GREY KNIGHT PRIMARIS! COULD OR SHOULD THEY HAPPEN?

[@GrimDarkHalfOff]

I tried to biologically engineer a Grey Knight Primaris, but all that came out was a guy in golden armor telling me about something he called "the imperial truth"

[@thomascrabtree]

IIRC Custodes don't believe in the Imperial Truth, they know the actual truth and always have done.

[@kens.4430]

I think he was talking about the Emp

[@DD8842]

@@thomascrabtree truth if anyone knows the whole story of what the emperor was up to its his custodians.

[@akaikiseki9346]

I would beg to disagree... Troll aside, Custodes are very strong against the Warp, while Grey Knights are very potent casters.

[@ekulerudamuru]

@@akaikiseki9346 it's not they're good, they're just that good of a fighter, that's why they work with sisters of silence when dealing with the warp

[@Drew_Thompson]

the difference between the Inquisition and Alpharius is that you can prove the inquisition exists, Hydra Dominatus.

[@iuribranco7593]

We must not confirm or deny these rumours brother, Hydra Dominatus

[@bubger]

Nothing to see here

[@nicolaspereira151]

@@bubger Omegon?

[@jamuelruiz]

Hail Hydra

[@Original-Yellow]

The first rule of alpha legion is dont talk about alpha legion. The second rule of alpha legion. Is DONT TALK ABOUT ALPHA LEGION.

[@samthompson9937]

They don't need to be primaris, just give us truescale goddammit

[@Pers0n97]

Exactly!

[@RealmDesigner]

There is no such thing as true scale in 28mm.

[@garpogods8323]

Broke: Grey Knights should be given thier own Primaris Marines. Woke: Grey Knights should raid Cawl's Lab and modify thier own.

[@ARandomCustodian]

Didn’t know the grey knights were part blood Rehven.

[@garpogods8323]

@@ARandomCustodian well aren't they both from Magnus? Maybe it's apart of the geneflaw?

[@ARandomCustodian]

@@garpogods8323 The grey knights are not from magnus. The magpies have Magnus Gene seed. But the Grey knights have the Emperor's geneseed seperate from any other primarch. One of the founding grey knights members had their thousand sons gene seed removed and replaced with Emperor ones so completely different.

[@garpogods8323]

@@ARandomCustodian the Same one who had part of Magnus's pure soul?

[@ARandomCustodian]

@@garpogods8323 not sure but it was someone on the thousand sons.

[@Original-Yellow]

Rho: "should grey knight primaris exist?" GW: "yes...yesss. They want more lieutenants"

[@ryanlanca9927]

Grey Knights are already larger and faster than firstborn. There's a Uriel Ventris book where he and Pasanius had to fight one Grey Knight together. The Grey Knight kicked the shit out of both of them. They don't need to be Primaris because they already were, in a sense.

[@lawrencevaughn9149]

Well just because they kicked the shit out of two characters doesn't mean that they're bigger I've never heard that before, where did you get that information? And just because they kick the crap out of a few characters doesn't mean that they couldn't use the help when defeating greater demons oh, you have to remember they're not fighting other primaris Marines or chaos Marines their fighting literal demons that are hundreds of feet tall and have the power of a god surging through them, just because you're the strongest there is doesn't mean that you can't get stronger and why wouldn't you want to get stronger if you possibly could? Plus they need to redo the model line anyway, the great night models right now or very unattractive being so squat. Upgrading them would be nice even if it was just for Aesthetics

[@CodyisKing]

@@lawrencevaughn9149 they have the emperor’s gene seed, they are far above primaris

[@vincentyvaldybueno975]

Agreed on that my dude

[@Matt-tb5un]

I remember that part of the book. The Grey Knight didn't even need to try. Uriel talked about how he felt powerless and shocked how easily he was overpowered.

[@40kbrit47]

Whats the book?

[@montaviasable]

seeing the Grey Knights go from a Chapter to a Legion. Now that would be interesting and as a old time fan of the Grey Knights it would be nice to see them get the much needed upgrade to once again set them above the Primaris

[@LeónSantiaguino]

Maybe grow to legión numbers and destroy a traitor legión.

[@Benthesniperof8]

Grey knights becoming a legion would cause degradation of the gene seed and the lowering of standards to become a grey knight. I would love to see it personally, but I don't see that happening without emps making a mortal be born with his own blood, complete with fractional percentiles of power. While still being Alpha++ Needless to say, the Sensei haven't been mentioned in a while.

[@LeónSantiaguino]

@@Benthesniperof8 with the psychic awakening there aré More psyckers so more.initiates.

[@FoxHound-ut1hu]

I mean their brilliant against daemons but the Vlka Fenryka already embarrassed the Grey Knights.

[@vulkhanasennet9961]

There is some potentiality that the Grey Knights gene seed is actually perfected Thousand sons gene-seed not actually The Emperor's according to some recent lore hints.

[@ghostwood9174]

Sources? I’d be curious to dive into them.

[@vulkhanasennet9961]

@@ghostwood9174 Fury of Magnus I believe.

