The Worst Part of Miles Morales’ Story (And How To Fix It)

The Tinkerer had the potential for great emotional storytelling. Although her failure as a villain is the worst part of Miles Morales' game, one simple change could've fixed the story. #milesmorales #spidermanmilesmorales #spidermanps4
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Chapters:
00:00 Picking the Worst Part
01:56 Precious Phin Hates Everybody
06:26 Good. Great. Smart. Plan!
09:38 The Stinkerer
17:58 New Game Plus Rick

[@GameDenColor]

The follow up, The Best Part of Miles Morales' Story (But It's Not Enough): kzbin.info/www/bejne/aZa3n4GJfamVndE

[@banonKING]

Keep your Rick is villain take, but don't do Nuform Rick... it's basically Electro again. Instead the Tinkerer should just be a Brother/Sister duo, just like there has been multiple Tinkerer's in the comics. Rick works with the Underground, Rick doesn't care about poisoning others as he has been, Rick has been losing his mind. Finn and Rick have a parallel tragic relationship same as Peter and Doc Ock in the previous game.

[@elbruszeboew2022]

You should be hired at Insomniac! But Rick shouldn't be electro 2.0.

[@KnucklesWTD-uu3ps]

​@@elbruszeboew2022All he would manage to do is get a different group of Twitter people angry. The otherside of the internet rage coin. From a normal person's point of view, Phin is just a villain like Mr Freeze. They have a backstory, but overreact and ignore a hero trying to help them. And the one time Phin/Mr Freeze realizes the hero is not wrong, they die. Nothing needs to be changed about Phin, else you have to change all the *male characters* with poor reasons to become super villains. But that is off topic from the political agenda which is the real topic. Take Mr Freeze, make Mr Freeze female, and you have Phin.

[@littletiffany9089]

​​@@KnucklesWTD-uu3psYou mean like anime? Zamasu is like Phin except Zamasu enacted a Zero Mortals Plan and destroyed most of Earth? Bad guys dont have good reasons for destroying the universe. Just one bad day

[@tyronweathermen9864]

Yeah but you got to understand something miles did lie couple of things and went behind her back for plans to destroyed Roxxon before finding out about Harlem being in danger and lying to people can really disappoint people depending on the personality but I do agree phin shouldn't attack Rio rally or whatever you call it speech 😬

[@BTBSOUNDS]

Phin calling Miles a liar and him not throwing it back in her face and just apologising for the entire second half of the game was the most annoying thing ever.

[@indedgames4359]

Miles is a bit naiv and goddy 2 shoes. Like a young spider man

[@jarvisfowlkes3200]

I mean the while time he already know who the Phin was but was keeping his identity a secret from her so idk what she was lying about he knew everything

[@GeraltORivia]

​@@jarvisfowlkes3200 just because you know the truth it doesn't mean someone can't lie to you if they didn't know you knew.

[@theoutsiderjess1869]

The fact he never said you almost killed my mom and you knew she hated Roxxon

[@BTBSOUNDS]

@@theoutsiderjess1869 for absolutely no reason too, her actual target was miles away (i can't help myself) in a truck on the bridge

[@stefangreen3770]

The fact that Phin almost got Rio killed but proceeds to get angry at Miles for lying about being Spider-Man speaks volumes.

[@thedarklightskin]

Yeah, but I can understand it though. Honestly I think anyone can understand it if they just want to try.

[@frogglen6350]

Well you beat the snot out of her. So gg.

[@stefangreen3770]

@@thedarklightskin Miles could’ve easily threw it back at Phin for not opening up about being the Tinkerer (despite Miles already knowing) and for not telling him about her brother’s death

[@thedarklightskin]

@@stefangreen3770 yeah but it’s more about how she told him about the whole underground thing and her being a part of it and him lying to her just to get info.

[@spaghettisauce1104]

​@@thedarklightskin I don't think there's much to understand with her character. She intentionally sends a group of armed terrorists to fight a group of private military at his mother's rally knowing 100% that she will be there and that there could be casualties. Not to mention I'm pretty sure phin isn't even the leader of the underground they kinda just comply with what she wants because she supplies them with weapons so realistically they coulda done what they wanted and things coulda gone way worse. But nothing excuses her of putting anyone else's family in danger because she lost her brother. She's apparently a genius but can't think of any other way to take down rockson? She doesn't even try to take them down she does the most bare bone stupid plans and nothing excuses her. Her entire story was whack and fell right on it's face

[@earthmagicyt]

I remember finishing this game and being so relieved when she died at the end. Miles was all sad talking about her sacrifice when it were her ignorance that got her killed

[@OscarLopez-ls9iq]

Ong bro I got so pissed off every time she would say dumb shit during the story, and ESPECIALLY during the final battle. Felt so satisfied when I beat her boss battle first try 😂.

[@indedgames4359]

​@@OscarLopez-ls9iq the idea Was that her ignorant comes from everyone lieing to her and her bros death.her death was her redemption. And her punishment

[@theoutsiderjess1869]

Same I didn't hate her but she was an awful villain I expected better from someone so smart

[@theboss5751]

Why do you all just ignore how her brother went out

[@Dctctx]

@@theboss5751 cause his death is incredible forgettable

[@natoriousthehopeful2786]

Two things: 1. Rick as the villain sounds like an interesting idea, and the fact it reminds me of Jamie Fox Electro is a massive plus 2. My only problem with the Prowler is that the relationship between him and Miles felt undercooked: if we got a little more time with them, I think it would have been better

[@drchanciepoo]

The prowler statement I agree the most (I like both), it didn’t seem too believable atleast imo. If he had atleast some more time with the relationship with miles would make it better I think.

[@jbktpl1245]

Yeah, this game overall need a bit more time in the story department for us to understand Prowler and Miles relationship, ect. His relationship with his mom and Ganki was alright imo.

[@N3gr0Nation]

@@jbktpl1245 Ong this game was short asf. Felt rushed playing the story the first time and beating it in a couple days. If they had pulled this Rick/antagonist idea and gave the game more time to flush out character relationships could’ve been at least on part with the first game.

[@CombatSportsNerd]

Agreed. This being a DLC really cut into how much time they could dedicate to things that needed it

[@darklord9581]

Well wee have a whole movie with prowler and miles and they probably didn’t wanna copy it or thought we already know their relationships.

[@kilmerval]

I knew I lost all interest in Phin during the final boss fight where Krieger said I don't care if you blow up this building I have insurance and they'll pay for it. After that phin is the dumbest villain ever

[@suzygirl1843]

Phin = Harry Osborne

[@Iron_Editzz8]

​@@suzygirl1843 Peter: "He killed himself!" Harry: *"SHUT UUUUUUPP!!!"*

[@adrianrossellruiz8904]

yeah, a better plan would ven been either trying to kill krieger or hacked and public Roxxon secret files to incriminate them

[@CombatSportsNerd]

@@adrianrossellruiz8904THANK YOU

[@no.1spidey-fan182]

​@@Iron_Editzz8in harry's defence Gob formula makes you lose your marbles

[@substandardeagle4738]

holy shit, it's so nice to finally see a video about how horrible Phin is

[@emeraldanimations2658]

Fr

[@waterh2o299]

Facts

[@kingjb554]

I liked her...

[@suzygirl1843]

@@waterh2o299 Not really

[@trvpmusic2569]

I liked her as a love interest for Miles I hope she survived some kind of way and they continue a romance

[@neonspectacle1298]

At least Otto actually went after Norman, Phin doesn't even try to kill Krieger even when he killed her brother, like how does Phin not realise that Krieger is the only one who wants new form, kill him and that puts an end to everything.

[@medalgear654]

Otto is just as terrible, he infected the whole city to get to Norman, which caused so many lives and even Aunt May. The difference is we DON'T actually know if we drove insane by the arms or if that's who he was the whole time and was using Peter. Another difference is that the game didn't paint Peer in the wrong either or Otto being in the right and still made it clear he was the bad guy who needed to be stopped.

[@ayushbajaj4708]

ok but that’s honestly even dumber. Like the arms are just mechanical arms. What the fuck do they want? They aren’t a symbiote slowly corrupting your personality, they’re just robot arms. This was the same problem in Spider-Man 2, but it wasn’t as bad there as it was more his science experiment going wrong, his ego, and his wife dying

[@GojiraRex99]

@@ayushbajaj4708 the arms aren’t like the Raimi films where they talk to him and have their own goals, these arms sorta just fuck up his brain so he’s not “all there” and not thinking clearly

[@theoutsiderjess1869]

​@@medalgear654 nah it was the arms his brain got fried when he debuted them that and then Osborn shutting him down was a nasty combination

[@ayushbajaj4708]

@@GojiraRex99 Yeah but I feel like that's still a lazy way to turn Otto evil.

