Giving Up On My 40k Competitive Dreams!

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In this episode of Models and Memories #184 Jay talks about playing in a Warhammer 40k Tournament and how he's going to be throwing in the towel for his competitive career! We have new videos every Monday, Wednesday and Friday!
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#warhammer40k #miniatures #gamesworkshop

[@EonsOfBattle]

Check out our new website for our Merch, Terrain STLs and Memberships! eonsofbattle.com/

[@RanjakarPatel]

never give up yaar. i very proud four u like son. u need be strongly four xcelent result. maybe read more the book four destroy opponent and make sadness there future four never play again. remember you have india support you. so you can crush every enemy my dear. i will help four you find wife.

[@HauntedCorpseGaming]

Love the content man, nothing wrong with playing casual games more often and not sweating the details as much.

[@pabloalonsolasagabaster658]

you finally beat shawn ?!?!?!?!?!?!? At last my man, at last... Congrats!!

[@billdefranza4927]

🎉

[@arielrueda7258]

He did once before, this is the second time

[@radiumminis]

I know thats gotta feel better then winning a tourney :D

[@GoufinAround_]

Dude, competitive play in a game that takes such high financial investment just seems like a fast way to ruin any fun that can be had

[@Dram1984]

GW is going to get bit hard when more people realize this and all the competitive whales move on to the next big thing.

[@whealler100]

thats why you have to buy a top 5 army or just cry

[@klaykid117]

They saw the money MTG made and knew they had to have even a small piece of that pie

[@drewbakka5265]

​@@klaykid117 Excatly it's slowly turning into mtg. And card players are the lowest of animals

[@11AleZZ]

​@@Dram1984what are you talking about?? Competitive 40k is a thing the last 20 years and each year is more popular

[@cenomnestpasvalide2201]

To me competitive 40k events is where you go to realize that the game in itself is not that fun, and that the enjoyment you have out of it is mostly getting to play with your toys among other nerds.

[@ad_astra5]

I don’t play yet, but I thought that’s why they made killteam? To have an actual competitive game

[@Dram1984]

@@ad_astra5 kill team was originally supposed to be very narrative driven. But of course the competitive scene have ruined it too. Lol

[@ad_astra5]

@@Dram1984 huh… got it backwards 😅. A narrative game sounds pretty fun tbf

[@cenomnestpasvalide2201]

@@ad_astra5 Maybe, i haven't played kill team. Though i didn't mean to say 40 was bad at competitive play, in fact it's more compatible with competitive than ever before. What i meant was competitive events reveal how fun (or not) a game really is since the social an narrative aspect are not nearly as much of a thing.

[@captaincorundum9788]

Comp is super fun. You get to meet tons of people and, in my experience, most of them are super cool. Sure, you'll have the occasional chud, but I've made life long pals through comp 40k.

[@neeeeeeeek9]

fluff>>>>>>>meta

[@Dram1984]

It will never not be funny that a game singularly unsuited to competitive play has become almost entirely dominated by it.

[@lefaux7235]

I agree 100%

[@NANA-bg1pq]

how can a game with a winner and loser be "singularly unsuited"? LMFAO Sounds like copium and loser talk.

[@Loserstakethebait]

@@NANA-bg1pq Because any game that is heavily based on rng is inherently bad for fair and serious competitions.

[@jorgeortizdiaz3794]

Also a game with a plethora of rules that change over time should never be considered competitive. Yet here we are

[@Willowo98]

@@NANA-bg1pq”a game with a winner and a loser” yeah let’s get right on competitive tic-tac-toe

[@Morlair]

"its not my army, its the maths army" I 100% feel you. Thats why I quit trying to rank in magic the gathering, using meta decks is no fun.

[@Bluewater1976]

I like the game, I don’t like the tournament scene and the outsized influence it has on the game overall.

[@dr.revenue3636]

Yeah couldn't have said it better myself. I did a couple tournaments and it really made 40k unfun to me...meta gaming 40k just doesn't get me going but I do understand folks who are into it.

[@bigtimepartytim]

Why does it ruin anything for you? Like if you are really a beer hammer kind of guy, why do you even care about getting the rules right or anything? Just like put your minis on the table, roll some dice, and have fun. Nothing about that has changed. The least fun I have ever had in this hobby is arguing my cousin over unclear LOS, cover, and movement rules in 9th. The most fun I have had is playing with new people, meeting new friends, and enjoying the strategic depth of the game and being able to call a judge to help us learn niche rules interactions if we get stuck on something.

[@dr.revenue3636]

@@bigtimepartytim Sorry, that didn't like turn me off of 40k or anything, I just mean those games were simply not fun whatsoever. Casual 40k is the best 40k in my opinion!

