THE LEDGE TRUMP SOLUTION

Smash Ultimate has a collisions problem on the ledge making it really difficult to trump certain characters. In this video, we have a fix!
Watch The Last Vid First: • THE LEDGE TRUMP EXPLOIT
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BACK TO THE LAB AGAIN!
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[@GimR]

Let me see them run skids 🏃🏃🏃‍♀️🏃‍♀️

[@itsameyoyo]

I thought of this the other day messing around with lucas, since you can DJCZ back to the ledge from stage. is that a ledge trump option or nah?

[@dddmemaybe]

@@itsameyoyo if the speed is good then definitely.

[@kaioshinon5954]

I knew this before ultimate came out xD ( almost ofc. still knew at the beginning xd )

[@GimR]

@kage link watch my last video. I go over that

[@GimR]

@@itsameyoyo yeah it's probably pretty good

[@Driff97]

"Most characters transition into their run animation on frame 10" Captain Falcon: frame 15 This is a crime how is this not fixed

[@ProStealthy]

*Fatality yelling in the background*

[@zanioxl3663]

Thats what y'all get for thinking falcon is still hype in 2020

[@carlosvalenzuela]

Exactly what I thought, poor Falcon :(

[@happyducky9872]

that's offset by 1 though

[@zethyr8833]

@Thomas Vitarelli he's a mediocre character. Like, there definition of mediocre. But his combo game, assssuuuuming you have the skill for it, it's downright beautiful to watch. Agile, aggressive, flashy combos. And it's always a good feeling to get a hard read with the falcon punch

[@theswedishblock]

Captain falcon - second fastest character in the game, yet he has a dash speed and turnaround the same as Zelda 😢

[@djjimmaster8261]

he just running so fast lol

[@platinumjazz_]

😭😭😭😭

[@th0rrr]

and to think that zelda's dash speed in comparison to her run speed is actually good (above average foxtrot), while falcons is trash since it doesn't match at all with his insane run speed, just saddens me. Why couldn't they just adjust his dash speed more to his run speed? It feels so clunky and stupid..

[@chrisnguyen2316]

Dev team must’ve thought falcon was too fast when sonic exists...

[@bubbubz5459]

His dash speed is decent, it's mostly his turnaround animation that hurts his movement

[@kfcblaziken495]

Uh oh... Back to the lab again.

[@omongogos]

S T I N K Y

[@angusgill7056]

oh no

[@z4ck261]

Back to the lab again!

[@MangoRiko]

Back to the lab again

[@1g889]

Not again!

[@michaelcastelpoggi1735]

GIMR my lunch break ends at 1 you’re killing me here

[@CRAgamer]

I know this is unrelated but, I love how smash players have no complaints with doing stuff like this yet some still hate shoto inputs.

[@Andrew-yt9rd]

Ledgetrump is literally a shoryuken input lol

[@lotus3272]

I play fighting games and Smash, and for the record I find it harder to do command inputs with the Shotos and Terry with an analog stick than with a dpad. I’m fine with that as it gives them more depth to their gameplay.

[@AaronRotenberg]

I think the psychological difference is how arbitrary the command inputs are. All of the inputs in this video are derived from the more fundamental behaviors that the characters already have. But there is no more fundamental input to a shoryuken motion-it just _is_ and you have to get used to it. Also, being able to do the command inputs is way more important to playing Ryu/Ken/Terry successfully than being able to ledge trump Pac-Man.

[@deangel9128]

Do people find it hard? I've always had an easy time doing the inputs. I just practiced them for a couple minutes and it just clicked

[@AaronRotenberg]

@@deangel9128 I wasn't able to do a shoryuken motion until I saw someone suggest thinking of it as forward -> shortened qcf. Then it still took me a few days before I could do it consistently in matches. Same thing with the 2x qcf super input for Buster Wolf. I couldn't get it consistently until I saw someone suggest doing it as qcf -> reverse qcf -> qcf (wiggling your joystick at the bottom corner, basically).

