Gil’s Arena Debates Steph Curry’s Case For The NBA Goat

[@milesb3133]

Kareem also changed the game...dunks were banned when Kareem played in college because he was so dominant..that's why he invented the sky hook

[@mrblump]

George Mikan invented the sky hook. Kareem adopted it because of dunking being banned in college.

[@SDesWriter]

Jordan did as well with the change in how fouls were called. Curry is a one-faceted player and at that facet he's slightly better than all the other really good 3 pt shooters. He only changed the game because he was allowed to shoot so much by his coaches who also developed an offensive scheme that allowed him to get open enough to be this effective. Ray Allen was in the vicinity in percentage and despite not being able to shoot nearly as much, had the record until 1 or 2 years ago. Look at the guys coming up.....that record will be history in 2 decades.

[@jasonnelson6624]

​@@mrblumpto bad a lot of people won't even know who Mikan was. Even though he legitimately saved basketball and was the first superstar.

[@TheRoadLessChosen]

@@SDesWriterallen shot less shots. If he shot more his shooting percentage drops. Kerr is t developing no damn offense for Curry you fool, Curry is the freaking offense. Smh. I always know when I’m speaking to someone with a low basketball iq. You’re one of them. Kerr’s offense is nothing more than basic movement and screens. If you knew the game you’d know that much. Popovich has the same offense and he didn’t create any great shooters remotely close to Curry. Curry can get his own shot as well witnessed against Boston the other night. He can catch n shoot, come off screens and pick n roll. You are clueless buddy

[@dillydilly5604]

@@SDesWriterhe’s an underrated finisher at the rim and he takes mid range jumpers.

[@fobinc]

A lot of people consider Bird as the better player because of his range. The shame with both Bird and Magic was that neither got to play super long careers.

[@RedCGaming12]

True

[@dusk6159]

Kenyon Martin, despite loving to brute force and thug left and right, would very seriously pretend to teach you how it was about the color of the skin and the climate of the country, not about how he was a damn special beast playing in a basketball market like Boston. Like the climate of this podcast when it comes to racism against europeans.

[@obeyhansolo]

Which is good cause it left you wanting more and not left you wanting to see them retire. People never got to see them playing wack

[@fobinc]

@@obeyhansolo Bird was on the decline due to his back, thankfully he saw the writing on the wal before it was too late. I must say watching them retire relatively on top of their game made us appreciate them more.

[@Jbeeze82]

Bird is trash... His team made his name

[@DAGJENT.]

If being a “game changer” puts you on the list then “THE ANSWER “ has to be on that list. A.I. embarrassed so many players with his handles until he made the NBA ban his style of dribble. Despite the ban, he still broke ankles. Not to mention the NBA tried to ban or did ban his style of dressing and the NBA did for a while. When it comes to changing the game of basketball and highlighting the influence of urban black culture in the NBA, hands down it is A.! He was the answer in more ways than one. #LOVEYOUGILANDKMS

[@Q_Ona6]

How old are you? A.I. didn't change THE GAME he changed THE NBAs dress code

[@princezay3608]

Ai ain’t change anything but dress code dude went to 1 finals and lost

[@ValentinoStuart]

Steph,KI and a few others were inspired by AI with the handles.

[@Q_Ona6]

@@ValentinoStuart why because YOU said it? Most of you fools weren't even alive during AI days & y'all think he was the first player with a handle.. Tim Hardaway had a nice crossover did he change the game too?

[@Uncle_Ruckus958]

U must be like 17 😅​@@princezay3608

[@gnojones466]

Hands down, this is my favorite Goat/ Mt. Rushmore conversation ever...alot of gr8' points made by every1' on the set...hats off guys, keep this same nergy' movin' 4ward...AUGWANDI...!

[@penkima4923]

Most of them agreed on a false point, that Magic didn't change the league. That alone makes other points in the conversation sound stupid.

[@SuperMaine850]

Magic started getting more recognition when people start taking titles into account..

[@macxavier168]

I like how this conversation got hijacked and nobody really answered the Steph question 😂

[@hopoff9968]

Gil sneaky like that, like to dance around them questions😅

[@cdhui]

Steph 4 rings. Arenas 0 rings. What a 🤡

[@pele914]

That ANSWERS the question actually😂

[@matthewdeheus3124]

Magic changed things in the fact that he was a 6; 8" point guard. Pat Riley predicted that eventually teams would be 5 multi-skilled players of similar size. That has been the ideal model for a lot of teams since then, except they can't find the PG with that size and skill.

[@Daveyjdigital]

LeBron

[@jamiegaskins3687]

Nobody tried to recreate what you’re talking about until the last 5 or so years. If Magic made such a big impact it wouldn’t have taken 30 years for us to see these big teams.

[@BigDicnigga-eh4kj]

​@@Daveyjdigitalmahic snd brid saved the NBA

[@thetryer6858]

@@jamiegaskins3687Sheesh kinda facts. Niggas more so was tryna be like Jordan 6’6 sg

[@matthewdeheus3124]

That's simply not true.

[@noahx.classic]

Curry is one of a kind. We have seen very few players that make the game look so effortless.

[@markeesebutler]

Stephortless 😂😂😂😂 (Kenny voice)

[@blaqraidersteel]

😂 Ankles Curry is a Harlem globetrotter trick shot shooter …. This kid is a defensive liability….

[@lilgloman138]

@@blaqraidersteelSteph hasn’t been a defensive liability since 2014 gotta stop using that idiot.

