Good or bad, improved chambers, and fire forming

[@CyclopsJoeVideos]

Easily one of the best KZbin channels

[@markandsamafterwork]

You do a great job on your channel too, Cheers and all the best.

[@nk-dw2hm]

As an american, I appreciate a channel that is dedicated to information. Too many over here just use click bait and fear to drive sales for their sponsors

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Man, Cheers

[@stevebostic4874]

A very good explanation about the cause and effect of improving and the need for barrel length to gain the best results. As always a pleasure to sit with you and learn.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Steve, Cheers

[@scottwilson1258]

Great Video.You have explained a complex process so it is easy to Understand. Thank You for your experience.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Scott

[@duggydo]

A lot of the reloading channels are talking about case separation in the last week or so. Your explanation is quite a bit more detailed. 👍🏻

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers Man, Thanks

[@louwgreeff4195]

Was helping a buddy to reload once fired hornady factory ammo on a 300winmag and almost 1/3 had bad case neck separation, i was advised to not do a full case resize and only size the neck, would love your take on this. regards

[@johannesvanhoek9080]

I appreciate your accurate info concerning these issues , the best to you both 👍

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Johannes, Cheers

[@rudolphferdinand3634]

I am a 30 caliber nut, so my first hunting rifle was the 300 Weatherby magnum Remington 700 24” barrel. I turned to the more popular cartridge 30-06 Springfield. If you reload what comes to mind is, what can I do with the ‘06, I come across information on the AI 30-06. Got this slowpoke rifle from Winchester mdl 70 24” barrel, I had the chamber changed to AI fireformed the cartridges. It was believed that there would be little gained around 100 FPS well going by Ackley’s reload information the velocity gained 200+ FPS with a 180 grains bullet. I used IMR 4350 for about 1/2 grain more. Fire forming the drawback to the AI cartridge, so I used a 110-grain bullet. It did work! More efficient cartridge than the parent cartridge.

[@markandsamafterwork]

thanks Man, Cheers

[@3006USMC]

Who did you send your bbl to for the AI chambering?

[@aaronbuckmaster7063]

Good job explaining how to form and why you use a false shoulder. In 1979 when we made the first 264 Win Mag Improved, that barrel shot more accurately fire-forming the cases than the following improved cases. The smoothest, fastest feeding cartridge we use is our 6.5 / 240 Weatherby. We made that in 1979 too. Sweet little cartridge. It’s not far behind a 6.5 - 06. Everything you’ve done to your improved cartridge and barrels is what you have to do to flatten those loops at distance. Just looking at that cartridge I know exactly what I will do at a mile and further. Very well done.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Aaron, lots of history there, thanks you for all your efforts over the years, glad you liked, cheers and all the best.

[@jamesreid-powell9497]

By far the best informative shooting videos I have ever seen! Great videos Mark and Sam!

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks James, Cheers

[@þþþþþþþþþ]

Definitely an underwatched channel. Excellent presentation!

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers Man, glad you liked, thanks

[@Is_Time_A_Number]

Great info and presentation. Thanks as always.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Rob

[@planeiron241]

It's all about the bits n pcs..... Great Vid👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍🎯🎯🎯🎯🎯🎯🎯🎯

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers man

[@themountainraven]

Mark you're a wealth of information, i really really appreciate all the videos you guys have done. You definitely reignited my learning into a tuning and making a better rifle.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers Man, thanks

[@michaelreed1380]

Good or bad, one thing is for certain.. they sure look cool. And that is at least half of it! Good episode Mark, thanks!

[@markandsamafterwork]

Lol, Cheers

[@biggs8729]

Excellent content, Thank you. I definitely feel like I now have a decent understanding of what an improved chamber is.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers Man

[@_JimS]

Really enjoyed this, thanks. I'm a wildcat-er, with a .22-243 Middlestead. I enjoy being different and loading to precision specs so when it all goes right you know it was you. Cheers

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers Man, thanks

[@stewmanmilner7843]

Just started reloading a few months ago and only shooting out to 1000 m so far. All great info!!

