Digital Rules Ruin LVO Event?

[@GlassHalfDead]

If you like what I do, check out my Patreon: www.patreon.com/GlassHalfDead Want the ACCOUTREMENTS I use when I play Kill Team? Find them here for 5% off using code GLASSHALFDEAD24: tinyurl.com/mry6uhyj My HOW TO PLAY KILL TEAM Video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z56zgKOudpumrqc&t

[@allengould3373]

As a brand new player, the digital rules are fine... Except there aren't digital core rules. There are the light rules, but why can't I have a digital copy of the rule book that gets updated. That is absolutely insane to me.

[@GlassHalfDead]

@@allengould3373 no core rules is MAD yes we all agree and GW's logic, although there, is poor

[@allengould3373]

@@GlassHalfDead I mean yeah, we have the update log, but if I want to look something up in the core book as a new player, to be accurate I ALSO need to go to the app and check the update log just to make sure that rule is actually the rule. I don't see any logic that makes that make sense.

[@winternitz_]

@@GlassHalfDead Anything gw related for rules feels outdated. It's worse in 40k, like watching a giant corporation deliver a AAA game incomplete and patch it up along its lifespan. Only for it to be truly finished not that long before its new edition , literally, comes out and its life cycle repeats once again.

[@hickorybane9323]

Even the rulebook I bought with my starter set is the light* rules *sometimes wrong

[@adrianthom2073]

@@winternitz_most accurate analogy.

[@Panta8472]

tbh whatever the reason im glad the window for changes is being left open as long as possible, idk if i can bring myself to tune into chaos space marines killin' each other for another whole tournament

[@martylund8411]

I have it on good authority that Squad Games has this in the front of their minds when selecting stream games. Coverage won't be 10 rounds of "table 1: chaos marines vs. chaos marines." Even if the final Championship match is Warpcoven-on-Warpcoven, you'll have a very good variety for the rest of Sunday, and moreso Friday and Saturday.

[@SmallStorms]

I really hope in a balance dataslate, anything for a more diverse teams representation.

[@avp2214]

Great job as always... completely agree... I am playing at LVO as a casually competitive player... the idea of possibly taking something other than "chaos flavored space marines" for a possible chance at .500 makes me feel better about going.. Thanks Glass!

[@diaconus1423]

Am I the only one that immediately downloaded every teams pdf on release and put them in a google drive so I would have the original versions for comparison?

[@Cobalt-60]

And I save them as dated PDFs in the cloud. I started doing this in KT21 because I did not trust GW to show what the changes were based on 30 years experience with the company and their history of ret-conning rules.

[@majortom7186]

GW need to stop messing around and get a real OP department.

[@punk6119]

Kill Team needs major changes. LVO must know that.

[@GlassHalfDead]

I think they have a slight inkling!

[@punk6119]

@GlassHalfDead hopefully elite armies get nerfed. There are about 5 teams I know I'll have zero chance against when I sit down.

[@0AbsolutZero0]

​@punk6119 Hopefully not. Elite teams were bad almost all last edition. They need some time in the sun

[@martylund8411]

@@punk6119 Specific teams need a Nerf, not elite teams in general. Angels of Death and Nemesis Claw don't need much fixing. It's the teams with Psykers (Warpcoven, Plague Marines) spamming spells on Counteract, and the teams that can reduce P1 to P0 (Warpcoven, Legionary) that are the primary offenders. Inquisition has some pain-points too. Novitiates, Necrons, Clowns, and Corsairs to a lesser extent.

[@robertchmielecki2580]

Community has been doing grassroot balancing of GW games for decades now, to make competitive events make sense. Both WFB and WH40K in earlier editions had balance patches or comp systems created by the community. I don't see how just banning a couple of teams until they are fixed is a problem - the only people opposing such moves are normally just WAACers who cry they don't get to win effortlessly with broken stuff anymore, but why should anyone care about them?