[@damianives2722]

...with 4 rings, leading a 73 win team in the most talented league of all time and only unanimous MVP. things NEVER done in the game. Were at the point where you either salute or youre a hater or dont know BBALL. @@blaqraidersteel

[@Hooperd2023]

@@lilgloman138 the cavs targeted Steph all 2016. He’s been a defensive liability up until about 2019-ish

[@otislamar8613]

The 90s is when Magic passed bird cause he played Jordan in the finals but in the 80 bird was considered better offensively and defensively with less help. They used to hold it against magic that he played with Kareem like we do shaq and Kobe but it seems to not matter anymore

[@thorodinson3597]

Only the people who *still* called Bird "the great white hope" into the late 1980s thought he was better than Magic. As Bird himself admitted his own personal ranking as below Bill Russell as just a Celtic, because he could never get his teams to even win 2 titles back-to-back, never mind a proper dynasty. In the 1980s through to about 1994, it was literally called heresy to even mention "Me-First MJ" as being the GOAT over Magic. The man who saved the NEW and played the game "the right way." The people who discounted Magic's Lakers dynasty, were also the ones who denied Bird's illegal drafting conspiracy! AND, Bird getting a free pass with his Media pouting/threats to sign as a free agent with the Knicks, for 18 months beforehand, because the *championship* Celtics couldn't make him the highest pair player ever without a special exemption until the next CBA negotiations. Magic was the undisputed GOAT outside of Boston and the majority European-American areas of the southern states. That's why *only* Lakers games were guaranteed to be nationally televised until the 1998 rule changes when Miami got a franchise. After 1998, all broadcasters also had to guarantee live regional games; if they also wanted to show live regular season Lakers games. On top of all that, Magic's Lakers could only play their home games at latest 7pm Eastern Time.

[@sportstalkwithzo3707]

Bird didn't have less help

[@theark917]

That's the best explanation I've ever heard. The ones that changed the game are automatic in the top first come first serve then the Kobe's and labrons because they were good at the created game.

[@salvador95139]

LOL. guessing you fav player is curry

[@JayDay32]

There are very few players that make their weaknesses their strength. Steph is one of the very few to have done this as well as game changer.

[@jon401]

how is defense his strength lol

[@JayDay32]

@@jon401 at this point he is as good of an off ball defender as Lebron and actually better at on ball defending. How has gotten much better at defending but that wasn’t the skill I was thinking about in my statement. His weakness on offense was scoring on all three levels, he worked on it and became proficient at all of it as well as improving his handles every year. He got stronger so he could play better defense and hold up better in that part of the game.

[@jon401]

your delusional even at this age lebron is a way better defender.. two words lonnie walker......steph singlehandedly got targeted and COOKED and lost a playoff game in clutch minutes that decided the series by a 9th-10th man..His defensive deficiencies alone will forever keep him out of the GOAT debate. @@JayDay32

[@SkidaFTB]

This is where Penny getting hurt really hurts my heart because he for sure was the 2.0 Magic. 🤷🏾‍♂️

[@noenxz]

Talk to em

[@williamdangelojackson7016]

Penny was KOBE before we had KOBE

[@ricosuavejr941]

If klay didn’t get hurt in game 6 against Toronto then Steph would have 5 rings.in any realistic what if scenario Steph’s legacy n potential legacy is still decently more significant. 5 rings ? N he was robbed of a mvp when he lead the bad News warriors w injuries n lost in the playin to the grizzlies.5 rings and 3 mvps he would be recognized as top 3 fasho it’s just perception but Steph done a lot n would be better then any potential version of penny respectfully w skill n accomplishments combined

[@jacobmontgomery1954]

Bro I like penny but everyone over blows his game. He never averaged more than 21 ppg ever. Like right on bruh

[@jayc21]

Penny and Grant Hill! They were comparing Grant and Kobe early in their careers. Man, them injuries had a great effect on that Mount Rushmore. If Derek Rose doesn’t get hurt, what was the Bulls going to be, man!

[@Ricky-yj8vz]

Bird played less that's why. Back issues he only played 9 solid years only playing like 12. Magic played like 14 I believe before the hiv caused him to leave in 94 or 93

[@ludlowbuckley5373]

91” but that’s a valid point

[@ivanmamuyac]

As far as league-changing, AI is up there. We wouldn’t be able to do half the dribble moves today without a whistleblow if it wasn’t for him. James Harden’s stepbacks and eurosteps wouldn’t exist if it wasn’t for AI. AI used to get called for traveling all the time for the hang crossover.

[@edgevevo698]

Finally Someone Said It

[@lorddevil863]

Old school legends gets push back because they brought their skills into the game but the later generations has the knowledge through internet, video tapes, games (2k), coaches, father to son, etc.. that they are already aware of all the different aspects to the game. Curry didn't just become Curry, he saw his dad play and worked hard to add more dimensions to shooting the ball. MJ didn't watch Dr. J attack the basket and only worked on driving and playing 1 on1, he developed a fadeaway. Its always gonna be unfair to the older generations like Bird and Magic. Thats just the way it works. Its like how people are living longer and are taller than before with better nutritions, thats why theres a Wemby, a Chet, a Embiid that with the right development and talent, they too can be considered the GOAT.

[@hormini]

And also these clowns are saying old school are slow... because most of them wear chuck Taylor's vs today's shoes

[@troygardner822]

You’re 1000% correct this is hard to explain to most fans. Greatness is the same in every era the aesthetic just looks different because rules and knowledge change with time. But if you were the type to put in the work to be the best in one era you’d likely do the same in any era your play style will just vary

[@eyoung8202]

Bill Russell deserved a forever spot on Mt. Rushmore. Bill Russell opened many doors as a player in College, NBA and as the 1st BLACK COACH. Also 1st Black Coach to win a Championship as a Coach

[@ManFinest]

Changed the game…Barkley literally changed rules. Kareem Abdul Jabbar literally changed the rules too.

[@Hooperd2023]

What rule did Barkley change?

[@StayHii56]

@@Hooperd2023 can’t back down for more than 5 seconds.

[@collllllll]

This changing the rules/games is the Steph fan base trying to get Steph in the conversation because he doesn't get in by other means

[@ValentinoStuart]

What about Dr J? Was it not him MJ mimic alot of his game?

[@naieuc]

​@@collllllll 😂😂😂.... thats why he change the game.... old style will be trash by how the game is played today....

[@richsport]

Gil calling Bird just good is Bonkers 🤔 I see now how he sees Bird. Some people do have Bird in the top 5. He definitely top 10 I am sorry Bird was different

[@Cakebattered]

24pts, 10 reb, 6 ast, for Birds career with 2 NBA MVPs is just good? 😂😂😂😂. Gil needs to stop disrespecting that white dude.

[@richsport]

@@Cakebattered exactly to call him just good is disrespectful Bird was an anomaly a glitch to the system. I am a Magic fan but I know he doesn’t be great without a rival that was great as well.

[@jasonnelson6624]

He's not in my 5. But he is in my top 3 for shit talking. I didn't like bird through his career. But once I head the stuff he was saying then he was Larry legend to me.

