Gender is a Scam | The Embodiment of Masculinity

[@popkultureguru1596]

One of the things that I always wonder is if gender is so “biological, finite, biblical and cannot be changed” like stated by so many if not all conservatives, why does it require so much policing and enfocrement and if not “performed properly” snatched away from people within a blink of an eye? 🧐

[@Wahhhhhhhh-hhh]

1. Biological: This depends if you define "gender" and "sex" differently. Which nobody seems to be able to agree on in the first place. If we define gender as the combined effect of social and cultural influences, it is only biological based on sexual psychological differences i.e. how men and women react to their social environment differently. 2. Finite: Using the latter definition of gender, it is infinite, because there are many ways that society and culture can operate, and many effects it can have. 3. Biblical: well these things are in the Old Testament, and the New Testament. Whether you believe that the Bible is correct or not will heavily influence your opinion on those takes. At the very least, because every Christian I meet, has not received solely direct word from God, but met Jesus through people first, we can say that the biblical interpretations are a social and cultural influence on gender as well. 4. Cannot be changed: Of course it can if it's social. Society and cultures can make up anything. Productive, natural, or not

[@courajess]

I haven’t even watched the video, but your comment was the first one, and if that’s not a whole word, I don’t know what is! 💯💯

[@angechrisman1694]

@@Wahhhhhhhh-hhh Everybody ain't Christian tho. There's like 2 billion muslims gloabally. It's more like an abrahamic religion thing in general (judaism, christianity and islam) not just a christian and I say this as someone who was raised catholic and not muslim

[@Wahhhhhhhh-hhh]

@@angechrisman1694 you are correct, afaik

[@janatomlin1296]

Right! It’s so fragile and yet people scream that it’s absolute it 🤦🏾‍♀️ we should just aim to be good functioning, that alone is hard enough sometimes.

[@miizzjuiicy10]

Whew!! This was a phenomenal video, Kim. This might be a bit off-topic, but I think it's worth mentioning. I'm a lesbian who has mostly dated androgynous women, and the policing exists within the lgbtq+ community as well. I have seen other queer women whole-heartedly expect androgynous or masculine presenting women to perform the gender norms that society has ascribed to men. It is truly odd to see them be ridiculed by other queer women for getting their nails done, twerking, or showing emotion. The performance and expectations of masculinity/ femininity are still pervasive even in same gender relationships. The shit is ridiculous.

[@100Stratusfiedx]

I’m also a lesbian and it’s crazy how femmes expect studs to do the yard work, car work, carry heavy things etc. They’re also usually expected to be the giver or to use the strap. I’ve heard this is common for gay men as well. The joke “everyone’s a masc top until Freakum dress comes on” like why can’t people just be ?

[@miizzjuiicy10]

@100Stratusfiedx I remember seeing this tiktok a while back with a lesbian couple discussing the distribution of their household chores. The femme referred to the activities you mentioned as "stud chores". 🙄 Her explanation was that because the stud is more masculine, she demands her to behave and perform the same gender norms of men. I will say that I was encouraged by the overwhelming backlash she received from that dumb ass comment. However, it's still upsetting that some people within the community won't do the work to unlearn these arbitrary gender binary "rules".

[@miizzjuiicy10]

@@chowderscrib Not only are they boring, but they can be harmful to other members of our community. Some masculine presenting women feel so pressured to perform in a particular way, that they dive head first into unabashed misogyny. An exact replica of toxic men. It's asinine. I hope that one day we can all be released from these shackles.

[@MISSMADISONMEDIA]

Absolutely. Keep that hetero bs out of our community!! 😂

[@chavaliernsharps159]

androgynous dsbw lesbian here--it gets confusing and upsetting for other women to expect me to behave as a man would when those same roles are harmful to ALL of us, including me. ain't I a woman?!

[@dairafernandez6534]

I love how this video feels like the professor going over the material ALL OVER AGAIN because half the class bombed the test

[@Piggy_Piggerson]

Based on some of the comments, the class is still bombing

[@somniatic]

Ha! Yes, I got that vibe 😂

[@emel3925]

Omg calling the founding father’s shoes “kitten heels” is killing me 😂

[@birdiewolf3497]

Are they not?

[@johnwalker1058]

I mean, if you define kitten heel as a heeled shoe with a heel of one-inch height, then the shoe fits (literally)!

[@chasonjohn2052]

As a black agnostic woman I find it strange when black atheists/agnostic folk uphold Christian esthetics when they share clear racist opinions on how black people should dress, act, and speak. Emancipation of the mind is an ongoing process. Whew Chile... Kim you articulated so much I have been feeling girl. Kudos to this video

[@ddacoe0]

GIRL! You need an AWARD FOR THIS ONE!!!!! 👏🏾

[@EWagner818]

Yes she does because this is deep, nuanced and highly analytical! Love it all

[@iamemancipate]

Yes indeed!

[@nyamburam.waruingi4479]

Totally 💯

[@empyrea_2546]

Hi, greetings from Kenya 🇰🇪. I am just going to offload a number of observations from my country. Here, boys are forced from a young age to shave their heads all the way till high-school. People in this country, as a result, assume that cishet men have no attachment to their hair and that them not having a choice in how they wear it is perfectly acceptable. High-school boys are told that they will be allowed autonomy over their hair when they leave high-school but that autonomy is immediately snatched away when they have to enter the workforce(white collar jobs especially). I have a friend who cut his locs for a temporary job opportunity and years later, reinstalled them. And when I tell people his story, people see it as normal when it shouldn't be. One of my classmates (allegedly) cut his locs in his graduating year of uni just so that the chairman of the department(who is known to harass guys with locs during their thesis presentation) would not give him an unnecessarily hard time. Anyways...watching the native guy having his hair cut just cut at me. He looked so broken and here we are saying it's perfectly normal to break someone like this. For men too, it's never just hair. They should be allowed to have that attachment to their hair be respected. Anyways the only schools that allow boys to have autonomy over their hair are very expensive private IGCSE schools. I had a neighbour who had her son grow out his locs from a young age and had to attend an expensive private school just so that he could keep his locs. But their financial situation got bad and the boy had to go to a cheaper school and had to have the locs shorn off. The boy's brother said that he was okay with it. But was he really? I'm probably overthinking. Interestingly young girls are allowed to be outraged when they are posted in a school that demands that their heads be shorn but boys are just meant to take it quietly. Anyways, there is a lot of work to be done.