[@MSTUD10S]

This was just like the flag smasher in Falcon and the winter soldier, where they tried to make her a sympathetic character, even though she was committing ACTUAL TERRORISM and killed tons of people. Great video

[@srstriker6420]

Exactly and also Scarlet Witch and the Ghost

[@Ivvelis]

@@srstriker6420 scarlet witch in MoM is kind of excusible, the darkhold literally corrupts your mind and i feel like thats like 60% of why she was doing the bad things.

[@lastmanstanding7155]

​@@Ivvelis Including enslaving a town? Yea.

[@jerrypierre7825]

beat this game for the first time recently and these where my thoughts exactly. didn’t like how the game was trying to make us feel bad for a legit domestic terrorist 😂

[@PizzaHutCEO]

I seriously felt nothing when she died 😂

[@HIWES433]

For a character Insomniac wants you to like (Phin), there are not a lot of things to enjoy: Tries to kill you and when you confront her about it she blames YOU for lying (even though that's very hypocritical for her to say), takes over a terrorist group and claims their intentions are good when the story doesn't highlight one single moment that puts them in a good light. Again kinda hard to sympathize with her when she uses the line "There must be sacrifices for a better future" Tl;DR Marvel's Spiderman: Miles Morales tries to make you sympathize with a giant hypocrite.

[@srstriker6420]

Yeah this is just like the Flag Smashers from Falcon and the Winter Solider and the Ghost from Antman and the Wasp

[@HIWES433]

​@@srstriker6420 Gotta be honest I've not seen one single Antman movie haha. Still, yeah the Flag Smashers' decision to start viewing civilian casualties as necessary was weird as hell and came out of nowhere.

[@no.1spidey-fan182]

Tell me I'm wrong...but wouldn't it have made more sense for Phin for be an Anti Hero vigilante instead of a straight up villain...especislly the terror ist kind? Like maybe she uses tech to enhance a bunch of environmentalists who are against Roxxon's so called "clean energy". And because she's an Anti Hero it still puts her at odds with Miles because Miles is a Super Hero. This Archetype suits her character WAAAY more imho🤷‍♂️

[@srstriker6420]

@@HIWES433 exactly because why we feel bad for them

[@HIWES433]

​@@no.1spidey-fan182 Yeah, exactly that could be one of the many good options to fix this story. Instead of every interaction with Phil being Hostile, they could have put them in situations where they would work together and multiple times stand in front of an obstacle they both have their own view of how to handle the situation.

[@Frankie-kn3vg]

man i can just never like or tolerate phin, i didn"t feel like i should feel a connection for and her her plan was just so stupid

[@blank5768]

Bro litteraly lied to her twice and she acted like he'd kept secrets from her for her entire life

[@no.1spidey-fan182]

​​@@blank5768 Dont forget that she didnt tell him that she became TERRORIST while sending goons that almost hospitalized his MOTHER

[@gamerboy-pt7nw]

@@no.1spidey-fan182 agreed Phin is a major hypocrite

[@kazejay7229]

@@gamerboy-pt7nwhonestly I can’t tell if this is the new way media makes you hate villains by trying to paint them as misguided but then have them do really shitty things if so they are genius but I doubt this is intentional

[@YouDontGetMeHighAnymore]

in my opinion i didn't really mind her just played the game

[@calpal6249]

One thing I never understand as well is how the hell is Phin not sick as well. She’s been exposed to New-form longer than anyone but nothing happens.

[@duskburst144]

Maybe she was sick in the head 💀

[@seanwuzhere12]

I hated Phin. The amount of times I shouted at the screen saying “Miles she’s choosing to be a menace and is going to kill everyone, stop holding back and lay her ass out. I don’t care if y’all was friends.” I was glad when she died. I also hate that bs she did trying to justify her actions because Miles “lied” to her. Maybe it’s because you’re a freaking psycho?

[@seanwuzhere12]

@@UberRat8990 when a terrorist is actively trying to take people’s lives including yours and your mothers, yes. It felt manufactured because most people wouldn’t have tried to reason with a madman especially if they are about to kill you and half the city you’re in. I wouldn’t have mind if he did it once but he consistently did it throughout the game, even when warned about it.

[@seanwuzhere12]

@@UberRat8990 literally in the beginning of the game while Ria was doing her speech she sent the goons out and they were attacking everyone, not just roxxon and almost kills Ria. I also don’t know why you brought up Jin, this ain’t about him and NO ONE sees ANY Mishima as a good guy. Never even met or seen a comment justifying any Mishima.

[@KnucklesWTD-uu3ps]

Keep that same energy with *male* villains like Mr Freeze. I just find it funny how yall only point out these flaws in female characters

[@KnucklesWTD-uu3ps]

​@@seanwuzhere12Phin is a villain that has an overreaction over something petty. You overreact because Phin happens to be a female villain. You will overreact the same in Rocksteady's SuicideSquad game as well. Nice guy characters just try to Talk No Jutsu characters that turned evil. The "turned evil" character reaches a point of no return then dies. Just as Phin did

[@seanwuzhere12]

@@KnucklesWTD-uu3ps wtf are you talking about? No one cares that she a female. Shut up and stop trying to manufacture something that isn’t there. No one made a point about her gender but you.

[@raitaylor]

I forgive some characters not being fleshed out more due to it being a short game but i liked what I got out of Rio, Ganke, and Prowler. Phin was my only issue, and it's not her motivation but just how much Miles get thrown around when dealing with her, it was almost as annoying as Silver Sable with, Peter.

[@justaguy9416]

Phin was so much more annoying then sable lol

[@raitaylor]

@@justaguy9416 As a character, yes, but I got fed up with Sable punking Peter all the time when she's no threat to him whatsoever.

[@justaguy9416]

@@raitaylor I understand that it annoyed me too but phin was just unbearable she was an idiot thru and thru lol

[@thisbubblygoodness7611]

im glad you brought up Silver Sable too, it seems to be a trend where these really nasty, horrible women just seem to be praised as heroes despite the fact that they've caused so much damage in these games Silver Sable is such a terrible leader that she has no control over her own men and leaves all her technology in New York only to blame Spider-man for her tech being used by Hammerhead's goons, complete unlikable hypocrisy

[@julio.dealmeidabranconeto5831]

I think the game would've been better if they had made Prowler the main villain.

[@wizardpower7009]

I think it would be cool if Rick was the insomniacs version of the Spider-Man villain freak as a result of the nuform

[@justinmason6559]

Oooh, that’s a good one. Or maybe even insomniac’s version of Digger.

[@radrno7]

That would've been horrifying lol. It would be better if he turned into Molten Man. I know it's a different character called Mark Raxton, but ehh wouldn mind that change.

[@zeldagameryt4018]

What he was made into a different villain after getting exposed to so much nuform, he could have been insomniac’s version of someone like the Hobgoblin or something like that

[@ALIEN-DUDE]

​@@radrno7maybe his first boss he fights in a mech and calls himself scorcher (a bitter scientist who built a fire themed battle suit to destroy the company he was fired from), then miles convinces him that creating a terrorist organisation was something his dead father (Phineas the original tinkerer) wouldn't want so to redeem himself he tries to destroy all the nuform, but instead of it killing him it gives him fire/lava based powers and becomes the molten man, 2nd boss miles stops rick from killing Krieger but Krieger reveals that even if roxon gets destroyed he can easily create a fake identity and flee Manhattan, he then shows an ace up his sleeve, he has his own battle suit and becomes the final boss titanium man because nobody can report him to the police if there's no eye witnesses. What do you guys think?

[@radrno7]

@@ALIEN-DUDE You had me until the random Titanium Man finale lol

[@Poop_criminal]

Something i always thought was stupid was how phin would steamroll miles in basically every fight for no reason. She didn't have martial prowess and her technology was the same as the countless goons we fight.

[@indedgames4359]

Video game logic.

[@Ligmatesti]

Maybe if Miles wasn't such a giant pussy he would beat phin silly

[@trick2jee]

Yea, especially in the last fight. Like how is she just bodying Miles it made no sense😂

[@Doctor_Pickney]

Remember: Her entire character is that she's better at Miles at everything he does. Even when it makes no sense

[@Lightguardian_HOH]

@@trick2jee I mean the year was 2020 the year of Gen Z and cringed so hard when I seen the BLM graffiti.

