This show is very relatable. I stumbled upon this yesterday. Finally, made the decision to get rid of debt. I'm on my way to winning.
@catherineskis Жыл бұрын
Do it! It's easy, but not very easy! Don't let fear make decisions for you, I do this all of the time...still. You will be so glad that you did! Don't be afraid.
@margie909 Жыл бұрын
Today's Ramsey Show was the best I've seen in some time! A variety of interesting calls, well paced, Dave cutting right to the chase with callers, not too much side bar chit chatting, callers with real dilemmas getting spot on advice from Dave.
@JuiceeeWorld326 ай бұрын
I used to thrift heavily for books, a few years ago. I found "The Total Makeover" and have been ON IT! The budget sheets in the back are spot on! I've printed copies for each month. On the road to becoming debt-free!! 🥳🗣 Thanks for everything, Dave Ramsey and family/team! 🔥
@jillgott6567 Жыл бұрын
Jade is my favorite Ramsey host. She and Cristina both know what it is like to struggle yet were successful and are intelligent, lovely ladies.
@sandrao8146 Жыл бұрын
Dave has the experience with callers to have that instinct to dig deep enough, ask the right questions and walk them through the baby steps. He gets personal and that makes callers feel he really cares and is on their side no matter what stupid butt things they've done. He has the heart of a teacher. ❤
@brookelondon8029 Жыл бұрын
If the first caller is reading the comments, I hope she sees mine. I am so sorry for what you went through with divorce and cancer. People who have never listened to the show have no idea of what to do in emergency situations or divorces. You did what most people do. And you had cancer which I think might have been the only thing on your mind! If you had known about Dave, you would've been listening to his program. But you didn't know about him. Dave usually gives people a bit of grace in those situations. You are not going to go back in debt. You were not a reckless spender. Sell your house, pay off everything you can, and start living your best life.
@jillgott6567 Жыл бұрын
She did what she needed to do to survive during her illness.
@juniekalu93405 ай бұрын
Exactly. It sounds like she was all alone to deal with her cancer. Chemo is so exhausting. I'm sure her head was not in the right place.
@annadavis636110 ай бұрын
Jade is glowing! Love this channel! Getting closer to being a millionaire because of this channel and myself of course. Go me.
@marysaltlife1427 Жыл бұрын
I love it with Dave onscreen. He does question after question. Other hosts without Dave just chit chat, and not with callers.
@fancymeowfightsback Жыл бұрын
100%!! Dave does such a great job of taking the lead on conversations. I like the other hosts - but they totally allow the guests to run circles around them and drag them 'round and 'round the mountain. I think I once witnessed a couple of the other hosts literally take only ONE freakin' call between commercial breaks.
@maryannl5846 Жыл бұрын
There might not be a call at that particular time & so they hold our attention in other ways. Perhaps more calls come in on days Dave is on the air.
@kimberlybotkin7060 Жыл бұрын
The calls are not ‘live’. They are scheduled.
@bettedavis9261 Жыл бұрын
@@kimberlybotkin7060how do you know? I'm not questioning if it's true or not, I'm just curious how you know. Thanks!❤
@artistcarolyngrace1711 Жыл бұрын
Agree
@jess619mestiza Жыл бұрын
Awe the husband is so proud of his wife! You can see the admiration & love in how he looks at her. ❤
@Flamy999 Жыл бұрын
Glad I did the snowball effect …life changing and now debt free!!! 🎉
@christinapriest55375 ай бұрын
You go girl! Me nexxxt
@tubenachos Жыл бұрын
I love when Dave cuts the bs on these callers
@shannonfritch8313 Жыл бұрын
Especially the “pay off the student loan that you took out because the rest of us that didn’t take it out don’t want to pay your bill!”
@alandalemorris Жыл бұрын
@@shannonfritch8313p
@alandalemorris Жыл бұрын
@@shannonfritch8313😊😊😊p😊😊p😊😊😊😊😊p😊😊
@alandalemorris Жыл бұрын
@@shannonfritch8313l
@coreybates7412 Жыл бұрын
@@shannonfritch8313why look like the idiot and do the right thing if Santa clause (government) wants to pay it off for you? Whether you pay it off or not everyone loses to inflation
@maryokeefe2144 Жыл бұрын
Dave, I love that you told that guy to get off his assets and pay his student loan debt! He wrote he could have paid it off by now, then he needs to start paying! Taxpayers shouldn't pay for those who have the money to do it themselves. Love you and your show.