[@sindhusanthanakrishnan5465]

This was very interesting to read, thanks for sharing! I want to know how and why the shaving hair thing for formal settings (education, jobs) started. Because in the US it seems to be Christianity driven, I wonder if there were external forces at play in Kenya (like a colonisation) or internal (like a new political ideology)?

[@somethingelse419]

I knew gender was a social construct when I cut my hair bald and suddenly low key folks wondered if I was a lesbian and wanted to be a man. I wore the same dresses, the same makeup, but the hair alone put into question who I was. And there’s nothing like not having hair for a swathe of men to discount me. That’s when I learned that some men can’t see details; long hair and makeup are gender cues for them. Even if the hair is brittle plastic and the makeup is overdone, they recognize the woman and give her an A for effort. 😆 And because I was desperately heterosexual, I just showed more t!tty to balance out no hair. I’m not proud of it but it worked. 😆

[@kmk967]

A shame we redefined gender. But no one thought you were a man. Interesting.

[@fgh6526]

They probably thought you were on chemo and didn't wanna bother you.

[@somethingelse419]

@@fgh6526 Maybe a few did, but I even went to a club and the first thing a guy in our group whom I’d never met said was, “Wow, you are bald!” Kinda like he didn’t know what to do with me. And even when I first cut my hair there were enough Black women with TWAs and bald hair that it could be considered a fashion choice.

[@KayDejaVu]

@@somethingelse419 you were the same though either way.

[@GreenGorgeousness]

It sucks when you lose your hair and don't have curves. People end up never seeing you as female.

[@beckynotbestie]

One thing I found interesting is how in femininity training it is mentioned how you can not be a victim. And that sounded alarms because that’s the same foundation for masculinity, don’t be a victim, man up. The question I asked myself was, if men can’t be victims and as “feminine” women we can’t be victims, who is allowed to be a victim? In order to properly exemplified we must get rid of the idea of being a “victim”. It acknowledges that gender itself is oppressive but needs to be accepted. Gender reinforcements (e.g. cutting boys hairs) show how arbitrary gender roles and standard of masculinity/femininity are because it illustrates how gender is about performance rather than nature. Men have to choose to keep their hair short. Women keep their figure small. It’s an obsession with holding up the polarization between men and women by making sure you don’t look like the other as much as possible. Gender itself (or at least the way we have constructed it) is a scam because it requires dehumanization. Men have to be from Mars and Women are from Venus. No one can be from Earth.

[@selenadesanti4920]

Beautifully written!

[@nicholasKMAmusic]

Those last lines……Im ready for your book!!

[@doggi120]

Very well said

[@tmsphere]

Nobody gets to be the victim but the self styled loser. Victimhood never converts to power never ever. it conveys precarity in the real world outside weirdo internet bubbles where victemhood gets you worthless social points in the bubble snd nowhere outside your bubble, which itself already includes ppl that hate you.

[@barrettorth8413]

Being told to reject a victimhood mentality is not the same as being told you can't be a victim.

[@jaebyrd4608]

Interesting that she mentioned girls wearing ties because I was literally threatened with suspension for wearing a tie to school. The principal tries to say it was gang affiliated. I was like what gang is wearing ties the corporate capitalist gang? He was like you and your friends were wearing them that’s a gang. I was like the football team wears them on game days are they a gang? It’s the most idiotic thing I have ever heard

[@jaylan7847]

If you or your friends were black, it was probably racially motivated, if that's what you weren't already alluding to. Wouldn't be surprising.

[@zaink.7243]

good for you for speaking up!

[@morighani]

not the corporate capitalist gang LMFAOO

[@AmazingKevinWClark]

Okay but give us a little more context, were you using these ties in an inappropriate fashion that got the educators attention?? For example creating a group that excluded or bullied others while making the ties a specialized symbol of the group?? If there was truly no sound reasoning behind their actions then that sucks and not cool, it should be something to fix but if you are intention leaving out information that a lot of people tend to do these days, that's equally as bad. In which case you are not contributing to a solution but part of another problem. That being said, nobody should be discriminated against over silly arbitrary things.

[@AmazingKevinWClark]

@Steven Rhodes Because being skeptical is healthy when a story doesn't logically add up. It means that there's probably information the person is withholding. These days especially, I don't just blindly believe people at their word alone. If the world was more honest, maybe I could.

[@alisonspeelpenning9345]

Dudes who are super "not-into-fashion" are also the absolute pickiest people as to what they will wear

[@solstice45]

Guilty as charged

[@rogodwynn]

Yes to all this. Oftentimes, the ways POC are forced (particularly by way of punishment) to perform gender are actually just ways that we’re forced to uphold whiteness without our consent. Whether it’s in the workplace or at school, the presence of aesthetic *policies* implies that how we present ourselves speaks to our morality and inherent goodness. If our hair is deemed “unruly,” so must we be. If our clothing deviates from either “white male” or “white female,” we ourselves must be deviant, and therefore deserving of speculation and punishment that’s only reserved for us (those of us who don’t readily fit into the gender binary and/or the white American Christian ideal).

[@justathought5136]

If you don't mind me asking, how would you choose to present if you didn't feel pressure to present "white"? Would you wear natural afro hair styles all the time, wear traditional African clothing? Is there any standard you would consider best to adapt or should anything go in your book?

[@zaink.7243]

yep. if you’re interested, I think she talks about it this in past videos. either on this channel or her other one.

[@Cyber_Diva]

Nah! Race is the scam, not gender. Gender identity is a cultural construct based on biology and it is anatomical and hormonal. Race however is a complete arbitrary designation. Go in on that.

[@drasco61084]

I just cannot wrap my mind around willingly living life by so many arbitrary rules over how I'm allowed to look..the indoctrination is so strong. That's the only way adults keep repeating this generation after generation. That's exhausting, there are so many other more intelligent and better things to preoccupy ourselves with and we're just here making kids miserable on purpose. Strict dress codes alienate kids from the school environment instead of "helping them focus" or whatever. Constant interruptions to their education because of their shirt being untucked or their hair. It was always more distracting to me to watch someone being disciplined over some nonsense, than by whatever they were wearing itself. Too many adults in charge of stuff really do not seem to understand children whatsoever it is all ideology and control.

