Games that are Locked Behind Knowledge

[@PaddeeBA]

Ngl I clicked on the video because I thought the thumbnail said „there are monkeys“, but the video still kept me engaged, even when I realized that there weren't going to be any monkeys

[@CosmicHours]

The best kind of unintentional clickbait

[@bakacdaz]

Half hour video about the games with monkey would be hilarious though lol.

[@rainy8113]

3:23

[@PaddeeBA]

@@rainy8113 The possibility of more more monkeys is what kept me engaged Nah but yeah, coulda worded my comment better

[@Kazooples]

Same 😭

[@leopallas5751]

I laughed when you described the tutorial of Outer Wilds so well, knowing that you completely ignored it in your first playthrough 😂

[@WackoMcGoose]

You're not _truly_ an Outer Wilds explorer until you've forgotten to put your suit on before exiting the ship (the lockout timer on the door is _exactly_ long enough to ensure you can't get back in before you suffocate). Even NerdCubed, who landed perfectly on Hollow's Lantern first try, ended his loop not in lava, but in lack of air...

[@jacobmartin7434]

I jusy ignored that part of the video because I really want to go fresh into that gane

[@armandostockvideos8386]

I didn't ignore it but I kept crashing my ship anyways.

[@jassykat]

not me, I spent an entire hour before jumping into my ship.

[@winglessdraco4865]

@@WackoMcGoose Ah a fellow NerdCubed fan.

[@FireheadLazzo]

7:30 As a member of the Outer Wilds Cult of Esoteric Knowledge, I was really worried you were about to divulge the first big mystery. But you didn't. Thank you.

[@griqs]

Honestly he was kinda going in and I straight skipped it lol

[@hybridanimus6412]

You mentioned three of my favorite games! Rain World, Outer Wilds, and Animal Well. If I could go back to the confusion, wonder, and frustration I felt on my first play through of Rain World, I would. And the ending of Outer Wilds made me cry, it was so sad and beautiful and hopeful all at the same time. Animal well is purely vibes.

[@Sir_Steven]

The first game that came to my mind upon reading the title is Noita. Noita is a 2D roguelike where every pixel in the world is simulated. The game begins with you waking up in front of a cave entrance and there are some rocks that show you the basic controls. That's all the help the game gives you. At first it looks like your goal is to go down through all the levels until you reach the bottom, but if you decide to explore outside of the intended path, you quickly realize there is SO much more to the world then what first meets the eye. The game is all about exploration, experimentation and gathering knowledge. There's basically no meta progression, as everything can be obtained on your very first run if you know where to go and what to do. You don't become stronger because you played a lot and unlocked a bunch of stuff. You become stronger because you learned the world's secrets and intricacies. You understand spells and how to build powerful wands. You know the strenghts and weaknesses of the enemies you encounter. Once you know enough about the game, it goes from an extremely challenging roguelike to a wizard sandbox. In my opinion Noita is the textbook example of "Games that are Locked Behind Knowledge".

[@Cyberian_Khatru]

I love how everytime I think I've know the limits of Noita, I discover a new lens to see the world through. Like, there's a case to be made for being able to beat a 33 orb boss without ever stepping into a holy mountain. You can play the game as a base builder, pixel art included. You can make all types of farms, you can make freakin fish engines. I am now convinced the limits of noita far surpass those of minecraft, but it's just not handholdy and a bit too unforgiving to break into mass appeal.

[@niyo919]

But the thumbnail says there are no keys, and Noita has green keys. Checkmate athiests.

[@Random-oy7vk]

Im going to search it

[@theresnothinghere1745]

I would argue Noita is fundementally different. Noita isn't built for a single player to explore and learn the world through natural exploration, not in the same vein that Outer wilds and Animal well (at least at the beggining) are. Noita is built for a community to do so. This is evident from how unlike Outerwilds and Animal well which frequently use level design to hint at mechanics, Noita doesn't infact many of Noita's secrets are so hidden you won't expect the average player to find them. That's because they aren't for the average player to find but for one of many players to do so and let the word of mouth spread through a community. Take for example the means to create Lively Concoction, there isn't a means to discover this at all except by trial and error. Something that could very well not happen in a noticable manner to lone player at all. Personally that's why I ended up disliking Noita and the latter end of Animal well compared to the other games. Even if I had searched out the community when I found them to get involved with the community scale puzzles, most of them had already been solved (though Noita still has a few ongoing ones) and I've missed out on the experience by the time I bought the game.

