Gender Transition for Children DEBATE / Allie Stuckey vs Desmond Fambrini

[@Saltysarah32]

This is what a conversation should look like. No yelling, cussing each other out, or walking away enemies. Very civil!

[@MO-xm1kj]

If we could only get the politicians to follow in their footsteps.

[@leftwinghorror]

I don't believe the trans advocate would be civil of the trans activists were running society. I believe it's a ruse. The trans activist has to play the ball where it lies. If there was a societal shift that muzzled Allie Beth Stuckey on grounds that her views "harmful to marginalized peoples", it's very hard to imagine this trans advocate would speak up for her right to express her views.

[@anapadilla7193]

Right! Absolutely loved it

[@VibinJivin]

yes...........I was pleasantly surprised I didn't want to punch my screen .............Ellen is a master hostess and both guests were great.

[@notinadequate2119]

Him saying it’s racist for a white person to “feel” black, but acting like he cannot make the connection between misogyny and a man “feeling” like a woman is mind blowing.

[@JoyInTheSun]

lol That is mind-blowing. What is also mind-blowing is that he hasn't called himself racist for "speaking" and "sounding" like a white girl.

[@r-platt]

A white person can identify _with_ the black culture. He cannot identify as a black person. Part of the problem is with the word "feel". It encompasses both emotions and identity traits. Where emotions change, identity traits are static. Ever see the impossible triangle? It's an optical illusion created by changing 1 corner. Once you spot the error, the illusion is broken. The statement "a man feeling like a woman" is using "feeling" to refer to an identity trait. It's a verbal illusion that makes it sound like trans women are actually men pretending to be women. And that's the error. If you transplant a trans woman's brain into a female body, she'd be just another girl. Thus a *man* cannot "feel" like a woman but millions of trans women do. (Conversely if you transplant a man's brain into a female body, he'll experience the most horrific gender dysphoria that will eventually drive him to self harm.)

[@milpormilunmillon]

I bet Desmond can actually see the issue, but refuses to admit it bc it would shatter the narrative

[@jessicakeith8719]

@@milpormilunmillonI felt this the entire podcast so far (I’m half way through) his questions and certain things he says almost leads you to believe he might not fully believe everything he says and has been told his whole life.

[@KellyNora-p8q]

Seems more realistic to feel black.

[@rubykrueger2297]

While I disagree on just about everything he says, I commend Desmond for having the guts and composure to have these conversations and remain respectful.

[@racheljane_]

Agreed. This is probably the only time I have seen someone of his ideological worldview be able to have a cordial conversation and not be constantly condescending, and at some point lose their composure entirely. He still used a TON of anecdote for his arguments though. But it was refreshing to hear him put forth his ideas with his demeanour.

[@Aweirdmushroom96]

So many of these people aren’t bad people, they really think they’re doing good.

[@rubykrueger2297]

@@racheljane_ So true. He is a breath of fresh air. Hopefully more take after his example.

[@rubykrueger2297]

⁠@@Aweirdmushroom96 Exactly! It’s such a shame that the wacky minority are the face of that side.

[@katnikkerkayla]

@@rubykrueger2297and yet you just sat here calling them “him” so where’s the respect exactly? lol

[@cellospot]

I'm a detransitioner, went through hormone therapy, had top surgery, and lived as the opposite sex for 7 years. Thank God I came out of that, although I have to deal with the physical ramifications for the rest of my life. From my experience and all that I've seen, I will forever fight against the trans ideology.

[@diiandraa_]

God Bless you ❤

[@codyharney2997]

Thank you for your openness. We all need the truth to be championed at all times.

[@stephenk5455]

Sorry you went through what sounds traumatic. But you can’t decide for all what’s best for them, just because it didn’t work out for you

[@cmary718]

@@stephenk5455 bingo

[@moonstar9559]

I hope you were not forced to detransition because of your environment. There are a lot of people who get bullied or harassed by family and such until they have no choice but to conform to the will of others.

[@jessschliebe26]

You can see on Desmond that he's so afraid of offending anyone, he is constantly qualifying or editing what he says, and it's got him running in circles and tied up in knots, whereas Allie, although respectful, is able to just state the truth and leave it there. Desmond, I appreciate your heart and I will be praying for you 💗

[@mimi2613]

Alot of contradictions

[@Didleeios88]

Can we point out that Desmond was raised by two moms. Not only was he steeped in this ideology from birth, he also has his family relationships riding on whether or not he stays in the fold. This is really sad. I think we now have the results in on the gay parent's experiment...

[@angeloc7486]

@@Didleeios88that’s a odd statement. Straight conservative families also have gay children.

[@Didleeios88]

@@angeloc7486 yeah there's obviously more going on than just gay parent's making their kids gay. It can be both nature and nurture. I seem to see an outsized amount of very extreme gay/trans coming from single sex parents. Worth looking into the stats

[@TrixieMatteI]

we'll see you in hell ♥

[@david8905]

The Dartmouth graduate and TikTok personality that Allie Beth is up against here is a HIGHLY SKILLED, IDEOLOGICALLY BOUND, gender activist out of the bay area. Allie is not only holding her own against the fluid fast-talker, she is winning with common sense AND factual responses. Thank you Allie for standing up for children and reality.

[@annabyrne4662]

Allie Beth is very educated and very smart. I wouldn’t discount her just because she isn’t a Dartmouth graduate

[@SquirtlePower809]

Absolutely! There is not a single person that can successfully defend gender ideology. I've never seen it done. In fact they ALWAYS end up arguing against themselves because it simply doesn't make sense. You can try to force logic into an illogical concept, but it inevitably will fall apart.

[@betsywilkerson]

Kudos for the civil conversation. Allie Beth does an excellent job here. Also, wish I had a dollar for every time Desmond said “right?” because I’d have some serious cash. 😉

[@krys1823]

@@annabyrne4662 educated how? She has a degree in communications. And her answer to just about everything was unequivocally no. Which to me means she has no interest in researching the subject matter beyond her own moral beliefs. I don’t see how one can be educated on a subject when they’re so closed minded.

[@alohafueled]

Watched this guy get schooled and humbled on another interview where he put himself and ego ahead of the well being of his students and being respectful of their parents.

[@Jordanklabe7771]

Desmond is truly such a lovely person. Completely disagree with him but so refreshed by his openness, kindness, and humility.

[@Phoebe907]

Totally agree!

[@jamestrotter3162]

There's nothing "lovely" about perversion.

[@pclare7477]

And one of the only voices who actually is bold enough to step up to argue his side in a such a respectful manner.

[@texvirgo9847]

I adore him

[@mattyh2464]

I feel like if more non-binary were like Desmond this issue wouldn't be as volatile as what its become

[@LUVBUG24K]

I cannot believe our society has even gotten to this point where we are even having this conversation…..

[@ninjawizard3865]

It all.leads back to the UN...

[@ckrigill3844]

Exactly

[@KatMoore-ih6mw]

Believe it because Christians telling young people that their same sex attraction is wrong is partially to blame. Consider stopping that and magically Christian trans kids will disappear and emerge as simply gay 💖

[@SquirtlePower809]

Yeah same. Except I did see it coming slowly, but surely years ago. And I knew it would reach a certain "critical mass" point where it would then accelerate exponentially overnight (and it did) but no one would listen to me years ago. This ALL stems from academia and the invasion of Marxism and postmodern theory in higher education. Once they had control of our KNOWLEDGE production, they were able to affect every sphere of public life and society.

[@MommaDx5]

Right!!! Disturbing and just disgusting!!!! Satan has people so deceived!!!!

[@countchocula5379]

I want an “unequivocally no” t-shirt.

[@saphirarose5866]

I'll take mine on a mug :D

[@veronicafruitfulltv5641]

Meee toooo😂

[@blueskyz8097]

It'll go good with MY LIVE ROUNDS MATTER 💪🏾 🇺🇸 trucker Hat

[@GabrielleSalazar-p7z]

Someone make it happen! 😅

[@jessicap9802]

Thank you Allie for representing a Biblical world view in a respectful manner!

[@lysaalonso4653]

I’m a conservative Christian woman but this is an amazing conversation and both were very respectful and very informative as to why they think what they do. Our world would be a better place if we could have conversations just like this.

[@madelineeathorne8561]

I agree.

