Goth YouTubers: Materialism, Hive Mind, and Sphere of Influence

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[@angelabenedict]

Great video and as always great points! I think you're right, we really don't give the younger generation enough credit. We were once young Goths as well trying to find our way-- And we did, we managed. Thank you for reminding me of that. They have far more resources available to them which is something I'm sure we would have killed for back in our younger days. The problem is nowadays as social media evolves there are a lot of distractions. I'm guilty of falling prey to it myself. I go online for a specific purpose and suddenly I'm watching Ozzyman Reviews or mini-docs on silent film actresses when all I was supposed to do was order some damn face wash. I think a lot of my fears about the future of the subculture come from what I've observed. That hive mind issue we discussed (Cover Winkler with bees!) etc and how fast people are to act without question is something that I find worrying because it highlights a mentality that's been fostered. One of the side effects is no critical thinking nor accountability. Some of them become so hypnotized by 'stuff'. Some stuff can make you cool but a lot of stuff makes you a sort of demagogue and that's the person whose going to point a finger and send their army to avenge them. One aspect of being a Goth is appearance. Your hair, your make-up and your clothes. Since I started venturing out into the world as a Goth I'd plan my looks in advance depending on occasion. I still do! Whether you choose to thrift and DIY or wear Punk Rave this is your own prerogative. There's nothing wrong with wanting a collection of pikes or corsets or just having nice things in general or even just the desire to! However, that's not ALL there is. Many will argue that Goth is simply an aesthetic. Just the fashion and nothing more. Now to me, this does a great disservice to all of those who wrote the music, fought for studio time, secured venues, made zines and flyers-- People who worked to build this subculture that we call home. A subculture that's as intrinsic to us as we are to it. For someone say Goth is just fashion and then using their influence to impart the same message is insulting as well as damaging. There's always been a sort of unspoken kinship with other Goths. When we see one we have a tendency to ascribe at least some musical knowledge however in doing so today when you have people appropriating the look without actually being part of the subculture you stand being called an 'elitist' for simply attempting to strike up a conversation about music.

[@KaiDecadence]

Very well said. I think this is a case of "I'm open minded for the most part but there are somethings that have to be in tact to preserve the identity" sorta speak. And yeah, the simple thought of "Oh Goth is just an aesthetic, nothing more" is a slap in the face to the world renown magazine of Goth "Propaganda", you can tell the workers of that magazine put lots of time and effort into those and I just learned of them when I was doing my last reaction video (though I have seen some snippets prior on google searches). I'm pretty much of the same thought that it's so easy to learn the basics of Goth today because there's info everywhere with a simple click of the button. That's why to me, there's not that much excuse to not be somewhat knowledgeable though like you said, the internet can also be distracting so I try to keep that in mind as well. Anyway, I'm rambling. Great post!

[@AlixandreaCorvyn]

Agreed! It annoys me a bit that my most watched videos are the ones on 'stuff' - charity shopping, wardrobe tours etc. vs my gig videos and musician diaries, which only get a few hundred views if I'm lucky. I mean, it's flattering that people like my style, and I enjoy teaching people that it's possible to be Goth without spending loads of money with my thrifting videos, but it's sad to me that my true creative side - the music making and performing - gets ignored... The thing is, we make the sort of videos that get the most views, don't we? So if people aren't interested in our music etc. but do love our clothing vids, we make more clothing vids and fewer tour diaries or whatever. So we are partly to blame... (@gothicrockgoddess here under my day to day profile, by the way, just in case it wasn't obvious). ;-)

[@1015SaturdayNight]

Angela Benedict You're so right Angela, and I'm glad this is getting discussed because wow are things different now with Instagram and KZbin.

[@aytakk]

When everyone is shouting no one is listening. Criticism and counter-argument are not personal attacks. Great video!

[@vampireleniore]

I would have to personally agree that the music is the most important aspect of the goth subculture. It is the foundation that this entire movement was built on. With that being said, I feel that goth bleeds into every aspect of our lives. It's about the music, the fashion, the literature, and how we see things. It's about finding beauty even in the shadows. I am completely in love with this subculture and when you are truly in love with it, you are hungry for the knowledge. You are hungry for the music, the fashion, the literature, and if my area had a scene, I would be a part of it as well (plus, I have cancer, so my body isn't up for dancing all night anymore, or traveling for two hours to the nearest goth club). Sometimes, it does annoy me when there are people going around telling people it's only about the fashion, but it can't be helped and this sort of thing happens in every subculture, I'm sure. No need for people to get hung up on it. Instead, those of us who do know what it's all about can spread the word about all aspects of the culture and get others to fall in love with it like we have. For me personally, I am quite materialistic, but I don't at all consider that to mean one is shallow. We are an artistic subculture and our fashion and makeup are forms of artistic expression for us. I find D.I.Y. to be fun and interesting, but if I see something beautiful and I really like it (and I have the money for it), I will buy it and wear it. Not to mention that purchasing pieces from a goth designer is supporting members of the goth community and I have nothing against that. If I can help someone in my subculture pay their rent, cool.

[@mothermadness3586]

i think the biggest problem is, that we live in times where all subcultures are being commercialized, or in other words, especially the fashion industry is telling the youth what subcultre they have to belong to this year. one year the trend is 90s fashion, the other year it's hippy style and so on. when you go to coachella festival, you pretend to be a hippy for some days even tho you're far from really being a hippy. back in the days it was different, you didn't chose a subculture but the subculture chose you. you didn't change for a subculture but you found the subculture by being the way you already are. that doesn't exist anymore today, it's not about identity anymore. that's why we have so many strange people in the community. and what's even worse, they get into goth culture and want to fit in immediately 100%, so they force new things into the culture that originally never were part of it. and everyone who doesn't agree with that is called an elitist.

[@chloeb.4838]

I used to dress gothy af to the 9s as a babybat. I realized quickly that I can't wear clothes that aren't comfortable (now i know it's because I'm autistic and have over-sensitivities) but I am still goth. I love goth music, and I wear a lot of black or whatever... but I don't care about making my "appearance". I still fucking love and appreciate deathrockers and tradgoths and the like. I just know myself enough to know that I don't have to look a certain way to be goth. I fucking love the music, I've been to concerts and shit, and I'm at the point where I'm comfortable with myself to not be insecure about it anymore. I can't wear a shit ton of make up because I'm allergic to most makeup. fish net gives me rashes. I just stick to my black cottons and velvets and leggings. My point is I made it into my own. I stopped trying to follow others. I even wear purple now that I stopped giving a shit about my "goth rep". I'm glad I found you man. Subscribed

[@Angel_Miette]

