GALAXY Astrophotography with the PlaneWave CDK14 & L-350 Direct Drive Mount! No Autoguiding Needed!

[@unfit2ultra]

This rig is incredible!! I love seeing them move in a time lapse.

[@MattDieterich]

Happy you watched the video!

[@grandmasteryoda9893]

@@MattDieterich how can take dpo photo when you dont have eq mount?

[@MattDieterich]

@@grandmasteryoda9893 sorry for the delay! I was running our IRF90 for field derotation.

[@brinkoo7]

@@MattDieterich y'all are going to make me drop some serious money soon lol! I would love to do double CDK12.5" scopes with reducers on this mount.. I assume being over that weight capacity it would be a no go ? I only ask because I see people mount ridiculous stuff on mounts like the EQ6R and overload them... I want the option of deep and fast, and wider and faster!

[@MattDieterich]

@@brinkoo7 haha that'd be awesome! Double CDK12.5s would be a bit over the 100 lbs payload capacity, but you could do a CDK14 on the inside and then a smaller refractor on the outside for widefield imaging!

[@utubevind]

Amazed at your efforts carrying around that rig. Not judging, but it deserves a permanent observatory.

[@MattDieterich]

Ya this was for at home testing and showing the power of quick easy setup with the rolling pier

[@bruno3005]

I cannot beleive that you are using a CDK-Telescope mobile and not in a dome. But I see the trailer you use for transport. That's all a big investment and I can only dream about it but not afford. But it is always nice to feed my dreams, so go on and let me dream.

[@dasimcoes]

Awesome . I've been drooling over this mount for awhile

[@MattDieterich]

It's so good!

[@curtismacdonald3444]

Matt, Thank for the video. Gives me I an idea of what I need to go thru for setup this fall.

[@MattDieterich]

Thanks for watching Curtis! What rig are you going for this Fall?

[@marcodelbo2154]

Amazing setup. Congrats. Awesome video. Thanks for sharing.

[@MattDieterich]

Thanks for watching!

[@compubyte2010]

WOW.. saw the price on the website for that ROLLING cart?? I said. NO way can I buy that, at that price.. I can have it made for SO SO SO much less?? .. but glad to see you got one. so I can see how it works.. much more beefier size-wise than I thought it would be! but still.. I PERSONALLY can't justify the price of it.. ( Mainly cuz I'm building an observatory soon LOL ) .. awesome video.. and thanks for showing the setup etc.. and as you said on a permanent setup it wouldn't need to be done all the time.. I'm really on the fence about getting one of these.. ( Or finding a used one for sale LOL ) ..

[@MattDieterich]

The rolling pier cart is definitely stable, but that is why it is so heavy and expensive. A lot of steel ha! I was only borrowing that system to test, but happy to answer any questions to have. Let me know if you need any help with the observatory as I do consulting for helping projects like yours. My email is [e-mail] if you have any questions.

[@compubyte2010]

@@MattDieterich thanks Matt will do.. My question.. I'm alt/az mode .. how long of an exposure can it do??

[@MattDieterich]

@@compubyte2010 do you have the derotating focuser with it? With the IRF90 or Series-5 rotator you can image and do astrophotography long exposures

[@wesleydonnelly2141]

I would have tried driving her out to darker skies. She's an absolute beast and seems out of place in a residential setting. Incredible rig my friend! Thanks for the ace vid!

[@MattDieterich]

Thanks for watching Wesley!

[@gregmckay666]

How do you compensate for field rotation in the Alt-Az mount? You didn't mention it but do you have a field rotator on the focuser?

[@MattDieterich]

Hi Greg, correct I was using the IRF90, which performs the derotation and focusing.

[@pshulins]

Very cool! Nice job Matt!

[@MattDieterich]

Thank you Paul! Glad you're here!

[@rickdaniell718]

Amazing setup! Thanks for sharing.....

[@MattDieterich]

Thank you Rick I am happy you watched!

[@Pipe-organ-recordings]

Great video. So you don’t have to polaris align? Is that and alt/az mount? So you get spider spikes with in you integrate your subs? Impressive you only needed so few points. Awesome stuff.

[@MattDieterich]

Hi Joe! No need to polar align the Alt/Az system, I only have to roughly point the azimuth base towards south. I can be off 10-20 degrees and not have any issues, but closer to south it will be able to platesolve easier from what I have seen. The derotator would cause the diffraction spikes to rotate, but I didn't notice them fan too much during editing since it was only 90 min of Luminance.

