GAUGE THE ISSUE: Oh, A Wibble, How Very Predictable

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[@JagoHazzard]

Cheers for the shout-out! My take on the Lion thing is that from the Hornby perspective, Rocket sold out and they already had the rolling stock, so Lion is an obvious follow-up with similar appeal. Meanwhile, Rapido have a "wouldn't it be fun?" way of doing things, and just decided to go for it for the anniversary. This theory is pure speculation, but I don't think either company was looking to sabotage the other (as some have speculated online).

[@thomaslord756]

Hi Jago, love your channel by the way. :) Personally, I think you have hit the nail on the head with regards to Hornby's and Rapido's models of Lion. However, I think there is a bigger picture. Yes, companies will clash and products will overlay. Don't get me wrong competition is a good thing. However, I can think of 5 separate occasions in the last 3 years involving Hornby releasing there product to the open market before the competition. Also, the competition normally announces their product first. Here are the 5 examples: Hornby released their older tooled class 66 to market while the Hatton's class 66 is still in development. They also released the terrier just before Rails. Same store with Rails and the 3rd class Rocket coaches. Hornby releasing their Genesis coaches before Hatton's. And finally Hornby announcing an all new class 91 after Cavallex models showcased their samples. Now some of these are going to be a coincidence. But I personally think some of these are Hornby trying to stamp out the completion, especially with the small manufactures. Has anybody else noticed that Hornby hasn't had a similar clash with Bachmann recently though? Just saying that's all. I think I'll start my own model company and announce that I'm developing the Rainhill Trials loco Novelty and it will be available by Q1 2022. Then I can get the Hornby one for Christmas LOL.

[@OlivierGabin]

@@thomaslord756 Please, announce a GWR 14xx too, DCC ready, five poles motor with fual flywheels, NEM couplings and with an RRP of GBP 100. I'm interested to have one by Hornby, let's say for Q1 2022...

[@FormallyknownasE100]

Crashed it more times than Mallard because it's speed makes it look like an asthmatic snail - and here's why I have binged most of your videos haha

[@FormallyknownasE100]

Also good points. I've noticed many of the smaller manufactures have now started to go down the state interest at price £xxx route. I feel for the smaller manufacturers who are getting stung by this, thought the larger manufacturers aren't exactly in great health either (the recent boom notwithstanding)

[@oscarosullivan4513]

They are good craic 0-4-0’s my first set was the Caledonian express

[@MRacer001]

why are those little 0-4-0 loco's so ungodly fast

[@FormallyknownasE100]

@@MRacer001 It's pretty exciting for children would be my guess.

[@laurencefraser]

@@MRacer001 probably weigh less, for one thing, while running off the same motors/power supply intended for the bigger engines.

[@courtforder4046]

Thank you for bringing light to this topic. It's nice to have all the facts rather than just screaming blame at the companies

[@minislot1]

Meanwhile there's stuff like Bachmann's current LMS Jubilee tooling which can only make about 45% of the class, including seemingly only one of the four preserved examples. At the time Bachmann said they'd extend the tooling across the whole class if sales were good, when a large proportion of potential buyers were probably waiting for specific locos within that untapped 55% or so and thus the sales didn't arrive at the levels expected. Shooting themselves in the foot really, and infuriating for me who just wants an RTR Leander to modern standards. You'd think in a situation like that there'd be room for two manufacturers to between them make all the Jubilees, especially as there'd be no direct duplication unlike Terrier's, A4's, Class 66's etc.

[@alexhando8541]

Whilst I agree with much of what you say Chris, I do take fault with the idea that Railway Modelling is an inherently expensive hobby. Many people have built (from scratch) very realistic and detailed models from materials as trivial as cereal box cardboard, Papier Maché, plaster, coffee stirrers, cream cheese tubs etc. Although, this aspect of modelling is very time-consuming and requires a lot of patience and experience.

[@NirateGoel]

That's the thing, sure you can say you can scratch build but that takes experience and time. And the result isn't always worth the time spent, compared to the price of the R2R equivalent.

[@BMMEC6000]

I was just waiting for him to mention the Pre-Grouping coaches

[@mattlander9119]

Rapido have said that they had the licence deal first, Hornby then tried to get it and were told it was already taken. That prompted Hornby to "announce" there's. Rapido then decided to publish their announcement with the full details on 1st April in full Rapido humour.

[@hythekent]

theirs

[@mattlander9119]

@@hythekent really?!

[@oscarosullivan4513]

@@mattlander9119 April fools

[@mattlander9119]

@@oscarosullivan4513??

