Game of Thrones: Melisandre - The Purpose of Prophecy

[@thetake]

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[@aannahir]

Will there be an episodic take on the 3rd and 4th episode of GoT?

[@johnmartin4119]

Please do an analysis of the Lion King

[@nikkidolce7093]

If I saw season 8 in the flames I wouldn’t have watched

[@Dustmanpasha123]

Will be nice if you make a video on the sparrow sect in game of thrones

[@wadewilson8011]

I'm so glad people like you exist in this world. You understand context and narratives that were intended for audiences to get without having been explained to them like they're 6-year-olds. Marine Corps calls it: "Breaking it down Barney style."

[@Terry_Bell]

Melisandre doesn't get all the credit she deserves for all her acomplishments: * Convinced Stanis to help Jon to defeat the wildings * Brought Jon back to life * Brought Daenarys and Jon together * Gave Aria the pep talk she needed to defeat the Night King * Lit swords and trenches so we could see what was happening on the battle of winterfell

[@mrmeyerhofer]

I agree on the Stannis part but there ended up being no purpose in bringing Jon back to life since he did basically nothing in the battle. Yes, he united people against the Night King, but the Night King couldn't have gotten past the Wall without a dragon in the first place, which he wouldn't have gotten without Jon/Dany, so it's a wash. Lighting the swords on fire looked great but served no purpose (much like sacrificing the Dothraki cavalry in the first place). I don't really buy that Arya benefited that much from Melisandre retconning what she said before; that doesn't trump the fact that Arya had the least personal investment in killing the Night King, so having her fly in like Li Mu Bai was pretty Mary Sue. Just my opinion as a frustrated fan who loves the show and REALLY loves the books.

[@Terry_Bell]

@Super JLK on the show it was and even if it was her manipulating her profecy, it worked

[@Terry_Bell]

​@@mrmeyerhofer If Jon weren't brought back then the north wouldn't have been prepared for the night king, sansa would have died or worse at the hand of Ramsey. Arya would have gone to the south to kill Cersei and Daenarys would have gone to take the iron throne all which would have led the night king to become unstoppable at the point it reached kings landing. I agreed the show runners dropped the ball this season but that doesn't take away Mel's acomplishments following the messy logic of the show

[@kevinw712]

speaking of the swords, I didn't fully realize in that moment that the Dothraki hadn't really been given any dragon glass. And since obviously none of their blades had any Valerian steel, prior to her doing that they were almost pointless to bother having at all, considering it's only the VS or dragonglass that would kill wights. I didn't mind Melisandre making a call back to Arya about the list of eye colors (even then the blue didn't telegraph to me she'd kill the Night King, I figured it referred to all the WW and wights in general) but I could've done without her literally spelling out what Beric had just done. It seemed pretty clear from just the action that the "answer" about Beric was for him to save Arya's life, Melisandre practically breaks the 4th wall in then verbalizing all that.

[@redmage7716]

She is basically a evil girl version of Gandalf. I mean I can certainly see that in her, obviously it’s more grounded then lord of the rings. But yeah I love her, she burned a kid. How do you come back from that 😂

[@anonymousname5860]

Melisandre is a deeply complex character and I’m glad you’re deciding to analyze her. Great!

[@johnathonhaney8291]

Her great age likely distorted her perspective by the time she met up with Stannis. After that long walking the earth, you must want to die, as Sir Christopher Lee once said of Dracula. That led to the self-serving interpretations noted in the video.

[@anonymousname5860]

Johnathon Haney exactly. It probably was painful to walk the earth in a body that old. Her age also distanced her from other humans just like the video says.

[@b1na276]

she's pretty. she should do milf

[@Scarecrow545]

Gurm has said she's the most misunderstood character in the story.

[@generalhorse493]

"Prophecies are a double-edged sword. You have to be careful; they can add depth and intrigue to a story but they can't be too LITERAL OR too EASY." George R.R. Martin

[@johnathonhaney8291]

And yet so many GOT folk are going for both literal AND easy.

[@chasx7062]

@@johnathonhaney8291 yes, but prophesies have to be respected or else there be consequences

[@johnathonhaney8291]

@@chasx7062 There's respect and then there's fear. Cersei Lannister is a perfect example of the latter in action...how many have suffered and died all because of Maggy The Frog's prophecy? I see that same stupidity playing out in GOT circles right now with thankfully less lethal results.

[@midnight816]

@@johnathonhaney8291 What do you mean?

[@johnathonhaney8291]

@@midnight816 To wit, believing so much in any prophecy to be true to the point where it ruins that which you once loved. Cersei did it and now GOT fans screaming about what's happened this season are doing it. It's positively meta when you think about it.

[@Soma_Chronicles]

Man, props to you guys for trying to make sense of the writing this season.

[@blackflagsnroses6013]

Erick P. Must be a daunting task

[@fawwazn.1244]

@@blackflagsnroses6013 To analyze that something Illogical to something Logical definitely is Daunting

[@imshubhajit]

True.

