Spinning Vs Grinding | What Is The Best Cadence For Climbing On A Road Bike?

[@gcn]

What's your preferred cycling style? 🧐

[@mihpop9733]

Fun fact: the Lance Armstrong high cadence technique was developed by Michele Ferrari specifically in conjunction with the use op EPO. Because EPO allowed the rider to absorb more oxygen than otherwise, grinding gears stressing your muscles did not fully utilise the effects of the drug. By increasing the workload of the respiratory system at high cadence the muscles would get more oxygen thus have a higher sustained power threshold. Note: i am not accusing Froome of taking drugs, it probably means that his body has a higher VO2 Max and lung capacity compared to most others and it's using it as his main weapon.

[@carlomiguelgualberto1384]

Spin to winnn

[@carlomiguelgualberto1384]

Global Cycling Network spinnnnn to winnnnnnnnnnn

[@xGshikamaru]

Global Cycling Network high cadence definitely. Last week I wish I had a smaller gear than 30-27 on a 14%max gradient. All of my friends had a bigger gear, though that didn't mean they climbed faster (some did, some didn't it all comes down to fitness level). However I'd say 80rpm is not grinding territory, you should have done it at 60rpm. My preferred cadence is 90rpm, if you multiply this by 34-32, which is often the smallest gear you find on a compact chainset and with a 700C wheel it gives you more than 12km/h. I'd argue that it's already a great speed to climb such a grueling climb as Monte Zoncolan, you'd have to output a good amount of watts to maintain that speed/cadence. My conclusion to this is that on climbs a lot of riders don't choose their cadence simply because they run out of gears.

[@palicar]

I find higher cadence is harder to keep steady when climbing, but it feels easier. I can grind with seemingly constant even pressure on the pedals so I prefer the harder gear. Also, the harder gear requires fewer pedal strokes to summit.

[@samtravis4822]

My fav bit of this vid is Simon referring to himself as a “normal” rider after just demonstrating putting out over 550watts on a climb

[@kuro_kei]

I climb at about 70 rpm, but I also get passed by energetic walkers.

[@_6079SMITH]

🤣🤣🤣that's honesty for you👍👍

[@mangckyatmamon]

oh man. I know that feeling bruh

[@okambambo]

Worst feeling ever

[@ellenorbjornsdottir1166]

In one-first

[@unoyoudidnt]

The worse is coming up behind them and they constantly look back at you because your never catch up.

[@hidalgokaballiero]

For those who don't have time: "- What is the best cadence? - It's individual." the end

[@paulkoller8104]

Reporter: What's your secret? Merckx: Ride a lot.

[@pparker768]

Yes. We'll meaning but totally useless. Prof was a waste of space.

[@thesoultwins72]

@@pparker768 ……..APE = Absolutely Pointless Exercise!

[@inap1877]

This was all wrong!

[@TeKeyaKrystal]

lol , thanks . I watched it twice & still didn't really know the answer

[@ClemensAlive]

Si: *names himself an average rider* Also Si: *590 watts*

[@luis-gk9ri]

Seid wann interessierst du dich denn für rennräder? 😂Krass dich hier zu sehen

[@MicroageHD]

@@luis-gk9ri Ja, war schöner ohne ihn.

[@mrtonod]

lol

[@emilchandran546]

@Sébastien Fournier serious cyclist =/= average cyclist.

[@danielsepulveda912]

Im Average and my output is 150W for about 4 hours, thats is average

[@ronbell7920]

Sheezam! 550 watts average power for the climb. Si is no slouch! This was a good tutorial for us "regular" cyclist. Thanks Si!

[@gcn]

💪

[@daniilr.chaniotis8505]

I am a messenger in paris. One of our standard runs is a climb of 1.4 km with a 6.6% average gradient. At places it looks pretty vertical. Spinning with a gear ratio 34/32 on a 32kg(when empty) cargo bike is my best friend. If you visit the Sacre Coeur in Paris think of me.

[@paulfaulkner6299]

J'aime l'eglise de Sacre Coeur

[@ellenorbjornsdottir1166]

Greetings from Canada

[@marcusmartin5758]

Just use motorcycle, problem solve.

[@superluvver3]

Your a real cyclist! The more weight makes it exponentially harder and coming down frightning. I found coming down zoncolan frightning as im over 110kg.

[@patmoore2782]

I've found that grinding gets me up hills a lot faster but my legs run out of energy before the end of a century. If I've climbed with a higher cadence, I still have legs at the end.

[@sepg5084]

I guess that would depend on the steepness and length of the climb. I cannot grind for 20 minutes out of the saddle on a steep hill as i get tired earlier. I can do it sitting down on a spinner cadence. For short hillclimbs, standing up is quicker. For longer hillclimbs, i need to pace myself and spin to win.

[@ianpovey6331]

at 95kg there is only grind no matter what gears I have every hill is hard work

[@danfuerthgillis4483]

ian povey lmfao now add in my 14kg road bike and you might as well walk the bike uphill. Right now on my 7 cogs x 3 rings training bike I have settled on the second ring and 5 cog for overall flats and climbing small 2 km hills. On my Sava Carbon I spend 40% less energy doing the same work so that tells you weight of the bike and a bigger cassette does help.

[@SimonDeiner]

haha, same here... on our big hills I struggle to maintain 65

[@Evora161]

+1 #DownHillSpecialists

[@martinbird6456]

I'm another downhill superstar and uphill tailender. Much as I enjoy the adrenaline rush of stomping the same gear from flat to up a short hill, I've found I can get through longer rides with less aches and fatigue next day by staying in the saddle and spinning. When it comes to gears, granny knows best.

[@reddaB]

martin bird I love gears. I dunno why fixie riders do it to themselves.

[@TheWaxChainFanClub]

As adorably modest Si is, he is NOT a "normal" cyclist!

[@treyquattro]

British understatment is understated...

[@johntechwriter]

It comes down to lungs vs. legs. Ultimately the legs are the limiting factor. But in the real world your lungs will be screaming at you sooner. Discipline will teach you not to go as hard early in a long climb as you want to. Once you’re warmed up and in the groove, trust your body to tell you the optimal gear/cadence to use. Not only will you eventually catch and pass the jackrabbits who thought they’d dropped you, you’ll enjoy the ride more.

[@JohnBrown-qk8yz]

Well said 👍

[@jamesmay1900]

When I switched to high cadence style, it felt easier but I burned out quicker. I also stopped enjoying cycling, constantly focusing on my cadence, rather than the ride, the scenery and the feeling. It almost made cycling too technical. I'm back to "mashing" and enjoy the ride much more and last longer.

[@tsukubaf1512]

I just love spinning, and because of an old knee injury, i have the perfect excuse to stay seated and do the Froomey xD

[@CuddlyStingray0731]

TsukubaF1 配信チャンネル right there with ya! After suffering a training accident my knees are messed up. Best excuse to spin ever!

