Guard Infantry Squad Variants in the New Codex - How do they Compare?

[@mk-ultraviolence1760]

The fact that the regular infantry squad make better use of the Catachan tactic than the actual Catachan Jungle Fighters squad is truly quite amazing, I mean bravo GW.

[@DarthAzabrush]

I'm actually loving the idea of all Guard armies being a mix of different regiments. In all of the Caine and Gaunt books they're always deployed alongside lots of other nutters and the Comissars exist mostly to sort out the inevitible fights and cultural misunderstandings.

[@xuruiyu]

I agree.... But I'm pissed off immensly by removing the option of 3 plasmam/meltas on a Veteran team They ruined Skitarii with this exact rule, and now they're making Vets useless as well... :/

[@landernus]

@@xuruiyu Its npt that, theyre making veterans directly inexistent

[@shanehudson3995]

@@xuruiyu Remember when Vets could get Carapace Armor or Camo Cloaks? I do.

[@lego1168]

@@shanehudson3995 I miss it to.

[@thewindowsmaaane]

@@xuruiyu just do it anyway and pay the cost, it's only cause of the kit

[@RadarLeon]

Catachan jungle fighters need a extra passive +1 save or -1 hit for being in light or heavy cover if they get screwed this bad

[@justinius2170]

Just go ham, Str 4 & 2 Attacks base

[@EHilgy17]

@@justinius2170 Where do you get the 2 A base?

[@justinius2170]

@@EHilgy17 Thats just wishful thinking bud

[@duppyman9025]

Catachan need new sculpts, We need new Jungle Fighters... Sly Marbo demands it!

[@bigbrawler3080]

Wargames Atlantic is putting out some good 3rd party Catachans

[@tjv2446]

They should have catachan blades which give them an extra attack at +1s and -2 AP. Each squad would then have 11 s3 ap0 and 10 s4 ap -2 attacks.

[@tarantulathree-one8013]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHH

[@richmcgee434]

@@bigbrawler3080 Which are now out in the US and should be in the UK and Australian warehouses shortly. At $35 for 20 anyone who isn't purely an official-tourney-only player would be well served to take a look at them. Much better than the ancient GW figs, and they've got plans to expand with weapon teams and field artillery down the road.

[@biowepcosmic]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[@Tirak117]

Wow that Catachan sheet is disappointing. More points, losing all their good special weapons and in exchange you get flamers? Not even a heavy flamer. I used to run Catachan in 8th edition, but if there's not a whole bunch of other rules buffing them up then Catachan, who are famous for their light infantry, will have one of the worst Guard Infantry squads in the game.

[@equos5060]

Seriously, you have 10+ necromunda gansa and 20 blood bowl teams but somehow GW can only produce Cadians for the guard... I love their logical moves!

[@stevenschnepp576]

I think it time Guard players loot the Ork player's approach to kits.

[@jonasgrant]

@@stevenschnepp576 That is indeed what I did. Mixed Palatine Subjugators with Catachans and now everyone in my army is Clay Carmine from GOW 3

[@chae7684]

Funnily enough the death korps special rule counters the death guard debuff. Pretty good in that specific matchup guess those gasmasks really work

[@missivory_missraine]

And the combat tactics work too. Trench in, and fight for every inch.

[@steaksoldier]

I wish catachans could just deepstrike. like they could just pop out of the bush and lock someone in melee for turn at worst and surprise kill a GEQ squad if theyre lucky.

[@stevenschnepp576]

Catachans popping out of terrain features would be highly entertaining.

[@KingBobbito]

At the very least a scout move/forward deployment would be good.

[@LewisB3217]

I don’t know how they haven’t got something like the cult ambush for genestealers, maybe with buildings / terrain features like someone else said

[@vice1219]

@@KingBobbito yes scout move is exactly what I was thinking, the forward deploy might be too good but a scout move is perfect

[@jamesespinosa690]

That sounds too cool and I didn't know how much I wanted to see that army until just now!!!! I've always loved the idea of making a catachan army. But the rules never really made me feel like they played proper.

[@PelinalDidNothingWrong]

I've said it so many times but I'm desperate for new Vostroyans. Hell,I'd settle for an upgrade sprue rather than new models

[@andresdelalamo2461]

Navy breachers bodies, krieg rifles and a headswap and you have something quite close!

[@minishaw280]

Talarn

[@agollumcalledgandalf]

Get a friend with a 3D printer and voila

[@cpom5075]

Le Grognards from Wargames atlantic.

[@bustedcogitator8954]

I've managed to get my hands on a few of your lucky troll trader has them in occasionally

[@beardyfluffbag]

Hate free upgrades where there’s a choice of them and some clearly just better rip grenade launchers

[@stevenschnepp576]

Me too, Beardy. Me too.