[@thomasmcguinness365]

No this season is great.

[@yikes4946]

@@thomasmcguinness365 lmao

[@cynicalcenobia]

Do a video on the Faceless men/The Many-Faced God religion, please! Their motto 'valar morghulis' is pretty much the medieval equivalent of 'memento mori'; would be very interesting to see more of such connections between GoT & the Middle Ages. Great work as always, girls!

[@kevinw712]

As much as I definitely can't say that I found Arya's whole story thread in relation to the Faceless Men faultless, but I did find I very much related to like her emotional journey. Because especially the way Jaqen and the FM were introduced in season 2, I'd more gotten the impression they were sort of this noble band of super assassins helping to uphold genuine justice throughout the realm. We get there in Bravvos into the story in season 5, and yeah the super assassins label still fits, and it turns out they'll simply kill literally anyone as long as your check clears. That was kind of disappointing.

[@djelliott1156]

*women!

[@marlowemichaelson1366]

Melisandre is like the Fortune Teller from The Last Airbender. She says the volcano won't destroy the village. The team doesn't believe her. They save the town moments after the volcano erupts. At the very end, a side character goes, "See...she said the village wouldn't burn down and it didn't." So it's like, yeah she was correct, but the recipients of the fortune kind of made it become true, almost out of spite, because they were so sure that the fortune would NOT come true.

[@carolinagoldgirl8706]

I know what you’re talking about 😁 the last air bender is back again on Netflix! One of the best shows Nickelodeon has ever done.

[@saxs3351]

I think both stories have a similar message but there is a slight difference. In ATLA it’s pretty obvious that the fortune teller doesn’t have any power, she uses the same tricks that a lot of fortune tellers in the real world use. Melisandre clearly does have power and can see parts of the future, prophecy is also clearly a thing in GOT. Melisandre’s main problem is her arrogance, she misinterprets her visions to seem more powerful. By the end of the show she seems to understand her place a lot more and uses prophecy to help people make decisions, instead of trying to force them to come true herself.

[@Jmoney18123]

I think season 8 has showed that there is no purpose to prophecy.

[@johnathonhaney8291]

And it was hinted at as far back as Season 3, when Bran's companion at the time ran over several contradictory interpretations of a celestial sign. Follow a prophecy's advice in this universe and you'll only reap sorrow.

[@HannaJo01]

...and no purpose is character or plot development as long as you have a sick twist to shock the audience.

[@johnathonhaney8291]

@@HannaJo01 You sound like a kid who found out Santa Claus isn't real.

[@Jmoney18123]

Johnathon Haney which scene are talking about in particular?

[@johnathonhaney8291]

@@Jmoney18123 It's during the journey north with Bran being carried by Hodor while the Wildling woman (forget her name) talks about such.

[@ribbledude]

Melissandra kept throwing things against the wall until something stuck. Even broken clocks are right twice a day...

[@a5cent]

Melissandra's final premonition, Ariya being the one who will deliver the final blow to the NK (while having no knowledge of Ariya's training in Bravos), is a lot more than just a lucky guess. There is something to her visions. Yet, despite Melissanda finally correctly divining the future, all of the scenes about the "prince that was promised" prophecy turned out to be meaningless filler. None of it served any narrative purpose. All of those scenes and all the dialogue could have been cut and the show would not be missing anything. In fact, it would be better, because it wouldn't feel like the show had wasted our time with meaningless blathering. The point: Melissandra was not a broken clock. The show just had terrible writers.

[@AntoineBandele]

Not total luck. But ribbledude has the right idea.

[@u.e.9948]

a5cent e

[@PlayfulFruitLPer]

@@a5cent Not true, if she hadn't aligned the players by telling that prophecy, by resurrecting Jon and rallying Daenerys, then Arya almost certainly would not have killed the night king. It was all necessary to get that point.

[@a5cent]

@@PlayfulFruitLPer Blabbering on about the sword Lightbringer was necessary? Ehmm.. no... or we'll have to agree to disagree.

[@SmokeyLaBear]

Melisandre became one of my favorite characters. In Seasons 2 thru 5, I despised her. But when she showed up for the Battle of Winterfell, I cheered for her. S8E3's final shot of her fading into dust as she walks into dawn couldn't be more poetically appropriate. That's why I still love this show.

[@mrchiefbs]

Thanos snapped her

[@abhisheksuratkar]

Melisandre's first appearance came in S2

[@SmokeyLaBear]

@@abhisheksuratkar, you're right. I corrected my comment.

[@alexandrebeaudry8377]

She burned Shireen.

[@SmokeyLaBear]

@@alexandrebeaudry8377, yep. And burning Shireen started a chain of events that caused Melisandre to doubt her faith. Shireen's death kicked off Melisandre's character development throughout the 2nd half of the series.