[@martinbird6456]

Yeap, very suprised they didn't mention the injury prevention benefits of seated faster cadence up hill. Certainly helps me finish a harder day without back and knee pain.

[@razorsharp5216]

TsukubaF1 配信チャンネル I

[@aitorbleda8267]

Same here. I used to grind, now I cant.. isquiotibial pain!

[@ShermanSitter]

Yes, knees. The best excuse for a cadence magnet. :)

[@andiwyer]

Simon (talking with Louis): Okay Simon (talking with Louis): Okay Simon (talking with Louis): Okay Simon (talking with Louis): Okay Simon (talking with Louis): Okay :-) Great video though.

[@poly_hexamethyl]

Optimal cadance is actually quite an interesting question. I can imagine there are several conflicting factors involved. Here are a few: 1) Energy wasted moving the legs. Imagine pedalling a stationary bike with zero load. The faster you pedal, the more energy you're using just accelerating and decelerating the mass of your legs up and down. Since there is no load, this work isn't actually doing anything, and it's completely wasted. So when you pedal a real bike against a load, the faster your cadence, the more of your power is wasted just moving your legs, and this wasted power is lost from moving the bike. From this aspect alone, lower cadence is more efficient. 2) Wear on the knees. The more force you pedal with, the more you grind out your knee joints. From this aspect, higher cadance is better, since you can produce the same power with less force, saving your knees. 3) Efficiency of the muscles. I would imagine the muscles are more efficient at a particular combination of force and speed. If muscles are at maximum contraction for too long, perhaps transport of fuel and waste products is less effective than if they contract more lightly but more often? Perhaps someone more knowledgable can comment on this? It would be interesting to know if sport scientists have quantified the contribution of these and other factors for various cadences, and found an optimal tradeoff point? Has anyone seen anything like this in the literature?

[@TimpBizkit]

I've found this phenomenon at this "electricity generating" thing with several lightbulbs on a bike, to see what you could do in a minute. I told the guy to wire up all the lights but the load only came to about 105 watts. Spinning the pedals made the load easier but it was impossible to put down more than 105 watts as the pedaling just became really easy at high speed (there was probably a voltage regulator to not blow the bulbs). Probably for a minute I'd need 400-500 watts worth of bulbs and 110 rpm for optimal loading. I'm not sure whether energy wasted moving legs is recovered at higher loads. Because the body doesn't have to control the legs, the power can be dissipated in the bike and not in the muscles. Pedal stroke timing could suffer though. Because muscles can be used as a brake, contracting opposite muscles at once - either on opposite pedals (independently ratcheting power cranks are to train this out), or in the same leg, wastes energy. I was trying lower cadences to really think about the firing order of different muscle groups. Was I contracting the quadriceps and hamstrings at once? I'm wondering whether with two joint muscles such as the hamstring, hip flexor and gastrocnemius, some energy wasted is inevitable. I mean the hamstring can also aid the gluteus maximus slightly, but yet it saps power from the quadriceps. At the bottom "scraping" of the pedal stroke, the gastrocnemius and hamstring work together to bend the leg and point the foot. It's almost like ignition and exhaust timing in an internal combustion engine. You don't want part of the explosion to be trying to push the piston backwards. Trying to minimise eccentric "contractions" in the pedal stroke is much the same. You want power to turn the wheels on the bike, not turn it into heat stretching muscles against their will. It would be like riding on a tandem with someone trying to pedal backwards. Eccentric contractions are the main energy wasted on a unicycle. At very high loads, I have anecdotal evidence that muscles do lose efficiency. I sweat more trying to pull 120 kg barbell off the ground than a 60 kg barbell twice - yet the latter is actually more work, as I dip my body twice. Not only that, but it also wastes the potential of fast twitch fibres. You're using up their capacity, but not making much power. They are just acting like an electric motor in too hard a gear ratio for it to function properly.

[@LifterNZ]

No doubt the most important point you've made is #3, and is what has already informed cadence in practice.

[@goldenking2046]

For #3 it's more about sustainability than efficiency. Faster cadence uses aerobic energy which puts the work on your heart and lungs. This can be sustained indefinitely if your heart and lungs are trained for this amount of load. Slower cadence starts to dip into anerobic reserves which always has a limit due to lactic acid buildup.

[@themidstream]

@@TimpBizkit Great reply, and good barbell example.

[@Keyboardbeatz]

0 cadence is the best. aka coasting down a hill

[@timeslowingdown]

You'd love riding a fixed gear :D

[@Keyboardbeatz]

Ha ha...fixed gear riders are very hardcore in my book

[@JH-fk8ow]

how about fixed gear rider trying to catch a pokemon while weaving thru the bike lanes.... one guy almost killed me like that, it was damn close i didnt showe that fixie handlebar up hes arse

[@hankroest6836]

I'm doing zero cadence RIGHT NOW! and loving it! ;-)

[@miroslavmilosevic1040]

when u get addicted to climbing the downhill part becomes boring as your muscle and bones are accustomed to constant pedaling. Pedaling itself is a hook and you no longer feel comfy sitting on a bike without working it out.

[@gmoar]

80rpm is "grinding"? LOL, watch me with 36/28 up a 20% slope at 45rpm, *that's* grinding.

[@indonesiaamerica7050]

Grinding is when you're forced to pull harder on the back and upstroke at a rate that can't be sustained if you experience any significant fatigue or dip in aerobic performance. It can happen at around 80 but that doesn't mean you can't drop even lower. If you have a power meter with torque analysis you can see where this starts to occur. And you can also train to improve efficiency at both ends of your effective cadence window.

[@MicroageHD]

36 is a noob gear. Try 39 or 42....

[@ryoukurosaki1762]

@@MicroageHD I ride a 48/36

[@hanspeter9391]

Try fixie with 48/15 and you'll learn about grinding, lol

[@ministryoftruth8588]

@steveo314 EXACTLY Stevo! If you watch old TDF footage, like the '86 TDF where Lemond is wheelsucking Zimmerman on long mountain climbs, Lemond's cadence is EXACTLY 60 rpms the ENTIRE climb, and those Climbs were LONG, day in day out. Notice how much MORE MUSCULAR Pro Cyclist were back then. I say climb btw. 55-75 rpms as long as your knees can handle it. Spin while climbing over 80 rpms for 'recovery' or if you have knee pain. Just subtract 15-20 rpms from your ideal flatland cadence for ideal climbing cadence. The whole 'Spin to Win' philosophy works mostly for Pros doped up on EPO, since their Red Blood Cell Count is artificially jacked up. Makes sense to emphasize Cardio over Strength if your Cardio System is 'Supercharged'. Recreation Cyclist who 'spin' climbs at over 90 rpms look like SERIOUS DORKS and they usually have NO Muscle Mass. The Babes really dig the 'Grinders' legs/ass. I Cycle to multitask: Fitness, Escape, explore nature, transportation, the 'Thrill Ride', mechanical tinkering and Scoring Tail!

