Gary Taubes - 'The History of a Very Bad Idea: Energy Balance, Fat Shaming & the Science of Obesity'

[@toni4729]

I've been keto for twenty years and would never go back to eating any other way. Love listening these talks.

[@fraktaleyez4454]

Real talk. Paleo started it for me 12 years ago. Now keto/CKD

[@Carniekelly]

After reading your book Gary, I very easily understood what not to eat, and found out how easy eating healthy really is! Thank you for helping to see that there’s a reason why processed food no matter what they call it is not good!

[@amandajstar]

My goodness, Gary Taubes deserves the Nobel Prize!

[@lenguyenngoc479]

no... he will die very soon with this stupid diet mark my word, he will be just another Atkin or Sarah Hallberg🤡

[@markbones3386]

GARY Taubes

[@juliesaadwellness]

I believed in “calories in, calories out” for 35 years. I started my first diet at age 6 because my mom was on one and I thought it was cool. I spent the next three and a half decades living with constant anxiety around food. I was always hungry, even when I was overeating. During the height of the pandemic I really packed on the pounds. Finally I learned about hormones and suddenly I was eating as much as I wanted to, no longer hungry between meals, and the weight just flew off of me. I was happy, yes of course, but I also got angry, like really angry. All the money I spent on potions and pills and waist cinchers and the time at the gym…all those years of never being able to sit down peacefully to eat because I knew I was going to overdo it on the bread, the chips, the dessert. All the energy I put into trying to lose weight the wrong way….what a waste of time, money, mental energy. Now I eat very low carb. I’m thin, I look 10 years younger than I used to, my PMDD and ADHD are gone, but best of all…I no longer feel anxiety around food. Thank you to Mr. Taubes and all the other journalists, doctors, nurses, coaches, and other folks who are in this fight. The revolution will be not televised. You are saving lives.

[@1timbarrett]

I too believed in CICO for many years, appearing to be the poster child for that model of weight management. But I was working out 5-6 hours per day...! 🏃‍♂️ How many humans, I wonder, can sustain such an inefficient method of keeping slim🤔?

[@napua5217]

I’m so glad to hear your success story! I feel angered that it’s not more common knowledge and they make it like it such a struggle to lose weight but once we go to a low carb way of eating that fat just melts off! I effortlessly lost 50+ lbs without trying so far as I cut out carbs for mental health and chronic fatigue. I want to shout from the roof tops!

[@Photologistic]

I love these keto videos! Gary or Nina I could listen to all day.

[@johngosnell3847]

Rob Cywes has valuable input. Carb addiction is the other half of the puzzle in addition to insulin. Addiction and dopamine explain why people relapse.

[@johngosnell3847]

Gary is brilliant. It pains me to see other people in the low-carb community think "energy balance" has some validity. Gary Taubes and David Ludwig are the only two I've seen who truly understand that hormonal theory is a different paradigm.

[@Olivia-W]

CICO is like "money in, money out" for poverty. Just spend less and earn more! I mean sure it's _technically_ correct, but also useless and condescending. The same way poverty is complicated, hormones are too.

[@gabes80]

The amount of energy you consume is certainly relevant. Even Eric Westman agrees with that, and if you pinned down Taubes or Unwin, they would totally agree.

[@doltBmB]

@@gabes80 haven't you seen the talk? they gain weight on starvation diets. the only thing that will lose them weight is actual starvation. energy balance is almost entirely irrelevant.

[@dreaminginnoother]

I remember when I was in a low wage job and a coworker was saying how it's all about saving. I was like, if you do the math, I would have to save every penny I earn without spending a thing for 35 years to get to millionaire. Rule of thumb is helpful until it's not.

[@JD-rc6lq]

I believe the correct way to look at it is that the body is entirely self regulating as to energy output constantly seeking homeostasis and energy conservation. Scientists studying the hidatsa hunter gatherers have shown that their BMR is identical to westerners despite a hunter gatherer lifestyle. Meanwhile the input side is subject to conscious regulation only to the extent that particular eating patterns and food choices trigger feeding behaviors that take on almost unconscious characteristics.

[@szghasem]

I've seen Gary stumble in arguments in older debates, but he REALLY nailed it in his response to Dr. Cywes question. His example of the thin and obese guy smelling the cinnamon bun was brilliant!

[@victoriar9728]

I think I am like that. I am on low carb now and I keep dreaming of bread and carbs LOL. I would eat a slice of bread and I gain a pound of weight the next day. SO low carb works for me:) I can hardly eat a pound of meat, I get full easily, so the meat diet is perfect for me.