[@sergiovergaramontemiranda2116]

Makes sense. The first Grey Knight was a Loyalist thousand son + Noble shard of Magnus. If they use the genseed of the First Grey Knight (aka Janus) they are technicaly a chapter made us the Best traits the Thousand sons have to offer. And essencialy are the closest thing to a demi primarchs (Gene seed + part of the Primarch soul) with Janus being an actual Demi Primarch

[@Dudenob123]

@@ghostwood9174 in furry of magnus, the emporer tells big M that he is forgivin and has a new legion waiting to unite with him. magnus denies and becomes a deamon prince when he learns that he needs to kill the 1k sons.

[@ghostwood9174]

@@vulkhanasennet9961 Excellent, thank you!

[@Drew_Thompson]

You wouldn't even need primaris, come up with their own unique upgrade.

[@00yiggdrasill00]

Agreed. Given the implied complexity of their genetics something new is needed for them if an upgrade is desired. Honestly while i know geedubs wants new marines i think it would be good to keep a chapter of old school around with updated armour and weapons for the legacy of it all. If they do push the GK into primaris (something i can see cawl trying) it should backfire because of the gene seed.

[@minipaintermatt]

Platforms

[@Matihood1]

@@00yiggdrasill00 Totally. A new armor pattern for the Grey Knights would be pretty cool. And it would definitely sell.

[@tomfson8609]

@@Matihood1 maybe bring them up to size and proportion like on a model scale to a primaris, I would love them but the models feel outdated

[@recreant359]

I’d love to see more null integration and expansion

[@darkinnovator2479]

Firstly, it is bold to assume that Cawl would even be allowed at the Emperor's greatest work, by those very same Grey Knights. Secondly this is let alone by the Inquisition, you forget that the Grey Knights answer to the Ordo Malleus, they are not under the jurisdiction anyone on Terra. Thirdly, the Grey Knights are a closely guarded secret, those that are not servants of the Inquisition have had their memories altered or just been executed for knowing of the secret itself.

[@morgs456]

They might not be under the rule of Terra. But, pretty sure they would do as told by a captain of the custodes. Not only through threat of force but because the custodes kind of trump the inquisition regarding "the word of the emperor"

[@darkinnovator2479]

@@morgs456 And the source of this? I've seen Inquisitors stand up to Custodes, during the War of the Beast. The Grey Knights serve the Inquisition.

[@morgs456]

@@darkinnovator2479 and the inquisition serve the emperor, and the custodes speak in the emperor name.

[@darkinnovator2479]

@@morgs456 The reverse is true. The Inquisition speak with the Emperor's authority, they take no instruction from anyone. And the Custodes protect the Emperor, they don't speak with him.

[@kieranjohnson2123]

Listening at 1.25x speed makes him sound normal lol

[@darthvaderginsburg4694]

I hadn't even considered doing that until you mentioned it. I am listening to this at x1.5 right now. A bit weird, but I think I'll do it this way from here on out. Cheers!

[@MyNameIsntReallyNate]

I keep forgetting about that.

[@kieranjohnson2123]

@@darthvaderginsburg4694 no worries haha

[@aunderiskerensky2304]

i can never un hear this

[@carlobince6521]

i always listen at x2 to pretty much all youtube videos because everything is so slow. if there was x3 or x4 i would be much happier

[@hallo-mt5tx]

grey knights are special and it should stay that way there is no need for them to follow suit with the standard astartes

[@shakyrob6512]

Plus if we want to follow the old "rumor" lore and the new lore for the Exorcists and combine them. They don't need to waste time sending Titan back into the warp to train up Primaris. GK successors with Rogal Dorns geneseed.

[@craynak]

They just need new models that’s all, not a redesign.

[@darthvaderginsburg4694]

You severely underestimate the greed of GW. That is the very reason they will make them. #$BLANG$BLANG$

[@shakyrob6512]

@@darthvaderginsburg4694 oh for sure sadly. They will dip Titan back into the warp. But for less time cause Primaris are "soooo much better". Wont even be new models. Just Blade Guard Vets with different arms. :( don't want to be right though.

[@darthvaderginsburg4694]

@@shakyrob6512 We will be, sadly. They'll upscale them a bit. My hope is that they go retro and make the OOP Metal Grey Knights and actual Primaris Terminators Proper like. I mean, we know they are gonna change everything to Ca$h Cow Marines. I mean Primaris. I have been saying this since they first brought them out. Before the decade ends, they'll Ca$h Cow-a-fy everything. ;) And I am not a Primaris MODEL hater. Only a hater of the complete clusterf*(k of the lore GW pulled out of their one good eye to push them out with. Which is why I am 100% confident we'll see GK Ca$h Cow Marines.

[@TimeIsMine93]

The space marine who got the gene seed implant right before the primaris showed up: "you've got to be kidding me"

[@insanemang9983]

Why can't we just get updated models instead of making them primaris...

[@FirstNameLastName-fe2tu]

Thank you for saying exactly what I was thinking.

[@michaelhawkins1237]

@@FirstNameLastName-fe2tu let cawl give them arms and armor... new models= profit

[@gardervang4326]

Just want updated tacticcal squard😖😖

[@YourStylesGeneric321]

Because cream son same as everything

[@ataxman1]

Exactly like sure big G man got them new armour, I can buy that. But the fact that my white scars would accept the boys in blue not from Chogoris. Or their own gene seed it's just not happening bro. Same with space wolfs

[@RandomPerson-qg1mk]

Just wanna say, that I love your content, and that you seem like really cool dude. Glad to see the channel growing, keep at it. Best of luck from Estonia.