[@masondanner6481]

I think GCN answered it at 4:30 - you pedal fast to go fast. Also - for me, the length of the climb matters a lot. If it is a climb that can be covered in less then 15 minutes, I can get out of the saddle and push hard at a lower cadence and actually put out more power to get over it quicker, but these efforts are not sustainable over and over again throughout a long day. If it is going to last more then 15 minutes, I really want to keep it above 90 rpm and mostly stay in the saddle to keep my heart rate down. Also, I train at those high cadences and have always been a high cadence rider and usually have stronger performances in longer, harder, rides/races.

[@guymorris6420]

The only hills near me here in Texas are bridges over a local river, Brazos River, so I use them for climb workouts. I try to include them on as many of my rides as I can. I work at a state prison and I'm off three consecutive days so those days, outside of vacation days, are the only days I get to ride. I've set a goal for myself of riding at least 100 miles a week. Today, July 20 2019, I rode 32.5 miles and that gives me 101.3 miles in these three days but rode 122.4 miles last week. I'm at 292 for this month so far, including July 1 and 2. I try to be in a good gear for me before I reach the foot of the bridge and have a nice pace so I can be spinning as I climb to the bridge high point and safely descend as I watch for debris on the bridge road shoulders. Before I moved back to Texas I had lived in Colorado from 1984 to 2012 so I was super spoiled with world class cycling terrain, especially for climbing segments on rides. I always tried to be able to spin at a higher cadence though I was faced with areas where I had to use the grinding approach. I do what works for me because I don't race but I'm a very serious rider. I try to do my rides each week and maybe do intervals one day, longer slow distance another and a faster pace on another. My minimum total mileage goal for each week is 100 miles.

[@twosencefromcleveland6084]

Great video! As a senior, And back to my mid 30s, I found that a slower cadence gave a little time for the other leg to recover; even when lifting. Of course, I've never been an elite rider, every time I spin, I get horrible lactic buildup. I love everything about cycling, though, no matter the technique. Thanks for sharing.

[@ItsTristan1st]

This topic has been very well explained previously without the dodgy "experiment". As any serious cyclist knows, lower cadence increases the long term fatigue in the legs but keeps the heart rate relatively low. The opposite is true for higher cadence which is easier on the legs but pushes the heart rate higher. The heart rate will come down leaving very little fatigue but the same cannot be said for tired legs. A good cyclist knows this and adjusts cadence depending on how they are feeling. Dr Michele Ferrari, Lances Armstrong's famous doping doctor was the one who told him to increase his cadence significantly. The key is that the ability to dope the cardiovascular system (using EPO, etc) is far greater than the muscles themselves.

[@alanwhitefield250]

Everything is relative. At 64 yrs my spinning may be your grinding! Anyway my technique is simple. Spin till you can't then grind the rest, then stand and grind......... Then ( rarely) push !

[@RealLordkiffington]

That's me and I'm 30

[@jaynewman848]

Exactly! The key is to unclip before going so slow that you topple over

[@anyoldironhammer8723]

True. Never be ashamed to unclip (particularly as you get older). Ultimately you're doing your body a lot more good getting on the bike in the first place.

[@douglasengle2704]

In 1984 I research bicycle riding technics as part of buying my first high quality bicycle a Trek 620 sport touring bicycle intended for long many day rides. At that time protecting your knees from long term damage and inflammation were huge issues. The recommended technic was to keep your cadence above 80 and pull up in addition to pushing down during a power pedal stroke. Keeping your cadence above 80 assures that the knee impact fluid cushion between sliding cartilages does not empty before the end of a power pedal stroke. Pulling up on the pedals as well pushing down causes a forced back-and-forth knee fluid pumping action suppling fresh oxygen and nutrients to the knee's cartilages. This allows the cartilages to remain flexible making them less subject to damage.

[@richardserpell1943]

Would love to hear discussion on the energy expenditure through the arms when out of the saddle. I imagine pros sit in the saddle to save energy loss through the arms. Would be great also to see Simon do a 200m sprint after each trial to test the impact on the body.

[@600mph_cheap_suicide_drones]

I read VO2max studies concerning out of the saddle and past a certain power output, it is nearly as efficient as sat down. With the optimal technique, bike fit, and body position, any effort you spend on on your arms should carry over to your power output or sustain pedaling torque. You can even offset some of the load from the legs to the arms. It's a relatively complex subject to discuss on short reply as it involves muscular dynamics like how muscular power involves not just force but also speed and and length of contraction. If you can reduce contraction on one muscle and increase it on another is how you can offset the load. Pros would definitely know about this stuff with analysis upon analysis, especially Alberto Contador!

[@rieckstudio]

Simon, i think i've figured this dilemma out. High cadence is dominating the peloton presently but what most cyclist don't understand is that the Vo2 capability required to spin high with power is trained for and to a lesser extent, inherited. Chris Froome, and the top GC riders have high Vo2 levels and can support this rapid cadence with superior aerobic delivery systems. What we witnessed on Stage 19 was a finely tuned Ferrari. Now most cyclist wont feel comfortable with high cadences because it draws too much resources from their vo2 systems, which may not be up to the task. For a grand tour, energy conservation is critical and by working within the vo2 system, fatigue is minimized. Go into the red and into the anaerobic, its only a matter of time. Simon yates, Chaves and then Thibot are examples. Thanks for the video and discussion

[@joshuamcdonnell8401]

It’s not about what is faster on one climb, but over a three week grand tour you will be much more efficient with a higher cadence because your shifting the load from the legs to the lungs. Your legs will be fresher over the course of a race.

[@EK1H]

Joshua McDonnell yes absolutely. Any quick test is pointless. Do 200km race pace then do the test.

[@rieckstudio]

Joshua McDonnell exactly

[@MrRapidement]

Sure, but the strain on the heart is higher with high cadence. Which also adds up over the course of a race. It's probably best to stick to your natural cadence.

[@mishalbd]

@Joshua, here's a thought though. Some people have low hemoglobin levels (it's a blood disorder called thalassemia) and they are trying to do the opposite -- shifting the load from the lungs to the legs. Their lungs don't get the oxygen that normal people do. So they have to rely on their muscles and hence they end up grinding. Even if I try hard, I can't get my cadence up to 70 or 80, let alone 100.

[@joshuamcdonnell8401]

Mishal Ahmed I agree With you in that scenario but 99% of people don’t have that blood disorder and highly doubt you could become a pro rider with such a disorder.

[@Zumaray]

I think one of the main points here that has been overlooked is the use of the arms when climbing. There is a lot of counter action movement relayed from arms to legs when standing in the saddle. You can’t do this at a high rpm for very long.