[@xcorr77]

Sometimes Noita is locked behind a hiisi that grabbed a random nuke wand

[@fist_lorderino]

Rain World have a hidden knowledge that a lot of people miss entirely when playing it for the first time. "The movement system" is just that insane, it's just like that one Hollow Knight exemple to climb the ledge. It unlock new ways to see and interact with the environement and creatures.

[@oDiablo]

You need to see my face when I discovered I can throw a bar below me to increase height

[@scarletandciara]

Me and a friend were playing rainworld at some point, and got, . . . Kinda lost- And ended up in SUBTERRANEAN Before we ever got to Moon or Pebbles, that was A terrifying realization-

[@Javifaa]

I think it's easier to list stuff that isn't hidden knowledge in that game. Besides the most basic shit, the tutorial tells you almost nothing, you need to experiment on your own.

[@Harbin_07]

​@@JavifaaThat is the point of knoaledge based games

[@Javifaa]

@@Harbin_07 No shit Sherlock. I was pointing out the movement tech of the game is just on par with everything else. And in case you didn't know, that shit is insane. In fact, more knowledge based games should include hidden movement tech, it just fits the kind of game they are.

[@najpotenicewolf934]

I feel like Tunic may perfectly capture the feeling from my childhood of playing games in language you don't know. I remember playing Pokemon Firered in english (there was no official Polish translation available) and struggling...a lot. But it was still fun and exciting to actually figure out a mechanic without clear instructions.

[@princesssoybean]

Lmao I did that with animal crossing. I would annoy my parents by asking to translate everything X3

[@kaporal890]

That's because your cat is an NPC! mine is a main protag, he have multiple line of dialogue. ha have a meow that say "gimme food", another that say "gimme food IMMEDIATELY !" , another that ask for me to open the window and another that say "Yes ,i'm actually standing on your keyboard".

[@catalystyt6687]

i love that you mentioned tunic its actually so good

[@CosmicHours]

I was extremely happy the game manages to surprise you with the manual in both the first hour and the 10th hour, but to keep it as spoiler free as possible I didn't want to mention any specifics

[@firekirby123]

@@CosmicHours I think my favorite aspect of Tunic is how, through sheer experimentation, one could theoretically beat the entire game without collecting even a single page of the manual. In my own playthrough, I actually learned about the "Golden Cross" *significantly* earlier than the game expected, simply based on which manual pages I was _missing._ I did my best to avoid sequence breaking too hard, but as is the case in these kinds of games, once you learn the rules, you start to see the places you can apply it *everywhere.*

[@jassykat]

Rain World is one of the most profound games I've ever played, from both a gameplay and narrative standpoint.

[@Yamartim]

there is a way to reexperience these games for the first time though: watching someone else playing it for the first time without spoiling anything and watching them figure ir out by themselves or with as little help as possible, it really is a feeling just as potent as when you play a game like this for the first time when you get to see someone else also "get it"

[@boazray608]

Hello and welcome to teaching, seeing that little moment where people "get" what you previously learned is the entire motivation behind good teachers.

[@shieldgenerator7]

i want to mention The Witness because it also has a deeper layer that you can only find by exploring the world

[@Zyphent]

I genuinely can't believe this video didn't mention The Witness. Not only was it one of the first puzzle games I played to have this "layer" approach - but the entire progression of the game is about the thesis of this video. Your progression is locked pretty much entirely behind your understanding of the mechanics of the game.

[@mastersidious9550]

It's not that the green lizards are lazy but more so that they're tanks. They die in like 4-6 spear hits unlike most lizards in like 2 or 3. This is because they have a lot of mass. As a side effect of this, they cannot climb poles but are not killable by worm grass.

[@spectru2021]

They also suck at turning

[@Idk_SSR]

​@@spectru2021they're indeed heavy as heck

[@ahmadrhero]

For a second i thought the thumbnail said" THERE ARE MONKEYS" thinking it's a gameplay video of rain world 😂

[@WolfyRagnarok]

Omg I just commented the same thing, lol.

[@ceithless]

same

[@CreatrixTiara]

Heaven’s Vault is an information game I really love! You’re a linguist archaeologist trying to puzzle through the truth about your civilisation by translating ancient scripts and knowing how to talk to people to get the info you need.

[@bat_nick]

it's the job of every heaven's vault player to show the amazing game to every people they meet 🙌 , I love that game so much!

[@essneyallen6777]

Yessss more people need to talk about this game!!

[@stevesan]

You should use spoiler warnings man, like before the hollow knight trick

[@CreatrixTiara]

@@stevesan nothing I said is a spoiler, it's literally the premise of the game

[@AaronElWhite]

Fantastic video and really grateful at how you managed to avoid spoilers for the most part, but very disappointed that you straight up played that special secret in Animal Well that I had no idea even existed. It's one thing to talk about its existence and even hint at how it might be discoverable, but another entirely to just play the video of it. Robbed of that surprise forever. :(

[@quarreneverett4767]

Yeah when it comes to games you don't want spoiled. I recomend any videos and discussion video including it.