As a baby bat in the 90's I lived in the middle of nowhere. My only saving grace for learning about the goth culture was the internet. (I was extremely lucky to have the internet, but dial up was awful.) Our world is so vast, yet so small at the same time. The only way some of today's baby bats can learn about anything goth is to go online because the tangible scene is gone in the smaller cities. I know it can be so impersonal to be online "talking" to people, but if it's all you have then it's better than nothing. As for the consumerism... well it's just rampant in our society anyways and overall is a bigger problem than just in the Goth culture. On the plus side anyone who lacks crafting talent has more choices. I think as people put out more videos on thrift store hauls there will be a shift back to creating an individual style. Personally I think all the makeup and hair tutorials are really nice because that is a skill I was never taught by anyone. I have sensitive skin and gave up years ago trying to make it work, but now I'm considering trying it again because I have more knowledge than before. PS I think you should make more KZbin videos. :-)

[@etheridescence]

You basically just described my life, and I enjoyed reading your story. I remember purchasing things on Goodgoth and we really didn't have the tutorials we do now, so you had to be creative. To purchase new music, you had to rely on word of mouth, special order from Sam Goody, then hope the CD would be good. The good parts about being in a small town, however: time out in nature was very conducive to writing music or poetry, deep thinking, reading, photography, and joy riding at night cranking your favorite jams. There was no shortage of beautiful graveyards, cute bats to watch, and woods to wander around in. I kinda lucked out, and went to this weird private school for high school that accepted the public school rejects, so we had a very small but good sized percentage of people that shared a somewhat common bond, so we stuck like glue. I wasn't able to hit the club scene until moving away to college, and was there when the closest clubs to us closed.

[@cathrinewendt178]

When I discovered there was a goth scene and places they congregate I was soo happy. I always considered myself different and the goth scene appealed to me more than anything. I grew up with so many influences from music and entertainment plus I was just a weird kid into spooky stuff. I did exactly as you said. I read books, looked to hang out with others, go to shows, events, clubs and it was before I even had much goth clothes. I wore black and did what I could afford as I lived in a small town. To get where I am today living in Leipzig Germany from growing up in small town Michigan and having the passion, dedication and love for the scene I have took over 15 yrs. I continue to learn and support the scene locally and on an international scale. I still keep in touch with those I have my roots with in the Detroit scene. I still have friends in the LA scene I spent a couple brief years. I had a short embarrassing cybergoth scene while in Detroit because we did have a pretty heavy EBM and industrial scene there. It was my early days and that was what was the big thing. I grew from that and now I identify more trad goth though I wear a variety of styles of clothing and hair and it basically comes down to the events, concerts, clubs and festivals. I dress for occasion now and my everyday go to is more of trad goth. I started a youtube but I have kind of shut it down because I felt it was a bad start. I started with haul videos and crap and I would actually prefer if I do a channel making things more thought provoking, and less focused on materialism but the different facets of the lifestyle. One reason I moved overseas which was 5 yrs ago was because I love the music and was frustrated with how even living in a big city you could not see many bands live and so many German/European bands rarely or never toured in the USA given the expensive and difficulty. The festivals provided a great way to meet many others and form new friendships as well. As for elitism, the elitism I really dislike is a kind of subtle form of it. Not so much in your face people who act gothier than thou but the ones who claim they are tolerant, not elitist and act nice but still cliquey, exclusive and somewhat shallow. I notice individuals and groups who rarely let new blood in or give some people a fair chance. Theres individuals with such standards in their lifestyles and fashion that see a person like me a struggling awkward, artist, overweight and with some anxiety whos not really model material or can afford as much or be at every event and well they tend to have this you cant sit with us attitude. Theres definitely a bit of cattiness, and people talking shit on each other. I do not want anything to do with that crap. I personally just want to enjoy the music, art and intellectual aspects of the scene, make friends to share good conversation with and go to events together. Though finding quality friends is hard. Plus my interactions with some high profile individuals in the scene has left a bad taste in my mouth. I never am one to put people on a pedestal anyways because we all have our flaws, insecurities and make mistakes but it is still pretty sad when people claim they are kind, genuine, tolerant and accepting yet either involved in petty drama, gossiping, cattiness and the kind of elitism where their only friends are other "popular goths". I decided if I go back to youtube I will do what I am passionate about and not be bothered by how many subscribers I get. I don't want fame or popularity. I just enjoy sharing things and expressing myself. Until then I have more pressing priorities to deal with in life anyways. I will just be lurking around and doing my painting and being myself. :p

[@CemeteryConfessions]

Thanks for your comment and story. I am totally jealous of your move to Germany, I've never even been but it's basically my life's goal. haha. To speak to your elitism comment, I'm of two minds. Firstly, it's never ok for someone in the scene to be arrogant or rude to someone, unless it's deserved, and while I understand that the tendency for cliques to form based on appearance or social status is a result of social/cultural conditioning, I don't think it's ok to be a jerk, and I think we all have a responsibility to examine and recognize what bias' we have, because we all have bias' and a lot of times we don't even realize they are there. This happens just as often to people who claim to be inclusive, because that's just how the brain works and it's difficult to admit to ourselves that we have cognitive bias, and even harder to decolonize. Personally I have a heart for the awkward, quiet, "overweight", and so on, because that was really the story of my life. I recognize I'm a fairly thin, generally attractive white guy, so I have it easy, but as a kid I was totally just a nerd that other kids picked on, so I really love spending time with the underrated as it were, because those are my people, and they have as much if not more to offer than the attractive folks that get all the attention. On the other hand however, I do think it's OK for people to build their own social group within goth. Now for me, I do my damndest to try and meet and spend time with new people, however I can understand that we simply don't have bandwidth to make time for everyone, and it can make sense to settle into a routine or group of people that you know already have similar interests and that you get along with. I don't think that in itself is implicitly wrong or clique or elitist, we all have lives and have to make decisions about how we spend the limited amounts of free time we have. I know this is frustrating from the outside, as someone who was new to my local scene and even now, it can really eat me up seeing groups of people who only ever socialize together having a high bar to entry into their circle. I do understand though that we have a big scene here and it's just not possible to really invest into everyone, building a community of people you can have meaningful interactions with takes a ton of time and energy, and once you've built a small group it's easy to settle into that routine where you are comfortable, rather than making the effort to build that trust and friendship over and over again. So for me, I either have to make peace with that fact, or make the prolonged effort to ingratiate myself with new people. Again though, when you start having groups of people who are pissing on others, creating drama, acting aloof or above other groups, etc. I don't condone that kind of behavior. I am with you on the attitude for youtube, even if you want to only make haul videos, do what you are passionate about, and don't worry about how many people like or view your stuff. It's especially difficult now that there is such over saturation and leaders in the niche, to break into that top tier. I do my business planning with the podcast, but for youtube I really just want to express my ideas and have a conversation, rather than trying to make some money or get a ton of views.