[@jlowhighlow]

I have a 26-40 smallest gear on my adventure bike. Very extreme gearing, but it lets me keep going at the end of a long day, or after multiple big days when I've got nothing left in the legs. I was in the lake district last year and had done a couple massive (for me) days and was more fatigued than I'd ever been before, and managed to do Hardknott and Wrynose pass from both sides each (total about 20km with 1k climbing and frequently above 25%), which I 100% would not have been able to do with even a 34-32 I was that fatigued. I love granny gears man, they get you places.

[@rieckstudio]

jlowhighlow indeed they 'get you places' AND keep you in the race while others are pouring themselves out. I hope people keep grinding i can keep winning races

[@rand3mhero]

With running there's a crossover point where the speed determines which cadence is more efficient. The grade typically dictates your speed so I imagine either style has its optimal time to shine.

[@rsmenton]

Excellent segment and impressive power numbers, Si.

[@gcn]

Thanks Randy!

[@briandarnell1809]

I was hoping for a discussion of torque and cadence. If your torque is not up there, then your cadence has to increase to create power. Just like horsepower which is calculated as (torque * RPM)/5252. Little engines better rev fast.

[@quentinbennett151]

Favourite cadence? - anything that keeps me moving forwards! Seriously, there is an assumption throughout this that you have enough power to keep pedaling at chosen rate, rather than just whatever the hill will allow you to do!

[@richardmiddleton7770]

You have to factor in the length and gradient of the climb aswell. Short steep climbs under 1 minute you can muscle up them out of the saddle, longer climbs you can stay seated providing your gearing allows you to stay above 70 rpm. Then there are times when you need to give your legs or your CV system more recovery, higher cadence to let the leg muscles recover and lower cadence to let the CV system recover. You should also train both high and low cadence but keep between 70 and 110 although going outside of this range is fine for brief periods.

[@D.Eldon_]

We have very different ideas about "grinding". To me, grinding is pedaling less than 60 rpm at high power. And most of the videos I've seen of professional cyclists who are said to be "grinding up a hill," it looks like they are pedaling less than 60 rpm, too. As for the different power during the tests, it probably undermines any conclusions and the fault appears to be incorrect gear ratios for the cadence used. For example, if we use your 95 rpm at 34 x 28t as the reference (a gear ratio of 1.214), you'd need a 39 x 27t (a gear ratio of 1.444) for equal power at 80 rpm. To use your 39 x 23t with a gear ratio of 1.696 you'd need to use a slower cadence of 68 rpm!!! That's why your power was so much higher on the 80 rpm run -- your gear ratio was too high for the selected cadence, forcing you to exert more power to hold the 80 rpm cadence. This was an interesting test and would be worth repeating -- but you need to match the gear ratio to the cadence you plan to use so the power is consistent.

[@simonrichardson5259]

D.Eldon Thanks for the great response as always. In this case it feels like actually having a gear that forces you to put out more power could be an important point. Would hear twiddlers go faster if they had to try a bit harder?

[@D.Eldon_]

_@Simon Richardson_ - Thanks for taking the time to reply. Much appreciated. Perhaps I'm missing something because I don't understand the explanation. Maybe the muddle is occurring when we talk about power. In my original response above, I was taking about power to the rear wheel -- the same power you'd read on your cycling computer. In your reply, are you talking about power at the pedals? If so, we're talking about two different things. If you select a gear ratio for each cadence you test such that the power to the wheels is the same, you will exert _more power_ at the pedals *per revolution of the crank* _at the lower cadence._ This will be true even if your power meter indicates the same watts as I'm advocating. For example, at 500 watts, you'll have to exert more force per revolution at 80 rpm as you would at 95 rpm. So the cyclist will perceive a harder effort even though the power to the wheels is the same (500 watts). The way the test was conducted for the video (with gear ratios that were not chosen to equalize the power to the wheels), you were forced to also drive more force to the wheels at the lower cadence which introduced a second variable. In other words, you increased the power to the pedals twice -- once because of the lower cadence, again because of the too-high gear ratio.

[@charlesphi1795]

D.Eldon Hi, The "power per crank revolution" is in fact an energy (that's when you count the power produced over time). In the video, Simon is producing energy at the same rate (that's the power read on the bike computer). Since at let's say 60rpm the time to make a crank revolution is longer than at 90rpm, there will be more energy produced per crank revolution at 60rpm: you count the power produced over the longer period. What you may be referring to is the torque produced to attain a certain power. As power is "torque times rpm", a lower rpm needs higher torque for the same required power. Which I agree can feel more exhausting. As for power at the wheel/at the pedals, it is perfectly equivalent. There will be a constant factor between them due to the drive train losses. Don't hesitate if something is unclear, or if you want more explanation! I'm happy to help :)

[@D.Eldon_]

_@Charles Phi_ - Let's please not over-complicate this subject. Of course there is power at the pedal -- the energy to move the pedal a specific number of revolutions per minute is energy transferred over time (power). I'd like to keep this discussion as simple as possible so as many readers can easily follow. So let's assume that Si exerts the exact same force at each point along the 360-degree circle of the pedal around the crank spindle. And let's assume that Si maintains a perfect 500 watts/minute power output to the rear wheel during both ascents. And let's assume there are no losses between the pedals and rear wheel. During the first ascent, Si climbed with a cadence of 95 rpm. Dividing his 500 watts by 95 revolutions, each revolution required 5.26 watts. During the second ascent, he climbed with a cadence of 80 rpm. Dividing his 500 watts by 80 revolutions, each revolution required 6.25 watts. This simple method of comparing the difference in power required for each crank revolution at these two cadences helps folks understand why the 80 rpm cadence appears to require more effort at the pedals. It truly does as you've acknowledged. And this is why I believe Si's suggestion that being "forced to put out more power could be an important point" would still be satisfied if the power at the wheel is held constant.

[@charlesphi1795]

Thanks for your polite answer :) I think you have the correct instinct, I just want to clear a couple technical details for interested readers. Power cannot be divided by a number of rotations in the physical sense, because it is an "instantaneous" value. You can divide energy though (more on that later). I'll try to express your reasoning either in terms of torque or energy. I'll go with torque first, which is what I talked about in my first message. Torque is Power/RPM (fellow physicians, sorry about the units). For 500W, the torque produced at 60rpm is 500Nm (Newton meters, the unit for torque) and at 90rpm it is 333Nm. So indeed the legs hurt more at 60rpm because more torque=more force. Notice I did a division just like you but with correct units in the physical sense. The conclusion is the same indeed. As for reasoning with energy, we can this time divide by a number of revolutions as you did and it is correct in the physical sense. Over 1 minute, Simon produced 30kJ (kilojoules) of energy (that's power multiplied by the number of seconds). These 30kJ of energy are spread over either 60 rotations or 90 rotations. Which means he produced for each pedal rotation either 0.5kJ (60rpm) or 0.33kJ (90rpm). Again, same conclusion: more energy put per pedal rotation means you push "harder" on the pedals. For readers interested in those power/torque/energy disgressions, have a look at the wikipedia pages, I hope it's clear enough! As for the power at the wheel, what makes you think it is fundamentally different from the power at the pedals?