[@Noah4evaa]

Not really, no matter how eloquently and intellectually he presents his arguments, his platform is EVIL, and he is masterful at his presentation, Making him even more dangerous. You shouldn’t give evil a platform.

[@followerofchrist3125]

@@Noah4evaaNo wonder six kids were pulled out of his class. Just because he talks nice does not mean his ideas are nice as well.

[@jmk576]

@@followerofchrist3125he is not always this nice and level headed. I’ve seen him acting very rude and pushy. I would not let my child near a person who teaches this.

[@KimberlyLBrown]

No. The truth needs to be told. We don't need conversations we need to reveal the truth as a Christian.

[@LizB1101]

As a Christian conservative woman, I deeply appreciated both sides being willing to come to the table and have this conversation.

[@dawsons9876]

Same!!❤

[@KimberlyCaroAlves]

“Unequivocally No.” 👌🏽

[@Motherdharma]

“I don’t agree with you but I get it“ was my favorite

[@TheKatarinaGiselle]

@@Motherdharmamine too!

[@marykathrynholt]

Allie shut him down, loved it

[@marykathrynholt]

@@Karli_Kristine I believe she won the debate.

[@marykathrynholt]

@@Karli_Kristine hey, look at the original comment “unequivocally no”.

[@HaileysHealth]

lol “Maybe not everyone’s focus is fertility” But a child who doesn’t care about fertility could become an adult that DOES care about fertility! Most kids don’t care about fertility or having babies lol

[@bandbporter]

Yeah this was disingenuous and Allie didn’t have time to address it

[@shanmulford54]

Exactly! Your focus as a child will not be the same as your focus when you’re an adult

[@ksbeauty85]

27:16 "She is scientifically correct, I do have to agree." No kidding idiot 🙄 And isn't your side all about tHe sCiEnCe? Mr. "I'm just sOoOo impressed with my Dartmouth degree" Desmond doesn't have a leg to stand on (no pun intended).

[@ADanZLife]

transgender in the 80s and 90s was completely different than it is today because activists have turned it into a political movement for power and control and greedy dirtbags just want to make money off vulnerable individuals. There's a reason transsexuals do not want to be associated with the LGBTQ+ mafia. Just because people make up new words and call it a new gender does not mean there are more than 2 genders. Trans does not even exist without the binary.

[@Disgruntled_Canadian]

I know right. He’s a teacher he should understand how a child’s mind works. Most kids can’t even imagine ever wanting kids, yet most grow up and want them.

[@kevinsiegel4436]

This has to be the most polite debate I’ve ever seen

[@Phoebe907]

I don’t agree with Desmond’s viewpoint, but I was really impressed with how respectful and well articulated he is. He and Allie both did an amazing job. This debate was awesome!!

[@peaceful525]

He isn't articulate. Tik Tok has ruined our ability to discern proper articulation. Go back and count the number of times he says "right."

[@julianabenavides4878]

Yes he was hard to follow and his way of articulating arguments made them fall short against the wonderfully articulate opponent. It honestly gave me the vibe that he is confused in his own ideology as well. I have never had a teacher who speaks the way he does, right?

[@karenhall4645]

Every time he tries to compare changing genders to something else like driving and such, all of those things are minor compared to the subject at hand.

[@DeannaWillistonOFS]

The 13 year old panicking at the changes of puberty is not unusual. This doesn’t mean a person is transgender and telling a child it is, is undue influence.

[@tamom64]

I certainly didn't enjoy puberty. Who wants to bleed every month and have cramps and sore breasts. But I never thought hey I don't have to be female. I was! End of story. Having 2 daughters was the best thing in my life! Breast feeding and being mother was something I'd never give up or want to change.

[@rachelwhite3286]

Exactly and that’s why it’s so dangerous that being uncomfortable during puberty = the kid is trans. When in reality feeling uncomfortable in your body during puberty is totally normal

[@HaileysHealth]

Yeah. I actually think it’s damaging to our society that kids can now choose to stop puberty. Some things in life are hard, and that’s just how it should be. We shouldn’t be making EVERYTHING easier. We need to go through hard things to get through life!

[@dynamitesparkles1457]

​@@HaileysHealthWhy do we need to go through hard things to get through in life tho? Hard times will exist regardless, but why from a fundamental standpoint do we need harm times when hards times usually bring trauma and PTSD?

[@joeypchajek]

​@@dynamitesparkles1457You literally can't avoid going through traumatic times, it's not possible and delusional to try to. As far as PTSD, some form of it too is inevitable. The question is how to deal, what is your mindset, your worldview, what reality do you stay anchored in. Who/what do you have as a support system? How do you support yourself?

[@britne1830]

10000000% on Allie's side. While it's not the same, I remember 13 years ago when I first became a die hard vegan and I got it tattooed on my skin because "I was in it for life". I was so passionate and set that I was going to be vegan for the rest of my life. I'm no longer vegan. The only repercussion I personally face is a tattoo that no longer represents me. I think of trans kids who make these life altering decisions that were just as passionate and PERMANENTLY change their bodies at a young age....nothing in this life is guaranteed - we can all have a shift in perspective and not all decisions are an "oopsie I changed my mind".

[@NivesScott]

😂 i tattooed Darwin’s first sketch of his tree of life on my arm 15 years ago because “there’s no way I would ever be anything other than an atheist” and here we are!

[@k.h.7575]

That's such a good point :) . Yes and I think most people have tried something similar. A tattoo is scary enough, but changing our sex is another level. The personality will go through changes and get temporary ideas ESPECIALLY when u r young and u r discovering yourself, which is healthy and natural. Its the grown ups who need to stop blowing this up, and make it a reality, without them it wouldn't happen. Healthy boundaries, emotional support and mental guidance is what they need instead. Unfortunately not all grown ups are reliable in this way.

[@Blessthelordohmysoul333]

Lol 😆 ❤good example, honestly.

[@bethjohnson6832]

Such a good example. I did the same in 2016 btw 😂 I am still vegan, but I totally empathise with your point because if I didn't have this tattoo... I certainly would not get it now!

[@homesteadinthesuburbs5092]

Such a good point. And for the record, adults make decisions we regret all the time. Without Christ, we are ALL so lost.

[@leahdynes_lighterdays]

I came out as trans ftm in 2015 (23 years old), and somewhere along the way, began to identify as 'non-binary' because I didn't feel like I 'fit' into what it means to be a woman or a man, while also feeling like I had characteristics of both. I also was aware that in trying to present myself as more masculine (wearing things like cargo pants, or oversized clothing), it was primarily A. a way of hiding my body, and B. more importantly, a perceived means of safety from unwanted male sexual attention. I say this because like many young women, I started being sexualized for my body shortly after I hit puberty (for a lot of women, it's much younger than that). So I essentially associated femininity with lack of safety, as a result, didn't want to 'look' like a girl. It's only through being married to an incredible man and coming to Faith in God, that I'm able to embrace my femininity, understanding that it's not, in fact, a 'threat' to my safety, but a celebration of Who God Created Me To Be and understanding that my husband would go to the ends of the earth to protect me and would never intentionally/with malice hurt me. In my Faith, I have found these two things to be true: First, "Trauma tells women that femininity isn't safe. God tells women that femininity is beautiful and to be cherished." Second, "Being sexualized all your life, you come to believe that being attractive is unsafe. But you also bec ome accustomed to it and believe your sexuality is all you have to offer and all that's valuable about you. It's only through healing in God that I've been able to accept my femininity and embrace it, in the safety of God's love and protection from His grace, including bringing my husband into my life." I think the most tragic and heartbreaking aspect of all of this with kids transitioning and the rapid incline of absolutely unnecessary/elective surgical procedures - is the underpinning notion that We as humans are customizable to Our own desires, means, and financial abilities. I genuinely feel like the rapid incline of elective cosmetic procedures/body modifications has an inherent dehumanizing undertone in saying "We aren't good enough *as is*, and we need 'this procedure' or 'that surgery' to be better." Call me crazy, and not even speaking as a Believer right now, but the only alternative to loving yourself as you are is NOT surgically changing what you don't like. It's *so* invasive, the risks are often not worth it, there's often maintenance needed for some procedures to 'keep them up', and I personally just feel like we've become so passive about medicalizing our human existence to the point that getting a surgical procedure done is as blasé as online shopping. To Desmond's point at 56:40 on Allie's comment of men and women complementing each other: My husband is *very* masculine without a lot of 'stereotypically' masculine traits, I'm quite feminine without most of 'stereotypically' feminine traits - *yet* we still complement each other beautifully. Not because we fit in the stereotypical presentations of what it means to be a man or a woman, but because fundamentally, he is a man and I am a woman; therefore, we inherently complement each other. We don't need a new label to define how we're different, we just Are wonderfully and beautifully Made As We Are.