[@TheFairyGothmother]

hehe yeah I totally get everything your saying. Oh yeah hey this is my creator account incase your confused. You definitely have a level head and seem like someone that can have good conversation with. As for living in Germany. I still pinch myself sometimes because believe you me even visiting here years ago seemed like something not at all possible for a individual like myself. I sometimes wonder if I will wake up form some dream lol. It was a huge risk moving here with my circumstances. I do hope you get the opportunity to travel here and experience things like Wave Gotik Treffen. I am pretty happy my husband likes it and we decided almost 3 yrs ago to live in Leipzig which has been for the most part a great place. I enjoy your podcast and youtube channel. Keep up the great work.

[@user-kk2pc7ik7t]

I dont read many books, but Im trying to join a book - club. I hope this can be encouraging.

[@user-kk2pc7ik7t]

I go by the motto 'Question not only what you know, but also what you dont know'

[@viciouslady1340]

Your integrity and commitment to the goth scene is admirable your content is solid without the need for gimmicky click bait crap yet the commercial goth channels get more views ,it boggles the mind.You are here for the long haul and I'm here to listen .

[@nevermore3928]

Glad you put this out there. Brought up some excellent points I had not thought about. Your thoughts on these topics are very well articulated and your perspective is appreciated. I get a little mad at myself in my adulthood for being more materialistic and remember the struggle when I was young of not having money to be materialistic so it was 100% DIY. Is my increased materialism in my adulthood a good example to set for the young goths just getting into the scene? Probably not, but I knew when I was young I couldn't afford latex catsuits working at the mall, it certainty didn't make me feel like less of a goth especially because I've always felt if you were into the music, and enjoyed the music, you were more accepted into the subculture no matter how well or poorly dressed you were. I feel this still stands true in the real world outside of being online. I do know some of the new people into the subculture never partake in any events or in their local scene at all so I can't really speak from that point of view.

[@SakuraUploads]

Just wanted to let it be known that you have at least one subscriber and listener who isn't goth (me) but who is absolutely fascinated by it and you. I enjoy many aspects of goth culture (namely music, movies, and I appreciate the aesthetic) but wouldn't consider myself goth, and I'm hooked on Cemetery Confessions. I really enjoyed this video, thank you for putting as much research and effort into what you do and for keeping me entertained!

[@user-kk2pc7ik7t]

Same. I havent researched it, but listening to Cemetery confessions is always educational.

[@jurassicgoth1719]

Although I agree with a lot of what you're saying, I think at some level we forget that 'goth' was just about listening to and loving music, going out, generally wearing black and a shared love of a dark aesthetic (whatever that meant to each of us)...and we didn't even KNOW we were 'goths' when it started and definitely weren't interesting in making it an academic study or body of knowledge that we felt we had to learn before we could participate...we were teenagers, it was visual, creative, exciting and our diy nature was often due to necessity. I was a kid with enough money to buy a ticket for a Bauhaus gig, get there and buy a drink or buy a black velvet dress from the coolest goth shop in Manchester/Camden where they sold them so my choices were based on going out and being where things were happening and economics...and yes, it has a history and a more complex, deeper, culture and we learn and explore things from our adult perspective and experience but as young people we wanted to find our own way. They're a new generation and need to define or redefine it in their own way even if we don't like it or disagree. It evolves and survives and that, on the whole, is a good thing in my opinion.

[@CemeteryConfessions]

Yes, excellent point! I think the notion that many of the arguments stem from generational gaps is an interesting one, though I think may only be a part of the picture. It's also fascinating to think on the evolution you are talking about, I think most salient from the early 80's to the late 80's. In fact it's not uncommon for those who were around in the early 80's to say that after the 90's came along, goth was dead because it had become something completely alien to that early scene.

[@jurassicgoth1719]

I think I may have been guilty in the past of feeling like 'Goth' was my youth and my sub-culture and all these young people keep coming along and diluting it with their dance music and glow sticks and their failure to grasp how wonderful some of my favourite bands are etc but in reality I can't think of anything worse that being perpetually stuck with the playlist of my teens where nothing moves on or nobody injects new life into a flagging local scene (no matter how much I love dancing to Bauhaus, the Sisters, The Specimen and the rest). I remember when we relied on word of mouth at gigs, clubs and the NME and Melody Maker for our information and did lots of stumbling about trying to find this new and exciting stuff that would become an integral part of our life and who we are. Although the internet has lots of information there's so much of it that young people instead of looking for the 'underground' or the 'obscure' like we did and creating a new sub-culture of our own they are trying to find a place in a tribe with a lot of history and usually google searching the 'most popular'... and often that is consumer driven or easy access through visually pleasing personas that are focused on the fashion side of the sub-culture. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that, we all find our way into things through something but those who stay in the sub-culture because it's part of their identity not just part of a fashion trend or an exploration to 'try it on and see if it fits' to work out who they are will eventually look for more substance. I was dancing with three young men (who were younger than my youngest child) at a goth night in Manchester a couple of months ago and we were talking enthusiastically about old and new bands. Will they be goths in another 30+ years and be dancing with a new generation of goths in the future? Who knows but they're here now, dancing and looking fabulous, and in my opinion are a welcome addition :-)

[@miriamreinhardt8939]

I've always thought of Goth culture as more ascetic in nature than aesthetic, considering the glorification of death and the acknowledgement of negativity in an overly saccharine mainstream culture that constantly promotes consumerism and materialism. I also find asceticism to be a great coping mechanism to the appropriation of Goth culture by the mainstream and incorporate it to my own interpretation of Goth, because the rhetoric is extremely important, and it astounds me how people actually believe that an outfit is an identity. Goth music also incorporates a lot of its own philosophy, as I have always appreciated Alien Sex Fiend for its rhetorical value. (e.g, Dead And Buried, Ignore The Machine) It's frustrating wanting to be Goth at a young age just to be bullied for it then have it commoditized and stripped of its rhetorical value. I think you are right about Goth being dialectical because I interpret Goth as acknowledging the negative aspects of life that the mainstream media covers up with overly saccharine lies, glorifying death as a form of asceticism in contrast to materialism as a response of a superficial culture that places great value on outward appearance, and simply perceiving every living individual as an equal because we are being corrupted and exploited under that mockingly saccharine facade of the mainstream media and its toxic messages. But this is just my personal interpretation of things.

[@Ezbotful]

When you talk about youtubers posting hauls over and over, I completely agree with what you said. I would add that the consumerism has had a benefit to the rest of us in that it has brought certain products and styles more towards the mainstream, making it easier for the rest of us to get hold of the things we want and creating revenue streams for the creatives in our community. Yes, it's vapid and superficial, but it has had some good impact on our culture.