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@3006USMC]

Welcome to the club!🇺🇸

[@sancharino4672]

Awesome videos. Your presenting information that took me years to learn. You guys are a valuable resource to the community. Especially people new to shooting and reloading. I still learn something new every day. After 22 yrs of reloading.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Man, we do what we can, glad you liked, Cheers

[@lawrencefrancis350]

You are the real Tim Allen from the United States of America. He had a show that had him always trying to give more horsepower to his tools. It just hit me while watching you explain improving on your cars and making bullets go further, lol! Great video, love your channel

[@markandsamafterwork]

Lol, cheers

[@jheasley1]

Thank you so very much for posting this video and for your knowledge. This helps clarify a number of questions I’ve had about AI cartridges as well as fire forming.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Man

[@henryhenry5897]

I fulllengthsize always with 2 thou shoulder bump. Not a fan of necksize, but with all respect you have accomplished way more in shooting than I am and it seems to work for you and all of matter is what works. Very interesting process fore forming. Thanks

[@markandsamafterwork]

Yes, always about what works, lol, Cheers

[@freedomforourfallen3755]

Always good info. Thanks

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@jameshutchins3396]

Fascinating. Thank you sir.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@conservativesniperhunter7439]

Well done Mark that was very interesting 👍.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@thebigsurg]

Great Video!!!

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Man

[@14goldmedals]

Straighten out a paper clip and sharpen one end to a sharp point. Then bend the sharp end 90° about 5mm back from the point. On the other end bend it into a small circle for a handle. Grab a brass case and insert the sharp end down into the case to the bottom. With the point touching the inside wall of the case, slowly pull it out scratching along the case wall. If you feel a groove repeat at more points around the case wall. That groove you feel is where the case is getting ready to split. In normal reloading this is due to having your sizing die too low and setting the shoulder way too far back. This also happens with belted magnum cases that headspace on the belt.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks man, Cheers

[@stewmanmilner7843]

Great channel, learn do much, keep it up!

[@markandsamafterwork]

WE try, Cheers man thanks

[@jackkrimmer3914]

I experienced significantly shortened brass life with neck/shoulder cracks appearing in my 257 AI. The solution was annealing the brass before and after fire forming. I noticed that your improved brass exhibited what looked like the typical. annealing color change in the neck/shoulder area and wondered if you had the same problem. Might be a good hint to pass on to others. I really enjoy watching your vids!

[@markandsamafterwork]

Well yes some brass has issues, you always have work with your combo and find what it needs, FYI most fresh brass has just been annealed, also you will find some wildcatting processes need annealing during the work, just depends on the details, Cheers

[@ConservativeVet84]

.35 Whelen Improved. Love cartridges like this, always have.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@OnTheFritz602]

Great video, been thinking about a .280 AI. Seems like it would be *almost* like a 7 Rem Mag, but you could get another round in a standard Mauser magazine, and not have to alter the bolt face.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers Man, thanks

[@johanlindh737]

Do it. Just get a SAAMI reamer.

[@thecheapshot1065]

You and the real gun smith and GunBlue i think his name is are three of the best most knowledgeable rifle men on the tubes. There is also a guy whos name i cant think of but i believe his first name is Eric C. are the smartest gun and cartridge dudes around

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers Man, thanks

[@williamuskoski1385]

Very well explained. Thank you 👍

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers Will, thanks

[@lukefenech]

Perfect timing. I am in the middle of a 243AI build and it's my first improved chamber rifle. Struggling with the decision as to the method of fireforming but I think I'll go the "no projectile pistol powder and filler" method. Thank you!

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers Luke, Thanks

[@barrydeacon3551]

Fireforming with a loaded round was my choice. I have 17/222 30 degree shoulder, 22/250 improved 30 degree shoulder, 243 impact 30 degree shoulder. All fire formed with loaded round plus tight necks 1000 clearance around the neck….. they all shoot bug holes. 17/222 my coyote gun with 30 grain bullet: easily shoot them out to 450…… You definitely want the shoulders blown out sharply: something to watch for

[@FNU_SNU]

​@@barrydeacon3551What (if any) effect on accuracy did you observe while fire forming using loaded cartridges? I'am considering an AI chambering in a .338 Lapua and being able to utilize ammunition available to me to obtain improved brass would be a great benefit.

[@sterlingwilkey2124]

Mark awesome video and very informative. I know its expensive but I believe Hornady can make a custom hydro forming dies. I believe you send them a couple of fire formed brass and they will make the die

[@markandsamafterwork]

Yes, bit of a process, but that is also an option, Cheers

[@sancharino4672]

I should add. My next project will be a .25 gibbs or possibly a 30-284. Depending on on which barrel burns up first. And I'm looking forward to possibly screwing up some brass to get it right with the gibbs.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Sounds great, Cheers

[@cody182005]

Great job explaining that. Always appreciate you sharing knowledge. I went with a 338 edge a few years back and the chamber was a little more improved than just a standard 300RUM neck up. So I needed to put the bump on the neck like yourself to stopmisfires. Bit of a headache at first but once i done 200 pieces in initial fire forming that will likely last me a long time. Maybe a more detailed video of the fireforming method you use would be beneficial. Theres not too much in the way of that on youtube and maybe thats because those kinda things get flagged now I guess. Cheers!