[@Pipe-organ-recordings]

Matt Dieterich ok first I hate your mount 🤨🤪 I had the worst problem with my alignment being way off from using any compass and not magnetic north, but I have it down now.

[@Pipe-organ-recordings]

Matt Dieterich i had some problems with the 1 meter scope on Chile and diffraction spike.

[@MattDieterich]

@@Pipe-organ-recordings was that the ASA 1-meter? Ya star spikes if bright will fan out when editing since the camera is rotating. Some stars it is barely noticeable on.

[@beatriceheinze2294]

Awesome image with my dreamscope 👍🥰! Well done, Matt! 👏

[@MattDieterich]

Thank you Beatrice! The CDK14 is a beautiful telescope!

[@sHuRuLuNi]

So ... why buy the wedge if this thing can do AP in Alt-Az mode?

[@MattDieterich]

There are pros and cons. EQ is easily to take flats and also the diffraction spikes of there's a secondary mirror support will not fan out as they would with an alt/az rig.

[@haroldmasterson3863]

What capture software and session control software did you use?

[@MattDieterich]

Hi Harold! I used PlaneWave PWI4 software for mount control and then MaxIm DL for camera control that night.

[@lordphilip]

I just saw your PlaneWave L350 direct drive mount with an Edge HD 14" OTA slewing a 100 deg/sec and accelerating at 150 deg/sec. You said: We do not enable these speeds for normal use but it shows the capabilities of the mount. What was the slewing set at in deg/sec in this video setup? And what is the slewing set at in deg/sec when you ship out this mount to your customers? Kind Regards Philip Smith

[@MattDieterich]

Hi Philip, the mount was using the standard slew and acceleration velocity of 20 degrees per second. Tracking LEO satellites requires significantly less velocity though.

[@andrebrossel2862]

This is so cool. Congrats my friend

[@MattDieterich]

Thanks Andre! Glad you watched!

[@alryan7471]

Great demo. I'd better start saving my pennies! But I'm curious, no field rotation with this setup?

[@MattDieterich]

Hi Al! Thanks for watching. For the derotator I was running with the PlaneWave IRF90 to keep the stars pinpoint.

[@Thuyastro]

That's great, Matt. We are planning to buy a CDK600 for our science center. Hope to be guided by you.

[@MattDieterich]

Wonderful news! Is this for the science center in Vietnam?

[@Thuyastro]

@@MattDieterich yes, this for Explora Science Quy Nhơn.

[@MattDieterich]

@@Thuyastro That is great news I believe our dealer, Metaspace, is working this with your team =)

[@KCM25NJL]

Video is a couple years old now, but a good way to improve that workflow would be setting up a local web based stack on your laptop that serves as a bridge interface between PWI and Maxim. I'd setup PWI to act as an INDI server and have a number of preconfigured tasks on the web front end hook into the INDI and Maxim COM API's to automate your initial setup at the click of a few buttons. Perhaps even have some templated configurables based on whatever conditions you are dealing with on the night.

[@PEWannabee]

how did you do long exposure shots with al/az mount ?

[@MattDieterich]

I had the IRF90 installed to do field derotation. That keeps the stars pinpoint.

[@PEWannabee]

@@MattDieterich genius solution

[@doorpeninsulaastronomicals3994]

Hi Matt. We are looking at getting a CDK-400 with L-500 for an upgrade to our club observatory (17 inch). Can you comment on the diffraction spikes and the flat fields for imaging? I seem to understand that the diffraction spikes will be "smeared" over time and stars would just appear to be round? Also, how does it work with flat field images? I usually take very fast ones, would this have any wired effects on flats? We are looking at the Alt/az mount since an EQ wouldn't fit well in our 10 foot dome. Seems that it's about 50/50 for EQ vs. Alt/az in image searches on theses. Your M106 looks great in this video, and we would be very happy with results like that. Thanks. -Tom, Door Peninsula Astronomical Society

[@MattDieterich]

Hi Tom, glad you're considering the CDK400 package. Just wrapped up installing an alt/az CDK400 here in Hawaii. Since the derotator will move the imaging train then yes you will see diffraction spikes fanning out a little bit. I was pleasantly surprised that the flats worked well also when I used this alt/az CDK350 in my driveway. They should work fine for astro imaging. Feel free to email me if you need more info. [e-mail]

[@davidb.5544]

@@MattDieterich Would really be nice if PlaneWave would show difference between using exact same imaging train with CDK 14 using the L350 in alt/az mode + field rotator and one with L350 with wedge so that everyone can see exactly what the difference looks like in an image. I've seen so many questions related to this and what affect it has on the image. Many people can't fit the L350 + wedge in an observatory because of it's increased footprint but then get scared off using the L350 + field rotator which would fit but worry the images would not look as good.