[@AllieBethStuckey]

Thank you so much for sharing. Praise God.

[@limbo232]

Wow, thank you for sharing. What a beautiful testimony.

[@leahdynes_lighterdays]

@@limbo232 You are abundantly welcome. God has blessed me in ways that I become aware of every day, in that this story isn't my only testimony, or even my *main* testimony - it's simply the most relevant to the video. I appreciate your comment. ❤

[@leahdynes_lighterdays]

@@AllieBethStuckey thank you for having this conversation, it's such an important one! I don't have anything really of a social media/online presence, but if you're open to it, I'd love to chat with you to share more aspects of how God has transformed my life - that fortunately for me, aren't limited to the topic of this video.

[@marebear09]

Thank you for sharing! Rosaria Butterfield talked about this in her recent book: Five Lies of Our Anti-Christian Age.

[@josephamberproctor4803]

“I hear what you’re saying and it’s factually accurate. I just don’t agree.” Bingo. Truth is truth. But we humans too often choose to let our feelings lead us, regardless of reality.

[@madisonjulian4382]

Do I agree with Desmond? Not in the slightest. HOWEVER, this was the most respectful debate I feel like I've ever witnessed and have much more respect for both sides than I ever have before. I have followed Allie for years and love her, but this debate was amazing and I genuinely finally understand a little more about what others think, even if I don't agree.

[@GratiaPrima_]

Children cannot consent, period. And parents don’t have any right to consent for them to harmful things. Rather, Parents have the responsibility to help their kids thrive in the world by accepting reality.

[@tobeymickelson1299]

Right on!

[@forTehMemes]

that's a hard concept for libs. children don't even know what color the sky is yet somehow a child can decided if he/she wants to transition lmao? i don't care if an adult transitions but no child should know what that even is

[@clarakittmer7376]

Remember they don’t just wake up and get the surgery’s one day. They have to speak to multiple specialists and doctors and get a lot of opinions.

[@GratiaPrima_]

@user-vn6xo2tc9r more than this type. Yea. But no, not really.

[@ashleyholder2218]

@@clarakittmer7376depends on where they go. And age of course. Hearing many detransitioner’s stories, several claim to not have had much guidance or informed consent.

[@Michelle-vv9lk]

Desmond lies. You don’t have to be a right wing Christian to realise gender ideology is bad. I’m left wing British and I’ve been following this topic for years. It’s an ideology that has gripped so many people that it’s mind boggling they can’t see the harm it causes to women and children. Thankfully the tide is turning, especially here in the UK

[@codyharney2997]

As well as males. It literally harms everyone outside their ideology and they dont care. It's their way or we are bigots

[@KoiWrez]

sadly ur a bad left winger then. Stop infiltrating our spaces!

[@sekziijocii]

I feel like the foundation of his comments is this: “I agree with you, but I don’t know what to do with myself now and my situation. I don’t fit in any binaries and I don’t know what to do. What should I do?” He keeps asking her “what should I do?” Over and over in so many different ways. He believes her and is going through radical revelations in the moment about the truth of his identity but he doesn’t know what to do with it. I really hope that she can speak to him off camera and support him.

[@KMBVD]

I noticed the same thing. He said things like “what would you do if you were my mother”? along with many other “what should I do” scenarios. I definetly believe this conversation was a deep revelation to him.

[@codyharney2997]

Definitely picked up on the confusion that is present in so many of the ideology. He was genuinely confused, learning new facts and perspectives, and causing him to question himself and his motives up til now. They are lost and just want help but fight anyone with logic

[@angeloc7486]

It’s not that deep. Hé is a teacher. This is his aprouch to open the the conversation further.

[@Marielater]

@@angeloc7486I agree with this, also just strikes me as a people pleaser, from a people pleaser hahaha.

[@hollyblair5778]

Why can't you just be an androgynous boy? Or a "tomboy" girl. I think about David Bowie, Prince, KD Lang. I don't understand why it has to be an entire identity.

[@dom1161]

I’m much more aligned with Allie morally and politically, but I’ve followed Desmond on TikTok for years. He always came across very genuine and I appreciate that. Also, he doesn’t put down people he disagrees with.

[@theellenfisherpodcast]

that's why I picked him! Desmond is so genuine and kind, and Allie is too!

[@TheKatarinaGiselle]

Same!! Followed him since 2020 and he is a rare gem of a human being and I'm glad he is a teacher/ and I don't say that about many people on the left!

[@jes6427]

I disagree with nearly everything Desmond says, yet find him a pleasant person to listen to debate, hes so kind and positive

[@TheKatarinaGiselle]

@@jes6427 I only got half way through (saving it for another day) but there was actually one thing I kind of agreed with him on and that was the laser hair removal. Perhaps it's because I'm a woman that has always dealt with unwanted hair on my chin esp and lip (lip is easier to deal with though) but it affects me every single day. And while I did try to see Allie's perspective, I do also think his parents weren't the type of liberal manipulators we see to day. I think the adults around him cared about his independent thinking and I think they also knew him and knew from an early age who he was and trusted that at 16, he was sure about wanting to never have to deal with facial hair. Because most boys are EXCITED to gain their facial hair. And the thicker and darker it is, the better they feel. I have a thyroid problem and other hormonal issues and autoimmune diseases- but I am a woman and my skin was not meant for facial hair! It honestly is such a burden. And for all we know, many more effemenent gay men may have certain hormonal issues which does the opposite and effects them in a way where their _skin_ is morelike a woman's, and shaving it hurts like it does for me..and it just feels WRONG. Idk how or what things may effect a gay man (in the biological sense in relation to the body) but these are very real things to consider scientifically. I think about this because I was always a "tok boy" even though I always looked very femenine, but I always wondered if that affected why I was attracted to both boys and girls. As as I got older and my health problems got worse (and symptoms like the facial hair got worse) I always wondered if therw was a direct correlation. But at the end of the day- for the majority of people, that correlation doesn't matter and they just want a solution so they can feel their best self and not have something making it harder to leave their home everyday. So while I am just over half way through- that is the one thing I agreed with him on, and I also want to add that I do think things like that are very individual based. And nobody knows ones kids as much as their parents..the unfortunate part is we can never know if ones parents are sociopaths or manipulative or...you catch my drift. So that's where things like this do get touchy- but I also saw where he was coming from in that..if he hadn't had his parents- he could have rebled SO MUCH HARDER and not thought "I need my facial hair gone" and instead gone straight for the "I AM TRANS AND NEED TO CHANGE EVERYTHING!" But that is a hypothetical and one he has probably mulled over many times. The fact is- he wasn't born into that type of family and clearly had great influences because otherwise he wouldn't be able to sit here and have such an understanding and kind discussion despite their very different opinions. I just hope he continues to speak with conservatives (and more gay conservatives!!) I'd like to see him chat with Michael Knowles too, but I just thought of about 3-4 gay conservative men whom I would LOVE to see him debate/talk to! I hope he continues doing more podcasts!

[@TheKatarinaGiselle]

@@jes6427 my bad for writing a novel! 😂 It's the ad talking!

[@MaiaPoet]

Hi Ellen, I’d love to speak to you. I’m a 24 year old detransitioner. I I identified as trans for half of my life. I somehow managed to avoid medical harm, except for 7 years of breast binding. I moved to the Middle East in order to transition, and lived among Palestinian Muslims and Orthodox Jews where no one knew I was female. I appreciate your calling out of logical fallacies and the incredible lack of evidence base.