[@CarolineCarnivorous]

As a leader in the Gothic community on the Amino app, I see kids who just have no idea every day. They usually think it's about looks, often they think metalcore is goth music, etc etc. "How can I be goth" is a question I see ALL the time, and I find myself listing the basic stuff over and over again. It gets kind of tiring sometimes, but hopefully it can help out potential goths! I don't understand why they do no research at all, if they are so interested in it. Often they get incredibly offended when I tell them 21 Pilots or whatever isn't goth. They really think you aren't allowed to like ANYTHING outside the box! Also a common thing is that they think that they have to pick a goth clothing style and stick to it. And don't get me started on the "You have to own a wardrobe full of Killstar (ugly stuff btw) to be goth"...

[@Vi0l33t]

That's kind of how it is when you're young. Your thinking gets very rigid while you try and figure things out. They'll get it, just keep trying to be a good influence.

[@missmurder9606]

Carnivorous Make-Up kids today are used to having everything handed to them with no effort, its amazing you take time for babybats to get to know Gothic subculture

[@CemeteryConfessions]

Thank you for the data! There is something to be said here (to elaborate on what @Viol33t said) for black and white thinking when you are talking about younger kids, 16-18, or really even anyone under 25. The part of your brain that is really responsible for critical, nuanced thinking, doesn't fully develop until you are 25. So when you are talking about people that are still in high school, or even younger, they are often essentially the same in their thinking as someone who is a religious fundamentalist. Very black and white, very rigid, and very staunchly categorical. That's not necessarily the fault of the content creators, though they can play into that. My argument for more nuanced, holistic perspectives on goth, applies more towards the slightly older crowd, however I still think the mark of someone who will end up sticking with goth, is someone who is hungry to learn and discover more. Even if they are black and white in their thinking, my litmus test is someone who is asking questions, updating their knowledge, and actively looking to learn more.

[@KaiDecadence]

The sad thing about it is that it's really not that hard to learn about the subculture today. There are many sites that are here to help people get started. I mean, that's how I started learning more about the subculture years ago.

[@CemeteryConfessions]

I really enjoy stouts, sours, and IPA's but I can appreciate more subtle styles as well. Chicago is a great place to get a variety of quality microbrews.

[@freeandunexplained3011]

I definitely agree with your sentiment about the younger generation who are serious about it will look beyond Gothic Channels that only discuss fashion. I mean, that's what happened to me and led me to me stumble across The Belfry Network and more. I mean, Goth has always had an element of aesthetics that helped to distinguish them from other groups. There's always been music videos and fashion oriented magazines and movies that drew in people from the past. The internet has only amplified that. There have always been people who are in it for just the fashion, and I dont think that number has changed, but the internet has just made us more aware of them. Like you said, if they are just in it for the fashion, they will fizzle out, but the problem is that they still end up shaping the online subculture and the public perception of our subculture regardless if they were actually an accurate representation of us.

[@miriamreinhardt8939]

I'm currently 19 years old, but I wanted to be Goth since I was 11 or 12 years old mostly because of my hatred of the mainstream media and gender roles, but also because of a matter of preference. What pisses me off is what I got bullied for ends up being appropriated and reduced to an aesthetic which contradicts the rhetoric of the counterculture. While Goth is apolitical, it still has punk roots that must be acknowledged and respected.

[@ZombieLove]

Hey thanks for talking about this and going into detail. Recently I watched a video of someone basically trying to explain who is and isn’t goth. She basically said it’s only about music and if someone doesn’t indulge in certain music they’re not goth. She asked for comments and I commented that I kindly disagreed with that and explained it’s deeper than music. I was met with basically “I didn’t invite you to give your opinion”. Um which Honestly shocked me. And put me off, I stopped watching goth KZbinrs for a while. so I went to see what others are saying about KZbinr goth culture. That’s when I found your video and really thanks for going into detail.

[@TheSecondAdam]

The public accesses goth thru the darkness, dark style music genres, the gothic and The Crow look. Only with more research would they find the actual goth genres of music.

[@MrBiggles53]

Ha. You said materialism was a “Hot Topic”. Sorry, just having a South Park flash back. Good talk, seriously.

[@KaiDecadence]

My opinion on this matter is that I can see from both sides but I'm going to say this and I know it's going to be unpopular but it's how I feel. I think that the reason why some people in the subculture are getting a little unsettled is because KZbin is a big part in young people's lives and if they're trying to get into the Goth subculture and they stumble upon a channel that spouts nothing but hauils, makeup videos, "Try-Ons", and OOTD/Lookbooks, they may not want to look any further on Goth things because why bother? I'm going to parrot what @Carnivorous Make-Up said with how some kids new to the subculture can be because I've seen it way too much as well. These kids will throw the elitist card at someone who points out Nightwish or Motionless in White or any other Symphonic, Black, Death, or Metalcore band isn't a Goth band. And when you show them what actual Goth music is, they're in disbelief and completely turned off from it and will stay firm that their favorite darkly inclined metalcore band is a Goth band and that's that. It can be annoying hen you're genuinely trying to be helpful when it comes to the music. On Goth KZbinrs, I don't think they have to talk about Goth subjects 24/7, no one does that (or at least not the majority) but it wouldn't hurt to share a bit about the subculture every now and then like maybe sharing your few favorite Goth bands, songs or shedding some history in short but sweet detail. Of course I'm being bias though as I just cannot watch makeup video after makeup video or the same Killstar Haul video over and over again and fair enough, that's my own problem and I don't watch them (the only exceptions are BlackFriday's or OfherbsandAltars transformation videos because those are freaking cool lol). I guess it's just... If that's the only content someone makes, wouldn't that get a little... Stale? That's all I have to say there. At the end of the day, I just watch what I like so this isn't much of a huge thing that I think about all that much.

[@besmb-yo8qs]

I fully agree. I have the same experience when talking about how people understand the term 'bullying'. People take it as an attack, but in reality its to help people out, and point out exactly how severe bullying is by pointing out what it means.

[@LasEnchiladas]

I can appreciate your opinion on the research aspect. I have deleted most of my rant videos because I felt that it was just a bunch of boring ranting and raving about people who have hurt me.....although I have a right to feel the way I do....I used my being goth as ammunition rather than as ways to enlighten those who perhaps have no clue about the subculture. I am starting from scratch for the umpteenth time....I always seem to miss the mark. I want to be careful what I portray as a representative from my end. Thank you for how careful you are in word choice and it has brought alot of important points to the forefront about how serious it is to misrepresent something either in an intentionally ignorant way or just because of frustration. Thank you.

[@SaraMonsterOfficial]

So happy you made this video - I hope you make more! While I love listening to the Cemetery Confessions podcast and you do such a stellar job with it, the KZbin community would definitely benefit from your continued presence. Also, I'm glad you brought up separating identity. I think most of the ugliness and arguing that goes on could be avoided if people understood this concept a bit better.

[@davidhumphreys1422]

I appreciate your views and ideas about being Goth. As someone still trying to get my head around being Goth, it is really cool that you know how to verbalize the concepts. Thanks for all your work.