[@tavinprice2310]

The part that I hate the most about her is that she KNEW Miles's dad died while at a rally, and still attacked Rio's rally knowing damn well what happened last time one of the Morales's was at a rally

[@JumpTossCatch]

This video and comment section has been incredibly validating for me. I literally couldn't stand Phin from Moment ONE.... of screen time and I swore that I was the only one who felt that way and like maybe I was being unfair.

[@HopeIsADrug11037]

@@JumpTossCatch right?? so glad my brother and i werent the only ones who hated her ass

[@DarthMechRBLX]

Miles: *Tells one lie that would’ve gotten everyone he knows and loves in danger* Phin: IM NOT GONNA LET YOU LIE TO ME AGAIN!!!

[@TheJadedJames]

Phin not revealing to Phin that he’s Spider-Man isn’t the problem here insofar as Miles joining the Underground under false pretenses. Miles later botched her next plan to save the Rhino. In Phin’s mind, Harlem is toast if she doesn’t destroy Roxxon so it isn’t crazy to me that she was frustrated out of dealing with Miles

[@DarthMechRBLX]

@@TheJadedJames she could’ve pulled a Martin Li. post the video of Rick’s death, ruin Krieger’s reputation and bring Roxxon down with him.

[@theunicornsys]

@@DarthMechRBLX she dropped her phone through the fan, which Miles retrieved before it died from his venom electricity iirc. She was unfortunately unable to upload the video for those reasons

[@DarthMechRBLX]

@@theunicornsys and for plot purposes, i guess she never thought to try and retrieve the phone and release the video

[@blacky8987]

@@TheJadedJames KID SHE WAS PLANING TO BOMB A BUILDING FULL OF INOCENT PEOPLE!! she was crazy miles was right

[@sf3252]

It always bothered me when miles let phin hurt his mom and didn’t do shit about it😭😭😭

[@150Hello]

Seriously though, if there was a QTE where you can choose to save her, I'd let her ass kiss the pavement 😂

[@marcusclark1339]

cause female can't ever be held accountable that's a "strong female character" never wrong, never critiqued and miles (male) can't ever call her out or he's wrong hence his simping

[@firstlast6226]

How he didn't get mad about that pisses me off considering his dad died at a rally

[@ma.2089]

@@marcusclark1339 i feel like lots of stories try the morally ambiguous woman trope, and some of them just fail to pull it off cuz they give the woman way more leeway than if the same character was a man. That’s not to say that male characters can’t be the same, and there’s a lot of them who are like that. But they refuse to hold the girls accountable for their actions or hypocrisy when they deserve it in some cases. Which is funny cuz in others ppl will demonize women way more than they deserve, more than if the same character was a guy. There’s literally no middle sometimes.

[@captainmarvelwilson508]

Because the script is forcing you to sympathise with Phin. It was like the writers at Insomiac were fighting between each other, that they had to rush aspects of the story and forget about common sense.

[@chilliicecream5456]

I would’ve liked to see Kreiger be the final boss, using a giant Roxxon mech integrated with reverse engineered programmable matter weapons. That way we get the catharsis of taking down Kreiger, combined with Phin coming to a realisation of just how much harm she has done, by showing how devastating her weapons are in the truly wrong hands (or what she considers to be the wrong hands anyway.)

[@FirestoneAnimation]

Yesss

[@silverblade357]

Miles: "The files are on the internet! This is over, Krieger!" Krieger: "It's adorable that you think so with people like Norman Osborne and Silver Sablinova still running free. The world needs better energy, kid, and I've got the keys to that future. Your little trump card? The powers that be will have it being discredited on every news station by tomorrow morning." ** "The story will be buried, and you two along with it!"

[@masterace9543]

​@@silverblade357that would've been a dope ass scene

[@ALIEN-DUDE]

Maybe even turn Krieger into the games equvilant to titanium man because in the comics Krieger tried to impersonate tony stark.

[@dash_naa2944]

Not to mention how cool it would be to see a bigger development of roxxon tech throughout the game, like exo suit miniboss enemies, rather than just reskinned sable guys My favourite part about the rhino fight was the realisation that the plating was venom proof, but roxxons stuff is still not as powerful as the combat suit itself, so can still be broken

[@moviehermit5631]

Way better take on the character than the game had. I can't describe how quickly Phin became so insufferable because of her arrogance while Miles just stood there and took every "friendly" reminder that she's so much smarter than him and somehow didn't get into Brooklyn Visions too. I just kept waiting for Miles to call her out on her own lying about being the Tinkerer. She even gets mad at him for lying because she could've killed him as Spider-man (just casually establishing that she was willing to kill a superhero and has most likely killed other people before, but we're supposed to sympathize with her because her brother died. As a wise Raccoon once said, "Everybody's got dead people! That's no excuse for you to get everyone else dead along the way")

[@nestorsifuentesaguirre2722]

She also never wanted to make things perfect. She hated the way things are. (Was it said like that in Guardians Vol 3 tho) Part of me wished James Gunn had something to do with the creation of this game in my honest opinion

[@brewmaster2912]

I actually like Tinkerer’s design as well as Prowler’s, I never knew people hated them Edit: yay 1K likes

[@AlreadyDD_]

Their designs are cool, it's their character that ppl don't like

[@dimensionzone8048]

​@@AlreadyDD_ why would anyone hate prowler's character though lmao

[@kevind3974]

@@dimensionzone8048 prowler can be weird is why. He will do absolutely anything for his nephew, even die. All except going straight The tinkerer thou had the same fault as oto just withought the narcissist personality and inability to ask for hel. so her fall was a bit to abrupt

[@no.1spidey-fan182]

​@@dimensionzone8048 Not hate but indifferent. His character doesn't really stand out at all tbh. And he's supposed to be important in Miles' life yet he's been MIA for a WHILE so it makes their relationship weak

[@AlreadyDD_]

@@dimensionzone8048 because spiderverse did it better

[@infinitepaladin]

Just finished Miles Morales last night. The thing that irritated me the most about Phin was during the final fight, Krieger himself basically said he didn’t care all of Harlem would be destroyed and she still didn’t believe Miles.

[@Star.6739]

I feel like they pushed the corporation bad message too far, that they practically ripped off O'Hare. Like, bruh.

[@HIWES433]

Also, for individuals that wanna give the excuse for it being badly written because it's a short game. If you don't have solid story bullet points to put in the game writing from the start, why continue to write this story?

[@dylansharp8471]

What now?

[@renatoperocchio4508]

Tbh the story was fine, the characters were simply so basic that the writers couldn't really weave anything special out of it

[@TFIta369]

Miles turns into Rocky Balboa when fighting Phin. He just won't block. 😂

[@prometheusvenom7189]

Phin’s character is awful the fact that both Peter and Miles lost their important person in their lives. Ben Parker and Aunt May. I liked for like one part. And that was on her first appearance when Miles is trying to repair his communities power box. Honestly everything felt great when Peter entrusted as “New York’s only Spider-Man.” To me that part showed Peter sharing the moniker of Spider-Man. It also shows that Peter is allowing Miles being able to be his own hero by being on his own. I just like the oath he created.

[@jbktpl1245]

I did like the oath too.

[@zach1997ism]

Honestly what’s really interesting is that Phin and Otto are very similar. Both are close to the main characters, both are geniuses, both are looking to get back at the people who wrong them, have sympathetic qualities, and go to extreme lengths to get revenge. But the interesting thing about it is that while Otto is better written more likeable, and more tragic, the game makes it clear by the end that he doesn’t get a pass and he is in fact the bad guy and Peter disowns him as a friend…yet phin gets a pass and we’re still supposed to feel sorry for her? SHE COULDVE KILLED RIO AND ALL SHE DOES IS A HALF HEARTED SORRY?!? Fuck her! All I’m saying it wouldn’t have fixed it but it would’ve been nice for a you should be on my side! I was moments like at end of the first game

[@Omnipotentmonkey]

being fair, Otto's actions were ultimately FAR, FAR worse than Phin's, while Phin was definitely worse written, it makes sense that she gets more of a pass when ultimately the amount of harm she caused was far, far, far, far lower, Phin's plan wasn't supposed to cause massive damage, when she realises the potential for massive civilian casualties she changes course, almost as soon as it's confirmed to her. she was brought back from the brink BEFORE causing that immense harm. but Otto knowingly unleashed the Rykers and Raft escapees AND Devil's breath on a civilian populace. can't remember if the game ever gives a death toll, but in population as dense as New York? the number would be massive. May can't be the only person who succumbed to it.

[@theoutdatedgoat6816]

@@Omnipotentmonkeyi agree with Otto having the more egregious plan but the thing that Otto has but Phin doesn’t is the fact the his arms due to not being fully tested affects his mind for the worst and makes him think on short term emotional rage to Norman. While Phin is grieving over Rick she doesn’t have robot arms that affect her mind for her to make bad decisions.