[@FranY16]

Excellent analysis of a complexed idea and character. I was drowning myself in videos about "how it might end," or "the fate of Jon/Daenerys," but you're right! The best we can do now as humans is to enjoy knowing nothing...for now.

[@Dopecheetah]

Prophecy means whatever you want it to mean. That’s why prophecy is a tricky thing yo! A great King once went to the Oracles of Delphi and asked if he should go to war with another great King. The Oracles told the King if he goes to war a great kingdom will be destroyed forever! That great King went to war and his great kingdom was utterly destroyed forever like the Oracles said! You see it means whatever you want it to mean and that’s the problem! Prophecy is....flawed!

[@ApsaraMenaka]

then again: the chance that one kingdom is destroyed in the end when two kingdoms war against each other isn't too small. Prophecys are vague so they can claim "I told you so" afterwards no matter what happend.

[@Dopecheetah]

Carmen Exactly yo! The prophecy is more important to the prophet than anyone else. Fate is what you make it and so is prophecy yo!

[@KingOfMadCows]

It doesn't matter if prophecies are true or not. Prophecies are important because they drive the plot and character development. The Prophecy of Azor Ahai is important because you have characters who believe in it and use it as motivation for their actions. Melisandre believes in this prophecy and she does horrible things and manipulates events in ways in hopes of fulfilling this prophecy. Regardless if it's right or wrong, it has a huge effect on characters and plot. You can't have the character or plot without the prophecy. Same thing with Cersei's prophecy. She's doing all these things to try to avoid that prophecy from coming true. It motivates her and it's very important to her character arc. That "closing eyes" comment is inconsequential to Arya. It didn't want to make her go to Braavos and become a faceless person. It didn't make her want to kill people she hated. If Arya had never heard that comment, it would have made no difference to her motivation or development.

[@joryelazouazi3377]

I agree with you! But Arya at the point when she met Melisandre in the show was already thinking of shutting many eyes, so Mills words may not have pushed her to go to Bravos, but it confronted her desire for revenge and even confirmed it.

[@BigHenFor]

Melisandre is also a comment on how we try to oppose order on chaos, and allow ourselves to be manipulated.

[@murdokdracul]

Do you mean impose?

[@nykia31]

Our red priestess forever. One of my favorite characters. She isn't linear. She's a complex, ambiguous character who is capable of both noble and reprehensible acts. I think she is meant to represent the conflict between humanity and religion in that sense.

[@girthymcfatkid3870]

Wow, this is such a great and much-needed discussion! Comparing the unforgiving nature of misinterpreting prophecy with speculating about the show is brilliant. Well done!

[@deividchg]

One of the most interesting characters on the show for me. Thank you for making things clearer.

[@jerrij4242]

I was a good examination of Melisandre and her journey. I appreciate the examples where she's got it wrong and where she's got it right. Especially liked how you mentioned that she brought up the last words of Ygritte and Syrio Forel are they said to Jon Snow and Arya, respectively. A-

[@iornlint]

ONION KNIGHT VIDEO WHEN??? appreciate the quality as always, keep em coming xo

[@cactopodes6315]

“What do we say to the god of death?” *ad rolls* “Here comes the covfefe!” Thank you KZbin I needed this

[@mrchiefbs]

Cactopodes what do we say to the god of death? AD “I AM A SPANISH PRINCESS”

[@KabbalahSherry]

@@mrchiefbs - 🤣🤣🤣💯

[@SCHRODINGERS_WHORE]

Lol

[@robchuk4136]

"Brown eyes, green eyes, and blue eyes" basically covers everyone. It was an unlosable prediction. Melisandre was a hack. She got a child burned, totally screwed Stannis, and I wish the wights tore her apart. Good video, tho. I just wanna say, even here, clips from 'The Long Night' are still darker than clips from other episodes, 😆. That ep was hard to see.

[@johnathonhaney8291]

Yes, a hack with undeniable power who let her prolonged existence distort her perspective to the point of causing excessive suffering. How truly different was she in the end than the other, more mortal players of the Game of Thrones?

[@SoulDevoured]

It makes sense if it's meant to symbolize significant people to Arya/the world. Brown eyes - Walder Frey Blue eyes - The Night King Green eyes - Cercei? Part of the problem with prophecy is if you take it at face value any little thing can seem like it's the prophecy coming true.

[@johnathonhaney8291]

@@SoulDevoured Which may well be the point.

[@partycitydumpster]

She specifically excludes herself though, red eyes.

[@Terry_Bell]

Both Arya and Daenarys are mass murderers yet they don't get hate for it but R'hllor forbids Melisandre burns a disfigured child and ruins the lives of their horrible parents, Literally bye

[@andreadeagon2301]

Your content is more appealing to me than the approaches of most other channels, in that you interpret a text in insightful ways. Most others seem more focused on criticism, sometimes extremely enthusiastic, of show and writers, and fan theories. Your writing is very good as well. Thanks.

