Hacking A Motorcycle Is.. Challenging! Indian Scout

[@RogueCheddar]

Brandon, your growth from shadetree mechanic to electrical engineer has been stunning! I envy your insatiable curiosity and patience in all the work you have accomplished. Thank you for sharing with us your amazing journey.

[@BrandonBicasso]

Taking it all by one day. It will take me time to figure it out but I'm determined!

[@BrandonBicasso]

Baudrate not Bitrate but same thing to the masses. Still working on it tho but also still learning how it all works. 🤙🏾

[@theblastermaster5590]

Great video. I have a 23 Chief ABS which has the analog screen. I REALLY want to upgrade to Ride Command. The dealer said it was impossible as an additional cable is needed to the engine. I think you proved that's BS. I am VERY interested in your progress. You are quite a smart guy. Love your videos.

[@BrandonBicasso]

I can make a video about that. It is bs. Bike doesn’t need ride command or a screen period to operate. Yes, to change the modes, navigation, see the diagnostics etc but if you disconnected the screen, it will turn on and ride without it.

[@wraymogg]

It's bullshit. In your case is a plug & play conversion. What they meant probably is that you need a different USB cable and the GPS antenna to plug in the new ride command. As soon as you plug it in and power the bike, it will write your VIN in the new ride command, but I don't know what happens if you try to update the maps based on that VIN... I would really like to know...

[@BrandonBicasso]

@@wraymogg That is something I have not done is update the maps between bikes. I have swapped the ride command screen between bikes no problem also.

[@SwagSo7fly7]

@@BrandonBicassoto add ride command to a standard chief how much of an investment would it be?

[@fbr947]

Would love to see the progress you make. I’ve been wanting to do the digital screen on my 24 scout for a while! Looks like you’re getting there for sure!

[@williammurray6234]

I’ve watched that particular bike before 2022 when it finally came out I bought it and I bought the top of the line the Indian scout rogue and it doesn’t even have the digital cluster. It was one said that they was never making it when they unveiled the new Indian scout it’s on that one good luck and I’m gonna keep watching because you still explain everything very very well it would be nice if they came out for a later model good luck

[@sparkyastwo]

Brandon; keep at it bro!

[@timothygreen1519]

Fabulous work Brandon! 👏👏👏

[@joewaun894]

Id love to see someone take EVERYTHING off if a new scout (electric components) and try to put it on the old scout and see if it runs. I bet most of the sensors would be the same Gear position. Coolant temp and stuff

[@BrandonBicasso]

I'm sure it would. The only things that wouldn't work are the power modes, but a third party ECM and rewire of the bike with each sensor could make all of it work. I wanted to do that with Chief. It's just so expensive at the moment.

[@sway0221]

Maaaaaaaaaaaaaan, sounds like you trying to teach me math! I'm just here for the entertainment..😅😅😅 good luck bruh.

[@Carbibbles]

There is an acknowledge bit that all modules respond with whenever a message is sent. This is probably causing a conflict because of the baud difference. RX/TX errors will accumulate and modules will disconnect from the network. I would set up a micro controller that has 2 can bus nodes to receive all messages at 250k and retransmit at 500k on the other node, it's likely the gauge doesn't transmit anything so you just need to get the 250k messages to it at 500k. If the message ids and packet format matches the chief it should work without any other modification. If message id or packet structures are different then you can set your micro to translate when it passes the 250k through to 500k.

[@BrandonBicasso]

That's the idea that makes the most sense. It feels more code related now than anything. The screen does transmit some data on Chief, but nothing important for this generation of Scout (power modes). Will take me a bit to get it all working but I think it's doable. When I do get it, will release everything so others can possibly replicate it. Even with it working, you're still out at least a thousand to get the screen and gps modules.

[@1905flyer3]

Excellent Brandon! Let me know when you figure out installing the Ride Command in a ‘17 Springfield. 👍🏻

[@BrandonBicasso]

If we get this working on Scout, it will work on the others. Just a matter of changing the messages to fit Springfield (which I'm sure are similar given they use similar sensors)

[@allthekidsareright]

The milage is stored in the speedo on the scout. Replace the speedo lose the milage. If you figure this out I’ll be pumped I’ve been wanting to do this as well.

[@sparkyastwo]

So, in theory we need to find a salvaged/wrecked ‘25 Scout and play Dr. Frankenstein? Swap over a few parts and maybe it will work? I’ll start checking Coparts.

[@BrandonBicasso]

I wish it were that easy lol

[@joewaun894]

I really think that they FTR square digital gauge will work on the old scouts

[@BrandonBicasso]

Depends on if the clock rates are the same. If so. It would plug right up no problem. Uses the same connectors though. If the clock rate isn’t the same, shuts it down like I’m experiencing now. Maybe the first gen FTR screen would work.

[@wraymogg]

The baud rate is auto-negotiable, but that is not the problem. The data frames are different. Not all, some of them. You will not get the RPM or the speed, usually these data frames varies a lot between models. But most of the other data frames are identical to most of the Indian models. Even with Cheiftains. So sadly no, without a "man-in-the-middle" data frame conversion, you cannot use the FTR digital gauge.