@shaunta104 Жыл бұрын
Way to go Dave! I just got a job offer with the government after doing Uber Eats since 2020 and there are really no excuses why some people should be sitting on their assets doing absolutely NOTHING.
@gloriajohnson3952 Жыл бұрын
wow I wish I had of had this knowledge years ago. But never to late to learn, now at 73 years old look out here I come.
@Shelly_B7 ай бұрын
You go, Gloria!!!
@rhondaadams4013 Жыл бұрын
I always learn something new about business, legal matters, as well as finances on this show. Always! I love the Ramsey show!
@nathalieisneon6 ай бұрын
For Tiffany, To follow through with what Dave stated you should work through your debt. Give yourself 2 years to address your budgeting and tightening up. That allows you for 2 years of building more equity and having a stable mortgage/rent. When you have paid off enough debt that you addressed your budgeting, and have paid off enough that equity in the house pays off debt and gives you a quick start on your BS3 then sell you house if you still want to. That will give you stability in the mean time while still achieving the goal. Best of luck! You’re so strong!
@jingzhai558210 ай бұрын
Love love you, Dave Ramsey! Such a powerful clever man! Every word from his mouth went straight into your heart! You are life changer, Dave Ramsey !!!❤
@jcszot Жыл бұрын
Thank you Dave for sticking up for the taxpayers! I didn’t go to college and it was my choice not to go, but why should I pay for someone else’s choice. Amen brother! 🙏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻💪🏻
@formula112967 Жыл бұрын
Yes! studies have shown that college grad workers make 25-50% more than workers that didn't do to college.....why should us lower earners pay for the higher earners?
@nyemartin5737 Жыл бұрын
Jade remaining super cool and calm at 1:54:10she just doesn't get in a flap, love her ❤
@njvalueinvestor Жыл бұрын
Debt-free couple is so strong, wonderful people
@lot2196 Жыл бұрын
My house payment when I paid it off was $379. That was 8 years ago.
@Skyesoceaneyes Жыл бұрын
Things have changed so much so fast. It's harder to get a three digit house payment now.
@formula112967 Жыл бұрын
I bought my house 9 years ago on a 30 year loan.....I will be done in less than 4 years if I keep paying what I have been paying.
@robertfusselman81089 ай бұрын
Amazing show would not trade it for anything else to watch😊❤ love you Dave!
@EdwinBoettcher Жыл бұрын
I'm thinking of retiring next Spring when I hit 59. I've got approx $500K in investment accounts (403B, Traditional IRA, Roth IRA). My part-time job in SC annually is about $50K. I've got rental property that adds about $40K to that income on my 1040. I have no debt. My biggest question mark is Health Insurance. I'd like to live off the rental income. I'm working a budget to live off $30K, but no longer adding to any retirement accounts except my Roth IRA (which I love because it grows tax free). Does this sounds doable??
@KimberlyFlores-kr1bz Жыл бұрын
building a retirement nest egg, you most likely want a certified financial planner with expertise in retirement planning. With the aid of a coach, I grew my reserve from $160k to almost $600k during this Red season.
@EdwinBoettcher Жыл бұрын
my partner’s been considering going the same route, could you share more info please on the advisor that guides you.
@KimberlyFlores-kr1bz Жыл бұрын
My advisor is “BECKY LOU GORDON ”. She has since provide entry and exit points on the securities I focus on. You can look her up online if you care for supervision.
@EdwinBoettcher Жыл бұрын
Looked up her name and her website popped up immediately, interesting stuff so far, about to schedule a session with her.
@awhyee Жыл бұрын
So funny hearing dave talk about the algorithm and to like and subscribe. Seems like Ramsey solutions got a business analyst
@nicolasbenson009 Жыл бұрын
I started buying some more stocks at the beginning of the year, but nothing big. Why am I treating this so harshly? I still want to be the first person in my polygamous family to make a million dollars despite the fact that others in my field make six figures per person. I am well aware of the costs associated with working more to get more money.
@bernadofelix Жыл бұрын
Currently, the best market strategy is to work with a credible investing coach. Since a while ago, I've been in touch with a coach, mostly because I lack the depth of understanding and mental toughness to deal with the ongoing market conditions. You lack the information necessary to succeed in a competitive market, not because you're doing anything wrong, but rather because of your lack of experience.