[@anag5144]

It takes one week to craving disapear.​@@victoriar9728

[@LouCadle]

1:24:00 On the other side of the equation, there's the Vermont overfeeding study. Volunteer state prisoners were overfed. Some gained but not all at the expected "3500 calories is a pound" rate, but some never did. The final one standing was eating over 7000 calories a day, never gained an ounce, never changed how he exercised, and was weeping while begging to be let out of the study, as eating 7000 calories per day actually hurts and the body really wants you to quit. Some people I've met gain on 800 calories a day, and some people can't gain on 8000. It's odd. I imagine it's down to genetics, but no one has explained it in detail. (It's easier to call fat people uncontrolled and lazy and sell them drugs that hurt them, after all.)

[@nswhorse]

Clearly individual biochemistry, which we must assume is a result of a combination of both genetic and epigenetic factors, has a significant influence. We are all prone to citing ourselves as evidence, especially when offering specific or generalised advice to others, or standing in criticism over others. And we are all prone to a search for a simple, one-size-fits-all explanations, especially if confirmed by our own experience. What is really needed is a significant research effort to determine the genetic and epigenetic categories of human beings that react differently to the same metabolic stimuli. We need a set of metabolic classes or types and an inexpensive, simple way to determine to which class/es an individual belongs to. I foresee that being a hell of a long way off, as scientists don't yet seemed to have realised there is a need for any such thing. Just eat a low fat, calorie-controlled diet and exercise.

[@1timbarrett]

I too have met highly disciplined humans (mostly females as it happened) who restricted themselves to cottage cheese on iceberg lettuce for months on end and yet just kept ballooning, poor things. 😢 🎈

[@engc4953]

Your excellent book Gary, Good Calories, Bad Calories got me started on my journey to optimum health. Thank you.

[@gribbler1695]

It's heavily biased and he tends to exaggerate the science. Ref: Good Calories, Bad Calories: A Critical Review (part 1)

[@nswhorse]

@@gribbler1695 What does he exaggerate? Where? What are some examples of Gary's bias? In what way do his conclusions need to be modified as a result of accounting for his bias and exaggerations?

[@IndyRickHikes]

I love the deep dive into the medical/scientific history. We seem to be dealing with a complex system that resists simplistic mechanistic explanations. Just when I think I’ve conquered the beast - and I have had great success seemingly concentrating on insulin - the beast confounds me and returns. Sometimes a concentration on first principles seems to work, but sometimes not. I am a complex system that resists simple explanations.

[@barryadams7609]

Kudos Gary! Literally the best way I have heard the insulin hypothesis explained in the Q&A (was their a question in their?) at 1:13:30. "They (lean people) are not people whose lean tissue is eating up the energy before their fat tissue get it. They are people whose fat tissue does not want to store that energy, so the only thing they can do with it is burn it off." btw- The Case Against Sugar was a revelation for me.

[@Dan-gs3kg]

This can mean that those calories are being forced to be used. Growth, healing, excess energy?

[@contrarian717]

In my wife, and my case, at least, it makes sense. Our fat intake is very high. 200g of macadamia nutbutter a day. 4eggs, 2avos every day, for 4 years now. Battle to add weight. Very skinny

[@eugeniebreida1583]

@@contrarian717 I have a problem of not being able to gain weight as well. I am afraid that the only way to gain weight is to eat plenty of carbs. As shown by the keto diet etc., I don’t think we can gain weight by eating fat, if we are the lean people whose cells do not seem to want to absorb extra calories.

[@anjaplazoniccoulson1086]

​@@contrarian717 but it is known that fat intake is not going to get you fat. I know from my own skinny experience. To get any fat on me, i have to eat carbs

[@jacobwiley411]

And the funniest part is that those of us whose bodies like to store the fat would have been highly advantaged at any point of history prior to us having food at a whim.

[@masteringfibromyalgia]

At the end, the question was raised about overeating and binging, if it’s hormonal or a psychological disorder. They discussed the times they ate and could just keep on eating, then go through a period of time of not wanting to “binge” eat for days or several weeks. In other words this was not a daily experience the the person asking, even though before eating keto she was bulimic. This got me thinking that it’s hormonal: perhaps the body had a need for the extra food for healing and restoring purposes, therefore the brain injected hormones for hunger. Just like they had said earlier in the question answer time, that kids are eating more because they are growing, and not growing because they eating more. Eating disorders are very serious, I did not know that we could break the fat storing process permanently. Now I understand how starvation hurts the body to the point of no return. This was very informative and definitely worth the time invested to watch. Ketogenic eating help the obese and the underweight, the body will heal itself and fix itself given the right nutrition.

[@eugeniebreida1583]

I am confused. How does a too thin person (myself) gain weight on ketogenic diet? Truly interested in specific guidance (I am 63yrs). Thank you in advance!

[@masteringfibromyalgia]

Your body will feel hungry enough to keep eating enough protein and fat to heal and build, but won’t trigger you to eat too much, and your weight will increase. Ketogenic is a state of using ketones for energy. Of course ketones come from fat stores, but can also come from the fat you eat. The protein will build bones and muscle and other tissue/organs. This is healthy weight gain. The fat provides the energy needed for this healing building process.