[@Lennon6412]

I am a bit fed up of Hornby at the moment. Their behaviour towards other manufacturers smacks of them throwing their weight around, rather than trying to be 'better'.

[@churrodead7191]

I think manufacturers should communicate with each other more so that they don't make the same items at the same time.

[@Reading3412Studios]

Forget lion, all I want is a rapido pacer

[@lukeslocomotives]

It would be nice for a new Pacer. I hope it would come with a free gun.

[@Reading3412Studios]

@@sirhandelthefalconworksengine glad that I could help you

[@oscarosullivan4513]

Funny

[@technogamer18]

Ahhh so THATS why rails stopped selling Hornby... and dropped me in it for cancelling preorders which were sold out everywhere by then. >_>

[@uries15]

Is the model railway industry alone in not doing proper marketing research?

[@NirateGoel]

No, not the wibble, anything but the wibble ack... the wibble it's everywhere save yourself....

[@uniquely.mediocre1865]

Listen, all I want in model form are some Cramptons and Shannon, its all I ask for

[@profcraneporter]

Oh a GTI video, how very delightful! Money is the curse of all model railways, a roll on Rapido and Hornby

[@steambenmodels]

I think point most folk are missing, is what you said: Hornby are doing Lion, while Rapido are doing Thunderbolt. So, you could essentially count them as different models.

[@BirchleyJunction]

Rapidos announcement mentions prototype examples too, so it isnt unlikely they will produce both Thunderbolt and Lion

[@james.black981]

You had me at "Asthmatic Snail"... hahahahaha 👍👍 🇦🇺

[@EdwardsDayOut]

Here we go again...

[@barleyarrish]

don't mention the horrors lurking behind the excellent detail of the hornby h-class... my mallard with six coaches and no dyno-car on straight level track 105.06 MPH, mmmm...

[@oscarosullivan4513]

The H class was a disaster

[@smalllocoguy770]

One word to describe model company clashes and the speculation surrounding them..... WIBBLE!😅

[@oakrail8100]

You it a good day when Chris uploaded a new GTI

[@tinplategeek1058]

"Dear General Motors, as we made the first production line motor car, you cannot make any using those techniques. Love Ford" That is just as silly as "I made it first so you cannot" approach in the modelling anything industry.

[@BeauMinnick]

Having been an American rail fan/model railroader since the 80s, and new to the British steam internets, how many Big Boy's, Cab Forwards, NYC Hudson's, SD40-2, F7s, and GP7/9s are there in the HO market? There's room for two Tarriers, two Manors, hell maybe even two Lions. Not really that big of a deal.

[@alexhando8541]

*Terriers (as in the dog)

[@NirateGoel]

How many are there then, remember we here in the British isles don't know the american HO market. There really isn't room, or the need for duplication there are so many that haven't been done that duplication and means neither company makes as much back on their investment.

[@BeauMinnick]

@@NirateGoel Nirate Goel I understand your point. Even with the American, and Canadian markets seeming bigger, it's no they're not. The British market for all things train seems to be larger. Not just for modeling, but also in the publics overall interest in railroads. Take the Heritage seen in your country compared to mine. You have trains running on their own track work all year long. Us with a few exceptions a locomotive may only run a few times a year if at all. Then you throw in that the British public uses train travel quite often. The American public not so much out side of some commuter in a few cities. I think what this leads to is just a lager hobby interest making market room for a few duplicates. With lead time on a new project being 18 months to two years or more, it's happen stance for the most part two of the same thing come out at around the same time. I think the point is there is room for some over lap in the market. Is there a need for a Bachmann Manor most likely not. Five HO Big Boys yes five. Over kill maybe but I do love my Broadway Limited one though. P.S. I'm loving learning about British steam and Chris's work among others has really helped me along.

[@TheRedJab]

@@BeauMinnick All the sales figures I've seen for each market show that the North American market is much larger.

[@robertbalazslorincz8218]

"Hell, pretty much everybody who has dabbled in railway modelling would have had at least one loco based around that 0-4-0 shunter at some point in their lives. And no doubt crashed it more times than Richard Hammond because it has a scale speed that makes Mallard look like an astmathic snail."

[@alexhando8541]

Smokey Joe!

[@adrianbrown7070]

The Train Simulator DLC market is even more amusing... which I gave up model trains for...

[@eggballo4490]

Can you make a video on why trains are such a niche interest? I don't think that topic is ever talked about enough.

[@NirateGoel]

Bit of a difficult topic, it's like asking why anything is a niche interest.