@bernadofelix Жыл бұрын
Finding financial advisors like Margaret Johnson Arndt who can assist you shape your portfolio would be a very creative option. There will be difficult times ahead, and prudent personal money management will be essential to navigating them.
@koremeltdown7258 Жыл бұрын
Wow. This looks like a really natural conversation and not a scam made to direct people to your website at all.
@fotochikyo Жыл бұрын
Polygamous family?! Am I the only one seeing this?!
@shannonzittlow846211 ай бұрын
Married at 16 polygamy??
@LindaMathiews Жыл бұрын
Love Dave Ramsey show always helpful, knowledgeable information
@jcszot Жыл бұрын
John, congratulations on your upcoming marriage. If you and your fiancé are having a wedding that’s about $30,000 to me it seems like you might get some pretty good return revenue as gifts. I would use that money to get the snow ball rolling!
@AllisonNicoleOrganics-ip4db Жыл бұрын
That’s right give it to them straight! No sugar coating. Getting out of debt is serious business!
@Charlay_Charlay Жыл бұрын
300k for a pt degree at a state school and only making 74k. We really need to teach kids about ROI because that school Robbed her 4 times her salary 😮
@dianewest9154 Жыл бұрын
A lot of times the loan amount borrowed includes living expenses along with tuition.
@RJthing Жыл бұрын
As a combat veteren I was grateful for the prmise of free education. I swore to give my life for Americans. I was promised above benefits. It disgraced me that Biden promised to forgive debt relief. I felt my service to country was degraded with Americans who had gone into debt w student loans, promised free forgiveness. Mr Biden, you sir should be ashamed for lying. You now have deinsetivised and comprised the attractiveness for Americans to enlist in our military services.
@beckyl94547 ай бұрын
When it comes to the Parent Plus Loan, it's the caller's responsibility because she was the one who went to college. My husband and I told our children we weren't going to do that type of loan. Our middle child would not have gone to college without it; however, we drafted a legal agreement where she would be the one to pay it off. She was extremely disrespectful and we opted to wash our hands of helping her pay for college because we didn't want to be stuck with a debt we weren't going to be able to pay without her reimbursing us.
@joshuaswartz1363 Жыл бұрын
500 Acres must be worth a few million especially if its fertile with a dwelling - location of course matters but sound like an excellent solution. The United States cropland value averaged $5,050 per acre, an increase of $630 per acre (14.3 percent) from the previous year. The United States pasture value averaged $1,650 per acre, an increase of $170 per acre (11.5 percent) from 2021.
@johnnygarrett6323 Жыл бұрын
This was a great interview and I appreciated the honesty of your guest. It was 37 minutes in that I heard what I wanted to hear as a LPL client. It’s that your guest wanted to be present in the moment and will int to do what was right in that moment.
@mitchberning1595 Жыл бұрын
This episode makes me really glad that I found a way to cashflow my PT school education. I still have 6 more semesters, but I paid for the first 2 and I have 40k saved for the next 4, so all I have to do is figure out how to make about 10k more to pay for the last 2, which should be possible with how I work atm
@Kika-rn9tq Жыл бұрын
Wish I could give you two👍🏼
@brookelondon8029 Жыл бұрын
If you're looking for ideas for side gigs, depending where you live, there are tons of people who are older and don't have time to mow their lawns. I pay $120 a month for someone to do mine which is 100 x 30 with my house on it which is 40 x 15. That's twice a month and it takes about 20 minutes. He weed whacks the perimeter and then he mows the grass. I don't have any shrubbery or anything like that and he said he does 2 1/2 per hour so it's his gas, and his equipment, and the trailer that he hooked up to his truck and he bought all of it used. And once you do someone in a neighborhood, make sure you have a card with your name and number on it because everybody will freaking call you, lol.
