allowed Calling someone a liar isn't. There is a crucial distinction - calling someone a liar is expressing an opinion about someone's character, whilst saying someone lied is a statement of fact.

[@SM-lb2do]

Calling someone a liar implies they cannot be trusted in future - and therefore can never be regarded as a factual statement

[@donniedanko]

Make a claim you can’t back up then be surprised and cry when you get called a liar… for lying.

[@RaptorNet]

I'd be ashamed to be on that panel with those hypocrites.

[@ljd8520]

I can't stand this person.

[@MrJonnybebad]

We need more women like Kemi in Parliament ,

[@matthewsmith908]

We really don't, we need fewer transphobes, homophobes in parliament, just fewer hateful people in general. I hope she loses her seat at the next election, along with 95% of the Conservative party

[@annamari7863]

no, we don't. And we don't need Kemi, Priti, Suella like men either. I am a feminist, but these women are just so unnecessarily and stupidly war-like.

[@stevenmarshall189]

We really don't!

[@80PercentScottish]

She's not a homophobe at all. She is actually trying to stop gay people getting transed, which is happening despite that lying witch touting otherwise.

[@80PercentScottish]

If you're a feminist you would be standing against men taking what women have fought for, by thinking a wig and makeup constitutes being a woman.

[@superbantam523]

A tory saying you can't just make things up 😅 Then minute later saying unconvincingly I'm sure we have the data......meaning we've probably deleted it

[@kevinsmarts9953]

Was it in her Whatsapps?

[@user-xh3wr1do7k]

Going on this performance, Kemi Badenoch was the right choice as leader.

[@allanashton5187]

It must be like walking on eggshells at one of these sessions in case you say one single word out of place.

[@PAUL25926]

We don’t want to hurt anybody feelings do we?Not like the old days when you could tell the truth and not be surrounded by a mob screaming at you.

[@goodlookinouthomie1757]

You don't have to speak a word out of place. They'll take your words and project meanings onto them to fit the political agenda anyway.

[@jimbowers8278]

@@PAUL25926 Not like the old days when people laughed about gay bashing, and the police would beat up transgender women?

[@ascgazz]

⁠@@goodlookinouthomie1757it’s called “politics” for a reason mate. 🤦🏼‍♂️

[@baileygregory9192]

​@@jimbowers8278the god old days

[@Richardtv1968]

The presiding lady shows a lot of subjectivity …… or you are the chair and you will act objectively and fair, or you are completely biased

[@Patricco0181]

The world has gone mad

[@jonjohooper9485]

Well done love go on girl

[@Mac398td]

Nothing in all the world of politics is so intractable as a band of zealots, conscious that they are in a minority, yet armed by accident with the power of a majority.

[@sandramartin5809]

Oh I like her, I've seen her interviewed before, if anyone misquotes her or gives the wrong information she will put them right, there are some MPs worth their position and she's definitely one I would vote for.

[@moif_velocita]

Google Badenoch and epidemic. She is a liar

[@beaniena3123]

Kemi is so right to stand her ground. Someone claims she said something which she didn't. Kemi correct her. Questioner shows herself up to be incompetent and plays the victim.

[@moif_velocita]

Google Badenoch and epidemic. Badenoch is the liar

[@AndyT1]

The only problem is Kemi did liken it to a disease by call it an epidemic. Kemi made a fool of herself here by falsely accusing the other MP by asking where she had used the word disease when the other MP made no such claim.

[@ravencole8727]

@@AndyT1 Was Kate Osborne likening children who live below the poverty line to a disease when she said that "there's a child poverty epidemic"? If we use her own disingenuous interpretation then that's the inevitable conclusion. Thankfully most adults are able to understand the use of figurative language.

[@Justthegoodstuff-gh2xx]

​@@AndyT1 The lady did not technically lie. The definition of "epidemic" is the spread of a disease What she is doing is more subtle than lying. Because even though it wasn't a lie it was a twist that *purposefully* leaves the audience with a mistruth. Her re-wording was purposeful - to leave us thinking that Kemi thinks of these *children and young people AS a disease.* It leaves you thinking Kemi has dehumanised them when she hasn't. This is purposeful manipulation and defamation that she knows she can't be held accountable for. Kemi actually said *"almost an epidemic"* to refer to a massive 1600% increase in gender referrals (around 5000% in the young female demographic!!!) Even if you ultimately disagree with Kemi, it is more than understandable for someone to make a connection to something that is spreading. People do also use the word "epidemic" in a more flexible way to describe social contagion and trends. Last point. Countless thousands of trans identifying people agree there is a social contagion element. Detransers describe it in detail. And everyone else sensible can see it too. The woman technically didn't lie, but she is however purposefully spreading false beliefs!

