Tech Talk 34: You CAN'T handle the TRUTH!

You cant handle the truth! What Audiophiles need to know!
Check out our site: www.gr-research.com
Contact: [e-mail] 1-940-592-3400
Link to sound clips: • Behringer "Truth" Soun...

[@genjamon]

Watched this on my TV through a Fire stick, with optical digital out from the TV into a modest Schiit Modi DAC, an old midfi SS pre, and a modest Nuforce ST200 amp, playing on unmodified Andrew Jones designed Pioneer SP-BS22 speakers (

[@NickP333]

Huge congratulations on the new channel, Danny! I’ve learned so much from you, I’m sure it’ll be amazing. Much appreciation for making me a more intelligent audiophile. 🎶🔊🙂

[@dragankraljevski7872]

I was thinking of replacing my B&W 686 s1 witch i listen with a B&W 608 sub in my leaving room via a stereo receiver. But after getting to know Danny via his youtube videos i was willing to do an experiment :) My x-overs were simple 3 components. L air core inductor for the woofer which i left original and a sand cast resistor and poly cap witch i replaced for a mils resistor and a SONICAP gen1 capacitor. And let me tell you it is exactly as they describe it here. The top end opened up. More space between notes. The speaker became taller and wider. Clarity improved dramatically. That's what i heard immediately. Just so i was not fooling my self i called my brother and did a blind test A B between the upgraded speaker and the original. Same conclusion. For around 50$ worth of cpas and resistors i got my self new old speakers :). Also ordered the Klipsch pr-600m kit for my other system. Can't wait to do them as well.

[@yttean98]

You should start a TUTORIAL on how to design x-over according to GR Research design philosophy, incl. the steps you took, etc.

[@dannyrichie9743]

That would be like teaching a college class. And it would take a couple of semesters to cover it.

[@treyhorn5645]

Congrats Danny, Teach us .. lol... Heard the H-Frames getting low on OCD stereo guys channel w/ the panel speakers... Neat stuff, noticed how far out in the room the were... Really cool , your subs shot right through the roof with most quickness... I see a fantastic future for GR Research and NRD.... ✌️

[@victormorales4204]

FINALLY... I hear a comparison which actually answers some of my newbie questions. Great job. I too run a "budget" system and I do so through my computer and I have some advice for the 1% budgeteer who stated he could not hear much of a difference. His system must REALLY be bad. I heard the difference right from the get-go. And yes, I guessed correctly. My interest for looking for option for my present speakers has been renewed!

[@user-gf6gf2iy2k]

I don't get the claim that they measure all the same but there's a clearly audible difference. This seems to suggest that the ways of measuring are inadequate. If you can hear the sounds are very different, why can the existing measurement regimen not pick anything up? What element of the clearly different sounds do the measurements fail to measure? And if you can't measure such a clearly audible difference, how can you rely on this set of measures when looking to upgrade a speaker to sound better?

[@dannyrichie9743]

Take a frequency response measurement. It just measures amplitude (how loud) over frequency. There are multiple levels of clarity differences that do not at all change how loud it plays.

[@phoenixrising4073]

I could hear the difference immediately but then I realized the shortcomings of my own system. The light raspiness was accentuated in the cheaper crossover which calibrated my ears for what to listen to. It almost reminded me of when my speakers were new and not burned in yet. Delicateness and soundstage were better as well. It's interesting that the difference was discernible even across KZbin and my own DAC/amp.

[@stogie525]

Glad you got your own youtube channel Danny and looking forward to your future videos👍👍

[@dedyvideo]

Cool , yes there is definitely a big difference A sound way better, thanks

[@BlueOceanDesigns]

I am amazed to how much different the vocals sounded. Went from quite flat and "boxy/tin like" to rich and full...

[@normanbott]

Even playing the clips through Logitech-style speakers, it was clear that the upgraded components gave greater clarity and detail. Transients were sharper, vocal cleaner. I've never been a doubter !

[@dieguerrero]

Wow!!!! Up until now, I always thought xover components "maybe" made a slight difference. I thought it was mostly marketing, but I am soo surprised how obvious the increase in sound quality is just with a simple upgrade as that. Actually night and day. Thanks for making me a believer!!!

[@chrisvinicombe9947]

Hi Danny best of luck with your new channel. Will you still be doing segments for Rons channel?

[@Newrecordday2013]

chris vinicombe Hey Chris! Danny and I will surely do some collaborations together but the bulk of the videos he does will be here. I am so thrilled Danny is taking this step and know he will so well!