[@johannas.l.brushane2518]

Could be a hormonal side to it.I don't recall who elaborated on that people in stress (can be psychological in nature, like a person in some abusive relation/situation but they can occasionally physical like a marathoner) tend to gather visceral fat but occasionally one can see people when they are maybe not (yet) obese but have that "cortisol" type with a little belly and added to the upper back around the shoulders. And that is different from the "grandma body" with wider hips and maybe chubby arms (which may not be in risk of other associated illness). Maybe there's an interpretation somewhere in the brain signal taking just the cortisol as the fight or flight to start to conserve energy?

[@MrBDezno]

What an amazing deep dive! He is an amazing investigator! TY TY TY Taubes!!!!

[@hazelfox5613]

Thank you for your talk, really interesting and useful. Your book “The Diet Delusion” totally revolutionised my life for the better.

[@itzakpoelzig330]

When I was a teenager, I read a book that had been my mom's when she was a teenager. It was called The Mystery Of The Pearl Pendant or something like that. It was about a teenage girl who was overweight (though, what that meant when it was written in the 50s, I don't know) and went to a sort of fat-loss summer school in San Francisco. She had to solve a mystery, I guess, but I don't remember that part of the story. I just remember the descriptions of what she was allowed to eat each day. It was like, a small salad with no dressing, a glass of milk, and a graham cracker. Even at thirteen, my first thought was "yeah, but is she supposed to eat like that for the rest of her life? That can't be right."

[@tunneloflight]

The fundamental issue you are describing is the simple rule that is so often overlooked, or gotten wrong. Correlation is not causation. Forgetting that it is all to easy to get into a self referential tautological loop. And then to see only what you expect to see. And it doesn’t take very much complexity in the system for most people to get stuck in this very loop - while not being able to see that it happened. Figuring out causation is very often the key to solving problems. Understanding actual causation offers the chance of finding solutions. It does not guarantee a solution will be found. But getting causation wrong almost certainly assures that no solution will be found except by chance.

[@Mofiac]

Wow, thanks for the historical explanation and your keen observations.

[@freddyt55555]

1:41:19 - The question about the all-potato diet can be answered pretty easily. Potatoes, eaten without any fat, will break down to glucose rapidly and cause an immediate insulin dump. Since there's no presence of fat, it will not trigger the Randle cycle, and both glucose and insulin can be cleared rapidly as well. Obviously, this can only work if you're insulin-sensitive.

[@jakobdekim6458]

Verry smart,observation,we need to be healty first,then will be able to burn the fat,to have a balanced metabolism🤚😃

[@rajeevdsamuel]

Not everyone can do squats and deadlifts every day to maintain insulin sensitivity

[@TheShorterboy]

Decades ago someone studied sheep and found the difference between fat sheep and thin sheep was the number of insulin receptors, which I guess is why keto works.

[@LouCadle]

It's a far better guess than "fat people are all weak-willed and lazy," which is still what most doctors tell you.

[@anjaplazoniccoulson1086]

I love Taubes' book: Good calories and bad calories! Ever since that book i have been devouring books and lectures about nutrition. Even before that, it was my top interest. Having so much information and understanding, i could not understand this lecture at all. After 1h 15 min i just gave up and i am listening mindlessly. I tried slowing down the speed. But still no comprehension on my side. 😢

[@PieInTheSky9]

Gary Taubes is a legend.

[@gwenj5419]

There are tons of weight loss tips for how to tweak your energy balance. They don't work Years ago, I used to drink regular soda. I switched to diet soda, lessening calorie intake by many hundreds per week. I didn't lose any weight.

[@Attmay]

I took up long distance running and barely lost any weight at all until I gave up diet soda.

[@ms-jl6dl]

I just stopped eating and lost a lot of weight. I've heard that was tested in Germany in the forties,and it worked very well,allegedly.

[@MrWhite-7]

red bull which I used to like made me gain weight

[@KetoGalAnn]

Quite interesting to see the interaction between very accomplished men/women in their area of expertise, and who hold strong opinions. 🧐🧐🧐🧐

[@DrBussanich]

Why is no one talking about D-lactate?? Do a PubMed search. D lactate promotes insulin resistance and is a single fermentation byproduct in the gut. But only our liver can clear it. I like L lactate, which our cells make. This suggests fiber and fermentable starch both could promote large swings of d lactate if you have the wrong balance in micro biome. This explains “why carbs”. Fermentation byproducts that screw up our insulin resistance. This may also be why two people can both eat same Keto diet but one has less success than the other. Carnivore needs more studies in people who don’t respond to standard paleo, removing all fermentable fiber.

[@itzakpoelzig330]

Interesting. I just read Dr. Salisbury's book (from the 1888, he invented the Salisbury steak and recommended the carnivore diet as a cure for various things) and he goes on and on about "fermentable foods" and how bad they are for the body. I didn't put much stock in that, but from what you're saying, it sounds like he may have been spot on.