[@StreetsAintNoMyth5]

@@Cakebattered3 mvps straight. Took the goat title from Kareem to be technical.

[@slothmode3590]

It just shows how good bird was that ppl still try to downplay him to this day.

[@Fmjworld]

I'm a Michael Jordan fan. But every time I go back and look at magic. Johnson's accomplishments in the time he did it. I don't know why people disrespect that man like he's not the goat

[@Gosports15]

Well I’m just the comparison of MJ and Magic . MJ didn’t have a teammate close to as good as Former MVp and some ppls goat Kareem. And Magic had Kareem for basically his whole career

[@gbaby-gh9qn]

The one and only problem i have with this topic is that there's two sides of the ball. To me personally you have to be great on both sides of the ball. From an offensive stand point step is a one man military assault. But he's not a complete player due to his defense.

[@vict1435]

It ain't like hes James Harden and doesn't try. He makes consistent effort. He just happens to be the smallest player in the top 10. Averages 1.6 steals per game which is on par with Russ and Rondo and Conley. I know steals isn't the be all end all to evaluate defense but like I said, he ain't a traffic cone

[@gbaby-gh9qn]

@@vict1435 I agree with you on the point that he's no traffic cone. but you messed up when you put him in the same sentence with Rondo bro. With that being said we as a people need to stop listening to ESPN and all these other guys and start thinking for ourselves. Out of all the guys that as ever played this game you really think Step is top ten? I do respect your view point brother. MJ, Kobe, LBJ, Shaq, Duncan, Olajuwon, Kawhi, KD, Kareem, Giannis just to name a few and all this guys are elite on both sides of the ball. Like a said Step is a one man military assault and he's a monster. But he's a little monster and can only hurt you on one side of the ball. Think for yourself and stop buying into their narrative. They do this for content. Much love my guy.

[@suavegangofficial5711]

In my opinion magic wouldnt be magic without bird because it was the fact that he had that added adversity on top of the talent that pushed him over the top because he had to prove he was the guy over Larry bird to a biased audience and I think that’s what pushes magic to legend status because to be the guy in a league that wasn’t meant for you I’d the true flex

[@kylelaforest9919]

Bird > Magic

[@shelbyhaiketic4212]

@@kylelaforest9919George Floyd> bird

[@slothmode3590]

Magic got the edge but it’s not like it was the 1950s. Yes there was more white players i think but really white ppl never really into nba like that compared to mlb or whatever especially back then.

[@johnathanmonday]

Technically Shaq been out of the league for awhile so he actually been watching for awhile so yeah he’s actually telling the truth 🤷🏽‍♂️

[@youxtweekn]

How he watched for 20years before he played? 😂

[@js7phila3]

@@youxtweekn he's sayn Shaq watching b4 &aftr playing combined is 20,ish,probly more by now actually!!

[@js7phila3]

Gr8 po!nt👉🏾🏀👍

[@nategreen5586]

He said twenty before but we all know ge meant close to twenty and yeah that’s not even counting the years after he retired

[@howardmighty6764]

Shaq is a high functioning autistic person.

[@flyerlansky1538]

When you think about it magic changed the game with marketing, style of point guard, popularized the no look pass and the fast break

[@SDesWriter]

He also had over 11 assists per game. Anyone who wants a POINT GUARD that averages half of what Magic did is too stupid for words. If you want Curry on your team, you have to find a way to let him play the SG or you have to have someone else (like Draymond) be your point guard who actually runs the offense while Steph runs around in circles to get his shots.

[@jamesjones8890]

⁠@@SDesWriterWhat you casuals don’t understand is Steph running is his way of playmaking be for real you think non threat Draymond is what starts the warriors offensive just because he has the ball?

[@scamuelwashington]

That’s not really changing the game 😂😂 marketing ? Stop it .. style of point guard ? Wdym ? He was a pass first guard just like pretty much every other pg that was in the league at the time 😂😂 ? The only thing that made him different was being 6’9 and even then nobody is coping that style of play 😂 the only person who got compared to magic realistically was lebron and Ben Simmons 💀 nobody is being a 6’9 pass first pg 😂 and all of a sudden magic invented the no look pass and the first break ? 💀 stopppop ittt . He might’ve popularized it but he didn’t change anything

[@scamuelwashington]

⁠@@SDesWriterwdym ? So you telling me curry can’t run the office ? With his gravity alone he pulls in 2 to 3 defenders a large percentage of the game , now defenses have to zone and that causes problems .. he gets assists every game ? He’s the all time assist leader in gs franchise , and he gets rebounds on top of his scoring ability 💀 and he’s plays good help defense

[@RenardGarzaro]

That’s not the game, that is marketing, how many games you win with marketing?

[@peakispieck]

Bird isn't anyone's top 5 because they don't consider Bird as the best in his position SF. If Lebron was a PG then people wouldn't have a problem debating Magic as not being top 4/5.

[@MyDixieNormis]

Bird is top 5 in my book. Greatest rebounder of all time at his position and second greatest passer of all time at his position. 4 all defensive teams and one of the most efficient scorers of all time. 3 mvps IN A ROW for a good reason

[@trevey16]

Truuuu

[@a-a-rondavis9438]

I think it's because they don't want to admit a unathletic white guy is top 5 all-time, even though personally he has a better case for it individually than Magic.

[@wakeuptotheonepartyoverlor8797]

Bird over lebron in every category except longevity. Fact.

[@MyDixieNormis]

@@wakeuptotheonepartyoverlor8797 bron got more mvps and fmvps while being the better passer and defender

[@markconn3181]

Magic is 100% a game changer. And it's crazy to think but I do believe Magic is still underrated even though everyone agrees he is great. They did kinda touch on it but Magic had how many years of his career taken from him because of his illness? His numbers should be way higher than what they are.

[@vict1435]

Magic had Kareem to pass to though. They negate each other a few spots because they are both in top 10. Nobody else on the list played with each other on the same team besides Kobe and Shaq

[@cyber6sapien]

Not having a single center on NBA's Mt Rushmore is COMPLETELY INSANE and disrespectful! The vast majority of the NBA's history was dominated by centers. The only two back court players to win MVP before Magic were Oscar and Cousey, and they both did it only once. Big men have ALWAYS dominated the NBA. The last five MVPs were big men. Even during the Bulls' dynasty, all the other players to win MVP besides Michael, were front court players! I don't know what argument can be made for Kobe being on MT. Rushmore. He's was not even better than Tim Duncan.