[@chrisvinicombe9947]

@@Newrecordday2013 Hi Ron thanks for the reply 👍

[@Salmonaxe223]

I just listened to this on my iPad Pro and then on on a mid level pioneer AVR hooked up to some JBL HP520 towers. Even on the iPad I swear I could hear the difference. Strangely the noise floor being way higher on A was very noticeable on my iPad. To me, A sounded flat, muddy and with a bunch of peaking on the higher frequency range. There was way more sibilance to the voice on A with a kind of smearing. B sounded warmer with more separation. It felt like it was more room filling with extra height to it and a stereo separation that seemed to integrate well with itself. (Like A was losing its depth in the center). I didn’t expect it to be recorded with a stereo mic... The noise floor is the part that gets me, as if it was snake oil, wouldn’t it be higher on B or even across both? I want to believe! I keep hemming and hawing over trying one of your kits, but my biggest concern is over the potential destructive nature of trying to remove the beauty rings on the Klipsch 504c. My whole system is just piecemeal from free and used components for mainly home theater use. I’ve found that a lot of my dissatisfaction with audio has had a lot to do with the source audio. As DTS HD Master audio from certain physical based media has sounded lightyears better than what I thought my system was capable of. It makes it hard to pull the trigger on an upgrade that I don’t know if I will reap the benefits of.

[@TheMqyable]

Hmm I've just listened this sample on dt880 600ohm and I don't really hear a difference... Anyway this whole thing is kinda stupid idea, we all know that louder sounds, will sounds better for our brain and you can't create the same frequency response. It is enough that certain range of frequency has higher level and this speakers will sounds better for everybody. Besides that, this sample with youtube codec compression... guys, really? I'm watching this channel since some time, and this is another, gently speaking, controversial video after that audiophiles cables-antennas. So, is it all bull$hit here?

[@The_Story_Channel]

The compression is being applied to both crossovers and if you can't hear a difference, you either need to change your system or have your hearing checked because you are clearly in the minority. I have mid high gear, Peachtree Sona Dac and AKG headphones and I could 100% hear the difference.

[@DaveMichalakChannel]

Great test Guys. The Mike stand does not isolate Danny’s hands pounding on the table... A wins.

[@jeffbeasley8235]

I noticed a volume difference between the tracks. Could be due to a slight difference in resistance in one or more of the crossover components. It is absolutely critical to volume match when comparing this kind of thing (louder sounds better to the human ear) - as I'm sure you guys are aware. If you took measurements, why not share them? I'd love to see frequency response (on and off axis), phase, and distortion measurements for A and B.

[@dannyrichie9743]

The volume levels never changed. The whole thing was covered here: www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=87808.0 They measured the same in every way. And don't get drawn into the whole "distortion" concept. That is a marketing term and has little to nothing to do with how it sounds.

[@johnshick4303]

I am guessing this presumes my sparks are good enough to allow the difference to be heard

[@stevekarr4613]

With the upgraded crossover parts is there any difference in PHASE response? The upgrade was obviously cleaner and crisper. BTW, I am in the Colorado Audio Society and recognize the RMAF shirts that you occasionally wear.

[@dannyrichie9743]

The higher quality parts had no effect on phase. And I got a new RMAF T-shirt every year that I exhibited.

[@racewazes3002]

Thank you nice to have the A to B. And even with My ears i can tell the different. Just before the world went to Sh..t

[@zippymagee]

The link to the clips is missing.

[@GRResearch]

Thanks for catching that! kzbin.info/www/bejne/gaScimupg66lgdU

[@thinkharder2028]

No diffetence in the measurements.......but what did you measure? Just on axis frequency response?

[@dannyrichie9743]

On axis, off axis, spectral decay, and impedance.

[@adamjj85]

@@dannyrichie9743 If all of those measurements were the same for the two, then how do you explain the sonic difference?

[@dannyrichie9743]

@@adamjj85 Every part in the signal path including all the wiring effects how a speaker sounds, and each part or wire an various effects and in multiple ways.

[@adamjj85]

@@dannyrichie9743 Right, I get that. But you said On axis, off axis, spectral decay, and impedance measurements were all basically the same. If that's the case, how can there be an obvious difference in sound?

[@dannyrichie9743]

@@adamjj85 Not all parts are the same. Quality matters in every position and with everything in the signal path.

[@G3rain1]

Won't the switches being in the signal path negatively impact the sound?

[@dannyrichie9743]

They do.

[@azharzaidi3264]

I don't see links in my iphone

[@scottmichaels1764]

The difference is clear through the interwebs,must be more so in person. I believe.(Always did)

[@dannyrichie9743]

A lot more so in person.

[@raphofthehills4405]

Non sense. If the crossovers measure the same, then they will sound the same. Get a network analyzer and be done with this non sense. Imagine if us electronics engineers were designing analog filters that measured the same but behaved differently... How could humans land on the moon, design quantic level instruments or accomplish high power prowesses ? Outcomes would be all over the place and your cell phone communications would be highly unreliable 🤣

[@The_Story_Channel]

You are a troll. Danny sent you to this video in response to your comment on the "Do Parts Matter" video and you just wrote the exact same reply as you did on the other video.

[@raphofthehills4405]

@@The_Story_Channel Posting an argument under 2 same-topic videos invalidates it ? Are you going to contribute anything to the topic, or discuss the points made, or will you just keep lobing "troll" labels at people ?

[@The_Story_Channel]

@@raphofthehills4405 If the shoe fits. I am not the one copying and pasting the same reply on the same topic that I don't agree with.