@tar2927 Жыл бұрын
Look for scholarship money
@mitchberning1595 Жыл бұрын
@@brookelondon8029 I might have undersold the “how I’ll find another $10000”. I run a small housing painting and gutter cleaning business that has generated between 10000-20000 a month in profit when I have the full month to work. I’ll be working smaller jobs on the weekends, but I’ll go from a max of 20000 a month down to closer to 3-4k a month if I have a optimized schedule, with around 2k a month being more likely
@cantuig Жыл бұрын
Dave Ramsey for US President 2024 🇺🇸
@michaelw7171 Жыл бұрын
I ❤ Jade…spit out my drink when she said go HAM 😂
@Angel42836 Жыл бұрын
I am going through a divorce and I refuse to sign the house over to him until he can provide proof that he has refinanced and took my name off both the mortgage and the roof loan and have paid me out my half of the house
@formula112967 Жыл бұрын
When you refinance, you essentially start the loan over and take on the interest rate that is available when you close on the refinance deal. I don't think he will refinance with these rates we have these days
@paulh17456 ай бұрын
I guess nobody told Dave that when you die, if you owe student loans, the balance is forgiven. Dave takes such cheap Snipes so well.
@Traveler20231 Жыл бұрын
I would run far and fast. Living in the exs house sounds terrible.
@CorrieKelly-ie4gw Жыл бұрын
Dave saying tuna fish is for broke people while I’m sitting here eating a tuna sandwich👀🤣
@luvofcooki3s11 ай бұрын
😂😂
@pescecanella474211 ай бұрын
I am on baby step 4 and don't even dare to buy tuna, have been craving about it for weeks 😂 rice and beans life 😂
@troycarpenter367511 ай бұрын
Tuna is high in mercury; not good
@juniekalu93405 ай бұрын
Tuna ain't cheap. It used to be but not anymore.
@brookelondon80293 ай бұрын
I buy the tuna in pouches and it's enough for a good size sandwich and it doesn't have mercury. Abalone tuns does but there's none in the type I buy.
@lauracarter34087 ай бұрын
love your show. watch it everyday.. You're a godsend!
@_youurstrully_ Жыл бұрын
400k is a whole houseee 🏡🏡
@RPisa2416 Жыл бұрын
The PT school callers give me chills
@olivias2836 Жыл бұрын
300k in debt for PT degree at a state school…. The math isn’t mathing
@brookelondon8029 Жыл бұрын
Dave talks a lot about finding out what you're going to be earning before you spend money on your degree.
@catherineskis Жыл бұрын
Oh my gosh, Mr. Ramsey, you are so smart.
@brazillianyoutube3841 Жыл бұрын
Gosto muito desse programa.
@SanctifiedLady Жыл бұрын
Jade brought me right back to the show… I look for her then press play ❤
@Dave8720107 ай бұрын
I’d dump the physical therapist with 300k in debt. He’s on an 8-9 year program if he marries her. If they make 150k that’s 100k bring home. If 2 people manage to live off 50k that’s over 8yrs. Run away dude
@catherineskis Жыл бұрын
Dear Ramsey show, can you please change the title of this program to, "Get off of your Public Assistance and get to work!"
@formula112967 Жыл бұрын
That is a strange comment coming from a woman.......your feminist mother and grandmother fought hard for 'women-only' safety nets that are tax-payer subsidized, like welfare and section 8 , and you want to dismantle them? Did you vote for Biden? most women did.
@teaiz94 Жыл бұрын
I do believe the market value on her quote. I've got a car with 6,000 miles, and I'd only get about $17,000-20,000 for trade-in.
@frenchy1220 Жыл бұрын
When we’re in a tight spot and we’re stress, we have a tendency to make things worse trying to get out of it
@cs.8821 Жыл бұрын
Health is wealth, you must eat the fruits amd veggies and exercise daily. Keep your weight down at a healthy weight for your height. Drink water only dailty.
@ShermaineLit10 ай бұрын
Married at 16. Unimaginable 😢
@PennyKilby Жыл бұрын
Anxiety, stress, loss and grief, worry for family, grandchildren, illness, and just trying to keep it all together, I can only speak for my own situation but you would have to be thoughtless and uncaring in most cases
@njvalueinvestor Жыл бұрын
Really good show
@juniekalu93405 ай бұрын
Embrace The Suck! Perfect decal. I'll buy it (after I'm debt free!) LOL
@ronnie-lynn Жыл бұрын
Every blade of grass is yours! ❤ how cool.
@loa5000ify Жыл бұрын
Dave ramsey was rite! I WISH MY FRIENDS AND FAMILY WOULD LISTEN TO HIM TO!