[@Hey_im_Marcy]

Wait you didn't medically transition and identified as a man without gender dysphoria and only binded are you sure you don't just have body dismorphia with your breasts also the middle east to my knowledge actually depends also where you go doesn't allow transitioning so how did you transition other than just bind because you don't have to be trans to bind what else did you do? (Also I'm a trans woman has been waiting literally years just to get seen by an endocrinologist and I'm an adult the barriers are ridiculous and should be easier but due to people literally not liking trans people it's hard for me to just stay alive at this point)

[@Mojojojo85757]

@@Hey_im_Marcyfor one thing, from my understanding of the liberal gender ideology perspective, you would be out of line telling this person they aren’t trans. How dare you assume their experience right? Who are you to say who is and isn’t trans? I was under the impression, from the trans community, that if you say you’re trans, you’re trans. Period end of discussion…. Right? Besides that wait lists aren’t long bc “people don’t like trans people” 🙄 they’re long because there are more referrals than discharges and hospitals don’t have enough trained staff to keep up. That’s according to every single source I could find online. I understand you’re frustrated but I don’t think accusing other people and taking it out on them is going to make your wait time any shorter …

[@moshiachgirlie]

I saw your interview with Buck Angel and it was great!!!! Keep doing you חיים שלי

[@SquirtlePower809]

​@@Hey_im_Marcy yeah I'm sorry, but it's sooooooo lazy to just do the cliche "everyone hates trans people" stuff. Like, come on. The fact is the vast majority of people had NO PROBLEM with trans people UNTIL the gender woke warriors started getting super extreme and pushed people way too far. So yeah, now people are very critical and cautious about gender ideology, but that doesn't mean they "hate them". Myself for example, my BEST friend identifies as trans and my cousin identifies as trans-- however I don't even believe in transgenderism. That doesn't mean I hate them lolz. I just believe it's a false concept and is really just the result of mental health issues. Also, I'm super curious about your specific situation because from literally EVERY story and Stat I've read-- the medical transitioning occurs insanely fast and without any barriers or guardrails.

[@ysf-d9i]

why in the world would a trans person move to highly religious areas?

[@heathermcdill7697]

Ellen is trying to set the internet on fire and I’m here for it 😅 🔥

[@dg3798]

His cutesy attitude is very off-putting. He clearly wasn't ready for Allie Beth. She was polite, empathetic, and to the point. A perfect example of a real woman.

[@bandbporter]

Yes, clear that what usually works for him, the whole “yes, and” approach, being very agreeable while saying “I don’t agree with that at all”, was foiled by Allie Beth and her absolute genius level mind and memory. Blessed by God for this moment in time

[@Alohi-G]

Okay cause I was searching for this because I thought I was crazy 😅

[@InayahBlack]

“cutesy attitude” is the perfect description and 100% agree with your comment.

[@susiewoodford2047]

I agree. I found his overly cheerful and constantly complimenting her disingenuous and frankly scary.

[@user-bx4ti6ig3i]

​@@susiewoodford2047this! I 💯% agree with your comment.

[@волк-ы1ш]

Imagine having a master's in gender studies. Homeschool, homeschool, homeschool.

[@authorlindsaygibson]

Right? I can’t believe that’s even a topic let alone a whole degree

[@lbelsick2689]

Yes! Definitely homeschool.

[@rachela4071]

What the hell lol

[@santiagosss]

Gender studies that actually do not have any single biology course in their programs.

[@MettlebyAbbyy]

What do they spend all that time learning?

[@griselortiz-howell4287]

Omg! CHILDREN SHOULD ABSOLUTELY NOT BE ALLOWED TO ALTER THEIR BODIES!!!

[@Hey_im_Marcy]

Exactly puberty blockers for all minors

[@paulan7218]

@@Hey_im_Marcy puberty blockers have been known to take away fertility permanently. No child should be on puberty blockers. The puberty blockers used on children were originally created to chemically castrate sex offenders. This is not something we should be giving children.

[@jacksonmcnuggets7488]

Not even adults should alter their bodies but ya you do you boo

[@steventalik4782]

@@jacksonmcnuggets7488 I have to disagree with that. As an adult, you have the right to do whatever you want with your body. No one should control what you can and cannot do with it.

[@galacsucc630]

They do that all the time, it's called puberty

[@wb5408]

"Why can't we just call them what they want to be called and let them figure it out?" Because love rejoices in the Truth.

[@mndprcvl]

I really really respect these two for having such an incredibly respectful debate in which they honored each other despite their opposite viewpoints. We’ve never needed this example more.

[@lucasthesatilliteguy]

"Right?,Right?Right?,Right? Right?,Right?Right? Right?" WRONG!!!!!!!

[@Laura_and_Chai]

😂😂😂 my exact thoughts

[@kittylover4974]

Hahahah his “right right right” drove me nuts lol

[@Bsavage2672]

And "omg I love that"

[@BenRebekah]

I think he was trying to convince himself... wonder how many times he said it in this convo

[@catherineciesla5787]

The “right” that we so often hear any more is LITERALLY my biggest pet peeve!!!!!

[@maritzah.4039]

Feel like the Holy Spirit was with Ally while she was talking. She was articulate and did not veer from the truth of God. She also was not emotional and rude about anything, but had self-control and respect for the person in front of her because she knows they are made in the image of God and they are loved by God. So inspiring wow

[@rvastrik]

I totally agree Allie Beth. It is morally and ethically wrong to interfere with a person's healthy body and developing psyche. Not everything that can be done in theory needs to be done by a person.

[@madelineeathorne8561]

Absolutely

[@winterwood7985]

Someone who suffers dysphoria everyday will likely not have a healthy psyche, and chances are they could become suicidal, that’s just what the data says. Hormones can help with a psyche that is dealing with dysphoria. If hormones are restricted for people with a developing psyche, which would be people until the age of 25 or older, then we also need to ban most antidepressants, anti anxiety meds and stimulants, because of their possible influence on someone’s psyche. But doing that would increase suffering of people who need those medications during a certain time period. It’s the same case with hrt and puberty blockers.

[@fhadekhemmy]

​@@winterwood7985 You may have a point but in reality, how many people who transition or "treat" their dysphoria this way get better after doing it? If anything it gets worse in many cases.

[@sashabenoit1518]

​@@winterwood7985 That's what horribly biased and ideologically influenced data says. It's not based on actual facts. You should really read the WPATH files that were recently released. The top "experts" and Doctors were exposed for medical malpractice and were caught admitting to lying and completely making up a lot of the data and common talking points that are in favor of gender affirming care. The files stated that we do not have sufficient evidence that treating dysphoria with G.A.C. is an effective method and to the contrary, the studies conducted actually showed that there was little to no improvement in 90% of their trans patient's mental health and that many showed sui¢idal ideation AFTER transition with high rates of regrets and detransition. It was also found that in the large majority of children, their dysphoria actually subsides AFTER going through puberty. Additionally, all of the studies that claim that G.A.C. is safe and effective were not conducted in a proper manner and doesn't even come close to meeting the scientific standards for practicing Medicine. Not only do these studies not meet the set required standards but they were also done incorrectly. The studies were all conducted on a far too small number of people in the groups and they followed up with these people to ask if they were happy with their transition only a couple of times for just the first 3-6 months, for the most part, with some up to a year. Obviously, people are much more likely to be happy with their choice in the beginning, when everything is still fresh and new and exciting before the honeymoon phase wears off and reality sets back in. And the other studies, that directly contradict these and were actually done properly, clearly shows that their data is incorrect and they are an unreliable source. On top of the WPATH files, we have all of the leading Northern European Countries that have been the trailblazers of trans care and transitions for the past several decades, including for minors, and that the US points to as evidence to back their claims in favor of G.A.C., are now all walking back on their positions on G.A.C. and acknowledging the serious flaws in the data. Unfortunately, despite the release of the truth behind these studies and the fact that all of the leading Countries are now reversing on the issue, the US has doubled down on their approval of G.A.C. and are actively trying to suppress information that goes against it, even from our own top Medical experts and highly respected professionals in the field. Please look into some of the testimonies from these experts and the actual Doctors and former staff from our Gender Clinics across the Country. They all have the same story of patients, many of whom are minors, that go through these Clinics without any question or pushback. It's standard practice to just immediately affirm their self diagnosis, typically walking out with a prescription in hand for hormones after just 20-30 minutes of their first consult. Doctors and staff are not allowed to question the patients and there's almost never a mental health analysis to actually determine a medical diagnosis for dysphoria and address any potential other conditions or contributing factors such as Autism, BPD, BiPolar Disorder, PTSD/CPTSD, childhood trauma and/or history of se×ual a$$ault, of which a disproportionately high number of these patients commonly suffer from one or more of. Additionally, the majority of these Clinics do not require a patient to actually be suffering from dysphoria in order to start medical intervention, even in regards to surgical procedures. Many have been reported to go as far as coaching people, especially minors, what to say and even directly tell them to actually lie about having dysphoria after they've admitted to the Clinic's social worker that they do not experience dysphoria, among other things that should automatically disqualify them from G.A.C. I can tell that your hearts in the right place and that you genuinely care about these people and only want the best for them to live happy and fulfilling lives. That's why I strongly implore you to do some research and listen to patients who have gone through the process, as well as people from the field who have left due to the severe dishonesty and dangerous practices taking place. It's a real eye opener and truly shocking just how much the public has been misled on this issue. I used to be just like you, advocating for these people to get the proper care, which I truly believed was G.A.C. but after everything I've seen and learned, I can no longer support that. At least not without the proper safety measures in place with lots of therapy, making the treatment of mental health the absolute top priority and first method of treatment. I also no longer believe that minors can give informed consent to medical intervention, especially after hearing several Medical professionals and patients state that they cannot meaningfully consent. Doctors and staff, as well as the patients themselves, have admitted to recognizing that the majority of these minors truly do not understand what they are consenting to, nor do they have a realistic grasp on what transitioning actually is. There are many minors that actually believe that they are changing se×es and that transitioning will literally make the opposite se×, completely indistinguishable from the natural biological se× they wish to become. There are even reports from patients who were told that this was the case from their actual Doctors at these Clinics. Unfortunately, these Doctors know the truth but because they are ideologically captured, they are determined to go against the facts to get the outcome they desire. Not to mention the very real financial motive/incentive behind all of this. There are Medical conferences that you can go watch where the spokesperson/salesman is pitching G.A.C. and related surgical devices and equipment for these procedures, as well as Pharmaceuticals, to a room full of Surgeons, Doctors, and other people in the field and their sole focus is on the massive profits made off of these surgeries, that they sell as packages, and they literally talk about the patients by means of how much they are worth financially if they get the "whole package", which is upwards of $100k per patient. That being said, I still do believe that a very small portion of the population genuinely have dysphoria and would actually benefit from a transition but I cannot support minors. It's just too risky and doesn't make logical sense to allow them to make such a decision that young.