[@VanityFading]

I'd be really interested in seeing a video on your book collection. I'm always looking for new ones to add

[@deedeeblackwater8354]

I'd love to take a look at the library. I've only read some books that are more general and music history based, and I'd be interested in reading stuff from a more sociological point of view. I've only been in the scene for three years now and I acknowledge the fact that I'm still a babybat who hasn't figured everything out yet. I am always hungry to learn more. So that being said, I really appreciated your point about how not all of the "young'ins" are basing their definition of Goth solely off of appearance focused youtubers. Although that was kind of where I started when I was first getting my feet wet, I was never saw that as the end-all-be. Ever since I've continue to expand my knowledge base further out.

[@graylad]

I realize that this is a 5-year-old video, but is extremely relevant today at this moment and you made some excellent observations. I tried to express that goth isn't just about fashion and isn't just about music but that it is a psychology, a psychology that is responsible for the fashion, and the music rather than the other way around as popularly described. The music and the fashion are merely the symptom if I may put it that way of something rather than the cause. You've nailed it here and in other videos of yours that I've seen, more recent videos. I have also commented these feelings on Angela's videos as well. Below is a comment that I made on one of "Random Goth Couple' videos on there channel. "I'm 58. I've been gothic since the late 70's. In my opinion, all these sub genres are so unnecessary. People always feel the need to look at everything under a microscope, dissect and over classify everything. We love our labels. Life was simpler in the beginning when all we did was die everything we owned black. Goth was all about the feel; how it all made you feel. It was definitely a reaction to how a lot of us felt after being let down by the punk rock movement. Everything you did, watched, listen to, and wore reflected how you felt about yourself, about Society and about life in general. It wasn't so much about making a fashion statement as it was about making a personal statement about yourself towards society. It was also a way of coping. You had a dark frame of mind, you like dark music, dark literature, spooky movies, and fashion. Everything that you liked was merely a reflection of who you were on the inside. To some extent it was a form of escapism and still is for me today. I miss those simpler times. FYI, love your Channel. Stay spooky!" I like your videos, Cemetery confessions, because they're intelligent and well thought out even when you attribute them to just being ramblings, they still reflect a thinking mind. I didn't Graduate University even though I was enrolled in a sociological program. But again you don't have to have a degree to understand human behavior. Love you Channel. Here's an edit after the fact: I have also wondered if there is a difference between being Goth and being Gothic. Is the goth subculture one single point Within being Gothic, can you define the Goth subculture through vivisection? Is it just one aspect of being Gothic? Curious to hear what you think.

[@peterkarargiris4110]

I'm so glad to have discovered your channel. Great discussion topics.

[@dafnikem]

Hey are you from Greece?

[@MissLizzy882]

I would LOVE to have a read through some of the PDF library you mentioned. I'm just really starting to properly research the subculture as a thing - actually giving it real thought as opposed to just "being" - and it's so interesting. If you would be able to share some of it somewhere I'd love to have a read through.

[@CemeteryConfessions]

I don't see a way to message you through KZbin, I'll send one via your facebook, just check the "other messages" box.

[@MissLizzy882]

Cemetery Confessions thanks so much! I'm not going to lie - I have no idea how KZbin works with regards to messages! that's so kind of you to send links! :)

[@VaruniaKhan]

Awesome video!! Hit the nail on the head with pretty much everything here. I especially agree with the last point about people taking criticisms, corrections or debates not meant in malice as a personal attack leading to them calling anybody who calls them out on maybe getting something slightly wrong or even just having a different opinion regardless of whether or not it's accurate an elitist. The word in my personal opinion is thrown around way too much by people who most likely mean "I don't like this person & neither should you". You've called me out on being misinformed before, I was like "oh ok I didn't know that, still dig this image though" & left it at that. Something a lot of people seem to be unable to do, resorting to really unnecessary over the top defensiveness. Anyway, probably not going to address every point because I've just woken up & haven't finished my coffee but rad video!!

[@the_eerie_faerie_tales]

New sub here! Thanks for the video. Found out about your podcast while listening to The Requiem podcast, which I found out about from DJ/Amy Nekrotique. She's one of my favorite YTers, along with The Gothic Alice and Angela Benedict. They all have style *and* more importantly, substance! I've been a part of this subculture since I was 18 in '98, and although I've always done my own reading and research, they help keep me inspired ... and they bring back a lot of nostalgia 🖤

[@CemeteryConfessions]

Leti Cia oh fantastic! I really hope you enjoy the show!!

[@cryptsandcatacombs3097]

Thank you for this Daniel. this really helped me out a lot. I actually deleted all of my videos because I let drama scare me away. there was something that happened between me and another person. I took it personal to my personal identity. I therefore wanted to give up. I should have had a intellectual conversation and communicated with this person before freaking out. I forgot of this type of nature in a positive light and a sense of fun! I feel that all this person was doing was passing a judgement therefore not trying to police the goth subculture. I understand that now. I'm very thankful angela Benedict messaged me and talked about this and that you have talked about this thank you so much. I will continue to make thought out goth talk videos. I'm not going to give up anymore. Your absolutely right. It's important to dissociate oneself from a personal identity stand point and have an intellectual conversation to get to the bottom of ones motive. nine times out of ten this method truly does work. I well use this advice and run with it. This conversation has reassured me and given me the confidence to fix this and better myself. I truly have passion for the goth scene and I truly want to keep learning on goth and encourage others. I can fix what I messed up and try again. I'm not a quiter . I am sorry that disappointed my viewers because I got allot of positive feedback by alot of elder Goths that I look up to and I'm so thankful for that. I'm not going to make up excuses anymore. when I took it personally it effected me in a very bad and unhealthy way. it effected my over all attitude on the subculture and my place there and social media. That's a big concern that I have for myself. I don't want to let these things bother me no more. I want to release content that I'm proud of. I want to consider people's arguments and opinion as valid as my own. I hate that I have used elitist in such a quick witted and incoherent way. Elitist behaviour to me has lot more to do then a strong opinion or opinions at all in that matter. Your right it should be something we believe in and that its well thought out and researched that's what I truly want for myself in general not just my you tube channel. I think the people who stay in goth are people who are passionate and that are interested in goth and are constantly educating themselves about there subculture and digging deeper to find a deeper and philosophical meaning why there in this marose subculture that we all call home. goth is a giant Addams family filled with love humor sarcasm intelligence and artistical expression, goth is powerful. Goth has a strong sense of belonging and a santacuary for all who dwell with in it. I'm not going to sit there and make excuses or put out half ass content. I'm a go big or go home person and I needed this. its a wake up call for me that has caused an awakening inside of me! thank you so much! this took allot of weight off my chest and has killed the negative outlook I used to have on goth.

