The HUGE PROBLEM Hurting The NBA

[@shootthejay7002]

This was a real convo. A lot of fans are in denial about this. Missing ten 3s and not switching it up is just CRAZY. And you will lose.

[@johncarlos1012]

Boston perfect example

[@dionsmith3427]

People blame the players for jacking up 3s, I always put it on the coach. After seeing this and them saying GMs are the ones making the calls to increase 3 attempts, blew my mind

[@blackmist1981]

Facts. Crazy sht is most fans cant be in denial cuz they dont even recognize the problem

[@moneymangg303]

@@dionsmith3427 what do you want the coach to do, he shooting the shots? i’m confused on what y’all wanted them to do after they stop shooting. miami was playing zone. sending everything to the rim. jayson tatum hurt his ankle the first play of the game, so the only player who had an inbetween game to split the zone up was being a decoy the rest of the night. Derrick white winning you the game? jaylen brown was playing like a hoe. miami was sending everything to the rim, and bam was blocking all that shit. so what do they really do? when good shooters are missing good shots? derrick white and jaylen brown and marcus smart are bostons shooters, you tell them keep shooting ( obv at some point we say get one at the rim but like i said, bam is paint clogging in the zone) so all of you know better than nba coaches, give me the answer? what would y’all have joe mazzulla do? Jaylen brown couldn’t drive into the zone cause he could not go left. They shaded him the whole night cause the ball was going to be in his hands because like i said, JT was hurt. JT can’t be a playmaker for you. They were out of options. Y’all are literally just talking about nothing, and putting the blame on the coach for jaylen brown not being able to attack the defense. Boston should have stopped shooting yes, okay but then do what? They tried to do that, and jaylen brown had 10 turnovers.

[@cobbygaming7021]

What the difference from teams doing this and back the day they gave the ball to the big in the post to watch him miss fades pls explain the difference

[@realj4826]

Honestly game 7 between the rockets and the warriors was hard to watch. Watching them miss 27 straight had me screaming at my tv. Live by the 3, Die by the 3

[@savel-oe3lx]

Oaktown n da House

[@cmj8304]

As a Rox fan, I can honestly say I lost my sh*t watching that game lol 🤘🏾

[@bthomas822]

Facts. I miss 2000s/2010s where if a team had bigs like Kenyon Martin and Camby then the other team had to strategize in order to find a way to take those guys out the game. It also puts more pressure on your 'shooters' to make their shots instead of having a endless supply of shot attempts

[@allanawanyo4966]

Theyll just pit then in foul trouble

[@bthomas822]

@@allanawanyo4966 That'd be the goal but guarantee before they foul out theyll have affected the game in ways that a real big should instead of being forced to shoot 3s and switching onto smaller guards.

[@noisepuppet]

Camby was my favorite chaos agent. Wherever you shot it from, Camby might fly in and swat it. Loved that Denver squad.

[@FupaDoncic]

They need Camby for Shaq and K Mart for all the West’s HOF PF’s. It was a different game.

[@malikreid8939]

Offense will always win

[@jonpoon3896]

Players wanna shoot like Steph in the game but don’t wanna shoot like Steph in practice

[@khwezi_bass]

They want the results without the work

[@roverjohnson6854]

Cause you know 🥴

[@DaInfantOne]

This is a cold take. If you don’t think players practice shooting in the gym - you obviously don’t understand how sports work. They just not Steph, but doesn’t mean they don’t practice

[@kamotetops1572]

@@DaInfantOne "but doesn’t mean they don’t practice" - They do practice. But not as HARD! Not all players value practice as important as the others.

[@johnwalker1761]

Steph kisses the most threes out of anybody wtf lol lol he be bricking. He just shoots so much

[@Multiswagbeast]

The fact that a team like the Celtics were playing well in the paint and then went back to 3s makes me think it’s coming from up top

[@TheCelticD]

I think players like Harden and Luka influenced the way Tatum and Brown are coached. The Celtics keep trying to run the same kind of heliocentric offense those guys run, but Tatum and Brown aren't close to Harden and Luka as ball handlers.

[@j.s.2767]

made 2 is better than a missed 3

[@charleshenderson6890]

Preach!! It’s a fast break stop and pull up a 3 makes no since.

[@timothyherbert8106]

Wow, that is such an insightful take

[@FrozenAngel4173]

The teams that don't shoot enough 3s can't keep up. Look at the entire league.

[@Geeandrezzi]

@@FrozenAngel4173 because they shoot BAD shots and play worse defense…

[@DavidLee-cw6ci]

@@Geeandrezzi No the maths is if the opposition has decent shooters you're going to get shot off the court if you're just going for twos

[@user-gm5gc1be4w]

I think NBA teams have hit a wall we went from too many midrange and inside play to too much threes. I think a new revolution is coming where teams will have to change up their systems

[@IM-st2yo]

its not that deep, its basketball

[@garrettmcleoduy4238]

What was deep about that? He means a revolution in strategy, not a political revolution or some shit. If you think that’s deep then you need to stay at the shallow end

[@rafikz77]

yep it has always been unbalanced

[@rdelacruz8949]

​@@garrettmcleoduy4238Lmao.. yeah he's definitely on the short bus

[@mrmacross]

If you break down the defense and generate a lot of great looks from three, then go ahead and keep shooting. But so many analytics-based approaches assume that bricking threes is a matter of variance and if you shoot enough they'll start going in. That's why we get these embarrassing game 7 stats of teams missing 30+ three point attempts. It's like they forget that shooting from distance is a skill-based performance and some days your team collectively doesn't have it because of things like fatigue or nerves.