[@cheetah219]

I don't think it's really possible to compare Tim to Kobe. Duncan is by far the most disrespected super star of his generation and is the greatest pf to play in the league, but I don't know if I can agree he was better than Kobe. The play styles, leadership styles, impact to the game, etc are just too different. I would say Kobe is the greater player because he had a much further outreach to fans, nba players, across different entertainment mediums, etc. Duncan won his rings, quietly dominated and disappeared until wemby was drafted. I would argue - Duncan is the prototypical system super star. In the right system, he will win. However, if he had a coach like d'antoni...bro would have failed. Kobe, I feel like, could dominate 1:1 regardless of who was on his supporting cast and could will his entire team and coaching staff to a victory. We saw that when Kobe carried the Lakers to an 8th seed So, comparing feats and long term impact to the game I would argue Kobe is the greater player between the two despite the fact I would out Duncan at number 1 greatest PF (although, this is definitely gonna change with the modern era)

[@Fennsjamin]

SHAQ?

[@tavaresmacon6333]

He said Shaq

[@theslayer2360]

The disrespect on Wilt chamberlain is crazy!!!

[@khezaebailey5706]

Did you see the mf play

[@brandonlee34444]

Overrated. He played only against white guys in the 50’s and 60’s and only won two rings. Bill Russell won 11

[@phenomfacemob1011]

Wilt not even top 20

[@edwardii3920]

Shoot, the disrespect on Bill Russell is also crazy!

[@phenomfacemob1011]

@@edwardii3920 ppl ONLY sat Bill name because the rings

[@IdrisPalmer]

What's most underrated is Kenyon over coming his speech problems...You'd have to be a certain age to understand

[@realjoshb]

It’s crazy but it’s true

[@MissLadyA100]

Definitely remember that.

[@HaHa-gy5vg]

All Time Starting 5: Curry/Jordan/Lebron/Timmy/Shaq Beat that lineup

[@b.u.theyll-adjust7623]

Magic/KD/Pippen/KG/Hakeem That’ll do it

[@juelzmusic7886]

@@b.u.theyll-adjust7623trippin

[@thefakeslimshady6969]

Magic, Kobe, Bird, KG, Wilt

[@wakeuptotheonepartyoverlor8797]

Wilt, Bird, Kareem, Kobe, KD Gentleman’s sweep

[@wakeuptotheonepartyoverlor8797]

Can’t stop them scoring. Strong defense.

[@DrugzMunny]

#6 all-time in efficiency, #12 all-time in most MVP's, 0 All-Defensive selections. I guess he's probably overall about #15 or 20. Top 4 IMO is Jordan, Kareem, LeBron, Kobe in that order. That's 38 combined All-Defensive selections, btw. 16 MVP's, 21 rings, 14 Finals MVP's, 61 All-NBA selections.

[@GSheltonJr]

Not even just for what he’s done as far as changing the game. I wouldn’t want to watch anybody else over him. He’s spectacular to watch.

[@MyDixieNormis]

Ya he changed the game but you know who else changed the game? Wilt kareem Barkley Shaq kd harden I can go on and on magic and bird literally SAVED the nba, so stfu with that idiotic argument. Dude ain’t even top 10

[@phenomfacemob1011]

How he change the GAME?

[@YonnieClarkTV]

Gil is soooo off about Magic. He is the sole reason why the guard position up scaled in size. Without him there’s no Lebron, Luka, Penny, Lamelo, the Giannis experiment back in the day… All of these guys would still be wings and forwards if wasn’t for Magic.

[@troygardner822]

This isn’t true. Magic was great and all but he was still ultimately the next evolution of Oscar Robertson. Not saying there would’ve been another Magic, but there was eventually going to be a wave of big point guards as the game progressed, Magic or no Magic, because that mold had already been broken.

[@YonnieClarkTV]

@@troygardner822 How is that comparable? Magic is 4 inches taller than Big O who still was playing at guard size. For that day and age Magic was the size of a PF. Size isn’t the only thing that made Magic’s game. The IQ, vision, flash and flare is what he revolutionized for the big man at that position. The moment he stepped onto an NBA court that Oscar comp died.

[@troygardner822]

@@YonnieClarkTV Being 4 inches taller is irrelevant. Oscar was the previous iteration of big guards. Oscar was 4-5 inches taller than most at his position at the time. This is what set the stage for there to eventually be even bigger guards to come later and why a 6’3-6’5 pg is now so common today. Not to mention big wings who had a varied skill set was not a new thing when Magic came out. People just forget their history easily. I agree with you that it’s not comparable. That’s my point…

[@bigew29]

You might as well put Dirk nowitzki or Bill Lambert saying that they were big dudes that shoot threes from the outside

[@NYCBX9]

True, but the style of play, it’s required for all bigs to knock down 3’s now, really everyone on the team, that never happened before. If it wasn’t for Steph Curry, u wouldn’t have a guy like Jokic shooting 3’s like that.

[@TreyDoe]

Magic for sure changed the game

[@smoothhoops3739]

How? U can't teach size and IQ

[@DKhalil]

Doing what exactly ? It was a 6ft plus guard that’s all

[@TreyDoe]

@@DKhalil which was never seen before

[@abe.officialsyt5355]

@@TreyDoewhich is greater magic being 6ft or curry being the best shooter of all time 😂

[@TreyDoe]

@@abe.officialsyt5355 I didn’t say which is greater. I’m just saying Magic changed the game, Kenyon said he didn’t

[@Pirate-bj3xl]

Birds top 7 easy. Gil not having him top 10 is crazy

[@LegendOfKhaos12]

He’s a fckin moron 🤦🏽‍♂️bird not top 10 is pure idiocy, anyone who knows ball will tell you there is not 10 mfs better than bird was😂Like go talk to Magic Johnson himself who was his literal rival since college… nothing but praise and high words. Bird is in my top 5, I am little biased cuz he’s my favorite player, but like you said he is easily top 7 with or without bias. We’re talking a 6’10 SF who was one of the best rebounders ever for his position with 10 a game for his career, probably the second best passing SF behind lebron with only 1 assist less per game than bron. (Which is also pretty crazy when you think about it the team bird was on and that he played more team ball/ the system was more team oriented.) A 6’10 SF shooting 50/40/90 multiple times, the 3pt line was literally introduced his rookie year yet still was one of the best 3pt shooters ever, could score from anywhere on the court, had one of the highest IQs ever, clutch as hell, was tough as nails and would be playing when his doctor said he didn’t know how he was even walking. 3 straight mvps. And not top 10? 🤡🤡