[@shapiro5000]

Grey Knights are superior to standard Primaris already. The list of chapters that have defeated a Primarch without a Primarch present on their side is quite small...

[@ZivTheWyrd]

get this wardian skub out of here

[@Wcverhaagh]

@@ZivTheWyrd skub or not it is 100% truthful and cannon draigo 1 v 1 mortarion.

[@Hiraeth-zq8ze]

Yet they have less wounds

[@FoxHound-ut1hu]

@@Wcverhaagh to be fair that is a very disingenuous view of that fight. Draigo was getting his ass kicked and was only able to defeat Morrtarion thanks to briefly having his Daemon name, which he no longer possesses.

[@Wcverhaagh]

@@FoxHound-ut1hu there are two different versions of the story the one from the book and the one from the codex. The codex is the latest version so I consider that as cannon over the book. Additionally the book in mention was written by a person who outright stated he didn't like draigo or how strong he was so I usually disregard that story as non canon. Edit fixed a auto correct

[@OverlordMagos]

Bet they will come up with some excuse like "They have the most pure geneseed, they were always Primaris, they just never revealed it"

[@Coproquim]

They should have just used the get out that primaris are just heresy era MK1 Astartes without the 10k years of geneseed degradation, rather than Cawl Tekheresy

[@WanderingCelts]

There is a reference from the Custodes that the grey knights are kindred as they have the geneseed of the emperor. Watchers of the Throne, the Custodes factions wonder if the Grey knights are the greatest legacy of the Emperor.

[@omegaonthefly1977]

@@WanderingCelts I legit want to see this. Do you remember where the text is?

[@NoTimeAllTime]

That is what I was thinking.

[@WanderingCelts]

@@omegaonthefly1977 Yes. Watchers of the Throne. First novel. Valerian chapter.There is a profound distinction to be made here. We could both - Custodian and Grey Knight - slay daemons. We were both to all intents and purposes immune to their temptations, and we were both effective against their many strategems. There are two great repositories of lore against the daemonic in the Sol System, our own archives in the Tower of Hegemon and the far greater librarium lodged on Titan itself. We are, as orders, steeped to our very cores in the fight against the Great Enemy. Perhaps, you might say, Chaos is the reason for both of our existences.And yet we are different. Remember I told you that we were never warriors, not exclusively. We are certainly not an army, and we were intended, in the original scheme, for service in an empire that never came to be. Our cousins in the Chamber Militant of the Ordo Malleus, by contrast, were forged exclusively for this singular war against our most powerful and enduring foe. They have no other purpose. Just like the Space Marines from whose template they were drawn, they are an army, complete and self-sufficient. We always knew of their existence. There are records, held privately in the depths of our archives, which chronicle their creation. We watched, ten thousand years ago, as He embarked on His last gambit. As the Great Enemy drew close to Terra, we observed the darkening of Saturn’s moon, and knew that one day it would return, its purpose fulfilled. Consider what this history means. We know that they came after us, the more junior creation, and yet they were as closely associated with Him as we were. We both of us look to Him and Him alone as our progenitor, and share the same sense, cultivated over the wearing aeons, that we enact His designs when all others falter. There are some among my brothers who do not see the sons of Titan as much more than specialised Space Marines, to be regarded with suspicion as part of that schismatic breed that caused us so much anguish in the past. A Space Marine may always fail, they believe, given enough time and enough reason, and thus they are all part of the same potentially aberrant strain. Some think that. Others, and I myself have often speculated in such a vein, cultivate a different misgiving. We know well enough that they were designed as His last great weapon, fitted to an age that He foresaw near the end of His earthly embodiment. What if it were they, not us, who most faithfully embodied His final legacy? You will never hear one of us say as much out loud, but that does not mean the suspicion does not exist. It skulks around the corridors of Hegemon like a foul odour, faint but hard to eradicate. From the speculum certus we know we were the finest and the most faithful. In the speculum obscurus there is, as always, more doubt. A description from Valerian of them fighting together next; The Grey Knights joined me. Their steel-grey armour still sizzled from the extremes of teleportation, and the homer-beacons on their shoulders throbbed with residual power. Four of them bore mighty blades that crackled with neon-blue disruptor charge, while their leader carried a heavy warhammer inscribed with runes of purity. ‘We come too late,’ said their leader. I turned on him. The hall was now in confusion, the mobs running from Urbo’s advance, throwing themselves into the las-volleys like startled cattle. ‘What do you mean?’ I asked. We would kill them all now - by dawn, this place would be purged of its corruption. ‘This is ended here.’ His helm was caked in a dirty brown film of blood, all except the lenses, which glowed with blue fire. I could sense the psychic essence radiating from his core. It was like heat, leaking from his every gesture. He was perhaps a head shorter than I was, a little less heavily built. His armour was scoured raw where mine was ornate, and his movements were a fraction slower, though every part of him was suffused with the arcane potency of the warp. ‘Not yet,’ he said, keeping the shimmering psy-field activated over his great hammerhead. ‘Attend, Custodian - now the storm breaks.’ End quote. They even command the Custodes.