[@stealthis]

It's a reverberation of how society doesn't really encourage progress or focus on the things that matter, like climate change. It filters down into children.

[@johnwalker1058]

" It was always more distracting to me to watch someone being disciplined over some nonsense, than by whatever they were wearing itself." Amen. Sometimes, people just create new problems instead of fixing old ones because they're essentially trying to "fix what ain't broke."

[@angelaburress8586]

Y’all are delusional and follow any kind of trend that comes along

[@drasco61084]

@@angelaburress8586 i'm praying for you

[@dewdney101]

The Toni Morrison quote about how racism is all just distraction to keep us from what's important has become very popular again because of the Halle Bailey Lil Mermaid bigotry, and it holds up here as well. Like you said this is all a distraction, a very effective one

[@souleatingconverse11]

So much of this video reminded me of this Ursula K. Le Guin quote: “People are always telling you that “we have always done thus,” and then you find that their “always” means a generation or two, or a century or two, at most a millennium or two. Cultural ways and habits are blips, compared to the ways and habits of the body, of the race. There really is very little that human beings on our plane have “always” done, except find food and drink, sleep, sing, talk, procreate, nurture the children, and probably band together to some extent. Indeed it can be seen as our human essence, how few behavioral imperatives we follow. How flexible we are in finding new things to do, new ways to go. How ingeniously, inventively, desperately we seek the right way, the true way, the Way we believe we lost long ago among the thickets of novelty and opportunity and choice…”

[@ruthnk6575]

I really feel for black boys and men who feel obliged to cut off their hair in the name of masculinity/yt supremacy. I will always be for black boys and men being able to grow out their hair as they please, life is short and having hair to experiment with and define yourself through is a joy that men should be able to access as well

[@naieve7774]

Long hair, shoulder length hair and nice styles with curls is so cute and it’s also a practice in caring towards yourself. It can be meditative when you can take time just for your hair and I feel like people don’t get that! A buzzcut isn’t everything and the end all be all, there’s so many ways to explore and style!

[@telly_0]

Growing out black hair is a commitment of time and effort. We don't have systems in place (yet) to support that. (e.g., enough hair stylists everywhere)

[@ruthnk6575]

@@naieve7774 hi naieve i keep bumping into you on youtube, first on khadija's live and now here lol

[@naieve7774]

@@ruthnk6575 hey!!

[@tfh5575]

when i was a teenager and found out baby boys used to wear white dresses and pink was seen as “light red” and a masculine colour, something clicked like ohh all this shit is arbitrary

[@tfh5575]

hehe i commented this before you touched on the colour pink

[@jmaldo92]

Yes!!

[@telly_0]

Kimberly has been raising her voice more and I'm a big fan of it! I wish I could be in the room when she does these talks or next door!

[@notaburneraccount]

I'd be clapping if she was my neighbor 👏🏼

[@brandyrussell9941]

The first example irked me, why are we sending our children to schools with Christian Nationalism symbols. I've seen the one where Abeka wouldn't let a student walk with dreds. Abeka is a known for it's Christian Nationalism cirriculm.

[@bmwjourdandunngoddess6024]

I wanna know too, like when will the behavior stop?

[@ijeomafarrakhan4020]

Go shopping for toddlers' clothing and you see the aesthetics of gender. There are no superhero, space, science, or dinosaur themed clothing in the girls section.

[@wj2107]

Yup. I have no kids, and I have always found that to be problematic, especially when my best friend’s daughter loves dinosaurs. It’s annoying.

[@jennifernabrahamable]

I have a son, and that’s when I noticed that the little boy section is like 1/4 the size of the girls section - few very variations in colors, styles and themes. Meanwhile they sell a head to toe getup (with accessories - you know, because a 4-year-old needs a cheetah print purse) in multiple patterns and colors for girls. And so much freaking PINK for girls!

[@theallinwoman]

Yes! My toddler son’s favorite color is pink and there are never any options for him. The boys section is always green, blue and brown. I just shop for stuff based on what he likes, I don’t pay any attention to the labels of ‘boys’ or ‘girls’. If he wants to wear lipstick because he sees me wear lipstick and thinks that how you become beautiful, so what? Who decided jewelry and lipstick have to be for girls only?

[@thekalenichannel1812]

And then we wonder why there is a lack of women in STEM…we don’t encourage girls natural curiosity like boys. We give boys toys that exercise their minds and spatial reasoning like LEGOs and toy trucks and science related toys, then we stick dolls and kitchen sets in our daughters hands, prepping them for lives of domestic servitude.

[@mayjeganmogan4514]

33:54 This makes so much sense to me! This is why girls can wear jeans but men can't wear dresses. Because we're comfortable with women in the workplace but not men in the domestic space. That unpaid labour is reserved for women, lol.

[@abnerruiz4011]

This was personal on so many levels. I’m Dominican with 3C hair, I paint my nails, and I do support for people who do not conform to this westernized and often whitewashed fashion. So y’all can already imagine the racist, sexist, homophobic conversations I’ve had with friends and family. What does kill me is when my Afro latino fam tells me that our hair is bad and that the white man hair is better, OMFG!!!! Girl I’m telling you it is crazy out here.

[@Lucismyname]

My daughter is 3 and I'm seeing this programming - from school. I tried not to impose restrictions, she'd play with a doll as fast as she pick up her truck. She decided she liked blue the most when it came to her cutlery. And she loves tutus and dress code associated with femininity- a need I had to come out of myself to meet because I'm naturally what's considered more of a tomboy. And I also do realise those so called feminine outfits are just more fun sometimes, the puffy skirts that twirl, the bows and frills - and not always so deep. So I was was disturbed when she reached for an action figure and then pulled back saying, "it's for boys and blue is for boys". It was the first time she did this and I didn't know how to react, but chose not to make her feel bad for choosing not to take the toy but did say she could play with any toy she wanted. Now she keeps saying, "I love pink, pink is for girls". She's says it all the time, like she's convincing herself or practicing what's right. It's so difficult to know how far to go in reiterating she can like any colour, any toy, any game, without being too much. I understand they're learning about gender and ex a but all the rules imposed that come with it does not sit well with my spirit and something I have to actively works against all the time.