[@bryanmcclurge5681]

In my opinion KD the only one who really changed the game. Hes 7ft tall. With the most elite middy prob in history, who snipes from deep and can still take it in on you with above avg big man handles. Bro moving like a guard, and playing in the paint on defense. Is he elite on defense no but hes good enough hes no slouch. Hes part of the 90-50-40 club which is crazy for a 7 ft person to do. Kobe even said he the only player he couldn’t figure out. Bro stay getting a new bag cmon now

[@buffalosoldier7360]

I like the Mt Rushmore category better than the goat category. Mike, LeBron Magic and Kobe are royalty, supposedly there was supposed to be a 5th face on Mt Rushmore but they ran out of money. Steph can snag that 5th fo’ sho…

[@thetryer6858]

Curry > Magic

[@La5ish_GMG]

Ai > curry: just imagine if ai was americas fav like curry he would’ve retired with 3 or 4. Curry is a top 20 player if influence is a part of the goat convo. Idk what everyone was doing as kids but ik dunking wasn’t happening. All you had was in this order was crossovers, layups, and 3s. So to say influence is hard proving point for kids. In the nba I can say influence counts but the nba was going more offensively. So they let a lot moving screens and offense fouls go with curry like Jordan and his fouls.

[@bobmoz]

The reason bird has dropped in people’s eyes is because he’s not in the spot light he doesn’t make public appearances he rarely does interviews he stayed away from the limelight after his playing career yes he coached a few years but after that he took a back office role and you don’t hear about him. For the top 75 of all time he didn’t make an appearance

[@richsport]

Agreed sometimes people make list based on popularity and great as Bird was he wasn’t a media player an endorsement player he just played the sport to win.

[@Bambino..]

Bird used to be the gm for the pacers

[@Peakfreud]

Facts.

[@Peakfreud]

Bird also doesn't care about rankings.

[@RedCGaming12]

Nah you got it wrong…. Until Lebron came and won his rings bird was regarded as the best and most successful SF to ever play the game

[@skeeminplot]

Kevin Garnett changed the game. He and Dirk Nowitzki are the archetypes of today’s big men.

[@jamesmorgan8830]

not as much as steph lol relax

[@RenardGarzaro]

Maybe you don’t know what changed game means? They are talking about how the game is played, Muggsy Bouges in archetype.

[@penkima4923]

@@jamesmorgan8830 Steph's not going to be in the GoaT convo, relax.

[@executiverecruiter2734]

🙄😒😮‼️These fools set up here with straight faces and said that EARVIN "MAGIC" JOHNSON didn't change the game!!! His versatility and ability to play the way he did at his size absolutely changed the game. He led the revolution of bigger players handling the ball on the perimeter. He influenced bigger point guards, point forwards, stretch 4's, and even centers being able to play on the perimeter more. Speaking of playing center: "With Kareem Abdul-Jabbar home in Los Angeles resting a sprained ankle suffered the game before, rookie Magic Johnson jumped center, played every position and piled up 42 points, 15 rebounds and seven assists in a 123-107 victory that clinched the championship." He added four more rings after that, and many more accolades. CASE CLOSED. I'm about to log off for the rest of the day. Happy Holidays y'all lol!

[@GS-sv8uy]

After the Olympics we need to revisit this convo

[@richsport]

Gil forgets to take into the consideration great players is a generational thing. So who you watched as a kid makes an impression that’s why some players get pushed down the list not by who watched them but by who didn’t watch them. Players like Bill and Wilt get pushed down because youths only know by what older people tell them but what if the older people are Jordan era then who gonna speak of them. IMJUSSAYIN Bird is still in my top 10.

[@Peakfreud]

True

[@TheChriscorey]

Game changers shouldn't be a criteria for Mount Rushmore. Allen Iverson, James Harden, and Dwyane Wade were all game changers but don't deserve Mount Rushmore status. It's about who took over the game!

[@KSlayZZ]

I agree with you on that point. But I’m not sure what about D-Wade was a game changer (just curious).

[@vict1435]

73-9 is pretty took over. Unanimous MVP and going back to beck is taking over

[@vict1435]

And he did it in the West

[@split_head_776]

Bird and Magic have always been close. Magic was drafted to a stacked team in a weak conference. Bird was above Magic because of his play on the court. Magic is only 'above' Bird after the fact due to winning bias, and the Lakers are the favorite child of the NBA. Magic top 5 is overrated, Bird not top 10 is underrated. Magic isnt even the best Laker all time, how is he top 5 over Kobe?

[@TheTonytone77]

stacked team lol ...all they had was a uninspired kareem there team was barely over 500 getting knocked out the playoffs or not going at all....kobe was carrried shaq for 6 years not winning mvp barely at all how u figure that....u sound autisic

[@split_head_776]

@@TheTonytone77 A 40 year old limping Kareem is still better than 90% of the league, Magic got some good years from him. Also, Worthy was there. They also had good depth behind those 3 stars, and the conference was still tissue soft. At least Shaq/Kobe had great teams in thier conference.

[@datsapaddlin]

The Lakers were seen as the Celtics little brothers until Magic came around. Him and Kobe are the faces of the Lakers. They had won only one championship when they moved to LA until Magic got there. His impact made them the biggest NBA franchise in the world.

[@split_head_776]

@@datsapaddlin It helps that all the best players somehow gravitate to LA. The Celtics also have a history of great teams, though more of their talent is drafted. Its funny how the Celtics have only won once this century and the rivals are still tied. Bill Russell deservers more credit. Also, Kobe should be the greatest Laker. He had an exponentially tougher conference and got to 5 with less help at the end. Thats why it confuses me when Magic is on this pedestal and people barely have Kobe top 10. The only difficulty Magic met was at the doctors office and when Bird (the better player) came to town. Bird was matching up with that Lakers super team with a definitively worse (still great) team. I think people are just fascinated by the flashy passing, Bird was the better all around shooter/defender and still a great passer. In summary, Bird and Kobe clear.