[@reginaanim8287]

The second lady should stop defending her friend

[@Harlembrown]

So, the Cambridge dictionary defines a liar as someone who tells a lie. How was this woman NOT a liar? And she seemed intentional in her use of the lie.

[@kevinsmarts9953]

The primary definition of epidemic from that same dictionary: "the appearance of a particular disease in a large number of people at the same time" Kemi used the term epidemic and therefore did liken it to a disease. That is how this woman is not a liar.

[@groundcontrol436385]

@@kevinsmarts9953 Why is one restricted to the primary definition? Pandemic is often used to describe what is "overly prevalent" in society - another perfectly proper usage of the word. The MP knew perfectly well Badenoch was using it to describe how widespread something was. By linking it to the word 'disease," the MP was trying to inflame the situation and accuse Badenoch of calling people diseased. Completely intellectually dishonest. Don't anyone say "infectious laughter" around this MP. 🤣

[@shygeist]

​@groundcontrol436385 you're being semantic. Why use the word epidemic as opposed to "widespr ead" if that is indeed what she "really" meant. Cmon, no one says that unless they have an actual issue with something

[@groundcontrol436385]

@@shygeist I'm the one being semantic? 🤣

[@kevinsmarts9953]

@@groundcontrol436385 If you say infectious laughter then the implication is the laughter. If you just say infection it implies a medical problem. The word that was use was endemic and not pandemic. You're not doing very well here.

[@barryevans791]

It probably came from an un-named source on the internet. Kemi is absolutely correct that unless you can verify the information, it should not be made in a commitee that is being broadcast to the public.

[@connor5669]

She literally called trans people an "epidemic" in this very video. How can you be the obtuse

[@barryevans791]

​@@connor5669 Did you just call me obese? How very dare you, you fat-phobic body shamer!

[@moif_velocita]

@@barryevans791 OBTUSE is the opposite of ACUTE - in this context it means your stupid

[@bigbabatunde1218]

@@moif_velocita You're not 'your'. You lot are ironic.

[@barryevans791]

@@bigbabatunde1218 So it isn't nice to be mis-quoted then?

[@OccamsToothbrush]

Only snowflakes would describe that exchange as “furious”. Human resilience is at an all time low due in part to ridiculous media-generated sensationalist hyperbole.

[@lile9413]

If you said something that is not true, then you’re a liar.

[@benlowe1701]

In this case, it was true. 0:50 She calls it an epidemic. Right there. She says "I will say again: Almost an epidemic."

[@Aloddff]

Comparing children to a contagious spread of disease (epidemic) is bigotry

[@menshevik1012]

Well done Kemi.

[@davemarriott]

What a waste of my money.

[@HeyJustMe89]

Yes Kemi! Well done calling the BS out

[@moif_velocita]

Google Badenoch and epidemic. She is the liar

[@ford289cid7]

At 0:48, the lady in green, (Badenoch), used the word "epidemic", which certainly is used when dealing with a disease. So what is Badenoch whining about? Not just whining, but making false and offensive accusations toward the MP.

[@ford289cid7]

@@goodlookinouthomie1757 Epidemic and disease are synonyms.

[@fuckamericanidiot]

​@@ford289cid7Did she use the word disease? "Hate speech is an epidemic" You: **nods approvingly**

[@johnerichoare7732]

Should the next Parliament be in coalition with a combined Cabinet of political ministers from the Conservative Party, with Kemi Badenoch as prime Minister and the Reform Party leader as Deputy Prime Minister? To balance the two parties with competent MPs, I will not bother to vote at eighty-six years old. John Eric Hoare, British Australian and Norwegian international mariner. Retired in Dover, Kent.

[@traciegermain7463]

Kemi is the voice of reason that is desperately needed in regards to not just this, but other issues. I also can't believe that you can't now call someone a lier if they are lieing about you!! What is this world coming to?? How can anybody debate an issue when one is lieing and the other isn't allowed to call that out. Those women should be ashamed of their behaviour.

[@fidel681]

Badennoch is a right wing extremist, not a voice of reason.Shes tied in with the American Christian right.

[@moif_velocita]

Google Badenoch and epidemic. Badenoch is the liar

[@ravencole8727]

@@moif_velocita Kemi's original statement was there's "almost an epidemic of young gay children being told that they are trans". She's saying there's a social trend of adults telling children they are born in the wrong body, not that these adults are diseased.

[@moif_velocita]

@@ravencole8727And that is also a lie. Adults are NOT telling children they are trans. That is a right wing dog whistle designed to invoke a negative emotional response from people who allow their ignorance to blind them to the simple truth that trans children exist and denying they do, and requiring them to be silenced about their identity as Badenoch does, is child abuse.