[@sashabenoit1518]

​@@winterwood7985 That's what horribly biased and ideologically influenced data says. It's not based on actual facts. You should really read the WPATH files that were recently released. The top "experts" and Doctors were exposed for medical malpractice and were caught admitting to lying and completely making up a lot of the data and common talking points that are in favor of gender affirming care. The files stated that we do not have sufficient evidence that treating dysphoria with G.A.C. is an effective method and to the contrary, the studies conducted actually showed that there was little to no improvement in 90% of their trans patient's mental health and that many showed sui¢idal ideation AFTER transition with high rates of regrets and detransition. It was also found that in the large majority of children, their dysphoria actually subsides AFTER going through puberty. Additionally, all of the studies that claim that G.A.C. is safe and effective were not conducted in a proper manner and doesn't even come close to meeting the scientific standards for practicing Medicine. Not only do these studies not meet the set required standards but they were also done incorrectly. The studies were all conducted on a far too small number of people in the groups and they followed up with these people to ask if they were happy with their transition only a couple of times for just the first 3-6 months, for the most part, with some up to a year. Obviously, people are much more likely to be happy with their choice in the beginning, when everything is still fresh and new and exciting before the honeymoon phase wears off and reality sets back in. And the other studies, that directly contradict these and were actually done properly, clearly shows that their data is incorrect and they are an unreliable source. On top of the WPATH files, we have all of the leading Northern European Countries that have been the trailblazers of trans care and transitions for the past several decades, including for minors, and that the US points to as evidence to back their claims in favor of G.A.C., are now all walking back on their positions on G.A.C. and acknowledging the serious flaws in the data. Unfortunately, despite the release of the truth behind these studies and the fact that all of the leading Countries are now reversing on the issue, the US has doubled down on their approval of G.A.C. and are actively trying to suppress information that goes against it, even from our own top Medical experts and highly respected professionals in the field. Please look into some of the testimonies from these experts and the actual Doctors and former staff from our Gender Clinics across the Country. They all have the same story of patients, many of whom are minors, that go through these Clinics without any question or pushback. It's standard practice to just immediately affirm their self diagnosis, typically walking out with a prescription in hand for hormones after just 20-30 minutes of their first consult. Doctors and staff are not allowed to question the patients and there's almost never a mental health analysis to actually determine a medical diagnosis for dysphoria and address any potential other conditions or contributing factors such as Autism, BPD, BiPolar Disorder, PTSD/CPTSD, childhood trauma and/or history of se×ual a$$ault, of which a disproportionately high number of these patients commonly suffer from one or more of. Additionally, the majority of these Clinics do not require a patient to actually be suffering from dysphoria in order to start medical intervention, even in regards to surgical procedures. Many have been reported to go as far as coaching people, especially minors, what to say and even directly tell them to actually lie about having dysphoria after they've admitted to the Clinic's social worker that they do not experience dysphoria, among other things that should automatically disqualify them from G.A.C. I can tell that your hearts in the right place and that you genuinely care about these people and only want the best for them to live happy and fulfilling lives. That's why I strongly implore you to do some research and listen to patients who have gone through the process, as well as people from the field who have left due to the severe dishonesty and dangerous practices taking place. It's a real eye opener and truly shocking just how much the public has been misled on this issue. I used to be just like you, advocating for these people to get the proper care, which I truly believed was G.A.C. but after everything I've seen and learned, I can no longer support that. At least not without the proper safety measures in place with lots of therapy, making the treatment of mental health the absolute top priority and first method of treatment. I also no longer believe that minors can give informed consent to medical intervention, especially after hearing several Medical professionals and patients state that they cannot meaningfully consent. Doctors and staff, as well as the patients themselves, have admitted to recognizing that the majority of these minors truly do not understand what they are consenting to, nor do they have a realistic grasp on what transitioning actually is. There are many minors that actually believe that they are changing se×es and that transitioning will literally make the opposite se×, completely indistinguishable from the natural biological se× they wish to become. There are even reports from patients who were told that this was the case from their actual Doctors at these Clinics. Unfortunately, these Doctors know the truth but because they are ideologically captured, they are determined to go against the facts to get the outcome they desire. Not to mention the very real financial motive/incentive behind all of this. There are Medical conferences that you can go watch where the spokesperson/salesman is pitching G.A.C. and related surgical devices and equipment for these procedures, as well as Pharmaceuticals, to a room full of Surgeons, Doctors, and other people in the field and their sole focus is on the massive profits made off of these surgeries, that they sell as packages, and they literally talk about the patients by means of how much they are worth financially if they get the "whole package", which is upwards of $100k per patient. That being said, I still do believe that a very small portion of the population genuinely have dysphoria and would actually benefit from a transition but I cannot support minors. It's just too risky and doesn't make logical sense to allow them to make such a decision that young.

[@jenniferbrown9301]

While I don’t agree with Desmond, I love his positive and upbeat personality. This was a great conversation. If all people with conflicting beliefs would speak this respectfully to one another, we would live in a much better world.

[@ninjawizard3865]

Would we really?

[@SpiritStoneWarrior94-yx3gs]

Desmond was extremely respectful, and a great guest to have on the channel. Even though he doesnt agree with all the things allie and myself agree with, he was respectful enough to speak his mind while accepting others may not have the same thoughts on things as he does.

[@meagenkleiner]

Has ANYONE else noticed how much young people who "debate" say "right..." While they are talking CONSTANTLY like Desmond does? To me, it's almost like they are trying to convince themselves by constantly saying it. I find it really annoying

[@Alohi-G]

Lack of confidence , without someone to confirm they don’t really feel confident in it .

[@suzzannarogers]

I was thinking the same thing! Even with the high held hands or very enthusiastic hand movements. I wonder if it's a psychological word that he think may get the other person to believe. Beautiful discussion on both sides either way.

[@laurengiannopoulos9504]

It's not only him, there's many other people who say "right" when trying to make a point. I had a college professor who was constantly saying "right" while lecturing and I took it to be that he was not so much trying to convince us as he was telling us that what he was saying was right.