[@Trukson79]

@bluewater1976 sorry to hear that, I have the opposite experience. It's a huge hobby, hopefully we can all find our corner! 😊

[@dr.revenue3636]

@@Trukson79 That's the beauty of it! Something for everyone. Friend groups, power gamers, homebrew rules, and of course...modelling and painting!

[@Lord_Vesh]

This is why I love Necromunda, the game isn’t the most balanced (looking at you ridgehauler) but it doesn’t need to be. It’s a game designed to facilitate storytelling and immersion. When my forge born with a storm welder (who took down four guys and exploded in the effort) is taken captive, I’m not worrying about the meta, I’m worried about rescuing my damn forge born.

[@FSDarkWatch]

See you need to discover the wonderful world of being “Casually Competitive” your analogy with the violin isn’t 100% correct. I try my best to pull every ounce of power out of lists. You do need to tailor your lists. That’s true. But you can also just work and improve your play. Yeah you may not take down the event that way but you can have a good time and a good record with most army lists. (Not always but it is possible)

[@timunderbakke8756]

You also need to have lots of practice. I used to be here - never at tournaments but playing with the people who did. But I can’t keep up with the time commitment these days so I think I fell back a little into just casual.

[@FSDarkWatch]

@@timunderbakke8756 yeah. I’m not balls to the wall competitive but I do enjoy competitive play quite a lot. I don’t shame anyone who isn’t into it. But I really get alot out of it. I’ve also played on several teams and having a group of people who all like that kind of gameplay and help each other learn. It definitely helps keep you into it.

[@Nipa96M]

I feel you. In my local club it is known or rather decided that I play so called "blondie 40K" aka I see an option to do something or splitfire and I do it, no questions asked. I kinda like it because I like to be a goofball and that way of playing makes the game most entertaining for me. Sadly the people in my club started to make a connection between me playing care free with me being either simple or bad at 40K which tbh stang a bit. So I packed my Thousand Sons, made a list where I have biggest amount of cabal points and way to do same spells twice and then I played really cagey. Opponent was my good friend who is known to be one of our best and most active 40K players and he played Blood Angels. With the terrain blocking tricks you explained in this video and spending all of his time not being able to shoot nor run straight at me. The game ended with him making total of 3 charges in the whole game and shooting only one models guns. I bet he didn't have too much fun in that game, but he and the others did find it very impressive for me to dominate that hard. I was in total control from start to finish. To be fair I did kinda like that feeling and being the master mind, so I don't totally cross competetive play off, but to be honest that's not me. It's not that fun to crack jokes when the other player doesn't get to play and once they might find it cool to have a real challenge, but not every week. I rather play with one stompa and beg my opponent to not shoot at him for he is just a little guy.

[@suspecthalo]

“. . . One stompa . . . He is just a little guy,” wait a minute

[@MrProthall]

A game that is no fun to you is a bad game, simple as that. If Warhammer becomes unfun in competitive, it's a bad game to you. So don't bother, just enjoy yourself. It's a game, not a job.

[@danjones3012]

If an army didn't cost on average $1200-$2000 to buy, build, and paint depending on how much you spend on the hobby; it's not a casual investment for most, especially nowadays.

[@sirrathersplendid4825]

Let’s face it, it was never very good as a game. If it were in GW’s interest to allow it to evolve naturally using player feedback it would be a cracking game today. But of course, $$$ comes first.

[@GhostMaker00]

As someone who won world wide war and 'ardboyz new competive 40k is cancer. I've never met so many sweat lords. I've played since 2000 for reference.

[@Dram1984]

@@GhostMaker00 around 2003 or so my FLGS literally kicked people out of the store for being “breadry” as they called it. Purposely exploiting rules and playing to win at all costs was considered really bad form and they recognized that it just made the game less fun for everyone.

[@GhostMaker00]

@@Dram1984 Ya makes sense, I wonder if they welcome the current beards. lol

[@gk7003]

Amen to that!

[@lordmaahesdoesstuff]

I'm 100% behind this sentiment, I see a lot of people playing really competitive games down the club. I even took part in a recent league, but for me having fun with the models I've spent time on is paramount. Yes I can have fun losing, but I want there to be a narrative to my game. Even if it's just in my head!

[@Beedji]

"Oh no !... Guess you'll need to buy more stuff :(" - Games Workshop

[@sirrathersplendid4825]

Exactly! I bet they have psychologists on their staff. They certainly don’t have good rules writers.

[@zodiac3981]

The problem I have with competitive play for anything, whether it's a wargame, tcg, or whatever else, is that it doesn't really encourage creatively. You have to play the best stuff and maybe one thing that isn't optimal.