[@andrewfanner2245]

@@NirateGoel I'd wager there are more interested in trains, one way or another, than are regiestered members of poitical parties :-)

[@gerogyzurkov2259]

There's always niche for everything. Hence why manufacturers try to cover everything that is of enough interest.

[@duncan1945]

Loved that Chris, thank you .

[@MDHGames]

Let's not mention the side tanks on the terrier not sitting on the frames properly on some models due to the frames being slightly to moderately bent.

[@oscarosullivan4513]

Or the H class

[@DangerAngelous]

I have me a little J70, I named her Tracey. Beautiful little tram engine she is

[@johndonaldson3619]

Hi Chris, when it comes to film shorts, you're a talented lad.

[@misaelherrera3704]

Always hitting the nail on the head chris cheers 🤘🤙🍺🍻

[@diesel10rules23]

I agree with him on cancelling people oh crap I'm getting cancelled for no reason bye KZbin

[@christophervalkoinen6358]

Having worked with the research teams from multiple different companies, I can say with confidence that none of them are looking to undercut the others by putting out the same products. The lead times and capital investment are just too big for that strategy to make any sense at all.

[@ChristheXelent]

To hear one manufacturers side of the story, you'd think the other was doing just that. But then, positions of power can lead to people lying, screaming bias or witholding certain parts of the story on both sides. But I agree, that behaviour doesn't make economic sense.

[@TerminalSports45]

Meanwhile in the US, this sort of thing happens all the time. Can't count how many manufacturers make big boys or SP cab forwards while completely ignoring a lot of other railroads. I've yet to see anyone other than expensive brass do a Southern Ks-1 prototypically, both 630 and 722 are always put in as the basic consolidation type or in Broadway Limited Exports' case a Pennsy H10 that looks NOTHING like the real thing while using a dumb excuse that "they looked like this when they were built" when I've got Southern photos of their classmates as built and no, they don't, not by a long shot, the Bachmann ones do and that should embarrass BLI, heck they did better with SOU 4501 by giving it a long tender while BLI did not. Everyone makes the USRA standards and many early generation diesels (namely EMD ones) and nobody bats an eye.

[@farmhanddiaries5422]

A bit of healthy competition never hurts anyone

[@josephmarrison4606]

Hornby is my favourite one, as I own it, use it and enjoy it.

[@steamrailwilly]

This is why I prefer LEGO trains. You can make whatever you want. Seriously, the issue of this editorial would be the equivalent of Lionel competing with Atlas or MTH to release special models of the Union Pacific Big Boy 4014 for its return back in 2019.

[@TailsFan369no2]

Don’t forget Bachmann, Broadway, scale trains, athearn, etc. Oh and mth assets are sold off #mthlegacy

[@bentullett6068]

Interesting watch and now everyone knows why Rails of Sheffield and Hornby parted ways. I am surprised this didn't happen with Hattons but I think Hattons have realised they have the detail advantage and less light leak issues that the Hornby generic 4 and 6 wheeled coaches suffer from.

[@NirateGoel]

The falling out is rather petty between the retailers and manufacturers. Rail's reaction wasn't all that mature IMHO, it's more likely to hurt themselves than Hornby I reckon.

[@SecondValveSteam]

I’m with you on that. I can understand why Rails may be a bit miffed but refusing to stock Hornby altogether will only add fuel to the fire. What if a young boy comes in with his dad and asks ‘I’d like a Hornby train set please.’?

[@johncunningham6928]

Just visited the Rails website, and it seems that they are still stocking Hornby...

[@NirateGoel]

@@johncunningham6928 That's old stock, if you note there is none of the more recent releases and a limited number of items.

[@dabluepittoo-aqua4213]

Quality over originality for sure. Who cares if others also made it if your version's the better model?

[@dragonknightadam]

Problem is if they (the cheaper manufacturer) release theirs first then the customer base will buy plenty of those models and then the better model will have a harder time selling because customers are like that, they're impatient

[@johngondol8940]

Thanks Chris, I never knew why Rails dropped Hornby until I listened to your commentary. Very enlightening. Thanks, from Beautiful East Texas. John Gondol

[@eliotreader8220]

Lion actually made a few other film appearances in a few other films

[@StaxRail]

Very well put, although I do think regarding the LMR 3rd class coach that Rails shot themselves in the foot- their product, as you said, was priced far higher and most surprisingly was going to be 3D printed- to me, that's showing a desire for fast turnaround to profit off the Hornby Rocket's success. I mean come on, Rocket was such a cash cow they must have known Hornby would do extra rolling stock for it?