[@MattDieterich]

@@davidb.5544 Hi David, the difference is mainly going to be when you are editing. With alt/az to keep stars pinpoint the rotator moves the imaging train. That causes the diffraction spikes to fan out after stacking. There are editing methods to mitigate this if alt/az is the only size for your observatory. Reach out on email if you need anything for your observatory I can be reached at [e-mail]

[@davidb.5544]

@@MattDieterich Thanks for the reply. I think a lot of people would still benefit from seeing a side by side image comparison using exact same OTA (which will have diffraction spikes) with same imaging train but one using the alt/az mode and one with the wedge. When you say the spikes will fan out to me that sounds like it will make the star look blurry/fuzzy, but an image comparison would really help someone make their own choice.

[@MattDieterich]

@@davidb.5544 That's a great idea and one I will try to remember if I get access to the same scope in alt/az and EQ!

[@PhilFXPhoenix]

Awesome video Matt. Quick maybe dumb questions. I am going to purchase the exact setup you showed in this video. I'm trying to decide, however, should I get it with a wedge for an EQ setup or leave it Alt-Az as you showed in this video. I did a quick search on Astrobin on CDK14 astrophoto's and all of them I have initially found, the users are using an EQ setup with either a CDK14 on a 3rd party mount or your L-350 with a wedge. Is there a reason for this? Is the guiding just as strong in EQ mode that a guide scope is not required? If I want to do research work such as photometry and spectroscopy, is EQ better/worse than Alt-Az? I can easily see for simplicity of setup the Alt-Az looks a lot easier. I would think too, that the counter balancing might be trickier in EQ mode vs Alt-Az. Thanks much!

[@MattDieterich]

Great questions Phil. Most end up running on our EQ wedge as it's makes astrophotography a lot easier with capturing precision flat frames. That's important if you're doing photometry as well. Typically users still guide to ensure as many quality frames are captured.

[@markymapo1242]

Wow what a rig. I would have to roll this out of my garage onto the driveway. Wonder how difficult that is pulling it out in one pice. Currently roll my AP1100 out with an SV130 attached, but this set shown would be a nice addition to my collection

[@MattDieterich]

Thanks! Very easy to roll out and get setup for a night of imaging. Feel free to let me know if you have questions, my email is [e-mail]

[@markymapo1242]

@@MattDieterich I currently have the L-350, portable pier and CDK14 in the crates in my garage, but last night it was minus 4F and minus 23F windchill. Thus, will wait a bit to set this system up. stay tuned for questions

[@MattDieterich]

@@markymapo1242 excellent that sounds good! Email me if you need any help, or have questions. My email is [e-mail]

[@merrelmiller3045]

Hey Matt, Thanks for the great demonstration. I wanted to let you know this video pushed me over the edge, and I've placed an order for the CDK350 (with the IFR90), hopefully receiving it in the next few weeks. I did read your comment about flats and you said you take "normal flats", but my question is at what rotator angle? I'll need to figure this one out once the equipment arrives and begin imaging. Your guidance, please.

[@MattDieterich]

Thanks for watching Merrel! Glad to hear you're going with the CDK350 rig. Keep me posted if you have any questions, I saw your email about the flats as well.

[@jimmythechicken4802]

How do diffraction spikes work with a system like this? Do they just rotate throughout the night?

[@MattDieterich]

Diffraction spikes will rotate since it is an alt/az setup, but surprisingly they aren't too bad in the final image.

[@jamestickle3070]

I want to build a new observatory for at my university (adjunct) and we want to use a fork type mount because the goal is exoplanet research and tracking through meridian for hours is important. Would you suggest using the alt/ax with a rotating focuser or instead a wedge? We need to keep the star as centered on a single pixel as possible for hours. While the rotator is going does the image shift at all?