[@moyosoredada3109]

Exactly a lot of it is surface level analytics and not 2nd order analytics, which factor 3P% by amount of shots made/games played

[@dash4800]

Analytics does not factor in 2 tho gs anyone who plays ball understands. Hot vs cold shooting and the effect of the top defenses you get in the playoffs. We've all had games where we couldn't muss no matter how ridiculous our shot selection was and we've all had games where we can't make the most wide open, zero pressure shots. Analytics can create amazing regular season teams as we see all the time in every sport, bit it means jack shit in the playoffs.

[@durangobasics6195]

Individual player misses 3 straight threes penalize by 2 free throw. Team misses 7 straight 3 pointers penalize by 2 free throws. Missing 2s no penalty for missing

[@Theyaintme_cb6]

America needs Needs Gil, Kenyon Martin, Kevin Garnett and Gary Payton in one room talking basketball unfiltered for at least a year

[@monunyabidness5949]

I like some of the things JJ Reddick has said too.

[@DeathWing572]

And shumpert 💯💯

[@maddoxalucard6587]

Have been saying this for years All teams play the same which makes it boring But even when I play now at my ripe age of 34 I legitimately start with a couple mids A few post moves with pump fakes,passes,hooks and fades Then I’ll take a couple of 3s but if I miss both then I go back to mids,lay ups and post fades But every young guy I play with is just Drive then a bunch of 3s

[@bmwright1991]

Yep. I’m right there with ya bro. These kids all think they’re curry. They’re not! I live by flashing to the elbows and either shooting, or waiting for someone to cut and I can dish it to them. Then that opens space and more opportunities up because they know we’ll take the smart shots over just one specific shot.

[@KwisBwown]

and no defence hahahaha

[@maddoxalucard6587]

@@bmwright1991 exactly and too be honest I’m a much better passer then scorer So yeah I tend to stay in my triple threat I jab step often,I tend to only use 3-4 dribble moves to either drive or I pull up for a uncontested mid range But yeah if I see somebody cutting I’ll dish that ball either from triple threat or when I’m in the air on my jump shot But I also go down low and post up I like attacking from every where on the court I like using all three levels I like it when guys play physical brand I like the shit talking but these days I boxed out a person barely used any of my strength but he told me I was to physical and I need to calm down So they switched a bigger guy on me I felt him pushing and using more strength So I started using more resistance He got me to the ground and he said you ok I said “ I’m good,keep playing like that” And we ended up having a good battle between us I also had a guy drive right into me So I braced myself took the hit to the chest And he said “Yo WTF,that’s a foul,your always fouling,your to aggressive” Honestly it’s hard to play a pick up game anymore especially at my age I’m use to a more physical game They tend to call fouls for everything Where I don’t call anything But when I get whacked and miss a lay up They say I suck and it’s good defence by them

[@jaysouthmusic8230]

@@bmwright1991 that’s why when I play basketball I’m the total opposite. I be driving the ball in the lane cause of my height advantage, strength and my speed of blowing by defenders. I was a d rose fan before Steph curry and d rose was in the lane catching bodies before the injuries and you never seen d rose jacking up threes😂like that

[@bmwright1991]

@@jaysouthmusic8230 bro d rose was half the reason I started using my natural bunnies to catch bodies. I’m not tall like you but I’m long, agile, and quick wit bounce. I remember the first time I caught a body it was the same cock back dunk d rose did on dragic 🤣🤣

[@djdoombot4612]

The game hasn’t had an adjustment to have a great risk/reward balance. It’s like jump attacks when playing a fighting game. Jump attacks are usually the best attacks/combo starters but most players have devastating anti air counters… So you can’t jump attack all game against experienced players or you’ll get punished repeatedly. In other words it works great when it works but when it doesn’t you’re screwed. The answer is to have a steady diet of high percentage attacks while peppering in higher reward attacks(3s) sparingly.

[@mightymightydawada]

Love this!

[@dezzo6153]

Nerd ahh nigga

[@Psimon3]

This and the Pivot are the two top Podcasts/shows out there. Love Kenyon Martin just spittin FACTS!

[@dw00ds]

Every single NBA coach needs to play this video clip for their teams! Gil hit it on the head! That damn Joe Mazzulla response was absurd and if that is truly what Boston and other teams are going to continue to do - just throw the entire damn league away.

[@Bo-whiskey]

Right... he has a college coach's mentality

[@Dantana773]

I agree

[@roverjohnson6854]

Celtics were the best 3 point shooting league in the team league this year. They had no reason to stop shooting them 🤷🏽‍♂️

[@dw00ds]

@@roverjohnson6854 true - but the playoffs are a different beast. Defense ramps up in the post season. When you’re making 7 for 35 or 9 for 42, you have to switch it up. A game plan to just shoot “lights out” will not win you games against a team that can put up equal offense AND a good defense. 42 attempts is insanely high for one game. At some point, as a professional player you have to get those 3 points the old-fashioned way…and save for Derrick White, Williams and Tatum - the rest of that crew really struggled to move away from the perimeter.