[@BigBrotherGORE2]

As someone who grew up liking the darker sides of things and is now trying to dive in and learn and experience as much of the subculture as i can, I really enjoy these videos and the podcast. It's nice to know that me, an almost 30-year-old baby bat, still has a place in the scene, from what it sounds like. (also totally sucks that I'm finding these videos 3 years late)

[@dorym.tomaselli6739]

I've been watching your channel for a short while and I must say how well spoken and we'll researched your content is. Thank you for making this video discussion and bringing up some valid and important points about the culture. I really think that young goths that are getting into the culture should listen in and have a true understanding instead of being misled. I think you make a lot of sense of things and have a positive calm attitude about it. Thank you again for posting. 🕸️🦇👻

[@itscmalvarez]

Came across this video. I like the pacing of the video and your topics. Keep up the good work.

[@Jessinking]

i really like this. i'm not into podcasts as a medium myself but i'd appreciate more of this being shared on your youtube for sure. the visual helps me personally keep track of what's going on and quiet my anxiety brain to focus more vs. the time that's passing/how long something is taking. i do agree a big topic online right now is too much consumerism/fashion or not so that was a good point to bring up. i just know me personally am getting maxed out on that and the makeup tutorials...and when i type in goth and then fix the settings to everything uploaded last week or just in a day it takes a lot to weed through something that isn't a makeup tutorial or a buying video. the ones that aren't get pushed back 7 pages or even more. and to find some that aren't english or are billuingual goes even further back...so yes that isn't all that is here, but i notice when you search youtube like google pushes certain ones up more than others

[@zombelladonna]

I’m interested in the library of sociology PDFs, sounds intriguing

[@hollyrhea8457]

This is so satisfying. I appreciate the substance!

[@thuringwethilvaire6772]

I'm so happy to have found this channel

[@rickonnye2001]

Great video, some excellent points raised thank you 😊

[@Nambazi]

Thanks for mentioning the spindle wheel in the corner. Its helped alot

[@Senythril]

@cemetery confession you mentioned a PDF library with papers you've read if its possible i would like to get this link to further educate myself. Also can you recommend some books to read? Some goth books that could educate even further?

[@ThereAsContrast]

I would really love a link to your library!

[@lailajamilasmith]

Greetings :) Is there any chance you could link your pdf library of goth source material? The studies and articles sound so interesting. Thank you.

[@ethneclark7281]

Thank you for creating such interesting and intellectually stimulating content!

[@1015SaturdayNight]

Eldergoth (46), psych major, new subscriber - enjoyed it :) I look forward to scouring your channel

[@CemeteryConfessions]

Thank you! A high compliment.

[@sideshowtink]

Well spoken, great voice, good points. I'll need to check out your podcast.

[@besmb-yo8qs]

You can do both the aesthetics, the music, and so on. I agree 100%

[@user-kk2pc7ik7t]

You have some really educational videoes and I agree that people should do more research 🖤 And I personally think that people throw around elitist and poseur a bit too much. From my observation elitism is more of a problem in the metal scene than in the goth scene, and people arent poseurs for not liking certain bands. An elitist is someone thats part of an elite. An elitist will require you to listen to certain bands, and call you a poseur for not liking those bands. A poseur doesnt take the subculture or the music seriously and will only do what they do for attention. . I think much of it boils down to how people will educate newcomers into the scene and so on.

[@kittybackalley]

Very inspiring video! Thanks!

[@Vi0l33t]

Thanks for putting this out here. It's good to hear it addressed without anyone getting preachy.

[@RacheldeNugent]

All I have to say is thank you for making this video. So much of this stuff within the KZbin community has flown past debate and gone right into outright meanness, and it's been bumming me out. I think you have made so many good points. Just thank you for making this video.

[@KAVega-hh4lp]

Great Video! Do you think the actual generation is too much focused on consumerism? Goth subculture has a lot of "counterculture vibe", do you think there is a lack of critical sense / society critics to the new generation? Materialism walks hand by hand with consumerism. Also, can you send me the link to your pdf library?

[@CemeteryConfessions]

I think goth had more of a countercultural edge to it in the early 80's, but interpolated elements of western consumerism into the culture. (though there was some of that from the beginning) I don't think it's become a culture of avarice and materialism, however the rise of online shops like dolls kill and killstar have somewhat put out smaller goth shops and producers of finely crafted products who don't have the cheap option to mass produce. I'd be happy to send the folder, just send me a message!

[@KAVega-hh4lp]

Very well noticed about the big online shops... I hadn´t think about that! I had send you a message ;)

[@eternalwynter2254]

Loved this video so much!! :D

[@KEC87]

Sharing on my app group. 💙 Great points. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Id love the link to your pdf. too.

[@razvandobos9759]

Freyja Nicleoid (Its Black Friday) is very genuine in her Goth style, but she has such a large channel and a lot of non Goth people have taken advantage of her video tactics. Hauls left and right, transitions, reactions to people hating her and trying to look Goth but fail. I love her a lot and would love to meet her, but I'm getting a little concerned with the "stuff" rather than the vlogs and gigs.

[@cacaubmad]

i wish i could comment my thoughts, but I recently broke my shooulder and it fucks up my typing speed, so hopefully I'll come back to it cause there are many points I wanna discuss and it is a fun topic to talk about! For now: great video, sold me on the podcast!

[@Womanincorset]

Can`t agree more! Thank you for this video!

[@gingeraiyle]

Hey, so .. I know this video is way old by now but I was wondering if that pdf library of papers you had still exists and if maybe you'd be willing to share it in a google drive or dropbox or something online? I've been starting to do some personal research into the goth subculture just for myself and it would be awesome to have some of that that's been curated by someone who already has a pretty good grasp of things.

[@CemeteryConfessions]

Unfortunately I don't share this out anymore because I realized i don't really have the legal rights to be share those papers since some of them are published to journals. Sorry!

[@gingeraiyle]

@@CemeteryConfessions Ahh okay that's fair enough, no worries. Thanks anyway 😊

[@GothToRide]

So happy to find a new podcast to follow :-D Almost only listen to youtube while doing other things so podcasts are better in that way :-)

[@helenstirling-knight3878]

You may not feel like this video is up to par compared to your podcasts, but you have a lot of wonderful information in here and hit on some solid points about the perception and ideology behind goth. I'm more of the research type myself and would be really interested in your pdf list and books to read to understand the origins and original intention of goth as a culture. Thank you for your work.

[@michaelgrace8200]

I like the conversations that you have on your channel about GOTHIC things dude awesome ✊🤘🖤💜😁😊

[@razvandobos9759]

What is your output on Its Black Friday?

[@thekillingjar1313]

I'd be interested in reading the research on goth as a subculture. Where could I start looking for these?

[@gemsh4969]

Hey I really enjoyed your video. I have always liked the goth subculture and recently decided that although I live in a small village I decided to embrace it . I have been watching Angelina and skullgurdle who talks more in-depth knowledge of the gothic subculture . I am hoping to check out your podcasts and look into some reading . Sorry I am now rambling anyway thanks for your help.