[@MattDieterich]

Hi James, which fork systems are considering? One benefit of the PlaneWave systems is they do not require a meridian flip, so you can continuously track through the meridian without any issues. EQ, or alt/az would work, but do you require precision flat fielding via flat frames? If so, then I recommend EQ to ensure you're flat field calibration frames are as effective as possible. Feel free to email me and we can continue the conversation. [e-mail]

[@hypersphereengineering6015]

Use a wedge, less likely to give you any grief.

[@Luftbubblan]

Very nice rig. I bit concerned tho: "pin point stars" They clearly have many issues! What went wrong here?

[@MattDieterich]

Hi there, are you referring to the CDK14 OTA?

[@Luftbubblan]

@@MattDieterich Hmm seems my answer/comment keeps disappearing, not sure its getting deleted or something.

[@Luftbubblan]

​@@MattDieterich An attempt to reply without the link: Hi, had to look at the video again to find the section i referred to. video at 6:45 I also see now why it could potentially be bad, it runs as alt/az correct? Probably the reason why since you also are pushing long subs. Hope you don't take it the wrong way but to me that is not "pinpoint" stars in any way shape or form.

[@MattDieterich]

@@Luftbubblan haven't seen it come through, but happy to answer your question if you post it here.

[@MattDieterich]

@@Luftbubblan OK ya that's field rotation as I only did a small pointing model and was running unguided. For permanent installs I shoot at least 100 point models with a denser sampling near Zenith where derotation is the most demanding. From there the field rotation would be resolved and then I would add on an OAG for guiding.

[@richardasarisi3105]

Matt there is no wedge? What is de-rotating?

[@MattDieterich]

Hi Richard! Correct I was running the rig in Alt/Az configuration. I used the IRF90 to perform the derotation, so the star remained pinpoint in 5-min subs.

[@jamesdougan8789]

g`day what a unbelievable set up. it certainly puts my celestron evolution mount with a 8" edge to shame lol i would never get sick of watching it go through its pointing model checks /setup thanks for the video its very much appreciated and i am thoroughly jealous now I WANT ONE lol cheers james D

[@MattDieterich]

Thanks for watching James! The pointing model run always impresses me especially since no polar alignment is needed for the Alt/Az setup.

[@cesarecannavo1134]

Wow, very great mount is.I liked very much ALL. One question please, you used MAC or PC Windows? The part that you of rear part from CDK14" mounted, what is the great part? Thanks. Is really full Direct Drive Motor? Also no gear or only magnetic system? Thanks for recension, coole video.. Good Bye from Switzerland.. (*_*)

[@MattDieterich]

Yes the L-series is fully direct drive controlled. The software that controls the mount is PWI4 and it runs on Windows. The focuser used was the PlaneWave IRF90, which has a built in derotator if running in Alt/Az orientation.

[@nkondrashov]

A dream mount! I think this is the most affordable Direct Drive mount on the market even with equatorial wedge (+3k). What I like in DD is durability and zero maintenance there's almost nothing can break. This is my first choice for a permanent setup in observatory. What I didn't expect that someone will use it in portable setup! Amazing!

[@MattDieterich]

Oh ya the direct drive mounts are such a treat to use and open up fun satellite/ISS tracking work!

[@hank3327]

Thanks for this nice demo. I’m I intrigued by the possibility to uses PlateSolve2 to measure the mean/median star diameter of an astro-image as demonstrated in your video. PlateSolve2 is widely used for plate solving using the command line but getting the median star diameter of an image is only available in the pull down menu. Could you or PWI engineering share how to interface with PlateSolve2 (commandline?) to extract the median star diameter from an image?

[@MattDieterich]

That is a great question and something I'll have to ask engineering about. Can you send me an email about this? [e-mail]

[@M31glow]

Matt, what happens if one or more of the stars on your pointing model are obscured by the trees around your home? A second question is there any plans to add camera support to the PWI4 software. With no need for guiding with the L350 and builtin plate-solving you really don't need any other software.

[@MattDieterich]

Great questions Walter. PWI4 does not add points to the model if the point isn't recorded such as shooting at a building or tree. That way your model doesn't degrade. We have talked about adding camera support, but it's a lot of time to develop that in house, so using off the shelf MaxIm software is the quickest way to have quality camera control for building the model.

[@dgv646]

so what happens with field rotation?

[@MattDieterich]

The PlaneWave IRF90 focuser rotator performs derotation to keep the stars pinpoint during long exposure.

[@dgv646]

@@MattDieterich oh nice!!!!