[@NirateGoel]

A desire for a fast turn around maybe, but yet they still managed to be beaten to the punch by traditional manufacturing. They could and should have had them out months before Hornby's announcement. They further worsened their injury by dropping Hornby's range, in some act of petty cut the nose off the spite the face revenge. More likely to hurt themselves than Hornby.

[@mattlander9119]

Rails said they didn't think Hornby would do extra stock for the rocket, how clearly they were wrong. Also I think Rails dropping Hornby products was something else and not the battles they've had but we'll never know for sure as it's probably all legal stuff

[@StaxRail]

@@NirateGoel agreed, I certainly haven't shopped at Rails since, as their prices on other products climbed since then (most likely to cover the lack of Hornby items)

[@robthecatwillshire7429]

Well the battle between Hornby and rapido had actually gone to the way of rapido. Both the lion and titfield movie packs are both been removed from Hornby website and also remove from Hornby announcement video a month ago.

[@TallboyDave]

I'm sort of on the fence about this; Chris does make a good point about market forces; but at the same time, it comes across almost as a 'chicken and egg' question- the manufacturers want to know if there's a market for their product, but they don't know for sure until they actually try to market something. I mean, I'd love to see some good RTR stock for ex-North Eastern Railway locomotives (I know we have the J72 and the Q6, but that barely scrapes the surface of what the NER had), esp. for something like the S3 class (LNER B16's) for mixed traffic trains, or the Z class (LNER C7's) for express passenger trains, but as I said....

[@robertwilloughby8050]

If I had the money, I'd go back to my model layout in a oner, and I already mentioned my liking for the GCR 9Q's and L&YR Class 8's, so the S3's and Z's would be right up my alley - would you add the V's (LNER C6's) and the Class D's (LNER H1's)?

[@TallboyDave]

@@robertwilloughby8050 I don't see why not; the Class R's (D20's) would also be a goodly loco in the mix. I almost feel like I should mention though, that when it comes to the S3's (B16's), I'd personally advocate specifically for the B16/1's to be the standard bearers, as the /2's were Gresley rebuilds in the mid/late 30's (including Sir Nigel's conjugated valve gear), and the /3's were the same, but by Thompson late/post-war, with separated valve gear.

[@Madonsteamrailways]

It was a wonderful programme you’ve just shown us. Well done, Hornby!! Good luck!!

[@knuckles1206]

You know, whilst i get model locomotives are expensive af, i find it weird i almost never see model trains running at speed aside form hornby 0-4-0s.

[@alexhando8541]

Because a. most fine-scale models of 0-4-0s aren't built for endurance, they're just meant to leisurely potter along as shunters, and b. Most layout operators don't run them at breakneck speeds because it isn't realistic to those particular locos.

[@knuckles1206]

@@alexhando8541 I mean like express locomotives at express speeds.

[@johnd8892]

@@knuckles1206 this new site has a great example of a Merchant Navy at scale near top speed allowed. kzbin.info/www/bejne/fXPUlp6ZfMyVsLM Helps that they have decent track and not the set track corners so many use. Many great vids on the site. Struggle to find Hornby better photographed and weathered. If you have seen better let me know.

[@thiruraj3866]

"Asmatic snail" lol

[@TenShine1productions]

When it comes to what models to make I think it boils down to...what's running on the heritage circuit/famous/sells well/the kids will buy. If you think about it the hornby displays always come across as a "toy" set to me (all be it a very expensive one) but when you have starter sets that have branded tanks and wagons for Coke and tango (which I had myself) and a basic loop, it comes across as a mixed aged hobby. So the companies will aim for locos and stock that are generic enough that kids and starting hobbiest won't care cause "I saw this at X railway" or "it's my model I can run what I want" but also gives enough space for the high end enthusiasts to repaint, tweak and kitbash into that one unique bit of railway history that nobody knows about except that one photo in this obscure book. At the end of the day. These companies have to make sure they sell the models so NEED to make generic engines. NEED to make relevant rolling stock. Yes I have seen in the magazine's the announcements of the same models and been like "well those lucky people get two options now" At the end of the day. The wallet will speak louder than Twitter or the forums.

[@oscarosullivan4513]

Don’t understand why they discontinued the older models and used automation to make them and sell them as budget

[@TenShine1productions]

@@oscarosullivan4513 cheaper to make..quicker to make

[@oscarosullivan4513]

@@TenShine1productions I know but that wsy you could sell a 33 class for thirty odd quid

[@TenShine1productions]

@@oscarosullivan4513 yeah but you have to take in the electronics used. The level of detail. The metal wheels etc.