[@CRJpod]

Hey Luci, perhaps you can have an activity with her where you write a poem to all the colors, ask her to list all the things she loves that are blue, how blue makes her feel...and then pink, white, purple etc. Reinforcing to her that colors are about feelings, and her feelings come from her ~ not others Best of luck 💜

[@Lucismyname]

@@CRJpod Thank you so much. This is a brilliant and fun idea.

[@CRJpod]

@@Lucismyname You're welcome 🤗 Also, afterwards, to reinforce the idea - when y'all are getting dressed for school you can reference the poems and say "What do you want to feel like today, the Sun?! Ok, then let's wear yellow 💛"..."Today you feel like water? Ok, blue!" Etc. Again, best of luck sis!

[@Tijggie82]

and to add to that, you yourself can dress and act more "manly" every now and then, to try and counter that thinking. Kind of lead by example (and of course answer questions if she has them or ask questions if she tries to "correct" you.) Good luck!

[@DarkButMysterious]

Hi Lucie, Just wanted to ask how old is your daughter? I ask this because if she between the age of 4 to 6 this could just be a part of psychological development. In psychology there are many different phases of development on children. At around that age children start to present and voice stereotypical gendered behaviour but by the time they are 8-9 years old most girls no longer use such vocabulary or show to have belief in it. So when they are 4-6 years old this is essentially them trying to understand their physiology and the social world around them. They'll say things like "boys don't have long hair they have shirt hair" or "boys don't wear pink because pink Is for girls" . They don't act like this only I'm regards to gender either. They also present such rigid belief when it comes to other topics like flowers, Pets, food, etc. For example, this is "not an apple because it's green apples and apples are red" when it is very much possible for an apple to be green. They present very rigid way of thinking and fall onto stereotypes while processing and understanding their world. Past that age they do not typically present such rigid ways of thinking unless they are socialised to do so. Hence why you'll see 8-9 year old girls say they like the color blue and have no qualms about it. Past that age if such behaviour persist I would be worried. That being said you do a good job of letting encouraging individuality in your child. I forgot what the exact psychological term is. I'll look it up and respond to my comment with the correct term.

[@freddyP300]

As an Agender person I've been saying gender is a scam for years. But being AMAB it's very hard to dress in a way that looks "androgynous" unless I'm dolled up and in a dress everything is coded masculine

[@anonymous2494]

That isn’t real

[@alishac5096]

We should let androgyny expand like a gelatinous cube to absorb all areas of fashion. 🧊👗 I’ve been playing with the brow gel to present masc/femme/androgynous as needed. Do you like to wear any makeup?

[@felicityb93]

I felt this hardcore. I'm bigender and the only way for me to express my womanhood is through online avatars. Trying to ~override~ the maleness of my body in a way that doesn't put me danger is just so much fucking work and it's irritating as hell.

[@tytre757]

Same! I’ve been trying to find other ways to present that signify my gender and pole just reshape my gender into “man with…” and I’m like no that’s inaccurate.

[@notaburneraccount]

Fellow agender here! 💕 I keep saying gender is scam smh

[@reabetswebotlholo3057]

in South Africa and Lesotho the traditional print of the baSotho was originally given to us by missionaries along with blankets to get us to stop wearing animal skins (like the Zulu) while christianisation happened. Kim's so right about aesthetics.... things don't just look they way they do in their own

[@seantshego7793]

Hey fellow, Southy❤️❤️❤️❤️

[@inathi1329]

Hey fellow South Africans. So happy to see our own in these corners of the internet 💕💕

[@MrTwentington]

Something I always try to point out about the pink/blue boy/girl thing is just pointing people to the earliest Disney films. Snow White, Cinderella, Aurora, the blue fairy, Alice and Wendy they all wear blue. Wendy’s brother wears pink, prince Phillip and snow whites prince wears red and blue and Cinderella’s prince wears red and gold. And when I point that out people go “oh yeah!” Realising that the pink blue flip thing is actually not that old. And then point out how colours have different meanings in other cultures just sort of galaxy brains people for a second when they realise oh you wear white for a wedding but this country wears red on a wedding and this one wears white to a funeral etc It is interesting how easy it is to make people realise these associations and signifiers are made up and culturally informed to tell people who we are and what our values are with it. But an outlier to this is people like me whose favourite colour is yellow. Because we all know anyone who’s favourite colour is yellow doesn’t just like it a normal amount

[@user-hl1ip7if9r]

Yes! Our ideas and behaviors are created not intrinsically, but by the ideas and intuitions around us. Someone can feel "natural" to us, when in reality, it's a role or idea we had been socialized into practically if not from birth.

[@yes_anotherone3260]

I am consciously working to unlearn gendered expectations. I was so used to shame being used as a tool of conformation.

[@KaitlinGaspar]

I’m proud of you and rooting for you! you deserve to be free!!!! :D

[@makenzileg]

Haven't watched yet, but I completely agree. - a Black non-binary person :) Edit: Finally finished and still agree! Great discussion, Kim!

[@ryan_sadlerxoxo]

literally. shes always right

[@kaligirwanamahoro9921]

You're me.

[@anonymous2494]

Non binary isn’t real

[@anonymous2494]

@@makenzileg 1. I didn’t ask if you asked 2. You aren’t affirming me rn

[@possiblymaybe6711]

@@anonymous2494 u just came here to troll and idgi….. people will express themselves for rest of time it’s a fundamental aspect of being a human you will fail to stop it the same way everyone who tried failed before you.

[@reabetswebotlholo3057]

watching this makes me think how powerful Solange's "don't touch my hair" is

[@EspritsFantomes]

My nephew is now 7 and when he was a kid he would spend his time dancing he especially love female kpop group. Recently my sister played blackpink and he suddenly said "I'm a boy. boys don't dance". My sister looked at him told him it's not true, men/boys have the right to dance. He was shocked but happy, he stood up and danced. He wanted to dance. Then he started saying "boys can dance, boys can like pink" and more while dancing. It's so sad. I know it comes from my aunt and uncle who are really into stupid gender roles. Let that little boy enjoy lifz!

[@demilovatofaith]

Wow, european 1830s men saying Samoans need to cut their hair because that's what men do is funny considering in the late 17th and early 18th century it was considered manly to have long voluminous curly hair....clearly these men knew nothing of their forefathers fashion.....