[@johnathonhaney8291]

I have never been able to get through Breaking Bad and yet I watch their analysis on it on the regular. THAT should tell you how above board their content is.

[@JailanSimon]

Who makes more mistakes? Melisandre or Tyrion 😂

[@johnathonhaney8291]

Yes.

[@dhorubaPRIME]

Tyrion is the worst at battle tactics but good at politics and people!

[@mrchiefbs]

Baraka Dhoruba but he saved Kings landing st the battle of black water

[@Terry_Bell]

What a stupid question, Tyrion of course. Mel acomplished her goals and went down on her own terms like a boss. Tyrion's future on the hands of mad Daenarys looks very grim.

[@IvaN-cf7qt]

@Sirius Stark Al Ghul i was about to write the same thing

[@j4242]

Brilliant as usual ladies, bravo.

[@danielwilliamson6180]

Melisandre is a truly complex character. She's beautiful, sexy, mysterious, manipulative, but, she makes mistakes over her predictions and the prophecies. She was well played by Carice Van Houten.

[@angelmontez8845]

I'm so happy you guys decided to do something on Melisandre. I really love her!

[@SurvivingAnotherDay]

Hey The Take, when Daenerys dies, can you do a character study on her importance to the story of Game of Thrones and call it "The Tragedy of Daenerys Targaryen"

[@iloveyourunclebob]

The show made it very strange to begin with by taking two different prophecies from two separate cultures and combining them into one (Azor/prince that was promised). The hardest part about prophecies is they are like the Bible. Everyone interprets it differently and everyone thinks that their interpretation is the right one. Take something like the Azor prophecy. Which, isn't even a prophecy, it's just a story about the hero of the first long night, I digress. So, let's say by the end of this Jon kills Dany. Someone telling this story from a thousand years ago, even if it's just a vision that they saw, this prophecy still fits in with it. It doesn't happen in the correct order and it doesn't happen to stop the long night, but how is someone getting a vision thousands of years ago going to know the exact timeline? Or, take the prince that was promised prophecy. An actual prophecy. People decided that it is for one person and one person only. However, if you look back at the series as a whole, almost every single main character has done something to bring the dawn. Including Stannis. Melisandre getting the prophecy wrong had to happen in order for the long night to be ended. This is where I take issue with prophecy.

[@iloveyourunclebob]

Let's also talk a second about lightbringer. I'm not saying at all that this is the case. The fun part about prophecies is that you can debate the outcome a lot of different ways. Lightbringer is a sword that gets shoved into a woman's chest and comes out flaming. Valyrian steel are swords who's lore revolves around human sacrifice and dragon fire. I actually really like debating prophecies because there are so many different outcomes. It can be literal, it can be completely metaphorical, it can be a mix, and it's always hard to pinpoint. Especially the way that George goes about his. He has said himself to never take the prophecies in his books at face value and to never trust a character's stories of history.

[@johnathonhaney8291]

@@iloveyourunclebob Here's a radical theory on this: none of them are right...at all.

[@iloveyourunclebob]

@@johnathonhaney8291 that could be it. I like debating things like prophecy, but I try to put absolutely no weight on them. I think it ruins the experience for a lot of people when they expect the way they've interpreted it to be correct and it turns out to not be. Prophecies are like the cotton candy of the fantasy genre. It's a fun little sugary treat, but it's not a meal and you should never make it into a meal.

[@johnathonhaney8291]

@@iloveyourunclebob And far too many of the GOT fandom have made that meal you mentioned of it. Even now, they're trying to use them as a guide for the ending or deceiving themselves on how GRRM would be any more faithful to one or the other. Some people refuse to learn.

[@firephoenix019]

You summed up my feelings tbh. But prophesies are one thing and depth another. This season lacks depth and detail. With all the buildup around 'The Others' since the prologue, seeing all of them die by a sneaky knife wound was underwhelming. I liked that Arya killed NK, but not the way she did. Ramin Djawadi saved that episode tbh

[@QuickLern818]

This season is hurting the show’s legacy-it’s better that it’s ending now before the damage is too great.

[@monroecorp9680]

The legacy was already hurt. 5 & 6 weren't great, we were just already invested and there were enough fumes to keep wheeling. 7 & 8 have been utter shite.

[@thaliethalassekane6685]

Shireen also has elements of Iphigenia; the beloved daughter of the King demanded as a sacrifice by a god for fair weather so his troops can go to battle. The Baratheon sigil is a stag, similar to the sacrifice of Iphigenia being instigated by the killing of a sacred stag of Artemis as well.

[@karlasantiago4793]

Yes I also figured it out too that it has a similarity with Iphigenia and Shireen because they were both sacrificed, poor innocent children.

[@corcordium8822]

Thank you for a well-paced, focused, and charitable/productive rereading of this thematic structure in ASOIAF

[@jonrockgoodpeopledosomethi6638]

10:07 GOT dropped the ball and showed her without the amulet in her false form. Oops!