@brookelondon8029 Жыл бұрын
Me too! I have a friend who is sending her son to an expensive college to get an information technology degree. I cringe every time Dave says you don't need one, just get all the certifications because by the time you graduate everything you learned will be obsolete.
@fsm1238511 ай бұрын
Way to go Ramsey tell it like it is go to work ! Broke my butt 45 yrs ! Like many others who are labled Lucky !
@frenchy1220 Жыл бұрын
if you’re $400,000 in debt may be paying for a $30,000 wedding is not a good idea😅
@Crystal-ww4hp Жыл бұрын
I am on snowball debt, and yes, it is hard.
@striperkid Жыл бұрын
It boggles my mind the amount of student loan debt some people get themselves into.
@lilibethvilella Жыл бұрын
The title 😮😂😂😂 LOVE IT!!!!
@Meme010436 ай бұрын
When are they live? I alway miss the call.
@USMC6976 Жыл бұрын
if the estate farmer is paying the taxes there is "adverse possession" for gaining ownership.
@annadavis636110 ай бұрын
Oh my, she has me crying too. 😢
@thetiffanystevenson Жыл бұрын
YAY, FORT WORTH TEXAS!!!! WOOHOOOOO
@jacksgl7776 ай бұрын
Second caller on the student loans, I’d let the parents pay for those parent plus loans. No decent parent signs a large loan like that thinking I’ll have my naive daughter pay for this. They’d at very least make absolutely sure daughter knew who’d be responsible.
@mohamadnoordinmatisa7 ай бұрын
Thanks
@joenanez Жыл бұрын
4:49 Dave needs to realize banks were financing 150% of the value of cars in 2022. So many of these bad deals are adding to the bank crisis unfolding.
@stephanieflores59896 ай бұрын
We all said “Ohhhh” at the same time
@Nissan-hz8zh Жыл бұрын
Megan from Colorado. "My car is totalled. and insurance will A) pay me $13k, or B) $19k. Dave, which one should I take🤥😑😑
@Adam-ew3yf Жыл бұрын
Does having a good credit score not get you a better rate when financing something like a 15 year mortgage?
@valeriemcilvaine8235 Жыл бұрын
I didn’t realize pts only made 70-80k yikes
@thebestthingthatneverhappe6729 Жыл бұрын
best financial decision I ever made was go to work after getting my BS in exercise science instead of going to PT school, that was almost 10 years ago now
@lilic6747 Жыл бұрын
That's starting pay..it does go up. They both can pick up PRN jobs and make extra 40k
@thebestthingthatneverhappe6729 Жыл бұрын
@lilic6747 what's prn?
@lilic6747 Жыл бұрын
@@thebestthingthatneverhappe6729 it means as needed..its Latin for something
@lelaboggs2861 Жыл бұрын
@@thebestthingthatneverhappe6729as needed
@germination42348 ай бұрын
What I learned from listening to this episode is, Don’t go to PT school lol
@winstonsmith4003 Жыл бұрын
Geese chasing is the same as bat mitigation. Can’t touch them, just coax them to the neighbor’s attic and then charge them the same couple grand you charged me and the beat goes on
@iverson2k107 ай бұрын
Student loans are coming back, that’s awesome!
@sippingtea4743 Жыл бұрын
Excellent!
@ravikurup8350 Жыл бұрын
Auto bills are no joke.
@SanctifiedLady Жыл бұрын
1:20:00 this is crazy… how can a man marry someone without knowing her debts? Move into another man’s house? Wow!
@mariannedressler6784 Жыл бұрын
I’m sorry but I do NOT feel sorry for these people who take out these damn ridiculous student loans!!!! You did it to yourself!!!!
@lavenderkisses946111 ай бұрын
People don’t know. My parents told me “you’ll always be in debt-you have to take out loans” I know better know, my not everyone is taught this.
@SV-xb1rg Жыл бұрын
Shelby and Chases debt free scream was awkward… there’re married, why is it only about her journey?
@iTzNonLethal Жыл бұрын
Because she paid off all her debt on her own, before getting married?