[@oscarosullivan4513]

@@TenShine1productions The electrics are simple

[@Living_Life_RN]

Hornby: We want to make a model of thunderbolt. Studiocanal: Sorry mate, we gave the rights to Rapido Hornby: AND? In all honesty, the situation with the terriers, the non-corridor coaches, the manors, and Lion are very much understandable. With all the secrecy and competition to fill such a small market, there are always going to be instances where two companies think alike and end up fighting to sell cheaper, sooner. What I can’t understand is hornby’s latest decision to sell an “inspired by” series of models based on films that they may or may not have the rights to use. At the end of the day I don’t want to be the wibbling keyboard warrior so I choose to stay out of it and just focus on the models I actually need. Modelling should be a freedom from the world, not another way to think about politics and law.

[@GWR6029]

Good video Chris and an interesting topic to bring light to and certainly a watch, the Terriers wasn't the only clash that has happened as there was one that pre dated that a couple of years before. The clash and 'to-and-fro' between the Hornby and Oxford Rail Adams Radial Tank models had the same 'welcoming' depending on which company a modeller favoured the most. I've seen posts and a few videos where Hornby supporters crapped on the Oxford model despite them even owning one themselves and making accusations that was too harsh or out of proportion. Whilst the very first limited batch of Adams Tanks from Oxford Rail did have a 'hiccup' where the spring on the front bogie cause traction issues much like how the Hornby T9 Greyhounds suffered the same issue but Oxford solved this when they went into the 'second batch' when they got more into production. I personally have 3 Oxford Adams Radial Tanks and 2 of the Rails Terriers and all run a dream and have no detail damage or imperfections. Ready to Run models in large quantaties can suffer from a few 'miss-fits' slipping through the net and not making the grade so to speak and some of partial of it's damage maybe due to how it was transported from a postal service be it from manufacturer to seller and or from seller to buyer especially if it's going to be sent oversea's and as i have worked in a postal company and know exactly how every letter and parcel are really handled and treated it honestly wouldn't suprise me if a model turned up damaged at someone's door. Out of the 3 SECR P Classes i brought from Rails of the preserved members (27, 178, & 323) only one had an issue and that was my 323 Bluebell model where one of the buffers wasn't attached to the model properly and after about 20 mins with a friend of mine (that makes models himself by hand) of carefully removing the buffer, gently taking off the original glue that had reacted weird from the back of the buffer and on the bufferbeam face, cleaning the surface, and reattaching it again the model was all good. If or when a company starts gloating and starts comparing one another manufacturers models between 'corned beef and steak' it maybe a shot in the foot for them and may not do them any favours especially if it cycles back on them and they start receiving feedback and comebacks on their 'premiere' models because of the quality of them that their customer received. A R2R Lion model is certainly one I'm sure a fair few had been wishing for for some time, I think Both Hornby and Rapido's takes on the engine may fill most modellers needs for such and engine. The Rapido pack may appeal to those that wanted to have the engine as seen in the film and if it comes with extra's like the bus, character figures, etc then it'll just entise the film fans more, whilst on the other hand Hornby's one of Lion 'as is' can attract those who want to have the engine in preserved state or maybe in a 'working life' state if they have a layout based on the time period and could end up buying another model of the same engine to do slight mods to it to make it into her sister No.58 Tiger. I personally am interested in both sides and their takes on such an iconic engine from both manufacturers.

[@111greatbear3]

Hornby Large prairie tank, Dapol Large prairie tank

[@mattlander9119]

There's been loads of duplicates in the last 10 years. Adams tank, Class 71 just another 2 examples

[@cesareenzoditrivento3254]

Its so neach it's kinda annoying when really common models like the Class 323 don't get made but something from the birth of steam goes exclusive

[@grinningpinhead3961]

Speaking of film making. Tom cruise was just seen filming at the nymr on top of what looks like a black 5

[@Therailwayenthusiast4real]

May we please have an editorial about the trouble that railway modeling manufacturers are in and the good/bad price of such products and your own experience mr eden green?

[@richardchantlerrico]

Personally doesn’t bother me, I will happily buy Lion and the thunderbolt - more early engines for me 👍👍

[@simonroe3241]

Love your videos Chris! But ultimately won't this happy accident benefit both modellers who want a Victorian era Lion as per original appearance (Hornby), and also those who want a 1952 era Lion/Titfield Tunderbold (Rapido)? Surely it's no different from one manufacturer producing pre-grouping model vs another announcing a post-war British Railways liveried one.

