GOTHAM HAD THE WORST JOKER

[@VI_V2]

THE GOTHAM JOKER TRILOGY Part 1: kzbin.info/www/bejne/gWWvhpaNpt9jgKc Part 2: kzbin.info/www/bejne/pomzfICMmL2Uf9k Part 3: kzbin.info/www/bejne/o4SuaZSoqNGkpNU

[@buddha1321]

hey quick note, your Part 2 and Part 3 links are timestamped, may want to fix that. Awesome vids regardless!

[@thetheoryman2820]

Hey Infuso if you could reply I won’t watch joker and Batman gay porn for 20 years

[@rolin8076]

You do know that the reason this joker was so different from the others is because Warner bros did not own the rights on the Joker himself at the time right?

[@WelcometoTheDollars]

Jerome had the personality of the original joker similar to Mark Hamill however fox made jerome come back as the new 52 version joker while Jeremiah he dressed up as our beloved joker from the Batman anime series however his personality was nothing like Mark Hamill, Jeremiah was the most boring ass version of the joker, I honestly think for the season final of Gotham instead of going all new 52 they should have brought Jerome back to life with the help of Hugo strange without cutting off his face, and make Jerome ware the classic joker purple suit that we all know and love.

[@jokesonyou5629]

But he does try to comic books in a lot of ways especially the part where he's staple his face back that was one of my favorite works in comic books

[@lydz7451]

I still think it's hilarious how Gotham got away with not having the Joker in the show while still blatantly having the Joker in the show 😁

[@Guitar-Dog]

I only watched to the start of season 2 when Gotham came out, all these videos are confusing me, Gotham had no joker but had 2? I remember the ginger joker in gotham

[@daa589]

At first I thought it was bad writing.. oh the joker is an idea and anyone can be him... But vees previous video taught me about the licensing issues and now I know they did the best they could

[@theholydonkey3527]

They basically said "fuck you" to Warner by bringing Jerome back to life and once again by adding Jeremiah to the story, who looks much more like the Joker. I think what the writers have done is just great and also funny xD

[@JoeChillton]

Ya they got balls and got away with it, bring more Joker fans to the mold of DC fans.

[@UIHub-zr2rw]

Sneak 100

[@frary_editx872]

cameron literally played two insane characters with different background stories... it was so hard to believe that jerome and jeremiah were portrayed by the same actor, so pls appreciate that

[@mileysister5032]

I think that he played THE BEST joker 😅

[@rit4237]

@@mileysister5032 honestly same 🙃

[@brandonhinrichs4393]

Ian Gallagher was also insane lol

[@kyrasl]

@@brandonhinrichs4393 he wasn’t insane. He has bipolar...

[@kxrn._7595]

absolute garbage and inaccurate

[@CRAutist]

Basically: Jerome was the better joker, Jeremiah was the better villain.

[@WhyTho525]

Personally I think Jeremiah being a better villain doesn’t sound right to me, but I'd rather say he's *meant* to be the more compelling character and more modern villain out of the two. He thinks that by tormenting Bruce he is actually helping Bruce and he deludes himself into thinking that this is actually love. He also believes that by destroying Gotham he is actually doing good, even says to Bruce that "progress requires sacrifice" in 4x20, which does sound a bit too similar to Thanos' qoute from Infinity War: "A small price to pay for salvation." Basically almost 90% of modern day movie or TV villains believe that what they're doing is right. I guess TV show or movie makers want to make sympathetic villains nowadays, which isn't a bad thing, but it's getting a bit overdone. But doing this with the Joker isn't a great idea on my opinion. The Joker is chaotic evil, he torments and terrorizes Gotham City just because it's fun to him. He is aware of his insanity and he's also aware of the fact that he is evil, he just doesn’t care as long as it entertains him. Much like how Jerome was, hell enjoyed the fact that he is going to remembered as curse upon Gotham, just like how his father foretold him to be. Now, there would be the counted-arguements that Joker actually believes what he is doing is right by tormenting Batman, but here's the truth he torments Batman and the Bat-family because it's a game to him, a game which he doesn't want to end.

[@jjkm17]

I think they did the twin to showcase both the jokers sides how he is crazy Zane to the point he knows and then how he’s smart enough to build complex plans

[@josephikrakouski346]

@@WhyTho525 When you say 'meant' i believe you only say it because Jeremiah got only a few episodes; whilst Jerome got, basically, the entire series, even after his death. If you are saying it because of that, i agree. I think Jeremiah just needs more time in the series to flush the character out. About the 'sympathetic villains being overdone.' I do not agree at all. Holly wood--for the past several decades--has practically only produced irredeemable villains. Every action movie has some 2D, lazily written bad guy, so all the focus can be on the good guy. And fair enough, people naturally gravitate toward the good guy anyway, its a way to save money and time, but making the villain somewhat redeemable, at least 'well-intentioned' blurs that line. It makes it more ingaging. When its done bad , its done bad, just like with irredeemable villains. Personally i saw Thanos as a shift in that dynamic, and an extremely well done example of how to do it. Keep in mind Thanos only came around 2 years ago... I'd say of the two, he was the better villain, maybe not the better joker. Basically i agree with OP, but i kind of like Jeremiah more, conceptually. When speaking in terms of 'villainy,' Jeremiah was definitely more on the spot. His delusional interpretations aside, the truth is he did much more than Jerome was ever capable of. That's because Jerome was the chaos archetype. His actions generally were always geared toward, self-serving, anarchy. While anarchy does hold much more potential for pure devastation; i believe calculated delusion to be much more likely to cause devastation, simple because it is calculated. Chaos is indifferent. Calculated delusion can and will seek out, even those which chaos will neglect. Take, for example, the devastation from basically any authoritarian of the 20th century, compared to any anarchist of the 20th century. The unchecked authoritarian is so unimaginably worst that the unchecked anarchist is left in his back yard, burning a bush to feel some freedom. I could be wrong, but it seemed like you were arguing villainy from the standpoint that the Joker is... a kind of ultimate evil. Which isn't necessarily untrue, though there is room for discussion. A villain isn't really defined by how evil they are, but how much they opposed the hero. You can have villain that is not evil, that does more devastation than one that is purely evil. That's kind of what i was summarizing in the previous paragraph.

[@WhyTho525]

@@josephikrakouski346 1. Yes, by 'meant' I referred to the fact that Jeremiah had less time to be shown than Jerome was 2. Yes by the villainy trope from the Joker's standpoint. Yes I kinda agree that Jeremiah did more damage than Jerome. But I don't think that Jeremiah's "I want to destroy Gotham to build a new one to get to my orphan rich boy crush, because I'm totally sane" attitude is fitting for the Joker. Yes, the Joker is obsessed with Batman, however he is only obsessed with him because Batman is a complete opposite of him, both philosophically and morally. Joker has a complete disregard for human life and believes that life is meaningless and under enough pressure anyone will unleash their inner madness and be a monster like him, while Batman is a man who 100% values human life and believes that anyone can be redeemed, hence his no kill rule. Jerome and Bruce's character dynamic was just like this in 3x14, however I understand that the writers wanted to have a closer relationship with Jeremiah's and Bruce's character dynamic. But Jeremiah doesn't really have a reason to eventually develop the Joker's nihillistic philosophy, and no. The insanity gas doesn’t matter, because it wouldn't make sense.