[@Dejays_lifestyle]

Facts celtics like 3 s but aren't shooters

[@yoitmeree]

Im glad the world is catching up on this. It was so stupid for the whole league to change like the warriors

[@International-BlackMan]

Bro, now when u go to the park to playing Basketball Ball, everyone and their mamas are jacking up 3's. Smh

[@TheCelticD]

Someone said if basketball were a video game, the 3-point shot would get nerfed. 3 points in 1 possession is too valuable a shot not to take when a team like GS has Steph and Klay. You have a better chance of winning if you can trade 3s with them, otherwise you'd have to shoot like 60% from the field against them.

[@yoitmeree]

@@TheCelticD people say that but never talk about the degree of difficulty of the 3s or shots in general. Every team don't have a backcourt like curry & klay so its not smart to play their game because they're not as good as them at 3s. If you got to make more 2s, do it. Slow the tempo down and get more boards so they have less chances to make a 3. Attack the interior which has always been their weakness

[@TheCelticD]

​@@yoitmeree "If you got to make more 2s do it." No because you can't have a 2-point offense efficient enough to compete with a 3-point offense. That's the point of fighting 3's with 3's. You'd have to be insanely efficient from 2 in order to compete with a 3-point centric offense.

[@yoitmeree]

​@@TheCelticD You nitpicked what I said for your point. You make more 2s because its an easier shot than a 3. Does that mean never shoot 3s? No. Though, you don't shoot threes just because the other team is doing it. You play perimeter defense and come up with a gameplan to limit them from 3. Every team has their own identity, and its not Golden State's

[@simonhowell4486]

6:40 What Martin is saying is why the Nuggets have a clear path. Why Jokic, as talented as he is, is allowed to get away with the things he does. Before the problem would be his skill, which can be neutralized, now its his size. Only defense against size is size

[@olamideolanrewaju6581]

I hope that Zach Edey can prove that narrative now. He was the college POY but because he is 7’4 and slow he is a late 2nd rounder. He is also a Canadian like myself.

[@fpbaby8513]

@@olamideolanrewaju6581 he’s going back to school, damn shame too. NBA execs will sell their soul for a 17 year old slow European but won’t take a chance on a 7’4 unstoppable scorer who lockdowns the paint on the other end just because he’s slow and rarely shot a jump shot in college.

[@Cam71718]

@@fpbaby8513why would someone rather have a 7’4 big who can’t do anything outside of the painted area over a 7’5 younger prospect who can do everything on the floor?

[@fpbaby8513]

@@Cam71718 that comment wasn’t about Wembanyama, it’s obvious why he would be preferred over Edey. This is about the fact that Edey can’t get drafted AT ALL, not that he deserves to be a top pick. There are plenty of weird 7’0+ “experiments” in the league drafted outside the lottery, I’m just wondering why they tend to be European instead of North American.

[@terze2226]

And that's why he have a problem when he play Howard because he big and physical

[@Kicks_n_comics]

Exactly why demar derozan don’t get the praise he deserves

[@DaInfantOne]

& why he doesn’t have any chips…

[@Jack-jx6ln]

DeMar doesn't get praised bc he's never won shit

[@jblack84]

This probably my favorite convo yet. I'm real heavy on the big men playing like big men. Embiid could be so much better than he is. It's the league. The league is so small, how can big guys like Embiid not be so dominant? It's all mental. No reason he's fading on guys 6'5 lol

[@Dantana773]

THANK YOU SOMEBODY FINALLY SAID IT. Several Players in this modern NBA are afraid to drive to the basket and stand outside shooting 3s even when its obvious that they are not 3 point shooters. (UPPER MANGEMENT ENCOURGES THIS CRAP) instead of drafting or signing big men to rim protect teams rather play wing players at the Pf and Center positions.

[@Jony-es3wi]

bc we were in a era where gsw was dominant with small ball so teams had to draft players to stop gsw. teams soon will be forced to sign centers to stop joker but the high volume 3 pt shot will never going away bc of curry.

[@gx3079]

this is why ja is supposed to be so important , cause he brought hype back to driving , layups, & dunking

[@infared12345]

Ja knees gonna be shot in a couple years.

[@LUMBEEPHENOM2012]

@@infared12345😂😂😂

[@gx3079]

maybe, maybe not. we can speculate but people defy the odds all the time

[@roverjohnson6854]

The hype never went away

[@hooligan5381]

driving and layups was definitely Kyrie. Ja made dunking cool again but that was really suppose to be Zion. Zion was suppose to be a face of the league somewhat

[@JC-Finance]

That’s why the splash bros are so special cuz they changed the whole game, and other teams try to emulate but can’t duplicate!

[@thakidfloe]

Boy once Jayson Tatum learns he can dominate within the paint and mid range and stops relying on 3s he’s going to be unstoppable barring any consistency issues

[@michaelahurt]

Agree with that. He is a guy who is too in his own head -- or the coaches are too in his head -- about analytics. He hasn't actually been a good mid-range shooter so I kind of get excising those shots, but there is value in simply using that part of the court because it changes defensive coverages. And in the playoffs having a slightly more inelastic offense with less variability is necessary and, specifically in his case, having something you can get to on demand is key. He lets teams off the hook because you just load up to take away the drive and he'll take a contested three.

[@thakidfloe]

@@michaelahurt exactly it’s weird because a lot of players are playing this way. I’m a fan of Tatum as I am a fan of Booker. They remind me of each other offensively in terms of their capabilities but their philosophy during games couldn’t be more opposite.