[@datsapaddlin]

@@split_head_776 Magic made the Lakers the big name franchise they became in LA. He won more MVPs and finals MVPs and has the highest assists per game average ever. I got it as a tie. They both are the faces of the Lakers. Magic helped save the NBA. Kobe a better all around player obviously but him and Magic share the face of the franchise.

[@mhadiraw3235]

“People have a memory like a elephant if they want to” that’s a BAR!💯

[@haoncampbellpodcast6265]

5 rings in a 13 years career. 9 NBA finals 69% of the time magic played… he was in the NBA finals He was HIM his rookie year. NBA championship. Last year battled jordan for his 1st ring.

[@rjraw05]

Imagine if curry had fucking karrem 😂😂😂 his rookie he would have more rings 😭😭😭 curry never had a legit big man ever 😂😂

[@waterboyreek9696]

I had this debate in 2016 just looking ahead I told everybody he was 1 of if not The greatest ever! He changed the game and still Playing GREAT!! Again I said this 7 years ago “How does he not have a chance to be in the debate” 🤷🏽‍♂️

[@azrazerz1445]

Bird gets moved down in lists because like yall said so many of the best players over the past 30-40 years have been playing his position. In terms of point guards theres only one to really challenge magics top spot and it is Curry. Bird has had plenty of challengers for his position.

[@CarolinaScorpio]

The only SF better higher than Bird on the all time players list is LeBron. The fuck are you talking about lmfao

[@JamesBond-mc2mx]

Both of you guys are right. We’ve seen some great SF like Lebron Durant and Kawhi that makes you question the match up with Bird which makes surpassing him reachable. While with Magic, before Steph there was a humongous gap between him and the 2nd best PG which make Magic stand out more to be a unicorn (still does). K Mart was trying to explain this. Bird is still the 2nd best SF ever tho. Idk why Gilbert said Bird wouldn’t be a top 4 SF 🤔. The only players that has a chance is Durant and maybe Kawhi 10 years from now but that’s a tough pull.

[@lsekai2101]

@@CarolinaScorpioummmm KD?

[@mattislinx]

More people may consider Magic more of a top 5 guy than Bird, but they're still really close in my opinion. Bird not only won 3 MVP's in a row. He finished 2nd x4, 3rd x1, 4th in his rookie year and top 10 2 other times in the late 80's and early 90's. Basically, every season he played he was really good.

[@Jmiedawg]

Bird was always viewed as a better player but magic has 5 rings vs birds 3 rings. Also no one who knows ball has Bird outside the top 10, Bird is usually 7-8, Magic is 4-6

[@4amflexzone360]

I agree wit K-mart he broke it down perfectly ❗️You did that ❗️big respect i never looked at it like that.

[@truephone1687]

I dropped a like instantly when Kenyon got up to go too the bathroom . Authentic raw podcast .

[@CarolinaScorpio]

That made you horny huh

[@____2080_____]

There is no damn mount Rushmore if it doesn’t have Wilt Chamberlain on it. Yes, the entire conversation is silly because if you put these players in different errors, they’ll be able to fit in whether we’re talking about Elgin Baylor, West unsell, Jack, Sigma, or even Bob Cousy But, weather, you are the old man who chased his off their lawn, or the new Jack swing young fan, the rest of the NBA might as well never existed

[@brandonlee34444]

Wilt so over rated. He played In the 50’s and 60’s against non hoopers and only won two rings. 14 years 2 rings stop it.

[@latnassacin]

Bro you're bugging! That's like saying Ted Williams isn't one of the greatest hitters of all time. He's the last person to hit 400 but he doesn't have chips cuz the Yankess were STACKED just like the Celtics were in that era. Russell has 11 rings in 13 years.

[@brandonlee34444]

@@latnassacinlabelling someone with 2 rings as the top 4 greatest is craziness.

[@michaelgeraghty3989]

The 4 guys on Mt. Rushmore were creators, saviors and builders. Washington and Jefferson were two of the founders and creators. Lincoln saved the country. Roosevelt heralded in the century of America's rise to global preeminence. The NBA version might have Wilt and Russell as two of the creators of the modern NBA. Bird and Magic were saviors, transforming the NBA's popularity and financial success. MJ took the NBA to its pinnacle in popularity. Kobe and then Lebron would not be on the NBA Mt. Rushmore as they presided over an era of gradual decline.

[@bobmoz]

I have Jordan, Magic, Bird and Kareem as my Mt Rushmore

[@DOMS4.]

1) Mike: made basketball global 2) Bron: brought an end to player/team loyalty. Players can choose their own destiny. 3) Steph: no explanation needed 4) Wilt or Shaq: changed the rules

[@lilty221]

Lebron didn't change player/team loyalty 😂😂. Shaq was drafted in Orlando and played on how many teams? Kareem wasnt drafted by the Lakers either! But lebron did make the NBA a player's league instead of owners having all of the power.

[@And1overnike]

One of the better conversations I’ve seen on this show. I appreciate when k mart speaks with authority and keeps some order haha

[@penkima4923]

The GoaT equaling who changed the league most, is a bad take.

[@Caimon7]

@@penkima4923 its one of the factors for sure

[@JonathanRojasTv]

It’s not even just about him changing the game it’s the fact that he is still consistently the best at it, even though the league is all together getting better at shooting he still is at the top

[@loddydoddy638]

Wilt chamberlain changed the game. They literally made rules so that he won’t be avg 50 a game. Then it’s Jordan. He the first guard a team built there team around. If wilt was allowed to play in Shaq era he would’ve been just as dominant as he was before they change the rules on him. Curry changed the game but for the worst. Not his fault but I don’t think he deserves as much credit cuz players shooting 3s all game is lame especially when they not as good at it as curry

[@Bambino..]

Lakers built their team around magic who’s a guard. Your statement is false

[@Cakebattered]

Laker's didn't build around Magic. The 1978 Laker's were already stacked.

[@Dante_Kun]

Players shooting long ass distance

[@sergiodiaz2886]

You made good points until the curry one. That’s just you’re opinion it’s not a fact

[@raywright2401]

a 6'9' pt guard name Magic definitely changed the league and put the league on notice that LeBron was coming, another huge Pt. Guard.