[@HakeemIsMyWorld]

When I was in military service, this was also an issue. One girl I knew had to cut her locks. She was a great sailor and this is what they did to her. I was so mad!😡

[@lynzzzify]

i feel like i've consumed critiques of policing aesthetics under both white supremacy and heteronormativity individually but watching you weave them both together really underscores the point that it's really all connected!! such a great video. would love to read any book on aesthetics that you write in the future

[@broderick7932]

I would LOVE to see a video about the “Symbiotic relationship between Black Women & Black Gay Men” & also what happens when instead of that dynamic being harmonious, it instead becomes antagonistic & competitive [like Saucy Santana’s comments about what Black Women Learn & Gain From & how they Depend On Black Gay Men]. How this dynamic & these relationships can result in solidarity & healing or stand to perpetuate the social violences of queer antagonism & misogynoir. Contests of femininity & for Amorous Male Attention. & or Refuge from the brutalizations of Cis-Heteronormativity.

[@bmwjourdandunngoddess6024]

Lol, the way this message is victimizing Black Woman, completely ignoring the extreme homophobia and transphobia and internalized-white patriarchy is hilarious. And also ignored them stealing from BLK LGTBQ+ woman like the word Intersectionality. But y’all don’t wanna talk about that, do y’all?🤭 While we’re at it, we can expand this to other races too because it’s gone ignored far too long.

[@raplords00]

Oooohhhh the algorithm is FINALLY giving me that good shit. Thank you muchly for this gem of a deconstruction of gender hegemony 🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾

[@tfh5575]

lol @ founding fathers in their kitten heels. wigs with the ponytail, long jackets, tights…it’s giving founding muvas

[@Amnesiumm]

Thank you so so so so much for all that data you gathered about this, i especially loved learning about the *ACTUAL* ancestral gender customs of our brothers, sisters, and siblings of colour, Natives americans and Polynesians! this video was truly awesome! 100

[@SonOfIroh]

There's a concept called Male flight where men flee when women start doing. something it's basically similar to white flight

[@arasharfa]

Anyone who is interested in learning more about masculinity and its variants should read "Masculinities" by R W Connell

[@damaracarpenter8316]

KIm this is such an interesting topic! and important video. I was tearing up more than once. I have a weird anecdote to share that I think it relevant but I'm not sure how. Back in 2014 I hadn't yet fully began to transition so I was "male presenting" (though probably more accurately I was "androgynously" presenting, as I was really teetering on the edge of transitioning publicly) I worked at a deli in my rural Arkansas hometown of about 2,000 people, and on Halloween my boss confronted me saying that I needed to cut my shoulderish-length hair or I would be fired. So I started crying and my (two) coworkers started shutting down the deli and walked out taking me with them, saying to my boss, "if you're gonna be an a$$ we're leaving." So he followed us out and asked me what was going on and I said "I'm not a man, I'm a woman and I don't want to cut my hair" and he said "Ok, that's fine" and me and my coworkers went back to work after a very anticlimactic ordeal. IDK what that all means. Very interesting to me that this conservative southern man is more comfortable with the idea of a transwoman having long hair than a cis man. (and as an aside don't think he was that cool just because he let me stay, apparently after me he decided to be more strict about who was hired because I was such a scandal in the store and allegedly lost them business. D: )

[@domii3067]

Phenomenal job, Kim! As Black non-binary AMAB person I appreciated this breakdown from someone who doesn’t identify those ways but understands the policing of it all because of their perceived deviance from heteronormative hegemony. You explained things pretty much exactly how I feel these days. I would also add that I too grew up stirring the pot with questions for authority figures (to this day I might be considered irreverent). But when things don’t make sense I’m going to talk about it! ❤

[@sildiu]

You'd think we came out of the womb with pink ribbons and gum drops or racecars and mud on our hands as our "nature"

[@lousielouise8716]

These rigid rules also discriminate intersectionally against disabled people. Strict constructions of gender- especially masculinity- is impossible to adhere to for those of us without completely able bodies.

[@ChillingTales12]

Okay then don't

[@kp4508]

Ok I won't! -gets hate crimed. Thanks Karen!

[@jbell7105]

Didn’t even think of it this way.

[@BostonChattanooga]

Just absorbing and internalizing the message. Thanks Kim for always bringing insight on topics I never even thought about. ☺️

[@TeTaongaKorora]

22:00 another aspect of colonisation on us Pasifika and Māori- enforced gender binary. Fa’afafine and whakawahine were normal, accepted aspects of our societies, but Europeans spread the myth that we were “transing the youth” and families that didn’t have any daughters would force one son to live as a woman. Complete myth and was not the case, *but now it sometimes does happen and that is an accusation often thrown at whakawahine and fa’afafine that you’re just being forced into it.* Colonisation destroying everything

[@robertstanley9633]

This!!

[@yamkelagrey5892]

I am in South Africa clapping , I really love this video, been talking about this for the longest. Love how you articulate ideas/thoughs.

[@inathi1329]

Fellow South African here. So happy to know I'm not the only one who appreciates and engages with these conversations. It gives me hope💕💕

[@CasaDuroTinyHome]

Re. the counter culture segment, I found it interesting that you said in the 80s they fell back in line, because definitely in the metal sub-culture that was booming in the 80s, men were still wearing their hair long, and that signature look is still a fixture of the metal subculture to this day. What I find interesting about that though is it's still perceived as very masculine, even in glam rock where a lot of costuming that was taken directly from Queer communities, ie. black leather, spikes, BDSM influenced gear, etc. Dee Snider talked about this a lot in interviews, where he would be performing wearing fishnets and lace tops & makeup, and some biker dudes in the audience would start a fight with him after their set because of their disapproval of that kind of style. But there was this level of over-the-top hetero-normative masculinity that was performed to back up the aesthetic. In the Twister Sister movie, one of the most quoted lines was "Dress like women, talk like men". I find this subculture so fascinating because of all its hypocrisy and contradictions. You would think a subculture built on embracing androgyny would be culturally more accepting of LGBTQ folx & women, but historically there was still a lot of homophobia and misogyny and downright rejection of female artists in the genre. There's so much there to unpack.

[@robertstanley9633]

Thank you! In the Samoan culture, being Faafafine/( 3rd gender/nonbinary ) was highly respected in Samoa. A Faafafine (assigned male at birth but female and feminine presenting) carried out both male and female duties in the household and communities. It wasn't until colonizers came to the island and used religion to shame Faafafines for not fitting their ideologies of what a man or woman should be.