[@sisterkatherine3409]

Why is a Land Raider holding the home field and not supporting your push?

[@Krachbumm-Ente]

Because he's a casual. He, and many people who follow this channel apparently, simply lack the competitive mind set

[@nopopop6048]

Hmmm based on your story it sounds like Shawn is inadvertently cheating. Tank Commanders hit on 4s, and can only get to 3s with an order from Lord Solar since TCs lack the Squadron keyword and can't be ordered by each other. I do not think it's possible to get them to hit on 2s at all in 10th (except for the Vanquisher, which has Heavy, but he's running a demo cannon). Also, the "fire on death" ability doesn't work at all if they're in engagement range when they die as Big Guns Never Tire is ONLY active in your shooting phase and it shooting "as if it were your shooting phase" doesn't count (thanks for the clarity GW). 40k in general is too lethal and too biased towards taking the best possible things which I find frustrating. So often there are options that are simply mathematically worse (bolt pistol vs plasma pistol, for instance).

[@wesleyridge9696]

My opinion on competitive play is that 40K is like most table top games in that a lot of the fun comes from the people you play against

[@ludvigadvin1163]

this makes me so sad. I go to tournaments all the time and your experience sounds horrible. Usually people are really generous with take backs and even banter during the game. I also think that your view of the list making all the difference is just wrong. A better player can absolutely "make their violin sound beautiful" or what you said :)

[@StealthVenturi]

Please can we have a studio tour Jay?

[@shadowslayer7892]

Competitive exists to keep the super sweaty players distracted and keep our beerhammer safe

[@Dram1984]

I miss when it was consider rude to play to win at all costs. It’s amazing how much the community has changed, we used to deal with broken rules by just not being jerks and not exploiting them.

[@jmswillow5969]

FGS lol. Went to an adoption and part of your goodies was a travel size of febreeze.

[@canadianbigmac3501]

Difficult to do when nobody wants to play beerhammer at my house

[@captaincorundum9788]

You can have both. Most of my comp experiences have been wildly positive where I play people that are into chit-chat and a beer after the game.

[@marcbowling6451]

I've not played a single tournament and just play at a buddy's house. Having said that - wow, that is such a douche comment.

[@Retrosicotte]

40k shouldn't be played as competitive anyway, the disproportionate attention it gets has ruined the ruleset.

[@Dram1984]

100% agree

[@Proto1Dude]

One million percent correct! I've been accused of "gatekeeping" for not wanting to play with the objectives deck.

[@whealler100]

Yes it should, but also yes it has, and it didn't have to.

[@arielrueda7258]

I think everyone should be able to enjoy the hobby their own way, and for some people that is competitive play. The problem is GW balancing the armies by looking at the competitive results, it makes it harder for casuals to play with fun shit just because it is cool

[@Dram1984]

@@arielrueda7258 it’s hard to please both crowds and since 40k was first a casual beer and pretzels game I vote we get to keep it and competitive players can deal with “broken” rules :p

[@Jonny.Y]

Don't give up!!!

[@tacotots_132]

I agree with your assessment 1000%. That’s how I feel aswell! Congratulations on beating Sawn but sorry to hear about your last place. I know you had worked hard. Keep up the hard work in areas that bring you the most enjoyment!

[@warpstoneenjoyer8293]

The worst part of tournaments has got to be that there is physically not enough time to chat with your opponent, if you stop to chit chat you will hit the clock without even realising it. There's no room for anything except the game

[@Dram1984]

It’s insane that games take so long. I swear every action not has like 20 re-rolls on it.

[@captaincorundum9788]

I haven't had that experience.

[@Haruki2009]

Day 86 of asking Jay to paint a skitarii

[@TheUndeadslayer221]

You could just bring a meme list like that one guy I know did (he got like 3rd place; He was running 200+ guardsman).

[@BerenMace]

Whatever Shawn is telling you about the Tank commander, but it hits on a 4+ just like the normal Russ and cant even receive orders from anything besides Lord Solar. So if he runs the Lord he can push it to 3+ but thats it

[@RPGCOMPANY]

If I remember correctly, around 9th edition GW partnered with “pro” 40K teams and some KZbin tournament players. At first for marketing, but shortly after and still to this day they exclusively play test new rules and provide the primary feedback. I much prefer the fluffy, fun, and old style of list building and gameplay. But with the right group you can still make it work!

[@Akina_TTV]

yeh its ok to not be a tournament player. the issue a lot of people have is they think of it as a ladder where you progress through casual play and achieve tournament player status. they exist side by side, its ok to be someone who enjoys tournaments and its ok to be someone who enjoys casual play. pick the path that suits you

[@CallMeSovereign]

Tank commanders hit on 4s natively and can only be ordered by Leontus fwiw

[@jameszeropr]

I still playing tournaments for two reasons: 1) the practice leading up are the most fun games I ever play... 2) helps set an event to have hobby goals and time to play.