[@josephikrakouski346]

@@WhyTho525 I could be mistaken, because i have not watched Gotham for about a year, but wasn't Jeremiah's whole shtick the Joker shtick? He viewed himself/The Joker and Bruce/Batman as halves of the same whole, and tried to push him to his limits. I guess this is more a discussion, then, of interpretation. But as i said, its likely my memory has failed me, i haven't watched it in roughly a year. It was my impression, at least, that Jeremiah was doing the Joker, 'push everyone to their limit' trope. The Insanity Gas wouldn't make sense for Jeremiah becoming more crazed and nihilistic? How so. Isn't the prelude to that, what we saw in the last episode?

[@Dr.Gruesome666]

It's crazy how the joker put his life back together and became a jedi

[@shortmanoscar9571]

Yeah, and he was a gay sibling a while back before he became the Joker

[@KageNoTenshi]

The fact that Cameron could pull of both end of the spectrum, someone probably should find him a therapist

[@Veji69]

it’s easy to wear a mask and act if you have no real life personality, just saying lmao, but i feel like cameron isn’t a sociopath hahahaha

[@risottopose9970]

It’s something called acting, it’s kind of his job

[@darthx2445]

@@Veji69 kzbin.info/www/bejne/pqrFpomoeN-fbdE

[@gamingnoah9807]

And he played a jedi

[@conradlorgar5508]

@@Veji69 that's sounds like made up pseudo psychology

[@phatboy4321]

Theres one thing no one can argue though: Gotham had the best HARVEY BULLOCK

[@popoffpeppar]

AGREED Even through my rewatch of the show he still remained my favorite

[@migueltorres811]

Yes! The actor is so underrated

[@kidflash7324]

God yes

[@nifflerdraws992]

Yes he is one of my favorites

[@erock864]

So upset that they canceled ‘Terriers’

[@ChannelPup]

God I miss Gotham and Jerome. For me the biggest crime of Jermiah Valeska is 100% that he replaced Jerome. He was...fine. Just...definitely not on the level of Jerome and it's like...why would you replace a Steak with a Hot Dog, y'know?

[@VI_V2]

Hey man, love your channel. Been subbed for a while now. It was actually your videos on the Gotham’s Joker that made me want to make my own on that subject. If anyone here isn’t subbed to Channel Pup, go check him out... and as always let ‘em know who sent ya! :)

[@ChannelPup]

Vee Infuso no way! That’s crazy I’ve been a viewer of your comic-book-entertainment based stuff for ages now. Awesome to hear you’ve heard of me. I appreciate you.

[@VI_V2]

If you’re ever up for a collab, let me know. Would love to have ya on!

[@ChannelPup]

@@VI_V2 Oh dead set 100% I'd be game for that.

[@jushawll]

I wouldn’t say that Jerome in Gotham is the joker but the inspiration to the joker allowing for the feel of insanity to spread throughout people. This can be proven by how Bruce is still a child but I do agree that the interpretations of the joker can be seen as a onion

[@rickysheffer9219]

Imagine thinking Jared's Joker was better than Cameron's version

[@whitecreamymilk8436]

The only reason people think he did so well is he died so soon after the roll. So its skewed.

[@whitecreamymilk8436]

@@OffbeatPuppet fuck you right. Brain fart. To be fair i was at the heath ledger section of the video when i replied.

[@hailpickens2454]

@@whitecreamymilk8436 Yeah, qhatever you say man.

[@sindelscat9336]

I think everybody's joker is great in their own way.

[@RebootedGaming]

@@whitecreamymilk8436 lmao so you think Heath Ledger only got his Oscar and the praise because "he died soon after shooting"? Come on, man, that's just a bad take.

[@electrion6005]

finally, i always thought jerimayah looked more like joker but jerome acted more like joker

[@cmccorquodale2003]

Then the finale came and I think that was a good combo of them

[@Metalman-xf4ve]

I saw them as two sides of the same coin. There's always two jokers in every deck. Jerome is the wacky, insane, cooky side. Jeremiah was the cold, calculative and manipulating side.

[@probot6515]

@@Metalman-xf4ve Everyone says that, but I don't like that one bit. Joker should be the entire coin, not split up. To do that is to sacrifice the perfect Joker for two inferior Jokers.

[@ManOfX305]

Jeremiah was definitely a lot better in Season 5.

[@probot6515]

@Fluffynator I agree with that, actually. Would have kept that vague aspect of Joker's history.

[@xxturtlesoupxx2598]

Agree. Jerome was a sociopath, a manipulater who wanted Bruce and everyone around him go crazy. Jeremiah was a psychopath with empty face full of madness and unpredictable actions, just like Hannibal.

[@deathcrowzero45]

You said it best its two different takes of the same person

[@kalebdickerson268]

Best explanation

[@sunglasses360]

Jerome was a PSYCHOPATH, he was born a psychopath. He wanted everyone around him to go crazy, to die, he enjoyed it. Jeremiah was turned INTO a psychopath, Jerome made Jeremiah turn into a psychopath with laughing gas. Jerome was born to be the Joker. Jeremiah was just merely turned into the Joker.

[@sunglasses360]

No offense, but people who say Jeremiah is more intense, or cold didn't watch all scenes with Jeremiah and Jerome. Jeremiah was an innocent boy turned psycho. Jerome was born psycho making him the more scarier, cold, hateful Joker. I mean come on, Jerome killed his mother and wanted his brother dead.

[@TheGravey1980]

Antisocial personality disorder, not psychopath. There's a HUGE distinction.

[@deppstepp3330]

I just hope Cameron Monaghan will be allowed to portray the actual Joker in a movie or tv show some day.

[@ninorose7987]

He sucks though. Jared’s joker is better than this especially the one they just showed at the end of zacks justice league that came out recently.

[@jimbeam2299]

@@ninorose7987 Jared’s joker is awful and only liked because of the Snyder connection (who is also extremely overrated)

[@ninorose7987]

@atioayak clearly haven’t seen the end of the Snyder cut.

[@ninorose7987]

@@jimbeam2299 clearly haven’t seen the end of the Snyder cut.

[@yashjoseph3544]

@@ninorose7987 The end of the Synder cut didn't make him better.

[@handsomeneanderthal4176]

I think the show was trying to, in the end, show that Cameron could not only play the wild, lose, modern version of the joker, but that he could portray the original joker, who was a solemn sadistic genius who, by cannon, was physically pained by laughter, ironic to his name

[@samsantiago3919]

I love how many people clearly didn’t actually watch the video

[@gavyntaylor5541]

Is that why it has so many likes lol

[@treskyplesky1189]

Tbh that's always a toll for clickbait-y titles

[@mathunit1]

@@treskyplesky1189 I've seen more clickbait-y titles with less dislikes. So I call bullshit.