[@regp5]

Very nice! Surprised to see you using a 1600mm. I thought one would need a CCD with much larger pixels for such a telescope.

[@MattDieterich]

At the time the 1600 was the only option, but ideally a 16803 size sensor is the way to go. The 14 has a large corrected 70mm image circle, so the 16803 is a great option.

[@regp5]

I dig it. One thing I'm still curious about though... How is it possible for an alt/az mount to do 5 minute subs? How does it compensate for field rotation?

[@MattDieterich]

@@regp5 indeed the alt/az mount is sending field rotation speeds to our rotating focuser attached to the CDK14 to accurately derotate. I've pushed that rotator to 15 min subs before for narrowband images :)

[@jamestickle3070]

@@MattDieterich so I’m assuming the rotating focuser is an add-on? What kind of price is the Focuser in ratio to the mount itself?

[@willyang2431]

Will the camera hit the mount?

[@MattDieterich]

With this setup there is enough swing through to ensure the camera does not hit the fork arm.

[@willyang2431]

@@MattDieterich great, thank you!

[@davidmartinez9130]

How much does a complete kit cost?

[@MattDieterich]

The CDK350 package with focuser is about $31k. Once you add a camera on with filters typically lands closer to $40k.

[@astrophotonics9470]

Few things impress me anymore, rolls a Planewave out to the driveway, that's pretty hard to top 😄 +10

[@MattDieterich]

Haha! Definitely makes astrophotography from home pretty exciting, even under light polluted skies.

[@ricardosnauwaert6826]

how do you take flats ?

[@MattDieterich]

I captured normal flats. Even with the derotator I was shocked how well they worked!

[@ricardosnauwaert6826]

@@MattDieterich with a flat field generator ? T shirt method ? I want to soak in all the info i can get before i take a decision :)

[@MattDieterich]

@@ricardosnauwaert6826 I used a large TV actually with a white scree haha. They worked pretty well!

[@yosmith1]

amazing setup, even more so that it doesn't need guiding.

[@MattDieterich]

Hi Neil! Ya I definitely am impressed that no guiding is needed as well!

[@haroldmasterson3863]

Very impressive, but I have two questions. First I didn’t see any attempt to balance the load on the mount prior to use and second you did not seem to tune the mount prior to use. Could you comment on this.

[@MattDieterich]

Hi Harold, I balanced the telescope before imaging, but didn't go through that in detail during the video. Also, I tuned the motors previously and it isn't necessary to retune after each use since the load distribution was the same.

[@mikebenengtouncry3613]

holy crap that’s a rig !!!

[@MattDieterich]

Fun systems to install!

[@mikebenengtouncry3613]

@@MattDieterich yuppp must’ve been awesome to build that

[@ranjitgovindaraj]

5 min unguided😳😯

[@MattDieterich]

Ya pretty amazing! Only limited to the 5 min subs since the skies were so bright.

[@farleytaylor5493]

Great demo, music is draining.

[@MattDieterich]

Thanks for watching, sorry to hear you didn't like the music!

[@area51xi]

Feel free to donate one of these to me. It will be great marketing towards doctors. "If a neurosurgeon can set this up so can you."

[@MattDieterich]

Ahaha now that might actually work!

[@glennsmooth]

All the $ I’ve spent on gear the past few years I should have just gotten this. Woops lol

[@MattDieterich]

This rig is very fun to use and the performance is second to none!

[@BGoff]

I'm viewer 667!

[@MattDieterich]

Happy you watched the video Bryan! How are you guys?

[@matiaslopez9915]

What? just imaging being on the street at a night with a f* telescope and a laptop lol hahaha, i would be killed if i do that

[@MattDieterich]

Hahaha thankfully our street isn't too busy at night and we have a nice and flat driveway.

[@cliveroberts415]

Nice. I am wondering which kidney I can sell

[@MattDieterich]

Haha we only need one right?! =)

[@stephenwdalman2659]

Good way to spend 20k

[@michaelaldan6969]

amazing scope system....but...dont think you need that red light with all the light pollution around you...lol...just kidding ;)

[@MattDieterich]

Hahaha that is very true, but force of habit when out at night when playing with telescopes LOL

[@piertechinc]

You need a Mobile Observatory, cough cough :)

[@MattDieterich]

Oh trust me I'd be happy to tow one with my truck! ;)

[@ijontichy7179]

Is this magic even legal?

[@MattDieterich]

Hahah such fun gear to use!