[@carnivore_kate]

The answer with the potato diet is Randle cycle. When you mix carbs and protein, you are gaining weight. When you don't mix it, your body will adapt to the energy source of your choosing. It explains why there are tribes that can eat mostly starch and not be obese. But these tribes eat only starches.

[@contrarian717]

Interesting. Maybe this is Dr McDougal's argument (he is passionful for starch diet).

[@gribbler1695]

No, the Randle cycle is concerned with the mixing of carbs and fats.

[@JD-rc6lq]

What is this tribe that eats only starches?

[@JesusChrist2000BC]

​@@JD-rc6lqLook at Dr. KNOBBES presentation he covers a tribe that only eat potatoes and is ripped.

[@KathrynGower]

Another great lecture. Y'all never disappoint! :) :) :)

[@prins424]

Science is just as prone to dogmas as any other human activity. But scientific dogmas get a scientific veneer which makes it "anti-scientific" if one tries to correct it. In this way, ironically, science becomes less self-correcting than most other fields.

[@dmackle3849]

Absolutely! And another problem with following the science is the science is following the money. A not implausible solution that generates greater revenues will have stronger advocacy. Big food, big pharma, big media, big screw up.

[@JamesBond-wx3nz]

🏆This was a wonderful video. [I'am]Total lay person with interest in academia nutritional science, and got most (or a lion's share) of it in a positive sense of learning. Glad I listen to both the talk and the Q&A half, very informative. Excellent video🏆👍well done.

[@jeannedigennaro6484]

Now I Don”t respond the same way to carb food aromas as I used to before I ate carnivore. Took a while though.

[@jayeme1483]

There was a philanthropist close to Dr. Osler who used a meat diet to help mental patients named Moses Sheppard .

[@1timbarrett]

I’m cautiously optimistic that Dr Chris Palmer’s new book will change the way we treat mental dysfunction🤞🏼. Dr Palmer goes so far as to say “All mental illness is metabolic illness.”👍🏽👏🏼👍🏽👏🏼👍🏽👏🏼

[@susanhopemason]

It is going to be difficult to word this question because I am the only person that I have ever known or heard of who experienced this phenomenon. I am 69 years old and post-menopausal, and the first time I gained a lot of weight was when I was 24 and pregnant. I a 5 foot 2 and a half inches, and I got up to about 200 pounds. I also quit smoking when I got pregnant because cigarettes made me gag when I was pregnant. Shortly after having the baby, I lost all the weight very quickly with no effort. No change in diet to speak of, but I did take my baby out in the stroller every day. I went back to smoking at some point after that, and never got fat again until the next time I quit smoking. I gained the weight super fast. The next time that happened, I only got up to around 150 or 160 without any dietary change. I couldn't stand it, so I started smoking again and lost the weight even faster than I had gained it...again, without any dietary change. After that, I didn't gain weight or quit smoking again until I was in my 40's. I think I have quit smoking about 4 or 5 times, and every time I got to about 200 pounds, or maybe a little more than that. Every time I started smoking again, I lost the weight even faster than I had gained it. Sometimes a lot of walking was involved, but I never changed my diet very much, if at all. No matter what I did or didn't do, I could not lose weight unless I started smoking again. Everyone always assumed that when I gained weight, I was eating more, but I knew I wasn't. I was eating the wrong things some of the time but even when I was thin, I ate the same wrong things. I didn't always know they were wrong things, though. I am learning a lot more now about what foods are healthy and which are fattening. Now, that I am learning things that I wish I had known decades ago, I am thinking that there may be some chemicals or something in cigarettes that affected my hormones in some way. I am not smoking now, and I have cut my carbs way down over the last 3 years, but the weight won't come off. I just had my labs done a week or so ago, and my A1c has gone down, and I am no longer prediabetic. My thyroid is no longer slow, and my blood pressure seems to be improving. But, my insulin is still high at...33.34. I have no idea what it was before because no one has ever checked it. I didn't even know to ask before. Anyway, I have never known or heard of anyone who had the same reaction. A lot of people gain a little weight when they stop smoking, but most people assume it is due to eating more. This phenomenon doesn't affect me the same way anymore. The last time I got thin was about 10 years ago, and I was smoking at the time. I didn't change anything about my diet, but I was walking about 7 or 8 miles a day, going to work. At that time, I wasn't even trying to lose weight but the weight just melted away in no time. Once the walking stopped for reasons I won't go into here, the weight came back on and won't come off no matter what I do. I think it must have been hormonal changes from menopause that changed that former phenomenon or effect.