[@ristilukki]

Clickbait titles are annoying as fuck. That's why.

[@mynamedoesntfi--6161]

@@ristilukki But... this wasn't clickbait?

[@maxcarroll9146]

Funny enough that hamil plays joker and a star wars character and Cameron well...

[@Tysean]

Is he gay irl

[@exquisitecorpse__]

@@Tysean no, I dont think

[@mynameajeff5369]

@@exquisitecorpse__ he is

[@exquisitecorpse__]

@@mynameajeff5369 I just looked it up he isnt

[@mynameajeff5369]

@@exquisitecorpse__ my bad i thought he was

[@BawonSamndi]

When they introduced Jeremiah I was hoping that at the finale both brothers fall into the acid vat where only one survived and Bruce (and therefore the audience) would never know who did. Like that's Gotham interpretation of the mystery of Joker origins.

[@WhyTho525]

That would've been awesome

[@jaoofficial8136]

Damn

[@subtoalbertdrinkwater1552]

No cap I had the same thoughts when Jeremiah was first inroduced

[@maldon3659]

Damn, this sounds much better than what we got in the end

[@sizar9003]

Jerome has not connection with Bruce. He just wants kill him

[@bozovasovic]

So he is the worst joker and he's not the worst joker, bet

[@llamavoid7696]

Shoulda had Jeremiah become Bruce’s friend eventually and at the end reveal Jerome is alive and have him kill Jeremiah to make Bruce go insane and finally kill Jerome

[@noahthompson5010]

@@llamavoid7696 dumb ending sorry I don’t like it

[@beastedninja3757]

@@llamavoid7696 no thats soo stupid its the exact opposite of batman and his arc

[@torriegotdrip6949]

@@noahthompson5010 I actually like the ending in the end the joker gets what he wants

[@noahthompson5010]

@@torriegotdrip6949 but that’s not what the show is about it’s about how Bruce becomes Batman

[@TheJotaroKujo]

The thing is though, both Jerome and Jeremiah were two halves of the Joker. Jerome was the anarchy, the insanity, the laughs. What Jeremiah lacked. But Jeremiah had the intelligence, the arrogance, the super sanity. What Jerome didn't have. The Joker things that Jeremiah had that Jerome didn't might not be as flashy or recognizable, but they're just as important, if not more. There were A LOT of not Joker-like things that Jerome had/did, as well. Jerome would have never gotten anywhere without the help of Gallivan, his followers, Scarecrow or Mad Hatter. That is pathetic. Joker doesn't work for or with anyone. He does it solo. He only uses people. That is a VERY important plus for Jeremiah. Neither Jerome or Jeremiah were the Joker, they were just factors in the equation. Someone can't magically become a criminal mastermind. No one talks about how Jerome was just... dumb. That is kind of a big con. You can't become a genius... but you can become mad. That is why Jeremiah was the one in the end. Jeremiah DOES get Jerome's insanity and behaviour progressively in season 5. Jeremiah getting Jerome's elements he was missing was his final tranformation into the Joker, which is what ended up happening. Now, I have my issues with Gotham's final Joker myself, much more than Jeremiah, actually. But then again... we didn't see much. Anyway I assume and hope that this is exactly what you will adress in the third video.

[@WhyTho525]

Jerome wasn't dumb. He was smart, maybe not a super educated genius like Jeremiah was but he was still smart. He managed to find his way out of Jeremiah's bunker in 4x17 just be memorizing Jeremiah's childhood drawings, he had Mad Hatter provide the distraction for the GCPD, while he and Scarecrow get what they need in 4x17, he made a giant bomb in 3x13 which was powerful enough to destroy Gotham's power plant, he knew that Bruce was bluffing about the owl statue in 3x14 and he also knew that Bruce was just trying to get some time to escape in 3x14, when Bruce criticized his showmanship skills, he knew that it might bite him in the ass, but he still went with Bruce's idea, because was willing to take the risk, just like the Joker does in many occasion (such as overdosing himself on Titan and ect.). He even said that he could escape at any minute from Arkham when Penguin noted that Jerome seems to have everyone under his thumb in the Asylum, if Jerome just wanted to leave, he would've just escaped and not need Scarecrow or Mad Hatter to do so. Hell, he was smart enough to realize that Penguin might betray him, so he had his own men keep an eye on him, however Penguin still managed to get out because he has huge plot armor. Also the Joker does work in groups, such as the Legion of Doom and he even required help from other villains, such as in Batman: Arkham Asylum and Batman: Arkham Origins, even in Death of the Family. Let's not forget about the fact that Jerome predicted that Jeremiah and Bruce will become friends used this opportunity to posthumously trick Jeremiah and make him think that the Jack-in-the-box was sent by Bruce. So no, Jerome wasn't dumb. However the points with Galavan were valid, I admit. Also, the Joker is aware of his insanity and that he is evil, Jeremiah deludes himself into thinking that he is sane and that he is the good guy helping Bruce, however Jerome understood that he was evil and insane, he just didn’t care, he enjoyed it.He even smiled in satisfaction when his father said that his legacy will be a curse upon Gotham, just like the Joker would've. But I see your points too sir.

[@TheJotaroKujo]

@@WhyTho525 you make solid points as well. I might have been a bit too harsh by using the word "dumb". The thing is that Jeremiah was leagues above Jerome when it came to seriously bringing Gotham to its knees, AND he did it all by himself pretty much, not really needing Rha's Al Ghul or Ecco, while Jerome really did need Scarecrow and Mad Hatter, outright depended on them, to make his plans happen in season 4. But yeah, agree with what you said for the most part as well. I do have to say that when working with other villains in the Legion of Doom and when sharing the villain spots in the Arkham series, Joker wasn't really teaming up at all, he only does so if there is something in it for him, he uses others, he never really has any common goals. Jeremiah fits that a lot better than Jerome. And when it comes to the insanity or super sanity in Joker, it really depends on the many versions of the character. But I find the super sanity Jokers more fascinating and convincing. Which makes me gravitate towards Jeremiah as well.

[@WhyTho525]

@@TheJotaroKujo Maybe, but I don't think that Jeremiah's plan to make No Man's Land would've worked without Ra's and the League of Assassins taking his bombs and using them to blow up the brigdes, however I admit he would've succeeded if he didn't leave the blue prints of the bombs inside his bunker so Gordon could take it to Lucius Fox. Also, to be fair almost everyone in the Legion of Horribles was Jerome's pawn, except for Penguin. Gotta respect that while Jerome might've not been able to create the Joker's Laughing Toxin on his own, he still came up with the idea and managed to use Scarecrow and Mr Freeze to do it for him. He was aware of his own weaknesses, but he managed to cover it up by using his charisma to manipulate Scarecrow and Mr Freeze. Also, I madly respect Jerome for the fact that he was willing to use his deeply hated brother to continue his legacy of terror as plan B, after he died for the second and final time.

[@jacuzzibob6489]

I didn't even read this lol

[@Foxtrot5]

I preferred Jeremiah as we got to see him slowly develop from sane to insane, which built up somewhat of a relatability (if I became the Joker, I'd be more of a Jeremiah). However I didn't like what they did in the finale. I would have preferred if Jerome and Jeremiah both fell in the acid, one dies, the other survives, but nobody knows which is which.