[@martinreichel6850]

What i always asked myself and i didn't find any research about is if a higher cadence leads to a higher backflow to the right heart. Veins don't have muscular tissue they are compressed by the surounding muscles. With an higher cadence this happens more often leading perhaps to an higher backflow. This could perhaps help the heart to be more efficient or lead to an better supply of oxigen to the muscles. Another reason for the normal person to use a higher cadence can be the reduced torq on the joints. If have read a study about this but don't find it at the moment. I personaly try to keep my cadence a little bit up when ever i can.

[@ChrisCapoccia]

just seems like 80 rpm is not low enough to show a problem… if you got stuck on a steep climb in a bad gear and had to pedal around 60, then we might see something interesting

[@misterlarryb]

LOL- The only thing spinning is my brain trying to visualize all the words flying out of this video! SO glad to hear the conclusion that there are so many unique factors that (for the common rider) it's up to personal preference and comfort. Great vid as always, GCN!

[@UnliAhon]

80rpm is grinding already? 😂 Im not a strong rider and if I am able to hit 80-90 thats when I thought I am spinning and the grinding happens only at 60 and below rpm in my case. 🤣😂 gotta have to train more. 😂

[@reddaB]

Unli Ahon haha sameeeee I consider grinding ..like 40 rpm ahah

[@oboe5522]

PAPSS!!!

[@phildurre9492]

the faster you get the faster you will spinn. that doesnt mean you should aim to apin faster nore that faster spinners ng people will bypass you

[@UnliAhon]

wat

[@briandarnell1809]

I'm 146 pounds and don't develop the torque of the bigger guys, so my power comes from my cadence. Less than 93 feels like I'm grinding, 95-103 is the sweet spot.

[@The_CrackedPot_Christian]

Sometimes the question is misrepresented as ' Is spinning faster than grinding?'. Like saying, is it faster in a car at 4000 or 6000rpm? Its the same, because you use gears. What is different is, among others, fuel/energy use, lactate levels (and hence fatigue), oxygenation, knee comfort, mechanical losses, muscle group use, stress on upper body etc etc. I have found from personal experimentation, spinning allows you to not feel as tired (pain), therefore you can go marginally faster and are willing to keep going due to lower pain levels. I get a slightly elevated heart rate at a higher rpm for same speed, indicating a higher body temp and/or fuel use but thats so much more sustainable than pain. Good interview, insightful. Training is key, fitness (and I take it weight too) is key. Train to stay in the saddle a higher rpm. Vroom like Froome.

[@piptazo1]

Awesome video! I always felt that high cadence pedaling at low powers was mostly just useless energy burn. I think you should just use the cadence that comes naturally and try to stay in the optimal gear.

[@gcn]

Cheers Cole

[@martinaxe6390]

This is exactly my experience as well.

[@GerLeahy]

"As with Lance Armstrong, what are they doing differently, rather than the obvious? Is there anything at the physiological level that you can determine that's different". Yes, Lance was doing something different at the physiological level. And yes, we all know so it is obvious. (great vid)

[@Daluke61]

"I've got 'Heavy ankles' "... will have to remember that one!

[@fernandosaucedo9811]

Amazing Simon! As a mountainbiker who loves hurt of clymbing (5.35” height, 63 kg) ill try both modes depends of the climb(lenght, gradient) and when im out of power just smile and my legs guide sometimes im out of the saddle at the last meters of the climb.

[@SLR6700]

High cadence is the best way to go faster. When I started to spin 100 - 120 twice a week for 3 hours on flat my performance improved dramatically. The patience to do this is extraordinary but the results are amazing. When you spin this high you shift more effort to heart and lungs. So now you have 2 good legs + strong heart and lungs to pedal. The first two weeks spinning at this rate are terrible but then you get used to it and it becomes natural.

[@404nobrakes]

Marcos De Souza did you have issues with bouncing? How did you solve that?

[@camaroblackmatte]

bollocks !

[@bengriffithsseaangling2138]

Think the whole issue is very subjective. Having tried both, I find a good balance between the two at around 85rpm works for me. I could only find any decent power (which isn't much) from weight lifting. Subequently, this gave me a lower rpm, but made me faster.

[@SLR6700]

Saurabh Kulkarni you'll bounce at the beginning but over time it stops as all muscles involved in the movement adapt. But make sure your seat is not too high otherwise the bouncing will never stop.

[@SLR6700]

JM AF it takes huge motivation. I was doing it for races. But like I said the first 2 weeks are the hardest or maybe 1st month. Anyone who doubts this system should put it to the test. It doesn't need to be 3 hours spinning if you're not training for races, just change your style to high cadence and you'll benefit.

[@christill]

I tend to prefer a faster cadence most of the time when I’m on flat. But going uphill, sometimes I want to spin and sit down, and other times I want to get out of the saddle and pedal slower. I also love that different professionals have vastly different styles. When Froome attacks in his frantic seated style, it’s exciting to watch. But other guys like Contador with his dancing style was also good to watch.

[@BizInTheFrontPartyInTheBack]

I’ve definitely noticed as I’ve gotten faster on the bike that my preferred cadence on all terrain has decreased. Any thoughts on why that may be the case? I used to be quite high - between 94 and 98. Now I’m normally just under 90.

[@taooflovepassionandcomedy8722]

As an older but keen cyclist one needs the exercise as well as the challenge of getting their without dying I found spinning made the whole journey far easier simply because my bike was stuck in the small cog at the front and would not change so I dealt with it an lo and behold it has changed my attitude to cycling for ever, pleasure over pain.

[@disgruntledtoons]

I think we all know how Lance Armstrong did so well on the climb...

[@christopherfairfowl5521]

disgruntledtoons yes, interesting, he was a bad boy but regardless of drugs he was the best and fastest for longest.

[@ytwos1]

Yes, let’s just disregard drugs. He also was a monster to friends.

[@bronxcheer1484]

Christopher Fairfowl - there is no way to separate his natural ability from his chemical advantage. He used PED’s during all of his TDF wins and before that. However we do know that he never finished closer than 8 minutes from the winner prior to winning his first TDF.

[@chocolate_squiggle]

@@christopherfairfowl5521 But because of the drugs, he wasn't the best though, was he?

[@derhengstermaster]

The music in the beginning is spot on perfect :)

[@50nakamura]

I have always trained my leg muscle by grinding and my cardio by spinning, thus developping both strenght and endurance. I think it made me more efficient when pedaling at my natural cadence and a bit more of a complete cyclist!

[@carlmons]

The most important part begins at 11 minutes. Essentially, if you're not racing 3+ day stage races you should not be trying to spin like TDF yellow jersey guys. This is the best I've heard it explained. Glad to finally see someone who's not preaching high-cadence is the answer for everyone.