[@KarhsXII]

its not a problem with digital rules, its a problem with the way gw handles them-- it would be trivial to continue providing access to older info, but gw doesn't want anyone to use anything but the newest rules, ever. also, if they were fully transparent about update schedules, tournaments wouldn't need to set cutoffs like this in the first place. gw poking new holes in bad systems that they invented in the first place, as usual

[@TacticalTortoise]

this is the only youtube channel I've ever watched in my life so I'm pretty confident it's the best Kill Team one

[@hugheja89]

6:41 there is still the dossiers that come in the box and the data cards. Not everyone will have them but physical rules do exist in a way

[@martylund8411]

Problem is the old method was for GW to just release 1 file with all the DIFF records between the books and the new adjustments. Now GW just overwrites 36 separate source documents like they were that way all along. If you're lucky, at the end of the document they'll some notes about the revisions version-to-version.

[@tiberiumnp8030]

I’m so casual that I don’t even want to know which teams are broken and why 😂 And I only play custom killzones so no issues there.

[@willsmith1906]

Loving the Classic Onyxia tee :D

[@Kasandra_]

It's not a downside of digital rules. It's a downside of doing digital rules in the stupidest possible way. They could just have an archive downloads section on the site. (And on a side note, LVO could just pre-download the pdfs if they're worried about GW replacing them.)

[@soverain]

Yeah, digital asset versioning is not a new thing.

[@sullivanquinn9891]

So I'm a little confused sorry. The digital rules are changing but the LITE rules aren't all the rules. So are you saying they're coming out with a new book or simply changing the faction rules alone on the app?

[@GlassHalfDead]

Faction rules will change, yes. Lite rules definitely won't change!

[@Lirretobb]

I was pretty nonplussed too... took me some thinking to twig that the nugget of this vid is contained between 06.42 and 06.45 ! That is: in theory, on Thurs your rule says "x" and gets locked in for play, but on Friday the app/pdf says "y". (I def had to watch twice to grok this.)

[@Lirretobb]

I'm not sure this is any different to previous edition. You had written rules _"abc"_ plus a dataslate _"...+d"_ but once the new dataslate drops (say, *_"...+e"_* ) and where can you find the version that says "+d" then!? For KT24, this will be the first balance. And the second set of changes. Perhaps the faction rule update log will be very thorough and will have the deletions as well as additions in a chronological order...? (Edit to fix 'thorough')

[@martylund8411]

Worse, you used to have "abc" and then a Single Doc would have notes for changing ALL the originals. So you'd see "abc" "-b" "+d" and work out "acd." Now you get 36 documents that only have "acd" and pretend like "abc" never existed.

[@Lirretobb]

@@martylund8411 yeah, we'll see. Maybe they won't pretend "ABC" never existed. Got my hopes up that it will be a real, complete "log"

[@martylund8411]

@@Lirretobb That'll be no "rollback" options, 99.9% sure of that. The originals simply won't exist, and the updates won't be available as a DIFF that says "take your original rules, add 'd', remove 'b'."

[@earnestwanderer2471]

Wow. Interesting points. I can’t remember which game it is, but some relatively popular game has announced that the rules will be both “living” and online only... including edition updates. Someone pointed out that this precludes ever playing an earlier version of the game, in the event that someone preferred that edition. I mean, people still play 6th edition Warhammer Fantasy, for example, which would be impossible if the rule books and army books never existed in print (or I suppose in a digital archive somewhere).

[@WozWozEre]

I'm gonna start a Whale based Wargame just so I can call it Krill Team.

[@andrewmarshall2075]

I can't even get a single person to sit down and consistently play kill team with me at either of my LGS's, so it's been really a hard time here

[@joekws]

Really interesting, especially when they talked about it on their podcast. Even joked about how they could change the rules between the 1st and 2nd days of the tournament how they'd be stuff when all the rules were gone.

[@nopenope5598]

Interesting video. Not a 40k player but I like your videos and takes.

[@stevefromdesmoines]

@glasshalfdead What's stuck to the back of your left arm?

[@GiraffeCrab]

Probably a diabetic implant thing for helping to regulate blood sugar.

[@GlassHalfDead]

Glucose monitor sensor, yeah. I got the beetus

[@chrishoj5277]

Data cards are a lie 6:42

[@GlassHalfDead]

Too expensive to be real!