[@gabrielvieira9165]

D&D: “we kinda forgot that prophecies were a thing”

[@lindseycassella3015]

I love how you put the fan theories in here in relation to the show prophecies. While it's fun to theorize it also takes away the enjoyment of watching if you do it too much. I like to read different perspectives and supportive statements to back it up but I try not to become too invested in a way of thinking because it takes away the enjoyment.

[@boromirboromir2632]

Could you do a video for Theon please?

[@benger1995]

I love every video you do !!! So amazing keep working like this !!!

[@LordMichaelRahl]

Unfortunately, this was a retcon. Prophecy and logic never mattered in GoT. But at least our expectations were subverted, right?

[@Kai555100]

Actually they matter In the books the ghost of high hard predicted Jofferys death for example

[@tylerbaldwin3269]

@@Kai555100 The show definitely doesn't care about what the books set up

[@astrowiz3544]

Why was Jon brought back by the Lord of Light if he didnt play a part in defeating the WWs?

[@johnathonhaney8291]

Interesting question, isn't it? What if his purpose lies elsewhere?

[@astrowiz3544]

@@johnathonhaney8291 Perhaps, but from what the show has shown us so far, the Lord of Light has brought people back to play their part in the war against the white walkers. Beric was brought back to protect Arya, Melisandre was destined to motivate Arya to kill NK, but Jon falls nowhere in this area. With 2 episodes to go, I doubt theres a bigger plot than the Iron Throne in the picture, and I doubt the Lord of Light cares who sits on the Iron Throne. His whole thing is preventing the Long Night.

[@johnathonhaney8291]

@@astrowiz3544 Don't agree...winning the peace is just as important as winning the war. The Lord of Light might care about that far more than we think.

[@astrowiz3544]

@@johnathonhaney8291 Peace? Ha, there will never be peace no matter who sits on the Iron Throne. The Lord of Light storyline is done with because the writers arent clever enough to continue it any longer with sufficient payoff. After 4 episodes, I can see how D&D think and it's not that complex.

[@johnathonhaney8291]

@@astrowiz3544 No, you don't or you'd have already told me what that ending is. Ever think there will be no Iron Throne?

[@MichaelaGrillo-my6ih]

I thought this was a fantastic, nuanced interpretation of the character, her arc, and the principles that underlie it. Thanks for sharing.

[@SarahGMoore-ex6kf]

Such a beautifully explained set of ideas. I absolutely LOVED this video.

[@ranc4711]

You do a great job! 👏🏼👏🏼 the take

[@whtyc]

Great video. Game of Thrones reminds me a lot of Roman literature and values- in Greek/Roman culture hubris was the ultimate sin, always punished by the gods. GoT characters’ fates greatly reflect this. I loved that you used the term humble. Only humility saves/redeems the hubristic characters. The Lord of Light only comes to Melisandre, or is able to fulfill his purpose through her when she fully humbles herself and submits. Just like Thoros.

[@imagoblack]

You girls are amazing! Keep up the great work!

[@pepper70788]

How can Melisandre see that Arya has a purpose... the episode took place with the lights out.

[@pyramid_iremide]

Thank you for doing a video on her

[@joecool6798]

These videos are great, but where's Susanna? We miss her narrating (no offense to anyone else)

[@loreninavloggingcup]

joe cool I agree, but this narrator sound a lot like Kristen Bell, which is also fun

[@INMATE2468]

there is no point. The showrunners didn't care enough to nake something off the prophecy

[@tsu6341]

They do care but prophecies are not a sure thing. It won't necessarily happen because it was said it would happen and that's what the show is demonstrating.

[@alexandrebeaudry8377]

@@tsu6341 This only sound like they flip a coin and wrote a script out of it. They even slightly change one prophecy so it could fit the death of the night King. I love how the show dealt with the prophecy in the beginning. How people believe them to the point they think they can not escape them. But in the 2-3 last seasons everything prophecy become either what was moving forward the story or completly forgotten. Bran's vision are supposed to explain why and how he get the thrones. While Cersei's prophecy end up being accurate at 98% but the 2% left were forgotten (The king would have 20 kids, while you have 3. Yours kids while dying. But what about "your little brother will kill you?" It would have been good if Arya killed her with the face of Tyrion or Jaime. The prophecy would be half truth.The prophecy in the last episode only serve heroism.

[@verycuteanimal301]

i'm sad because no doubt you all have put more thought into these characters than d&d ever did thank you, the take!!

[@Phantisma09]

I love the content of this channel and thank you all so much for your analysis of these characters! Keep it up! But does anyone else feel like Susannah reminds them of Marcia Brady?

[@Jezabel0203]

The whole prophecy thing didn’t make sense. None of the characters even knew about it (expect for Stannis) for it to effect their storyline or decisions. The writers were trying to sell the idea of a prophecy to the audience. Which just seemed weird when they ditched it.

