grip angles, grip height, tiller. pressure point. all related.

trying to explain a big topic in 15 minutes. grip angle, riser geometry, grip design, and how it effects the bow. too much bias on hand anatomy. and not enough about how it effects the bow.
oh, and you don't have to pay a subscription to watch "exclusive" content.
we make and sell bows. if you agree with what we say, it's all in our bows

[@davidburgess741]

A relative beginner, I'm quickly learning that everything affects everything else. For some reason my bow gives better arrow flight with a couple mm of negative tiller. Perhaps the nocking point was set up for split finger release, and I'm finding 3 under much better for sight picture. I document changes made so if a change makes things worse, I can go back. A very deep topic. Using older equipment.

[@garymickus6412]

As an Olympic recurve archer I use a thumb pad grip with the knuckles at 45 degrees.

[@BorderArcheryLTD]

That doesn't change how much you pressure the heel of the grip, nor does it change the geometry of the riser. Or the thickness of the grip model you use.

[@af8f000]

Other great video full of information. I may need to watch it again. Thanks for your insight.

[@joedaniels4646]

Very interesting topic! Thanks for sharing and God bless!

[@r.parker1933]

Very helpful in making sense of grip angle. What do you find in terms of grip thickness or palm-swell and how that affects things? I have long found thicker grips to be unpleasant/uncomfortable despite them being fairly common on a lot of wood-riser bows. But I'm willing to be persuaded to spend some time adapting if there is a cogent argument why a thicker grip or more pronounced palm swell is conducive to better shooting (all else being equal).

[@mozu305]

Thank you. I have been struggling with my grip and playing with different grip models. I have a very high shoulder and keeping that down with a high grip is a challenge. And I don't understand how a grip named after a famous archer helps me. (I have vanes shot by a famous archer, but that has not led to similar results.)

[@BorderArcheryLTD]

We are anti sponsered athletes. When ever you buy something, part of that money goes to pay someone to tell you its brilliant. Seems crazy. They will shoot product that comes with extras YOU DONT GET. That is a package deal. The bow might not be the best, but the free airline tickets is something they compromise the kit choice on. To tell you the kit is awesome. Get a grip with almost NO overhang. And get a medium grip. This moves your hand up the bow, and the medium grip puts the pressure a little lower. One will kinda part counteract the other.

[@michpatriot9097]

Keep it coming!! I only shoot one bow, and its a single piece Shrew..I shoot\practice\strive to hunt..not for competition, but the road to the grip I am using now has been interesting to say the least..I am extremely cognizant of the grip pressure balance on this 54" longbow. Its a delicate razors edge to the perfect shot..and the bow hand grip ballance is the heavier part of the equation when compared to all other aspects of the shot for sure, for me on this bow...

[@BorderArcheryLTD]

Did it come with DFC data. If so, add up the data upto 28". And then minus half of the draw weight at 28". This will give you a very accurate energy storage. Devide by 12 to get ft/lbs. And now devide that by holding weight at 28". This will give you the se/pdf. A good target longbow is 0.88 ft/lbs per pound held. A good recurve is 0.91. A moderate super recurve 1.05. A reasonable super recurve. 1.11 and so far our hex9s 1.26. The shrew was built for tight spaces which limits it in other aspects

[@666mwj]

Loving these videos Sid, every single one is crammed full of food for thought for us non-bowyers, keep them coming :-) You touch on it briefly in this video but, for us target heathens who hang loads of weights off the front of our bows (but still have the sense to buy Border lol) , any chance of you doing one at some point with your thoughts on the effects of long rods, V-bars etc on bow balance, tillering, grip position etc? And yes I know everyone has a different 'right for them' setup but the same basic principles must apply across the board? Cheers.

[@BorderArcheryLTD]

Yikes. That's a whole different ball game. Longrods and VS.

[@fahds7757]

what reference points are you using to measure deflex? off a line bolt to bolt, or dovetail divot , alignment screws... ?

[@BorderArcheryLTD]

The limb rocker contact point for ILF risers

[@petervanderbeek9518]

I have a Black Douglas and a CV good bows i prefer my Black Widows

[@BorderArcheryLTD]

People like ASLs. That's thier choice...

[@jamesbyrne3465]

Any tips for figuring if your approaching the limits of the bows tiller/grip position? I noticed a while back my bow seems to have much more pressure on the bottom limb but how do I know if it’s bad enough to be an issue?

[@BorderArcheryLTD]

The riser tips either forward or backwards as you pull it, if the tiller isn't right, or if the grip pressure isn't right.

[@Todd1arrow]

Another good video, I think too much is made about vertical balance. Yes it affects tiller but I believe horizontal balance is more important as the mass of the limbs are accelerating (assuming equal limb mass) should be match with riser mass above and below grip pressure otherwise you will get a rotational movement when view from the side especially with a loose grip. But talking about grip pressure point from a bows physics point of view I believe should be high wristed with the arrow pass as close to the hand as possible and both of these as close to the center of the bow as well. An elevated rest works against this. A question I have: Is shooting split finger better for limb dynamics being more or less centered around the arrow or is three under the nock better as it is more in line with the grip pressure. Personally I like low grips BUT shoot them high wrist to keep pressure off the bottom of the grip which I feel is a cause of high arrow impacts.

[@BorderArcheryLTD]

@@Todd1arrow check out the Facebook and Instagram videos of our tempest. The mass distribution of the tempest is centred slap bang right on the pressure point of the grip for exactly this reason. It's then up to you to play with that balance point. Yes. Equal mass top and bottom

[@BorderArcheryLTD]

@@Todd1arrow take that equal mass top and bottom, add arrow clearance for a silly string walk. Add deflex for torque control, add stiffness to no vibrate when loaded with mass at the tips, and you have your answer. A tempest