[@OIOnaut]

One saved MIND at a time. It is the only way. Today I had four different discussions at a local muscle beach with lifters and cold water enthusiasts. They all were on some kind od medicative drugs and not seemingly well (normal people). All were indoctorined with the main stream narratives about fat, workout, salt, red meat, non-fasting and multiple meals/ day, mixed macro eating, social eating ect. ........and still ...said my (Gary´s ) view made perfect sense as their grand parents lived long and un-ill. DUH

[@pehu1322]

Gary argues here very scientifically and yes: correlation is just not causality! You have to hear it several times. Events which take place together are just not causal. One can stop growth with too little food, nevertheless one does not grow by eating. Gary is a scientist and argues exactly and correctly

[@csmrfx]

The idea that the metabolism is a single-compartment boiler needs to go. There are six of energy reservoirs in the human body, with 4 different types of energy containing substrate. The food itself inside the digestive system. The blood is the intermediate compartment with some sugars, aminos and fats. The liver is another compartment, with two different types of energy, fat and glycogen. The muscles hold a reservoir of glycogen. The adipose tissue holds enough fat to power the metabolism for months, usually. Then as a final measure, the body tissue itself, the muscles and all, are an emergency reservoir of energy and nutrients. GROK! 8)

[@eliseville]

Dr. David Perlmutter adds a causative element even before insulin resistance can begin. High uric acid. Humans used to average around 3.5 (can't remember units). Now 7 is common! But a cause even before uric acid levels rise is our nearly universal low D levels! I twice gained weight. Once at 10 after moving substantially North from Hawaii to a NorCal Winter, then again at 35 when put on D-depleting carbamazepine. Both D lowerings occurred simultaneously with massive emotional stresses, so hormonal mixtures may have made it worse than even insulin alone. Keto has made the difference for me. I thought I would be obese the rest of my life, but once I got my D > 50ng/ml (125nmol/L) depression & all pain disappeared, letting me start the most successful Keto/IF lifestyle!

[@nswhorse]

Yes, vitamin D3 is probably the most widespread chronic deficiency, which has a raft of flow-on effects to virtually every system in the body. It will definitely interfere with the effectiveness of other beneficial changes. And we have just been through a worldwide event that was made immeasurably worse (I believe deliberately) by rules designed to make as many people as possible D3 deficient, negatively affecting their immunity and susceptibility to a certain pathogen.

[@MichaelLoweAttorney]

CICO as an explanation for fat accumulation is a truism. It’s a logical fallacy. It is no different than saying “buy low, sell high” explains successful stock trading.

[@raymitchell9736]

It's an interesting history and interesting how we got to where we're at today. I have friends that are confused as the industry flip-flops on diet advice giving them diet "whiplash" . What hasn't changed really in all these years is cut out the process foods and eat real food. Maybe if people didn't get exposed to franken-foods and break their endocrine system is some bizarre way by following the recommendations of the diet disasters. Gosh this is so complex, I hope they do the studies to find the answers instead of the tautology loops they're presently doing. Just Eat Real Food... I'm planning to start growing my own produce soon... I'm not a hamster and I don't like being on this damn wheel any longer!!!

[@jeannedigennaro6484]

Brilliant guy. Love Gary.

[@joepike1972]

1:14:29 If you really want to answer the question of what to feed your kid who wants to grew tall and not dismiss the idea, feed them meat not vegetables. It has been the general consensus of parents in meat eating groups I have seen.

[@Doolie_Doink]

As a strong adherent to a keto diet, I was very surprised that a Calcium Artery Scan result done this week decayed dramatically, in 2018 my Agatson was 24, now in 2022 my Agatson is 96. Considering I have eaten no carbs, no sugar, no alcohol what so ever during that whole period, I hope that some one can provide me a clue to this, as I have no intention to stop keto. I have no idea where to find an extpert to discuss this with or an informative link. Very grateful for any hints. PS I only have a vague thought / guess that the magnesium and zinc supplements I take daily might be inducing calcium, else I have no ideas. Many Thanks

[@kateaye3506]

Maybe try contacting Ivor Cummins.

[@sigawof]

Do you consume vegetable oils? I suggest trying carnivore for half a year and see if your CAC score changes for the better.

[@ellemelbaus1129]

Do you follow Diet Doctor? Dr Sher interviewed Dr Arthur Agatston, the inventor of CAC. You may find it helpful. kzbin.info/www/bejne/bKPReJqrqJabp80

[@ummadam9608]

are you getting enough k2 and d3? K2 gets calcium back into bones and teeth. You will want MK4 K2. You'll need therapeutic doses for the meantime. Be sure to get a follow up after a few months. You may not need as much magnesium if you're not eating carbs AND eating organ meats. Look into low b1. If the body is low in b1, then you'll need more magnesium. Raise b1 levels by eating more organ meats, specifically liver. When b1 levels go up the need for magnesium goes down. I would recommend milk kefir too since it has k2.

[@enila1212]

Vitamin k2 might help

[@OIOnaut]

If someone truly believes so much in this model of energy in is same as energy out, what about radiation energy across the spectrum? One has to take it into account because there is no organism or object that does not resonate to energy and thus ”steal” some from the provider like a star at the sky or even magnetism induced in our bones from the core of a ferrous planet. Now, I have become familiar with endocrine factors and am willing to admit I do not know enough to defend a case. It will take a lifetime of work. Good Job to point that out Gary. You are a true hero even if I mocked your breathing ;)

[@jimgillert20]

Outstanding video.