[@BB-pn2qv]

You’re getting to much better at presenting and speaking in these videos. Super impressive videos the last few months

[@slackeratlarge575]

Let me redeem a code from my core rule book to get digital core rules. just like 40K and AOS. It’s not that hard GW.

[@Verhaengnis]

What? They just could go for a set date, like two weeks before the tournament and say, print out all the rules or safe the pdf, that is currently official and the tournament will be played with all the rules that were official two weeks ago and players were able to practice with them, without being afraid of last second rule changes. And if you can't either print the rules or safe the pdf... The promoters of the tournament could do that as well and say: that are the rules, we're playing with. Don't really get the point why that's a problem.

[@coreytaggart128]

Wouldn't really be hard for them to keep the different versions available on the website, or even having an archive section in the app.

[@fransaacs]

Is Dakotah hanging on for that 3+ for Striking Scorpions? Khaine bless that dude.

[@Squad-Games-Entertainment]

You know I am

[@fransaacs]

@@Squad-Games-Entertainment Indeed!

[@Blitz-0012]

Can you make a video on how best to counter the different types of Kill Teams?

[@GlassHalfDead]

Mmmmmmmmm kind of. I'm not the guy to go to for GOOD tactical advice. However, my "hot to play X" series will not be me reading numbers off a page. It will be more "how to beat"

[@Blitz-0012]

@@GlassHalfDead Yeah exactly that! I'm not looking for an algorithmic pattern and equation to defeat every team. I just want a quick heads up of what to look our for and what's good to use on 'em.

[@malcire]

What mini is in the thumbnail?

[@GlassHalfDead]

@@malcire that's an old forgeworld possessed model I painted to be my anointed

[@willsham45]

in the case of updated rules we will update this policy but until then we have implemented these rules. X faction is banned or X unit is banned. Or We feel this rule is broken we are house ruling it to this. and here is why

[@1uke69er]

I thought the digital rule where only a lite version and the only way to get the full rules was to get the physical core book I'm also pretty sure there was a while where the only way to get the aquilon or vespid rules was to buy hivestorm with the dorrsier

[@Hardcover_Pilot]

It's definitely a two-edged sword. If you don't lock-in lists for a tournament until the last second, yeah, you're gonna have people turn up and having to completely rework their lists and being at a severe disadvantage... but then if you don't, you close the door on having an utterly broken rule fixed and making the tournament un-fun for the folks playing into those broken rules.

[@OfficialMa1201]

The digital rules arent the problem GWs execution is it wouldnt be hard to just have a rule version select so you could view previous rule verisons but i guess that would be too much of an effort for GW

[@F0RS00TH]

I guess what I don't understand is why the community/TOs don't fix it themselves. I am much more involved in the Blood Bowl community, and tournaments there make their own tournament balancing packets with skill packets and Star Player restrictions. Letting the producer of the miniatures make the final rulings seems a bit foolish, since they are motivated to sell minis, not provide a perfectly balanced experience.

[@HappyDuude]

Oh man, this hurts. Great shout out. Its also a mess when they start paywalling free rules, when the battletomb/codex/etc cimes out

[@LK959]

Love the deep in the weeds content like this brother! I say we go back to the old ways and Tournaments go back to making their own mission packs and with kill team there can easily be a "ban/limited" list to temper the powerful teams a bit. Never trust GW ever to care about the game aspect in an honest way. It was a huge mistake to let them into the FLG tournament system...

[@Squad-Games-Entertainment]

Neither Games Workshop nor Front Line Gaming has any say in how the Kill Team event at LVO is run. Front Line Gaming has 3rd party organizer's that run all of the events outside of big hammer. They trust those organizers to make the right decisions about their game.

[@jameszeropr]

Better to wait for the fix. Play with new rules.

[@blooddragon6999]

How to fix this is once a fations codex/rule book comes out it is not able to be updated or changed till the next edition no balances dataslates

[@jacawandersmok9043]

6:30 but you have cards? I have cards

[@GlassHalfDead]

I haven't bought any cards!