[@TheZeldafan57]

My stance on Hornby replicating products made by say, Hattons or Rails is actually quite good. This is coming from an international customer where local hobbyshops are only able to realistically stock Hornby or Bachmann and Oxford Rail if you are really lucky, there's no hope in hell of any old mate who's into modelling who knows nothing about the online space to walk into a local train store and think that they'd rather buy the Rails terrier, or the Hattons 4 wheeled coaches, because they just don't know better. Hornby and Bachmann have such powerful brands that even those with no knowledge of online overseas stores will recognise the brand, even internationally where its practically the only thing readily available in local stores.

[@lukeslocomotives]

Hopefully this isnt Chris saying the Pacers are poo poo

[@maestromecanico597]

Bravo, especially the bit about the cost of new models.

[@oscarosullivan4513]

If you want to do model railways on a budget, Budget model railways is the one for you

[@DavidHennessey1984]

7-58; knocked me dead! :)

[@zangryomani1257]

what do companies do when the make a OO or O scale version of a broad gauge or narrow gauge engine? do they have sepratly gauged track for it or is it on the same gauge has all the other models

[@NirateGoel]

For narrow in 00/HO there's 009 & HOe track. Broad gauge isn't all the represented. For the Irish Broad gauge, R2R tends to be done with standard HO/00 track. Though with the option to widen to 21mm gauge (@4mm/foot)

[@lukebarber9511]

"At war with Michael Portillo?"

[@williamplatt1680]

I chalk it up to the same "Twin Films" phenomenon. What was it about two asteroid films at the same time, and a number of DreamWorks products? Also, asthmatic snail.

[@spring626]

One loco I think everyone would like would be a stirling single since it's a popular locomotive

[@pannierprairie7884]

Rapido/Locomotion Models have already made a Stirling Single.

[@spring626]

@@pannierprairie7884 yes but it is really expensive, so if another company made one for a cheaper price then it would sell more.

[@mattlander9119]

@@spring626 unlikely that another company will make it. Cost wise, that's what things cost so it wouldn't be cheaper if someone else made it

[@OlivierGabin]

Hornby have a clear cuckoo policy for some products. They have succeed with the Terrier (their is far better and cheaper as the Dapol/Rails one), and they follow by screwing Hattons on the 4/6 wheel coaches with their own, whose quality is barely above the railroad range of the firm, but not the price... Now, they try to do the same to Rapido with the Lion/Titfield Thunderbolt, blitz it ! Well, by the way, what's the use of having an Accurascale GWR 78xx when Dapol would have issued their own monthes ago ? And the first ones might not be as good as the Dapol (3 poles motor announced; instead of Dapol's 5 poles, duh !) And nobody manufactures a GWR 14xx nowadays, the only one you can find are second-hand ones on Ebay... This one would not be a loss-making engine, anyone with a GWR branchline and an autocoach would be happy to have one, me included, and she would not cost GBP 200, unless manufactured bu Bachmann, of course...

[@oscarosullivan4513]

Hornby did well like Amazon and Zoom

[@EC-ms1jr]

Epic a new video

[@alanrobertson9790]

No science to this but I do feel that there are more model clashes than could be expected just by coincidence. PS I'm not sure that model clashes was why Rails stopped selling Hornby. I thought it was that Hornby would not sell Rails enough stock to honour its pre-orders. However the people who know, Rails and Hornby have not told us. Just like Bachmann - Hattons dispute also under wraps.

[@oscarosullivan4513]

Battle of the models is like the battle of Britpop

[@robnewman6101]

Wow.

[@10thstudio]

The rails terrier was unfortunately an unmitigated disaster. The running boards are warped and the wheels are out of alignment before you even think about opening it up. I do think Hornby are being a bit nefarious with their product announcements but at the end of the day the consumer wins because we get a better product. For example I want the hattons genesis coaches because they are nicer than the Hornby ones and only £3 more expensive. More choice is always good.

[@GNRA1GreatNorthern1470]

HELL YES!!!

[@stegotron]

Isn't everyone secretly at war with Portillo. Especially with those trousers...

[@steamsearcher]

M Portillo did in fact save the SETTLE AND CARLILE. He loves Railways.

[@stegotron]

@@steamsearcher twas a joke, well aware of his efforts for S&C.