[@Billy97ify]

I think that eating too much fat makes me slightly fat. My hypothesis is that since I once had some belly fat, those fat cells can store some fat easily but it is thin now, but not ripped. In my youth I didn't store fat but I did in middle age I developed some fat cells. I eat pretty well zero carb.

[@joantendler6518]

I did a lot of research into which foods are the most ketogenic, and I found that peanuts, nuts, chocolate, and seeds contain an amino acid-arginine, and a fat-linoleic acid, that block ketosis, lower satiety, and increase hunger! They also have enzyme inhibitors that actually block digestion of fat, and so block ketosis! I avoid these foods, if you can call them foods, and am pretty successful with keto.

[@Billy97ify]

@@joantendler6518 I pretty well eat none of those. I am starting with fasting for fine tuning. So far, so good.

[@emailvonsour]

@@Billy97ify Write like a literate person.

[@whittlejoe]

This presentation is so fantastically confusing, at least, to me. I view this as a perfect example of not seeing the Forest for the trees. This tree is called “obesity”. The forest is the changes in the modern diet to accommodate modern civilization. Processed food was made possible by supplanting saturated fat (animal) with lineleic acid (plants). This caused a “never before” change in quantities of exposure to linoleic acid. This may be the answer to the rise in all modern chronic non infectious diseases.

[@SuziesCornerInLove]

I wonder what it would look like if we consider the generational affect of chemical neuro-excito toxins being used on us, starting in babyhood, within this conversation.

[@davidgifford8112]

Surprising there was no mention of the Randle Cycle, which regulates energy intake into the cells to choose between sugars or fats. Only it kind of explains why modern “balanced” diets are fattening.

[@gribbler1695]

In other forums he talks about it as the Glucose Fatty Acid Cycle: the more carbs we eat, the more fat we store.

[@nswhorse]

Almost no one talks about the Randle Cycle, as almost no-one even knows about it. It is one of those inconvenient discoveries of science that was buried because it didn't fit the dominant narrative. Even its discoverer and namesake couldn't help but try to spin it to fit the dominant paradigm. It is just starting to break through now, and more and more people are discussing it.

[@mickmcmenemy7701]

I'm a big fan of Gary Taubes but he missed an opportunity to clarify his key messages in this lecture. In my opinion Gary did not respond well to Eric Weston's well intended and straightforward questions.

[@billyhw5492]

Westman was asking stupid questions worded even stupider.

[@billyhw5492]

When was this lecture given?

[@johnjustice8478]

Great presetation

[@dzikdziki2983]

Very informative

[@AlexRixon]

re:naked and afraid, yes they are in massive caloric deficit, but the are also at baseline insulin. Given insulin injections I would suggest the weight loss would slow

[@shannonmarko6809]

Well, I disagree with Dr. Cywes. Because my Lepton signaling wasn’t working, I was eating 4 to 5 pounds of meat a day on carnivore, and so zero carbohydrates. And I put on 50 pounds. The only thing that fixed it was working on leptin resistance, which involves a lot of quantum biology. I still, three months later, now eating 8 ounces of protein a day, and the rest and fat, am not losing weight. Carbohydrates are not the end all be all, insulin is not the end all be all. As Gary says, there are multiple hormonal factors at work. So, before I over ate carbohydrates. Then I was over eating protein. Now, am I over eating fat? My calorie input is 1800. That’s enough to lose weight and yet I’m not losing weight.

[@pepper419]

Perhaps you should wake up to just what part of your food is fat and what part is protein. What you weigh and how much you're doing to to eat four or five pound of meat a day. Is it all meat? Fat? What ever is, it's a lot more than 1800 calories. You should be eating only one or two meals a day to lose weight.

[@eugeniakoumaki3669]

Gary is amazing, but please, someone tell him he needs a bit more salt-these deep inhales are possibly because of that, low carb diets need a monitored salt intake, over 10gr for most (for non medicated people with no congenital conditions affecting electrolytes management)

[@1timbarrett]

He does often sound breathless.😮

[@kristapedia]

It's because he's talking non-stop. You too would be out of breath if you gave an hour long speech.

[@toni4729]

That woman that said she can binge on steak and broccoli hasn't exactly got fat on it.

[@viviengreen1130]

Does anyone know the name of the person speaking at 1:25? I'd be interested to know if he ever found a source for what he remembers reading about the starvation resistant people.

[@OIOnaut]

Gary. A fact is that you are as great in your work, reasoning and persistance as you lack in breathing technique while giving a presentation. A medical condition is no excuse if I hit something. In fact anyone having one benefits even more. In all humility and deep deep respect with no shaming intended I ask the following. How much would you pay me to coach performance breathing? If you pay my trip to you or fly yourself to Finland I will coach you free of charge. Again no negativity in my comment so please do not take it so. I know what I can achieve with performers. My apollogies for bringing this up.