[@donnadurrant6828]

Great video, some really valid points there. Is it possible for you to send your PDF link at to me at all please? Many thanks!

[@kamillazaynieva770]

What do you think about the book by Jillian Venters "Gothic Charm School: An Essential Guide for Goths and Those Who Love Them" and "What is Goth?" book by Aurelio Voltaire?

[@aspartamef2x214]

Can I ask you to send me those liks about academics paper that you are talking about? I am really interested in this topic and I really really appreciate your videos and your podcast where you talk about actual gothic subculture in the modern society

[@CemeteryConfessions]

Sure thing, send me a message on here or an email and I'll link you

[@Psychedelicacy_Thefairydragon]

i agree with everything youve said but one thing. The part about not trying to go out in the real world and get into the local goth scene. In some cases like mine there isnt really one in my city, so thats why i go online to meet other people that are into the goth culture. But really good video otherise

[@nessness1930]

I love the point you make and I wish I could double like this video for the beer sip x3 ❤❤

[@MoriDarkmoss]

I respect Angela and like her videos. I think she has a fair perspective of the goth scene and its evolution, at least in the U.S. and with modern technology etc. I am also of the opinion that goth is more than just black clothes and makeup and I'm working on creating more videos that actually reflect that. All in due time...

[@necromancy6142]

I love these kinds of videos as there are a lot of people who do enjoy this kind of conversation. It's much easier to criticise than it is to create. If you keep creating positive content then there's nothing to argue. Keep arguing and that's all the content ends up being about. In regard to materialism, people will continue to shop for clothes and for me, having a website that sells brands and offers a niche range of products (or an online hobby to be completely honest!) does not isolate me from having an opinion - apparently it does. It was about providing items that are much cheaper because I too, want to give back as much as I am making items available locally. I also like to offer a space that is open to discussion with other projects like interviews on Necromancy Radio (as you know!) because I am passionate about the music and art forms surrounding the subculture. However, owning a black eyeliner and some powder is about as far as I personally go with makeup, I wear black basics from Kmart most of the time despite having clothes on racks because I love fashion as an art form - and as a designer myself it is a passion. In regard to online channels and social media as a whole, I do argue that there is an over saturation with mostly hauls and product reviews - granted, companies need to advertise and share as a form of communication - print is not as widely read anymore, digital is now a fact. There are now laws in place within Australia recently which require transparency and this will change the way promoters and corporations online will be able to operate. However, when social media becomes one big stream of 'commercials' - that's when we start questioning the subculture and forget about the conversations we could be having instead or 'leading my example' to make and do things that are positive... rather than 'another' product post, giving back instead of taking... or what have you. If you can separate your opinion from the subject matter, you can discuss it without creating online mass bullying, or using foul language which is just plain crude. The internet is a small part of life. It's not how we exist in the world every day. If it is, perhaps a person might need to curb their participation in order to form informed commentary, rather than just stoning people for having an opinion or maybe not liking the same things as you. There are things I don't like. Channels I don't like - I make no secret of that. If people disagree, so be it. Just as you have made this video to share an informed discussion. Some people might find it boring or taking the fun out of being 'spooky'. I don't think it's a reason to hunt them down and destroy them as a person. Great video Daniel. I love The Belfry Network and I will be supporting you on Patreon as I'd love to contribute to your time it does take to source the materials you have spent time and effort in gathering... well worth the money in terms of investing in knowledge regarding the anthropological side of subculture. Here's to moving forward and restoring some faith in what it's all about.

[@MrFusselig]

Your channel is so appealing to me... it is so beautiful

[@christie_exist]

This is really interesting!

[@esoteric_teachings]

Hi. I'm interested in the Goth subculture sociological papers you speak of, can you help me access them please? Thank you, I really enjoy your videos!

[@viciouspanda2198]

awesome video mate :D

[@norseczar27]

I’m a goth rivrthead with dieselpunk steampunk and grunge thrown in

[@Brujonejo]

Well , what I think happens to KZbinrs like ItsBlackFriday and ToxicTears is that they're just beauty youtubers and vloggers , just like every influencer and ""normie"" girl youtuber, and that's their whole intention , they were never willing to talk about the nature of goth or goth history or a sociological study about the subculture, they're just vloggers who happen to be goth or have a gothic aesthetic , and that's the thing that makes them interesting or fun to watch... I don't think every goth person who does youtube has to talk in depth about goth, it shows that goth people is just people with alternative interests ..that's just how I see it, I usually don't try to make people responsible about whatever people think about them ? Like if I'm a lolita and I make a channel about food that shouldn't imply that all lolitas are cooks..

[@GreatSmithanon]

I really don't see anything wrong with wanting physical things as a method of visually defining oneself, but in terms of subcultures based around music it seems vital to include the element the whole thing is based around, and if people aren't willing to do that I see nothing wrong with telling them to fuck off and stop using the label for themselves.

[@Thebkackfever]

Tienes toda la razón, mucho tiempo pensé para mi misma en lo que la cultura gótica estaba aportando para las nuevas generaciones , sobre todo en el caso de los KZbinrs lo que veía me parecía bastante vació , luciendo la cartera de la marca de moda , etc etc maquillaje y haciéndonos lucir a los mas viejos como un grupo que solo le interesaba divertirse y estar lo mejor vestidos posible. Pero tocaste un punto muy importante cuando dices que los jóvenes son mas inteligentes de lo que parecen ya que ellos si se sienten interesados se acercaran a su escena local y harán sus propias investigaciones tal y como lo hicimos nosotros. Por lo demás como somos tan heterogeneos siempre habrá alguna forma de diferenciarse del resto y gustos personales .Por lo general sucede que la gente que entra a los movimientos contraculturales tan solo por una estética ,se van desencantando bien rápido por que es solo una moda para ellos. Al final quedamos tan pocos en el mundo y cada pais tiene sus celulas. Muchas gracias por tu reflexion la encontre genial.

[@ripoutyourprejudice]

Hey look! A sensible and rational man I can identify with mentally. I must be subscribing or something.

[@AmberMcAvey]

I am also interested in the academic papers on goth u have, if u would be ever so kind as to share them w us.

[@molliegirl3085]

Goth is being mainstreamed to the point of being Disneyfied. While I want Goth to be recognized, I really don't want it to be THAT accessible. There NEEDS to be a line drawn. . . somewhere. No? You make wonderful points.

[@TheSecondAdam]

Mainstreaming means less pitchforks and torches. More freedom and rights to be you.