[@phinix_fire]

Hate that iam forced to take them, i just want to throw wave after wave of bodies at the foe, those darn special weapons should be left to the specialists.

[@captainjimmy6947]

@@phinix_fire you aren’t forced to take them, you could ignore them but you would just be handicapping yourself

[@phinix_fire]

@@captainjimmy6947 well they got free through an increase in points. I cant choose to take them for their prior points. While u right iam not forced, iam not given an alternative option either

[@decius1000]

I feel the same: why take a flamer or grenade launcher when plasma and melta are also free? With a 65pt squad, NOT taking plasma or melta feels like your are shooting yourself in the foot. However, if they had something where the flamer or grenade launcher's got some synergy with orders that the plasma and melta didn't, I could see them being "equivilent", but I doubt that will be the case.

[@CptPanda29]

If the new kits were legs + torso then you buy "upgrade kit" torsos like the tactical squads that alone would be amazing for different planet guard. But the folds of the jacket sit a bit too nice on the legs to be that modular I think.

[@equos5060]

yeah, no way. Just Cadians for everyone.... meanwhile, you have 10 different necromunda gangs and 20 different blood bowl teams to not play....

[@richard_n]

This is the first "bad" thing I've seen so far from the new Guard codex. The infantry should be the core of the army and be able to be a big asset in any army composition.

[@thewildmage36]

Mordian Glory did a battle report with the playtest rules and came away with the opposite opinion. The newly buffed orders (+1 to hit and ap is better than the old FRFSRF imo), great regimental traits, new command abilities (reroll wounds of 1, +1 strength to lasguns, etc), and two special weapons on each squad make infantry punch above their weight compared to how they used to, even though the Cadian Infantry datasheet (the only good one imo) costs 65 points instead of the old 60 points.

[@mirahana6366]

@@thewildmage36 Raw performance increase is not an excuse for screwing with players current lineups and reducing player choice and enjoyment. Better statistically does not mean more fun especial for people who care more about flavor, and unless you plan to reorganize your whole army around the new rules your old squads likely won't be getting an increase in effectiveness.

[@fox21231]

@@thewildmage36 Its worse still when you consider orders cost so much more points. Also the old FRFSRF within 12" gave you 4 shots each which combos incredibly well with Hammer and is numerically better than the new units getting +1 to hit and +1AP. The nerf to move move move is significant and we lost the fall back and shoot infantry order. Also the infantry squads cost an additional 5 pts and lose the sergeants free plasma pistol and power sword.

[@fox21231]

@Friendly Neighbourhood Sunwheel Its looking grim for infantry my based sunwheel fren.

[@coldsteel.and.courage]

If Catachan does end up getting screwed like this it'll be such a collosal GW blunder with a unit they could have done so much with.

[@garlikkt6028]

So.. standard geedubz move, then?

[@jacobguevara3708]

@@garlikkt6028 So why even have them at all? If all of them are just downgrades what's the point?

[@mh1ultramarine]

I'd put money on them getting a buff via a new codex or sub codex like with space marines and famous chapters

[@oblivionfan345Tony]

For real, THEY'RE JUNGLE FIGHTERS. Let them ignore Difficult Terrain modifiers. If they can only take Flamers let their Flamers fire at max shots or D3+3 for Emperor's sake.

[@eoin4529]

Yeah dude, there's so much you could do, deep strike from anywhere there is dense cover? Untargetable while in dense cover if >24 inches away? A Catachan veteran squad where they can all take chain swords, or Catachan blades for extra AP? Sergeants get power fists so they can punch for strength 8? The list goes on

[@noirerequiemii101]

Sad that it seems Catachan got screwed this codex

[@scottland8698]

So they'll give us an entirely new weapon for sergents......that's effectively just a lasgun.....BUT WONT LET HIM TAKE A DAMN LASGUN?

[@benfellsfive9664]

Anything to avoid giving a guard sergeant his own lasgun lmao.

[@pikciwok6360]

It's twice as good as base lasgun. It will also probably get cancelled as an option in, like, 11th or 12th edition. From fluff perspective I believe it's a nightmare for Imperial Quatermasters :D

[@LewisB3217]

@@pikciwok6360 not really, about the same as a lasgun burden wise, most guardsmen just don’t use them cause it burdened their troops with physical ammo

[@pikciwok6360]

@@LewisB3217 I meant it's yet another piece of weaponry which requires separate ammunition and spare parts

[@Bluecho4]

It also doesn't count as a lasgun, in terms of any rules that proc off the use of lasguns. Like, for example, the Cadian squad's exploding 6s on shooting.