[@carnivore_kate]

Jason Fung needs it too

[@bettydantzler5862]

Yes please! I’m exhausted trying to help him breathe.

[@1timbarrett]

I wonder if possibly Gary’s breathless speech patterns are due to nerves?🤔

[@AcousticGroove56]

Why is Gary speaking so fast? He's out of breath. I'm struggling to stay engaged even though I know what he's saying is important.

[@LTPottenger]

time limit

[@nancykowalczyk2070]

Fast talkers…it’s so true of so many interesting speakers, unfortunately & drives me nuts. I slow down their talking so I can hear it and read it and absorb it.

[@theskyehiker]

That is his way of speaking. Seems consistent with his previous lectures.

[@ActivateMission2ThisTimeline]

me2.

[@Gengh13]

You can always change the playback speed of the video.

[@pointshealthcoaching8474]

George Bernard Shaw was a vegetarian, so it makes sense that he believed that your stature (how fat or muscular you are) is attributed to your "constitution" - since he couldn't change his own secondary to being hopelessly vegetarian

[@1timbarrett]

I had forgot that GBS was vegetarian. I still admire his plays however. Anyway, thanks for reminding me🙏

[@Kyarrix]

Why does Gary sound so frantic and out of breath? Listening to this talk is inducing a certain amount of anxiety. It's hard to listen to someone who sounds this way. I've read his books, I agree with a lot of what he has to say but this video is extremely difficult to listen to.

[@chim-choo-ree]

Dr. Cywes has the patience of a saint.

[@gregorym3020]

So eating sugars and starches must be reduced as the body stores fat due to insulin . Go it . Now,eat more fatty meats and natural whole fruits and you can not overeat as appetite is saited . Insulin remains balanced . Bodies metabolism is balanced . Hormones are balanced .

[@deepsquat600]

How I feel as though one point these lectures seem to miss when they're talked about metabolically damaged individuals is they don't speak of the amount of muscle mass a person has can greatly determine your caloric demands.. If I have 40 more pounds of muscle then my friend.. But we are both same height and weight I may need about 400b calories more pretty.. Up to 900 more .. So in a week that's 3000 to 3600 more and still maintain.... And also the speakers seem to make it seem as though it's absolutely impossible to lose weight while then let me ask you folks this why do you eat at all.. Think of the money you could save

[@6789uiop]

I take mk7 vitamin k2 with vitamin D.

[@pepper419]

People often starve themselves of fat. Vegans do it all the time but is it a good thing? We have fat around our hearts and livers; our brain is sixty percent fat and twenty percent cholesterol which can't be found in vegetables. Potatoes and rice are glucose which is pretty much harmless on it's own as it has no fructose content. It's the fructose that is dangerous.

[@randymartin9876]

Good for a professional in the field. Obtuse for a layman. Could use a simple summary.

[@theskyehiker]

Drives me crazy that Gary won’t stop interrupting Westman. He wanted to make a point or ask a question and all Gary could do is keep talking. Had to stop listening.

[@HallyVee]

Uh... what? Gary let him ramble in without a point for quite a while...

[@theskyehiker]

@@HallyVee I guess we were watching a different video. I love GT but he can go on, and on, and on.

[@billyhw5492]

Westman couldn't form a cogent thought.

[@AlexRixon]

Dr Robert Cywes 😆

[@Norman_Gunstan1]

Dr Cywes on here! lol

[@mycomage]

Question: is the dyspnea a side effect of the low-carb diet? Dude sounds so winded

[@lashedbutnotleashed1984]

I appreciate what this guy has to say, but he seems perpetually out of breath and it puts me off.

[@J2theK]

Maybe he is. Maybe he has a health issue. Get over it.

[@fakecrash3943]

He said he's out of breath because he used to be addicted to smoking.

[@user-pr5tx9ep4m]

Love Taubes but listening is almost torturous. He sounds perpetually out of breath and very nervous.

[@cheriseelliott9230]

It was much better to listen to at 1.25 speed.

[@Ethan-sg9cm]

The traditional French diet is loaded with white flour, white sugar, white potatoes, white rice, and lots of saturated dairy fats. The French did not get obese and remained lean even with all the insulin elevating carbs. Gary misses the other side of the equation which is the what controls the insulin sensitivity of individual fat cells. Insulin sensitive fat cells respond to insulin stay fat and get fatter. Insulin insensitive fat cells ignore insulin and get lean by releasing free fatty acids. What the French diet lacked was large amounts the the omega 6 polyunsaturated fat linoleic acid. Burning linoleic acid in the mitochondria of fat cells fails to produce sufficient hydrogen peroxide to the cytoplasm to inhibit the auto-phosphorylation of insulin receptors to the cell surface making the fat cell become very insulin sensitive despite already being full of fat and glucose. However, burning saturated fats like palmitic and stearic acid lead to the production of hydrogen peroxide by way of reverse electron transport thru complex 1 of the electron transport chain. This makes that fat cell insulin insensitive while it is burning saturated fat. There are many high carb cultures that stay lean and have a low linoleic acid diet in common. Low carb diets side step the fat cell insulin sensitivity issue by dropping insulin so low that it doesn't matter how insulin sensitive or insensitive a fat cell is if there is too low of an insulin signal to do anything. This explains how carb creep in a low carb diet makes people get fat on what is actually still very little carbs because their fat cells are still quite insulin sensitive just waiting for a sufficient insulin level to respond to. Gary has been told about this but seems to be resistant to modify his hypothesis in response to black swans like the French diet which is a shame because he could be even more correct instead only being almost correct.