[@jetman80pops]

Sorry but Leto is the worst Joker and it's not even close.

[@rafosdesign9576]

100%

[@aarav7851]

How much have we saw him 10 min? Or less

[@rafosdesign9576]

@@aarav7851 10min ? Geez that was way too much of him.

[@aarav7851]

@@rafosdesign9576 yes it was but maybe giving him more time could give a better joker While I still want Cameron as the joker of Matt Reeves batman trilogy

[@oscardiaz4792]

Poor opinion on a movie that was cuck and fucked by producers and the company leto didnt had enough time or performance period dont pass judgment on a man that had no power in his job.

[@joshchargez4511]

Sometimes a Joker that is calm and seems sane is sometimes scarier than the WILD Joker.

[@cr1pwalkcam-ron823]

oath

[@Alexander-mw8wk]

In retrospect, the clown is jerome, the criminal is jeremiah and the comedian...I feel like that's jeremiah in the final season. I don't think that is what they were going for, but from that perspective Cameron nailed all three. They could make a live action following the 3 Joker storyline and just have Cameron play all three Jokers. I feel like that would be amazing.

[@oscardiaz4792]

Jeremiah is the criminal the whole time period his laugh hurts period the comedian joker is Jack Napier the hit man failed comedian the red hood there was no connection with Jerome or Jeremiah with the red hood jack Napier

[@Ian-hj4yt]

@@oscardiaz4792 Jack Napier is actually the Criminal.

[@o-shawnspecific80]

And there was plenty of connection to Jack Napier...considering the 90s Hamill Joker is none other than, as well as Jack Nicklson in the 89 Burton film.

[@oscardiaz4792]

@@Ian-hj4yt my mind just blown i was considering that Jeremiah was the shows version of the criminal i really thought jack was red hood before that a failed comedian or hit man for the mob but his story multiple choice but maybe your right the comdian in the comics was named Jerome

[@Ian-hj4yt]

@@oscardiaz4792 Jack Nicholson and Jeremiah pre chemicals: Criminal Cesar Romero and Jerome: Clown Heath Ledger, Joaquin Phoenix and Jeremiah post chemicals: Comedian

[@nicholasmolinari7549]

If u imagine all three of them merging into one joker you'd realize the joker we all know and love was in the show the whole time since Cameron's first appearance

[@katheller4982]

Cameron is so great, he mixes the best of all the jokers i have seen, he is pure talent

[@mr.jwashere7549]

Also Jeremiah was pretty much joker in like all of the fifth season. Throwing him in acid was just the unnecessary cherry on top.

[@ytfanman5076]

That were exactly my thoughts

[@deathcrowzero45]

Its part of jokers history if it makes no sense neither does joker he has really no origin

[@reuv8441]

@@deathcrowzero45 I no speak depressed type-writer

[@bigmac-1181]

Necessary*

[@bosscommando4694]

Ya'll fans were the ones desperate wanting to have this simliar to jack napiers origin where he falls into the vat of chemicals and thats what u guys got.

[@dazz1903]

Cameron’s Insanity+ Marks Voice+ Phoenix’s Body Movement and Shape+ Heath’s Destructive Personality+ Jack Nicholson’s Personality= THE JOKER

[@Jsssddfgffghshdhdhusjsjd]

Jack Nicholson's dangerous insanity+Cameron's destructive insanity+Phoenix's anger & movements+Mark's voice+Heath's worldview and lack of self preservation is perfect

[@abad041415]

Good ass joker next to heath for me

[@Rebazar]

Heath's was more than looks

[@DeathSurgeonKid]

"Gotham Had The Worst Joker" 🔫 *reads the description of the video* *gently puts 🔫 away*

[@glitch1093]

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@eddybrash1793]

😂😂😂

[@rikiishitoru8885]

Oh no! A water gun

[@mrflores6327]

The sane Joker is an interpretation of golden age Joker from the comics. He was more of a crime boss than comedian

[@GalaxyStudi0s]

Out of the main topic but to anyone who says this is the Worst Joker, I was gonna mention Jared Leto, until I realized that his performance was so bad and uncharacteristic of the character, that you can’t even say he was the Worst Joker as he wasn’t even a Joker.

[@elecate123]

Yeah he was really bad, but I actually don't think he's a bad actor, i would blame the writers more

[@GalaxyStudi0s]

@@elecate123 Oh I don’t mean that he is a bad actor. I mean yea I blame the writers mainly, though for the film as well, I have to give him some credit for being so uncharacteristic of the Joker character. I mean we probably won’t see the official director’s cut, but as of now, adding up the footage we have as well as bits from interviews, behind the scenes, and the Purple Lambo song, it’s clear Jared Leto also was bad in terms of character for that movie. I’m fine with changing up characters, but when they are unrecognizable for the main part, that’s a problem I have. I mean look at Joaquin Phoenix. His Joker was different, and not exactly like he is usually depicted, though at the core, he still has crucial factors that make the Joker character. Jared Leto is not a bad actor I hope (I haven’t seen much of his work), though in this particular film I’d call his performance bad.

[@elecate123]

@@GalaxyStudi0s yeah I guess so, I agree with you on almost everything, I was just tired of people getting mad at him even for the lines, and everything, he didn't write the script lol

[@sizar9003]

@@elecate123 Jared is amazing actor, but he is worst Joker

[@elecate123]

@@sizar9003 I agree, his joker was terrible but it wasn't only his fault, he didn't write the script or anything

[@ytfanman5076]

Actually Suicide Squad had the worst Joker

[@Jsssddfgffghshdhdhusjsjd]

claps I'M AN IDEA makes crocodile noise EH EH EH IIIIIIIIIIIH

[@cyro5535]

Facts bro

[@humanity600]

Shittiest version ever...

[@Ryantheman17]

It's actually not his fault he didn't have much of a long script in suicide squad so I disagree he could've been real good if he was in the movie longer

[@cyro5535]

@@Ryantheman17 nah his style and his whole personality is terrible man even has fucking braces

[@DaveyTheDaywalker]

Vee a month ago: gotham had the best joker! Vee now: gotham had the worste joker! Me: hold up Edit: aaaaah I get it now

[@Twystedsyxx]

Honestly, I appreciated both Jerome and Jerimiah. Because, they both showcased the duality of the character. Jerome, the anarchy and passion, Jerimiah, the planning and efficiency. All of that is Joker. Jerome even said in one episode that famous line "I am just an idea..." So, even as the prototype, we got to see the very best Joker from both of them. Camron is a genius, with his performance as the brothers. He deserves all the praise.

[@tlh5145]

why is no one talking about how he got Kevin fricking Conroy to do a cameo at the end!!!

[@nickcallan9836]

@matthew martin I’m 15 and BTAS was all I used to watch (I still watch it often now). I’ve played all the Arkham games and I do agree with you that Conroy and Hamill are the voices that brought Batman and Joker to life.

[@gamesforted]

I was just about to say!