[@kylemckiernan1445]

Lol tournaments are the biggest motivator to work through my pile of shame

[@jameszeropr]

@@kylemckiernan1445 exactly! 💯

[@djm6189]

Hearing Jay feel bad about list building and if you dont min max the shit out of any list you run, you might as well accept defeat before you hit the table is so cathartic. I play space marines, and I can't tell you how many times I've tried to move forward to be aggressive and immediately got tabled by the bottom of turn 2. "Oh, it should be impossible to be tabled that early, just play hyper competitively and don't ever move or expose anything. But still shoot while behind ruins and out of line of sight and spike 6's and you'll win." I'll never be mad at people who are good and know how to play, it just feels like even "friendly" games can be hyper sweaty. The best I ever did in a game was keeping everything behind ruins and not shooting and bearly moving for 3 turns, I still lost but at least I had minimal fun while playing! Ugh, I gotta get good.

[@brycedery9596]

Play people who do it for the fun, not the points.

[@gamergotguns1376]

Its not that you cant go out, Im sure you know about this but its about proper staging and screening for your army. in lore, space marines are the elite of the elite, but wierdly in game they are what GW uses as their midpoint for balance. They aren't the Custodes who walk up the board shrugging off fire and every army can and will beat you, when in lore... a guard regiment would be dismantled by like 20 marines. Knowing this is about knowing your army strengths and weaknesses. If your a blood angel, Dark angel, or Black Templar player, moving cautiously until you have one big "Go Turn" and rush all together is a strong strategy. Shooting armies need to apply threat not just kills. You need to think about what angles your opponents will get and also know what options you have in case they do. 40K in 10th edition is very shooty, guns are good and hit hard, I recommend playing with dense competitive game boards and player set terrain with positioning rules.

[@captaincorundum9788]

I play stupid lists all the time and do fairly well. The game is won in movement 90% of the time.

[@djm6189]

@captaincorundum9788 I've heard that the game is won in the deployment phase, and "it's not till turn 2 that you know how the game is gunna go." Even with base movement and some advance rolls I always seem to be completely exposed to something.

[@Ruggedtoaster]

Entirely get what you’re going for competitive play is the death of fun for me. Every time someone just adamantly declares that not liking tournament play means you’re just bad at the game. I always ask why they don’t play competitive chess because it’s the same thing. Endlessly studying rules interactions is much more important then playing the game to know the perfect winning combo. Because competition is not about fun. It’s about winning and it just feels gross to me.

[@primarchcharlemagne3933]

Make the Drukhari your comp army. It’ll be a night and day difference in your win/loss ratio. Don’t give up Jay

[@swakage13x]

You mean like that one guy my brother was telling me about a few weeks back that is literally like 49 to 50% of their win-loss ratio

[@SeasonofWar]

Sounds like you need to play Age of Sigmar! Armies and lists are generally super flavorful, the new edition is extremely engaging, and the community at large really prioritizes sportsmanship!

[@Attan20]

The beautiful thing about 40K is that there’s space for each kind of player. For me, competitive play is where I have fun - I love min maxing and trying to build an optimized list, it’s like trying to solve a puzzle, and I like analyzing on how games went and how to improve. But there’s no right or wrong way to play 40K as long as both people playing are enjoying themselves.

[@40k4noobs]