[@gregorypellegrini3326]

Grinding @ 80 RPM?!!! Looks like we don’t have the same dictionnary 😂. Try again @ 60RPM, that’s what I’d call grinding

[@grobert1279]

exactly

[@madyogi6164]

Precisely! It also depends what gears set up is used. I start "pushing" pedals when dropping below 70, 68 is minimum but 74 -76 is like best fitting for me. I feel then, like I'm riding "for free". 78 RPM and I shift to next gear to not "overtorque" at 80 RPM or any higher. I feel like dumblesly waving my legs just to move them around and not do any useful, effective pedalling. My gears are 52T at the front and 11-23T / 11-25T cassettes. Note that 52x11 shifting at 70 RPM gives nearly 42 km/h, and 52x12 at 80 RPM is even faster... If you're amteur (like I am), try holding it for 40 kilometers or more? Can you? 85-100 RPM average? Heart attack! I never believe any of that, when amateur riders push me this kind of news... Pure rubbish or one is spinning 39T and 25T at the rear...

[@mondragonadventures7093]

I might of changed my endurance muscle twitch fibers. Because I can work I to the deeper and quite harder gear to get MORE rest within the pedal rotation over a a 3/4 mile pull on My Fuji TranSonic carbon bike. It’s less painful to get up to my faster mph effort. Up hill is to use gears, and now I will pay attention to how many gears I click up to from the deeper level I like. Thank you for this is my new question to answer for myself.

[@CuddlyStingray0731]

I just did 83.5 miles on Saturday and I can say that I spin to win! But it all comes down to what cadence I feel is most efficient! I find myself spinning at in a high gear than others that are spinning. Great Content as always!

[@gcn]

Glad you enjoyed it Richard!

[@Noj426]

I've been up that hill! Definitely a tough one

[@michaelmcnaughton1535]

I've read that delivering constant power to the pedals at a fairly constant crank rpm is a decent strategy. Power is proportional to crank torque X crank rpm. Power is consumed my climbing and friction. Judicious use of the gear selector will allow constant power at constant rpm. Going uphill, shift down (because climbing is consuming the same power as level riding but at lower speed). This system does not convert particularly well on steep climbs but overall it allows me to give my maximum overall. It serves well when bucking a head wind (more power consumed by friction so to keep constant RPM, gear down). PS, I am a casual rider and seldom ride more than 20-miles in a go.

[@Quicksilver_Cookie]

I can't grind, just physically. After few minutes my knee joints feel like they will explode.

[@tonyb9735]

By standing on the peddles during the "grinding" run you comprised the results. You changed two things; the cadence AND the peddling stance (standing versus sitting). As a result we don't now know if the improvement in time came from standing on the peddles or from the lower cadence.

[@onoriotorti795]

High Cadence equals less fatigue metabolites, especially in a grand tour where you have to race for three weeks,no reason froome won the Giro 👍

[@gaul849]

Hi there are a few things to consider when cadence of climbing. I find in some climbs a slower rpm even using the larger crank gear t53, to get optimal power and acceleration at around a gradient of 6ish. It dose matter of body type as well undulating gradient can cause distruptions in cadence. You don't want to be cycling at 75 rpm then drop bellow 55rpm no matter what power you are producing. When selecting gearing your going to get more problems cross chaining from a higher crank gear to a lower rear gear, Like going to a t53 to a 25 at the back. You can get more problems shifting, gears can slip riding can become more unpleasant. Going from a smaller crank gear to a higher gear at the back you probably get less issues apart from wearing your chain faster.

[@pw8420]

Spin to win, dance like Lance

[@Zwiesel66]

You mean dope to win - pretty bad example

[@camaroblackmatte]

you get doped and try to win..lets see it !!

[@zakswan4644]

Or is it grind like Jan

[@chadkent1241]

Zwiesel66 and your point is? I guarantee the top 10 or 15 Riders during Lance's tenure were all doping too...

[@Zwiesel66]

Chad, my point is, we are talking too much about these riders like they did a harmless crime. They betrayed their fans and their competitors and earned a lot of money that way. If someone robs a bank, do you do it too? What others did or do will never be an excuse for your own actions - you are responsible for your actions. Beside Jan, Lance is a very disgusting example for doping.

[@ECOcycliste-mc8rw]

Dear Simon (+GCN-Team), thank you for this content. Even viewers with English not as a first language can understand it very well! Please tell Emma, she should also talk slower in the upcoming videos. Love her comments, but have to listen mostly twice. Большое спасибо! ... and for old men like me, 75-80rpm is spinning, we raced the Stelvio w. 42/24 more than 40 years ago, cadences under 60 were normal in the 1970s - a cadence over 90 uphill impacts heart flutter in my age!

[@charlienicholls2068]

High cadence, low gear, feels better on the muscles for me

[@rg807]

This is very rider specific. Hinualt often climbed in a 53/15, Pantani geared high too. Froome and Armstrong, obviously use(d) much lower gearing. When I was younger and used real rollers and rode the track my cadence was much higher. Now, I'm older and I've found that climbing in the big ring or switching back and forth in the middle of a climb from high to low cadence is actually faster for me than just trying to maintain a high cadence.

[@danfuerthgillis4483]

If you have a cheaper bike you need to try to eliminate as much noise from chain rub, cogs , pedal bracket noise etc. This noise will impact your performance huge especially on bigger climbs as the noise will distract you. This is obviously one of the most important issues when climbing as more pressure will be put on the components. Listening to music is a good way to dissipate some of that noise. GCN should cover this topic.

[@rustymaximus9179]

I hate it when a loud pipes motorbike goes by. The noise makes me wilt!

[@paulfaulkner6299]

Listening to music and going off into a world of your own is a way to get killed through inattention. *Do not put plugs in your ears and listen to music - it's dangerous!*

[@mauser8515]

The way I was taught was to stay seated, and spin. That spinning was using less muscles in the body, so I wouldn't be using as many calories or carbs. Probably total BS, but it's what I was taught. It took me a while to adjust or learn to grind or stand and climb. It is worth learning both techniques, to simply be able to pedal in a group. Those little bursts of speeds are really needed to keep your position in a group.