[@Omnipotentmonkey]

@@theoutdatedgoat6816 partially true, but also not, Otto was already planning his attacks on the Raft and obtaining Devil's Breath before he ever tried out the neural interface, we can see plans for the Raft in the lab the next time we visit it after Norman shuts him down, and he blatantly lies to Peter about it when questioned, saying he's "doing outsourcing work" while I think the arms exacerbated his aggression and anger, he was going to commit atrocities regardless,

[@bigtreeguy7336]

​@@Omnipotentmonkey I disagree with that. It's not uncommon for functional members of society that may even be considered nice to have planned an atrocity. Doesn't mean they'll act on it. Otto is a thinking man and in moments where his attention isn't occupied he might think of the devils breath plan. Under normal circumstances he would never do it. The arms made him act on an intrusive thought of his. I would give personal examples but ya know. Digital footprint. Anyway have a nice day/evening.

[@shinji2898]

I mean…she isn’t really given a pass, though? Miles talks with Rio on the phone about how, even though she did save everyone by sacrificing herself, she was the very reason why all this shit happened in the first place. I do admit that the game trying to make it something where he has to “remember what made you love her” is odd considering her actions, but what I described doesn’t sound like excusing her actions at all lmao

[@freemygrandma956]

Honestly if he had just told Phin he was SpiderMan when he first found out who she was half this story would have not happened

[@radrno7]

Not really. Sure, Miles could've not revealed it in the worst moment possible, but any point she would've been mad at him and gone after revenge the same way. That's her character flaw, she can't see past that.

[@freemygrandma956]

@@radrno7 she literally only fought him cause he lied that’s the whole premise of the story ppl keeping secrets from eachother

[@radrno7]

@@freemygrandma956 She literally keeps beating him up, saying he was the one that destroyed the bridge, which was her fault, and that got her kidnapped, that was Prowler's fault. And she also lied about the whole secret identity, she has no ground to stand on.

[@freemygrandma956]

@@radrno7 hmmm, we’ll hard to beat that logic haha I concede 🫱🏾‍🫲🏽

[@blacky8987]

are fking stupld? the same girl who send killer with super weapons to hurt rio morales?

[@garygray5040]

Bro casually dropped the hardest miles morales plot fix of all time

[@simonmann4922]

I just hate the liar claims she throws at miles. The one with him not actually wanting to join a gang is reasonable but the others not so much, it causes me to lose the sympathy I had for very easily and it really hurt her “self sacrifice” severely imo.

[@nestorsifuentesaguirre2722]

What if Goku Black and Phin met? I am you Mason but better in every way (snaps her neck)

[@ethanbediako2214]

Her death is a canon event

[@Negajoe]

The worst part of the new Sony Spider-man game will be the inevitable melancholic lamentation Miles will have towards Phin's death and how they're still trying to portray her in a sympathetic light. I hope this won't be the case but I can definitely see Miles having a flashback about how awesome Phin was and grieving over the homicidal gang leader/terrorist bomber who put his Mom in the hospital.

[@no.1spidey-fan182]

I remember breaking down how DUMB Phin's character was. I wrote basically an entire essay on this random playthrough😂. I cant remember exactly what I said but lets see what I remember Why not just use the Underground to expose Roxxon's true face? And work in the shadows? And when Roxxon falls she slithers in to reveal the truth to the public about how her brother was murdered. And takes control of the company while Simon gets hauled off to jail That's hiw I would've done it😂. Essentially make her an ACTUAL CRIME BOSS, who THINKS before they act. Instead of an Unhinged TERROR IST😭🤦‍♂️ Or give her her OWN company because she loterally INVENTED NANO TECHNOLOGY and thats HUUUGE Idky they act like thats not something worth praising, while brushing such a mind blowing invention under the carpet and she can battle Roxxon in court. Phin had sooo many options to not become a villain. Hell she couldve been a Vigilante that was screwing up Roxxon's transports. And probably enlisted the help of a bunch of friends or environmental freaks who agreed with her cause🤷‍♂️. This archetype suits her character WAAAAY more than the wannabe villain she wanted to be in the game. They could still have her and Miles' fight cause maybe she's more of a Vigilante and doesnt mind killing the Roxxon Soldiers so Miles steps in. Like Yuri is gonna do as Wraith in the sequel after what she did in the DLC ALL they had to do was make Roxxon MORE AGGRESSIVE amd give us a couple scenes of Phin saving lives. Maybe when Miles is trying to knock sense into Phin, their battle causes makes Roxxon Tower unstable so they make peace and save a couple people by redirecting the falling building into the water. Phin sneaks away and it leaves Miles not understanding their current relationship while creating a Black Cat like figure fo Miles. EASY PEASY😂. I swear I could write this stuff in my sleep💀 Insomniac chose what I've coined recently to "Sensation over SENSE". Meaning they went with SPECTACLE instead of a cohesive story because they needed an EXPLOSIVE final act...literally😂

[@-Nightingale]

When you said Yuri I was so confused, I thought you meant Yuri Lowenthal.

[@indedgames4359]

Its clear the miles Story was written becaus ...... ther relised miles orgin story isnt good enough . I thing as that it serves for miles.

[@Soulferno]

​@@indedgames4359They essentially made the story impossible for Miles not to turn out as the most logical person in the room. He needed more time to show the audience he could be a good Spiderman and he did. The issue was that it was the expense of a good story. I certainly enjoyed the game but that's because it was built off the back of a better game overall. Miles had a decent solo outing but the story and characters were just nowhere and everywhere all it once and I was just glad to finish it by the end

[@aerostrafe1075]

@@HeWhoDwells2014 Are you trying the "look not all stories are great" as defense for bad writing? Insomniac has written good stories so? Doesn't mean they can't write a bad one. You also can't head canon things to make up for bad writing points. You can't say Phin was in a bad mental state if the story itself is not presenting that. You can not argue "oh the reason none of her plans make any sense is because she is traumatized" if the game itself is telling you that her plan is all coming together. Thats fanfiction. Go write a fanfic. Leave your headcanon at the door when it comes to critiques.

[@kamirubidan2080]

I feel like the only thing they needed to do was highlight Miles naivety and Phin's wrecklessness more. Phin was full of shit about everything. She just wanted revenge and she wanted it in the most destructive way possible, and her plan was sloppy and not well thought out as a result. Miles meanwhile is clinging to this friendship that matters to him despite Phin not giving him the respect he gives her. It's all there, the game just gets lost in trying to make you feel for the relationship between the two. Having Miles stand up for himself after the liar scene while still saying he's going to save her because he's Spider-Man or something like that would have gone a long way too. Just really small fixes that use what's already there.

[@xiggles]

I agree, I don't think the whole thing is bad, but certain choices, or lack thereof make it just a bit weaker. I disagree with a lot of comments about Miles being stupid and how he should have dropped Phin asap, he's still a kid and it's clear he's hanging on so hard because he doesn't want to lose their friendship, and Phin takes advantage of that trust to get away with way more than Miles would have let her otherwise. He's blinded by his nostalgia for their childhood that he can't see who Phin has become, but the thing that kills it is that Phin was given an unreasonable amount of sympathy towards the end that she didn't earn at all. I think Miles would have been taught a better lesson if it turned out Phin _was_ actually the monster he didn't want to believe she was, or at least if she didn't do a total 180 at the end after being completely unreasonable up until that point. I think on top of this they could have made it more of a point to show Phin, either consciously or half-consciously, manipulating Miles throughout. It would have made Miles' actions towards her more understandable and more impactful once he realizes what's really been going on this whole time. Idk, I liked the game but I couldn't help having a few issues here and there, but I think what we got still has the pieces to be a better story.

[@JumpTossCatch]

​@@xiggles This is certainly a "took the words right out of my mouth" situation. Phin could have been a better written character if they didn't try to paint her in this sympathetic light; where her behavior was justified and understandable....which, find...if not for the fact that she was already an asshole before the Tinkerer stuff came into play.

[@maddenboseroy4074]

Your rewrite kind of sounds like Batman's relationship with the league of shadows. In any case, Rick going pure evil only to sacrifice himself in the end sounds like what Phin did; he's just quicker to realize that he turned his relationships toxic.

[@johnschwalb]

The worst part of it all was that you knew the story before getting past the quorter mark. You knew instantly she was the secret bad guy, you knew she was going to have a redemption and sacrifice herself at the end, you knew everyone would act like she was the best person ever and super sympathetic. You knew the story beats. Its was all so obvious that even though it was so bad it was infuriating to watch the story you knew was going to happen happen in such a poorly written way.