[@endlesswaffles6504]

RIP catachans. Don't be afraid, soon you will be with the steel legion and elysians

[@wyatttyson7737]

I believe Mordian Glory’s leak says that the Catachan sheet says “for every 5 guardsmen you may take 1 flamer.” Could this mean that Catachan can be taken in groups other than 10?

[@celem91]

This is more likely to be an explicit declaration of 0-2 flamers to prevent you from putting 2 into a 5-man.

[@wyatttyson7737]

@@celem91 Yes. As of right now, Catachan Jungle Fighters (a.k.a. Infantry Squads in general) have to be in blocks of 10 exactly. Hence, you'd always only be able to take exactly 2 flamers. Unless the Jungle Fighters can be taken in different squad sizes. If they can be taken in blocks of 5-20 that will give them a good reason to take them!

[@hideshisface1886]

Shock troops seem like the best ones in terms of raw firepower. Like it or not - special and heavy weapons on infantry squads are addition to the primary, which are lasguns - and they buff the primary weapon you have - and exploding on 6s is nice, helping to mitigate the overall mediocre accuracy of Guardsmen. One thing of note - if Sergeant's upgrade is an autogun - I'm not sure it would work with the lasgun buffs, so it may not be as straight an upgrade. Common infantry squad may be a better option for objective camping, when stuffed with a heavy weapon, but that is about it... Unless there are still regimental doctrines that convey buffs for sitting in one place. Catachans kind of hinge on S value, otherwise you pay extra for a very, very situational gimmick - they might be decent if you can somehow get them in a transport to vulnerable backline... If they have it. Backlines these days seem to be buff infested castles, so that may not be really that viable. Kriegsmen seem overcosted for what they do - medic and special rule buffing durability... BUT it is still T3 sv5+ we are talking about - it is not like they will suddenly tank any real firepower anyway. And their own firepower with 3 special weapons... I'm not convinced.

[@richmcgee434]

The playtest rules leaked for these are some of the things I most doubt will it through to the final version unchanged. The problems (particularly with the Catachans) are self-evident and must have generated a lot of negative feedback.

[@stevenschnepp576]

If it weren't GW, I'd think they released rules they knew were flawed because they knew they'd be leaked, and the codex will have the "fixed" version.

[@richmcgee434]

@@stevenschnepp576 I don't think I'd credit them with being quite that sneaky, but maybe. Seems more likely that the playtest doc is one final big middle finger to GW by one of the many playtesters who got axed a while back - supposedly in part because there were too many leaks happening.

[@spoonsrattling]

From what mordian glory tested, finally having reroll auras makes infantry guard have much, much better at shooting making them actually dangerous at range especially with take aim.

[@spoonsrattling]

@mandellorian love the knight comparison who can fold to basically any semi competent melee army lol

[@fozzybear17]

Morning brits 💪

[@epiccgamner3567]

Morning king, hope you kings had a great 8+ hrs of sleep

[@ms_rifle_spiral]

Yaaaay I love running infantry-heavy Krieg, so I'm glad to see that's being made more difficult to do. Seriously tho they're just Guardsmen that can't be wounded on 2's via weapons you'd never think to waste on Guardsmen, why are they 80 Points, 85 with the medpack The rumour about the specific Infantry Squads getting buffs from their respective regiment bonus better be true, hopefully so that the lads can't be wounded on 3's either but who knows, maybe it'll be some other buff, because otherwise *why in the Emperor's name do my Guardsmen cost 80 points*

[@Jesusguy-08k]

They just want to save you money on Krieg is all

[@LeCharles07]

No, this is 9th so no bonus for you. Instead, every regiment will have 68962 strategems in addition to the army and core strategems.

[@morcar8991]

As Mr. Mordian Glory already suggested, if Catachans had +1 attacks in their profile they would be fine. As for my take, Catachans shozuld be able to take HWT in the squads, because you would take brutal strength anyways if you play Catachans.

[@jasongarfitt1147]

+1 attack and the same everything else they become playable. I don't know why they thought exploding 6s in melee was worth more points than exploding 6s shooting that cadians get

[@tjv2446]

Catachan should get 2 flamers for free as well as either a heavy flamer or a meltagun.

[@tjv2446]

They should also have catachan blades instead of las pistol sidearms which give them an extra attack at +1s and -2 AP. Each squad would then have 11 s3 ap0 and 10 s4 ap -2 attacks.

[@richmcgee434]

@@tjv2446 No. FFS, +1S and AP-2 is better than a chainsword and precious close to a power sword even if you can only make one attack with it. It puts ork choppas to shame. That kind of profile creep is a large part of what's ruined 9th edition and you want more of it? Just no.