[@markandsamafterwork]

Yes, not something get can get too far into, but help where we can, Cheers

[@johnventers5128]

Great information as usual. Thanks guys.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks John, Cheers

[@barrydeacon3551]

I’ve half a dozen ackley improved from 17/222 tight neck to 243 improved tight neck. Only way to fly in my book. I use the aluminum single shot adapter for my 700 Remington actions. Carry 3 shells on the scope. Not very often need a 2 nd shot unless 2 or more coyotes come in. My 17 is my favourite: deadly out past 400 with 30 hpbt . When I take them to the range: excellent results are shown…. My guns were built mid 70’s - early 80’s. leupold scopes, Macmillan stocks, jewel triggers and custom barrels. Anybody thinking of going over to ackley improved gun build: never look back!

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Barry

[@fomerbu]

Thanks for the good information

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@markandsamafterwork]

👍

[@chriscosby2459]

I am interested in fire forming .270 Winchester brass to .280 Remington AI. I am seeing that it can be done, but I would think the case life would be shortened. The danger of case head separation it also a concern. Great info though. Thanks

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@kerrypurcell6022]

i am getting a 8mm-06 on a howa action,,looked into the 8mm-06 ackley ,, but thought it might be more trouble than its worth,,,,your video explains all of this very well,,, a great video,,,,,,,

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers Kerry, thanks

[@marvinrayweast]

After 3 wildcats, two great shooters, one not so much, I am working on my fourth. All have been AI shoulders except for the latest. I like the idea of putting the bump or false shoulder in the neck, I will have to try that. I have always put heavy neck tension and hard seated the bullets to hold the case in place. After fire forming, I take an underweight or overweight case and section it to see what the case looks like in the ring-prone area. So far this method has worked for me. But I will try your bump method.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@donbenson5292]

I do that with a 270 case necked down to 6mm with just a snug bolt close, .246 neck length and a 35 degree shoulder. If you haven't done it yet, it is easy. Worked very well for me. I got great groups, half inch typical, with fireforming. I pushed 70 gr moly coated btips at 3800 fps in a 27 inch barrel. Barrel life wasn't long but sure hammered a groundhog.

[@robinepps7274]

Can't wait for your take on the 33xc!

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@walterluiz4694]

Very good my friend. Cheers

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@Anon.Emouse]

I use that false shoulder technique combined with jamming the bullet 0.015" into the lands to fireform my 6mm Dasher brass. Same as your Gibbs, only on a much smaller scale :- )

[@markandsamafterwork]

Yep that should do as well as can be done, Cheers man, all the best.

[@havocjones8309]

Parker was my teacher as well as Mr.Nichols Holbrook AZ

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@chrismiller6792]

Always very informative mark ;-) cheers 🍻 in the new year I’ll donate for the club membership. Really appreciate all you help mate. And the new 4aw break has fixed the push down I was having from the stock lithgow one ;-) slow mo shots are great 😊

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Chris, great that all worked out, Cheers

[@mybuickskill6979]

With the 375 fire forming. It seems like seating the bullet into the lands would negate the need for all that work on it neck. Just lighten the load a bit and jam the bullet. (Factory seconds type bullets would help preserve the good ones for the cause)

[@markandsamafterwork]

Nope, think about it, you need to stop the "brass" moving, the bullet is leaving the scene, real fast, no matter what you do, lol, Cheers

[@johnny30806]

Excellent info. Matches up precisely with my findings on reloading. Not many people teach reloading, so you have to just jump in and document your findings. 👍

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Johnny Cheers

[@HPAcustomriflesandcerakote]

Its like this and this is coming from a gunsmith who has built several ackley improved chambered rifles. If your going to build one then build one thats worth it. Stay away from cartridges with short necks like 300win mag which is not a good cartridge to begin with. 06 family and 280rem/270win dont gain much performance from it. The best cartridges to AI are 7x57mauser, 6.5x55swede, 257rbts, 250/3000, 6mm rem, 6br norma, 22/250. You gain a lot of performance from them and they have a long neck so you arent burning barrels out quicker. Hell look at the 6bra (6br ackley improved) its set more records at 600yd and 1000yd in benchrest than any cartridge.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@blueridgeboy6791]

I would love to see a video from you guys using a 280 Ackley improved, using say a 168grain berger/or 168grain nosler accunond long range projectile. Say using a 24 to 27 in barrel. Ive heard say that it basically matches a 7mm rem mag. None the less grate video, thanks for all you do.