[@michaelahurt]

@@thakidfloe It's just finding the balance. Like Booker to me is so much better now than a year or two ago. Which, yeah, it's the difference between a 24 year old and a 26 year old. He's really starting to understand how to impact games and be a threat for 48 minutes. Hopefully Tatum gets there. He has made the necessary improvements to his game; he has everything he needs. Now it's about figuring out how to organize his game and hit the right button at the right time and dictate the game to his opponent.

[@thakidfloe]

@@michaelahurt I think people underestimate how young these players really are in their basketball development and take it for granted

[@mobrown1198]

Finally ~ I’ve been saying this to younger fans for a few years. When it comes down to it. Shooting a bunch of threes won’t get it done. Only the Golden State Warriors won with that style of play. Even the way the Spurs played they shot threes, but the offense still initiated in the post. You had Duncan in the post, Kawhi mid range and drive. Parker wasn’t a great 3pt shooter his entire career. Then you add the slashing Gnobli, and a host of role players who played their roles perfectly. I am glad to see Jokic lead the Nuggets. I sincerely hope they go on to be the next dynasty. Make teams adjust to how they play. Bring back the bigs. Balance to the offense.

[@legorovers9838]

poole himself is affected by that mindset

[@faitaccompli5878]

It's good that Jokic made it to the finals, it's going to recalibrate the game, into becoming less 3 pointer centric.

[@CoachK_]

Well i wouldn’t say less 3 point centric, if Jokic wanted to, he could draw triples and just find MPJ cash all day. BUT more fundamental basketball will matter more now than anything and i love it. Jokic and Doncic are the best and they’re the catalyst for fundamental ball.

[@hooligan5381]

@@CoachK_ Luka my fav player I've seen too many games he does not play fundamental basketball just think about Tim Duncan who they called big fundamental and watch Luka. what he does is not fundamental basketball

[@user-gm5gc1be4w]

@@hooligan5381 I mean he doesn’t jack a lot of threes and he’s one of the only stars who actually post up. I get what you’re saying as Luka tends to overdribble and play ISO a lot but I feel like that’s just the guard style that teams are accustomed to and want to have nowadays

[@joshuad24]

Umm Jokic is a great 3 point shooter

[@coreygolpheneee]

​@@joshuad24 on low volume, he takes the ones that are given to him only.

[@SubwaySounds]

Gotta love Gil he keeps 1000%

[@therockneverstops8261]

What the Celtics failed to prepare for is the adjustments necessary deep into the playoffs when legs get heavy from long tough games and defenses are selling out your shooting will decline. I would have liked to have seen more post ups by Al Horford on switches when he got a mismatch and allowed him to facilitate out of the post.

[@williambreeze2659]

I like the the smaller back line players part. I remember this season when Bam was guarding Lebron. So Lebron was our 4 and Bam was their 5. Lebron damn near dwarfed bam 😂.

[@aaronhutchinson885]

This is a fact. But I've heard Gil say there is more skill now. Most teams play the same way. Shoot 30+ 3s. Analytics have changed the game for the worst in some cases

[@JaceEntertainment]

It's wack and make 0 sense

[@aaronhutchinson885]

@@JaceEntertainment almost impossible to watch.

[@nalokitten]

Also, if everyone plays the same then no one is worth as much. That's what the players don't realize....How much is Caleb Martin making? And where are the Heat? Exactly... I'm not paying anybody above 15 million if they're going to choke so often.

[@Kingme3144]

The warriors broke the league for a while in terms of style and competition when kd ran over there. Watching Boston have such an obvious physical advantage over the heat and jack up so many 3s all series was hard to watch. Up until golden state's run different teams with different styles all had a chance to win and it was fun to watch. Now watching 6'8 guys with 40" verts jack up 3s isnt it for me.

[@TheGoatedOne423]

They broke basketball period… go to any gym or outside pickup court in any city and mfs just jacking 3s now

[@DD-sw1dd]

Watched some of the last Celtics vs Heat game. I wanted the Heat to win, but even I was blown away by the shot selection. You down 1 point with a low game clock….and they go for the 3 QUICKLY. I didn’t understand none of that. High percentage shots is what you want…least I thought. Or at the very least draw a foul.

[@MeatyRielly]

SALUTE @No CHILL GIL AND PEACE TO EVERYONE ON THE PANEL AND CHAT✌🏾💯🕊️👑

[@mylesbankhead1384]

Remember when the Kings owner suggested only getting four men back on defense, while the fifth man cherry picks? Coaching plans definitely can come from upstairs.

[@Shortballa11]

Every team needs to shoot 3s to stay competitive bt you gotta have a balanced attack. Just like Miami has Bam and Jimmy getting into the paint while the rest spread the floor

[@weekends.o4193]

More proof that curry really changed basketball. Every team wants their own steph curry. Almost every kid wants to be another steph. Lamelo and trey young perfect examples. After seeing what steph (even Klay) was really made of after 2015, that made the league appreciate the value of the 3 point shot more than ever and made the 3 more fearful than ever so now every team is chasing the 3. Every position on the team is chucking up 3’s vs their natural roles. That’s legendary to me man. Everyone playing golden state basketball

[@dash4800]

The hilarious thing is that league average 3 pt percentage hasn't really changed in 30 years but league average attempts have skyrocketed. This means you have tons of average to below average shooters chucking mire 3s than prime ray allen. I'm talking Terry Rozier taking 8 per game at 32%. Vanvleet taking over 9 at 34%. That's insane. And it's even worse when you consider that most of the increase in 3 pt shots is from guys taking low percentage step back, contested, or super deep 3s. Bur because Steph hits a few step backs from the logo at 45% that must mean its an efficient shot.