[@DreamLogic26]

Gotta love that Animal Well is item progression labeled as knowledge progression for some reason

[@BeHappyTo]

because the items have "secret" uses

[@GuyWhoPlaysMapGames]

It's more of a hybrid

[@asteria9963]

Glad you mentioned game literacy. There are still elitists who claim that "no hand-holding" is somehow a good thing. Then they end up making terrible games that are just a chore to play. It actually takes a lot of knowledge and skill to make a game that pulls it off well. More often than not, these phony devs don't understand that you still have to teach people with little to no game literacy how things work. The key lies in teaching the player without them being aware of it. If all you do is withhold information in an attempt tp appear cryptic, you're bad at designing video games.

[@Rosie-yt8nd]

I find it fascinating how the Souls-like community has been able to preserve this exciting feeling through challenges. After the initial thrill of discovery, it is supplemented through setting new goals. Where knowledge is not enough, but also requires perfect execution. They even teach each other (which is great community building). Applying that knowledge is something noone can take from you. These challenge runs also come at any difficulty level. Just not dying in general, not getting damage at all, limiting yourself with a certain build, only using certain weapons, or for the ultimate challenge: no level ups. It's technically possible to beat that game with just your fists. You have to learn it like a choreography and actually apply those things with remarkable precision, which is why no outside factor can deminish the accomplishment. There are different strategies and guides (and people come up with new ones), you build your path out of the pieces that work for you, like a mosaic thats entirely your own. And when you completed it, there are infinite possibilities to do an even more challenging run next. The thrill of it is incredible, even just as a viewer. Even if the player is on Try 100, you've seen them walk that path dozens of times, if they will dodge correctly again is uncertain. And that goes for every moment of hours long runs. The suspension is crazy, you literally hold your breath sometimes

[@ianmurphy7460]

Void Stranger. Enough said.

[@ttme1234]

came here to say this

[@raydin9485]

cannot recommend it enough

[@roikukorominet4441]

Yep

[@zeldalux3220]

Yessss

[@AmaiarAiramand]

It totally deserves more recognition. It's a hidden gem that passes over most people's heads simply because of the initial gameplay style

[@TrebleNotes]

This really reminds me of my first time experiencing The Witness. There was no "game guide" or a person telling you the basics of each new mechanic. But instead, each new symbol you would come across which had its own rule would slowly reveal its mechanic through experimenting and studying what solved each puzzle. Soon the puzzles not only show you how to solve the game, but they give you a brand new perspective as a whole new part of the game is revealed.

[@mooby1721]

I have never thought of there being a genre of "knowledge" games before. But, having watched the video, I realize this might be one of my favorite kinds of games. Outer Wilds is one of my favorite gaming experiences, and I enjoyed Tunic even though i didn't complete it....this has inspired me to reinstall it and give it another go. I have to recommend a game called The Wutness to anyone who enjoys this kind of game. I've never been so excited to complete a puzzle before Haha. Anyway, great video! Thanks for introducing me to the term for a genre i already love ❤

[@bat_nick]

This video really is an upgrade from the last ones, good job!

[@LucumLuftra]

Celeste has movement tricks that dramatically affect the game that are possible from the beginning but only "taught" in the post game that was add later in as free dlc

[@LadyPickl]

Animal well seems so interesting

[@fartgarfunkeljr]

It really really iiiiiiis!

[@xander4357]

It's sooooo good

[@infinitesimalphilip1470]

It definitely is. I honestly think it deserves game of the year, though I know it probably won’t get it.

[@riri-hj9by]

i refunded it its flaws outweigh its potential

[@princesssoybean]

@@riri-hj9byWhat did you think was flawed? I don’t think I’ll get the game as I suck at the genre but it does look really good.

[@joshuaeng7396]

Yo this video is incredibly well made, nice job!

[@xicufwm]

3:06 "understanding these creatures is crucial for navigating the environment and making your way to the OTTER side of a room"

[@icarusgaming6269]

Get out

[@anders8204]

I hope we'll get more Knowledge based games like Tunic (Legend of Secrets), Outer Wilds and Animal Well.

[@soup3.14]

Wanted to thank you for having captions! I know they can be difficult and time-consuming to include especially for smaller channels but they’re a great help to people like me that need them!