[@TheSMC1988]

Im happy either way. New range or massive additions would be amazing. The explanation for it needs to be well thought out though. I have faith It'll be awesome 🙏🤞

[@declanlaverty167]

The new box for Grey Knights isn't with Tzeentch daemons. It's with Thousand Sons as tzaangors were ported from AoS to only Thousand Sons. Thus GK vs TS boxset.

[@bradyneedham7485]

Has all of the information stated in "Dark Imperium" been retconned or am I missing why every one seems to be ignoring that Cawl was pushing Guiliman to allow him to use the gene seed of the 2 missing primarchs and their chapters, and those of the corrupted chapters?

[@Jatischar]

I mean logically speaking, because the Grey Knights are fighting against the most powerful extra-dimensional enemies the Imperium faces they should be afforded the most powerful genecraft and weaponry possible. It just makes sense.

[@Wisdomisgood448]

Geneseed of the Emperor is the best you can get. I don't think Cawl has access to it either. Why make astartes based on the Primarchs when you can mass produce one's based on the Emperor's Geneseed?

[@aguspuig6615]

imagine they just show that famed lack of pride and just sheer humble determination of the grey knights, with them just accepting the primaris instead of throwing a tantrum like the normal chapters

[@chrisfrombeyond4240]

All they need is a slight range refresh and some model updates, that's it.

[@inquisitorgarza312]

For all that know of the Gray Knights we truly don’t know if the Primaris transition will keep the advantages of their geneseed, or heaven forbid that it worsen it. What makes the Gray Knights different from other Space Marines is three things, the first is their Geneseed which is extremely pure and rumored to be from the Emperor, the second their psyker powers which they are rival by none, and finally their recruitment is so harsh that others Space Marines recruitment is relatively easy compared to theirs.

[@primoastarte382]

Raise your hand if you wish Primaris was just a new pattern of armor and GW's justification for them being bigger was simply, "because we can," no silly lore or retcon required.

[@thomascrabtree]

Belisarius Cawl made Primaris Marines from all the traitor legions, he openly discusses it with Guilliman. They are just left in stasis at Guilliman's command, despite Cawl repeatedly recommending their use.

[@Writh811]

I loved the lore implications of this and after I read it I couldn't stop imagining the primaris armies born of traitor seed each being sent out on a penitent crusade to wipe out their forerunners. But instead of Worldeaters and Deathguard etc. they are the Warhounds, Duskraiders, etc. with pre-primarch colors and heraldry.

[@LeónSantiaguino]

@@Writh811 i would love that, would make beutiful storys of redemtion and warp Lore.

[@cory7328]

Oh my goodness. I’d be down for a grey knight vs tzeench box set!

[@nothadley9893]

The only thing grey knights need, more grey knights!

[@BjornKuma]

Strange, I just converted Custodes for this idea in my head canon force...

[@alexandercarter1228]

I would like to see some of the Primaris weapon kits available to the grey knights. Even two primaris chapters dedicated to being auxiliaries to the grey knights. Maybe even a second founding to the grey knights lineage to allow for more. The grey knights are going to have their hands full for a while. They will need support

[@darklight79797]

I don't think the Custodes will allow themselves to get cut open by the Mechanicus. Plus any one of them are superior to any Primaries marine.

[@tneal89]

I suspect that Draigo's response upon seeing a new Primaris Marine would be to declare he looks like a starfruit.

[@Booyaka9000]

Enough with the Primaris. I get that GW wants to move on from the old-school marines, but I grew up with them in the early 90s and I'm not willing to let them go.

[@hamishsewell5990]

Agree completely. Plus keep the mystery of whether or not the Emperor is their progenitor.

[@IamSkuggan]

A solution could be to: 1) Give all marines the same stats 2) Make primaris variants of all existing old-marines kits (units, weapons and vehicles) 3) Done!

[@donnyd9268]

My solution was to swap the Primaris heads with the firstborn heads. Works wonders for tricking the mind into thinking they are OG marines but taller.

[@01oo011]

Same. If the Emperor wanted stronger super soldiers he would’ve made them, or just made more Custodes.

[@waylandwalace3302]

@@01oo011 well not to be pedantic but he did make them right? Thunder warriors were supposed to way better than marines but super unstable and prone to mutation so he tuned the upgrades back in favor of stability for the normal marines if I understand the lore right. Im personally into the idea that big E just figured cawl was doing what he would have done anyway and slid some ideas and archeotech locations into his brain at some point and some where in the emperors palace he laughs and goes "all according to plan!" then gets a cease and desist order from Tzeench in the mail :P

[@jamricsloe]

I would be surprised if Cawl even knows the Grey Knights exist.

[@wizzolo]

why would you be surprised? GK are not a secret to most high ranking imperials, certainly not to Cawl who has access even to the 2 lost primarchs geneseed.

[@Wcverhaagh]

@@wizzolo considering the ordo malleus and the high lords of terra barely knew they existed till mid m32 around 2k years after the creation of the primaris project under the order of guilliman to cawl. I doubt cawl knew they existed till they helped the indomitus crusade get back to terra.

[@patrickbreig1047]

gathering storm....