Eon List (2000 Points) Space Marines Black Templars Righteous Crusaders Strike Force (2000 Points) CHARACTERS High Marshal Helbrecht (120 Points) • 1x Ferocity • 1x Sword of the High Marshals Lieutenant with Combi-weapon (70 Points) • 1x Combi-weapon • 1x Paired combat blades Marshal (80 Points) • Warlord • 1x Master-crafted power weapon • 1x Plasma pistol BATTLELINE Assault Intercessor Squad (150 Points) • 1x Assault Intercessor Sergeant ◦ 1x Astartes chainsword ◦ 1x Heavy bolt pistol • 9x Assault Intercessor ◦ 9x Astartes chainsword ◦ 9x Heavy bolt pistol Primaris Crusader Squad (140 Points) • 1x Primaris Sword Brother ◦ 1x Heavy bolt pistol ◦ 1x Power weapon • 5x Primaris Initiate ◦ 5x Bolt pistol ◦ 5x Bolt rifle ◦ 5x Close combat weapon • 4x Primaris Neophyte ◦ 4x Astartes chainsword ◦ 4x Bolt pistol Primaris Crusader Squad (140 Points) • 1x Primaris Sword Brother ◦ 1x Heavy bolt pistol ◦ 1x Power weapon • 5x Primaris Initiate ◦ 5x Bolt pistol ◦ 5x Bolt rifle ◦ 5x Close combat weapon • 4x Primaris Neophyte ◦ 4x Astartes chainsword ◦ 4x Bolt pistol Primaris Crusader Squad (140 Points) • 1x Primaris Sword Brother ◦ 1x Heavy bolt pistol ◦ 1x Power weapon • 5x Primaris Initiate ◦ 5x Bolt pistol ◦ 5x Bolt rifle ◦ 5x Close combat weapon • 4x Primaris Neophyte ◦ 4x Astartes chainsword ◦ 4x Bolt pistol OTHER DATASHEETS Black Templars Repulsor (200 Points) • 1x Armoured hull • 1x Heavy onslaught gatling cannon • 1x Hunter-slayer missile • 1x Repulsor defensive array • 1x Twin heavy bolter Black Templars Repulsor Executioner (235 Points) • 1x Armoured hull • 1x Heavy onslaught gatling cannon • 1x Macro plasma incinerator • 1x Repulsor Executioner defensive array • 1x Twin Icarus ironhail heavy stubber • 1x Twin heavy bolter Primaris Sword Brethren (150 Points) • 1x Sword Brother Castellan ◦ 1x Astartes chainsword ◦ 1x Heavy bolt pistol • 4x Primaris Sword Brother ◦ 4x Astartes chainsword ◦ 4x Heavy bolt pistol Primaris Sword Brethren (300 Points) • 1x Sword Brother Castellan ◦ 1x Astartes chainsword ◦ 1x Heavy bolt pistol • 9x Primaris Sword Brother ◦ 9x Astartes chainsword ◦ 9x Heavy bolt pistol Terminator Squad (175 Points) • 1x Terminator Sergeant ◦ 1x Power fist ◦ 1x Storm bolter • 4x Terminator ◦ 4x Power fist ◦ 4x Storm bolter ALLIED UNITS Callidus Assassin (100 Points) • 1x Neural shredder • 1x Phase sword and poison blades Exported with App Version: v1.20.0 (44), Data Version: v464 Something like this is more competitive

[@rjscorpion8892]

You should play larger tournaments where the 2nd day they group people based on wins and losses. My 1st tourney was August and I got stomped 1st 2 rounds, but those last 3 were super fun

[@jimmy_the_sound]

What about a Canos Rex with the Las Impulsar or Castalan with Volcano Lance to smoke those Rus's? 😅😅😅

[@dmeep]

If you build fluffy list for competetive events you should not expect to finish anywere above last. Try to attend a narrative event and you might fare better. Also you need to play the same list over and over again to really get the nuances of your list down. Someone have to get last place an until you have practiced enough that i most likely going to be you if you dont play a lot more then the guy that got second last. your opponent play a huge part of enjoyment with wargames so in a tournament it can vary wildly. but kudos to figuring out that competetive play is not for you. Having fun is the point of your hobby and if playing against your friends is fun and tournaments are not then stick to having fun

[@Cuthbo]

I've played for years and been to tournaments. I don't think I've ever actually enjoyed the games themselves (and I've lost 99% of games). But I enjoyed the atmosphere and the post-game banter, and the idea of it.

[@doomdog797]

You should be playing narrative to be honest. Fun lists with fluff.😊

[@thetiredboy6607]

Jay, you’re the kind of player I’d rather play against. I’m not interested in hyper sweaty min/max lists. I just want to put some cool shit I like on the board, throw some dice, have some laughs. Beer and pretzels type Warhammer.

[@muratferguson4534]

You should look into the rules of your tournament. I already played about 15 tournaments in 10th edition. We in germany just play WTC rules which never deny a charge because of this 1" rule behind ruins.

[@pabloalonsolasagabaster658]

tank commanders no longer hit on 3s, right? Is shawn cheating XD ? or am I wrong?

[@InterplanetaryTourist]

You're right, it's 4+s natively

[@hardrada8407]

With take aim from lord solar they do

[@captainweekend5276]

Also not reminding your opponent of the shoot on death is a mega gotcha moment, since it's not immediately obvious which Russ is the commander unless you go out of your way to make it very obvious. It does seem like Shawn is the type of guy who only wins because he hides what should be public information.

[@pabloalonsolasagabaster658]

@@hardrada8407 in the video jayvsays that tank commander hots on 3s but can be ordered to hot on 2s

[@toeb1n]

I know they're buddies, but I have no idea how Jay can still play against him and have fun at this point.