[@CosmicHours]

Definitely a little time consuming but with the amount of work that goes into script writing and editing it feels like it's just part of the process to add them, and I really appreciate it when other channels have them too

[@casualsatanist5808]

A game that truly encapsulates the phrase "Knowledge is Power" is that of a game called *Noita* To keep it short, cuz I could go on gor an hour about this game, this game is a journey from feeling overwhelmed and scared, to coming closer to being a god than in any other game. And the only difference between the two is understanding. This game, its secrets and interactions are so vast that even after 700 hours and having 100% the game a while ago, im still learning new things every other run.

[@matthewanderson7824]

I tried to get into the game but couldn’t. I made it as far down as the ice lab area but can’t get further. I’ve been to the pyramids and to the edges of the world but still haven’t learned much. I think I’m not getting something but I don’t know what that would be

[@casualsatanist5808]

@@matthewanderson7824 youre most likely just not being patient and taking your time, and trying to test spells and interactions.

[@aleafmusic1681]

Yessss Noita!

[@otamatonefan8996]

​​@@matthewanderson7824 curiosity is Noita's strongest driving point, and understanding things goes hand in hand with your chances of success. You could find every location, but without experimenting and understanding, so many tools and useful things will lie just out of reach, or even sit in your hand waiting for a good use that may never happen, even if all it might take is holding the item and going near something or dropping it at something Many things can be understood when you piece together bits of info you find. Even Wand-Building is the same, every bit of info you learn when experimenting all adds up and later will help you know what to look for, and how to piece together the parts of a good tool you want.

[@marcospe2468]

One of the best in this genre is Toki Tori 2. The graphics make it seem like it's for kids but the puzzles are super complex and make you think outside the box with tools you learn along the way.

[@lukamarinkovic5148]

LOVE toki tori 2 !!

[@tomsko863]

Came here to say the same thing. Toki Tori 2 is exactly like this. I forgot who coined the term but games like this are a "Metro-Brainia"

[@TitaniumAlloyz]

17:40 I actually bought tunic mostly because I was really interested in the instruction manual mechanic. I absolutely loved instruction manuals when I was a kid. I would always open up a game and get the instruction manual out on the way home from the game store and read it cover to cover, take them to school with me to read while i was seperated from my beloved video games, and read them on long rides. I was a dork. I still remember when they started going downhill, not coming in color anymore and having fewer pages, and ultimately just not being included at all as all the tutorials were in the game. I still miss them and do wish that they would come back.

[@gerardoalexiscarvajaluc4814]

Oh shit, snnuy! I did't know anything about this channel, so hearing you here was such a pleasant surprise, loving this channel, keep it up dude.

[@benjamincoco8602]

Fear and Hunger very much embodies knowledge is key(it has very serious and adult content in it as a warning), it is brutal and unforgiving to a new player. But, to someone like Frapollo94 who has mastered the mechanics and lore the dungeon becomes a playground even in the most difficult challenges.

[@avryantoinette]

I was hoping someone would mention Fear and Hunger!

[@Avoidasteammate]

I’ve never skipped through a video so much to avoid the chance of spoilers. I am loving this genre

[@khloeprower6087]

Very lovely video! Personally, I’ve always called them ‘Eureka’ style games after the feeing of euphoria that you get when you realize a new aspect of the game.

[@tora9567]

I think they’re called MedtroidBrainias

[@fluffydogsfly-h1l]

I have played almost every single game in this video (besides outer wilds that I'm currently going though right now) and these are some of my favorite games out there. Great video!!!!

[@DungeonMartian]

I'm a new, aspiring game developer, and the games you talk about on this channel are the games I want to make. Thank you for putting these feelings into words and bringing light to the games. Please keep making videos like these!

[@hanthony]

God bless you for putting the list of games shown in the description.

[@garrub3991]

Lingo and Antichamber are two of my favorites in this genre!

[@shroomer3867]

Another game which kinda does this is Space Station 13/14. It's based on a round system of 1hr or more. Each round restarts progress, but the more knowledge you have the more you can do in those rounds.

[@fractalgem]

All hail lord singulo!

[@MageSkeleton]

i noticed a severe lack of Myst. i love these types of games, and i love seeing them speedrunned. The one thing that bothers me about Animal Well that you didn't cover was how it was inherently designed with population in mind. Imagine playing such a game for the first time, and having potentially limited or no use of the internet. You would be left with a puzzle that can only be solved with "brute force."

[@Kaytsey]

Myst is just a badly aged puzzle game. Nothing knowledge based about it, apart from the shortcut straight to the end.

[@quarreneverett4767]

What do yiu mean population and internet. You mean outside guides or an online mechanic

[@TripleGatan]

@@AnOliviaShapedGremlin not the remake?