[@ReeseSYL]

All I know is, when I pass road riders on the mountain bike with a slow cadence it kills their spirit. Being passed by a guy on a 39 lbs mtn bike spinning a 50/36/21 on a 9 speed 11/23 in the rear (not stock gears) makes people question their spin cadence education (most of them into 3 digits spin). I usually climb in the big ring no matter what bike I'm on, because I hate to go to the gym. It all comes down to the gears that you can hold, for how long. I realise that I'm not a "normal" rider. I had over 12K miles last year on the road. I like the BIG ring climb. I just recently had new Q-Rings installed on my Scott TT bike, (19 lbs) a 54/44 with a 11 speed 11/25 cassette. This was after taking off my old D/A 55/42 with 11/23 cassette. That's not normal either. I still climb in the 54 most of the time. The thing is I have been breaking PR's since the change. Climbing cross chain 54 to my 25, on pretty much all of my climbs, (instead of 55 to 23). So the question is... Am I faster now because I spin faster? Or did my slow grind in the 55 big ring for the last year make my climbing get stronger, and now that I have the power to spin higher cadence I'm faster. Or, does working out the flat spot in my pedal stroke with the Q-Rings really help? I also took an extra 10 minutes off my 40k TT time (hardly over 55 min). That being said, I use the advice from a Tri-guy I met once. His advice... If your heart can't do the time... your body will NEVER go the distance. It's not as hard as we think, ANY exercise that you do comes down to elevated heart conditioning. Get a heart rate monitor. Nothing more to start. Distance means nothing, if your heart can't get there with you. Also... The best kept secret ... Increase the your oxygen to the head. Test nose strips to see what position is best for you. Anyone that has tried when I put one on them out riding, continue to use them each time after. Lack of oxygen to the brain causes all kind of problems. This is the best and simplest way to get faster. Or start with 3 less potato chips a week. I've lost about 100 lbs since riding, no surgeries. Starting out with the weight, was a help to use as advantage now. I don't recommend that approach though. Just get out and do ANYTHING !!! and just have fun.

[@williamrosenberg9206]

Being a touring cyclist and not a racing cyclist, I ride a bike that once the camping gear is on the bike that can weigh anywhere from 60 to 100 pounds (27 to 45 kilos) and my climbs are often in the rockies. I spin with a target cadence of 95. But my gear ratios and gear inches over 27 gears give me lots of options.

[@LUCYDIAMONDBOXER1]

Between 75-95 cadence. More importantly is being in the right gear to achieve desired cadence

[@leaddispenser9]

Yes. 100% agree

[@codyeynon8467]

I ride in higher gears at lower cadence to train for strength or on shorter rides. I ride in lower gears at higher cadence on longer rides or longer climbs to save energy. You have to think about what you are trying to accomplish on any given ride. The important thing for me is to feel relaxed. I am not pushing too hard and creating a lot of tension that saps my energy. Ultimately, I strive to feel power flowing without effort.

[@davepratt9909]

Is that blue sky in the background?

[@gcn]

Yes, we had some sun here in the UK!

[@Newwaveson]

@@gcn and the Hawthorn was in full flower, a stunning spring day

[@jemma_19988]

Lowest gear on my old steel racer is 18 tooth so always grind on hills.have found key to going up hills fast is more about low weight rider than bike or pedalling style

[@SwedishHouseFifa]

Spin to win if you wanna win during the 3rd week, grind if you wanna crack like Chaves and Yates!

[@derekbiggerstaff]

SwedishHouseFifa So grand tours have always been won by "spinners"? Like Indurain? Horner? Try facts.

[@derekbiggerstaff]

Anonymous DueToFascists No they didn't. You just made that up. I know this is the age of Trump but reality bites eventually.

[@derekbiggerstaff]

Anonymous DueToFascists I'm an expert at watching TV and believing my eyes rather than my fantasies.

[@derekbiggerstaff]

Anonymous DueToFascists At 5:15 they start to discuss the results including the fact that lactic readings are higher at a fast cadence. Judging from your own comments you think that is a big problem but actually the science is pretty inconclusive there too.

[@Ivan-nu2um]

Loooooooooool

[@BW_87]

Learn to be fairly comfortable with both. I find in circuit races (cat3/4 so hardly pro) I can hold the wheel and respond to increases in pace with a higher cadence (between 100-110). However, doing long climbs in Majorca I tended to climb at sweetspot HR at around 85-90 rpm. Just my take on it.

[@lsg-longshotgaming9123]

So you're telling me I could be faster if I didnt cycle on descents, flats and climbs with the same, highest gear?

[@carlstatham594]

I get a faster cadence the fitter I go. But I do like spinning 90+. I also used the British Cycling pre-season 2 month training block. Super hard and nearly all done at 90+ with the warms being much higher. This has almost trained me into a higher cadence.

[@simchirubenstein8316]

Whatever Froome does is the best.

[@williamkeys5701]

It will be nearly a decade before we find out what he "does" if Lance Armstrong is anything to go off of.

[@Stubbo1950]

I can't help feel disappointed that he won the Giro. He has a big ugly cloud over his head and it's just really hard to believe in his Herculean performance right at the end after suffering for 3 weeks to then smash the entire field. Sucks because I love cycling and want to believe in it.

[@Ivan-nu2um]

Lol do you think froome spinning make difference

[@TimpBizkit]

I usually have to modify the gear ratios on most road bikes to spin uphill (unless the hill is shallow). Like my triple chainring Saracen Helix once I replace the rusty handlebar bearing.

[@rimtism123]

High cadence for me. I feel as if it's less harsh on the knees.

[@11robotics]

Spinning for as long as possible is particularly important when doing very long days in the mountains, especially with several long climbs in succession. If you start grinding from the beginning of the day, your muscles will hurt much more at the end of the day then if you spin for as long as you can. You might not be as mechanically efficient when riding at a higher cadence, you might end up using more energy and even increase your chances to hit the wall (depending on what HR you ride at), but at least your muscles will still feel fresher at the end of the day.

[@massimoacerbis8138]

Pantani was grinding Edy mercs even slower Much less than 80

[@TheMASDrummer]

Pantani was also an alien from another universe

[@TheGotoGeek]

It was a different time, with different gearing, and different training approaches. When I was a kid I read a book (credited to Hinault, IIRC) that recommended spinning as the best technique, but also had spinning starting at 60rpm. These days 90rpm is spinning.

[@jakobza6980]

I think it also really matters that on steaper climbs the position of your bike changes in a way that the center of gravity of your body no longer lays above the cranks but slighty "behind" them when you sit in the saddle. Thaty why many like to stand up when climbing steep. They can take better advantage of their body weight, while having to work only with the legs when staying in the saddle.

[@veganmantis8364]

But I look sexier and more alpha when I grind.

[@veganmantis8364]

fabi - yes, you may get the podium....but I get the podium girls

[@LawAbidingCitizen117]

@fabi spinning is for cyclists with weak legs.

[@Ouarzazate123]

@@LawAbidingCitizen117 real cyclist have weak legs ;)

[@ahmadbassem2077]

Yes mantis assert dominance

[@davidly8059]

I’ll spin my dust on u

[@gaul849]

One of the most important things to think about is also cambier of the road like going to a hairpin. When climbing in a hairpin you are driving from the inside leg so selecting a higher gear and lowerer cadence is not such a good idea. It's also a good idea to find the shortest route, In a racing situation only you can cut off literally 100's of meters in some climbs. Cyling a higher cadence is better usually if you don't know the climb at all or if there are a lot of hairpin's. Finding gear combination is going to help a lot it is about preference. But I find at some areas of a climb I'm going to accelerate more and keep a high speed as well using a higher gear and even a high crank gear. But I used to be a bit mental now not so much.