[@CubedQ]

I think having 1 or 2 Death Korps squads in your army might be a good idea. If those 20 extra points can keep them tar pitting a serious melee threat for 1 more turn, it will be worth it.

[@xlightingedgex]

I was thinking about this yesterday but with the way they have made these special regiment squads variants or what ever term you want to use for them this means they could totally release more guard kill teams of different regiments e.g. Tallarn, Vostroyan, Steel Legion and so on and just make a whatever regiment squad datasheet to add to the guard codex as time goes on I'm wondering if there is any intent to do something like that or this is just my hopeful thinking of getting more guard regiments in plastic

[@jervoise]

Where do you guys get this much copium? Is it wholesale?

[@skree272]

If they release plastic steel legion, id be happy,

[@dist0rted320]

@@skree272 Unfortunately I'd say that's pretty unlikely since they look quite similar to the Death Korps, but yeah that would be really cool!

[@skree272]

@@jervoise ah yes, our bad we want gw to release other gaurd regiments in plastic, we should just live with headswapping Cadians for every other regiment despite gw banning 3rd party bits or models

[@generationne]

Auspex Tactics picking up the classic clickbait miniatures for youtube. A great skill to acquire !

[@iapetusmccool]

My current Catachan army made heavy use of double heavy flamer chimera carrying Straken, Harker, and flamer vets and flamer and plasma special weapon squads. All of which have either been heavily nerfed or outright eliminated by the new codex. No "reroll random shots on vehicles" regiment trait. Two flamers per squad is a massive downgrade from three plus a heavy flamers. And it looks like we're losing the Burn Them Out order too. And 2 hits on a 6 is a downgrade from Straken's +1 attack buff. I expect I'll end up running most of my Catachans as standard infantry with heavy weapons and sniper rifles, taking advantage of Brutal Strength to keep them mobile.

[@richmcgee434]

Maybe a future as proxy burna boyz in an ork army? They sound like they've got the right mindset. How many of them have green camo facepaint already? The boyz will never notice the difference. :)

[@jasongarfitt1147]

I was doing a similar flamer bomb tactic. Straken, priest, special weapons squad full of flamers and command squad of flamers+heavy flamers in a chimera

[@benfellsfive9664]

inb4 every catachan army is totally counts-as cadian shock troops because they're already better than regular infantry and throne knows better than catachan jungle fighters. And I don't blame em. EDIT: I've heard elsewhere that the kit has enough bitz to double-up on special weapons, allowing them to double up likewise. Huge if true.

[@lightningwolf788]

I think the mixed regiment idea stems from how they just changed Skaven in AoS to be similar. It feels a lot more jarring for an organized military vs a jibbering horde of ratmen though.

[@sanninjiraiya]

The guard are pretty poorly organized in the lore so it makes some sense.

[@sanninjiraiya]

@Nachzehrer's Death Knell The codex makes it explicitly clear that the guard are deliberately broken up in such a way that it requires an immense amount of cooperation between different regiments and factions in order to get ANYTHING done. The deliberate inefficiency and internal rivalries that are cultivated by this are a direct consequence of the Horus Heresy and intended to prevent anyone from accruing too much political or military power to stage a rebellion. That is a core part of the grimdark of the faction, they could be the most potent fighting force in the galaxy but because of the way they're organized (subset within an Imperium that doesn't care about human life), they are doomed to struggle because it is those in power see it as just as if not more important to prevent rebellion than to perform on the battlefield out of fear of internal revolt.

[@blecao]

​@Nachzehrer's Death Knell no, really no A guard infantry regiment has nothing more that infantry no ligth veicules artillery or anything that is no how modern units are organiced

[@blecao]

@Nachzehrer's Death Knell The thing is that is quite diferent, a modern unit on what is a basic formation is designed to be more or less selfreliant, on 40k it is the oposite there is nothing near being selfreliant A usa brigade (as is the nation you use as an example) Has Infantry batallions cavalry squadrons artillery batteries And diferent support sections such as engineers specialiced antitank company and all the support for logistics and even a inteligence company This is a all around force that can operate on its own a infantry regiment of 40k has infantry and some abhumans and comisars atached

[@blecao]

@Nachzehrer's Death Knell the denomination shanges a lot on history I took brigade becouse is more or less a basic unit

[@urzasungei988]

Wondering about the rumoured Tanith models for the snipers.

[@dustingierz4357]

Tanith First and Last

[@kalamander8563]

@@dustingierz4357 First and Only!

[@TheKSL25]

Now that's a rumour that's definitely nonsense 😂 never happening

[@Virakotxa]

Would make sense to give infiltration to those Rambo's ..