[@ian_egaming]

Here before this channel blows up. Excellent job and beautiful editing! Looking forward to see what the future holds for this channel

[@yaroslavyevsieiev5890]

I knew it was you Snnuy Now I'm subbing Good vids!

[@SharmClucas]

The title immediately made me think of Her Story. I wish I could experience it again for the first time, but the best I can do is make someone else play it and watch them discover everything for themselves. I think narrative driven games like Visual Novels lend themselves really well to Knowledge-Based progression, but it's cool to learn about some games in other genres that have that same progression system. I keep meaning to play Outer Wilds, but now I really want to play Tunic as well.

[@thegoat9219]

This has to be by far my favorite genre. I like to call it metroidbtania and it can imclude all genres of game which are very fun to explore

[@CosmicHours]

I love these type of games but I tried to avoid calling them Metroidbrainias in this video because it would appropriately describe Animal Well, but a game like Outer Wilds has no upgrades, no progression system, no combat, etc. to make it fit under the same umbrella.

[@AugustRx]

metro what now

[@thegoat9219]

@@AugustRx typo it was supposed to be metroidbrainia

[@katie-ampersand]

​​@@CosmicHourshuh, I feel oppositely, I think Animal Well does not fit the Metroidbrainia label because it has upgrades to the player and a set progression system, whereas Outer Wilds does fit it

[@Enlightenment0172]

​@katie-ampersand Animal Well has layers. I'd say that while it's first layer of collecting the core items and flames, the remaining three layers of post-game material better fit this metroidbrainia tag

[@freshglizzy3763]

One of my favorite examples of this is Prey 2017. A very important late-game item is quite literally on top of a shelf in the first room where you'd never actually care to look.

[@RigorTortoise22]

The Spelunky games may also fit into this genre. Of course nearly all the secrets have been found in the first game, but it took years for people to figure out how deep it went. I believe Spelunky 2 has some secrets still uncovered by the community

[@Vukassin]

All point and click adventures are knowledge gated essentially, where if ou know what to do it only takes an hour or two, and five times that when you play it for the first time. They don't have the procedural element and moving pieces for emergent gameplay so you can only really play them once, but that one time is usually all about figuring out you already have the "key". In Loom there is a really great moment when you figure out you have more magic available to you than you first throught, it feels pretty amazing.

[@Bluesine_R]

The Witness is pretty much the epitome of knowledge-based games. You have explore different areas of the island you’re in, not to gather items or tools, but to learn the rules and mechanics of how each panel type works. The open world of The Witness is one of the most dense and well designed of any game I’ve played.

[@fractalgem]

And with enough knowledge you can get the true ending in extremely short order!

[@nomenenhum1830]

Tunic reminds me of the experience of playing games as a non-native english speaker. When I was young every gameplay was like Tunic's. It's kind of nostalgic, in a way.

[@icarusgaming6269]

In Burnout Paradise every event is set somewhere in the open world, but there are no restrictions on where you can go once you begin as long as you achieve the required score or reach the end goal. All in-between routing is up to you. There are also no guiding GPS lines, so the first time you try an event in an unfamiliar area you'll almost certainly take an inefficient route by trying to figure it out on the fly. You might even get lost. The way to overcome this is not through trial and error, it's by collectible hunting. There are hundreds of collectibles clearly visible from a distance because of the well thought out 3D sightlines that lead you into secret paths you would never have thought to take. Some of them may even look impossible to reach at first. Your reward for completing these isn't any sort of resource or progression, it's new routes to take that allow you to completely dominate events in those areas. The stunt run is the most harmonious example: It's a stylish score attack event that's so open-ended the only mandatory element is your starting position. From there you can go in any direction you want to hit as many tricks as possible. So when working on a stunt run route, you look for a tight path of high-scoring obstacles near the starting position, and then from there, radiate out towards whatever area you prefer or are most familiar with. You don't have to know the whole city, just how to get to a good spot you can reliably trick in. Because of their differing map knowledelge, no two players stunt runs will look the same - in fact, they'll probably be in two completely different locations Ubisoft games are also like this, but they do it in the worst way possible. Rather than requiring new discoveries to progress, they're so forgiving that you can abuse the same boring strategy for every scenario. There's no reason to berserk a guard to draw all his buddies to him, then throw a smoke bomb at the whole group and take them down all at once when you can whistle each one over to the same bush and pull them in. You completed the encounter, but you did it in the least fun way possible. But because the game rewarded you for disengaging with the toolset, you'll do it next time too. This doesn't just apply to niche interactions, opportunities to do something awesome are everywhere. In Watch_Dogs every single enemy is a well of focus waiting to quickly recharge your meter so you can pop more headshots once you take him down, but you didn't do this because hiding behind a crate and shooting him works just as well. In Assassin's Creed every single little object sticking off the side of a building is a platform waiting for you to jump to it so you'll never have to climb the rest of the way up a wall ever again. This means that by playing the game the way it teaches you, your experience will be fundamentally divorced from its actual design. Maybe you'll figure out two or three interactions, but you'll miss 20 or 30. Every player who falls for this trap will also unintentionally contribute to spreading the ever growing amorphous mass of misinformation based on their lack of attained knowledge they finished the game just fine with. That's why the uninformed sentiment that every Ubisoft game is the same has become so popular - everyone plays them the same way, and then assumes that's how their contemporaries like Spider-Man are also meant to be played. The only way to experience a Ubisoft game as intended is to know someone else who has already done this and get them to mentor you, or deep dive mechanical guides with like 100 views each. It's obviously a losing battle. By far the most information-based Ubisoft game is AC1. It actually gives you a detailed guide on how to complete every main assassination complete with maps and explanations of target behavior, but it hides them *in the pause menu* behind a button you would never think to click on. The investigations are not in fact sidequests, but intelligence gathering missions that reward you with bits and pieces of this information that must be analyzed and combined, making them essential for a smooth assassination. In my experience they also have too many moving pieces to be fully committed to memory, solving the replay value problem. Even the cutscenes are almost classrom-like epistemological exercises for the player to take part in as new concepts for understanding and critiquing the world around you are introduced, reflecting Altaïr's journey primarily being an intellectual one. It's largely responsible for sparking my interest in this design philosophy in spite of the astronomical barrier to entry