[@wizard101430]

I cant wait till your book about Aesthetics comes out 😆

[@jordansthoughts54]

Ohhh read the title and already liked. really excited about watching !! People should be able to present / express themselves however they feel comfortable & gender and the roles are socialized. Gender expectations are so toxic. All human beings should exist how they see fit ❤️

[@tomorrowilearned8471]

fun fact: Steve Jobs wore Issey Miyake turtlenecks....he was definitely an aesthete

[@notaburneraccount]

Gender is a scam...I keep saying this lol ...when I came to realize I'm agender, I felt free.

[@primppoutnycbytokyokho]

Hey Kim! The CROWN act has been doing great work regarding discrimination against natural hair ❤️

[@user-hl1ip7if9r]

Gender is a social constructed, and thus can be deconstructed. Ideas: -Use people's pronouns -Post your pronouns -Read and/or watch Judith Butler's gender theory Question everything.

[@NamhlaSithole]

One of my absolute favourite videos by you, Kim. This was truly a masterpiece 👌🏽

[@Grace_Zandile97]

" No one is free until we are all free" . I appreciated this message during 2020 BLM movement. When the emphasis was firstly focused on black men, then black women, then the Black LGBTQ community raised awareness on police brutality against black trans as well.

[@1LeeCarter]

Great video! From personal experience as a kid born in Texas during the 80s I see the gender policing across the board. It also happens within the gay community, the role playing of masc and fem roles can be exhausting. As a kid I was also heckled for having braids by teachers. True acceptance is what's needed. We all have masculine and feminine energy within us. I may be wrong but the Natives recognized up to 5 genders. Much love!xx

[@bmwjourdandunngoddess6024]

That also means we need to deconstruct how we see femininity and masculinity. Which means deconstruct white patriarchal views, racist views, and forced religious views, particularly Christianity.

[@gretchenbray2268]

I must be conservative

[@CRJpod]

Jaw DROPPING at workplaces REQUIRING makeup. But also, not surprised.

[@avangalea.1210]

I'm glad allies of the community are talking about gender too like this so that more people can comprehend someone who lives outside said gender binary! (I'm non-binary~)

[@moviesfromgermany]

Barbie is interesting to me not only because of the idealization of white womanhood, but also bc of the specific link to postwar German white womanhood. The German sexdoll that Barbie was based on was the comic figure "Lilli" which came out in 1952 only 7 years after the "downfall" of fascism. so when thinking about the many connections between white supremacy and heteronormativity, maybe its important that she originated as a white christian German ideal. at the same time in many ways the super feminized Lilli with many lovers was the opposite of the pragmatic aesthetic of the ideal hardworking and childbearing German woman during Nazi Germany. This pragmatic white christian German woman aesthetic is still eerily present today.

[@radio7970]

Political Aesthetics. Perfect. The topic of my MA thesis ❤

[@KiponiLui1]

The indoctrination they done to Polynesia played a big role to why colorism rampage the mind of the current settlers. The current corporate is Mormon and large Polynesia are migrated to the church that slowly move them to whiteness.

[@MarionHoney]

I can’t give this video enough thumbs up. Thank you.

[@arasharfa]

i would love to hear a whole video all about self surveillance!

[@juliettedemaso7588]

A trans girl (let’s say near and dear to me), who was not yet out or transitioned, freshman year of high school and showing exemplary potential for performing arts, was forced to cut her flaxen blonde hair short, and wear a traditional “men’s” business suit or be dropped from speech team. After qualifying for the most coveted events at 14 years old, also an AP student. This schools speech (forensics) team was one of the most celebrated and awarded in the state. The haircut/appearance obsessed coach and rules so overshadowed every other aspect, caused so much self consciousness, disphoria, distraction, and this was this child’s introduction to high school. I know I emphasized the whiteness of this child, this is not in any way shape of form to suggest it isn’t far far worse for racialized kids. Only to show how the astonishing and ridiculously manufactured wasp patriarchal post-war conditioning regarding gender, misogyny, race, are inextricably linked.

[@justinejustice_league1857]

It's not about the hair, it's about the clear oppressive state. The thing is young black youths are not supposed to graduate and certainly not excelling thier counterparts. All this over HAIR??..they were the ones who told US its JUST HAIR. Apparently not

[@Yngvolkayno]

Can't wait to see this, I'm sure you're gonna hit the nail on the head!

[@laexploradoraaaXD]

I highly encourage people to read ethnographies especially written by those from the culture about indigenous/First Nations people if they want to learn more. But yeah, if gender was this innate thing we wouldn't have to expend so much energy and if I'm going to expend energy, it's going to to be on the things I love, the things that bring me joy. I laughed when you said shout out to Avril but you're right. I think it's easy to forget how transgressive that was, wearing a tie.

[@Mariposa-11-2007]

As a transgender Texan viewer I sooooo appreciate your take!

[@ChillingTales12]

You sound so cliche

[@reabetswebotlholo3057]

I went to an all boys school, and our sister school (which was about 15 years old at the time) only added trousers to their uniform in like 2016

[@birdiewolf3497]

Just wanted to point out that after the residential school era the us government followed up with an 'adoption' era with native children in the 1950s to the 1970s.

[@giannibastien2867]

Gracing us with this on a Sunday night? Truly amazing. Will be listening to this as I get ready tmrw.

[@norikadolmy7274]

Isn't Jesus typically picture with long red or brown hair? Where does it say in the Bible that men have short hair? There were lots of periods in European history where men had fabulous, long and large hairstyles

[@DJMoiyMoiy]

1 Corinthians 11:15.

[@birdiewolf3497]

@@DJMoiyMoiy lol so Jesus himself ain't follow that rule?

[@DJMoiyMoiy]

@@birdiewolf3497 Those pictures in church aren't accurate.

[@birdiewolf3497]

@@DJMoiyMoiy I mean obviously. Jesus is not white. But it is funny that these people's images of their lord and savior has consistently been one with long hair even though long hair on men is frowned upon. A joke. Also there is a strong possibility what is constituted as long has changed over time. I mean these are arbitrary boundaries.

[@Mrballerize]

@@birdiewolf3497 I don't know about Jesus, but I know for sure Samson never followed that rule, as his strength came from not cutting his hair lol.