[@oakessw]

Considering how bad that catachan datasheet looks on the face of it I can only assume they just want to phase them out as a product. Buffing any guardsmen for melee is just a total waste of time and making them more expensive is just a needless kick in the balls.

[@owenthomas5103]

I like the ability to mix and match if only because I get tired of painting everything the same. Also I feel like killteam is a very good thing for giving us interested 40k squads and always look forward to seeing there rules.

[@GooberDragon]

I am still disappointed that the Armageddon Steel Legion are getting no support, especially with Yarrik now gone :(

[@icklemoo]

Wait for white dwarf army of reknown in 2023 most likely 😂 plus a new model of yarrick most likely

[@samjsnz]

I think this is a good thing, can just pick and choose the best rules for them to represent, if there's no veterans but can take shock troops with 2 special weapons and ability to disembark after moving then who cares

[@jervoise]

@@samjsnz or they could of just kept the subfaction. But no, the guard had to replace them all with a make your own that every faction in the game already had.

[@maciekwilkosz6377]

Heh, I was flirting with an idea of starting a guard army, but I want Catachans and they not only are getting no new models. They also get crapy rules... ThinkI will pass.

[@Lighthawk1986]

If you don’t mind third party models then Wargames Atlantic have the spacenam box.

[@noirerequiemii101]

@@Lighthawk1986 they are alright, but not exactly Catachans

[@s2korpionic]

I'm going for the jungle fighters.

[@phyrexiasfinest473]

The fact you can’t take a shovel as a weapon choice for krieg is criminal

[@vice1219]

I demand shovels for the shovel god

[@rbddet]

it is rumored that each troops would get extra regiment traits. Ex: krieg would get cult of sacrifice, making their extra resiliance more usefull. Still, it seems the basic troops will still be king

[@Silverdragon83X]

PRetty sure they get their regiment rules and cannot choose another regiment. So I think it's nice that the existing kits get own rules, plus one generic unit...

[@auspextactics]

That would be cool if true, might make up for the shortfall for the Krieg and Catachans potentially?

[@thesheeteels8252]

This doesn’t bode well for Brood Brothers. I bet GSC will only have access to the generic squad. Since they are losing special, Conscript and Vet squads, unless they get Auxilia AND rough riders, things are looking a bit bleak and dull, ruleswise.

[@fiole666]

yes. But let's keep in mind, that the broodbrothers rule (taking units from Guard Codex) could be a short term solution to make the GenCult faction more accessible. It is still a very young range.

[@danielwhitmee8256]

@@fiole666 Brood Brothers are only used for 2 things. Flavour, and armor. Having a guard detachment capped at 25% of your army total really means you don't want to waste it on chaff like infantry, unless you want to make a nice fluffy army. Tanks and heavy weapon teams are what you are taking for any kind of competitive benefit.

[@thesheeteels8252]

Points taken, I was thinking mostly about the models I have and how I can use them to make something thematic. If I were to think about using conscripts now, I’d just take a 20man blob of neophytes with only autoguns. It’s funny, I’ve had a Guard army since end of sixth ed and it was the demo charges and mass shotguns that drew me to the Cult since,over the editions, special weapon and vet squads stopped being able to take DCs and vets and their shotguns moved to Elites.

[@fiole666]

@@thesheeteels8252 That's the spirit, we adapt I guess, fiding new paths. Good idea. i just finished 20 Conscripts so I guess yes they are in fact Neophytes ;-)

[@thesheeteels8252]

It’s been like this a long time. I had an Inquisition army back before seventh and that army is spread across about four different codices now. Reformatting the army and eking out a bit more use from my old models is par for the course now. It’s sort of the opposite of chasing the Meta, more like ‘what can you be now, blood bowl human blitzer?’

[@Lorditalian]

If Catachans get boned like that I saved myself a ton of money.

[@Ghastly_Grinner]

It sucks that the cool & interesting flavors of guard are lesser than the boring cadians

[@iamnotglenn]

The Krieg squad are worth it if with the medkit if it eats up 2 attacks. Also maybe medkit related stratagem?

[@Bluecho4]

I think this situation evolved directly from GW's new policy of only giving stats for models they explicitly sell. They currently sell Cadian Shock Troops, Catachans, and Kriegsmen. So they've all been given distinct rules, in addition to generic Guard infantry.

[@jervoise]

But they also decided that meant that had to squat units they didn’t have to, like veterans and conscripts.

[@navitgator16]

The trade off with guard is high firepower/large numbers to offset low durability. While the firepower is better I dont know if itll make up for the points increase of every unit in the codex lowering the overall numbers when durability is the about the same.

[@grawr09382]

Leman russes went down in pts considerably, especially since u can get the firepower of a 195 pt TC for 150 now. On top of that Lemans can play primary and objs so infantry are kinda redundant.