[@Omnipotentmonkey]

the funny thing is, you can have characters do FAR worse things than Phin and still have them be sympathetic if you play it right. weird comparison to make, but: Jinx from Arcane, she commits some pretty terrible acts of violence, but with both an internal justification that does make SOME sense, (basically the fact that she's predominantly killing those who can be genuinely justified as "enemy combatants" before she begins fighting), now there's some definitely reaching in place to get there, but that's where her psychosis comes in, it's an understandable reason for warped perception and bridges the gap. our other main characters, Vi and Caitlyn, respectively have a hefty degree of responsibility for Jinx's current state, and are a representative of that perpetually mistrusted faction of enemy combatants. so her mistrust/anger against them feels justified, like a solid base even before her psychosis induced paranoia exacerbates it. so when Vi is perpetually just apologising and attempting to appease Jinx, it feels right, her sense of guilt and responsibility makes sense, Jinx's actions make sense, and the two bridge well. we absolutely do NOT want Vi to take a much harder stance, at least not yet, because Jinx has become too sympathetic. Phin on the other hand, is intelligent, rational, (albeit angry), and ENTIRELY lucid. she isn't doing terrible things out of some psychosis warped perception of the world, she isn't limiting targets to armed enemy combatants, and the sense of guilt she's trying to thrust on to the main character in Miles, is ENTIRELY unearned, by the time she's realised her anger against him, she's done nearly everything negative he did to her, to him, PLUS EXTRAS as she's very rationally justifying terrible, terrible actions repeatedly. arming a domestic terrorist group with no end-goal, getting livid with Miles for stopping her from murdering someone in cold blood to the point where she nearly kills him, while the basis for her anger against Roxxon is solid, her justification of others she harmed on the path makes her nearly impossible to sympathise with.

[@Kap_NYC]

Phin was my biggest issue with the game to be honest. I get that she's Miles' friend (Ex-friend let's be real here.) but she pushes him away and deliberately tried to kill him and others on numerous occasions. She got mad at Miles for lying to her when she never told him that *SHE was in the Underground!* That makes ZERO sense!

[@deangelo3342]

you know what's even more crazy? This game is about Miles being his own spider-man, yet it contradicts itself by taking the main character and main antagonist dynamic being similar to the first game. Only that it was done poorly. It seems to be a common trend for Miles to get the same story as Peter, yet everyone wants to treat him as his own character. Stuff like this, makes it hard to like Miles.

[@indedgames4359]

Well tecnicly every story is told with Peter. So miles can only get his Version on These

[@deangelo3342]

@@indedgames4359 There are ways to tell stories that are for Miles purposes, something that Peter doesn't or haven't dealt with. Maybe its a social life aspects, maybe its more with him being an afro latino person, or maybe a villain that is brand new to Miles, there are many things you can tell a story that are tie to Miles and not to Peter

[@juniper1350]

@@indedgames4359 that’s not how that works

[@dylansharp8471]

Bullshit.

[@no.1spidey-fan182]

​@@deangelo3342facts. They made Miles even more like Peter in this universe by taking away that he wasn't as smart as Peter and had to rely on others and also that he didnt want his powers at the start Miles is the inverse of Peter but they never really dove deep into that to make him his own character truly. So it only remains at a couple superficial differences with ONE main difference being he didnt want powers

[@no.1spidey-fan182]

Really enjoy your rewrite. Makes a lot of sense. Although I thought Rick was based on that Robot Tinkerer made and claimed was his brother, who made tech for heroes but was a red herring to the heroes, so he could learn the heroes weaknesses😂

[@daverobson3084]

In the list of Finn's amazing qualifications, they missed that she can apparently slam dunk on a basketball court. A very impressive feat for a teen who stands merely 5' 7" tall. Even more so for a teen aged girl who seems to spend most of her time on a computer, or in a electronics lab, and not on a basketball court. Her intellectual and physical feats make her at the top of her fields both in engineering and sports. She's a Stark level intellect, and a Natasha Romanov level athlete , all in one. At the age of 18.

[@yungmuney5903]

Oh god how dare fictional women be impressive 😮

[@Acetvn-kg6ty]

​@@yungmuney5903aww poor femcel projecting.

[@GameDenColor]

Next up, Who did Arkham Batman love?: kzbin.info/www/bejne/rpOUlHutesSZotE

[@Sagegabs]

I like your version of Miles Morales story. I also disliked the Tinkerer cuz the fact that even though she is the bad guy, she gets offended because Miles didn't tell her about him being the new Spider-Man... I also disliked Miles in the end because he lets himself get f*cked up by her so many times... Anyway, great video man. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

[@rodrigovillegas2263]

I really like your rewrite of the story. Unfortunately the industry at large seems to have a hard on for “sympathetic villains” even though some people really suck at writing them. As the comment above me mentioned with the flag smashers.

[@MrMelonsz]

⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠@@HeWhoDwells2014Did you like your own comments? That’s sad. 😂 Also, you sound insane, and none of your points help support what you’re saying in any way! You literally just stated that she was sent into a fit of uncontrollable rage and psychopathy. We agree! Our concern is how the game tries to make us sympathise with her (a literal murderous monster) as she constantly blames disasters, *she is causing,* on Miles and Spider-Man when she is literally murdering people left and right to get what she wants. On top of all of that, what she wants (her “plan”) is entirely stupid. It’s a dangerous and stupid plan that would undoubtedly fail and wouldn’t even benefit her political side in the matter. Miles even constantly tells her exactly how her plan is going to fail and instead of listening SHE JUST TRIES TO MURDER HIM! Also, you mocking Game Adam was cringe because your acting like they’re mad about the game not being made the way they want it to. That’s not the case at all! They’re annoyed at the terrible character writing of The Stinkerer, and just chose to give fair and much needed criticism. They never claim or get angry that their hypothetical story for the game should’ve or didn’t happen, they simply propose a way to fix the glaring issues with the current story, in a creative and smart way. I think you’re the goofiest goofball on KZbin and you’re definitely too young to be commenting and making fun of others whilst you actively embarrass yourself. Idk, just go to school or smthn, stop being silly here.

[@aziak198]

​@sagegabs4946

[@samwilliams7572]

The thing that always bugged me the most about this game was Krieger’s plan. He killed her brother to cover up the fact that Newform poisoned people so he could continue to put out the reactor. But like, if he puts out the reactor and it poisons people, then that would cost him infinitely more than just delaying it to make it safe. It’s not like he’s actively evil and wanting to poison people, he’s just apathetic about the lives of others and wants to make money, but he’s acting out a plan that will actively cost him money and maybe even his company, it doesn’t make sense.

[@PizzaTimeGuy]

That's the reason why I don't like insomniac's version of MJ. She has the same character problems as Finn. What they have in common is that they are both trying to be the smart ass, and they are both gaslighting their partners into believing that they are wrong. Like when MJ is going to the train station where there is a showcase of Oscorp's inventions. And MJ knows that the Demons are coming to the train station. Keep in mind that this level in the game happened after the explosion of Mayer Osborn speech. So, MJ knows what Lee and the Demons are capable of, and she had been it through herself. + she is a reporter, so she knows who they are through Peter, sources, she knows how many have died, or the destruction that took place. With all of that, what does she do? Well, she din't call Peter because she and Peter had an argument, bohoo! She didn't even warn the authorities about this. That's what she said in the game: Standish said the Demons are looking for *something* at GCT... but what could they possibly need here? Should probably call Peter and let him know what I’m doing. Actually, scratch that. He’d probably just tell me to go home and chain myself to my laptop. I’ll just check things out quick and let him know what I find. Like, what the hell! Okay, you found the thing that you need, so then what? Are you just gonna leave when you find what you need? What about the other people in the train station? The Demons are not known to be sneaky or stealthy. THEY ARE FREAKING TERRORISTS!!!🤦 What. a. bitch!

[@no.1spidey-fan182]

FACTS FACTS FACTS. The fact that some people defend that MJ is MINDBLOWING to me. Worse adaptation of MJ. I'd take the Raimi movie version anyday cause at least she isnt ENDANGERING LIVES cause she "wants to be the hero". MJ literally has that hero syndrome, I can't remember what they call it exactly. But its essentially someone who creates problems so they can fix them to feel good about themselves

[@no.1spidey-fan182]

Insomniac SUCKS at writing good female characters. All of them outside of Yuri and Aunt May are just crappy people all around. But even Yuri is unnecessarily Antagonistic towards Peter on occassion

[@PizzaTimeGuy]

@No.1 Spidey-Fan I don't get it either why people would defend insomniac's version of MJ . LoL When I played the game for the first time, I din't really notice that about MJ, but when I finished the game for the first time, and MJ and Peter kissed together at the end, I cringed and it felt as if it was unearned, but I couldn't put my vinger on it. But after many playthroughs, I finally knew what the problem was. And that point that I made was one of them. And, idk if you know S.K, but he had the same mindset in his video as i did, and I'm glad that I'm not the only one who felt annoyed about it. So yhea......