[@megaing1322]

The by far purest example of this I have seen is Toki Tori 2 (*not* 1): The only "upgrade" you ever receive is your reward for 100% the game. Everything else is pure knowledge gain.

[@bakacdaz]

Zero Escape : Zero TIme Dilemma also has something almost similar to this concept. The true end only unlocked by Typing in the real name of real mastermind. And only way to do that is get most of another endings

[@ЛилияЯмилевна]

Hmm, then AI:Somnium Files NA would count as one too?

[@SnapdragonSK]

They're both by the same guy (Uchikoshi) and the concept shows up in a lot of his works, so I'd say yes! Virtue's Last Reward is, imo, one of the best set up examples of knowledge progression gameplay in the visual novel/puzzle game format

[@mrthirdperson00]

Very good video concept and execution 👍🏼 All the games you mentioned are some of my favorite games, but I never noticed a connecting pattern until watching this. I'll definitely be using the Term "Knowledge-Based Games" from now on 😁

[@Javifaa]

I think La Mulana would fit here. Because a big part of the difficulty there (and the game is really hard) is just piecing together what the hell you are supposed to do.

[@DeXyfero]

This video perfectly encapsulates my feelings about games like these. Theres something truly magical about not knowing the bounds of something, and when you complete a game, it seems to become infinitely smaller, less but the same. I dont know how to finish this comment. Sorry

[@alpaltntas3628]

Great video not snnuy man. As a diehard rain world fan it's good to seeing it here. I'm curious about the next video

[@FioreFire]

You might never get another first playthrough of a knowledge-based game, but there's still something special about the second playthrough where you get to use all that knowledge to speedrun or see just how deep you can get into the game while skipping as many items or areas that were "essential" to your first playthrough as possible. Tunic is a great example of this; once you know where the shortcuts are, you can get around to so many different areas without even picking up the sword!

[@thedarknightnicht]

Only banger games in this video. I wish there were more outer wilds, tunics or animal wells. I crave these games above all else

[@ianhall7513]

This gives me something to think about as I try to make my first game. These are things that drew me to many of these games that I never really put into words before. This is the kind of game design insight that I needed to hear.

[@ocara5906]

2:06 riebeck on GD is so cursed

[@Atlessa]

Right? I had to rewind to make sure I hadn't blinked and missed a cut.

[@noahpilarski]

lol I wonder where that footage is from

[@BinExis]

​@@noahpilarski that's from the trailer.

[@ItzLoki432]

I know This doesn’t really fit, but phasmophobia is such an amazing horror game that can be played and enjoyed whether you know nothing about it or if you have 1000 hours in the game. As there are different difficulties that have more or less evidence. And if you get to the lesser evidence runs it requires less streamlined gameplay and more knowledge to figure out the ghost. (As well as some hilarious moments)

[@jademonass2954]

i gotta say, no other game series gives me that "idk whats happening but i will figure it out" more than the sokpop games they arent always great, but some are truly special i would reccomend *soko loco deluxe* , *bobo robot* , *helionaut* , *pyramida* and *kochu's dream* the most though

[@ojhat]

Fez was this game for me. I need to go back and play that and actually learn and use the language without spoiling anything about it to explore the rest of the world

[@littleyoyo8480]

The fact that Spelunkey 1/2 isn't hear is a crime against humanity

[@LoveBbyJay]

Great video! I love how detailed you go into what for most people are probably just a passing thought. I can't wait to watch more of your videos!! P.S. I absolutely love your voice!