[@rex1buster]

As someone who plays a pure infantry death korps army I was hoping for something a lill more like maybe greniders being usable again

[@KH-my5tr]

Yeah pretty disappointed with what we got for them

[@zachdrake8564]

This codex feels like the inverse of CSM, where they got 0 customization options and this one seems to have basically no standard options. Strange

[@roymchunter9401]

I just want Valhallan Ice warriors man

[@kyleboulier2272]

I'm a big fan of DoK, so any support for them is welcomed, although I can definitely see how some guard players would be concerned from these first impressions.

[@missivory_missraine]

Hey we've had the WORST rules when it came to last edition. I don't wanna hear them bitching because we had the suck since the compendium release. Engineers got the bat. Cav was meh. All of our flavor units are gone. And our orders were nonexistent.

[@wizard0313]

Even with the free upgrades, it's gonna be really tough with how expensive they are compared to how easily they can all get wiped in a single turn...

[@fox21231]

Infantry are far worse than they are now, they cost an additional 5 pts and lose the free plasma pistol and power sword on the sergeant. Orders overall are worse too, the fall back and shoot order being moved to commissar orders is a big deal.

[@tommothedog]

the picture of the battlebox with the Cadian army has a picture of the drum fed autogun on the seargeant in the back

[@HighlandPhoenix]

Are we to expect a separate Catachan supplement or regiment of renown to actually run a jungle fighters list properly…with actual re-sculpted models?! We’ve only been waiting decades GW… Cos otherwise how can GW muck them up so badly? 😢

[@MattTrussell]

It looks like they just increased the cost of each squad by 5 for each special weapon it can take, so they're not really free. You don't get the option any more to take them barebones for cheaper. I'm hoping that changes in the real codex when it releases.

[@Romeo_Delta]

GW really did put minimum effort into the Guard codex if the leaks are to be believed.

[@guruvedra]

Lord solar take all effort.

[@Jomi91]

3:33 retro Cadians used for graphical illustration. How quaint!

[@fiole666]

It's too early for a tactica. What's the point ? We don't have the full rules. Same thing for the tanks comparaison.

[@linhle8294]

Mordian Iron Guards, Armageddon Iron Legion, Vostroyans, Vahallan, Catachan, etc. HEEDS MY CALLS

[@thomasaquinas1457]

I feel like the Krieg will skew against some army’s like knights, blood angels and armies s that bring a lot of high strength shooting.

[@justinius2170]

Str 6 and above they will be superior defensively

[@Ottakazi]

Are the Valhallan Ice warriors still a thing? That's really my only question. Likely to just be a Regimental trait but im curious how they will be effected with Orks loosing green tide and Valhallan basically having the same strat but with guards men

[@comradechad7378]

Well, the Valhallan regimental doctrine is still in the codex but it got nerfed. They also by extension have a 1cp stratagem with a good amount of potential called 'Acceptable Losses' I believe.

[@gdenight]

It's definitely scary how they've taken out some of our best stuff. Makes me think what we gain isn't going to equate t o our loses

[@Bluecho4]

Such is life, in the Guard.

[@grawr09382]

Leman russ+horse spam is gonna be busted. 150pts for similar firepower to a 8e 195 pt TC, access to 5 model obsec en masse, T8W13 2+. Horses are also one of the best melee in game, beating out sororitas repentia by a mile.

[@loshombre2926]

Serious question: when is GW going to stop playing army meta roulette? Asking for a friend.

[@ronanobrien88]

Pity there is not option to take heavy flamers, snipers or demo charges which were always catachan staples. Not competitive at all really in previous editions, I was hoping they would get a return to form. Kinda seems like a waste of ink printing such a weak data sheet into the codex. Will run mine as bog standard infanty it seems

[@mitchverr9330]

Krieg too IIRC for the heavy flamer/demo stuff depending which edition you look at. (and their twin heavy stubber teams)

[@tman2902]

It all depends on how Platoon keywords work. Sucks for my Catachans with more then flamers

[@jasongarfitt1147]

Can't use my catachan heavy flamers anymore :(

[@shanehudson3995]

I'd like to know why every squad but Krieg lack med packs.

[@adrioss2979]

I think that has to do with their models being from a kill team branded box, I don't know much about kill team but I think the med kit is specific to it

[@mastersimmons9001]

No med pack in the kit, I assume. And we all know how GW feels about things not being in the kit

[@robertstrong6798]

I agree cadian work best , my traitor guard look Cadian any way. Not sure if I like this or not

[@xenomorphman3380]

But still no word on if we are getting new mini's of other regiments. Where are my plastic Steel Legion?