[@katerinaquinn5482]

Kevin Conroy was on the finale of that

[@not420blazeit]

@matthew martin If it wasn't for btas, it would've been for the arkham franchise and infinite crisis. Regardless, big name on DC for sure!!

[@jagtech490]

@matthew martin that don’t sound right the Arkham games sold like hot cakes and Batman is one of the top heroes so would no one from my gen know who Kevin Conroy is

[@kadenite3317]

Cameron’s jokers (both of them) are genuinely the best I’ve ever seen. I’m a huge joker fan and have watched Many many jokers and I have to admit, that Cameron’s joker (who wasn’t even a real joker) brought Gotham from 9/10 to 20/10. I preferred Jeremiah joker not because he was better but I really enjoyed his intensity and darkness that came with him. Jerome was more like one portrayal of joker who played jokes and was just reckless whereas Jeremiah was the more serious, scary version. It’s just a preference thing on which type of joker you enjoy more but both were definitely the best I’ve seen so far. Only Heath ledger comes close in my opinion.

[@Capo225]

"I wouldn't say Jeremiah was a black mark on the series... But he definitely was very big question mark" *Riddler would like to know your location*

[@archersmith869]

I think comic book roles are the hardest ones to do justice because there will always be a comic fan nitpicking a actors attempt to bring the role to Life, still Cameron deserves a award

[@korpsmaninfantry7238]

Jeremiah is closer to Bob Kanes Joker, who was coined "The Criminal" in the three jokers comic and acts more methodical and calculating. As opposed to Jerome who is closer to "the clown" or "the comedian", who only seek to break Bruce by causing him endless pain and suffering.

[@shadowprince101]

Exactly. I also think back to the super sanity quote in Arkham Asylum ASHOSE : "that's why some days he's a mischevious clown, others a psychopathic killer. He has no real personality. He creates himself each day. " Underneath all the zany antics, there's nothing there. Emptiness. He's Michael Myers.

[@SilentHillOwn]

It just occour to me, Gotham had three different versions of the Joker, and now, the cómics are doing the "Three jokers" story. Mind blown

[@SilentHillOwn]

@Flickster8979 well, technically not a third one, just Jeremiah, but hi's characterization is different, being a different revision of the character. It still leaves the series with three interpretation of the jokers

[@probot6515]

@@SilentHillOwn The comics revealed that there were 3 Jokers before Jerimiah was introduced. Also, finale Jerimiah is not a different person. I know he acts different, but that's just not how I would categorise characters. Earth-89's first Joker will always be Jack Napier, even if he claims Jack is dead.

[@SilentHillOwn]

@@probot6515 well, guess the time lapse between the reveal of 3 jokers until the time they actually decided to do something with that story hook was so long ago I just forgot the date and how the comics revealed it first. Also, yes, I do know what a character is and that Gotham only has two Jokers as characters, thats why I said versions and interpretations.

[@probot6515]

@@SilentHillOwn Fair enough. I believe Gotham probably would have brought the Jerome teased at the end of S2, presumably a clone, back to actually have 3 Jokers.

[@SilentHillOwn]

@@probot6515 maybe, if the series didn't end, perhaps that could have been a plotwist! BTW, sorry if the reply sounded aggresive, was trying to be comedic with it, but afther re-reading it just now, I realised it sounded somewhat condesending. cheers

[@grizzly7160]

Unpopular opinion: the series finale Jeremiah design was awesome.

[@fynnthefox9078]

I like it too. It's different and classic at the same time!

[@genghiskhanxxx5276]

I hated everything about it and it ruined a show I liked for so long

[@grizzly7160]

@@genghiskhanxxx5276 I don't see how it can ruin a show at all

[@o-shawnspecific80]

His entire performance start to finish was epic. I'll admit there were some bad shots of the ending get up, but seeing it in action looked good. No one can tell me this kid didnt bring every joker you've ever seen to that point to the character and them some of his own unique flair.

[@ded2thaworld963]

Ya

[@rcho223]

2 months ago: Gotham had the best Joker 1 week ago: Gotham had the worst joker Me: *visible confusion*

[@mathewbell9132]

I feel like the only reason Jeremiah become the joker was because they killed off Jerome to soon

[@WhyTho525]

The only reason Jeremiah was introduced was to keep their promise that the Joker is a successor of Jerome, but they still wanted to keep Cameron as the Joker. Joker being the successor to Jerome (who had the original mannerisms and humor of the Joker) kinda ruins his impact on Gotham, but more importantly on Batman, James Gordon, Barbara Gordon and Jason Todd.

[@grinsplit444]

@@WhyTho525, hiya, remember me?

[@WhyTho525]

@@grinsplit444 Nope

[@alchemy616]

Well, the three Jokers have been confirmed as being canon now. Jerome could have been Joker 1 and Jeremiah as Joker 2

[@danstephens99]

Sorry bud but Heath is top on this list followed by Mark Hamill, Jerome

[@alchemy616]

@@danstephens99 yeah I meant the comics called the Three Joker not ranking

[@TheAlpacalypseIsUponUs]

Jeremiah the criminal, Jerome the clown, Hamil (especially arkamverse) the comedian

[@courtneyward7149]

Jeremiah has the Joker’s look while Jerome is the personality of the Joker.

[@WhyTho525]

Jerome : The Joker's humor The Joker's nihillism The Joker's charisma The Joker's body language The Joker's laugh The Joker's personality The Joker's ideas (laughing gas, ect.) The Joker's look (spiky hair, grotesque smile, ect.) The Joker's sadism The Joker's disregard for life Jeremiah: The Joker's look (colors and stuff) The Joker's obsession (with Bruce Wayne/Batman) The Joker's calculating nature

[@Sralx5]

@@WhyTho525 both had a obsession with Bruce

[@WhyTho525]

@@Sralx5 True, but Jerome only wanted to kill him, while Jeremiah wanted to make Bruce his own best friend. But in 3x14 Jerome and Bruce's character dynamic was closer to the Joker and Batman's relationship with Jerome trying to convince Bruce that deep down everyone is a monster like himself, while tried to convince Jerome that there are good people in Gotham. Jerome even tempted Bruce to kill him, however Bruce didn't give in. Much like Joker tries to do it with Batman, like everytime. I wish they developed this character dynamic more instead of shoehorning the twin-brother twist.

[@nicksawyer320]

@@WhyTho525 true but Jerome has that look too. Jeremiah has the look of an 80s cartoon joker but everything else is spot on.

[@WhyTho525]

@@nicksawyer320 You are indeed correct

[@jeremyfratefrate6450]

I like how he turned his own brother evil to make him just like he was.

[@WhyTho525]

Basically Jerome wanted his brother to continue terrorize Gotham for him after his second and final death. Kinda using him as a posthumous puppet of sorts.

[@sizar9003]

He unleashed his true nature. Jerome says that's Jeremiah the one who responsible for his insanity, and that was revenge

[@ivetacosta2870]

@@sizar9003 Jeremiah was responsible for his insanity. Jeremiah is a master manipulator and ruined his life

[@sizar9003]

@@ivetacosta2870 I know

[@VI_V2]

So many people in the comments did not watch the video, lol.