[@hodgee4199]

This is what i've been trying to tell people that say the players are more skilled today. Players are actually less skilled today than back in the day, players are more athletic today and people often confuse that with skill. players are long, quick and able to jump high, but can't even execute a basic post move against a smaller defender. The biggest problem with analytics people is they analyze shots but never analyze who's taking the shots.

[@RahGzz90]

No they weren’t and U really think u know wat u talking bout is whats funny

[@Sha-El]

I don't really think there more athletic today, if that were the case they wouldn't be shooting so many threes.

[@matthewgilfus1640]

@@RahGzz90 back in the day most players played in the NBA as a side gig, and there was no such thing as "sports medicine" and "sports psychologists". In the offseason those guys worked jobs. These days they get paid so much they can train with trainers, lift, have dieticians, watch film, shooting coaches, dribbling coaches, rebounding coaches, guaranteed healthcare to keep them in shape and take care of sprains, strains, muscle pulls, tears, cramps, personal chefs and trainers, private doctors paid for by the team, full access to gyms 24/7/365, etc. Players nowadays aren't players they are commodities. Bought, sold, and traded based on past performance and potential future value. This even goes all the way down to Jr High. Twelve year olds. If you can ball you get a free ride to a private school.

[@Dantana773]

I agree

[@michaelahurt]

🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️ There's literally a measurement for shot quality that accounts for who takes the shot. You don't even understand what you criticize Players just traded post moves for shooting. It's still a skill. Just a different one.

[@robertcammon5969]

Vance Walhberg, Clovis West 3 and Key. Nothing is new teams have been playing 3s because they didn't have great post players. In HS and College specifically JUCO it is easier to recruit guards than 7 fters. So it makes sense to shoot 3s if you don't have a dominant post. But if you have a dominant post, it is much more efficient.

[@dwjrme]

This man got a Confidence Coffee shirt already...I need one!

[@forjordy9969]

Gill really got something against Pj Tucker here 😂

[@aneedkassim9727]

thisnis why the higher ups phased out Bron (ie allowing guys to reach in foul when he drives) phased out Dwight Howard (stopped calling fouls allowed defensive 3 seconds all came and letting small dudes flop charges to keep him from posting up and phased out Zach Randolph and every ole school prototypical power forwards. Hell the gary peyton Mark Jackson Same Cassell pg post up iso game got phased pout once they allowed zone. it allows guys like steph to not play defense and get picked on on every possession. all this was disguised as analytics

[@gr33nl4nt3rn]

Analytics only works when put in the proper context, but people always try to over generalize and over simplify scenarios to try and make things fit into boxes that don't apply

[@JerryJ13]

This convo is exactly why I feel the Nuggets have been the best team in the playoffs.

[@rayj.9568]

@3:10, I feel you. The high school administrators tell us how to teach. Even though many of them have spent minimal time in the classroom.

[@stevesfair]

Now Gil doesn't even realize he just debunked his own point he made about the old guys being too small for today's game, when all in all, the guys now are too small.....there are no positions..... These teams now would get slaughtered 😂😂😂😂

[@quedaking1252]

Love Gil for this! My questions finally answered. Small ball overtime doesn’t work. The bucks play traditional b ball and it works.

[@P04yt.4]

Same wit demar derozen his game ain’t change at all

[@SQUi5HiiFiSH]

A good 3 pt shooter shooting 40% is worth 1.2 pt per shot attempt. A good mid range shooter makes like 50% and it’s only worth 1pt per attempt. Just math. Unless other things come like spacing or you can make 60% from midrange, there’s no point in shooting it.

[@ihateithere9298]

The NBA thinks this generation wants to see 3s. The NBA got boring, because lack of defense, and it makes games seem none critical. They only play defense in close 4 quarter games when the time is low. They should play like that all game.

[@elisuarez8254]

If u can’t shoot just don’t do it !!!

[@josht1167]

When it comes to the actual games, Gil has some really good insight. When it comes to player comps, goat conversations he be saying some crazy stuff sometimes tho. Would love to see him on TV one day; he deserves a job

[@derice7375]

Thanks guys for sharing with us your great show.its always a great feeling to see former professional athletes and other people chilling and sitting around the same table to discuss and debate everything.of course the NBA has a huge problem of copycat league, what they should do to fix it.some players point at the league,the biggest reason why the league is soft, because big men don't want play in the paint, only want shoot 3.well you make a great point Gilbert,cancel the 3 points line . keep it like this guys .much 💕 love and support for you.peace and be smart.

[@peaceblessings152]

And what teams don’t realize with the Splash Bros is that when they see their 3s are not falling they change it up asap. Step and Klay are patient and they don’t force it because they know eventually their 3s will fall. You can tell the Celtics we’re panicking with their 3s we’re not falling in that game 7 and then at the point the game was out of reach. Their morale was lost and they looked defeated as if they didn’t have any other options.😂😂

[@mazengwe28]

Don't forget, the Celtics did the same thing in 2018 ECF vs LeBron. If they would have stopped chucking up three's they could have been playing against the Warriors instead.of the Cav's. They don't learn from their mistakes.

