Games Workshop's Competitor: Havok Skirmish and an Anatomy of Failure

[@marcoantoniosalazarmatamor9496]

The idea of a “Mighty Max” skirmish game (ok, produced by the same company - let us blame the odd thought on lack of sleep) out a big smile on my face. Shame it was a bomb.

[@Brickerbrack]

Funny I should stumble on this video now; I just recently found my old Kommander's Manual in a box, though everything else is long gone. I think I recall aside from the main set, I had some of the Tribunes, the basic Karn warriors, and one or two of the smaller tanks. Virtually everything got kitbashed into something else over time, mind; I think the tanks got reworked into Ork Wartraks, and one of the Battle Forms might have become a Chaos Dread... 🤔

[@j.e1334]

Interesting video. Do you have any knowledge of Warzone/Mutant Chronicles?

[@SpymasterGaming]

Thanks very much :) coming to a video very soon.....

[@colinspeirs]

Thanks for the video. I actually thought the core rules were ok, if limited, and rewrote them for my own purposes, changing activation to squad, not unit type, and some of the hit resolution I guess that Bluebird weren't taking in GW directly, but wanted a bit of the market MB's Battlemasters but based on SF. Maybe even with an eye on Space Hulk But,as you describe, no good enough and doomed I still use my Havok stuff now and again though, because I have no shame

[@sevatarlives185]

Fascinating! I randomly got a packet or two of Havok minis when I was a kid. To be fair to them the price (as I remember) was a lot lower than GW (I could compare since I was already deep into 40K at that time), and they were pre-painted! Start gaming in seconds! But then again- weird squishy plastic, very poor detailing and painting so bad it felt weirdly insulting. I had no interest in going back for another box, and never saw or heard about them again.

[@SpymasterGaming]

Yes they really weren't a very strong competitor, not enough to pull people away from warhammer 40k! Thanks for watching 😀

[@paulbrozyna3006]

Would have hoped for better from the people that gave us the incredible Manta Force. Would have liked some more insight into the development and that art. Gave me big 90’s 2000ad vibes.

[@SpymasterGaming]

Noted for next time..unfortunately being away with work impacted the time I had to research 😀

[@andersand6576]

Never heard about this one before. Thank you. I do like the art and the 2000 ad vibes it gives me. Could have been fun to see where this game had ended had it been a bigger success.

[@SpymasterGaming]

A bit more market research and investment and I reckon it could have been a contender

[@eldritchmorgasm4018]

I remember this, my father bought the starter set back in the 90s, it's still somewhere lying around here. The idea is good, toys for tabletop warfare, still, yes, the quality could be a bit better. There's something similar, a russian toyline called Tehnolog, it's long dead as well & sadly I never had anything from them, but they did "Z.O.D.", which is like "Battletech" + WH40K EPIC, with very simple rules, everything is very cheap plastik-toystyle (mechs, tanks, aircrafts, soldiers, buildings), the designs could be better, but it looks kinda cool nontheless. It might be propaganda though... 😅

[@JamesNewhouse]

I was 11 when this came out and my dad had already got me well into 40k (1st and 2nd ed). Havok appealed to me as something I could play with my younger siblings who were too young for proper war games and too heavy handed with the miniatures. The marketing didn't seem to be aimed at kids, but Toys R Us and Argos were the only stockists I remember. There was a free Pteravore with one of the newspapers (national, I think) from certain newsagents, it was just the one pose. It came in a little bag and with no sticker for the base. I believe the lore was being published in 2000AD (iirc) again odd, as it was a definitely a kids game. When the models were released, I got a few of the packs (which contained 2-3 miniatures each) and a "4-page" paper stat card, which you couldn't use because the rules weren't out yet. There was a bit of lore on one or two of the pages, and a photo of the prototype mini on the front which made them look loads better than they were. Most shops only got a couple of each pack, which made building a force unlikely. When the starter box was released, the rules were vastly different to the stat cards that came with the models - like the models had numbers for weapon skill, stealth, and stuff like that I think. By the time the starter set was available, nowhere was stocking the model packs, so I wrote to bluebird who wrote me back, along with a list of everything they had at the office and a price list. I ordered two or three times, getting most of what was available. Most models didn't even seem to ever make it into production. I sold everything I had, including all the correspondance to a "collector" about 10 years ago and forgot all about it until now. And yes, the card terrain is a pain to get to stand up, it only fit one way and would just fall over.

[@SpymasterGaming]

Thanks for this excellent piece of extra information and the personal experience!

[@JamesNewhouse]

thank you for making the video@@SpymasterGaming !

[@colinspeirs]

From my memory, it wasn't just that the distributor was mainly Argos, and a few toy shops, but that Argos had a thing where you were basically blind buying You put in your code, paid your money and got a random box, so if you WERE inclined to build a faction, it wasn't practical I got mine mostly from a games shop that had bought some of the boxes after they were dumped, including some of the vehicles

[@Brickerbrack]

@@colinspeirsLittle tip with Argos which I learned buying Transformers. If you know they have several items under the same code, then when you go to the counter, you can ask to view what's available (the term "customer view" comes to mind; I think I used to write "CV" as the quantity when we used the slips). Then they'll send you to the customer service desk and bring out whatever options they have under that code. In my case, sometimes I'd walk out empty-handed because they didn't have anything I wanted, other times I'd wind up with three or four figures.

[@colinspeirs]

@@Brickerbrack TO THE TIME MACHINE! Thanks. I will bear this excellent tip in future, you never know

[@tedytarrify]

I loved Mighty Max. Norman was awesome.

[@retardedfishfrogs1]

I actually quite like the minis, got that retro charm and would look great repainted. I'm too young to have been around when it was new but if it came out now I'd be interested especially since it being aimed at kids would mean it should be cheaper.

[@EtharealBTB]

Omg I remember these! My grandma bought me these when I asked for some Warhammer! They were prettuy cool (in my 9 year old mind!). By today's standards they look awful :P I also had a BUNCH of Mighty Maxs. Those toys were awsome!

[@SpymasterGaming]

Yeah the mighty max toys were very good quality which is reflected in the fact how much they are worth today....turns out, quite a bit! And you are right, for a small child Havok would have been awesome, but that's just not enough of a market to challenge the big guys