[@AXAXAXAYt]

THANK YOU FOR MENTIONING RAINWORLD!!

[@Frank_G_Finster]

This was a great video to watch. It gave me a lot to think about having immersive fun in games and exploring/creating game worlds. Thank you very much for this well researched and presented video.

[@paetroalexius9299]

Great video, if this style of game is something you love I would recommend Void Stranger if you haven't heard of it before. Probably one of the best in this genre.

[@miracleflame]

One of the most valuable videos out there on KZbin in regards to gaming!

[@CosmicHours]

Thank you so much for the incredibly kind comment and support, it means a lot

[@lunaspirit5445]

This feeling of learning knowledge that hasn't been directly taught to you and using it inside of different/unique scenarios is what I love about some MOBA games that I play. Im not one for competitive PVP/being the best but I do have a lot of fun learning characters and using them in the battles I come across. Anyone can press one of the three buttons whenever they see an enemy and win through reaction time but, it feels quite different when you use a skill that moves your character forward and wonder "Can I use this to get through a wall?". Sometimes moves will be classed as "teleport" and vice versa but there are ways to achieve similar effects with moves that aren't. Or, using a move meant to pull enemies towards you in the opposite direction to push them away in a dangerous situation. In my case I studied items and builds to make a mage/mid lane character work as an assassin/jungler in casual matches. Not as efficient but really fun to pull off.

[@Robust_Laser]

I'd like to give a mention to The Swapper, which is like, it's a level based puzzle game so it's not really open world or anything. And it does have locks in that you have to solve a number of puzzles to move on to the next area, but you do have to *travel* between levels, and at some point, you run out of levels you think you can reach. But you know where the rest are. You just have to figure out how to go... up. Doesn't tell you how you can possibly do that but it feels so awesome to learn what ends up becoming one of the most important techniques in the game just by experimentation.

[@Smeagol44]

I was addicted to Outer Wilds when I played it. So much, that I had to find other games like it when I finished it. It turns out, there pretty much aren't... Just a handful, and not 'exactly' like it. And I had to dig really deep in order to find which were the good ones. I played The Witness, Tunic and Animal Well. And I'm very happy to find your video and see that you also recommend Rain World I wasn't sure about that one at first, but seeing it on a list like this, makes me know that even if I don't like the game, it's gonna be a unique experience. That itself, is more than enough. I guess now I know what I'm gonna play next, I just hope it lasts, after this I have no more good recommendations on what to play. Damn, this 'knowledge-based' genre really needs to grow, it's amazing. And thank you for the video!

[@nerdError0XF]

Its a crime to not mention The Wintess in the video likes this :D It is literally an open world puzzle game where knowledge is only thing holding you from traveling everywhere

[@diribigal]

I felt so old when you said Tunic's instruction manual, which draws from the manual for Zelda 1 on the NES was "a throwback to the 2000s". Like, not only did the decade of the 80s where the manual came from not exist to you, but also the heyday of the 90s when manuals were still bigger than in the 2000s.

[@tomsko863]

I forgot when coined the term but I like the name "Metro-brainia". Another game like this is Toki Tori 2.

[@Seoul_Soldier]

I love these games but I hate that they can only truly be experienced once.

[@Ceres_5]

hol' up, at 2:04, why is Riebeck at Giant's Deep?

[@youtubeuniversity3638]

21:04 Need some way to procedurally generate discoverable stuff. Imagine if Minecraft's crafting recipies could vary a little depending on world seed, for example.

[@chekote]

I’ve always considered showing creatures and environments as spoilers. Long before souls games ever existed. That’s part of the joy of discovery for me. I try to learn as little about a game as possible. Just enough to know I might enjoy it. Then I want to go in as blind as possible. There are so many games that I’ve enjoyed way more as a result.

[@nBasedAce]

I can't believe I haven't seen your channel till now! This video was amazing. The game that I have the most fond memories of is Portal. It actually taught me how to look at things in terms of the laws of physics.

[@aupra9010]

Rain world was so difficult, I looked many things up, and I didn't have that much of the learning experience in terms of many mechanics. I'll check out the other games you talked about and discover more, by myself! :) Great video, good job!

[@miracleflame]

Thanks!