[@jacawandersmok9043]

@GlassHalfDead see cards are bettter ;]

[@lamMeTV]

I love broken stuff I wanna watch the matches

[@demacherius1]

I have my cards printed out. GW can try to get them from my dead cold hands. 😂

[@Winstonatoor]

Ugh! If you're able to understand killteam you should be able to print / download your rules.

[@GundamReviver]

GHD.. You do realise people can just DOWNLAOD their teams pdf right? Since the app is just a pdf reader 😂?

[@martylund8411]

Yeah, day-of-tournament how do I download my OPPONENT'S ruleset? I've got to take his word for it that his copy is valid? The digital reset take away my ability to fact-check my opponents' team on the fly unless I archived all 36 PDFs myself ahead of time.

[@GundamReviver]

@martylund8411 ah yeah I hadn't concidered that, I basically was going off the honesty principle 😅

[@jacawandersmok9043]

Intresting staiment

[@Brofisticus]

Try Battletech. The rulebooks aren't out of date before their preview, there aren't any yugioh gotcha mechanics, the prices haven't gone up in price in the last four years (not even with inflation), and nobody yells "heresy" when you blow up a fascist.

[@bob12884]

Can't be real on that last sentence. Battletech has a massive far-right fascist problem.

[@Brofisticus]

@@bob12884 I was referring to in-universe, as blowing up fascists on Earth is illegal in most places. Battletech doesn't glorify the ideology like 40k does and most real life communities don't tolerate their bigotry. You would need to go to a deep red state like North Mexico to find many. At that point, it isn't a Battletech problem.

[@peterclarke7006]

GW is basically an abusive parent at this point. I've switched to stargave and OPR. I just can't be bothered with GW anymore.

[@majortom7186]

7:35 There is the issue of all the hours of practice still.

[@martylund8411]

You'd hate a MtG Release Event.

[@majortom7186]

@ MTG was never my jam. Legend of the Five Rings was my go to game. Besides, when you go to a release event you know what you are getting into. LVO is supposed to be a real tournament.

[@martylund8411]

@@majortom7186 Man, Legend of the Five CCG ... rulings dropped on the daily on the ListServer. Kotei Season could be wild back in the day. Still, limited format events are the ultimate skill-tester because they (over time) test a player's true mastery of the game, including adaptability and core learning instead of rote drilling. If GW can just keep their Data Slate in their pants for another week, it'll be interesting to see how people perform. I have my theories that the better players would still over-perform even if the slate dropped 2 days in advance, and the not-so-great players would still under-perform no matter how many weeks of practice they got in a static format.

[@GlassHalfDead]

Practice? Never tried it!

[@Abcshawn01]

I guess a farmer has to eat too.

[@GlassHalfDead]

Am I not entitled to the sweat from my own brow?

[@Abcshawn01]

@@GlassHalfDead Just feels like you could have asked anyone involved instead of random speculation and furthering potential drama. Especially if you play casually and not even invested in the competitive community.

[@GlassHalfDead]

@@Abcshawn01 I don't even know what you're talking about here dude. This is not a drama video at all. I literally give the actual reason the decision was made and say it makes a lot of sense.

[@ClockworkEngineer]

Anything that hurts FLG is positive in my book.

[@natty4316]

What’s flg?

[@GlassHalfDead]

@@natty4316 Front Line Gaming

[@ClockworkEngineer]

@@natty4316 Frontline Gaming. They're real bastards.

[@PucknellProductions]

First!!!!!

[@Tulkash01]

I'll put this here: GW has a say in the way LVO gets organized now... Edit: oooopss... Glass mentions this as well!

[@Squad-Games-Entertainment]

This is blatantly NOT true. I'm the organizer for the event. Games Workshop has ZERO say over my event.

[@Tulkash01]

@ so you are saying GW bought into the LVO but it’s not influencing how it’s run?

[@Squad-Games-Entertainment]

@@Tulkash01 I am the Event organizer for Kill Team At LVO. GW nor FLG has had any say nor have they asked to have any meetings over LVO. This event is purely run by 3rd party organizers. The Kill Team event has not been influenced by Games Workshop or by Frontline.