[@gold6759]

There have been plenty of tall point guards

[@jahilane9907]

​@@gold6759who was the tall PG before Magic????

[@mhadiraw3235]

I hate when AI gets left out the “who changed the game” convo.. they literally made a rule because of his crossover

[@RenardGarzaro]

But who uses that crossover now? Can the big guys use it, does change the way you run a fast break or defend a fast break? Does it make every person not the opposing team help to try and stop him, does it demand a double or triple team?

[@penkima4923]

@@RenardGarzaro "does change the way you run a fast break" The clear-path rule was introduced because of A.I.. "Does it make every person not the opposing team help to try and stop him, does it demand a double or triple team?" The defensive three second rule was introduced because of A.I..

[@LeviWintersJr]

I wonder why Oscar Robertson's name is never mention when "Goat" is brought up. I'm 72 years old & have been watching basketball longer than all you ex players & Podcaster have been living. Oscar needs to be recognized although he only has 1 chip

[@jsj31313jj]

Changing the game does not make you the goat, but it does make you a "game changer."

[@arismaiden6457]

agree 100%, I mean you wanna put Shaq in the top 5 because he could dunk too strongly? and you re leaving out Kareem and Magic? wtf?...

[@rustynail1071]

*Too many 3's can be an issue as well. Sometimes change is not good.*

[@RenardGarzaro]

Do you know how hard it is to win rings or even get to the finals? He got to the finals 8 or 9 times, 8 of those in a row and won 4, the change was good.

[@penkima4923]

@@RenardGarzaro The Warriors won titles with their shooting, but made the NBA games look like lame 3-point contests. Steph is the worst thing that has happened to the NBA from the stand point of fans, who watch the games.

[@lloydgrimesjr1996]

Allen Iverson changed the game also. But yall seem to forget.

[@CaneCorsoShow]

But he doesn't have those rings ........... Steph almost put the Spurs down in his rookie year , one of the MOST DOMINANT teams eve.r He dropped 44 points on them in 2013

[@NYCBX9]

Bro, I’m in my 40’s been watching basketball since the 80’s and I’ve never seen a player actually changed the style of play for the entire league, they got centers and bigs shooting 3’s 🤯 that never happened in the history or basketball or just basketball ball overall, it’s not only the NBA. It’s a worldwide effect for every aspect of basketball.🤯 not even MJ23 did that. I’m a huge MJ fan, but Curry changed Basketball forever, they can’t go back to the old ways, that’s how impactful he is.

[@penkima4923]

@@NYCBX9 Impact, already has another meaning in basketball, and it's different from changing the game. The other players in the GoaT convo have a bigger impact on the court than Steph.

[@iamvalleyworld6582]

We got a couple of magic Johnson’s in the league tbh, not saying they better but the similarities are there

[@HeartOTC]

Steph, Shaq, MJ and Lebron is Mt. Rushmore. And Lebron may have not changed the game on the court but dominated for 2 decades, he definitely changed how the guys do business for sure! He shared information, his team off the court is impeccable, all of them is up 100M’s, and he’s at the table. I’m not even gonna run off what he’s done in the record books on the court. That’s why Bron is the goat to me. I’m not gonna argue who’s better but who’s done more for the game of basketball is LBJ no question.

[@diffuser2459]

Ain't no Top 5 without Tim Duncan Period.

[@TruthSpeaker4]

😂😂😂

[@boycottactivision]

LeBron, Kareem, MJ, Bird, Russell..

[@AquarianAngel]

Disagree.

[@terryxmcginnis]

Naw bro, you’re wrong

[@benjifittv1921]

MT Rushmore is 4 lol

[@antsaucykidd]

Gilbert arenas is on my mt. Rushmore for no rings 😂😂😂😂 played for 11 seasons & won 1 most improved player award

[@speeddatingforblacks]

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@jamehaynes266]

😂😂😂😂😂

[@bobbybrown5794]

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@Rowanravens5220]

I mean 3 time all NBA isn't nothing. He was the man.. him and d Wade are my favourites of all time just cause of when I started watching

[@LyricLabs_]

3x All NBA

[@BrianSwish]

Don’t let 30 win another fkn ring 😤😤

[@7odizzle78]

He won’t, Warriors ass and he definitely not the goat

[@Bagdrop24]

Called him 30 lol

[@TonyKureWorld]

Thats what they said 2022

[@Dipset415]

The league won’t let him surpass Lebron 💯

[@Bagdrop24]

@@Dipset415 his accolades n defense won’t, can’t be goat when u been targeted on defense ya whole career. Also wat goat has 1 fmvp

[@troytim3]

He’s in the GOAT conversation…he’s making a case for overall. Man is 🥶

[@RickRijuanaPro]

0:31 Damn. Who else was as underrated as Steph. Had as much impact or the amount of accomplishments.

[@RickRijuanaPro]

​​@@penkima4923 Your interpretation of what Brandon brought up where I time stamped it is clearly different than mine. They way I took what Brandon said was.... Who has more impact than Steph that wasn't a top 3 draft pick with hype & D1 offers from everywhere. Came out of high school. That went to a Mid Major. Or was physically gifted

[@Matthew-xl5bc]

Bron, MJ, Kareem, Hakeem

[@benmack4525]

Hakeem? I mean he’s good but no

[@UncommonFavor112]

Respect!!

[@TurKishsoulja]

Hakeem not even above steph lol. Stop it

[@dennisrradfordjr5411]

MJ ShaQ Steph and AI based off changed the game

[@jameswatson6]

Steph , LeBron, jordan ,and ? ( )

[@Freddy-kw5hq]

Here’s how you pick your 4 best players if you want to win we are not talking about stats we are talking about winning and putting the right players around him who is your first pick and so on

[@pimpmastaa101]

What is Gil smoking 😂😂 Larry Bird is in a lot of people’s top 5. Magic never won without Kareem another top player all time. I have Bird higher than Magic all time, Bird won 3 rings, 3 MVPs (same as Magic) in a tougher conference. The 80s West was like the East in the 2000s, the Lakers were guaranteed a finals berth pretty much every year, much like LeBron’s teams in the 2010s. You can make a strong case for Bird being a top 5 player all time. Gil said Bird isn’t even a top 4 SF wtf 😂 The only SF better than bird is LeBron, yes Bird is better than KD

[@baronperez8200]

These are my top 5, in their position if they played on the same team: PG-Steph SG- Jordan SF- Kobe PF- Lebron C - Shaq

[@charlesparrish764]

Longevity is the answer. Bird’s injuries took most of his last 3-5 years. Magic lasted longer. Took a team to the Finals in 90-91 against Michael.