[@johnathonhaney8291]

Not weird at all if your point is to show that, in this universe, there is little to no point in any prophecy.

[@Jezabel0203]

Johnathon Haney I understand that some of the prophecies in this series (book series) shouldn’t be taken at face value, but storyline wise it didn’t make sense to throw it in there in the show. Many of these characters didn’t even know about it. It was mainly sold to the audience.

[@johnathonhaney8291]

@@Jezabel0203 Yes, red herrings often work like that.

[@edmonddantes563]

Brilliant video ladies

[@Frederiekje221]

Excellent. Very wise analysis of prophesies. Applies in general to the predictions we make about people, professional ( psychology) or otherwise. Life narratives, narrative framing... Thank you.

[@neokoo1985]

I’m a simple man. I see GOT and The Take I click on it

[@Samkiud]

YEES! YEEEES! Finally someone got it and made thesis public!

[@SirEriol]

The end of Melissandre, the slow walk among the snow until her final resting place, was the only thing I truly liked about season 8.

[@martyna1628]

Prophecies in Vikings are a super interesting topic!

[@Rebeccaisbest27]

That was a great analysis!! Love your videos!!

[@gfreeman7192]

Great video! Love the channel

[@ShashankMore]

Perfect Take girls. Love your channel.

[@ilderogtyde]

Great video, and wise words. Thank you for shedding light on my favorite character Melisandre... ;)

[@photam2531]

I love your videos, they really brighten up my work week

[@chasx7062]

Did they change the name of their Channel....wasnt it screenprism? Anyways, they are retconning and apologising for Dumb and Dumber

[@pdzombie1906]

Here's a prophecy: Game of Trones is going to surprise us with a dissapointing end... Thanx, girls!!!

[@RmcBlueSky]

There are ppl out in the world who believes whole hardly in Nostradamus, the 2nd coming of Christ...ect. This is how our world turn. From the beginning of human. We always wanted to know how the story end. I used to always read the ending of the book before I start reading the whole book, but that didn't help me enjoy the story much either. The best historic story about prediction is the story of Oedipus. Some prediction is better to not know than know. Anyway, we all know what is in our future... Valar Morghulis.

[@tonyplyler6203]

You all are amazing!

[@chasx7062]

"I brought Ice and Fire together" and it all didnt matter in the end, but at least i nearly messed up again by handing the Night King a dragon 🐉

[@16poetisa]

Please do a video Bran and the purpose of history - and the opposing themes of ice and fire in the show.

[@grothmaul7385]

Great vid again! THNX!

[@wadewilson8011]

I'm not going to lie, I got chills when she lit up the Dothraki's blades and the Bombas protecting WinterFell.

[@cyk102]

what happened to the season 8 episode "take"? Seems like they stopped after episode 3, you guys provide the best analysis of the episodes.

[@kaarlimakela3413]

Certainty indeed! An often unrecognized fault of human nature ... it can cause too much reliance on confirmation bias ... from the Oracle of Delphi to Jimmy the Greek ... you take yer chances and sacrifice what you think you must, even sanity ... to achieve this certainty ... ironic or wut? LOL

[@nadinebrown7644]

Melisandre went out like a boss. The Red woman is the true Queen

[@diegom6053]

Melisandre deserved better. Great character.

[@loreninavloggingcup]

Not sure if Shireen would agree with you 🙃

[@natchnieni0]

You seem to be missing the point of why fans are dismayed. Arya was NEVER part of the Night King/Light Bringer/Promised Heir prophecy and it was a punch in the gut that all that talk was bagged in favor of the "Hero of Winterfell." It was a way to wrap things up quickly and it was like a bad lay. Skyler's hand job on Walter. The audience was looking forward to something we had no idea we wouldn't get. We trusted the producers to have a good idea of what they could do with what they built up and they fumbled for the sake of potential "fan service." Because they couldn't budget right.

[@johnathonhaney8291]

And still he does not understand. Damn near NONE of the prophecies in this universe came true...whatever made you think this one would be?

[@SoulDevoured]

An argument could be made that Arya was and that Dany and Jon were ice and fire, Azor Ahai, together. As they united to stand a chance against the army of the dead. Allowing Arya to become lightbringer. The problem is... the show writers have been incredibly bad at build up the last 3 seasons. The prophecy can make sense in how it played out but we weren't shown how it makes sense. The build up and the Battle of Winterfell should have been an entire season. Taking the time to build things up. Including the Sansa/Dany Jon/Dany conflict. And the battle itself should have been 2 episodes. With multiple main characters dying. It was rushed. Simple as that. Somehow they spent more than 2 years on it and rushed it. That probably could have been avoided if there was more thought about how to make things work other than throwing money at it. I think that's been a big problem with GoT the last few seasons, because HBO left the budget wide open. Each of the major episodes of GoT this season will have a movie budget and the run time of a movie. The problem with all that was there wasn't enough incentive to sit back and truly get creative about the writing. To have extensive planning to get the most creative vision without throwing CGI all over it. They're on a movie budget, with movie run times, they made it like a movie series. Not like Game of Thrones. And a lot of movie series are fking bad. But I have a strong feeling D&D and possibly most of the cast are sick of GoT and want to move on to other things in their careers. So... impatiences and rushing. They jumped into filming to get it done.