[@Justthegoodstuff-gh2xx]

​@ravencole8727 They know, they just so badly need to jump on any opportunity to twist it to look like sensible people are the bad guys.

[@robertwilliamson9255]

She is a very capable young woman !!

[@Leergreen164]

An attempt to stick a label on Kemi failed. Liars wanting to hide behind asking a question.

[@davidbebbington5101]

For those that are confused. Using the term epidemic means "the wide spread occurance of an infectious disease". This is the dictionary definition. So yes saying trans is now an epidemic is clearly comparing it to a disease. No matter where you stand on the topic, it was clearly not a lie to feed the meaning back to look for the intent. Although it was poorly done.

[@fabiennemitchell2371]

That's only one definition, or use of, the use of the word epidemic: excessively prevalent Or very widespread growth or extent

[@davidbebbington5101]

@@fabiennemitchell2371 it does not matter. Those other terms are derived from the original meaning as it literally means 'on people'. The main point being though is that it is not a lie for a reasonable person to have drawn this conclusion on what is being said. The minister should of clarified the meaning and the MP should have asked for clarification. Rather than the primary school politics we saw from all of them!

[@fabiennemitchell2371]

@@davidbebbington5101 It does matter. We do not know if Kemi Badenoch used the word "epidemic", and if so, what was meant. If the woman asking the questions had made more comprehensive notes, this issue would have been easily clarified as the word has a primary meaning of the spread of disease and other meanings about the wide spread prevalence of a thing. English grammar permits metaphors, smilies etc to quickly emphasise or visualise a subject matter. Kemi Badenoch, quickly understood that calling the woman a liar was unacceptable in Parliamentary standards (and perhaps reality) but stressed the untruthful nature of the statement.

[@davidbebbington5101]

@@fabiennemitchell2371 OK guessing you have not actually watched the video. The word is used around 50s in and doubled down on. Also using it as a metaphor literally means you are using it for it's likeness to what you are saying I.E. an infectious disease.

[@fabiennemitchell2371]

@@davidbebbington5101 I've watched the video again, as you have. Kemi referred to the criminal conduct of some men pretending to be trans as being "almost an epidemic" meaning a wide prevalence of a thing (ie. unwarranted or criminal conduct - sexual offences). She made clear that life would be better for trans if these matters were addressed. The other woman did not question that definition but then accused Kemi of referring to young people coming out as trans as being like a disease (1:27). This is where the spat arose.

[@robertcarter8600]

Pity quarrels are the same through centuries and classes. Only the absence of pans and plates prevents the spectacle of kitchen fight.

[@fabmissb]

0:50 She sits there and goes, “Yeah, it’s like an epidemic.” The Labour MP goes, “So you’re likening it to a disease.” “How dare you? Where did I say disease?” You implied it, ma’am, by referring to it as an epidemic. An epidemic is, by definition, the rapid spread of a disease, ergo you’ve compared being trans to being diseased. Imagine I called someone a prostitute, and they said I called them a whore, and my objection is that I didn’t say the word whore. That’s what this is. So stupid.

[@brianw289]

A better analogy would be you calling a woman loose and that woman then claiming that you called her a prostitute. Similar, but different.

[@fabmissb]

@@brianw289 If I called someone loose and they said I called them a prostitute, that would be a lie. Loose implies only promiscuity, not sex work. If I call someone a whore and they say I called them a prostitute, that stands because whore is a synonym for prostitute.

[@brianw289]

​@@fabmissb Very good - I'm happy to take your example instead. Whore, definition 2: "A woman who has many casual sexual encounters or relationships." Like epidemic, whore has evolved to have more than one meaning. Does saying that there's been 'an epidemic of bankruptcy during a recession' imply a disease?

[@fabmissb]

@@brianw289 If bankruptcy is spreading like a disease, I would argue that using epidemic would be correct. Applying epidemic to a subsection of the population that’s just trying to live their lives in peace while being regularly targeted by the government in both big and small ways remains incorrect.

[@fabmissb]

@@brianw289 If bankruptcy is spreading like a disease, I would argue that using epidemic would be correct. Applying epidemic to a subsection of the population that’s just trying to live their lives in peace while being regularly targeted by the government in both big and small ways remains incorrect.

[@superduper9357]

Kemi is on her game!

[@anaconda470]

Wow, she caught her so brilliantly on spreding lies.

[@steveblease]

Yawnnnnnnnn

[@rosemaryalles6043]

Kemi. 💚 Don't give an inch. Well done.