[@MephistonSniffsBloodpowder]

I think one thing that would make 40,000 10x more fun almost instantly would if it adopted Killteams alternative activation "you use a unit, I use a unit" turn type. Way more fluid and interactive that "you take your entire armies' turn where you either wipe 50% of your opponents army or do nothing because they've hid it all behind cover"

[@rashiro]

Did I just watch a video from someone who plays Black Templars try and claim they're bad in competitive play?

[@grahambaxter4112]

Couldn’t agree more Jay. Competitive play isn’t fun 😏

[@Scotty86doo]

Sounds like alot of the problem is the lack of alternating activations in 40k, the fact you gotta hide your whole army for a turn to do anything proves it. I wanna try 10th edition but id probably enjoy Grimdark Future more.

[@converseroo101]

All the tournament games I’ve been to in the U.K. thankfully people have been pretty good at letting you know about strategems and playing with intent. Things like backing away because someone didn’t consolidate - that feels a bit “gotcha” to me. I would take it on the chin, but it’s not something I would do to something. I would say either “don’t you want to consolidate in?” Or before I go to make my play point out that they haven’t consolidated so I will move back, do they want to nudge in. With core rules it’s a bit more forgiving because it’s the same with every army but with that tank commander example, that’s definitely something to call out I feel

[@oneeyedwonderer6781]

40k has had all the fun mathed out of it , set unit size , almost all wargear removed , very little keyword rules . Its bland as all hell.

[@TwinkieS0n]

Holy cow! Jay you did it! A “how” and I didn’t cringe! Just keep it up buddy! Also my gf says to trim your fingernails

[@aaronabel4756]

Read Tony Bath's Ancient Wargaming for inspiration on how to play wargames. It's a totally different approach than moving soldiers into a plastic circle for points.

[@skwoogle]

Competitive for anything can be really fun, but you have to be of the mindset that you really need to win. I do that with counterstrike, but 40k for me is about imagining the battle. Using a hunter killer missile on a single crisis battlesuit? Not practical. But I'm just imagining him standing next to his buds chilling until he just turns into a fine mist.

[@tristanellis-mascoll1171]

Welcome back to the hobby side of 40k. Sounds like your dive into sports 40k was very short

[@dawidkowalewicz5845]

You know one day you will win 6 times in a row and you will realize it does not give you the satisfaction you'd expected. And we love you either way Jay!

[@MegaJiffyman]

As a competitive SM player, just take 3 gladiator lancers and win every shootout

[@mtgplayer1239]

Cheater Shawn got defeated? Finaly!

[@brycedery9596]

You're not missing anything, the competitive game is anathema to playing fun scenarios; plus its where the sweaties hang out.

[@ryanunderwood9090]

I totally remember when the Landraider Crusader first came out...and I feel way older now.

[@EvilVampMuffin]

Welcome to tourny secne, lol. End of the day its about being the best, not having fun or a narrative lol.

[@kamakazi339]

When Jay finally realized he's more of a hobbiest than a competitor

[@jeremiahshepard6566]

Sounds like you have to be "That Guy" to be truly competitive

[@heromedley]

TIME FOR COMPETITIVE AOS SPEARHEAD BABY LETS GOOO

[@TacticalMetalhead]

Firstborn Crusaders are hella underated, and they're AWESOME

[@TacticalMetalhead]

If a game is fun with friends, then it's a bad game. It should be fun without friends. Friends can make mopping a floor fun.

[@jamesgarrett1300]

Huh? Not every game can be solitaire.

[@TheDarkChaplain]

We're finally leaving the competitive gamer arc, woop

[@chrisprime7767]

From my experience, Marines die like flies, they're not tough enough. That's why you pick the 5 up fnp vow. I think you've been running the sustain hits or lethal hits?

[@Happyjethappy]

Power creep is too much when t4 3+ 2 wounds is soft

[@billdefranza4927]

When will we get the "HOW?" supercut? When? wHeN?

[@francismahon2]

Practice with that list constantly and get reps. I was captain of WTC Team Ireland 3 years ago. Our sisters player had 500+ games with the same list. He won every game.

[@chrisprime7767]

Exactly, I've been playing the same Detachment the entire year and you'll learn your list inside out. A bummer that people keep giving up after a few Ls

[@francismahon2]

@@chrisprime7767 Its the only way to win with the ever changing meta. Meta chasing will get you nowhere and burnt out quickly. Get to the point where regardless of the opponents army, you know you gameplan and score your objectives.

[@Aethon988]

Go competitive in Conquest. I saw the photos from their World Series and the top players go to eat and swim on a Greek Island while playing games. The whole thing look unreal compared to what most wargamers are used to.