[@no.1spidey-fan182]

@@PizzaTimeGuy Yh I saw the SK vid. People prop Spiderman ps4 up but the character writing is REALLY BAD when it comes to MJ and Peter. Everyone else is pretty much well written enough

[@srstriker6420]

@@PizzaTimeGuy don’t forget the Raimi version

[@eddiediaz5518]

I’m glad I’m not the only one who thought she would’ve made a great love interest. Especially with the dinner scene, only for it to be shown that they thought of each other as siblings which was weird tbh. If this was the route they’d gone, I think she could’ve played a role in Spider-Man 2 by helping Peter and Miles with the bell sound upgrade for the symbiotes (she is the Tinkerer after all) plus giving her side missions with Miles that could’ve involved them finding Underground tech and destroying it, these side missions could replace the Hailey side mission that I see people really don’t like, and could further develop Miles and Phin’s relationship. Another cool thing would be if SHE makes Miles’ new suit (swap the colors, make it a full mask, scrap the shoes) , maybe have it where she starts working on it early in the story when Miles gets his new power and maybe he mentions it’s unstable, and she makes the new suit with the intention of it stabilizing his power plus making it more durable against the symbiotes, that way the new suit has more significance and doesn’t come out of nowhere

[@phantomx6807]

I feel like the only person that really did damage to Miles in this game was the Prowler. like I know the characters were not written well. but prowler seemed a little bit better that the others. aside from rhino who actually did an amazing job at being a threat before dying to Phin. rpwoler had more potential in this game and he only takes a fraction of it. the other villians are just jokes at this point.

[@tusharg8452]

Yup. His motivations, although clunkily exposed, make way more sense.

[@KamKing19]

Iron had a saying about Azula that relates to Phin: “She’s crazy and she needs to go down”. Taking her out and making her straight up evil makes the most sense.

[@craigpeoples9883]

The worst part is Azula is more sympathetic than Phin and she killed Aang once and was willing to let Zuko die in the boiling rock

[@TRTMN-vs3ew]

Not a fan of this new Rick getting redeemed. Feel like his desire for power should be his ultimate downfall. Especially after everything he willingly did for his own gain. Let's say after Miles absorbs the Nuform Energy Phin tries to help him. Rick tries to take the energy by force even though doing so would kill Miles which causes Phin to realize just how far he has gone. She messes up his containment suit as Miles delivers a Nuform Empowered Venom Punch. With his containment suit now malfunctioning, Rick has a meltdown and explodes, the power he had hurt so many people to gain being his ultimate downfall.

[@pogggaming4470]

Might as well have Phin also die

[@puffpuffpassmako]

One more gripe I have with the game is Simon Krieger. For technically being the main antagonist, he has LITTLE screen time. I know he's a typical corporate businessman villain, but they could have done more with him. The intro cutscene with him made him seem like he'd be more prominent. In comics he's a major driving force for Tony Stark, as he's responsible for Howard Stark's plane crash. Imo, if the game was made just a bit longer, I'd fit in a confrontation with Simon Krieger as a boss fight. I'd make him wear a prototype version of the Spider Slayer armor. Remember, this is insomniac's universe that has a complete original take on many characters. Making Simon Krieger the Spider Slayer is a change most Spidey fans wouldn't mind

[@espurrseyes42]

How'd they go from Otto Octavious/Doctor Octopus, a man who you can feel sympathetic towards due to the crap he was going through and STILL feel that way about him after he becomes a vengeance-fueled psycho, to Finn/Tinkerer, a girl who starts losing sympathy points the more and more you get to know her? Heck, even Martin Lee/Mr. Negative didn't fall off that hard. He was still a solid villain from beginning to end.

[@TheJadedJames]

Otto and Mr Negative wanted straight up revenge. Phin’s had the far more tame endgame to destroy the Roxxon building so the city wouldn’t get poisoned by Nuform … the entire final conflict between Phin & Miles hinges on a misunderstanding & that is basically the worst way you can write a conflict.

[@espurrseyes42]

@@TheJadedJames Otto and Li had sympathetic backstories, but are still clearly painted as the bad guys. They're written in a way where you can feel sorry for what happened to them, but still see that they're in the wrong and need to be stopped. And then you have Phin here running a gang that's supposed to be the good guys, or at least not as bad as Roxxon. Yet you have them attacking an Anti-Roxxon rally headed by Miles' mom, someone Phin is close with, and her having her goons handle Nuform knowing that shit's dangerous and ignoring their complaints that its making them sick. And of course you have the outburst over Rhino and her complaining about Miles lying to her when, again, she under her alias as the Tinkerer almost got his mom hurt/killed in her little distraction attack on her rally against the same company she hates. She is very much in the wrong in certain areas, yet the game tries so hard to tell you otherwise. That doesn't make her look sympathetic like how Otto and Li were handled. It makes her look like a hypocrite and an overall complete piece of shit, even though she's not causing nearly as much harm as them.

[@Adamairball]

This version of the game sounds a lot better.

[@Yirmatang]

I recently beat the game for the first time and am happy to see I’m not alone in these thoughts! Given Miles lost his father in the previous game, they had to perfect set-up to have Miles & Phin connect through their losses. But then also lean into both characters, leading double lives. Let Phin convince Miles to help her through conspiracy stuff while letting her “Tinkerer” persona clash with Spider-Man (I also think we / Miles learn that she is the Tinkerer way too early). After a bit of this, then we can have a dramatic reveal of her actually being the Tinkerer. It’s the flag smashers all over again. They wanted us to sympathize with a character who had justified causes, but then they have them just do the most terrible things; completely negating any and all sympathy we may have had. When the game ended with her death, I was left wondering “did they really expect us to be saddened by this”? Plus, we already had the “someone I trust turned evil and I must defeat them” done at least TWICE in the first game (Li & Octavius)…

[@Excellent664]

All she wanted was to take revenge on Krieger but she took it too far

[@Money_maker12]

I still liked the game it was great now i my hyped up for spider man 2 to play as both spider man

[@AlexCR14]

Excellent video! Agree on all points. It’s very telling that the devs didn’t put in a QTE when Miles saves her from falling after their big showdown. I would have definitely let her hit the pavement if given the choice.

[@VerticlSpoon]

Insomniac should honestly never make up a character again, they clearly can't do it well lol

[@spaghettisauce1104]

​@@VerticlSpoonthe tinkerer isn't made up. It is a comic book villain from the spiderman universe. Although they did race swap and gender swap him. But insomniacs characters and villains are their own takes even if they're good or bad

[@nothingwrong2293]

@@spaghettisauce1104 They changed him so much that phin should've been a completely new character

[@radrno7]

I've got a controversial take: I think the plots and the characters in both Spider-Man games are pretty idiotic. I'm sorry, but I really didn't find the writing that good. In the first one: - Kingpin is there just to get taken down, there's no buildup, just 8 years shoved into one scene. - MJ is as good as a dry wall over how forced she is to make it seem like she needs to be in the game (she's not). - Mr. Negative was cool, but his origin made no sense, why would someone accept to let some company make an experiment on their child and how the hell would negative powers cure Harry? - Sinister Six was ok, could've been better, but I'd say that was mostly because of Doc Ock, which I think could've had a better villain arc as the whole Devil's Breath just made it seem like he was even more of a hypocrite than Norman, I mean he was directly responsible for a pandemic that should've never happened, that's way worse. In the second one: - Peter just leaves Miles on his own, right after Miles made a mistake that caused Rhino to escape and cause all that destruction. - Tinkerer simply makes up one of the most advanced types of technology by herself, without an expensive lab or anything. - Tinkerer has all this tech, money and people, yet all she does is use it to steal and attack innocents. - Tinkerer keeps making up excuses to blame others for her own mistakes, and Miles keeps giving her even more excuses. - Tinkerer, as well as every human with tech in these games, manages to be even faster and stronger than the characters with actual superpowers. I hope Insomniac learned with these past mistakes and really brought top tier writing in 'Spider-Man 2'.

[@BatMane95]

Knowing Insomniac from Ratchet and Clank, that's probably unlikely.

[@kaddindefiant]

You’d have to know even a bit about Spider-Man for some of those gripes you had. Kingpin for example. He’s an iconic villain but if you don’t know anything about the fights he had with Spider-Man and so on you won’t understand .