[@lorirad]

It’s the new “like”

[@kot.7717]

Right??? Barf

[@cadafamily]

Allie is a gem, and we are blessed to have a reasonable, caring, intelligent voice like hers to articulate the conservative, biblical viewpoint.

[@lindsaychristian4151]

Wow. Just wow. I so admire the respect these 2 had with each-other in their speech. So gracious, listening to each other, no naming calling, stuck to the issues, didn’t take it personally, found commonality, and no one cut each other off. I wish all debates were like this.

[@slimjadeyyy]

Yes 🙌🏼

[@Mrs.CGraves]

Absolutely NO. Teach them to love and accept themselves. It may hurt not having “celebration and affirmation” on gender but you will be saving their lives and so much pain later.

[@Hey_im_Marcy]

Yes dead children are better than having any trans kids because that's what happens to kids when forced to conform to heteronormativity literally only reason I'm still here after years of trying to get hrt is that I have a appointment with an endocrinologist in December also forcing a kid to conform is not loving and accepting you're literally saying what homophobic parents did to their kids if they were gay and forced them into conversion therapy

[@Lydiajean1313]

💯

[@Jme2692]

Sure.. but also I think if we didn't have so much pressure and expectation on gender stereotypes there wouldn't be as big of an issue. we'd feel more comfortable loving ourselves if we weren't expected to be a certain way. Everyone has masculine AND feminine traits/hormones.

[@Mrs.CGraves]

@@Jme2692 99.9% of Parents LOVE AND SUPPORT their children. They don’t care about expression, or gender roles, We are Gen Z for goodness sakes, the majority of us Protested and Voted for ALL the Gay rights that people enjoy today. We protested and voted for equality, supported grassroots orgs, anything bucking “tradition” A very anti-establishment Generation. BUT, Medically transitioning a minor is appalling and against everything that’s true in the world. Kids go thru phases, discovery, switch back and forth, and should be doing all that. They also MUST have time to develop their sexuality. That too takes TIME. So making an assumption Parents won’t be supportive and a teacher should impose themselves in any type of role like that is UNACCEPTABLE . Just teach. Stay out of the personal lives of the kids. If something concerning is shared TELL TNE PARENT, give resources and let them navigate it. As it’s always been done. And stop assuming ALL parents are enemies

[@saltandsriracha]

​@@Jme2692I agree. At certain points in history, men wore makeup, dresses, and heels. We were doing away with many gender stereotypes in the 90s and early 2000s. Somehow, it's made a massive comeback within the left ideology. That if you like pink, you're a girl. I remember the interview Daniel Radcliffe had with a group of trans kids. This one boy kept saying "I was born a boy so I'm SUPPOSED to like cars, I'm SUPPOSED to like baseball... etc but I don't, so I'm a girl!" (maybe the wrong words but the gist is there, you can watch it) I couldn't help but feel so sorry for this little boy, that he's been lied to. I don't think generalized stereotypes are going anywhere, but this hyperfocus on them is detrimental.

[@Bree3355]

I love how respectful both of these parties were. As a neuroscientist though I was cringing at all of the scientifically inaccurate/misleading statements he made. He regularly misrepresented basic biology. I also wouldn’t be surprised if Desmond has never actually read any of the peer reviewed studies he referenced because he was quoting pop sci headlines which contradict the actual conclusions of the studies.

[@qwnpngwn672]

Wow, that's actually critical because he appeals to his authority of that subject multiples times. Personally i agree 100 pct with Allie, though when Desmond brought up a piece of information based on neuroscience, I had to at least think okay well he must be right.

[@DogDocLou]

Desmond should read the Cass Report…

[@jeffreywp]

I wasn’t surprised by this as Desmond is an educator and education continues to appeal to debunked theories (e.g., learning styles, etc.). Still appreciated the respectful dialogue my.

[@michaelschmidt6536]

Please provide the accurate studies so we all can be better informed. Thank you for commenting! Praying for humanity to understand why we are on this earth and perfectly created just as we are.

[@Yahsbsuq]

I cringe every time he brings up his education to make a point. If your point is good and you can back it up correctly, there’s no reason to point to your education. I bet it works on very ignorant people though

[@ninakamenic3679]

As the conversation progresses, Desmond's body language gets more defensive, self-protective. That's because he's subconsciously realizing that his ideology isn't rooted in reality and that his "arguments" are circular, illogical, nonsensical, and immature.

[@bread2246]

I took a completely different conclusion. If anything it seemed like she was making an emotional conversation vs a factual one. If anything he slightly changed my opinion.

[@anewagora]

I am a detrans woman. I've been going through states of shock and grief processing what's happened to me. There is an in-depth worldview for trans people, we have our own ideas about what we are and what medical treatments are doing. It's hard to explain to people the regret and sorrow and confusion we face when our understanding of what's happened to us changes. I never participated that much in LGBT culture and always disagreed with Social Justice. But I was trans and believed I was a man with a rare disorder. It's not a good time, it's not all positive like it's portrayed. It's absolute hell and torture that separates you from most people and otherizes you. A sense of being deformed and warped follows you around. Medical transition is seen as a set of medical treatments, but it's more accurately described as radical body modification, and it comes with lifelong consequences. At the end of the day, being trans was lonely and alienating. It was a disorder that followed me everywhere. And most of us can't fathom the idea of NOT transitioning as a path to healing. It's extremely hard to face.

[@saltandsriracha]

God bless you in your journey and thank you for sharing.

[@holliewood5]

God still has a plan for your life! I pray that you can let Jesus come into your deepest pain and show you his love. He wants to be Lord of your life and can help you.

[@RS-zj2sg]

I’m sorry for you’re sorrows. Thank you for sharing😊

[@sierrabartlett8882]

Thank you for sharing your story! I hope you are doing alright :)

[@molly864-u8i]

what do you mean when you say you've "always disagreed with social justice"?

[@haroldkeigh9937]

So over-the-top smooth, so evasive, sneaky, and yet so insistent. With this type of snake oil salesmen in schools, no wonder the ideology has spread like wildfire among our children.

[@ADanZLife]

"many studies show that school-based sex education simply does not work." "substantial research shows that adolescents’ most effective sex educators are their parents." - Michael Castleman M.A. What Good Is School-Based Sex Education?

[@rubykrueger2297]

Good on you Ellen for having this conversation. Allie Beth is awesome.

[@thesagetraveler7649]

It wasn't really a debate, it was more of just a conversation. Desmond didn't really argue his case, he just asked a lot of questions. Still interesting to listen to though.

[@ADanZLife]

Desmond seems like the kind of person who just wants to please everyone and be liked by everyone. I know this because I have a similar personality. I avoid conflict.

[@jamiewilliams9033]

I love that Desmond respects the individual rights of parents with their children, whether or not he agrees with them. That is gold! It's is so rare. Too many people are trying to parent other people's children.

[@MelissaCaskey-wm7zp]

Yes after seeing so many woke teachers wanting to talk to their students about their own identity. I appreciated him saying that he does not involve that in his education of kids

[@ADanZLife]

Fun fact: sex ed in school has accomplished nothing and research has proven that the best sex educators are parents. I have 3 sisters. The oldest got pregnant before graduating high school. The other has two kids with two different men. And the last one has sex with so many different men she has no idea who the father is. If my parents were more involved and didn't just say 'Don't have sex until marriage", then perhaps things would have turned out differently.

[@Daniandtheearth]

This makes me want to be so much more polite and respectful when I disagree.

[@texasteen]

No one is tracking these "kids" later. How would we have accurate "statistics".

[@shannonbuonsanti3940]

This weekend my 11-yr-old son and I went to an amusement park. Halfway through we met a young, black lesbian on a ride. All three of us hung out the rest of the day and had fantastic conversations about the state of the world and LGBTQ issues. I learned so much from her and value the openness we had towards one another. Very different lives, but still loving. This conversation is powerful because of its civility. Thank you!

[@mimi2613]

U just met this one random woman at an amusement park all by herself????

[@thetruthhurts599]

Ellen, best moderator ever. Send piers this recording so he can see how it's done. Ellen, please try to get candace owens on your podcast. The topic can be about her latest social media post about banning porn.

[@Ididntwantayoutubehandl]

This was amazing. I'm with Allie 110% but Desmond my respect goes to you as well. You came and you were respectful. That's huge, we need these conversations to help our children, adults and all of our futures.