[@michaelcuriba9574]

Kenyon Martin has the good point about the Position of Bird.. SG/SF/PF.. Magic was PG, arguably top 1 on that position.

[@ooxGoofyxoo]

Allen Iverson Changed The Game Also

[@Dante_Kun]

Yep, that long ass shirt

[@mmjj1361]

They can't even follow they own guidelines for the mount Rushmore. You can easily argue that MJ, SHAQ, and Curry changed the game. Lebron Marketability, and longevity are not game Changers. His accomplishments deserve a high level of respect yes, but those are not actual changes in the gameplay itself.

[@Dante_Kun]

Kinda makes sense

[@mmjj1361]

@@Dante_Kun Makes sense how?

[@Dante_Kun]

@@mmjj1361 makes sense

[@Fath0m73]

I like the way Nick Wright broke it down. Jabbar, Jordan, LeBron, and Magic. Some can argue Steph over Magic, but I think those are the five for greatest of all time. Realistically, as Gil mentioned previously, only three are going to be in the public discourse. I think Jabbar and Jordan should be the first two mentioned, in that order.

[@orkahn31]

I’m glad Kenyon Martin made them think about Magic Johnson! Players that never seen him play have been trying to replace him for years for faster point guards who were really shooting guards at the point.And for the record, Steph never said he was better than magic, he said magic was the bar, and that his 5 nba championships and what he accomplished can’t be dismissed.

[@michaelbryan3515]

I thought this was a steph for goat debate... all they talked about was magic! 😂

[@godstarproductions1106]

I feel what Areneas is saying the odds were stacked against Magic and he still came out bigger.. The whole GOAT convo is so subjective but fun

[@ralphthompson355]

Steph is not over Larry Bird nor Kevin Durant.

[@Vega_Sports]

Without steph Kevin has 0 rings.

[@kadevonbarnes1110]

No A.I.? He definitely changed the game !? Especially fashion everyone wanted tattoos nd braids 💯🐐

[@erikcortez23]

I just believe there should be a mount rushmore for each position… example “who’s the top 4 SG on rushmore” jordan, kobe, KD, Dwade that would cause better arguments per position

[@phenomfacemob1011]

Who is KD?

[@LSmoney215]

Gil dragging tf outta this convo after answered the question 5x 😂😂

[@whoodyGPonder-fj6hq]

My Top 5 Jordan Ko8e Magic LBJ SHaQ/Duncan/ Steph/Bird‼️ Yes there is A 4player Tie for my 5th spot 😅🤷🏿

[@casualt3350]

Bird is easily top 10 to counter Gil’s 11/12 statement. Besides that, Bird played less healthy years - 9 to Magic’s 14. And although both had some of the best assembled teams ever, there’s no denying that Magic had the best teammate anyone’s ever had in history.

[@ktillman2002]

Bird is 6'9-6'10... bird greater than Durant. They be tripping, sometimes.

[@hornworldbefree4490]

Highlight is Highlight!Proformance is key!

[@RedCGaming12]

Magics biggest knock on not being on the mountain is he had a team mate who many consider the goat Kareem his whole career.. imagine if shaq and Kobe players together their whole career somebody would have to take a backseat in terms of history

[@penkima4923]

You're not making sense why we should imagine that. Kareem was past his prime, when he played with Magic. And Kobe wasn't in his prime yet, when he played with Shaq.

[@randyholliday5626]

@@penkima4923how you make 9 All Star teams past your prime? Magics rookie year Kareem won his 6th MVP and averaged 33ppg and 14 Rebs in the 1980 NBA finals Magic had a superteam his whole career!! Magic had 3 other top 75 players Kareem, worthy, and Bob Mcadoo , along with Jamaal Wilkes, Michael Cooper, and norm Nixon the man had stars his whole career!

[@penkima4923]

@@randyholliday5626 Imagine if Shaq played for Orlando his whole career, like Magic played for Los Angeles.

[@itzanopinion]

@@randyholliday5626All Star teams mean you're popular w/the viewers....Just look at lebron's 19 AS Appearances...think he's been a top-10 player the last 10 years? Think NOT!

[@Me-sm9qk]

​@@randyholliday5626 magic have literally superteam in his his whole career imagine kobe have that kind of players in his careers he will win 10 or break bill rusell record

[@kofiadjei6404]

If we go by Kenyon’s criteria it’s Jordan Bron, Shaq, Steph for me and these are the players i watched in real time play and change the game.

[@mariorioriot]

Kmarts face when gil called bron the greatest center in nba history is comedic gold, we need a poster

[@wakeuptotheonepartyoverlor8797]

Let’s pair’em up. Who wins: Wilt and Kareem vs Bird and Magic vs Jordan and Kobe vs Lebron and Curry

[@2012JohnnyD]

Wilt Chamberlain, Oscar Robinson, Magic Johnson, Jordan, Kobe

[@Nuggetfinatic2166]

This is my 10 in no particular order: Jordan Magic Bird Kareem Duncan Steph LeBron Kobe Shaq Ginobli Some people might be shocked adding Ginobli in there but if we’re going with “game changers” dude perfected the eurostep to the NBA, changed the importance of the 6th man role and beat the US Olympic team.

[@toddty11]

He has a point because if you add a 5th to a BASKETBALL Mt. Rushmore you’ll have to add a 6th and 7th and after you do that they’ll have to play 7v7 and the courts are too small for that.

[@youngking8902]

Definitely agree with this how many people was saying Kobe shooting paper into the trash can tho😂

[@BBpaintball]

Who are you ranking ahead of Bird at SF? LeBron, Bird, Dr. J, Durant, Pippen is mine. Ranking him lower than 3 is crazy.

[@Doooooooo]

Kareem the most decorated from high school to the pros. Julius Erving dont get enough rec (I know he came to the nba late) but doc saved the nba in the 70s and changed the game as well. Michael Jordan himself said he got his game and visions from the doctor