[@trysiema6488]

Tell me about it, good video btw.

[@JackyMan22]

Gotham is too nihilistic and... emo. I was expecting a cartoony dialogue between antagonists and protagonists, but this... that's just depressing. ._.)

[@CloudTasteNetwork]

I did

[@Bb-jh9fo]

Then fix your title lmao

[@jedidiahhenaku-budu4469]

@@JackyMan22 it is good like that though

[@monkeyman149055]

I feel like the Jeremiah version of the Joker was meant to reflect the golden age version of the joker.

[@goab402]

Saw the titlecand was like "well you changed quickly"

[@WhyTho525]

The title is kinda misleading

[@craftonblair7052]

Jeremiah is like the criminal joker in the Three Jokers story

[@WhyTho525]

Jeremiah Valeska - Criminal Joker Jerome Valeska - Clown Joker Arthur Fleck - Comedian Joker

[@sizar9003]

@@WhyTho525 J is Comedian

[@TheAlpacalypseIsUponUs]

I think Hamil (in cartoons and games) is more the comedian then fleck.

[@TheSinisterkelly]

In Gotham the villains are the show, Bruce was my least favorite part of the show

[@ThePOPcultureHashira]

Same; especially when he was going through his douche phase

[@TheSinisterkelly]

@@ThePOPcultureHashira and I get he was training but he's 95lbs he should be able to take a 6 ft muscled up thug, if the actor got visual stronger through the series that's cool but I ain't no Terry Crews, I ain't even on chris rock power, but I could beat Bruce Wayne lol

[@entova]

@@TheSinisterkelly i feel like he should go out and get tossed around a few times if he’s not gonna have the aesthetic of at least an above average adult male. Even then he’ll still need the aesthetic at some point. it just doesnt feel like he worked for it. If they found a way to get him in tip top shape though it might just be legendary for a tv show.

[@yousofzaid872]

@@entova he was 12 years old when he started, the actor is easily the best bruce wayne put to live action, he was bruce wayne becoming batman and he's perfect, the way that he learnt to put up his bruce wayne persona and hide batman is perfect, his personality is absolutely perfect, he wouldve bulked up and gotten taller when he left Gotham not when he's 16, you guys are judging him too much.

[@entova]

@@yousofzaid872 I agree with u somewhat but he was also in a good portion of the fighting scenes in season 5. That man gotta get to hittin the gym and drinkin his protein shakes to look the part 😂

[@angelbruja]

Jeremiah's appearance with Jerome's personality, that would have been perfect! I never really understood why they killed jerome, I don't know what they wanted to do but they screwed up. On the other hand, can we talk about how this is the best representation of harley quinn that we have in live action? that lady was awesome !

[@M_K360]

Wait you dont like Margot robbie's Harley Quinn?

[@angelbruja]

@@M_K360 well, I thought she was ok in Suicide Squad, but I can't stand her in Birds of prey ( mabybe because I don't like anti hero harley, I liker her more as a villain)

[@unouloveme5495]

Gotham had the best Joker: *Shows pic of Jerome on cover* Gotham had the worst Joker: *Shows pic of Jeremiah on cover* Me: I like where youre going with this!

[@MrR3TR0]

I think they did it to have the 3 Jokers In the show, Jerome, Jeremiah, and J (who is Jeremiah after the acid bath)

[@hioman]

Probably the best thing they should have done is keep Jerome alive and have them both be a thing

[@beckmania1066]

What exactly do you mean by “a thing”? They’re brothers, you know.

[@hioman]

@@beckmania1066 i mean bit be people who live and work as antagonists

[@beckmania1066]

@@hioman Oh, ok. That makes more sense.

[@duke7915]

Tbh I feel like Gotham’s joker as pretty good because Jermiah shows how he becomes the joker as a teen coming into adulthood

[@cydamiic]

My uncreative story after the end of Gotham is that somehow Jerome was revived, *again,* and in the process it *somehow* wiped out his memory so he then considers himself as the Joker and then that's who he is known as during Batman's adventures and becomes Batman's biggest threat.

[@a.lenning4463]

Wow, an expensive Cameo at the end there. That's a lot of damage!

[@thebarbariansasquatch8108]

I SAWED THIS BOAT IN HALF!

[@_Caedwyn]

no no no no Cameron Monaghan's acting as joker was PERFECTION

[@brianquinones8123]

Here’s the best way to think about it: Gotham portrayed all of the versions of the Joker (except Joaquin Phoenix’s version for obvious reasons). The Jerome version was a portrayal of the comics and Hamill’s version combined, which is why they took a lot of comic stories focusing on the Joker for most of their fuel. The Jeremiah version began as Jack Nicholson’s version, the brilliant crime lord archetype that was present in Tim Burton’s version. It ended with Heath Ledger’s version in the series finale where he combined all the previous versions into the scarred, genius anarchist to fit the comic mold more perfectly, which explains his “J” dialogue at the end.

[@JayPannell]

Jerimiah is an amazing Joker imo

[@maxcarroll9146]

He's just a boring mafia dude and he has nothing that resembles the joker

[@LilWindex1378]

@@maxcarroll9146 Have you seen him?

[@JayPannell]

@@maxcarroll9146 yes, he does. He acts exactly like the Joker, or should I say, a version of the Joker. Remember, Joker is one of the only characters who can have multiple different interpretations, yet most of them are accurate to the character

[@o-shawnspecific80]

People who dont get it ussually dont know the source material. Its littered with comic, movie and animation references

[@WhyTho525]

I admit Jeremiah was good but I prefer Jerome by a landslide

[@Horrormaster13]

I'm sorry pal but No!!! Jeremiah Valeska is NOT the Worst Joker ever. Even so I don't like him as much as Jerome or find him as great or interesting as him, I still think he is a solid Joker. Cameron Monaghan still played this character really well. In some parts he reminded me of The Dark Knight Returns Joker. I also liked his Joker designs even so his last one was a bit too much. I mean why the F*ck have they made him bald?! Jared Leto still holds the crown as the Worst Joker ever made in my opinion.

[@WhyTho525]

The title is kinda misleading just listen what he says in 15:47

[@Horrormaster13]

@@WhyTho525 Yes, I know. I just wanted to make my point.

[@WhyTho525]

@@Horrormaster13 Ah ok

[@anthonyoliver418]

It’s funny how the show that could’ve given us a break from the Joker and have the other rogues get attention, but by them over using the Joker replacement, they ended up not using the concept of the show to it’s fullest by focusing only on their way of working around not having Joker

[@TheJokersCorner]

Gotham was a fantastic show and Cameron Monaghan did a fantastic job playing me! He will always be a god amongst men in my eyes & one of the best Joker's ever put on screen! 😁🃏 - J

[@phillconklin382]

I think the actor did a great job. I will never forget the opening Jerome scene where he turns it gave me chills. They did the best they could. I didn't like the twin stuff and alt joker they tried.