[@HeyItsAJOmega]

9:00 - haha! Funny you mention this, I've had some comments before on my channel about how I've covered topics in my videos that one Sir G. Marshall may have covered already, but very rarely are these comments spiteful or critical. And the man himself has been nothing but supportive and excellent to me! In fact, in a weird twist, he recently messaged me to say he would be remaking an old video of his, on a topic that I'd recently covered on my channel - the Woodside & South Croydon Railway - and wanted to give me an advance heads-up in case I or anyone else thought he was copying my homework - which a few commenters did jokingly suggest! And the irony being, it was his *original* video on the W&SCJR that I discovered what the line was to begin with, and inspired my video on the subject, which then got linked in his new video on the line! It's all come full circle rather nicely xD TL;DR: coincidences and crossovers will always happen, and like how sometimes films with similar topics will come out around the same time as each other, or a song will be accused of sounding rather like another song written before it, these things will happen. Whether it's intentional or not is always a question that's near impossible to answer. And I think ultimately you touched on the biggest problem railway modelling might face above and beyond companies releasing the same locos - the spiralling costs, supply and demand of the hobby.

[@Madonsteamrailways]

Good afternoon!! I’m looking forward to getting a nice little collection going, to get my fleet to be a better range of steam locomotives. The moment I move home, I shall be building a brand new layout of Ongar Station as it is today.

[@bootsnall8996]

Hornby have had a huge market share for a long time, there are lots of others now producing and the Hornby market share is dropping. So Hornby produce what the new comers are doing at a cheaper price and knock them out. (IE Rails with their current issue, and Hattons 4 wheel coaches) It is happening here in Australia at the moment. (Auscision Vs the rest.) Its called competition, and we the consumer benefit from this. Let both produce, the market will buy the better product.

[@dragonknightadam]

Unfortunately in regards of Hornby, it's not always cheaper but it is always of a lower quality... talking from a modern image stand point, if you look at the new Hornby class 91 which will retail at £180 then look at the Bachmann class 90 which also retails for £180 as well.... the Bachmann model is byfar the better model and there was an accurascale class 91 planned but that was dropped because Hornby announced theirs soon after

[@matindjb4629]

One of these are Thomas and friends

[@TankEngine97]

I've been hearing quite a lot about the Rails of Sheffield terriers and the issues with them. Don't these models get tested to see what problems they may have then seek to rectify them?

[@johnd8892]

Does not seem to be a problem in the US. Hard to keep track of how many Big Boy models have been made. An attempt : Athearn Bli Broadway Glacier Park models PCM brass Trix Marklin MTH Rivarossi Tenshodo Inter Mountain perhaps Lionel Possibly more.

[@fishpop]

The whole thing about "Why are multiple companies making the same thing when there's stuff that doesn't have a model?" reminds me of what typically happens in the third party Transformers figure scene. There's like 12 different 3rd-party versions of Devastator (green and purple construction vehicle combiner), it's ridiculous.

[@blasterblaster1221]

Another good one chris...I do have a question that might be another good gauge the issue topic...oil conversions on steam engines...we've seen many ffesiniog engines be converted to oil running and then converted back to coal later on, it would be interesting to see your opinion on those conversions, both failed and successful

[@steamrailwilly]

It could be due to the fact that the Ffesiniog locomotives were initially designed to burn coal, so oil-firing just wasn’t as good at producing steam (at least without having to put in a new design of firebox). But they may have to try oil burning again, if what I hear about the coaling issues in the UK/Britain is correct (I’m in the US of A, so steamers running on oil is pretty common).

[@blasterblaster1221]

@@steamrailwilly yeah it's possible, I live in the usa as well, just interested in hearing chris's opinion on fuel conversion engines, not exactly because of the coal issue right now, more on the lines of historical attempts such as ffesiniogs

[@steamrailwilly]

@@blasterblaster1221 I think he already did an editorial about the coaling issue about one or two years ago. But you are right, it would be interesting to hear what Chris has to say about the subject of fuel converting for steam locomotives.

[@blasterblaster1221]

@@steamrailwilly yeah he did the coal issue already, one of the first to cover it if I remember correctly

[@highdownmartin]

@@steamrailwilly oil firing is very simple and the firebox only needs a different grate arrangement. Conversion back could be done in a week. Oil firing is way kept moderately to the inner firebox. A ten year ffestiniog firebox looks like a one month into its 10 years coal fired boiler. All the stay nuts are sooty but not burned away. Coal firing is very corrosive

[@PaulSmith-pl7fo]

Hi Chris. Thanks for revealing the reason Hornby and Rails of Sheffield parted company (or did you?).