[@LTPottenger]

It's not. It gets most the calories from butter and cream and pate. When you have loads of fat with every meal it slows the absorbtion of carbs anyway, and real sourdough also absorbs slower. It's called the french paradox because they have more saturated fat than anyone else in europe.

[@keithbertschin1213]

Why is he so out of breath

[@lennonzamora5387]

He was a heavy smoker most of his life.

[@OhioGalReads]

Bariatric surgery is based on the balance model. 😐🙄🙁😬

[@billyhw5492]

And that's why it's a miserable failure.

[@LouCadle]

ironically, any surgery lowers your leptin levels as well. (though possibly not forever.) Avoid all surgeries you can!

[@Snapkrackpop]

the woman who spoke about bingeing on steak and broccoli has a behavioral addiction to eating.

[@jhubbard7256]

Or is missing some key nutrients…she probably should try a higher fat, carnivore-style diet.

[@HenriqueSilvanyar]

❤❤❤❤❤❤

[@ActivateMission2ThisTimeline]

GatesIsAevilEugenisist.

[@prins424]

If anything, Gates is a dysgenisist. How is he doing his eugenics? In what way is he trying to improve the genetics of the population?

[@MrWhite-7]

Probably a pedo too

[@jeannedigennaro6484]

No nuts, haha!

[@RocknRollkat]

Oh please.

[@YourLifeRedefined]

Kind of disappointed in this one. I’m usually a fan or Gary’s but I don’t think the guy really want to be doing this.

[@monnoo8221]

and???? Mr. Taubes still has to learn in terms of constraints and conditional causalities. He also is striken by a fixed idea, and furthermore does not know that science itself: statistics, does not allow to set up an experiment with variable outcome = several hypotheses from which you can chose after the experiment.... It is not that simple. Regarding the energy balance : It is absolutely impossible in the long term to maintain weight with you less than what you metabolize. Now,his assumption in his crusade is that everybody believes including him, that the metabolic rate is a constant, defined by body weight, and the stuff we eat. Which is wrong. The energy balance model still holds, nevertheless. And it is ALSO true, that the energy expenditure model does not provide a hypothesis about the mechanism. Of course, not. s not its objective. It is possible to maintain weight with a isocaloric diet, and it is possible to gain weight with the same amount of calories. Yet, which only proves that then the average metabolic rate goes down, and is NOT constant, if you have snacks all the time and insulin resistance. I am almost inclined to say the s* word regarding such crusading talks as delivered by mr. taubes

[@IllinoisCitizen]

The energy-balance theory being attacked here is not the horrific insanity Taubes makes it out to be. Clearly it is too simplistic, which we all understand. However, here in the West, and the US in particular, obesity is now an epidemic. Clearly, as a society, we are eating too much, and more importantly, too much of the wrong things. You may not be able to blame/fat shame a "constitutionally" challenged person who gets fat, but you can blame a society that is exploding with obesity due to eating too much of the worst foods possible. We may not want to "shame" fat people. But maybe individuals should place some of that shame on themselves, learn what to eat, and lose weight and thus become healthier.

[@billyhw5492]

You completely missed the point. You are incapable of learning.

[@jhubbard7256]

It is almost impossible for the average person to learn what is healthy when you live in a nation that promotes the Low-Fat/High Carbs/High Frequency Eating model - and attacks any other model with their flawed ‘science’ …in the words of Dr. Ken D Berry about this low-fat diet model, “it is idiotic, sadistic, and cruel - nobody on the planet has enough willpower to starve themselves for eternity.”

[@sprezzatura2296]

All I hear are excuses. If you are obese, you simply eat too much calories.

[@KenJackson_US]

You can't get fat without insulin. So what stimulates insulin? Carbs.

[@contrarian717]

​@@KenJackson_US my question on this point is always that fish/meat also spikes insulin quite a bit, even though BS does not spike much. See insulin index (even though that is far from perfect).

[@billyhw5492]

Why do people eat too many calories?

[@LouCadle]

There are people who gain weight on 800 calories per day, just like those mice. Explain that.

[@raddimusmcchoyber3362]

What are those fairytale creatures that live under bridges called again...?