[@slimjadeyyy]

👏🏼

[@jamie-leewatson3565]

I’ve been thinking on this over night & I just want to add to the conversation… we are a conservative Christian family and my boys have no struggle with their identity. When they were young, they would dress up in their sisters skirts and dresses for fun, they would wear nail polish (because what kid wouldn’t want fun colours on their nails), they even had their own baby dolls that they would care for (& even make believe breast feed) while I cared for the babies. As recently as this week my 13 year old son was playing with my makeup with his sisters. This doesn’t make them any less of a Boy. They don’t think that because they sometimes do more “feminine” things that they must question their identity.

[@lydiah7184]

Yes I love this!!! Same here. My son is 8 with an older and younger sister. He’ll paint his nails with his sisters sometimes and used to wear dresses sometimes to play dress up 😂

[@sharamadsen3080]

I'm so thankful that, when I struggled with anorexia, my psychologist endeavoured to have my mind align with the truth of what is healthy, instead of affirming an unhealthy body standard. Sure, there are rare conditions where people are born without body fat. That doesn't mean that trying to be that way when you have a healthy body isn't damaging. My message to Desmond is to embrace the body God gave you. It's not shameful to be a man. If he has experienced childhood abuse I would recommend Christian counselling to help him come to terms with it and move past it.

[@peaceloveskillet]

"not everyone is focused on fertility" well DUH when you're a teen or a preteen most kids aren't gonna be thinking about that. again, frontal lobe isn't developed enough to consider long term consequences

[@HaileysHealth]

That’s what I said too! Most pre-teens and teens say “Ewww. Kids.” It’s almost like trendy to say that. lol But they can grow up to want kids!

[@Velaya818]

Read the W-Path files. You'll see that they know exactly what they're doing.

[@NivesScott]

Allie is so eloquent in her arguments. What a wonderful episode of the new season Ellen, thank you!

[@abletobeconfused]

This idea that “I can only be my true self” through a lifelong dependence on hyper invasive, ultra modern *exogenous* medications or surgeries is absurd on its face

[@chloecigarroa9847]

💯

[@jevheyden]

The sunglasses spiel in the first 1 minute is proof enough and the irony is almost humorous. "Look at what I have to go through in the name of denying truth.

[@andrewvelazquez7179]

I want to say that as someone who can see both sides of the argument here, I am astounded at how respectful and well-spoken each of these individuals are in the current day and age we live in. Bravo!

[@ellechanelly407]

This was hard to get through. I only stayed for Alley. He is throwing around unfounded statistics, he’s all over the place and I think a lot of people are confusing respect with being condescending. He’s extremely condescending and was looking for ways to trip Alley up. All he could do was keep asking her questions because there is no way to justify his beliefs. I’m thankful he was able to have this conversation with Alley though. The seed has been planted, another will water, and God will give the increase. I pray the best for him; which is salvation, healing, & deliverance.

[@leespice4843]

it’s because the conversation was going to be mild so basically it was tactics to open the mind to see ally’s views! another’s words christian’s aren’t very open minding compared to liberals!

[@aaricalovezaragosa]

So glad you’re back with these moderated debates, Ellen. You do a wonderful job at planting the right seeds to your audience with conversations that people are afraid to disagree on! This series opened the door for me to think more critically. Lila Rose changed my mind and I am now radically pro-life because of her debate on your podcast! That was just one of the seeds that led me down the path to surrender my life and my will to Christ. You are doing the Lord’s work, indeed.

[@michaiahs]

I get very stressed out by debates but this one was lovely! So peaceful and respectful.

[@aleefulks7662]

AMAZING conversation Allie, the Holy Spirit was guiding you through this all! May He change the heart of Desmond and lead to repentance and a life full of the one and only REAL truth!

[@TheGr8erPurpose]

Amen! I’m praying for Desmond for that transformation that *only* Jesus can do in us and through us🤍 praying for Allie too! That she’d continue to be led and that God would continue giving her opportunities to glorify Him in these spaces, such mighty obedience from Allie!

[@brietteboss5489]

This makes me emotional to see two people have an open debate without hate and they both talk so openly about their beliefs. I wish everyone could speak this way to each other.

[@ava.noelle]

Me too!

[@jacicole5882]

In the beginning when they were talking about suicide I wish Allie would’ve brought up the point that these studies are not following people for years after transitioning. Suicide is HIGHEST 10 years post transition, but the studies will not follow these people that far because they know what they’ll find.

[@TheHcjfctc]

This! I had a friend send me all these studies about lowered suicidality, but all was only within a year or two except one and that one went to 6 years, I think, and the suicidality started to go up after a few years.

[@jenniferp1826]

It is soooo rare to see long conversations like this and our society needs way more of it!

[@holleyesterline]

Can we just give a round of applause for the respect and humbleness from these two? A conversation that was needed and was done so so well 👏👏👏

[@mjzamora_]

Here for Allie! I’m shocked that this is even a debate, but here we are…

[@druscillahenry3224]

Am shocked too..

[@bethanngibb]

I never want to hear the word "right" again

[@tina505505]

😂😂😂

[@anne.ominous]

LOL

[@lorirad]

Right?

[@wholefoodhealthandfitness718]

I’ve never heard a more respectful conversation between to very different beliefs and opinions. Thank you so much to all 3 of you for having the courage to speak on this very important and controversial subject. Our children need to be protected!

[@melindatagg]

What I don't understand is when people claim their 3, 4, 5 year olds are trans.... a child that age doesn't not really know. And it can be normal to be curious about pretending, interested in exploring a range of different things.

[@MISNM0]

How don't they when socialization starts for many at a gender reveal party and certainly for almost everyone, "It's a boy or girl" at birth? I'm SO sick of dumb people being loud.

[@victorygarden556]

Those people are just narcissists. Statistically that’s impossible, especially with multiple kids like that, but it’s not statistically impossible that’s a narcissist making their kid do that “or else”.

[@Sillygoose2004]

Kids should have a right to be kids and not be preyed upon by the pharmaceutical company's that wants to make lifetime customers that have to buy hormones for the rest of their lives.

[@ninjawizard3865]

They are preyed upon by worse people.

[@Sillygoose2004]

​@@ninjawizard3865 well most people aren't going to stand back and not say anything. If we don't stand up for kids who will. They are children until age 18 then they can do what they want.

[@ninjawizard3865]

@@Sillygoose2004 I agree 100%

[@Sillygoose2004]

So we can agree that a child should have to be an adult to make these decisions then.

[@ninjawizard3865]

@@Sillygoose2004 100%.

[@GeorgiaChapa]

I love Allie! She doesn’t even know how much she’s discipled and mentored me. Queen

[@annam753]

same❤️

[@GodisTrueLove0321]

Same!

[@yeseniaherrera5873]

Same ❤

[@julia_gib3300]

2:21:06 Men wore makeup and dresses historically NOT with the intent of attempting to look like women. It was culturally appropriate. The reason a man wearing a dress today is controversial is because it is not culturally appropriate or normal.

[@alexispestorio1600]

Also, wearing a dress as a man today doesn't mean you are a woman.. it just means you like to dress feminine and go against traditional fashion. A logical person would know its abnormal to go against cultural norms and know the implications of that.

[@JoyNoelle.]

I love how polite, and open minded this man is. And I pray that the truth Allie Beth shared gives light, and hope into his soul ❤

[@kaitl7474]

Really loved this conversation! Big Relata-gal over here! Loved how respectful this debate/conversation was.

[@laurissaluanne8337]

Absolutely. This is how to talk about things. Well done to them both.

[@perspe_tive]

After reading In Order to Live by Yeonmi Park, listening to him talk about how tortured he was just to grow a beard really shows how entitled our country is.

[@KD-rs6xx]

good contrast

[@AnnSmajstrla]

I understand what you mean, but IMO the “people have it worse elsewhere so you can’t complain” argument isn’t great. He was being honest about an experience he had and he wasn’t trying to say that he has it worse than people in North Korea.

[@perspe_tive]

@@AnnSmajstrla Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs shows this (if you need food, which is bottom of the pyramid/ hierarchy, you could care less about self-actualization, the top of the pyramid) We will always find ways to suffer, yet that’s why I find building perspective from realities such as Yeonmi’s is valuable, or we’re just creating unnecessary suffering.