[@oatlord]

Weren't they on the field during the second siege when G returned? He surely knows about them now.

[@Wcverhaagh]

@@oatlord yes but that was around a couple hundred years ago time wise in the lore. it took cawl many thousands of years to create the primaris strain of gene seed. The events in the gathering storm were the first time guilliman or cawl should cannocially have known of the grey knights. So even if after that the grey knight gave there gene seed to cawl for primaris recruits (which is extremely unlikely) it would take thousands of years to create one since the gene seed of the grey knights is completely different from the astrates altogether since its not from a primarch and inertly physic which could yields the thousand sons problem when cawl tries to adjust it.

[@e21big]

more imporantly, we haven't see Terminator Primaris yet (or at least a true scale Termies) and Grey Knight Primaris can be the introduction of that line

[@JhonnyChitarra]

My personal answer is no but GW could give them something more like leviathan dreadnoughts, jet bikes, some more stormshields, some 30k things... is written in the codex that they should have all the best playthings.

[@Matihood1]

I mean, not everything has to be a primaris. Just give the Grey Knights a new armor pattern and maybe some weapons and they're good to go. Grey Knights are already supposedely primaris-like - bigger and stronger than a first-born astartes. Not to mention GK are already immune to chaos corruption. I don't think there's a need for further genetic modification for them.

[@AJ49377]

where did you hear they are bigger and stronger? what book. being in terminator armor doesn't count... they are psychic wrecking balls. their power enhances all of their attacks. they are still standard pattern.

[@MyNameIsntReallyNate]

I vaguely remembered hearing something about the Grey Knights being started up from the leftover loyal Marines that had survived their non-loyalist Astsrties Legions fall to Chaos. Yet with How contradictory and monsterious cannon can be with GW I can see it no longer being valid. I had never even thought about where the geneseed to produce more than already existed would come from if the above stated was the case. Then again if somebody In the Inquisition somehow would acquire some Custode geneseed and applied them to their own aspirants and taking them down a different path the whole thing good makes sense they are too

[@jasonpatrignani4717]

First, I would absolutely love another Belisaurius Cawl Book. I think it would be an awesome was to through him into another major plot point in the Imperium to explore this. I whole heartedly agree that this needs a full novel treatment to be explored, also I think that for certain if you were going to have any avenue into the Grey Knights story line for 40K this would be it. An excellent inroad that would also go along with the lore, is to have it follow the transformation of Mephiston, and be used an some kind of extreme measure. The fact that it is the emperor's gene seed would probably bring more validity to the fact that Cawl is required specifically. And if it follows the arc of integration or expansion, the example of the massive benefits that Mephiston has seen might be a good fulcrum. He is one of, if not the most powerful space marine psycher, so if the Grey Knights think they are all that an a bag of chips, then it might be the major force multiplier for them. Of course... this all means that the actual story has to move forward a bit......GW!

[@patrickbreig1047]

GK are like a step between Astarties and Custodies right? I think this was an off shoot of flavor text in either the emperors gift or in a dex between 5th and 7th. Now I want a new Crowe model really bad, but if you think about some of WLR's other works, like the Ventris one, when crossing the Rubricon Primaris *sp isn't it a bit risky that evolving a GK into a Primris Marine could possibly undermine the conditioning they undergo which makes them immune to willingly falling into service of Chaos.

[@simonboulton1964]

If they need more numbers, then yes but as you said it would have to happen within their walls under strict guard and i think under supervision of grey knight Apothecaries, with cawl handing all data and samples over to them after the job was done.

[@TDBoedy]

I think the easiest thing and most appropriate thing to do is to update the GK's with some custom heavy equipment, improved rules that make them the super specialists that they are etc. Like rapid deep strikes, ridiculous psyker feats etc. Give them a point discount that lets them deploy their full unit sizes of their terminator armor as if they were regular space marine units. Imagine being able to field 100 of them? It should be a terror.

[@kccustodes2618]

So we know that the Big E took control of Cawl's body/mind at some point and we don't think that the Big E just puppeted a Grey Knight into one of Cawl's labs for a deposit?

[@waylandwalace3302]

Great VideoRho! I think why I like Primaris so much is because when you took an average first born Astartes VS any Chaos Astartes lets face it, there is ZERO reason a nameless average space marine should win a 1 on 1 fight, they are basically the same except the chaos marine will have centuries of expereince over the normal one PLUS what is likely MORE functional gene seed since he would have likely had it implanted back when it was still pure and unmutated as well as whatever random blessings the flavor of chaos gave him. Primaris made sense because lorewise not just storywise or table top scale gives non-chaos marines a fighting chance. nurgle makes marines more tanky, so does primaris, khorne makes them bigger faster stronger, so does primaris. Tzceench makes them smarter and Slanesh more graceful and persice, so does primaris. It evens the power balance for normal marines. Now in my opinion Grey Knights dont need this power balance as they were already a step above normal marines and more than a match for your average nameless chaos worshiping marine. I think grey knights should be left out as an honorable hold over from the time of the first born one last reminder of where marines came from, but thats just my opinion im excited to see where the lore goes either way. great video rho!

[@jasonthomas9596]

There is a whole galaxy that is going burn without help. I could see them need to become the hammer of a legion.