[@pleasedontyes]

Incredible and well-put researched video like always Kim, thank you so much for creating this! Even as someone who is very much not part of the gender binary and pangender I find myself falling back into these same conformities before realizing that, like you said, it’s pretty much all completely arbitrary.

[@onalos1271]

So glad someone is speaking out on this gender norm nonsense.

[@MrHootiedean]

Well said! This video spoke to me on a lot of levels. I am a cisgendered black gay xgener and wasn't even allowed pink icing on my birthday cake so this discussion really hit me in the feels. May I suggest Scared Straight: Why It's So Hard to Accept Gay People and Why It's So Hard to Be Human by Robert Minor. It goes even deeper and harder at the system of gender construction and gender oppression to our humanity. It was revelatory 20 years ago when I first heard him speak and it's even more relevant and essential now. It's hard for some people to even want to understand such concepts. I had someone tell me online during a debate where I was trying to defend transgendered people who told me they don't want to hear no science talk and then in the next breath said they don't want to hear about sociological conditioning either. All that leaves is bias, so I thank you for bringing it up and calling it out!

[@stealthis]

This is where the word ignorant should be really used. People confuse it for the term naive but ignorant means knowing you can do better and choosing not to. Naive is simply never being exposed to a certain concept.

[@jbell7105]

@@stealthis there’s also willful ignorance. This person debating had an idea but didn’t care to really know due to his or her bias

[@callme_burbu5976]

Christians talking about short hair is so ironic and they simultaneously talk about the story of Sampson and Delilah 🥴

[@TM-kn2gp]

As an agender person, I'm so excited you're talking about this

[@notaburneraccount]

Ayeee, fellow agender person here! 😁 I say gender is a scam like all the time

[@ChillingTales12]

Aren't you special

[@notaburneraccount]

@@ChillingTales12 so you woke up and chose to put someone else down? maybe you should reevaluate your life bruh

[@CRJpod]

@@notaburneraccount it's wild cause they're going around leaving negative replies on all the comments like......do you need a HUG??????

[@lachattenoir]

Hi sorry if this question sounds ignorant, but why do people identify as agender? I only ask because growing up I was lucky enough to not have to think about gender and neither did my friends. We were just people. When referring to someone as a man or woman, I just use that as a physical descriptor like hair colour or height. I don’t assume someone has more “masculine” or “feminine” traits. There was a time when sex and gender was starting to become a non issue and now I worry that we are putting people in boxes again. I think most people are agender in a sense.

[@mr.meatyispeak]

Something I never understood is how black people or other poc discriminate against lgbtq when we are all looked at as wrong for something we cannot change...my own black mom literally called ignorant and small minded for supporting lgbtq 😑

[@blump5080]

Have you ever been to a men's clothing store? The options are so incredibly dull and lifeless most of the time. Where is the colour? The print? The interesting silhouettes? I actually feel really bad for men who want to express themselves with more colour and print in their clothing. I recently bought a kilt for my boyfriend (I'm Scottish) and he loves it. I mean no wonder, the poor man has been stuck wearing nothing but trousers for the past 30 years

[@kaylan9547]

Speaking of the political context, "dreadlocks" are still very much so referred to as "dreadlocks" in the Caribbean... or I'll just speak for my Jamaican background... It's still an endearing and intentional and very much POLITICAL term of resistance as opposed to the ways in which dreadlocks have been significantly gutted (although never completely gutted, obviously) of their overt political context/symbolization as they are becoming more mainstreamed and done up "neatly," etc... here in the US.

[@AllTheArtsy]

Dress is one of the few areas of life where women "have it better" because the policing of dress when it comes to men is severe and strict. i think some men would literally break out in hives just to wear a normal polo shirt, if it's pink. That's how troubled they are about it. moreso anything more overtly feminized-- lace, floral, skirts, dresses-- nevermind that brocades and dresses were worn traditionally all over Europe and Asia for millennia beforehand.

[@starrr365]

I think it depends on specifically what you're talking about . Being "deviant" or androgynous in dress is definitely more policed for men in the modern era because proximity to femininity is looked down on. But women are still much more policed when it comes to their clothes' perceived level of sexuality or modesty and the perceived effort put into their appearance

[@Yaurii]

Eh. Even women are ostracized for being overtly feminine & dressing trad feminine. Especially black women. Which is why the whole pickme/ not like other girls phenomena exist.

[@possiblymaybe6711]

@@starrr365 yeah idek why people care to place one over the other it’s all so connected

[@marissawilson4644]

Women do not have it better. Just look at school dress codes or how women are going viral for having curves which makes the clothes more fitted.

[@possiblymaybe6711]

@@marissawilson4644 I’m a trans girl and I agree 100%. The biggest hurdle for transitioning for me was knowing how hard things would become as a girl. My life had been utter torment since as far as I can remember but I knew if I just identified as a man instead of happening to be who I am, things could be so simple. The battles men face are honestly something I think would be manageable but now as a girl this shit is so stifling and cut throat it’s on a whole other level. Sure being trans adds a few more complications for me but even if I were cis the pressure on women is soul crushing

[@CollaborativeDog]

Love discussions about aesthetics and sociopolitical norms. I did laugh out loud picturing the Christian church declaring short hair is Biblical while picturing all the "hippie Jesus" artwork that is seen as iconic.

[@twistysunshine]

Simone du Bouvoir argues the opposite of what you did, actually, that gender exists only to create the category of "woman" and that That is the strict category you cannot leave. For example, if you are woman you must like high heels and pink and want to be married and want to have kids and not like sex and not want a career. Men can do anything else, EXCEPT what has already been categorized as woman. I don't know that i agree with her on this fully, i don't think this theory can fully describe the nuances of the way patriarchy and binary gender is upheld in modern western society. And it can't describe the kind of modern issues you get fron toxic masculinity very well, I think. However, ever since I heard that theory, I started being able to articulate issues I'd been seeing or had that I couldn't fully articulate before, so I found some use in it. So when I realized I was nonbinary, almost immediately I was not taken seriously. It was all "but you like to wear colors" and "you like skirts". This is from progressive family members- the others acted more negatively. So I realized like okay, if I want the good people in my life to take me seriously and refer to me the way I want to be referred to, i need to change things. So I started only seeking out masculine clothes, because masculine made me "neutral" (how does that work? How do you go masc and get read as neutral- other than signs associated with femininity overpowering all else?). I started only wearing monotone (which i don't like that much tbh) and i would get more people acting unsure what my gender was. I had to have short hair obvs (something that I actually like thankfully). But the thing that eventually made my progressive family members come around was expressing dysphoria in my chest. As soon as I was suggesting that I would be happier without breasts, I could be "not a woman" in their eyes. Even though these are just- they're just random fat that my body had the hormones to make. Their are women who never get very large breasts, never get any at all, and they're v much women. Womanhood is not defined by the Tit. But talking about its removal was the only way for people to begin referring to me correctly- the thing I really wanted, the thing really causing me distress. A few years later I have settled into myself. My gender is mine, I don't need to perform it to stupid binary standards so I can believe myself. A little femininity in my dress is not gonna erase any masculinity, kill any neutrality. And i figured out it wasn't really boobs I was unhappy about. I did find out i want bottom surgery, but that's a whole other story with other reasoning. I just think its interesting, that at the very least when I was first transitioning, Simone du Bouvoir's theory was very much a rule of my existence