[@AnnSmajstrla]

@@perspe_tive I see what you mean. Also spell check butchered my comment - don’t know what happened there hehe

[@SarymaryQuiteContrary]

With all due respect, I find this to be a terrible comment. We get no where by belittling people's emotional experience of the world and by comparing one another. God has created everyone differently and declared judgment of one another as a sin. Even for non believers, the scientific data very clearly shows that neglect or shaming of negative emotions has an adverse effect to the original intent. I'd love for this to stop once and for all. Greetings from Germany

[@marssionary]

There's not "that many" but each one of them is becoming a patient for life. That's a LOT of money.

[@Helixal]

My wife put me onto this podcast. Wow. Incredible and both speakers did a great job not putting their identity into the discussion. I subscribed.

[@HarukoD]

His "Right? Right?" drove me crazy 😅😅

[@vixen7774]

Just admit you just don’t like him that’s why you are not pivking

[@JoyNoelle.]

Right?

[@bandbporter]

inSANE

[@lydiah7184]

Same it’s hard to listen because of it to be honest.

[@MicahAtkinson]

Woah! Just saw this uploaded. Super hype. (Welcome back, Ellen!)

[@nourtohme4998]

It's like watching logic vs nonsense... Even their demeanors are total opposites, the guy seems to be "performing" his identity and I was exhausted for him...

[@gostepsenglish4431]

It's what happens when you base your entire ideology on feelings.

[@krys1823]

I think it’s called having a personality. Nothing religious based is logical.

[@karinelaxa959]

Gender & trans theory and ideology are pseudo religious and very cult-like.

[@nourtohme4998]

@@krys1823 if you truly believe anything he said was "logical"... You're so faaaar beyond logic, deep into the land of ideological brainwashing. Seek true wisdom please! P. S: He doesn't have a personality, he is possessed by a fake one. :)

[@WhitDough]

This is a pretty jolly interview/debate. I enjoy listening to these two! Very energetic.

[@MindfulnessMama]

How have I never heard of your podcast before ellen?!?!? Omg this is amazing! I love the respectful conversation on super hard topics. Definitely will be checking out your other videos!

[@lucylledanyelle8923]

I’m a conservative Christian libertarian and grew up with a bisexual mother with both sets of parents being married and divorced 3 times. Due to my background, I’ve grown up being friends and relatives with numerous gay/trans people in my life. We love each other and actually have had many conversations similar to this one. In my experience, gay/trans people (95%) are respectful, loving, amazing humans that still love and respect me for who I am (and vice versa) regardless of the issues we disagree on, be it sexuality, politics, religion, etc. This was very refreshing because the loud minority from the LGBT side are drowning out the rest of their community and making all of them seem crazy and the loud minority on the “Christian” (said with quotations because I also don’t believe the majority of people who consider themselves Christians are true believers of the actual God of the Bible) side are making the rest of us seem like hateful, narcissistic bigots when we really aren’t. To disagree does not equal hate or whatever phobia or ism that is hurled at us.

[@paulajames6149]

Wow, I am shocked I made it through the video. Only because of Allie. Desmond seems nice but he def was all over the place and seemed to affirm all perspectives. To me that says that somewhere he is not being honest and direct. Grateful for this conversation.

[@ninjawizard3865]

It was hard to get through.

[@ktlovelivelfe]

I agree he seems very naive, and highly agreeable rather than stating his truthful honest answers. Just wanting to be liked and putting sensitivity to people's feelings over honesty. I do think he is a very respectful and nice person but not all the way truthful and contradicted himself throughout the debate. I also don't think he is even set on his convictions all the way and still evolving with where he stands on many things.

[@slimjadeyyy]

Thank you Ellen for these discussions, always! You provide such a safe space for two opposing ideas to discuss and have discourse. If only we could do this on a larger scale and among our peers. I hope the comments stay respectful ❤

[@simeonthress5614]

Both speakers were very respectful. I am impressed at Desmond’s humility and logical acceptance of facts and data. Both folks have a different premise on gender so it won’t allow them to see eye to eye. But both are for the health and well being of children.

[@Ta-da32]

I'd be so concerned if my son had teachers like Desmond. You know they won't be able to keep their extremely harmful politics out of the classroom and that they would have an agenda to influence students to their ideology.

[@hippo-hu5yy]

love love love! I usually have to click off conversations like this early because the conflict stresses me out but the mutual respect and constructive conversation as a result is sooo refreshing

[@DuckyWild]

I haven't watched this yet. Usually this whole conversation comes down to the truth. We have never lied to people so much, or forced people to lie so much. To me if something is based on a lie it is evil.

[@BizzymomStudio]

Totally agree. It is evil because it makes it “normal” to lie and that is the problem…. Straight from the pit.

[@JD1886]

Gotta say I have a lot of respect for Desmond in this conversation as opposed to the Jubilee panel debate. Mind you, that debate was comically tailored and couched. I even felt Desmond shared fair points that were worth considering. Im glad Desmond was able to participate in a good conversation and I learned from both sides. While I may disagree with Desmond far more, I actually heard them out and legitimately considered the views behind it. PS, I was a bit annoyed the approval grab of constant "I love what you said" or "you're right!" or similar replies entering sharing Desmonds points. Allie however, went directly into replies without doing the same. Allie is far more confident and that speaks volumes.

[@justmy2cents652]

I'm shocked how many people fall for these techniques "I love what you said" and so on and read him as supernice, respectful, open. He uses classical techniques of narcissists and I'm guessing he is just one of those Cluster B persons (narcissistic/histrionic(!)) - a confused gay boy, totally self-indulged and obsessed with looks and labels. I mean, how many "treatments" did he already get? He needs others to do the same for his validation. A sad and sick person who really shouldn't be listened to when kids are concerned. Even if he's able to put his confusions in a "nice" way.

[@KD-rs6xx]

very perspicacious of you, thanks

[@peaceful525]

He.

[@AlyshaAdele]

This reminds me of research that represents how excessive or “empty” praise elicited from parents contributes to low self-esteem and “imposter syndrome” in children, which follows them into adulthood. This overtly-praising behavior (to the point it comes across as “empty” especially when one claims to disagree) can manifest as a projection of the way one has been parented as a child. While I’m positive it was well-intentioned, it ends up becoming counter-productive. Despite the effort to come across as accepting or open-minded, it ultimately comes across as defensive, as if overcompensating for a lack of confidence, or reveals conflicted feelings in one’s own stance. Not saying any of this out of judgement, but with compassion. I think it is a vulnerability which externalizes an intrinsic willingness to consider others’ viewpoints while continuing to learn, evolve, and shape one’s own perspective.

[@SamanthaEliza]

This conversation was SO beautifully done. If we could all discuss these hard topics with this kind of respect and kindness, the world would be a much better place.

[@heyitsme881]

Would it? Because they can speak nicely all they want to, but Desmond and people like him are still negatively influencing children.

[@Creepitclean]

I had 15 minutes of free time, opened KZbin and started watching. I ended up spending the rest of my day listening to this podcast. I love Allie and how well spoken she is. Not once did she say um or like. She never skipped a beat on any of her arguments.

[@oh_my_godshall]

The fact that we even have to have debates like this shows just how stupid our society has become. Basic biology is the hard hitting issue of the 21st century 🥴

[@tigrouthetraveler]

Desmond is a nice guy, but he talks non-sense!

[@PJCE15]

i was thinking the same thing. hes very sweet, but he’s completely lost and delusional

[@electronio1275]

Yeah he's really open to discussing and sharing but he really doesn't know what tf he's talking about.

[@lorirad]

He speaks like he’s trying very hard to sound smart-but yikes-so much nonsense.

[@Xx_R.C.A]

@@lorirad girl shut up

[@Xx_R.C.A]

@@lorirad shut up

[@sounddilemma6474]

I disagree with Allie a lot but have been listening to her for a while. She is my favorite conservative Christian podcaster.

[@abbyK4932]

Ellen!!! I just now discovered this video and am about to watch it. I’ve been watching both you and Allie for a couple years now and my mind is so blown right now about that fact that you have her on your podcast!!! I’m so excited about this

[@christopherjames4422]

The number or times he said "right" nearly broke my brain.

[@flybabyskybaby]

Aw poor thing. My heart breaks for him. You can see the trauma and confusion in him... I pray he finds peace within, God bless him.