[@johnathonhaney8291]

@@SoulDevoured No blame to GRRM for never finishing what he started?

[@william41017]

@@johnathonhaney8291 no

[@SoulDevoured]

@@johnathonhaney8291 Oh we can blame him too. That's fine. I think he should have at least given better direction to the show these last few seasons since I think helping out there only caused further delays in the books.

[@road3547]

Great video, a very complex character. But I think the most confused character is the Hound. Please do a video on him.

[@CrimsonCharan]

They already did.

[@road3547]

CrimsonBlade 28013 No they didn’t

[@CrimsonCharan]

@@road3547 They did. Just look up their video on the Mountain.

[@MarkoParabucki]

Love the fact that you drew comparasons with the fandom 'prophecies', and their combing of the books and scenes on the show for 'clues' and 'foreshadowing' that GRRM has put through the text... One of the youtube sages, bridge4 (210k subs), has made a video following the Long Night episode, now claiming: 'the writing was all there; he was just too dense to figure it out' (his belief, based on book combing, and show analysing, was that the Night King would be cured, and yes, writing was all there for that too).

[@kaarlimakela3413]

A very good theme ... well thought out.

[@dywest123]

Wow this is brilliant! It does put this truncated season in a more palatable and understandable context. A lot of us fans are living with the uncomfortable uncertainties of trying to predict what happens to our beloved characters upset over leaks in a way that parallels Melisandre. Thanks so much for this💜

[@crocopie]

A cautionary tale for literalists and religious zealots.

[@johnathonhaney8291]

Which will likely be ignored yet again.

[@chingfai]

Great Video!

[@ingajones722]

Melisandre was as much a device of the prophecy as the prophet. She leads everyone to where they need to be. She may not do it intentionally, but it is just as she says, she serves the lord of light.

[@Saltwaterfish96]

Love your GoT videos :)

[@AceX47]

Amen for your channel sisters!

[@2ndround415]

This insight is profound!

[@aaronseet2738]

Much-needed fire for the Dothraki. That turned out pretty useful.....

[@CrimsonCharan]

Not her fault the Dothraki charged forth like morons.

[@rbfreitas]

great video!!!

[@DungForever]

This answered every question I had about her!

[@loreninavloggingcup]

Yeeeeeaaah a new the Take video

[@Prop]

0:22 Melisandre "Prophecies are *chuckles* dangerous things.." Indeed; especially when they're just completely ignored Full Disclosure: Anyone reading we can all agree Dan, Dave and George (for not finishing the books) have officially divided the fandom for now and forevermore. I'm a non-book reader, I have done extreme deep dives into the Song of Ice and Fire with the help of this channel among others. And this season is like D&D just gave up and hinged on "Hey! They're going to watch anyway" That is strictly hyperbolic; still, listening to this video, these KZbinrs that take pride in their work are stuck trying to make sense of a story that has become lazy. The build up and development over the past 9 years (22yrs for book readers) unlike prophecy appears to survive no purpose. Ex: 0:35 The scene with Melisandre and Arya; that's season 3, Dan and Dave negated that "prophecy," stating they did know they wanted Arya to be the on until around season 5. Without going into the multiple rants I'm sure the fandom has heard all over the Internet; it's a little maddening that the laziness of the show runners ultimately effects how channels like that; that are dedicated to their craft, have to bendover backwards to make it make sense (prepares for the hate) I'm Ready...

[@PrincessSybilla77]

Or maybe season 8 threw everything out the window and there's no meaning from the show?

[@PaigeSinclaire]

I think that she's a good metaphor or personification for evangelicals, the extreme part not the humbled part

[@deej5608]

YES well said

[@BDKing77]

This show went from Marvel's Avengers to DC's Justice League real quick

[@RockSmithStudio]

lol so true!

[@kassandra03]

I'd rather say it evolved like the dark knight trilogy (If you want to compare it to Superhero movies) Game of thrones is like the opposite of the Avengers.

[@Japan705]

Kai Anton Im not seeing the analogy. The dark knight trilogy was good from beginning to end. Game of thrones, not so much. The show started going down hill after season 4, like Dexter.

[@johnathonhaney8291]

@@Japan705 Is it because nothing you expected turned out to be right? The whole series has been about shooting the middle finger at every fantasy trope you could name. Your mistake was in thinking that you could anticipate the next twist.