[@ForHarriet619]

Well Simone de Beauvoir was a white woman speaking about white women and white men in the 1940s. That's not the apex of our theoretical discussions.

[@twistysunshine]

@@ForHarriet619 oh yeah, absolutely. Definitely think her writing isn't providing everything, just was talking about how that thought process she had did interact w my transness in an interesting way, even if it is not where conversation should stop

[@isaacroot5459]

Native Americans actually have a very WEIRD history with Mormonism and their settler colonialism as well as Polynesian ppl, surrounding dress codes and such (this is long sry) I remember seeing photos of my grandma’s family. There were some where two young Native American children were in the photo. (My family is white and Mormon.) they were dressed like the other white children. The native girl had pigtails and bows, and a soft and modest frilled dress. The little boy had a short bowl-cut and was wearing a typical Mormon boy church attire. I had never heard of these children. Turns out, the Mormon church used to have a program where they would have families foster a Native American child. These were Natives who would already be in foster care. (But we know that CPS and them were snatching those children even when it wasn’t best for them.) Some back story: Mormons believe Native Americans descend from a people called the Lamanites, detailed in their book. Long story short, they formed when two brothers in the first family that came to America became sinners. They were cursed with dark skin for their iniquity and fought with the white people (nephites) until they killed all them. What was left became the Native Americans. For a long time, the church had a mission of saving the ‘lamanites,’ bringing them back to God. 12 tribes of Israel shit, bring back the clan in the final days before judgement day. Bla bla. This was part of the effort. It went away quietly I believe in the 70s or 80s. Nobody talks about it anymore! There was a man in my ward when I went to church. He was Native American. I remember one time he spoke and talked about himself as if he was a Lamanite, and how he wanted to make up for that by being extra pious. HORRIFYING!! Only slightly related I guess, but I started thinking about that in the middle of the video. Mormons are an extreme example of whiteness and dress codes. They are meticulous about dressing a certain way so people identify you as Mormon - as perfect hardworking honest white ppl doing service and embodying tbe best of America. Really, the founder of that church was really fascinated by the Wild West and the Native Americans. He fantasized about that. Mormons were considered heathens and cultists when they first started, so they moved to Utah, colonized Native American land, and underwent a century long process of rebranding themselves as part of the Christian “Silent Majority” during the 60s/70s when hippies and counter culture became a huge thing. Still, to this day, at BYU you cannot have facial hair, long hair, can’t wear flip flops, can’t wear shorts below the knees like it’s all of this and moreee

[@elenakalliste]

Thank you so much for EXPLICITLY saying that all of the different forms of policing/discrimination are all part of the same system and therefore should all be equally important to fight against, even when you are not an explicit victim of a particular tentacle of white supremacy/patriarchy/christianity

[@Okra_winfrey]

I LOVED Alok's explanation. That makes so much sense.

[@kaligirwanamahoro9921]

Love the long format Kim! Keep going

[@damienjohnson1739]

I love this conversation. As a fashion grad, history of costume is still to this day one of my favorite subjects to discuss. I always laugh when ppl gender police individuals articles of clothing without understand the history of clothing in general. Style and asethics are all made up and are forever changing. Lol

[@inathi1329]

I would be so interested to hear you talk about the hypersexualization of human bodies in general. I've observed that black bodies tend to be more hyperdexualized compared to white bodies. Just the basic way in which male and especially female bodies aren't allowed to exist without being made into sexual objects. Like how come breasts and butts are treated as sexual objects and not just body parts that perform a bodily function and that's it? And then maybe in the context of sx then they also have the added layer of being sexual?

[@dot9523]

Speaking of the way black bodies are viewed compared to white bodies, I’d be interested in hearing Kim talk about how fatphobia in the west has its origins in anti-blackness

[@theemanuella9456]

@@dot9523 not every black person is fat

[@anthrogal19]

Awesome video! Well explained all around. Comparing cultures (through time) makes it so clear that it's all arbitrary. And it should be freeing to know that.

[@arasharfa]

people treat the object of their desire as sacred. when they hear an explanation for their desire they feel it becomes less real, or that they become less authentic. Because they identify with it. their sense of self is coupled with it.

[@mauve9266]

The beginning is kind of giving Miranda’s Cerulean monologue from Devil wears Prada

[@michaelharrismuabeauty4279]

You did such a great job on this video per usual! So thought provoking and eye opening.

[@kaskus7147]

Doesn't Jesus have long flowing hair in every painting of him? Isn't he also wearing what is effectively a dress as well? The Bible says nothing about how men and women are meant to dress other than to be modest. If your "savior" couldn't even attend your school or church or whatever because of the way he looks that is how I know you are a liar. If you are willing to lie about that, then what else are you willing to lie about. There is a great kids movie called Bruno from 2000 that is a great example of this type of thing. Synopsis: While competing in advancing levels of the Catholic school spelling bee, Bruno decides to start wearing dresses. He wears them as a source of empowerment as well as feeling the need to express himself.

[@juuuuuuuuuunie]

I've been sitting patiently for this one 🥺 - a non binary doll (amab)

[@EWagner818]

When you said it reminds you of HBCUs I said yesssss and they do LOVE to tussle 🤣

[@ladybuglove61201]

Please correct the "Native American " because they were here before it was deemed "America". I live in Arizona and the ones I've come in contact to want to be called indigenous people.