[@carpemkarzi]

I think you hit the nail on the head, with all the new incursions we need more grey knights and they are hard enough to make not including their trying indoctrination. In my mind Grey Knight and the Custodes are the elite of the elite. But as you said we need more. And as a grey knight fan yes please

[@BadWolfJK]

The grey knights always felt the Grey knights were a bit underwhelming considering what they are; they should be a terrifyingly powerful force that NO ONE, save for the Custodes and the first legion, should be able to handle them. They, like the Custodes, should RARELY if ever get involved with matters outside of their office and if they do it should usually be a one sided victory as well as raise the question "why aren't there more of them?". Though I liked the idea that they are of Magnus gene-seed I've always had a different approach to it... What if, having known of his ultimate fate, Malcador's gene-seed was used to create the Grey Knights and is one of their closest kept secrets.

[@jfowler5881]

I think that there needs to be some faction of astartes that doesn’t rely upon the primaris in case there becomes an issue with them, a fatal flaw of some sort, and they need to be brought to heel.

[@louismaurer5884]

For only a chapter of grey knights to have appeared when they first emerged, I can assume Guilliman had some effect on them with that limitation. Otherwise its strange that only a chapter was made considering the fact they were supposed to be a special weapon in a galaxy that still had legions roaming around as they otherwise would have thought.

[@TheKlink]

2:55 are they though? i thought they were a mixed geneseed chapter unified by the shard of magnus.

[@drkmtr9090]

I think a contingent of Primaris that operate as ushers or squires to the Grey Knights, like a support force to bolster their ranks when out in the void would work wonders. Grey Heralds or something like that. This way the GKs will get their elite status due, but also be able to gain something from Primaris inclusion Also, love the channel! Cheers from California ☀️

[@mattwright8250]

Great shout with the expansion theory

[@bogbeast9463]

I think if they came out with more grey knight’s to scale with the new marines but told as tho the emperors gene seed had these upgrades inside all along but they weren’t sure if it was worth the risk to employ them. And the new marines showed them it was a worthwhile venture

[@independentconfederate6604]

There is some confusion in my friend group as to how the grey knights recruit in the first place. I think that they take their recruits directly from the black ships while a friend of mine says they take recruits from the most psykicly gifted of Astarte recruits. But really I think that primaris is just a “better” space marine so the grey knight’s who are known for a impregnable mind would just get a superior body to inhabit.

[@nathanial_summers]

I'd be happy with the Grey knights just being retconned to where they are just bigger, stronger, faster and more powerful than standard marines because of there gene farther which would make more sense to me than just saying "Hey, there primaris now"

[@mensrea1974]

It's going to happen... I just hope the 25 marines sitting on my shelf don't become totally useless in the process. I haven't played them since 5th edition but still, I'd hate to seem them replaced simply because GW wants more money.

[@loodakrawa7768]

Rho, have you seen the "Unsolved Mysteries Of Warhammer 40K With Author Dan Abnett | Ars Technica" video? In particular, he decisively says "The chaos gods are not gods" and proceeds to talk about the emperor as a god in the very next question. I found that extremely interesting and I'd really like to hear your take on it. Cheers

[@brandocal-risian2720]

Yeah I have a largish army of Grey knights and I love them, I think their rules need a bit of buffing but in general I could see an EXPANSION with primaris but it would have to be rare and a novel would be nice on that

[@innokentiybredun6660]

Just a general thought - the combination of custodians and sister of silence, they are children of the old vision - "the great work" of the Emperor, deprive the warp of the humans. While the grey knights are a newer generation, they are still of the blood of the Emperor, and they are more like him - super potent, untaintable psykers... Maybe in the end he changed his mind? Or the grey knights are are just temporary solution for the Imperium to survive?

[@robindowse7893]

Some update models would be great maybe make them a tiny bit taller than the regular marine but still short to a primaris marine would be cool

[@jamesp7271]

I like the idea that the Emperors gift was not perfect and can be improved on, it goes with the whole fallibility of the Emperor. The only time he got any where near close approaching perfection was with the custodies as they are incapable of falling the chaos gods.

[@markfreeman4727]

the only lore friendly way that i can think of for there to be Grey Knight Primaris, is for the Grey Kinghts themselves, the Inquisition, or both to determine that they need Grey Knight Primaris. Would like to see that but i doubt its going to happen in any form

[@nick-314]

I just hope the Knights and Custodes get a size bump to get on par with the new primaris minis

[@Briantology]

1: he has access to ALL the gene seed 2: the gene seed is based off of the Primarchs 3: each Primarch contains one aspect of the Emperor In theory, if he did secretly use the traitor/lost Legion gene seed in addition to the Loyalist legions, then he has everything he needs already.

[@garronn]

Lore wise, I think it is really 50/50. Sales wise, I think they will get an update of some kind that will make the newer models stand out from the older ones, but not as a Primaris upgrade. I think if anything they will get a new armor type to look different or their models will be more blank and lots of accessories will be sold to outfit them by.

[@allanshires]

As the Grandmaster, 5 Paladins would watch that sketch bag 24/7

[@ReaverLordTonus]

I think the logical step is to make Grey Knight versions of Heavy Intercessors with appropriate loadouts and iconography. They would be the next step up from the old school Terminator armor.