[@richardthiesfeld3476]

Johnathon Haney I don’t give two craps about anticipating the next twist. It can be fun to theorize and hell I am guilty of it. What fan who has been invested in a tv show for almost a decade wouldn’t? My problem with the show this season isn’t just because of blatant fan service (if it makes sense) or having my expectations subverted (again, if it makes sense!) the last two seasons have been rushed and frankly the writing is sub par at best. There is some serious timing issues in this damn show. Seriously dragon stone is close to kings landing so how in the hell did Jon snow get from the North to Dragonstone so quick!? And frankly the pacing could’ve been fixed Easily at least make it apparent that time is passing quicker now. The story is being rushed to hell and back and they are trying to do in 13 episodes what would arguably take 20 or even 30 to pull off. Character growth? Character arcs? Throw it out the window because SUBVERSION. Seriously that’s the only ground this story is standing on at this point. To defy the expectations of the fans. That’s perfectly all right to do to a point. But there hits a moment where all you do is say oh let’s have a 1 battle war that’s 80 minutes long and kill arguably the greater evil. And sure the battle would have been pretty good if not for context. I would have preferred at least a season, 10 episodes dedicated to the LONG NIGHT, as opposed to one steaming pile of bad battle planning. And seriously that’s shit planning. WHY THE HELL DID YOU NOT USE YOUR FUCKING CASTLE?! Seriously, it’s a castle the whole point is to repel troops, those walls should been loaded to the brim with troops, with spears and bow and arrows. Also don’t put catapults in front of your castle put it behind the walls! Where you can use it more than once. And I’m sorry but the Dothraki charge? Dumb as fuck. The Dothraki are competent warriors and fearsome but they are Not stupid, at all the Dothraki should have been behind the castle that way to could hit the sides, they may still have died yes but at least it would have made more sense to the culture and characters. And don’t even get me started on Bran I have some serious problems with that that. He chose to warg in ravens? As opposed to bears or stags or anything else seriously we know he can warg a human why the hell did he not warg to at least help in the battle? Jon not killing the night king is fine I guess? Doesn’t bother me as much as other people. Would it have been more satisfying if he did do it. Yeah it would have. Arya even getting to the night king feels cheap but I will concede it was cool. But even in basic writing we are told don’t rely on a deus ex machina which is Arya at this point. And if she kills Cersei as well this show really sucks more than I thought. Cause apparently as long as you have arya you win.

[@gideonhorwitz9434]

True faith comes from not knowing everything and having the humility to acknowledge that nothing is 100% certain and be able to continue to grow and learn that’s what separates true believers from zealots and fanatics

[@justin8865]

Great analysis, but I disagree with you on the prophecy part. I really feel as the prophecy was a retcon so D n D could surprise everyone. Imo, the major story beats are from George; just how they're executed feels pretty bad and it cheapens any message, I kind of feel like trying to dig deeper is like jumping into the shallow end of the pool. (edited for clarification)

[@johnathonhaney8291]

I am glad to see you ladies handle the prophecy business of GOT with your usual levelheadedness. Too many other KZbinrs have been a pack of overly emotional naysayers, mostly because their guesses and theories weren't anywhere close to right. NOTHING in this universe works like the standard fantasy tropes do...so why should Mel's prophecies have been any different? It's also why I suspect that people have the wrong idea about Jon Snow right now.

[@Jmoney18123]

Johnathon Haney I don’t think that many people are upset because they’re theories didn’t come true. I think people are angry because the shows own explanation and justification for events have been pisspoor at best. To the extent that many fan theories make more sense then the shows in-universe logic.

[@AyelMathias]

Johnathon Haney people aren’t upset because their theories were wrong you know nothing of asoif if you think the show is great right now. this show is garbage the writing is bad, characterization is wrong and the fundamental story isn’t even being told the long night was underwhelming and the night king was just a generic bad guy with no purpose that’s not GRRM. They’ve simplified and ignored a lot in this show and now the last season is the lowest rated. Even people who haven’t read the books hate this season, D&D will be remembered as the two hacks they are as they actually deserve to be.

[@johnathonhaney8291]

@@AyelMathias Funny how you have just absolved GRRM of the sin of never finishing what he started in time so that D&D had little to no choice but to improvise.

[@EagleWeekend]

MELISANDRA IS AZOR AHAI!!!! She pulled a 'sword' from the flames... the sword was arya

[@shurabaranov]

well done. fantastic job.

[@aggelinal6924]

It's also about self-fulfilling prophecy, the fact one knows a certain prophecy makes him/her alter his/her/ decisions to fullfil or to deter the prophecy and it is because of these certain steps that it turns out true, like in the story of Oedipus. Meaning that if the person had not heard the prophecy or did not act upon it, it wouldn't have come true.This is more about Cersey tho.

[@judeannethecandorchannel2153]

16:21 Wait -- Bran did mind and time meld with the Night King... I think it was Nando V Movies who did a great video about that...

[@Mini-Toast_]

Let's stop pretending the showrunners put any thought into these esoteric concepts.

[@trol68419]

I love this channel but even you can't make the writing of the past 2 seasons not suck.