[@radrno7]

@@kaddindefiant I know about Kingpin and his history, I've been a fan of Spidey for decades, but that's not what matters. You can't expect everyone to know this and that's the problem. The story needs to stand on its own so if it tells us that 8 years have passed and that it's an important information, then it needs to at least show us that so we can get why that's so important, because without that it becomes just an average day for Spidey and those 8 years actually didn't matter at all, which is the impression left now everytime someone plays this part of the game. They could've just put a little cutscene sequence at the start showing Spider-Man going after Kingpin during those 8 years, so we'd see why it took so long to take him down.

[@michaelmurray8134]

I like your version a lot better because as you said it makes more sense. Another thing that Phin could have did and Miles could have done Is convinced her to destroy that last Nuform That she took from the bridge making it so that Roxxon couldn't use it anymore because the guy that knew how to make it was dead. Or better yet if Miles still had the phone video of Rick and Phin in the reactor they could have gave it to Miles's mother and she could have used her connections to expose Simon for not only possessing a toxic substance but for the murder of Rick.

[@leomullen6214]

Your version of the game is officially canon in my head

[@bluestreaksthehedgehog.]

Same

[@julio.dealmeidabranconeto5831]

I think the game would've been better if the Prowler was the main villain. Well, kind of. Simon Krieger would still ne the main villain, but Prowler would be his main enforcer (instead of Rhino), serving as the main emotional thorugh line and the final boss fight.

[@paytonthegoof]

I honestly believe Insomniac didn’t want to spend too much time on the story for this game. The story is not bad, but it’s not great, definitely has a lot more potential like you pointed out. This is probably because they wanted to shift full focus onto Spider-Man 2, having this game as an appetizer before the full meal while we wait. I have a lot of hope in Insomniac, they haven’t shown us any reason for me not to, Spider-Man 2 is going to be Spectacular!

[@Test_Tube_Boi]

I loved this rewrite so much but I feel like phin still dying the same way she did in the game would be better, since with the new context, Rick watching the death of his younger sister due to HIS own actions would be the sobering moment that he needs. I think him maybe turning himself in after or willingly going with Spiderman to face his punishment would make sense since Rick still has good in him and can finally see the pipeline he took to get to where he is now. As for Phin, since you mentioned in the story she's constantly struggling with the choice between what she wants and what Rick wants, I think her final moments being a choice she made herself, finally breaking free of rick's influence would beautifully round out that character arc. More importantly, it would develop Miles' character really well since it would truly be one of those "torture your spiderman" moments that define him as a legitimate spiderman. Also because I think a third vigilante is pretty redundant since NY already has two Spider-Man

[@SuperNASCARrocks]

Phin really was one of the most hated characters in the game. I think her dying in the end was actually warranted.

[@cbrocafe]

I like everything except I think Ricks time should just run out and Phin still sacrifices herself. This leaves Miles with more tragic loss on his plate to work through. The whole Spider-Man great power stuff .

[@Fuzzycatfur]

Honestly. They really tried to manipulate how you felt about her but at the end I was just like "Oh, that psychopath is dead now. Good."

[@hustle_simmons]

Or hear me out. The game's showing how someone consumed with revenge makes choices that are incredibly selfish that harms others. She ignores Miles trying to get through to her because she's consumed by grief and revenge. Grief and trauma response isn't logical. She see's Rio's plan as slow working, flawed and if anything ineffective because it's dependent on votes, approvals and a bunch of other bureaucratic stuff that often gets lost, ignored or straight up blocked. So she sees her way of doing things as the end all be all. "Wanna stop Roxxon? tear everything down that they made physically." I don't think she's suppose to be seen as sympathetic. You're suppose to sympathize with Miles. Trying to stop your friend who's lost who they were for revenge.

[@atomic747]

Boy if only that was true. Because they try to have you sympathize with her aswell and she never gets called out for her bs. People jsut go boo hoo poor girl and how amazing she is for taking that blast for miles at the end of the game.

[@withertempestprime8718]

It would make sense if she hated the city and wanted to destroy it on that "all this city does is take... its time for me to do the taking" type beat. And not only have just her brother die make the story thst over the years she started to loose friends and family due to crime. Make her brother's death the final breaking point. Also make her final form a big transforming mech suit for a cherry on top

[@chelmsford-ut6kn]

I felt like the side missions made Harlem feel more fleshed out than just five randos. But I can see why it wasn't enough for others, there have definitely been games with a more lively cast.

[@Xehanort10]

Phin's whole "You lied to me about wanting to join The Underground and hid that you're Spider-Man so I'm just gonna assume you telling me destroying the Nuform reactor will destroy Harlem is a lie to talk me out of it" thing was annoying.

[@liamrichardson6830]

Phin needed to be slapped by Rocket. "Ohh boo hoo-hoo, my brother is dead. Everybody's got dead people, it's no excuse to get everybody else dead along the way."

[@aerostrafe1075]

I find it hard to believe that the writers who made me feel pain at having to stop Otto then went on to write Phin. No way its the same writers.

[@thisbubblygoodness7611]

it wasn't, Miles' game was made by a different smaller team in Insomniac

[@Hypershadic23]

OH MY GOD SOMEBODY FINALLY PUT IT INTO WORDS

[@Hypershadic23]

All jokes aside, I find it fucking insane how Phin's course of action was "Let me lead a known criminal organization to commit acts of terrorism then claim to be a good guy" in a world where mother fucking SPIDER-MAN exists. Like Phin is supposedly some kinda child genius prodigy, and she couldn't have figured out a way to contact SPIDER-MAN and explain everything so that he might be able to help her avenge her brother and stop Roxxon?

[@magea2926]

The worst part about phin I think is how in all the cutsceen she wreck Miles, but the moment you play you just slap the bioelectricity on her and she just die.

[@773superprguy]

I just finished playing it and I honestly was shocked how unsatisfied i was with this. I enjoyed the game play combat and just the good vibes, but the story 😂. You mean this girl ( Miles age) she's a scientist, leads an anarchist underground group, recruiter , planner, strategist, has hand to hand combat experience, who invented this high tech gear, plus is the key to everything.. She keeps her secret identity that No one suspects anything

[@shinigami2link]

The Phin-Rick relationship you're setting up sounds like if Peter had joined Octavius in order to attack Norman. Which does give us an interesting parallel to the first game.

[@alexhollon7526]

Phin honestly could have been a better character if she was just treated like a straight villain, with a sympathetic backstory that's just explaining their reasoning rather than justifying their actions. That's how Doc Ock and Mr. Negative were shown in the first game. Villains who are evil, but there's reasons that do at least explain their actions.

[@TheJadedJames]

This is an overarching problem I have with almost every Insomniac Spider-Man villain. The game will try to give them a sympathetic motivation or it will excuse their behavior as being some form of delirium or mind control. In Batman Begins, the villains are bad people who want to destroy Gotham for ideological reasons that are coherently stated to the audience but we aren’t meant to agree with, so we can root for Batman to stop them & go about helping people the right way. SSMM wants Phin to be the final boss of a video game but not someone we should think of as objectively bad so the climax has to hinge on an infuriating misunderstanding between the two characters & that is just the most frustrating form of writing conflicts. But I also wasn’t thrilled by how Doc Ock wasn’t just allowed to be a bad guy either. Spider-Verse is also doing the villains better. The Spot wants revenge on Miles for straightforward reasons, Miguel isn’t “evil” but it is straightforward to understand why he’s opposing Miles & being a jerk about it

[@mito8756]

If Electro wasn’t already in the universe, I would say this would make a damn good introduction for Rick to be Electro

[@Spider_Variant96]

Phin: Roxonn killed my brother Miles! I lead the Underground to destroy them! And whats worse is that you lied to me! Miles: Okay counter point. You're a terrorist. Phin: That makes it okay to punch me?! Miles: Yes.

[@eeveegaming4798]

She's like the perfect Gen Z villian, young, stupid, brash: just wants to do something.

[@thedarklightskin]

That’s fair. But it’s not even an insult. It just plays on the fact that she’s a teenage girl and people tend to forget that when they’re analyzing her motives and character.

[@donb7519]

@@thedarklightskin i mean its not entirely hard to forget when the mocaps based on an adult and she does 0 normal teen things

[@thedarklightskin]

@@donb7519 the mocap has nothing to do with it at all. And she’s only in the story for such a little bit of time that we don’t see her do normal things since she’s obsessed.