[@an0nycat]

In any case, they urgently need new models. Either primaris GK, or truescale as tall as the new models of the Servants of the Abyss space marines.

[@owenbevt3]

I’d like to see one unit of primaries like GN’s available. Perhaps the result of the inquisitions own experiments rather than Mars, and limited to the lower ranks and orders for now.

[@WanderingCelts]

A physical description of the Grey Knights from the Custodes Valerian. It can be found in the Watchers of throne Emperors Legion. His helm was caked in a dirty brown film of blood, all except the lenses, which glowed with blue fire. I could sense the psychic essence radiating from his core. It was like heat, leaking from his every gesture. He was perhaps a head shorter than I was, a little less heavily built. His armour was scoured raw where mine was ornate, and his movements were a fraction slower, though every part of him was suffused with the arcane potency of the warp. This makes the Grey Knights as big as Primaris. It is now lore. They were designed by the Emperor to kill Astartes as a team. They are the Emperors legion. Maybe Cawl made the Primaris in their image.

[@daddypudding9074]

I honestly don’t mind if they do, don’t mind if they don’t. I’m happy with a release of new stuff for them to give them more varying tactics. Plus I don’t have a problem with primaris or how they were introduced ^^

[@deepblue1846]

"...A civil war of unprecedented scale.." Horus Lupercal leaves chat...

[@thomascrabtree]

This is like asking if there should be Primaris Custodes, the answer is just no. They are both made with the Emperor's personal gene-seed and are perfect, they can't be improved upon, it destroys the entire lore about them.

[@innokentiybredun6660]

Ah the perfect plan of the Emperor... The space Marines were created mostly by Astarte and Erda, surprisingly even the Emperor didnt have genetic expertise to make them... The first prototypes of space Marines, by the way, included only Erda and Emperor geneseed, before Primarchs.

[@darksider2903]

I assume Custodes won't let cawl to mess with grey knights gene seed because it came from emperor

[@wizzolo]

considering he messed up with the 2 lost primarchs geneseed, i doubt the custodes have any word in it.

[@wizzolo]

@@DanielScutt that's incorrect because when GK and dark angels field on the same battlefield do you know who has command? the chapter master of the dark angels OVER the chapter master of the GK. and they will deploy and follow the DA orders. so GK will obey anything the custodes order even more. BUT apparently nobody has a saying in what cawl does, except guilliman, maybe.

[@Matihood1]

@@wizzolo Dark Angels and Grey Knights? When did that happen?

[@wizzolo]

@@Matihood1 pandorax

[@atrumangelus9733]

Not all the chapters were given Primaris directly from the Primaris of the Unnumbered Sons during the Indomitus Crusade. Some chapters were simply given the technology to use their gene-seed and create their own Primaris. This was how chapters who don't know there primogenitor Primarch (Red Scorpions for example), or chapters with chimeric gene-seed were able to get Primaris. I highly doubt they would give the gene-seed over to the Mechanicus. Remember, not even Titan's own forge world (Deimos) doesn't directly interact with the Grey Knights. Specifically modified servitors deliver the newly forged equipment from Deimos to Titan and are mind wiped after each delivery run. Guilliman knows of the Grey Knights (from Rise of the Primarch, he worked with the Grey Knights on his way to Terra, with Grand Master Voldus accompanying him). I would imagine he worked with them to give them access to the technology to create their own Primaris, like he did with other Chapters (like those mentioned above).

[@Vohtwomax]

I would like to see the GK get some upgrades, however I’m not sure primaries is the answer, as cool as that would be. They could definitely use some better tech/dreadnoughts. My biggest wish is that GK were just better in the tabletop game, they always seem to get completely overwhelmed even though they’re supposed to be the best of the best of the best. GW has to do SOMETHING to buff up the knights. I think it would be cool if they were allowed to maybe use some xenos technology because they know that it would be the best way to defeat chaos. But I’m probably out to lunch lol.

[@Griffinmore]

I am still a relative newbie when it comes to Warhammer 40k lore so feel free to correct me when I am wrong. My understanding of the Grey Knights is that they recruit exceptional marines from other chapters. Would it not be a possibility for the Grey Knights to recruit a Primaris marine to their ranks? If that is the case, then I seen no reason to have Primaris crafted for them and no reason for Belisarius Cawl to mess with their gene seed.

[@RecoilGunnerStudios]

Incorrect The deathwatch recruit like that. Originally the grey Knights were founded like that but now they recruit thru old or wounded greyknights finding worthy psykers.

[@Nerdypugminatures]

It is the way of the future friends Primaris sell. I love my Grey knight I have been playing them for decades! But like tzeetnch change is inevitable ... if they go Primaris I will still play them love this faction so they will join my massive army (7000 points painted and based) 🤗 I’ve been in the hobby since the early 90s so I’m glad to see the story moving forward

[@ryanshaw8375]

Are you going to make a video with your reaction to the warhammer plus announcement?

[@X3MLabs]

Watching with my Son :) thanks Wolf

[@Verity98765]

They will likely do the same as they are doing with regular marines. New Primaris unit variant Grey Knights with enhanced stats, rules and weapons while the the old units are still available in the codex but largely not optimal. We are probably one edition or less away from regular marine units being moved to "legends" as it is. From a lore perspective I'm fine with it as it makes sense they'd upgrade the GK also.