[@stevenschnepp576]

I think the Krieg box is the best we'll get, especially with Yarrick going the way of happiness.

[@YaboitheCadian]

Did they remove the Hammer of the Emperor rule? (auto-wound on 6s)

[@ww2destroyer]

No, but I've heard that if you take it, you can't have regimental doctrine traits.

[@quadcannon]

That’ll show me for getting my hopes up. I expected better from GW, considering they now have a wider range of plastic models and regiments to do things with. Here’s hoping this new codex doesn’t last as long as the previous.

[@Hy93Ri0n]

And Armageddon is shafted again

[@chrisjones6792]

I really wish the death corps could take heavies. Camping backling objectives with long ranged guns and tougher bodies would be pretty cool.

[@raidensgift5739]

It feels like there just more expensive assault Infantry with higher durability then cadians and a potential higher damage output do to the extra special weapon, encouraging them to March right into the thick of things

[@fistimusmaximus6576]

Can you still focus on 1 type? say trying for a themed death Korp?

[@duppyman9025]

Yeah, you can go all Krieg.... as an army it still looks better!

[@Orrissan]

Yea, you can also probably call one type another. Death Korp with all their FW sculpts could have themed Assault squads and regular squads. Long as you have a way to ID that these are this and those are that at a glace you good. Maybe say, blood splatter and a red shoulder pad on the Assault ones.

[@fistimusmaximus6576]

@@duppyman9025 Yeah I personally dislike missmached armies with detachments from other races/factions, Purist and personally enjoy theme.

[@osamaobama879]

Well done Report. I like how u are processing the new Rules. For the Codex... I dont know, Guardsmen cost more points and can do less. That gives me a stale feeling. If i see Kabalite Warriors ork Orkboys etc. basic infantry stattlines and than guardsmen, and than u look at the points. It gives me more and more the feeling GW hates the Guard, given them Rules to be barely playable....

[@Allofmynamestaken]

Not quite sure why they didn't just keep rules but designate them by their roles. Ex: Normal Guardsmen, Shock Trooper/Grenadier and Recon/Scout Guardsmen. That way you'd be able to deploy as a single guard regiment but with a more realistic mix of different formations.

[@LeCharles07]

Yeah, this seems like they just gave up. Instead of sending a company from a regiment to fight, let's create a mixed company by taking 1 squad from 6 regiments-because fuck your logistics Imperial Navy. 🤦‍♂

[@grimaldi9572]

Its sad to See them making it overcomplicated again.

[@fiole666]

Exacly, this sounds complicate. maybe the actual platoon will make sense. Not if if we can mix regiments inside a same platoon^^

[@LeCharles07]

Oh and don't forget this is 9th so every regiment will have 2998 strategems in addition to the army and core ones.

[@LeCharles07]

@@fiole666 One would hope but we'll see.

[@Spundervius]

As we pretend that Hammer of the Emperor and ignoring the downsides of indirect fire. Free wargear in the infantry squads is a biggly upgrade to keep and also likely armor of contempt. To say they got bad or side graded is wrong

[@Reaver70]

as a Catachan since 1998 I am mightily pissed off. Characters and Strats better be good... or I am pulling out the 45 beret monopose for the next 3 years.

[@daneilfranklin]

So how I would change the Catachan is higher toughness instead of strength. I feel like that would work for them what you guys think?

[@LewisB3217]

Both, they should be stronger too imo, or maybe better ballistic / weapon skill

[@Thundor55]

I don’t know if I hate the FRFSRF order. I can see some real uses out of transitioning rapid firing at half range but I’m assuming at least for what we know you would get 3 shots a man at the full 24 inch range. That seems like another tool in the kit. Maybe not as awesome as rolling like 100 dice a squad like the old days but it still has some uses.

[@decius1000]

FRFSRF would be quite useful if the army keeps the Hammer of the Emperor rule where 6's to hit auto-wound. Frankly, if a lasgun doesn't roll that 6 to hit so it auto-wounds, it's likely not doing much anyway. With FRFSRF, you can fish for more 6s. Even if you moved and your 3 Heavy shots are only hitting on 5s, doesn't matter, you only wanted 6's anyway.

[@Harry-xd2ey]

If they gave catachan jungle fighters +1 s or a special knife with +1s -1ap 1 damage would be all that they would need

[@DarrinSK]

Drum fed autogun? YOU MEAN A THOMPSON SUB MACHINE GUN??!?!?

[@elfhririn]

If they just came out with a few infantry squad kits for different regiments people would be ALL OVER THEM! As a marketer, I just don't get it! (I don't even play guard lol)

[@stevenschnepp576]

I'd be okay with a few less redundant Marine kits and a few more of the Guard flavors - and my main army is Marines!