@SV-xb1rg Жыл бұрын
@@iTzNonLethal Sure I get that, but what about his story and where are they at now as a married couple. He wasn’t born yesterday was he lol
@allisonclaire9440 Жыл бұрын
What is he supposed to add about her journey becoming debt free if he wasn't part of it? Even Dave (very kindly) said he was a bit irrelevant to that journey. Why can't she accept full credit and speak on her own for her accomplishment? (Even though she was nice enough to give him a little because he hypothetically*would have* helped her with it after marriage)
@amazinggrace8136 Жыл бұрын
@@allisonclaire9440 well when you’re married, it’s not just your journey anymore. Sure tell your part, then he tell his if you both got out of debt prior to marriage. Then tell us the current situation as a married couple. It’s how every debt scream has been if you don’t see it I don’t know what to say. I agree this has to be the most awkward debt free scream.
@arthrodea Жыл бұрын
Maybe he’s screaming because he was able to stay debt free by not marrying a woman with a ton of debt that now becomes his joint problem :-) lol. I agree it’s mostly about her
@NaturalWifeyandMamaBear Жыл бұрын
I have my youngest son going into Kindergarten too and I’m a hot mess haha 😭 (I’m a SAHM and so they’ve always been home with me and don’t do daycare or even preschool, so it’s all new!) so I’ll be shedding some tears here soon 😢 that’s fun Me and you Jade, both have the same age, and boys 💙 and even Dave has some in family going into K 😊
@diannamc367 Жыл бұрын
Homeschool. Keep them home with you and save them from the mess they call public school these days. Join homeschool groups to get you and the kids out of the house and into extracurricular activities.
@NaturalWifeyandMamaBear Жыл бұрын
Trust me, it’s been in my prayers. Letting God lead me. For now, we just tried a very small town (more conservative) school which has been good overall. But it’s still on my heart and so we shall see. There’s so much to learn too like how to keep track of stuff legally and also like manuscripts or so for when graduate etc. I need simple ha. But what curriculum do y’all use? I was recently learning of The Good and the Beautiful bc know few ppl who use.
@SeanGunz Жыл бұрын
Must've overpaid originally for the car.
@bonniej0 Жыл бұрын
How would I go about asking for some forgiveness towards my my mortgage? I've been here 22 years and I had it down to $75,000 and I had to take leave because of COVID happened and I lost my part-time job I'm on disability. So I was having a hard time paying the mortgage so I took the forbearance which was for me a trap.
@sifeziwekubheka917411 ай бұрын
I feel like more calls get taken when Dave is here. Less chit chat, less questions and motivational advise. Just straight to the point advise, drop the call, move on to the next caller.
@daineramsarran2478 Жыл бұрын
The best thing to lease the land and that will bring in money to what she says they lived beyond the need because what they doing with a 40,000 car and the children can do the same without selling the farm plus the can work to bring in extra money.
@catherineskis Жыл бұрын
Can you folks please tell me when/where is the next FPU? I live in Colorado.
@howchapman Жыл бұрын
@DaveRamsey: Jade me do it She said, “u can tell me what u won’t do, but don’t tell what you can’t do”
@solvend Жыл бұрын
Imagine the terrible economic advice those homeschooled kids received from dear old mom.
@dave2160666 Жыл бұрын
I'd say run John. Don't marry into that quarter mil
@fitnasmeansresults1437 Жыл бұрын
I would accept the wedding money from their families and put towards the debt as their wedding gift they get from their families.
@tiffanysteen1845 Жыл бұрын
Pay off debt only 6300 I wish😅 you can rebuild savings be debt free and pay cash for trip as your reward
@yankos_ Жыл бұрын
49:10 "...you kinda hafta decide who you IS..."
@CabinLifeatBaseX9 ай бұрын
Ouch PT 300K in student loan.
@bonniej0 Жыл бұрын
How can I get a hold of you do I have to join something?
@lordBeerus46711 ай бұрын
If that is a low mileage hail damage car. Id take that 13k check to the bank!
@nighthawk1758 Жыл бұрын
57:20 he sounds like Mr Garrison from South Park
@bonniej0 Жыл бұрын
The trustee has control of the trust so doesn't that mean they can make decisions about selling the property that's in the trust? They have to do whatever is best for the beneficiary right? Now I have another question
@mechanicallycreative97889 ай бұрын
You can have them relocated. Need a permit but we had a serious issue at the apartments i worked at. They will keep coming back forever once they've have chicks. You need to alter your property to make it unappealing, otherwise your just blowing money. They're dumb stuborn.