[@royalrice5191]

“To ledge trump on weird hitboxes, you have to be very technical” *Laughs in Mario Side-B*

[@zFunnyBoy_]

always be doing that, mario broken

[@UmbraVivens94]

*laughs in tether*

[@floods156]

Laughs in cloud up-b

[@combro7096]

Another note about the run skid method, is if you attempt to input a special during the skid, and before you hold forwards again, it'll be buffered the frame you leave the ledge (you get a neutral air if you try to jab during the skid). This is particularly useful for ness and lucas, who don't fall nearly as quickly using PSI magnet, and for incineroar, who can get the airborne version of darkest lariat to hit some characters who have lost ledge invincibility. Incineroar: kzbin.info/www/bejne/pZOli31vo6tobcU

[@itsyaboychipsahoy.7989]

Thanks Combro, bro.

[@itsyaboicourtney6080]

I'm confused. Can you rephrase how to do this again? I'm an incineroar main.

[@combro7096]

@@itsyaboicourtney6080 For EDC buffer darkest lariat, dash forwards, press neutral b (while still on stage), and then hold forwards again. For Skid Buffer, run to the ledge, and then right before you fall off, release the stick for about 2-3 frames, press b, and then hold forwards again right away. (Skid Buffer is a lot harder to time, but not too bad once you get used to it). After the lariat comes out, just hold backwards to stay on stage.

[@shemassb3453]

you're saying that lucas and ness can hit opponents with the psi magnent hitbox using this technique?

[@combro7096]

BrizDa Newwb Lucas and Ness get an extra dozen or so frames in the air with this. For them it’s more useful off of platforms. Ness is able to get just enough time to magnet and then pk fire before hitting the ground from battlefield platforms, and Lucas can fit in a fair.

[@josephf.2126]

Dang the 3 second stream was kinda fresh tho let's make a petition to unlist it

[@frogturtle]

Optimistic community: This new technique will hopefully make future Smash tournament gameplay more dynamic and interes- Sonic: Continues to stand on one side of the stage for 7 minutes

[@h-man1371]

Version 8.0.0: Run from it, dread it, time it out... The NERF still arrives.

[@AntlionUncletruthin]

This guy deserves more support. I don’t know how much he gets, but give him more. This is awesome stuff.

[@GimR]

ty!

[@PalPlays]

1:56 The music combined with GIMR's instructions make me feel like I am watching a yoga video.

[@asdffjsdjasd]

For a second I thought GimR was going shirtless under the lab jacket and got really excited. I guess the tech is kinda OK too.

[@DougBushMusic]

Best video on ledge trumping I’ve come across!! I’ve been trying to nail the trick from watching several videos I’m finally getting some consistency after just a few minutes. Well done!

[@Nick-nd6ng]

Found you on KZbin stories and love your content. I can tell you put a lot of work into all your videos and your overall channel is great. Also your thumbnails/titles are the best. I would love to see you make a teir list because of how knowledgeable you are regarding frame data and jank mechanics. Keep it up ❤️

[@marsigamesxd]

My body is ready Please say: Just get up attack

[@SamA-dn6hf]

This one of the most useful techniques ive seen in ult really appreciate it

[@ampersand7145]

I don't even need to watch this, and I already know the solution. Just get-up attack.

[@SirEnd3r]

I dont think the video is about what you think its about

[@joeallen8139]

They can’t trump if you get up attack the second you grab ledge

[@rickygatziii379]

Genius

[@brandon_yl_is_busted_af9316]

Don’t know if you’re just messing around or not, but you’re kinda falling for the bait of the trump. The opponent will just condition you into pressing a panic button and then fake you out with a trump, then punish your getup.

[@kennynguyen4984]

Joe Allen Yeah, but they can just buffer a b reverse aerial get up attack on the 0.5th frame to instantly get off of the ledge trump, it also gives you 5-78 frames of intangibility if you play a character that has an up-b that can offensively be used, also, You have to get 500 kos in cruel smash in order to activate this special input

[@jamesg1827]

Finally... The world is ready to know... finally...

[@Zombie-wi9jg]

I love dogs

[@jamesg1827]

@@Zombie-wi9jg Same :)

[@Zombie-wi9jg]

I have a dog :)

[@Zombie-wi9jg]

DOG GANG

[@jamesg1827]

GabryGamer Dragon 🤙🐶

[@TheSuperCasual2914]

Just got back to playing G&W, and I have to say I'm loving this character. Thanks Gimz.