[@kai_does_commentary3519]

I think we can all agree that mark hamill didn’t play the Joker, the Joker played mark hamill

[@SavoryFilth]

This show is my guilty pleasure 100%, I’m in my 20s watching a show that teenage girls squeal about knowing it’s terrible but I just can’t help myself

[@IzayaTijisPrincess]

Agreed its terrible in a good way. Highly irrational its like a comic but in live tv. Its such a smooth watch like a cartoon

[@Kylekashi]

You keep saying that "Cameron was just playing the Joker" from the comic books, but personally I felt like his performance (as Jerome) was Heath 2.0 Which is a good thing for me, since Heath is my favourite and I felt like he had come back from the dead to possess Cameron :D Edit: Well as I kept watching you mentioned it and people commenting that already

[@swannaylord43]

Damn 8 minutes ago this is fresh out of the comment oven

[@Kylekashi]

@@swannaylord43 I'm literally still watching as I got notified of your reply haha

[@claricem.7183]

Me, who loves Jerome and Jeremiah immensely and in equal measure, seeing the title and thumbnail: *>:(* Also me, after watching the video and listening to his well-constructed and valid arguments while also explaining what he disliked AND liked about the character (and opinions are opinions): *:)* Side note, how fantastic would it have been to see Jerome and Jeremiah working together? (post-gas Jeremiah obviously). How they would work off each other and counter each other's plans, values, and personalities while also having the experience of being brothers. It would be such an interesting and entertaining dynamic to see, with so much potential for drama and chaos. I love my insane murder twins.

[@philipdefibaugh5683]

Jerome had Heath Ledger's voice Jeremiah had Mark Hamil' voice

[@claudedossantos3302]

Jared Leto's Joker is by far hands down the worst Joker. And that's a fact.

[@znightowlz6585]

Well no that’s objectively wrong. The worst is heath ledgers. You all seem to mistake acting for accurate depiction. Ledgers got the volatile side of joker pretty well. Heath didn’t get any aspect of joker accurate. He was literally a different character. “Uh duh society bad blah blah” he wasn’t a joker he was just that ex-military archetype that hates everything and wants everyone to acknowledge how bad life is. It’s not a creative character nor is it well written. The only redeeming quality was the god tier acting

[@uraveragehomophobicdude2643]

@@znightowlz6585 STFU YOU ARE DUMB

[@ethanspeidel5043]

The whole reason I watched Gotham was to see “The Joker” and I didn’t care that they could call him Joker because he is The Joker like if you put Jeremiah and Jerome together you get Joker then J was they final try at joker and I didn’t like it as much as Jerome but that’s because we didn’t get to see more of him J was literally a combination of the two brothers but Gotham didn’t make him last long enough so if anyone is attacking you for saying Gotham had the best Joker they aren’t true Joker fans. The first joker I saw was Heath’s and honestly I compared him to every other joker and there are three that beat Heath and two of them are from the same actor Jerome and Jeremiah are amazing J was ify but Mark Hamill’s Joker is the best in my opinion but Cameron’s Joker is in my opinion the Best Live action the Heath there are so many jokers but Jerome Jeremiah and J are the best and they don’t have the Joker name

[@ivetacosta2870]

I was watching Gotham only for the joker too

[@phatdominoe]

I think they gave us two different versions of the joker, both have reference in the comics. My only gripe is the order in which they were revealed. I would have preferred jeremiah first, as he seems to align with older versions of the joker. Then give us jerome who more closely resembles a more modern joker because of the face removal and anarchy.

[@chris7285]

Apparently laughing a lot makes you a good joker according to lots of fans

[@Sebastiantheonewithlonghair]

My one problem with this dude, is that he doesn't look like the joker. He just looks to young to me. His acting seems good though

[@sorandomandquirky9425]

To be fair, Batman is still a child here, so of course he's going to look younger

[@slato8510]

Actually I wanna see a young joker I’m tired of the old ones

[@Sebastiantheonewithlonghair]

@@slato8510 in my opinion we need someone in between. In my mind the joker is somewhere between 35-45. I don't want a super old joker, and I'm not against a young joker, but I think the 35-45 range is the best

[@Sebastiantheonewithlonghair]

@@sorandomandquirky9425 I guess that's true. In story context it does make sense, I just prefer the look of a slightly older joker. I think the older age makes him look more scary, because it feels like he knows what hes doing more.

[@Lotselance]

@@slato8510 Ledger was only like 27 wasn't he? Though you can't really tell through the makeup

[@PosthumanHeresy]

4:10 Cameron is doing what a good actor in his position does: using all the previous as inspiration without being too latched onto them. Ledger makes a foundation for the voice. Mark for the expressions and emotions. Jack for the sort of air to him. Caesar for the camp.

[@aezyn8645]

the actor did well on both versions of the character, sadly the writing of jeremiah was far worse than jerome who was excellent. cant shame anyone but the writes for this mistake

[@michialharris1850]

He did act more like joker in from the comics then anybody else

[@LS13.]

One of the best joker portrayals. He’s literally on par with Heath for me. The only reason he doesn’t get recognition is he’s young and on a tv show.

[@jameswilkinson2144]

He had more showmanship than most jokers actually I think he did a great job

[@spoke2639]

I feel like Jeremiah was an homage to the original, 1940s version of the Joker, who wasn’t as funny, didn’t crack many jokes, had a much more calm and controlled demeanor.

[@ZoraCatone]

Excuse you? Cameron's ability to play both was masterful. The way Jeremiah made you unsure as to which brother was scarier.

[@digitaldragon101]

I mean, to be fair, the original Joker was a serial killer who didn't really make jokes or anything. They could have been drawing from that source.

[@CourtRobGray]

I couldn’t believe Warner Bros didn’t confront Fox for the episode, “Ace Chemicals,” because although they weren’t supposed to give Jeremiah the name/drip/hair of the Joker, they still got passed that scot free. They gave Jeremiah an outfit most resembling the Joker, with the flower, the coat which looked a little bit purple as well, and Jeremiah even said the word, Joke. Sure, it’s not the Joker, but it’s still close. They even gave Jeremiah the green hair. It’s hard to see but if you look closely, it’s dark green hair.

[@mck0027]

I found Jeramiah to be an interesting take on the Joker. Before, when we've seen someone under the influence of Joker's gas, they usually become a carbon copy of the original in terms of personality. But with Jeramiah, we got the opposite. He was still Jeramiah, but there were hints of Jerome here and there. The thing about twins is, they are literally two halves of the whole. Jerome and Jeramiah couldn't be more different, but the introduction of the gas allowed for the creation and merging of a new Jerome into Jeramiah. So I believe that we got the version of a Valeska child if he hadn't been split in two in utero.

[@themadhatter227]

When you're not allowed to say the joker. I give mad respect to the mad Jokerish version of the Joker without saying the joker.