[@mandalorian1]

I would just like to say i have been playing ultramrines for over a year now and i have been watching you since then.

[@misturmoogle]

Unfortunately cannot be fluffy and competitive.. it just doesn't work at tournaments.. the sweats are there

[@Krachbumm-Ente]

Tell me you haven't played 40k 10th edition without telling me you haven't played 40k in 10th edition

[@gyrfalcon-6]

The problem with tournaments is you got to be sweaty as hell and if you have more fun smashing models together in the middle of the map then that's how you play 40k

[@frankyuengling8074]

The only way you ever truly lose is not to play.

[@mariuskoch9738]

it not hit on 3 only with orders

[@Midsiest]

“It’s not gonna be MY army, it’s going to be the math’s army” is a perfect way of describing it and I couldn’t agree more. I’ve loved competitive 40k and put a ton into it but I’ve been feeling burnt out recently because of the inability to have anything feel like MY army and not be met with “why would you ever take that??”

[@chrisspyroman]

40k being dominated by waac and wtc is one of the reasons why Horus Heresy si growing so much in these past years GW alienated a good chunk of people who loved complexity and fluff, as opposed to chess like balance shit. That included myself and I never looked, fuck 10th edition

[@adammajor123]

40K is fun, competitive 40K is less so - the difference comes when spending money to get the ‘best’ units and playing that ‘you take me out unless I take you out first’, it becomes expensive and less fun I the actual games. Good analysis Jay!

[@SpottedHares]

Yea competitive player ruin just about everything they touch. They ARE the adults screaming at everyone’s kids at pewee sports.

[@Gromeish]

I disagree, play fun lists that can do the missions and you will be fine. You will win games but not events. This is Because of GW's pursuit of balance, the pilot/commander is more important than the list he/she is bringing. Unless the two commanders are of equal skill then matchup/list starts to matter more. As a note always remind your opponent of rules if they are about to make an obvious blunder, like walking cultists near a flamer, or about to shoot your tank commander. Its just a better way to play. Competitive 40k is not about surprises and feels bad moments. Its about making a list, learning to pilot it and seeing how far you get. Just don't be scared of losing and don't take it personally. If you're in a active community you will probably lose more than you win for the first year or so. Im over 2 years into Competitive play, love every moment and still lose 60% of my games into other Competitive players... someone needs to be losing 😅

[@justinmsc5]

Honestly, giving up pretty quick. Most people get bodied in their first couple tournaments... forget rules, not do their best, and feel bad about it. But people only make a mistake once. I don't mean this in a mean way, but after two tournaments, it's unlikely you actually "kind of got really good at 40k competitive play". I'd recommend you stick it out a little longer. I can see you being one of those die hard Black Templar players, crusading to every tournament regardless of how meta the faction is. That's up there with Orks as most fun opponents to play against, even if every other edition you're guaranteed to be in the loser's bracket.

[@nicholasd7107]

Seems like this could all be fixed (and quickly) by reading the core rule book and getting more reps in. Don’t give up on “competitive” 40K play. It’s a lot of fun and at a local hobby store gives you an excuse to go get 3 games of 40K in. Usually against armies you would never play against either. Not much fun if you’re just playing against your buddies army that’s he optimized to beat your army and vice versa. Don’t run from competition in life, embrace it.

[@elidhx6635]

all rules make 40k worse. that's my radical inquisitor opinion.

[@jag1519]

I played in person for the first time last week, buddy I met at the game store. We had such a blast. It was a good back and forth with what we had, we didn't even count points beforehand. We just put roughly the same amount and types of models down and went at it. At the end I had two units, he had one. His had a plasma pistol and overcharged it- Snake eyes. Exploded and killed him. He immediately laughed so hard. I've played only through TTS before and it was much the same. If you're not imagining the fight playing out and having a blast win or lose then you're really missing out in my opinion.

[@chrisfinnegan4103]

Sounds like you have never played a real competitive 40K player. People will let you and remind you for small things about their armies. Not for gotchas. I’ve made so many friends at large GTs and team events. I would try again and try to play by intent and learn how to do that.

[@beardyhat9547]

I've had this similar struggle after doing several tournaments for Age of Sigmar and Bolt Action. While I really like a majority of the people at these and will probably still go to Bolt Action tournaments just for the people, competitive play just isn't fun for me either. I play games (be they video or wargames) to relax and have fun, maybe BS with some buddies and competitive wargames just are not that. I don't want to have to be hyper focused for hours upon hours, often (in the case of Warhammer tournaments) for two days on end, it's exhausting and by the third game of the first day, I'm all done and just don't want to be there anymore. I agree with everything you've listed, from the competition to the list building, to the "meta", it's all just not fun for me. I don't regret the tournaments I've done, but I'm pretty sure I am, in fact, done, with them. It's not my scene.