[@MadSpace]

I main Palu and have been doing the 3rd method for several months now, but I never knew why it worked much better Thanks for the informative video Gimz

[@bees3707]

Thanks for the great vid, GIMR! This tech actually looks like something I'll use so thank you very much for this.

[@knexwiz289]

Great video! Will definitely start labbing this tech out next time I play.

[@adrianwhitson1035]

This is interesting and honestly some good work. Definitely a good thing to have more options. It's just sad that this tech is even necessary because of the ledge being such a convoluted, broken mess.

[@j_1819]

Very cool. Now I can win EVO...

[@loveliescrushing]

yeah about that...

[@Ekim2F94]

Imagine

[@Marc-rw3dd]

@@loveliescrushing maybe next year?

[@Crasher7]

You can also do the skid solution with the skid from a pivot. In addition that, if you do an extended dash into the ledge that puts you into your standing/walking thingy which can make the walking solution less obvious.

[@starling980]

Thanks Gimr, you’re my hero 🥺❤️

[@maxwell2162]

This was a great music review Anthony

[@Ruxaes]

Whats funny is I was doing the dash into reset controller stick into trump already because doing ledge trumps in this game already felt weird and found that working best for me. But I love the using an attack to two frame into trump, will practice and apply that! Thanks!

[@spreadlove8946]

A while ago i noticed that i missed way less trumps by dash till the edge, but i just thought that my timing sucked lol thanks for going into detail🙏

[@lelinkxf4090]

That sounds interesting for Inkling with the Splat Bomb setup

[@KT_FGC]

This deserves more recognition

[@cadaveredful]

It’s a shame this tech has such an off-putting name, but your explanation was thorough and well articulated. Thanks brotha!

[@gregward9236]

i found something with peach step one you footstool second float third throw the turnip down fourth fast fall fith jump sixth z-catch seventh footstool eighth repeat this only works at mid percents. works on DK, ganon, snake i have not tested everyone.

[@leswitcheur9031]

You can also do a little trick. If you dash and at the same time you use your cstick down, you will have your run animation for 11 frame and just after that animation you will just walk, it can be useful in this situation

[@dynax987]

I've been doing so many ledge trumps in ultimate that people tell me at my local " ledge trumping in 2020?" All jokes aside super good video and keep up the good work!

[@oliviergagnon8719]

Locals in 2020?

[@duvallj]

I’m mildly astounded that Nairo already uses a variant of this tech lol.. just shows how good he is ig

[@mordykinz4228]

:(

[@XenophesGM]

5:15 *Laughs in Captain Falcon*

[@shemassb3453]

The sound of thousands of training rooms opening up across the world

[@vyq6014]

Pretty cool!! Thx gimr!

[@tasium5296]

vyQ hey it’s the questionable beef man

[@GhizaSimp]

Hey gimr why don't you just release the stick just after you fastfall? I do it that way and everytime I release the stick it automatically trumps without doing the quarter circle motion since the character grabs the ledge automatically if there are no inputs

[@bdhjzbcdhz971]

You are helping my Inkling edge guard game

[@whaloob]

I main ROB and so obviously I have some incredible ledgetrapping tools, one of the main ones being gyro trump (dthrow gyro at ledge followed by ledge trump). Would this count as method 2?

[@Thecreeperboombox]

Loving the odyssey music

[@SusejFTW]

I'm by no means any 'good' at this game but I still watch all your videos because I find the developing meta & techniques you find super interesting. Thanks for the content lad.

[@GimR]

TY! Appreciate it.

[@l.t.c8.1.46]

Thank you fo being so thorough

[@nativechatter999]

GimR: So Ledge Trump Me: Dang GimR: aCTUALLY

[@salvatore_slate]

Does this work if they buffer get up attack?

[@Ekim2F94]

GimR is da real MVP

[@MiaoNya]

That undershirt blended in so much with your skin I legit thought you were wearing a bathrobe for a hot minute

[@ironmaidenshredd]

Love the videos

[@DrFate-dd7ek]

Wow works great! Thanks

[@Uatever11000]

Can you do the walk method with tap jump and coil?

[@GinoSC]

Thanks, this is super cool!

[@derodainfamous]

I love that thumbnail

[@jackherbic6048]

Where can you find that table that he showed?