[@LUMBEEPHENOM2012]

This has to be their best segment!

[@the_real_ch3]

12:00 getting Shaq out of the game just to see Zo come off the bench would just break me. I laughed hard at that parry

[@yungsteveo718]

I’m glad Miko is back doing sports commentary. I missed her and loved her podcast

[@savel-oe3lx]

Who is she?? I think her sexy tho

[@yungsteveo718]

@@savel-oe3lx she is the wife of NFL player Brent Grimes. Very knowledgeable about sports

[@ABruhMan]

I always said this, why there isn’t a team shooting more 2s. Shooting effectively always reign supreme. All those missed 3s going catch up to you eventually

[@tommywolmart265]

Therefore fundamentally mistaken about this: the strategies are made from league averages. 3 point shooting is more efficient on average, just not for the warriors. The 1 thing is, not everytime has average shooting. In orde to have an average, there has to be some percentage that are below that.

[@jbhyip]

That's why I rather re-watch a game from the 80's and 90's than today's game. 2000-2010 would be my second option.

[@22xxjoshxx22]

Naw I been saying this! As a timberwolve fan ant shoot to many damn 3s! He’s a killer and hope he stays forever but the 3 point shot has messed basketball up like relax on it ! Get the best shot available! Like get better shots ! And also post up more !

[@Augrills]

Steph isn’t who changed it. It was D’antoni. A mid team using his system can make it far but never gone all the way, of course

[@raynel7679]

D’antoni didn’t change the 3 that was the warriors D’antoni wanted a fast pace under 8 seconds scoring and D’antoni never won no one copies a loser

[@RightousAdversary]

@@raynel7679 D’antoni traded his best big man to have more spacing for 3s, it was definitely D’antoni and Morey

[@duanepierce5479]

D’antoni copied don nelson and neither style was accepted because they didn’t win. Golden state particularly clay and Steph made it acceptable. It was often said the D’antoni style would never win. He didn’t win in phoenix he didn’t win in Houston the stats changed and game changed in 2015. In college the only coach that bought into the 3 was pitino now every coach on every level is trying to shoot you to death

[@dontsleeponme7470]

Steph is the one who made it seem "plausible" bc of the way he was racking threes. D'antoni tried to mimic it with harden and triangle offense but it wasnt as effective.

[@allanawanyo4966]

The lakers first half of the season showed me you need 3s in this league when we kept losing games because we couldn’t shoot we couldnt make comebacks cause we couldn’t shoot

[@a-a-rondavis9438]

Doesn't literally anybody notice that this happens almost everywhere at the highest level? When someone elite does something, others follow. When the Warriors smoked the league and won their title, that's when the league saw it and was like, "This is the new benchmark". You CANNOT play 70's-80's ball today. You'll get RAN off the court. You have to emulate and hone in on what they miss, rinse and repeat. This is like video game speedrunning. Everybody's gunning for the same goal, doing the same thing, just trying it faster. Then, when somebody else discovers a better way, everybody else follows suit. Rinse, and repeat. I find no fault, because it seems like just NOW we're noticing basic human patterns and history? Football, basketball, baseball, darts, swimming, cornhole, volleyball, chess, monopoly, etc. It happens EVERYWHERE all the time. Do you believe in Darwin's theory of evolution? Then you should have a confirmation bias with this phenomenon. Humans follow the most successful humans' blueprint. Simple. This will be the thing until another player or team comes along and changes things up.

[@rastheking]

Fax because the Rockets still ALMOST won that game 7 against GS, even with the 27 straight missed 3s. Some would argue that was the only possible way to beat that era of the warriors. But i do agree that there needs to be more balance in playstyle. The Lakers won in the bubble because of size and defense. They had the defense this yr, but the only true big they had in rotation was AD; and he's extremely inconsistent with agression

[@Ezekial2517]

Right but when the Bulls won the championship, not all of the teams in the league force fed their two guard midrange jumpers from the post. They understood that they had a different team and they needed to use what they had available to them to win. The Rockets surrounded Hakeem with shooters. The Jazz pick and rolled you to death. The Knicks kicked your ass. The Pacers ran Reggie through a forest of screens. Until fairly recently, every single team in this era played the same way, like they all had the same players on their team, instead of using the players they had available to them. It’s not a case or evolution. It’s a case of coaching. Coaching has been terrible and the league is to blame. Who in their right mind would go against the grain when you could be fired tomorrow for not playing like everyone else or upsetting your star player so much that he requests a trade?

[@a-a-rondavis9438]

​​​@@Ezekial2517But when you have two bigs in the lineup vs the Warriors, you'll lose bar none. It forces other teams to get 3 and D guys who can hopefully keep the shooting down on the Warriors' guards, and then in turn get open 3's on the other end to keep up worh their efficient scoring. The Harden Rockets had a good setup with using the 7 ft center (Capela) as a PNR guy and then run downhill to get a possible lob or pass. The PNR sets up the ball-handler, big man, and one other wing automatically by default, so you have almost every option available at once. The PNR-one-big-man style seemed to be ideal. You're not gonna beat the Warriors at that time unless you played like them and then exploited their weaknesses. If you have 2 bigs who played the post, on the offensive end, a possible 2 isn't as efficient as a possible 3. 3's overcome 2's quickly, and then you need smaller forwards to keep up, especially in transition. Sure, they'll need a big to match the other bigs, but that becomes negligible when it's raining 3's and 2's won't cut it.