[@darkmadbat_]

The main reason I don't think it should happen, lorewise, is that the Grey Knights are still essentially a super duper extra secret. In the novels if they aren't in VERY specially crafted terminator suits they are chilling in loin clothes. Outside of the Ordo Malleus they aren't really known by ANY factions of note in the Administratum or Mechanicus. The main thing we need to learn is how SPECIFICALLY their gene lineage was started. If they have mixed genestock, if their geneseed is from the Emperor himself etc. Out of lore reason? Considering it would be entirely profitable for them to just foist Primaris Grey Knights, I think it's either for the best not to push for it if you're a GK fan and just convert Primaris units as 'Counts as' GK as you see fit otherwise you're going to have to replace all your models and look exactly like every other Primaris force

[@LordGadwin]

they should have them just cross the Rubicon, turning already gray knights into the primaris marines.

[@terratheterribl]

They need something new, but maybe just not primaris like everyone else. Maybe force them to start out as firstborn instead of primaris and after like 100 years force them to undergo a special version of the Rubicon that tests their resistance to demons again. Even more lethal than regular Rubicon, but makes them that much stronger.

[@mirage2154]

Looking forward to what they would come up with grey knights

[@valentinblue1952]

Also i believe that the Geneseed isn't derived directly from the Emperor. I have several things that convince me that indeed Malcador is their 'Primarch' (their genetic template) 1. The way they use Psionics is very similar to Malcadors, with Runes and Mathematics and whatnot. 2. The Emperor's psionic picture is golden. Malcadors is silver. The Grey Knights also have a silver Psionic picture. 3. It's been stated that thr Emperor's Legion are the Custodes. There is no need for his own Astartes. Also it seemed like the Foundation of the Grey Knights has been, atleast for a time, been kept a secret from even the Emperor, by Malcador

[@Neeverseen]

Playback speed 1.25 Ah yes, now it sounds normal.

[@grey4612]

The thumbnail art is awesome where is it from

[@drunkenfox2519]

I have to wonder how long a primaris grey knight librarian would be able to sit on the golden throne

[@Mechafree]

I thought the Grey Knights are chosen across all chapters, and only one chapter is trusted enough to not be mind-wiped and able to recommend recruits to them. Am I mixing that up, or did they retconn something again? Or do they change the geneseed later on to have "Grey Knigh Geneseed that Cawl couldn't have touched"?

[@Ally.Cat.252]

If their gene seed is from the emperor doesn’t that make each grey knight a primarch??

[@AJ49377]

yes they would be, if it was perfect geneseed created by the emperor. but they clearly are not primarchs.

[@rendurai]

Funny that today they announced the new GK codex and aperantly there are primaris in the cover

[@davidsauer3155]

Love your vids. I also play and love the grey knights. I feel they need new models. But I don't see primarus being added to their ranks at all. Just my opinion.

[@alextheman3330]

Both of my favorites chapters The Black Templars and The Grey Knights need more models and content! Come on GW!

[@BlimBlimCarm]

Was that a deliberate reference to SATC?

[@mrivieccio]

They are created uniquely just like the custodes, for specific needs Therefore unless you can create a better custodes the same goes for the grey knights Imp from a more perspective

[@AJ49377]

nope. Custodes are the nearest thing to Primarchs. The lore points to Valdor being a Primarch all but in name, he could fight on par with the Primarchs and was taller than Russ. and boys Constantine Valdor is rumored to back in the pariah books, and it fits, he is terrifying. The lore points to grey knights be superior to Custodies in fighting demons due to their psychic might. not their physical might. strip them of the powers and they are just standard marines. now if you could make Custodes use psychic powers... well... mini emporers i guess. anyone have any books that talk about why the custodes can't use phsycic power. seems the creation process just blocks it...

[@kevincastrillon6675]

Crawl already has a pet Psy Primus marine. So he has a template for primus grey knights.

[@Metalsonic91]

Dan Abnett recently said that if a Grey Knight fought a Custodes the Custodian would win we also have seen what happens when the Custodes take on the Primaris Marines so it would be a intresting match up for a Primaris Grey Knight to fight a custodian

[@Crasje1]

GK could use some more different units, but i hope for the love of the emperor it aint primaris

[@jasonparrish8670]

Wait, wait, wait... even given the mass destruction among the Astartes Chapters following the 13th Black Crusade, I find it very hard to believe that Caul had on the order of 600,000+ Primaris Astartes ready to go for there to be now more Primaris in the galaxy than original Astartes. Granted, I don't recall ever hearing an exact body-count after Roboute received his welcome-home gift.

[@DefensorMilitas]

Why is hard to believe? Between Unification, Terra and Luna, the beginning of the Solar reclamation and finally the Great Crusade, a span of a few hundred years, around that many if not more Astartes were created to stand up the Legions and replace losses. Sure, the Imperium is far decayed from it once was, but it really wouldn't be a crazy impossible feat to create that many Astartes over thousands of years.

[@LeónSantiaguino]

20.000 primaris were released to reinforce old chapters and create new ones, so way More than 600.000, as to how where they hidden who knows? gw magick.