[@superiorspider-nava1943]

Jeremiah as a character, doesn't really stand out too much, being in fact a literal wild card, appearing for the sole purpose of being evil. I consider him to be by far the most heinous villain in the series, not only because of the horrific crimes he has committed, ranging from murder and terrorism, to physical and psychological torture, as well as slavery, but also because of his personality and the type of person he is: Before being The Joker, he is shown to be completely selfish, arrogant, concerned only for his own good, manipulating and deceiving just to turn everything in his favor. As Jerome said, they both think alike, the difference is that Jeremiah didn't have to go through 15 years of abuse to want to want to starve his brother to death. Once The Joker is made, it shows who is reality behind the mask of innocence, he is psychotic, hypocritical, miserable, deceitful, dishonest, perverse, sadistic, cruel and with a high ego and superiority complex, almost reaching the complex of God. His only trait of humanity is his love for Bruce, but, he is so evil, that is actually the most terrifying aspect of his character: His obsession and love for Bruce are a facade that hides a deep envy and feelings of inferiority, Despite saying that he sees Bruce as his best friend, he often treats him with condescension, contempt, and completely ignores his feelings, he even mocks on him hate threat him terrible.

[@gerechtigkeit1510]

I think it would have been a really good concept if they didnt kill Jerome while also having Jeremiah as a second Joker

[@kamakazeyt]

I mean Jerome was certainly the anarchist, the man without a plan. What Heath Ledger's Joker claimed to be. "A dog chasing cars." Jeremiah on the other hand was what Heath Ledger's Joker actually was, the man with a backup plan, a man who always had "an ace in the hole", a man who wouldn't "risk loosing the battle for Gotham's soul in a fist fight." Personally though I prefer Jerome's look. He should've been the one who fell into the acid, he should've been the man who became The Joker, even if they had to revive him for a second time. Either way Gotham's 3rd Joker, Jeremiah after the acid fall. He was The Joker. The melted skin, the purple suit, the (while melted off) green hair which would likely grow back over time. This was The Joker. A combination of Jerome's personality, the flare and charisma, but Jeremiah's intelligence and planning. The ending of Gotham showed the two pieces of the same puzzle combine and become one. Now if the show made Jeremiah's attire look a bit more Joker, they could've definitely pulled of the Hannibal Lecter personality as long as they threw a few more hints towards the eventual acid fall and final stage of him becoming The Joker.

[@kamakazeyt]

I would also like to point out this confusing ass backstory probably would've been pure perfection without the license issues. Jerome wouldn't have to have been killed by Galavan and instead could've just been locked back up in Arkham Asylum. Then he could've performed his plot to escape and had the whole circus arc with Bruce before being locked up again. Then for his final little arc after escaping with Mad Hatter and Scarecrow he could've gone after his brother, died and still sprayed Jeremiah with insanity gas. The followers of Jerome could've instead followed Jeremiah like they did before turning on him, and leaving him with the intention of reviving Jerome. After being revived Jerome kills Jeremiah and goes after Bruce Wayne one final time, only to fall deep down into the acid. Then the finale could stay relatively the same. The only real loss here would've been Ecco. "My sweet Ecco no longer my Ecco, there will never be one like you." Seriously the actress who played Ecco really needs to play Harley Quinn for real at some point, God was that actress perfect.

[@praetoriancorps]

I felt the idea was Jeremiah was having an obsession with the idea of being more sane than Jerome and therefore was suppressing the more Jerome-like characteristics inside of him, even suppressing his urge to laugh. And I thought that eventually this would become more and more difficult for him to do.

[@clyax113]

The fact that this came out before we realized Jared Leto's Joker was ruined by Warner Brothers really says something about the quality of this Joker.

[@MidTierVillain]

John DiMaggio joker was insanely amazing too, don’t forget him.

[@insinceresting8331]

12:19 “Foes before hoes” - Joker, probably.

[@AgentRndm007]

Batman explains that at times Joker is a harmless prankster who robs banks with whoopi cushions and then moments where he ruthlessly slaughters hundreds of people. So Jerome and Jeremiah both implores the different moods of Jokers.

[@cydamiic]

Jerome haters: Cameron is one of the worst Jokers Jerome haters: Cameron is just copying Heath's performance Hmmmm... 🧐🧐🤔🤔

[@nicholasmolinari7549]

Cameron was genius and honestly in a way all three of Gotham's jokers, were just joker broken into three

[@MonkeyBone316v1]

Joker wants to do both, either or. Kill Batman or break him. Either way, Joker wins.

[@ryanstauffer119]

I thought Kristen Kringle having a doppelgänger was a ridiculous idea, but I ended up liking Isabella. She was truly Ed's soulmate. And while we all knew her death was coming, it's still upsetting that the two didn't get to live a happy life together. Isabella was the best thing to ever happen to Nygma. She helped him over come his fear of killing her like he did with Kristen. It's possible that with Ed being happy with Isabella, Ed would have never became the Riddler.

[@XGRCPUGZ]

To be honest Cameron did amazing taking Mark hamils and heath ledgers and mixing them... really made his role work well for the gotham tv series... the fact he plays both roles needs to be appreciated

[@weedyeagle7853]

I’m not sure if you knew but the writers wanted to have 3 jokers in the show like the concept of the clown, the comedian and the criminal. But when budgeting got tight in later seasons and then still not able to use his name they decided to follow similar to the concept with the joker being an idea rather than a person.

[@loophole582]

Due to this guy being amazing at the manic depression role I think joker will be more like that and eventually snap.

[@ninclow5421]

The clip of Cameron Monaghan doing the dance from Mortal Combat 11, where is that from?

[@WhyTho525]

That's actually from a video in which someone photoshopped Jerome's face on the Mortal Kombat 11 Joker

[@ninclow5421]

@@WhyTho525 Oh, okay. Do you happen to know where I can watch it?

[@WhyTho525]

@@ninclow5421 kzbin.info/www/bejne/boTJgaN_a7dgbdk

[@ninclow5421]

@@WhyTho525 Thanks, dude. :-D

[@WhyTho525]

@@ninclow5421 Sorry for sending it lately. I forgot about it. But you what they say: "It's better late, than never."

[@T.BG822]

I'm gonna defend Jeremiah here: he's actually a better, more comic-accurate Joker overall than Jerome. The super-sane Joker is the superior and more prolific of the printed-page versions, primarily because 'the anarchist', the bombastic ostentatious Clown Prince, those are merely roles for a character that is, at his core: just bored. He is a distilled sociopath, and the core of sociopathy, beneath rage and manipulation, is boredom. It's not insanity, he knows right from wrong - as do most of Batman's rogues - but that doesn't matter compared to the deep, unrelenting boredom of a life without curated stimulation. Joker is bored, to his core, and an optimistic nihilist. He seeks meaning in meticulous chaos because it occupies him, he seeks a mirror in elevating an enemy because it excites him, he's trying everything he can to externalize his problems; his many, myriad, multitudinous problems. His connection to Batman/Bruce isn't just trying to break him, it's trying to understand him: he made the mirror connection, so he's trying to 'fix' it and them. If you really wanna get into the weeds, I'll also argue that Jeremiah's a better expy for The Animated Series Joker, as well. We're treated to more than a few scenes of the loud, extravagant role not being worth it to him anymore. Ultimately: Jerome's the mask, Jeremiah's my Joker.