[@markandsamafterwork]

You are welcome to sponsor a build like that, but no plans other wise, Cheers

[@louwgreeff4195]

If one were to improve a chamber, in layman's terms regardless of how it is done, bottom line is you end up running more powder, hence bigger bang, is the barrel and bolt able to safely hold those extra pressures? Logic tells me that you need xxx amount of steel around the chamber to contain the bang, so if you remove some of this is means you weakened the chamber?

[@markandsamafterwork]

No, not how it works, more gas, more/longer push, same pressure, so same load on components, Cheers

[@hantusmostert]

What do you think of the 277 SIG Fury Cartridge that utilizes a hybrid case technology made from brass and some other materials. Apparently the combination is rated to handle 80,000 psi of chamber pressure.

[@hantusmostert]

@@JohnnyTurbo87 Guess Inconel 625 barrels (flow formed rifling) would be expensive

[@markandsamafterwork]

A bit off topic, and as in many things, more is not always better, Cheers

[@everythingphil9376]

I have a 6.5x55 AI project in the works. Nosler recommends a light charge, fast power with the bullet touching the lands to support the head. I was thinking of doing that instead of just forming with packed tissue paper so I can at target shoot while forming 😁

[@markandsamafterwork]

Yes, as said all in the details, lol, Cheers

[@timmcfarland3311]

Very informative. Was considering building a .338 lapua AI cause I read that Burger is coming out with a 330 grain bullet for it. I always wondered about necking down the .50 bmg to fit the .416 bullets. But using the full size case instead of cutting it down a bit like the .416 if that would do any good or be a waste. That’s for the video. Always informative

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Tim, well fits under the bracket of more isn't always better, but has been done, Cheers

[@timmcfarland3311]

I just got done reading a big article from David Tubbs and his 33XC and 37XC talk about improved cases right there. Think my imagination gets the best of me sometimes hehe. Think I’ll just stick with my .308 and .300 rum. Thanks. Keep the videos coming

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@FNU_SNU]

​@@timmcfarland3311What made you give up on the the .338 Lapua AI? I am currently considering one myself and would greatly appreciate the input.

[@oddursigurdsson3046]

Great info and explanations, as always :) Thx for sharing. Guess a 6.5 CM AI would be a good thing ;) ?

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Oddur, and lol, Cheers

[@dragonflyfab9703]

6.5 cm is already 30*

[@dustincowan5427]

Have you heard of hydraulic form dies? Just want to hear your thoughts on it.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Yes I have heard, but I have not found the need, so have not used, Cheers

[@altruisticscoundrel]

Great work on the video and explanation, as usual. Thank you. Using the pistol powder and then packing a good amount of toilet paper into the brass, how much paper do you use? A square? 2 squares?

[@markandsamafterwork]

Depends on the cartridge, its a tial and error thing, but as said I rarely use, cheers

[@AH-ly2cq]

Depends how big a hole is.

[@jeremys8360]

What’s your opinion on 243 ai?

[@markandsamafterwork]

I'll let you know in a while, after I have used it a bit, lol, Cheers

[@lucmaille7920]

Wondering how much improvement you would have had if you would have just went to the longer barrel without changing the chamber. No doubt you would get an increase just be doing that. Just how much would be a good question.

[@markandsamafterwork]

How long is a piece of sting? lol, all in the details, otherwise all explained in the video.....Cheers

[@jeffreyweekley6974]

What kind of engines do you build ?

[@markandsamafterwork]

V8's, Chev,Holden, Ford, Hemi, etc

[@tobiastorsi]

I have ordered a 7WSM and want to convert brass from .270WSM since I dont like the Brass availiable in 7WSM. Do you think I will run into problems because the body is shorter? Thanks!

[@markandsamafterwork]

Nope. Cheers

[@rgthomson1]

I like the vids and your knowledge on stuff like this and it makes a great hobby with fun on doing it when it all turns out nice, i dont do it simply bc if i want an improved case bc etc on say a 243 i would just go straight to a 284 and that would be a big long range improvement, if you wanted you can always get bigger than the Gibbs say 50 bmg case, not tryin to be a troll here just sayin, but a lot of fun to do your thing if you like it, with the state i see some reloaders at, my advice is dont do it unless you are an advanced loader and very competent, there are a lot of pitfalls to this

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers