Combat: Evade Dodge Aim-54 Phoenix Missiles Tutorial | DCS WORLD

[@ArtietheArchon]

one minor thing is that you were ready to dodge "at all times" in this scenario. in game the cue to put on your boogie shoes would be the fact that there is an F-14 radar on the RWR

[@StoneCoolds]

There is something important, in dcs world the Phoenix has like 270 degrees of sight, lots of times they will do a 180 and come back at you, even do circles around your plane Amraams do it sometimes, but not as often as the phoenix

[@b.griffin317]

How in the heck does an unpowered missile do circles around anything?

[@nissanskylinegt-rr32nismo49]

@@b.griffin317 Mach 5 and insane energy retention could do that.

[@markcorrigan3930]

DCS nonsense, that's how

[@warhappens-com4489]

The Aim 54 had over 130lb of high explosive, at least double any other missile, and six times the amount something like a sidewinder. It was program to explode near you, specifically in front of you. It did not need to hit you to destroy your plane, remember it was design to take out high flying Soviet bombers .

[@Lawiah0]

The Tomcats radar has "limited sweep-angle" below 12 miles, meaning it covers less area the closer to the Tomcat. limited sweep-angle --> \ / |

[@grimreapers]

rgr understood

[@firmaneffendi2801]

Cap, thanks for the help! It help me a lot, but 'new' problem emerge. So, what if the AIM-54 actually lofting, and they come from above, in our RWR blind spot, what to do? This problem 'idea' actually come up with what really happened during Iran-Iraq war, where a Iranian F-14 shotdown 3 MiG-23s with one AIM-54, and those poor MiGs don't have any RWR warning. Later research in the US said it was caused by the lofted AIM-54 and came from almost 90° to the MiGs P.S: I don't want to be those poor MiGs, or Flanker in DCS...

[@blkspade23]

This basically never happens in DCS because of the profile they gave the -54, so that its reaching its target with the most optimal energy. The previous behavior that allowed for a steeper terminal angle generally saw the the missile dump all of its speed and missing non-maneuvering targets.

[@grimreapers]

There is no defense for that, BUT it is VERY rare that it will be steep enough to avoid the RWR thank God.

[@firmaneffendi2801]

@@grimreapers roger that, so only the unlucky pilot will get those poor missile in such conditions

[@karlchilders5420]

Great vid as always Cap!!

[@grimreapers]

thx

[@DJones476]

Hey, Karl, it's always awesome to have a real Hornet driver in the comments section. I'm just wondering if the allies actually train for such a situation. After all, the only Phoenix user nowadays is Iran. Rock on, my dude!

[@DJones476]

One other thing: It the Phoenix truly the terror that it is believed to be?

[@No1sonuk]

Did you ever try this in an A-10? I may need to do it soon... A couple of friends I fly with/against are learning the F-14, and I kind of "seal-clubbed" them with an AIM-9M from my A-10 earlier. They've sworn revenge, so I may need this soon...

[@danieledelfino6527]

Ah...that is great, very useful video, well done !! Thumb up

[@Nails077]

Wow look at how close it got. One second slower reaction and it would have got you. Really shows there is no time to think and you just have to react.

[@Syntax152]

First half of video is really unnecessary... you could have just showed how its done rather than talking an we looking at a static image (take this as a constructive critic coming from an former grim reapers pilot, keep up the good work.)

[@terryboyer1342]

I myself have to disagree. I love the theory part. It explains and helps me to understand why I'm going to make the counter moves. More knowledge and education is a good thing and will help me to be successful and survive. Keep it up Cap!

[@grimreapers]

rgr that's why I put the time stamps in the description, so you can skip the theory if u can;t be arsed with it.

[@firatutku38]

I love your Tutorial.

[@joshvellieux8693]

Hey CAP has you ever tried to shoot down a AIM-54 with a AIM-7? Is it possible because of the speeds endured by both missiles

[@grimreapers]

Will try

[@blkspade23]

The problem with look down has way more to do with Jester, than the Tomcats radar.

[@grimreapers]

good call

[@Tom-Servo]

Nice low flying!

[@manizaeim]

Wish we had aim-120D on dcs

[@schweizerluchs7146]

Absolutely

[@grimreapers]

too powerful tho??

[@possiblyadickhead6653]

Or the meteor even better

[@manizaeim]

@@grimreapers to beat the f-14 and aim-54c 😅

[@saitoichi]

Hi, nice tutorial! I don't know how to call this type of evasion tactic in English? But we call it "Hard Evade" in Chinese.

[@ktwei]

Why did you did the F-14's radar not show up on the RWR? It should still be emitting radiation even while in TWS mode.

[@possiblyadickhead6653]

It did just not that it hard locked the ft which would indicate a hard lock

[@grimreapers]

I did not have the F-5 RWR in SEARCH mode

[@gungriffen]

It does, but it basically just shows that a F14 is emitting but it does not show that it's looking at you only it's radar is on. It could be flying the wrong way or tracking you with a AiM-54 but you get no indication which till the AiM-54 is about to strike you. Only then does the missile switch from Track While Scan into Single Target Tracking and you get a missile is on the way sound. The F14 can fire a Phoenix 100+ miles away and your RWR and warning system only finds out at 6 miles when it's moving 2k miles an hour only seconds before impact.

[@Borisz80]

Just a thought. I think it's a little miss concept about you are flying without any aware. -You know you will be engaged within a minute by a Phoenix. You are mentaly purely prepared to defend it. -When you hear the RWR warning, you take immediately the correct defensive maneuver within a split second. Without any confusion. Like a machine, not a human. If you know what I mean. -You know what bearing it will be fired. -You know what range it will be fired. It looks like, it's working in exercise environment. Is it working in a battle environment when there are other happenings, random events, that will take away your awarness etc.? Just thinking loud. ;)

[@ilejovcevski79]

But it is always like that in training. The best you can hope for is that once the real deal is on, you can apply what you learned in training to the best of your ability. Besides....the fact we fly in a simulator does so much to alleviate much of that stress and pressure. We can afford risky edge of the envelope maneuvers, flying at tree top altitudes, and engaging missiles head on, exactly because we are never in danger of getting killed. Real life pilots would not do these things even in training , let alone hostile encounters. This is why real life tactics and doctrine will never quite match on-line behavior.

[@Proximax9]

Good Situational awareness helps a lot. When you know there is a tomcat out there, when you know the bearing they are coming from, when you pick up radar radiation from that direction, then you can start putting yourself in a position ready to fight against the enemy. Ive dodged phoenix several times and killed one Tomcat once in multiplayer. It's not easy, but when you know what to expect it is possible. I personally prefer to use terrain to my advantage and denie the enemy a possibility to use their stand off range, forcing tomcat into a close fight is the best way to kill it... But a smart cat pilot knows this and wont go into the mountains with you. I personally find this cat and mouse game very interesting :D

[@gungriffen]

Lol, the F14 and Phoenix missile has a range of over 100 miles. If you juke and jive every time a F14 looks in your direction then the RIO could play with you indefinitely till you were out fuel as your head and stick snap left and right non stop. The F14 can also target, guide, fire and hit up to six targets at once allowing him to just wait till you stopped.

[@Borisz80]

@@ilejovcevski79 Yes, I under stand your point and the meaning of training, but I mean, if you fly a complex mission with humans (not the deathmatch like PvP's) and a Phoenix tone came to life in your headset, I don't think you will have the time to react this quickly, if the missile is launched this close. Your awareness will be split to many point. Navigation, formation flying, searching targets on radar, searching ground targets, keep a look out for fighters, for air defences.... etc. I see, it is working in a clean environment but -and again-, you know you will be fired uppon with a Phoenix at close range, and head on. You don't have anything that is split your awareness. Just flying strait and waiting for the RWR tone to go.

[@ilejovcevski79]

@@Borisz80 i know i know, but this is DCS and we aren't flying for our lives here, just for the fun of it!

[@Bl00dWolf]

Thx you for another video!

[@donaldgregg9250]

Pretty much, just pray that you don't have to kiss your ass goodbye...

[@andreartymiuk]

Of course the Phoenix was really not designed for attacking Fighters, but rather bombers (Large RCS, relatively un-manoeuvrable ) or cruise missiles (small RCS but unlikely to manoeuvre to evade) at long range to 'defend the fleet'. It carries Sparrows / Sidewinders for the fighter type targets if careless enough to get close to them. Against fighters its main value is simply to scare them off/keep them busy from long range rather than kill them. Once you get as close as 35 nm hot to fire a phoenix in a tomcat using TWS you are getting pretty vulnerable to modern missiles since you have to keep a lock until the phoenix goes pitbull. So you are likely to have a counter-missile inbound forcing the tomcat to break the lock before the target spots the phoenix going active. That is why in many GR missions we see the combination of a Tomcat for long range and a F15 or a F18 for medium /short range as most effective, exploiting the strengths of each type.

[@gungriffen]

Turns out that's a myth. Originally the requirement of the AiM-54 was to be able to hit a MiG-21 In a high G turn. Heatblur did a KZbin special on it. The AiM-54 was able at range to strike a F5 in a 7G turn in testing if I recall correctly. Later the AiM-54 was basically down sized into the AiM-120. Cheaper and lighter with less range. During the cold war it was just assumed the AiM-54 would be used against ICBM's and Bombers more than fighters but it wasn't its design. Remember the F14 and AiM-54 were in design and prototype phase during the Vietnam War and striking aircraft in North Vietnam was the objective.

[@yoyoyoyoshua]

It can engage fighters. But they won't even fire till they're 15-20 miles out. A bomber you can fire at from farther away though.

[@AlanDampog]

great vid! thx

[@MrKilled1]

What is the long range missile the mig-31 fires? The AI launches that at like 60+ miles...

[@JETZcorp]

That's the R-33. It tracks really well but eats chaff eagerly. I find best success by going to the notch and putting out one chaff every couple seconds. Phoenixes are more susceptible to the notch but you'll want to do bursts of chaff rather than singles.

[@silviasalzmann1555]

Hey Cap Nice Video again. One question:What is the best dcs squadron in ur opinion

[@grimreapers]

104th Phoenix

[@silviasalzmann1555]

And ur top 3?

[@aak8146]

Based on what ?

[@ilejovcevski79]

Great vid! This works for all FOX 3's, right? 120's and 77's as well?

[@grimreapers]

Yes this will work for long range 120/77. For medium/short range 120/77: kzbin.info/www/bejne/kILSdYqficqBf80

[@jaredtaylor4081]

What ED should do is model the MiG-31 which uses R-33 to balance this game out. It's comparable to the AIM-54 in performance.

[@grimreapers]

yup agree

[@iDoom9]

Is after-stick just pulling back?

[@grimreapers]

yeh

[@aivenair6122]

Nice vid but where can i get that skin?

[@grimreapers]

thats a private one I'm afraid for the GR Redfor sorry

[@RoqueTHEGAMER]

That does not seems to work for me.

[@logisticsnail5014]

Aaaaaahhh the AIM-54 Phoenix I remember back in Nam’ I was in my nonexistent F-14 bobcat I done shot down many Nam’ doods with my Phoenix.... many girls also liked my Phoenix.... said it looked big and powerful Ok weird stupid story out of the way love the video very interesting before I actually start playing the game for the first time

[@grimreapers]

lols roger

[@Lawiah0]

Logistic Snail no worries "Agent Orange", or like my wife says, it ain't no big deal.

[@mgcoaching1322]

Nice, but what if you don´t know, where the missile is coming from?

[@ShadowPenomat]

I think he can roughly know where it is coming from Because his RWR is displaying the direction of the missile once it goes pipple. Then he has to decide which direction he will try to dodge

[@Aeronaut1975]

@@ShadowPenomat "Pitbull", not "Pipple" (Named after the dog breed, for obvious reasons).

[@Danofcanada]

Phoenix is like 2 million usd per missile.

[@grimreapers]

oooowch

[@Danofcanada]

@@grimreapers Yeah the missile cost to fire is crazy including the 500000 dollar missile. So when you guys do a mission with 6 missiles and you guys launch like 20 think of the financial cost including fuel and maintenance. War is expensive.

[@yoyoyoyoshua]

@@Danofcanada Who cares about the real life costs in DCS lol

[@nathanaelgodson3994]

could you do a video on how to use these against ai? Cause they just keep dodging them for me all the time

[@grimreapers]

Never tried against AI, will investigate.

[@cool_cat007smoove3]

You talk too much in your videos.