[@raphofthehills4405]

@@The_Story_Channel So... you have nothing constructive to add. Well done.

[@dannyrichie9743]

Actually this demonstration proves that they do not sound the same. Many that have responded here report being able to hear the differences played back through the compressed KZbin file. It is 100 times easier live.

[@RenRenification]

At what speaker price point does it make sense to upgrade the crossovers? I have 4 jamo c607 that I love, but I wouldn’t mind more detail out of them. Should I upgrade the crossover or buy a better amp?

[@dannyrichie9743]

Any speaker can be upgraded to some degree.

[@dannyrichie9743]

@@editorjuno Sometimes the expense is minimal and the effort is the fun.

[@luisrodriguez8639]

Your friend use the same headphones Grado's I use, for the price they are wonderfull

[@mytvandroid9376]

hi Sansui 3500A any way I can upgrade capacitors? or a better Xover? Thank you I just bought some capacitor MKP polypropylene Promise capacitor will this make a difference?

[@dannyrichie9743]

In a top level system just about everything makes a difference.

[@seanmangan2769]

Not arguing, just asking: what's wrong with sand cast resistors?

[@dannyrichie9743]

They degrade the signal and sound more so that other types of resisters.

[@markphilpot4981]

Question for you, do the tube connectors take a banana style speaker connector or a pin style one?

[@dannyrichie9743]

They can, but it won't sound as good.

[@markphilpot4981]

Danny Richie, what connector is used to hook up to your tube connectors?

[@dannyrichie9743]

They come with the male ends: gr-research.com/electracabletubeconnectors.aspx

[@markphilpot4981]

Danny Richie, thank you! I see and understand now! Perhaps my question was not well defined enough. I apologize.

[@dannyrichie9743]

No worries.

[@MickeyMishra]

So is an electronic crossover best? That seems to be the way to go. Is it?

[@dannyrichie9743]

No, the top level of performance is still achieved with passive parts.

[@dedyvideo]

Not in my experience, I built 2 kits from Parts Express designed by top designers with top quality parts, they sounded Good ,but when I tried them with active crossover the sound quality when up dramatically. Never looking back

[@dannyrichie9743]

@@dedyvideo It is easy to get that result when your passive parts are all budget level.

[@allanw.4500]

Congratulations on the new KZbin channel.

[@thomasmleahy6218]

Ok, guys, even through slightly more than mid level Shure iems, moto g6 with tweaked eq I could hear more than a slight dif... hmmm impressive! Spake Darth Vader. I'm limited sound wise being in phys rehab for awhile, but all I can say is say no more. Thanks Ron and thank that other guy, ah um what was his name, err let me see, oh, Danny, yes, that's it! Danny. Thanks Danny!

[@gordonvinther2079]

do the inductors have equal resistance?

[@dannyrichie9743]

Yes pretty close.

[@gordonvinther2079]

@@dannyrichie9743 whats pretty close?

[@dannyrichie9743]

@@gordonvinther2079 I don't recall the exact numbers but not far enough off to have any effect.

[@gordonvinther2079]

@@dannyrichie9743 what is the audibility if you just change the inductor

[@dannyrichie9743]

@@gordonvinther2079 The small iron core inductor that comes in these causes smearing. the larger air core inductor opens up the mid-range and bass response giving a much cleaner and less congested sound.

[@RenRenification]

Difference was noticeable on Hifiman Anandas over balanced on a thx 789 and modi 3.

[@JordanKL1]

"Openess" Yes because more expensive capacitors have a lower ESR and dissipation factor. More expensive inductors will have a lower ESR due to the thicker gauge which effects the damping factor and lower frequency attenuation. Resistors are all the same in the audible spectrum. Basically there's a reason that there's a difference and it will show in the frequency response graphs.

[@dannyrichie9743]

Differences that you mention do not show up in a frequency response.

[@JordanKL1]

@@dannyrichie9743 Yes they do, don't claim sound isn't scientific. If you research how the ear works and see that the signals they sent to our brain are entirely frequency based and not waveform based that'll be the first clue as to how important frequency response is. Frequency response characterises more than you think. For example, a flat frequency response translates to a perfect impulse response.

[@dannyrichie9743]

@@JordanKL1 No, you can have a flat frequency response and an impulse response that is all out of time. They are very independent of one another.

[@michaelpowell4823]

If you can't hear a difference in person between these two I feel bad for you. On my laptop speakers I could hear a clear difference. I didn't even run it through a DAC/Amp and a good pair of headphones.

[@TheMqyable]

Hahah yes for sure, you hear CLEAR, HUGE difference on laptop! :D

[@michaelpowell4823]

@@TheMqyable A clear difference yes, did I quantify the difference? I did not. If the difference is big enough to hear on a laptop speaker I stand by my statement of feeling bad for someone that can't hear a difference in person.

[@luisrodriguez8639]

Are the Sonic caps better sounding as Solen caps ?

[@dannyrichie9743]

Yes, very much so.

[@Yergs]

In ear phones. Obvious without being there. Cleaner, more resolved textures airier - more 3d. Surprised i could here it.