[@samvimes117]

Maybe it's more to do with logistics and shelf space than anything else

[@iamnotglenn]

Logistics. It takes a few weeks to have a new sculpt ready so unless they do kill teams in the various guard flavors so they can crank that price again it’s not happening. Seeing as we’ve already had generic guard rules, tempestus scions rules, krieg, and now cadian kasrkin I’d say that’s the route they’re taking with it.

[@sergeiyamagoro431]

Why is the points cost going up when they were already pretty meh?

[@morcar8991]

Seems like I field my Catachans as Cadians and my Armageddon Steel Legion as Cadians. Finally I am ably to play fluffy without any disadvantages. GW hit the nail on its head. gg

[@danielwhitmee8256]

Catachans, if they get terrain rules which is kind of expected, could be really good close ambushers. Traps to discourage charges, twin flamers plus las to put out up to 20 shots, followed by a charge. Yeah its not going to slaughter Marines, but it might upset LoV.

[@taosterlord157]

Any chance sergeants can take lasguns now? It's an option in the box...

[@decius1000]

Right? I've yearned for full lasgun squads for several editions, but the Sarge always needs to have a useless sword and pistol for some reason. Glad to hear the Cadian Sarge can take a rifle of some kind, but I have doubts it'll synergise with Lasgun buffs like FRFSRF and the exploding 6's. Sigh...

[@tomyorke3412]

Been playing guard since 3rd edition GW seems to be killing off fluffy lists getting rid of vets and so on and limiting you for one of each special weapon i play for fun not for hard core must win tournament play i dont think ill be picking up the new guard some of the modules look good but the guard have lost to much that made them fun Yarrick, Creed and all the other heroes from past codexs they just dont seem to be fun and fluffy anymore and you think of the up roar if they killed off Marneus Calgar. GW dont really seem to care about the guard much

[@Lighthawk1986]

Being one of the last books really doesn’t help me want to buy in on these. 10th is pretty much a sure thing for summer.

[@sarico7827]

Hmmm so I got alot of old guard and kinda squads set up for 1 heavy weapon and special weapon I'll need to redo my squads/lists.

[@FortuneFaded2006]

Whelp, I'll just put my 90s metal Catchans away again.

[@russelkblaik7527]

Is it wrong that I now want to do a siege army with the rules for the basic infantry as basic trencher, the cadians as veterans, the catachans as trench sweepers and the death corps as sappers......

[@SmashingPixels]

why did catachan lose their S4? gosh darn it GW

[@pixelgoat7317]

Aw, shucks. I miss dropping loads o' 50 point schmucks with futuristic pea-shooters all over the map and still have room for plenty o' mass produced imperial armor. "Game over, man!"

[@youtubevanced4900]

They need to make it so guard heavy weapons squads get character protection so you can actually take them.

[@tanksniper380]

If these changes are true they seem really poor and half arsed. I'm sure this could've been handled so much better. I'd have kept infantry squad as it is, introduced a veteran shock troop that can take two special weapons that they can double up with and made catachan jungle fighters a seperate unit that can do cool traps or mine stuff alongside being able to take 3 or 4 flamers

[@DennisW91]

If they get extra hits on 6, can they still autowound on 6 aswell?

[@MarcinObuchowski]

if we still get 6s to hit auto wound, one auto wounds, the other does not. That's how those rules go in general in other armies.

[@HamSlammich]

For the guardsmen going up 5 points, do we know if the heavy weapons are added or replace 2 guardsmen? It makes sense if you add the heavy weapons and get a squad of 12 for the points increase.

[@richmcgee434]

I don't think we've seen definite confirmation one way or the other, not that anything in a playtest codex could be definite anyway. Interesting idea though, and if they do turn out to be an extra two bodies in the squad it would neatly fill a Chimera.

[@Waagghhboy]

That DKK point cost means you're very unlikely to field a infantry heavy list since you're paying the equivalent of a first born space marine essentially. Pretty disappointing that cadians will still run the meta

[@Bearyboo87]

Would not the Krieg rule somewhat allow you to spam charged plasma a bit more?

[@HostileGG]

When i discovered warhammer 40k, as a kid, my favourite army was the imperial guard, because of their very realistic military look, and their regiments. Tallarn, Mordians, etc. they all looked good. Almost 25 years later and now we only have Cadians, Cadians everywhere ... With a terrible new look imo ... It's so fucking sad.

[@desgildanphi8825]

Cadian shock troop seem to be the best

[@Feralhyena]

They're going to be so mad when I roll up to a tourney running nothing but Necromunda Gangers and Vehicles, Atillan Jackals, and Tanks, and say that the majority of my Troops are Death Korps.