[@NewtypeFarseer]

One thing I don't really like competitive is that some armies make you use models that you don't like to stand a chance. I play Eldar and still strugle with it. It's suggested that I take Yvraine, Visarch and Troupes deathball. The thing is I don't really like Yvraine's model and 50/50 on the Harlequin's looks.

[@midknight9327]

12:19 there is barricade rule to fix that 15:30 also if you get good competitively you can pretty much win with any list i swear, this is just egregiously wrong

[@benstaffordson7163]

"It's rules as written vs rules as intended" in regards to move blocking on ruins? It's the same thing. They clearly answered in the FAQ that it's 100% intended to block charges that way. And you need to stay greater than an inch away from the wall. If you're half an inch away from the wall, they can charge and get within 1" of you to fight. The tank commander doesn't need to have the demolisher cannon. And it hits on 4's, not 3's. And because it's not a squadron unit, the only model that can give him +1 to hit is Leontus. And it doesn't have to die to shooting - whenever it's destroyed it gets to fire back. If you melee a tank and it explodes, killing the tank commander, the tank commander gets to shoot on a 2+. It's fair not to like competitive 40k, but this comment section makes me laugh. It might shock them to realise that most competitive players also play casual games outside of tournaments and that they aren't buying the best models, but rather they collect the entire army. If the knight atrapos is ever not trash for chaos, I have one. And a magaera. And 2 questoris. And the castigator. And a lancer. And soon a prophyrion. They aren't rushing to paint something after it got buffed, they've had them on their shelves for months.

[@Grooviebones]

I feel like I can tell Shawn's thought process in real time lol. -"Hmm, my infantry walked up and died to sponson weapons, but my Tanks got some point value, I know I'll switch out the infantry that got 0 point value and add in 2 more Russ!"

[@gk7003]

Competitive 40k, especially the modern kind , isn't real 40k. That's why you had a bad time because you know what real 40k and wargaming is actually about. Not this fake try hard wannabe crap that is the competitive scene that is infiltrating and destroying 40k currently.

[@MrSniperbo]

My local RTT scene is a complete shark tank. About 20-24 players, but all of them have played 100+ competitive games. They have been at multiple GTs, Majors and all sorts. I have been to two RTTs and gone 1-2 at both. No shame in losing! I have learnt an absolute ton, I think playing in the competitive scene requires a mindset of it's a journey. Every loss is a lesson learnt, coming away with more experience. I can't say about your scene, but my local guys are all really sound and friendly. You can have a laugh and it's a great atmosphere. My advice, keep at it sir! Bring home glory for the Black Templars! Oh, and I play Guard. Steel legion 😊

[@henrycordes7148]

Jay, This was an excellent video, as always, you do a great job of breaking down your thought process. I’m 100% on board, competitive 40K is its own monster/beast other than playing casual pickup games with competitive elements which is usually how i like to roll. I avoided competitive play for a LONG LONG time, but started getting back into it with my FLGSs in the PHNX metro do seasonal leagues, that are semi competitive through out your required games, you can adjust your list, make changes as long you’re playing the army you signed up with, once it gets into the championship rounds, I’ve always bowed out, i like to qualify and then step away lol. There’s an average point system in play so it’s not so much about winning or loosing its more about your average. I think you would be an excellent league player or even organizer! Good luck on your continued journey with 40K! Keep up the great work.

[@thanoschris821]

I mean many of your problems as ypu describe them can be solved by playing Aos

[@daaaah_whoosh]

I don't like this idea I've seen from a lot of youtubers that "casual" play is better than "competitive". Like I often see it as "I lost the game, my opponent shouldn't have tried so hard". There are aspects I'd agree with though, like yeah it's nice to be conversational and have fun with your opponent, and it's good to remind your opponent of the rules when they forget and fudge things a little to keep the game moving. And yeah listbuilding kinda sucks when minis are so expensive (but for that I just always try to push for 1k point games). But if you don't like what it takes to win the game, then maybe you just don't like the game.

[@mattrutkowski8120]

I started at the end of 8th edition, so I got to see the hard fall into strictly competitive-style play that was 9th. For all the complaints that 10th gets, its easier to approach for new players and its created a decently solid core game. I'm really hoping that the pendulum keeps swinging and we're evidently able to play a 40k that leans more narrative/RPG.

[@hobbybro3902]

I went 1-2 in m first RTT, ran out of time on both losses on turn 3. 83-82 loss vs Tau, 65-62 loss vs Voltan, won 91-28 vs Black Templars. Ran Necrons, Canoptek court.