[@glebedigital4654]

Don't think grinding is 80rpm, around 65 more like.

[@EmmbrookSchool]

Love Pr Passfield and an honest summary from Simon.

[@johnparry6832]

Incoming durianrider

[@Grunge_Cycling]

A dead meme who has never made it as a pro

[@ProEFESDEZ]

All his thumbail are his girl with little tities

[@tomasazevedo1979]

he's cool

[@piptazo1]

I still like him. He is interesting and seems to have fashioned a pretty cool life that focuses on his passions: veganism, cycling and hot chicks. But maybe not in that order.

[@michaelharold1366]

I think people who hate him need to smash their internet devices, they can’t handle it.

[@tomreingold4024]

One of your best videos. Thank you.

[@EatMyPropwash]

Typically in most situations I keep my cadence around 85-87rpm. Seems to be my comfort zone.

[@rieckstudio]

PlanesTrainsAutos lying in bed is comfy too! Look, high cadence is a trained skill. Learn it and your performance will improve

[@liamroche1473]

All points made about weight of legs (including ankles!) and lifting these didn't mention the point that the pedals are connected, so the centre of gravity doesn't change much because the legs are 180 degrees out of synch. It does change some, because the bending of the legs affects the vertical speed of the centre of gravity. If I see it correctly, the centre of gravity of a leg near maximum extension is moving quite quickly, while the centre of gravity of the other leg (with near maximum knee angle) is moving quite slowly in the opposite direction, so the sum of the two is not completely stationary, but much less than that for a single leg in isolation). Also the movement of the centre of gravity is not wasted energy: just passively putting weight on a pedal accelerates the bike, and when the centre of gravity of the legs is falling, this can be directed as force on pedals via the falling leg while, at lower intensities, the other leg can be passively raised by the pedal. Quantifying this scientifically would be interesting.

[@hondasaurusrex6998]

Keeping it at around 85 rpm... Old tourist speed.

[@loriss3419]

Maybe always riding 53*11is the reason for why you are slowest?!

[@gerrysecure5874]

Cadence is a U shaped function of power and time. I do a 10 sec all out sprint at 135rpm, a 20min ftp test uphill at 60rpm but a 2hr time trial flat at 93 rpm. Over longer time at lower intensity higher cadence gives less muscle fatigue and the cardio system is still not yet at its limit, but when the effort is short and high the additional load on the cardio system enforces less cadence and because its short the muscles can hold it.

[@ivarbrouwer197]

Test is invalid because of standing vs seated climbing, also, short climbs are better for heavy gears.

[@simonrichardson5259]

Ivar Brouwer I think that’s actually part of it. I can’t spin 95rpm out of the saddle up a climb and i suspect most people would be the same.

[@ivarbrouwer197]

Simon Richardson, thnx for your reply! maybe but there are those who grind seated an can’t climb standing(ullrich) while some almost dance standing and look fluid (Contador) in their words standing does not equate grinding. (There are more then 2 methods for getting to Rome...)

[@jacobandrachel9957]

Another thing that I thought might be worth examining is that grinding would require more muscle to achieve the same speed as spinning. Like the difference between high rep and low rep weight lifting. More muscle means more weight means more power needed to move the same speed. Logically spinning would keep you lighter which would mean faster. This would obviously not be seen in a single test or short term period.

[@thecyclingdane]

Grind for the win but it will mess up your knees :'(

[@ClockCutter]

Has Sean Kelly or Bernard Hinault had knee replacement surgery? I'm both expressing skepticism and also wondering if that's so. A supple pedal stroke even in big gears is relatively easy on the knees.

[@thecyclingdane]

Haha good point, only speaking from my point :P

[@derekbiggerstaff]

I occasionally suffer from from what seems likely to be "iliotibial tract friction syndrome" and this can result in severe pain on the outside of the knee. Low gears bring this on more quickly. Grinding also seems to work for me when trying to sustain a high wattage.

[@jordywilliams]

Poor bike fit will lead to injury, not grinding

[@souloftheage]

NEVER. I have had 3 knee surgeries and the force of "grinding" is minimal compared to the force of just jumping in place. I use NO float in my pedals either(cartilage damage). With float it feels like my knee is sliding on ice. Without float(no pro rider uses float, they are so exactly "tuned in" to their bike) my knee feels secure. I am a wide guy: wider hips and shoulders. I use pedal extenders on my pedals to move them out laterally. I also use a 48cm bar to torque on!. I weigh 115kg. I spin at 90-110 on the flat. I am seated pretty low in the saddle and therefore am so aero my good cycling buddies can't catch me on he flat. Different story going UPHILL.....HAHAHA!(OUCHY). I ride with high intensity a route of 25 or almost 50miles/day. My blood pressure is 94/52 and my resting heart rate is 48BPM. I "NEEDED" AN EMERGENCY cardiology consult at Mayo Clinic once. The cardiolgist looked at me and shaking his head said "If only I were THAT ill!!. You're fine. You're more than fine....but you knew that." And I did.

[@ChrisThePlantBasedRunner]

Been watching you guys along time. You all definitely put in the work and deserve the success! Another great video!

[@Krisszhu1990]

Easy: I'm fat, no one wants to see me pedal out of the saddle. Besides this, if I put 100kg on the pedals out of the saddle, my cranks actually bend :'D

[@oldfartcycling]

I'm 6'3" and 100kg, too. If you have the legs to match, you might be surprised how out-of-the-saddle climbing works well for you.

[@Krisszhu1990]

Yeah, for 6'3" 100kg is somewhat better then for a 5'8" guy :D Besides this, I made the mistake in my teen and early twenties, to weightlift/powerlift... This did not help with the knees. Can squat with 200kg but cant stay out of the saddle for more then a minute.

[@oldfartcycling]

Flankeinstein Mr. My knees suck, too. I’m a Bilateral TKR candidate in the long run. Big powerful legs and, according to my orthopedist, “shitty, shitty little knees.” But, I can do things on the bike that I can’t do standing. Keeps me mobile.

[@Krisszhu1990]

Damn. Good luck with the TKR, hopefully you can ride thousands and thousands of miles until you have to undergo the surgery.

[@pidsadny]

90-100rpm on 165mm cranks feels natural to me, and I can maintain speed longer than when I was stuck on 172.5mm cranks spinning at 80rpm. I can also zip up hills quicker with shorter cranks, where I felt the need to climb out of the saddle and grind with longer ones. So, if you are going to change cadence, I think changing the crank arms to match makes sense.

[@alexanderprime8205]

Actually only thing that matters is being on keto diet and bringing a bottle of olive oil with you

[@RussellCatchpole]

I think it depends on each rider's physiology, that is to say whether it's the cardiovascular system or the muscles that give up first. For me it's the c/v system, I can rarely push my legs hard enough to hurt them, even on Mount Teide (2,350 vertical metres) on my smart trainer. 3hrs 15mins relentless climbing, but my legs felt fine at around 50rpm.