[@GuiSF9]

I remember when I got to the four yellow buttons on the ostrich boss fight in animal well, and was trying to find a way to press all of them, then I used the bubble, the disc and the yo-yo to press them just in time for the door to open. Then I went to the left and realized I was supposed to use the ostrich to do that. Felt like I beat the devs in their own game (even though being able to do this is much likely known by them). Awesome game.

[@Vee_Sheep]

[Cosmo yelling picture] *_Tunic isn't made of voxels, those are a specific thing and the game is just low-poly_*

[@iribaar7446]

"And for this episode of Cosmic Hour, we're exploring this entire subgenre of games that refuse to simply hand you the Mothwing Cloak for progression. That's why the first game I want to highlight is "A Mysterious Well", which simply hands you the Bubble Wand."

[@Mgooy]

Every time this video pops up in my feed i think the thumbnail says 'There Are Monkeys'

[@deftwhistle]

someone else mentioned it but highly recommend Void Stranger for this kind of game, it is a sokoban puzzle game first so it not for everyone but if the gameplay clicks with you even a little its an amazing game

[@TheAutisticFrog]

10:22 RAIN WORL

[@egornick9206]

My love and my pain

[@Tuen9]

22:58 - "spoilers in this genre are detrimental to the experience" 5 seconds later - plays the most hidden piece of sound in all of animal well. LoL. That all aside, these games are great, and I have to play more of them. I solved Tunic's big in-game puzzle in one try, and got the meta puzzle done... a ways after that. I still gotta play Rain World and Outer Wilds. Looks like they'll be great experiences.

[@Youmu_Konpaku_]

"Google how to get out of shaded citadel" "Reads up entire map connections, Five pebbles lore, lizard archetypes, scavenger point system, and lore pearls" Alright let's get out of shaded

[@Tozito911]

my favorite example of this is sonic 1 in the first act of green hill. you start running, grabbing rings, destroying badniks until you come across the first loop-de-loop. you soon discover that you need speed to cross it, so you go back and get some speed to cross it. great! now you keep running and you suddenly enter a pipe, and before you know it, you’re already flying through the air. that’s how you discover that this game has momentum physics.

[@AssasinZorro]

If you like games of this kind, I suggest you play through Antichamber (the are some items there, but the knowledge is the main thing) else Heart.Break() - it's a game that starts like a point'n'click adventure game with some frustrating elements, but later it turns out that the genre is different - it's closer to an immersive sim where there are multiple ways of doing the same thing and the more you know about the world, the closer you get to beginning a god

[@Lulink013]

I'm a little sad Toki Tori 2, The Witness and Fez were'nt featured in the video at all. They all are great examples. - Toki Tori 2 is a puzzle based metroidvania that, unlike Animal Well, never gives you new tools requiered for puzzles. You can only learn more about it's mechanics and then put them together in new brilliant solutions that were there all along. - The Witness is a game about learning it's own rules too. The deeper you go, the more kind of puzzles you'll be able to solve... And there's even a secret layer 2 to it! - Fez, I don't think needs an introduction. It's one of the first games of this kind where you start with the tool and learn more about it as you go. It also has a language to piece together if you are into that.

[@acborgia1344]

For me it was Rabi Ribi, the game has hidden paths that you can only use if you know some hidden game mechanics, which make the game possible to beat without movement items

[@Crev_ce3]

Despite having spent hours in the wiki and watching lore videos thinking I was never gonna get the game because it was too hard (it wasn’t), playing rainworld for the first time STILL felt like learning to walk again.

[@chocolatekake6796]

Was so lost at how i recognized this voice for so long man, glad you're branching out!

[@Neopolis3]

I feel like Animal Well's "third layer" is actually detrimental to the game. It made me enjoy the second layer a lot less, because when I found a clue, I had no idea if it was something that I would actually be able to get use of myself, or if it was part of an ARG-tier community effort. It could've done a better job at segregating it from the rest of the game, since in a game that's all about observing and looking for clues, it's far too easy to get them mixed up and get you stuck on a dead end that you're not meant to be able to solve by yourself.

[@Cyfrik]

There's also the fact that once a puzzle requires you to exit the game and go online, you've already crossed the biggest barrier towards just looking up all of the remaining answers instead of trying to solve them.

[@theresnothinghere1745]

I strongly agree. There is a big difference in experience between an ARG-tier puzzle and an individual person puzzle. Not to mention, ARG's by their very nature are time gated even if you recognized and wanted to enjoy the ARG experience you can't because its already been solved.

[@Garbageman28]

Stephen’s Sausage Roll is the ultimate epiphany driven game and it’s not even close.