[@nestorsifuentesaguirre2722]

Also this is imo what happens if tributing Zamasu/Goku Black was executed horribly if the idea was ever great

[@thedarklightskin]

@@nestorsifuentesaguirre2722 huh

[@femboyjiren1744]

I low-key had the same problem I had with the MJ sections. Everything would've been easier if Peter was there. I get that's kinda the point but it was frustrating when Miles got his ass kicked by Phin for like the 47th time.

[@dunkguy2260]

Someone finally saying what has been on my mind and wishing I could talk about especially if I had a platform. This video is great and I'm glad someone talked about how terrible phin is, Though i do disagree with Tinkerer's design being bad but regardless definitely liking and subbing.

[@harsani6810]

Istg, idk what's happening with movie/games/tv shows always doing the same "strong" female character, absolute Marie sues, always being mean, mixed or black and always end up being the most hated character by the fans.

[@thedarklightskin]

The majority of people hating just do it simply because they want to be negative and it’s usually some people who think they can analyze every point of the character but just miss it completely

[@harsani6810]

@@thedarklightskin yeah sure buddy

[@thedarklightskin]

@@harsani6810 you say that, but you know I’m not even wrong. Look at this video, it’s a prime example of someone analyzing something yet completely missing the point of the character. And then we have another person being you simply just hating the character because she’s black.💀

[@harsani6810]

@@thedarklightskin you're lightskin, you're offended by it, it's okey buddy, go back canceling whities and defending the little mermaid

[@JimmyDThing]

Phin took the cowards way out so she could avoid any scrutiny or punishment. That's all she did.

[@ZackTheThunderking]

the only good thing about phin is that she dies

[@spiderxparker_]

Yes

[@ilikethefedorahat3461]

That was dark

[@captainmarvelwilson508]

God. I have no idea why people just defend characters like this just because they were “blinded by rage”. Even anyone who is blinded by rage can consider more rational ways to do what they do. Phin should be smarter than this.

[@nrnrn999]

Honestly, I disagree with you on this one. Not about how awful Phin is but about having her serve as a puppet for Rick. It plays into the old trope of women being inherently good people who need an outside influence to be bad. I'd personally prefer full psycho Phin just without the shoe-horned in redemption. I'm also not a fan of Phin being a love interest for Miles. We really don't need 'worse Catwoman' in here. Also, an older mentor figure to Miles who leads a secret double life as a criminal? If only there was a certain uncle who could fill a role like that...

[@FirestoneAnimation]

Man this rewrite could actually work. Although i ship Hailey (the mute girl you help during the FNSM app missions) more than with Phin, thud whole rewrite works so well.

[@TheWilku22]

She was pretty cool, itd be better

[@eeelorde9962]

Yea i liked her too !

[@JAYDOG1337A]

And the thing about Miles' mum being injured being Spider-Man's fault... Spider-Man shows up a few seconds AFTER she is injured trying to escape the thugs, so even if Spider-Man didn't show up at all Rio still would've been injured.

[@featherguardian6023]

Honestly Phin is truly the Worst Part of this Game, we could have exploded that both Miles and Phin are not Different People, I wish that both the Thinker was simply Evil and that Rick was the Mastermind all along, it would’ve been a Better Direction for Miles’ Journey.

[@Thegrimreaper4lyfe]

The hate I had for Phin in this game is equal to the hate I have for Amber in Invincible

[@PlatformChef]

Well I like Spider-Man: Miles Morales as a whole, The Tinker (Phin) was my least favorite character. I get she is upset about the loss of her brother, but she is not doing anything better by becoming the villain. She worked with a Terrorist organization and got multiple people hurt just to take down one man. And her plan was completely stupid (blowing up a building, without thinking about the collateral damage around the explosion). Then she asked Spider-Man to look the other way while she tries to commit an act of terrorism (I was like “Lady, I’m a superhero! Do you really think I would just let you commit an act of terrorism? If you do, your an idiot”). Although, I’m willing to give Insomniac some slack for the short amount of time they had to develop this game, but only some.

[@thedarklightskin]

She just wants to hurt someone without thinking it through. Honestly, it’s expected of a teenager who can’t rationally think things out even if she is a genius. Just the character who wants to ruin the people that won’t take responsibility for her life being ruined.

[@TheGamer-sb3ry]

​​​@@thedarklightskindude even 7 years old would know what's wrong and right

[@thedarklightskin]

@@TheGamer-sb3ry we can debate about that back-and-forth but at the end of the day, we both know she’s not exactly mentally mature, like people want to make her character be so she could take responsibility for her actions completely. A whole 15 year old girl, who wants vengeance because she lost someone close and was alone.

[@TheGamer-sb3ry]

@@thedarklightskin why defend her she is evil

[@TheGamer-sb3ry]

@@thedarklightskin you know there were a lot of people in her gang none told her how stupid her plan is

[@M4RV3]

She is just a 'strong female character(anti hero) who could do no wrong is perfect and is a misunderstood hero who treats people like shit just because but in the end we must love her.

[@yungmuney5903]

Why do i get the feeling that you have a huge bias against fictional women?

[@M4RV3]

@yung muney that's just a feeling you have. I can't do anything about it 🤷‍♂️

[@VerticlSpoon]

​@@yungmuney5903nah insomniac seems to love making there female characters rude people we're supposed to like. Mj and sable by the end for example. Ik mj apologises, but then in the black cat dlc she goes back into being a bitch to Peter. Super unlikable, sable is just such a mid version of her from the comics. Not bad, just mid

[@spaghettisauce1104]

​@@VerticlSpoonthat's the new trope in media. Make the female characters extremely unlikable.

[@VerticlSpoon]

@@spaghettisauce1104 yeh it's so bizarre. Hopefully lois lane... I mean mj is better in the next game. Like way less of a smartass bitch, mainly just getting spiderman 2 for gameplay, but still.

[@sethilgenfritz7730]

When you were talking about Rick becoming an original villain for the game, his power set/origin you gave him really reminded me of Radioactive Man. I think it could’ve been a cool spin on a comic character instead of a creating new one. On top of that, him being Radioactive Man could’ve led to some interesting boss-fight mechanics (i.e. taking damage when you’re close to him, or having to web him to “contain” the radiation to get in close to damage him). Great video!

[@raven3067]

Game Den: “I feel like a science accident energy man can fit into Spider-Man's rogues gallary.” Electro: “Am I a joke to you!”

[@budbundy1552]

How can Miles easily handle hordes of hardened criminals using the same tech. But Phin can easily handle him.

[@HotFootBunny]

Hers is most likely more upgraded than her goons? We seen this with iron man, he has suits weaker and stronger than other suits

[@budbundy1552]

@@HotFootBunny yeah that could be it. Maybe she saved the best toys for herself. I thought maybe he was going easy on her or something.

[@Joecbg100]

I would keep the design of Tinkerer but use the idea of her using Rick's old associates and Rick maybe being alive or corrupted, and Phin does die with the end as Rick goes boom too.

[@tjcthulhu]

your rewrite would’ve been so much better. it’s almost like that’s what they had in plan at the start and then changed it

[@GmanZer0]

Miles: "You committed terrorist attacks that got alot of people hurt, even killed." Phin: "you lied, so that's way worse." She as insufferable as amber from invincible. They're basically the same character.

[@tuckerharpe1381]

Man that is a good comparison. Idk who I disliked more

[@oneida3523]

First time seeing your channel but great video I gotta say keep videos up like this and people will tune in. You have a way with critiquing as well as the alternative story you gave.m, very much would have preferred your story

[@mifu1330]

I’m so glad someone called out how annoying phin was I couldn’t side with her even though her motives are understandable in my opinion but she’s so reckless and let’s her emotions get in the way of a more logic approach 😭

[@cajozack]

You know she was never truly redeemed even though miles did. Even the captions during her last lines refer to her as tinkerer instead of phin

[@SaintSavageProd]

I thought I was alone. I just recently replayed this game a couple weeks ago and was getting angry at the terrible characterization of Miles, his lack of Spider sense when Phin was attacking him. 99% of her attacks never set off his spider sense. She spent the whole game gaslighting him and blaming him and he never once defended himself or call her out. That’s not good character that’s a simp. Idk about you but regardless of who you are when you’re friend is doing something you know is not only morally and legally wrong but ethically wrong and you’re not calling them out in a way you know will get through to them that’s stupid. Miles should’ve realized after getting beat more than once she wasn’t gonna listen and he get through to her in more aggressive manner, not with soft talk and begging. This game gained its positivity from its 2018 predecessor and unfortunately unlike that game which was fantastic aside from some small nitpicks, this game is lackluster with a rough story and terrible characters

[@VerticlSpoon]

Facts miles is so shit tbh. Never gonna touch it ever again after spiderman 2 releases. Mile's cast and even himself as a character is so boring. Like seriously, so bad.