[@ChristheXelent]

Hi Paul I can't (and don't) confirm or deny the definite reason why, just the order in the sequence of events. But, thank you for being patient enough to sit through this

[@rolandharmer6402]

Would some sort of confidential clearing house be a good idea? That way manufactures could keep their secrets but find out if any one else had a prior claim on a prototype. Is it too late for Hornby and Rapido to collaborate?

[@robertwilloughby8050]

Well, Hornby could always do lost engines like the GCR 8Q's and L&YR Class 8...... (Heljan busily taking notes!)

[@joshslater2426]

I’m not biased honestly. I build trains out of Lego, which is probably cheaper than modelling. Except you don’t have the right wheels and you have to fully assemble every piece of rolling stock yourself. I did have a go at Thunderbolt, twice no less, but failed. I’m vaguely considering buying the Rapido kit, but that’s not too likely.

[@gamerfan8445]

No not really. I used to do lego, and can tell you that modeling is cheaper.

[@Train_Tok_Man]

March 9th was my birthday.

[@lindsaydonovan6241]

As a railroad modeller on a budget i say one thing to the manufacturers - if you can't make it under $200 & look decent (100 pounds) & run decent, I won't buy it. Most usually fail on 2 of these 3 at a time. The reason why Hornby railroad is still popular is money doesn't grow on trees. Good enough is good enough.

[@NirateGoel]

It's more like £150, the dolar isn't quite that worthless. About as much as the latest Irish loco. If they can't manage to charge less than a small company with production runs of less than 500 per version it's just silly and these are high quality models too!.

[@lindsaydonovan6241]

@@NirateGoel I'm talking digeridoo dollars.

[@OlivierGabin]

Well, my breaking point on price varies... The most expensive I've got is a Roco Gruppo 736 italian steam engine at 335 €... Usually, over the equivalent of 150 € for British train (I'm modelling UK and Italy), it ought to be top notch to justify my expense. I had found lots of UK engines new below the GBP 100 mark (e. g. : the J50 by Hornby, I have two of them), if you like small engines (and, sometimes, not so small, as the O1 Hornby 2-8-0 at GBP 100, a must have, I have one too), you can pick a decent roster in your prices. You have to browse the retailers to have a bargain, it's not uncommon to have a good bang for your money.

[@horridlorries1237]

I can’t wait for you to talk about Hornby’s reuse of Excess Thomas and Percy Models for their new range. Though the Thomas One is pretty good and almost looks like the Ertl Thomas Range’s Bluebell, but the Percy one is so obvious and the Paint Job is awful on it. Kind of Just Wish the Hornby Thomas Range was renewed instead of just being genetically rereleased...

[@ThatCoalSoul]

9:00 Who's gonna break this to the Whitewicks?!

[@markfoley8582]

Anyoner gonna do ready to run Great Central Barnams As I need a set of barnums

[@HopelessRailmantic]

Will you do a video of the Monoloco? A steam powered monorail.

[@jamesnetherstar2761]

I have a question. Would you be able to do your top five royal locomotives in the world?

[@jamesnetherstar2761]

I say in the world because there's a class of not British Royal locomotives.

[@closed9446]

Ok tbh just like #theunluckytug dapol's HO/OO scale gauge models had been pretty bad and their quality is poor

[@bakkus82]

Hang on.. Geoff, Laurie, Chris, Jago.. Who's the fifth one? What have I missed?

[@ChristheXelent]

That's Anthony Leslie Dawson of Rail Story. His area of expertise is early railways, which he usually cuts off at around the 1860s.

[@bakkus82]

@@ChristheXelent d0h! I blame... covid.. or something. Should have clocked that as I just watched his video on Beyer Peacock. Thanks for setting me straight.

[@lukeslocomotives]

3:16 ah yes theres the loco in my pfp

[@theextremeanimator4721]

O.O

[@alexhando8541]

Freshwater?

[@lukeslocomotives]

@@alexhando8541 Carisbrooke

[@oscarosullivan4513]

Accurascale are an Irish company

[@NirateGoel]

Your point is? That the Irish market is so small that they have to use the british market to keep prices down on their other brand, Irish Railway Models ?

[@oscarosullivan4513]

@@NirateGoel No Irish railway models is Irish outline and Accurascale is British outline

[@davidwhiting1761]

It's times like these that make me grateful to be a V-scale enthusiast (virtual scale, or train simulator enthusiast).

[@SpiritEngine]

Haw! What happened to the intro music that sounds like how it feels when you need to pee!? Haha!