[@jordanwilson5447]

This is all facts! This conversation needed to be had

[@BrutusJrThe3rd]

Nah that’s facts. The frontcourts Bron had to navigate through in the early stages of his career until now is drastically different

[@centralaveX60]

Thank you Gilbert thank you some body has to say it man 🙏🏾 what nobody is talking about or who can really talk the real in the NBA with out getting that hand pushed further up they back side And J.J Reddick says they are doing a horrible job at Selling the rest of the league hill

[@CheefwitKong]

In the playoffs those twos hit different and maximize every possession oppose to someone who’s letting them fly with 18 seconds left on the shot clock

[@SwypeTee]

Couple things I don't like about copying teams. One The value of player development and coaches offensive systems now becomes limited You see very little development in low post offensive players or styles of play around them Two The lack of pgs who are pass first has hurt many teams Considering only Steph curry recently won a championship as finals MVP . You don't see scoring pgs win championships as the best player and most of the guys that are top 10 ast guys are 6"4 and above with multiple st/PG types in the League. Three Most obvious You can't hope to repeat an individual style of play to a championship amongst the star players Trae Young as an example I think he is actually more valuable as a passer But he wants to look like curry but can't shoot as good. Micheal porter jr Wants to be like klay Thompson but is more athletic and has two way value but doesn't use his head has an idea of the player he wants to be instead of the best player he can be Four Too many coaches get fired to fast for players lacking in development Without being given full reign to coach and develop players. The players are having to much say without having to prove there winning talent not just stat chasing

[@HisHowliness]

It's simple math-- Per 100 shots 33% from 3 gets you 99 points 50% from 2 gets you 100 Shooting 34% from 3 gets you more points, per 100 shots, than 50% from 2.

[@jorgelinares6823]

Thank you Gil I've been saying this about the warriors and those 2000's Suns.

[@monunyabidness5949]

11:20 "that's why someone like Giannis can play the game he plays ..." Truth bomb right there.

[@nellyville69]

Brandon Clarke is the comp for Kenyon Martin

[@KC_208]

I wanted to come on here and hate cuz of the thumbnail but y’all was straight preaching the whole video 😂😂

[@FunNHonesty]

Shooting endless 3s are only for Steph Curry like talent. Andre Drummond like or even Jayson Tatum type of players should be chucking 3s. You are excellent in the mid-range. Play to your damn strengths

[@joeford5181]

That's true..... I'm talking to you, Cs When it come's to style a lot of dynasty teams would not bend rather counter that style. How did the Spurs equalize The Triangle Offense.

[@markvogel5872]

Wow...this is like the 3rd or 4th podcast of former/current nba players I've stumbled upon. I'm shocked that all these guys are pissed about the same things I am as a fan. This makes me really respect these guys a lot more.

[@koryverde]

Rashad made a good point abt culture, AI had everybody tryna spam ankle breakers

[@SwypeTee]

I halfway disagree Some coach's are only capable of coaching veteran teams and don't build a staff mentality for developing. Usually a defensive coach is better with veterans that will buy in to defense and you already know how the vets play off Some coach's have a style Whether it's Open court/ transition and quick shots Post centric Rare in the NBA but off ball offense based on offense ball screens Pick and roll based I do think it benefits a team to have a coach with an offensive style but your management team has to agree and or you should sign a coach short term instead of long until you draft someone that has star ability then go for coach who has style of play that can fit that player And The guys on the team amongst the top 3 scorers or two if you don't have standout third option scorer

[@youngzbear]

I would say on average, the league does not have too many big men that can outright punish smaller teams every possession while just having a small lineup is easier to get open looks due to the fact that there are not too many big men/centers that can defend the perimeter. A new wave of big men that can defend the perimeter/handles/shoot is on the rise

[@ThatBo03]

Talk about timing! K Mart's take is well recieved seeing as how Edey just returned to Purdue. National Player of The Year and everything.

[@xkillerTx]

Beginning "It's ridiculous to mold the game after Steph and golden state, it's bad for the game to alter your strategy to counter golden state" Later "IN OUR TIME THEY DRAFTED PEOPLE SPECIFICALLY TO COUNTER SHAQ and counter him"

[@SwypeTee]

Siakam another example With Leonard he focused on defense Off rebounding And pick and roll which were his strength Leonard's out Now he's taking to many threes and tryna be a ball handler Thoughts are probably his 4 and 5 best skills Lack of direction from coach coupled with personal opinion on what his best skills are leading to not being Most efficient

[@vincentscott2009]

That’s why I hate playing pick up basketball now days. Everyone is jacking up 3’s and no defense.

[@DaRealJA]

“I remember I got shaq out the game…. Now Alonzo damnnnn” 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣felt that

[@josiah566]

This is a real conversation and I’m glad it’s being talked about. But this was a problem since Harden was still on the Rockets - and may be the most egregious at that time. But then Kawhi’s midrange game put him on top. Then Giannis won a championship. GSW had to show defensive chops on top of a fraction of the scoring power they used to have. Jokic and Butler - not exactly shooters - are in the finals. The league is adapting and changing. The league will be fine.