[@Firebird894]

I have a deathhawk because I like it and one day I might change it again who knows! I like death hawks and patched jackets and trench coats and tight leather pants it's not practical for me to dress up every day because I live on a rural property and have certain chores that would not work with that but I just look the way I like at the time it is always a black canvas with some thought put into it unless I am raking a horse paddock. There is no scene where I live or within hours of me nothing me and my partner are the scene lol. So I do enjoy youtube to hear and see other goths and talk and it is great now because when I grew up we had none of this in Australia not a lot outside certain city areas nothing in the suburbs or rural at all you risked a beating going out, we had to chance hear something on the radio and tape it there were no music shops or radio stations for goths it was tough. I found most goth music in the clubs and met people who gave me tapes and cd's but even then it wasn't till youtube and the internet beyond dial up which I started with I discovered so much more. Even the clubs back then didn't play all goth music like is being discussed so much now at least where I lived goth club included some goth rock, some death rock some darwave but a lot of industrial, metal and general 80's rock, grunge it was all done at the time thats what we had that was the scene here there was nothing just purely 'goth' like is talked about now. Other countries seemed to have that and a more strict or more defined sub culture than we had.

[@swagsukeuchiha7599]

Most of the "goths" ive interested were only into the mystic of goth. They were never interested in the lore/history.

[@CweenOfTheMark]

I'd be really interested in reading the sociology papers, if that's not too much trouble.

[@nappykemps2590]

The thing is people see or hear something they like and latch on to it. If it's the look, it's the look. It's like being vegan. That once was a lifestyle now it's just a diet You know what I mean? But back in the day people really had to find the community and support the community and show up not just dress up. Now everything is right there for all to scavenge and no one's really nibbling.

[@tiatorus]

is this the count?? i was wonderin what happened

[@user-kk2pc7ik7t]

Everyone, not just goths, should buy less, cause its, climate friendly. Unboxing videoes isnt just a goth problem, its a problem all over KZbin. Some people have taken the time to rent clothes instead of buying them, and theres a lot that people do with their clothes. Fast fashion isnt good for the climate as a whole. Researching the whole aspect of fast fashion, Ive been thinking more and more about thrifting and renting. Clothes tend to be an important element of climate change. Id rather buy a bit more expensive with sustainable clothes every once in a while, if I can afford it. If not, people can also rent them. People have to decide for themselves, but thats Where I land personally

[@cosmicfaeriedust4009]

I'm not involved in the scene mainly because the very few goth clubs around me no longer let you in if you're under 21.

[@kaleidojess]

444 subscribers and it's 1:11 pm

[@kaleidojess]

Lol, hi, from random weird chick

[@TaraVanflower]

One of the reasons I've never wanted to be labelled, either musically or personally, is because the moment you say "I am X" you're giving people a standard in which to judge you by and hold you to. I'm of the mindset that I want people to be who they are and just not be dicks about it. HAHAHA I can't stand condescending attitudes, elitism etc regardless of the topic.

[@CemeteryConfessions]

I feel you. I think most of us have been guilty of condescension at some time or another, but yes I certainly don't stand for pretentious asshatery. I totally get not wanting to be labeled, and I commend you on that, I think more people need to have that attitude. For me, ever since I discovered the goth culture, everything it's represented and embraced has resonated with me at the deepest level of my being and my identity. I have bats tattooed on my head, not just because I love bats, but because I am a goth, and for me that word is a perfect description and grouping for me and I wear it proudly. Of course, goth is not the whole of my being, and I don't think any one cultural grouping should ever be the entirety of ones identity; that leads to radicalism and is pernicious for the individual. I think this is the trap many people fall into, they feel by calling themselves a goth, that all other hobbies, interests, philosophies or other parts of themselves need to either fall away, or rectify themselves with goth. Thankfully neither of those are true!

[@TaraVanflower]

I'm not sure things are as bad as it was back when I was actively involved in going to clubs and stuff for the band, but back in the late 80s/90s there were two types of people. the open "everyone's welcome, come on in" and the "why are you here?" people. I'm of the, come on in, variety of people. I don't believe in needing to wear a uniform on the outside to express who you are on the inside. And by the same token, LOOK HOW YOU WANT. If that's your thing, then do it. I guess I just don't like putting up barriers and I feel like that's the same thing you're saying.

[@TaraVanflower]

Like on the one hand, some of the goths I knew would complain that they got shit for being "different".. and then they'd turn right around and do that to people they didn't think were goth enough. I just hate that shit.

[@CemeteryConfessions]

Ya no one has a right to be a dick to someone else. I love chatting about what is and isn't goth and what the culture means to me, how i view it academically and personally and so on, but that said, I'll sit and have a beer with anyone as long as they aren't a dick, I don't have a ten point list they must live up to to be goth enough for me, or a premade quiz I give out before being someones friend. Look how you want, most importantly be who you are! :)

[@gamerman7276]

Goth fashion should be less about looking good and more about looking immortal.

[@jaykong1128]

Andy Samburg?

[@zipdiaburg2175]

you have 666 subscribers, but I can change that...

[@hotrodmercury3941]

Tbh Not goth Just stumbled across this on my feed But fr I believe goth is well on its way to dying. Yknow the emo crap just fucking kills everything. Now it's infecting the metal community. Everyone wants to name metalcore as metal now. Crazy world, we just need more thrash metal Tuesdays. But you make a bunch of points on the situation I am seeing from the outside looking in. Subscribed!

[@erikajewel]

at first i read your channel name as “Geometry Confessions” and thought “odd flex but ok” but then i realized that I can’t read

[@octobergoddessprincess7358]

Oh you look so gorgeous and how are you 👋☠🤘💀

[@alyssasparrow7783]

Are you trying to say that in order to be goth you have to prove your goth by who you hang out with or what you know about other goths?

[@CemeteryConfessions]

No, definitely not!

[@alyssasparrow7783]

Ok, becues some ppl dont have other goth ppl that live around them. I live in a very small town so the only goth intake I can get is form the internet. Sorry for the missunderstanding

[@AradiaAshes]

I understand what you were trying to say but you really gave off a cocky vibe throughout the video. There are a lot of Goth KZbinrs who aren't well informed. But, there are a select few who actually know what they're talking about. You don't have to be a self proclaimed academic to have a deep understanding of Goth culture. Cemetery Confessions is a good podcast, but it isn't superior to all of the Goth KZbinrs.

[@CemeteryConfessions]

I appreciate the criticism and I do sincerely apologize if I came off as aloof, that was not my intention and absolutely not my opinion of myself. I don't hold Cemetery Confessions to some lofty uber goth status, nor myself. I do however, think there are youtubers out there who are simply lazy, and have little to no interest in doing the work needed to foster an informed and heterogeneous channel. I think if you are aiming to be a content creator, you should hold yourself to a higher standard; I feel I have a responsibility to the incredible culture I am a part of, to do more than just the bare minimum, and I respect those KZbinrs who act the same. It's not a matter of being smarter, superior, or even always being correct, it's a matter of cultural capitol, earning respect by putting in the effort, passion, and dedication.