[@poombus1223]

thank you mr footstool

[@nathancruz15]

Interested to see how this works with Jr. If you Up B out of kart, you grab ledge without the kart initially, but the kart eventually spawns in and increases your collision box. To the lab I go!

[@IamXSublime]

A lot of times when you dash at your opponent hanging from the ledge they get up attack if you attempt to trump them in this manner won’t they just get up attack and hit you. Since dash animations are so committal and you must wait for them to end in order to shield won’t you be vulnerable to get up attack if your trying to dash trump them? These are my first thoughts I’d love for a follow up response to this gimr! Love All your videos btw.

[@rosekorynn7995]

GimR!!! I had an idea while watching this video during the part where you talked about walking off ledge. Have you considered Dash Walks (or whatever you wanna call them) for the walk off trump method? I'm talking about that movement tech where you transition from your initial dash into a full speed walk using the c-stick's 1 frame directional input. I tested it out and, using that tech, I got my character's walk-fall animation instead of their run-fall animation. It doesn't work while close to the ledge, but it works about a single dash from the ledge. It's not much, but it's another option to compliment the roll at ledge method you showcased in the video

[@GimR]

I don't think dashes end until frame 20 so you'd need to be omega far from the ledge and it would take a really long time, but it def seems possible.

[@jacobonline6994]

Why did I only just get the notification for this

[@jacobcoates7987]

GimR making Smash great again. With trumps.

[@dreadfuljason4166]

But what about get up attack? J/k. You make the best tech videos, keep it up!

[@Letalight]

Which is optimal vs non-pacman ? This technique or the other one ?

[@dio4296]

Back to ledge trump again

[@phoenixinferno5148]

Where can I find the dash frame link?

[@colinclark7848]

How many frames is reactable ? 30? 20?

[@tinchogames2322]

Joker is frame 10 how do you do it?

[@A2ZOMG]

The real reason trumping isn't as good is both because of DI and because you have more options to avoid a trump in this game. Buffered ledge stand AND ledge drop avoiding trumps I feel especially make this mixup an unattractive commitment.

[@orrmatalon6853]

You can also di it

[@A2ZOMG]

@@orrmatalon6853 I mentioned that yea. I think if your character has reasonably reliable options for it, using moves that can hit ledge hang is generally the better option in this game.

[@themasterblaze7563]

Characters Like Corrin and Byleth get good value off of ledge trumps...

[@dddmemaybe]

Ledge trump is the only option to beat out ledge invincibility directly. waiting on stage might be better in some matchups however. and yes, ledge fall up air is good but if your opponent doesn't get hit by it they can auto spike you with their down air.

[@A2ZOMG]

@@dddmemaybe you don't need to ledgedrop Uair if your opponent tried to trump you because you're at the frame advantage. Just do any ledgehop aerial onto the stage. Especially if you have a lingering hitbox, they can't actually jump off the ledge into you. Also waiting out invincibility is much safer than trying to trump, because you don't risk giving up stage control, and you can still force unreactable mixups this way. It's only not preferred if your character doesn't have good attacks to hit ledge hang, which most actually good characters in fact do have.

[@itsyaboychipsahoy.7989]

What if they getup attack?

[@Aggelaki777]

What about sticky ledge run, can you skid out of that? If so we might see competitive use to such a funny tech even though it's slow to set up

[@m_chael]

please.. don’t give them a problem and solution the community will become too powerful

[@imaok10]

What about running off and air dodging into the ledge? Is that too slow to be practical? I feel like the roll into ledge takes long to set up?

[@GimR]

it could potentially work, it's just 100% reactable so most people will see the air dodge and buffer an option

[@ashemabahumat4173]

I'm fine with this being a character specific thing

[@barbarictearemedy]

Now please talk about how every single character gets pushed off the ledge to a different spot in the air when you ledge trump them. It’s a PAIN to miss ledge trump back airs because every character you ledge trump goes to a different spot from other characters.

[@TheWeedIsland]

MU knowledge I guess lol

[@Frog276]

imma lab this out for ken. i wonder if hell auto turnaround or if he bairs. if he bairs itll be great cuz that kills at like 80 if not dair or fair might work

[@jogbearcool8594]

Gimring 2.0

[@freeloguy3387]

What about wavedash into ledge? It doesnt work exactly how melee does but if u aim it correctly its not affected by collision boxes

[@GimR]

unfortunately wavedashing to ledge in this game doesn't push you off

[@BlitzProHD]

Are the half circles vital or can you just swith the stick direction right away?

[@GimR]

it's just easier in the long run imo

[@AHarmlessAnt]

I just have trouble with the half circle back. I've only managed to do it maybe twice

[@ethangraybrook-paul6388]

What game is the music from?

[@SaltyBoiJohns]

you're a mad lad

[@chidionoh]

What would we do without Gimr

[@williamP1307]

Very smart, I like it.

[@octopirate-bak]

what happens if you just wavedash off ledge? might be dumb but as a melee player i edgehog by wavedashing off ledge and fastfalling to grab - don't know if this would work with hitboxes and whatnot in ultimate

[@igzdoromal1392]

wavedashing doesn't edge cancel in this game

[@octopirate-bak]

@@igzdoromal1392 sad!

[@JLeaf337]

what about things like Swopple? that's where the hero dashes to ledge, charges upb to slide off and let upb loose, you've done that before but different. But main question, would there be anything like that for other characters that may apply to this?

[@valykire8547]

as mario you can run off and cape towards the ledge, that sort of thing right?

[@sheik124]

gonna stick with flip kicking into ledge trump

[@spidorz0554]

Can characters b reverse on t'he ground?

[@yesno4628]

yes, but it just turns them around. It doesn't do anything fancy like in the air, it just turns to whatever direction you reversed it to

[@ecgaming222]

who else thought gimr had a hella sunburn

[@godmaxer]

someone get this tech to dark wizzy, he uses the roll ledge trap to get grabs anyways. Adding this to his repertoire would be pretty scary

[@Galaxia_EX]

Is airdodging into the ledge to trump really that bad? I haven’t seen anyone mention at all. Also, how good is trumping anyway? I see it score kills every now and then but it doesn’t seem like a reliable kill option.

[@colbyschlabach8987]

for some characters ledge trumping is amazing, like mario, for example. he has his cape as a consistent way to trump every character. then he can go for back air.

[@GimR]

It's a tactic used for quick kills but also scaring your opponent while they're on the ledge so they know they can't just sit on it however long they want

[@donovanmahan2901]

Airdodging to ledge is too reactable, they can just roll off the ledge after they see it.

[@Galaxia_EX]

GimR's Lab Thanks for the reply! I saw ledge trump into back air being used a ton in 4 but I don’t see it nearly as much in Ultimate so I was kinda curious as to how useful it was. I also play Pit, who was some trouble killing, so I was considering implementing trumping into my gameplay to score earlier KOs.

[@Galaxia_EX]

Donovan Mahan Yeah I guess it doesn’t really have much utility then. I was just curious because I haven’t seen anyone mention it since release.

[@dylanh.3793]

slow mo Game and Watch down smash sounds really intimidating lol

[@narutoushiwa1046]

Did you know that you can cancel a dash into a walk if you tap C-stick down at the same time you are dashing and then release? It's really cool, but I wonder, can you do this to help with the skit method?

[@joshuacho3432]

naruto ushiwa10 wasn’t this a sheik specific tech?

[@randychavezjr6050]

2 vids in a week!

[@samuelwu9022]

how about running off the ledge and reverse up-B?

[@wintersummer1633]

i think it would be too slow and would give them enough time to just buffer a ledge option. it would also leave you vulnerable off stage

[@SgtKaito]

Are these better than snapping the ledge with a move like Byleth side b or Mario cape?

[@TheWeedIsland]

Yes since those have lag

[@SgtKaito]

@@TheWeedIsland interesting

[@TheWeedIsland]

@@SgtKaito With mario's side B it may not matter too much but Byleth's side B is slow to start, you should check the frame data

[@SgtKaito]

@@TheWeedIsland I mean you can snap the ledge before the hitbox comes out it doesn't seem slower than cape.

[@tamertamertamer4874]

well who needs to ledge trump when you can just kaswoosh

[@cyfer115]

BACK TO THE LAB AGAIN 😎

[@PersonaXlll]

Y not roll towards ledge empty jump (bait) and then do the trump i did this not realizing it was way easier to trump them...

[@taco-t-cup]

Oh, come on!! I just got here and he says he's leaving!