[@alex1vid]

That's people though. It's always been like this. When Magic played guys loved no-look passes. When Jordan played everyone just tried to slash/dunk do reverses. When Iverson played everyone obnoxiously carried the ball lol. And now everyone's shooting a million threes. The difference... with Jordan & Curry's respective generations the league really did become copy cat. Guys trying to do what Jordan did but couldn't. Guys trying to do what Curry does but can't. It's super difficult to watch. Seeing Boston miss like 11 straight 3's was baffling.

[@mikewill4839]

Gs the only team who won with the “live by the 3, die by the 3” play style but during that 5 year finals run they really lucked up the most besides 19. 15 cavs injuries, 17&18 they added the best scorer in the game who also top 3 shooters along with the other 2 top 3 shooters 😂

[@durangobasics6195]

NBA should make new rule if a player missess 3 straight 3 pointers the opponent gets 2 free throw.

[@raynel7679]

It’s starts when you young the first thing they should be learning is dribbling and defense if you can’t master that then you don’t deserve to play. You have to get back to the basics master the inside out game

[@Sicarii_kai]

Gotta have that mid range game and presence in the paint ..steph and clay cheat codes you cant remake they game

[@4evahodlingdoge226]

It's about getting rid of long 2's, it's not like the mid range is totally gone.

[@michaelahurt]

Specifically long 2's by players who can't make them and re-distributing those shots to players who can

[@donavonzerbest9530]

Gils arena is slowly becoming my favorite podcast. Getting K Mart on was legit

[@005rmac]

I get what they're saying, but c'mon now. Just look at the scoring averages and points per possession averages now vs. 20 years ago. Clearly the offensive scheming, talent, and skill is better now (not necessarily at the top, but in terms of depth). What the Warriors really showed was that spacing was key. If you can space the defense out, and you have skilled ball handling and shooting *at least* 1-4 then you can exploit the defense at a high level no matter how good their defense. Yes, some teams get carried away with shooting too many threes in certain moments, but overall the league is "copying" what actually works. If you are getting high-quality looks at three, you can expect to shoot 35-40% - at 30 attempts per game, that's way better PPP than these guys were getting 20 years ago. They're clowning on the bigs nowadays vs. their day, but look at how useless Gobert is in the playoffs. That shows how much things have changed for real in terms of skills required, not just a copy-catting methodology. The fact is, your big has to at least be able to stretch the floor out to 15-18 feet, defend the rim, and defend pick and roll at a high level. That's why Jokic, Embid, and Giannis are the best players in the league. Because they can space the floor on offense, and defend all over the court. The bigs in the past couldn't do that.

[@GunzNbutter]

If you’re going to look at PPG you gotta look at pace. The game is faster with more possessions. 2023 the pace was 99.15 in 2003 it was 90.99. 9 more possession is at least 8 points not including any 3’s

[@005rmac]

@@GunzNbutter No doubt. But points per *possession* is also up. So offenses are scoring more, on average, each possession - regardless of how many they get in a game. And it's not because "No oNE pLaYs DefeNse!" like all the old heads claim. Defenders are bigger, stronger, more athletic, and more sophisticated than ever. It's just that offenses and offensive skill development have advanced so much that it's hard for defenses to keep up.

[@lilfoot8348]

@@005rmac that's also cause teams aren't allowed to be physical on defense. So less defense means more offense

[@AkizaNoir]

This conversation makes me think that the league could possibly revert back to the 2010s type era before every team was chucking up 3s. The Lakers won the chip without the crazy 3 point shooting personnel and played to their strengths. Just like Gil mentioned, a player like Giannis is simply too dominant in the pain. You gotta have a big to guard him

[@btetirick]

I would like to note as a massive Golden State fan, these guys are 100% right. Most teams do not have the personnel to do what the Warriors do, so frankly, they shouldn't try. In my opinion, the smart thing to do is to look at what everyone in the league is doing and try to build a roster that does something completely different, because then you can force teams to adapt to you. Ultimately that's what the Warriors did, broke the mold and forced the rest of the league to adapt to them. So if you want true success, don't be Warriors-lite, do something, anything else and make sure whatever it is, it's something your team can do extraordinarily well.

[@wavedirt7946]

I really hope ANT watches this and sees the opportunity for him to take advantage of his skillset in a small NBA

[@thedankfish6748]

Everybody trying to beat the warriors at the 3pt game is what let them win all there championships, imagine a team went up against them with dominant bigs… draymond foul trouble striaght away and no defence on the warriors side down low they gonna have to make dam near 30 3s a night to win

[@geokaram1]

i understand what he’s saying, however, al horford and malcom brogdon lead the league in 3 pt % so to say they’re “chucking” shots up is a stretch

[@michaelroelant7134]

They complain bout nowadays nba shooting 3´s and not defend..rules and players changes and all need to evolve simple as that .i was born in 85 and i miss the physical touch the nba had..no blood no foul😊 but i evolve and don´t complain about all those 3´s

[@arnabiarnab3037]

Watching the Bucks was so infuriating….. they were regularly the biggest team.. but outside of Giannis, everyone wants to shoot 3’s…and the announcers and analysts beating down Giannis for not shooting MORE 3’s

[@HooksyCollins]

I love that Kenyon said that about U.G. John Wall was saying the same things about my Rockets and real fans saw it. Hopefully with Udoka we get back to actual basketball.