[@joewaun894]

@@wraymogg I'm talking about the first gen FTR dash. I really think it would work. Because the first gens came with the same dash as the 2015+ scout id be willing to plug it into my scout to figure it out but I need to find a dash to try it out on

[@joewaun894]

@@BrandonBicasso yea I'm talking about the first gen FTR digital "square" dash. Seeing as they also came with the same dash as the 2015+ scout (analog round one) I just had to replace the dash in my scout and I saw one of the ftr dashes in eBay for $400. Almost got it but I don't really have the money to drop on that on a whim. Id also love to see the entire harness off a new scout transplanted onto the old scout. Or as much as possible I wonder if the new ECU can run the old engine I doubt allot of the sensors would be different

[@wraymogg]

@@joewaun894 You can always try, but I did tested my wife's FTR 2022 with the square dash, and has different frames. Plug wise they all fit, but ECU is sending different frame ids and is formatting the data differently. Scout's RPM frame is different from the FTR's frame, while on Scouts the RPM is on D6-D7 bytes, on FTR is on D0-D1, and has different frame Id...

[@dakingzview8198]

Good stuff, my guy, you keep at it and crack the code. Figure out how we can get that cruise control.🤞🤞

[@saliston]

WOW that was interesting that Scout is going to be beautiful

[@chrishunter5041]

Wow Brandon you need to apply for the next level pay grade 👌

[@shrugger1]

WEW! You're not paying me near enough to work that one out.

[@BrandonBicasso]

And I'm doing it for free haha

[@seprohelpmexico4550]

All the nodes have to be set up, at least you have a can analyzer. I think you need to eliminate the nodes you dont have on the scout on the ridecommand so it doesnt look for those, the can might be open so no communication, not sure how you will be able to do that, keep up the great content.

[@BrandonBicasso]

That's a great thought too. I'm gonna set up a canbus between two devices off the bike and tinker with it. I'll have to set up a converter to transmit 250K frames to 500K. Once that's done.. we're golden.

[@Shredmasterfunk2612]

Hey brandon, you think the inverted forks and front end of the new scout 101 could be made to fit an older scout?

[@BrandonBicasso]

Of course. The new Scouts (Classic, Bobber, Super) use the same triples/forks off the old Scout. You’d have to buy the 101 upper/lower triples, risers, forks, wheel, calipers to make it all cohesive. Totally would work.

[@Shredmasterfunk2612]

@@BrandonBicasso that’s awesome dude, thanks! Maybe I’ll set out to be the first to do that conversion, unless you beat me to it 👍🏼

[@JohnBhaktul]

Brandon, you are a natural hacker! :) But serious question, is there any aftermarket digital display that can be installed on the older Scouts?

[@BrandonBicasso]

I’ve loosely researched it once I hit a few walls dealing with this retro fit. I haven’t found anything similar to the Chief/‘25 Scout set up. There are analog options that could possibly work.

[@snowmanrainmaker]

Bottom line is is there incompatible because they were built not to be compatible you see if you want the new s*** you got to buy a new bike and that's what they want. Honestly I don't think you'll ever get it to work. Besides that this is giving me a headache just watching

[@BrandonBicasso]

I agree. Could’ve been made to work but this way by design to force an upgrade. Making it work out of the box would be too easy.

[@sparkyastwo]

If you’re getting a headache, don’t watch and don’t troll. In your mindset, H-D components are incompatible with each other? So, manufacturers don’t share the same parts to cut down on production costs? So inverted forks from an FTR won’t fit on an older Scout? Why do we have custom builders? C’mon man!

[@snowmanrainmaker]

​@@sparkyastwohey why don't you kiss my you know what

[@wraymogg]

You don't get the data any more because of the terminal 120 ohm resistance, if you put the logger just as another CAN node, you will get data again. I almost finished this project, but I am lazy as hell and since I bought the new 101, I lost my determination to finish the project. Let me tell you what I did. I mapped all the frame data from Chief and Scout, I wrote a C++ software to translate the different frames from all the different Indian models (FTR, Chief, Spriengfield, Scout), then I designed a 4 layer PCB around LPC54628J512ET180 and wrote the software for it. I also integrated the analog signals (oil presure, hi beam, button and fuel sensor). I also added a HM-18 module for bluetooth communication with pressure sensor caps, and a SHT31 temperature sensor to get the ambiental temperature. I also put an ADS1115 for future messing with a proper fuel sensor, but I didn't wrote any code for it yet. Everything was working perfectly with the beta test design, I designed another 6 layer PCB, to make it even smaller, made for a water proof casing, with tunneling for the temperature sensor but then I stopped. One thing that drove me crazy, and messed with my mind was this: initially I bought a brand new dash - it's the same code for Chief and FTR (and maybe for the new Scout), it came with the Chief firmware that seems is the default firmware. The limitation is the 6k RPM, and the missing engine temperature, so I bought an used FTR dash (or ride command how do you call it). Everything was perfect until one day, when magically reset to default and reverted to Chief firmware - WTF happened!!! I really don't know... Now I have 2 Chief dashes... Ah, another thing, it will not fit perfectly in the Scout mounting because of the custom plug position. I ordered the new scout jug and riser, but it remain to be seen if they fit the old Scout. I guess if I lived in US, I would have paid you a visit, but I live in Europe, so no chance :)) Maybe this winter I will overcome my laziness and finish it...

[@BrandonBicasso]

That's a lot of great info, Fam. The idea on the resistor is interesting. The only way I was able to read data for a moment is changing the baudrate to what the CAN wanted. The screen does have a resistor in it as the ECM. I do know this is more of a code issue for translating the frames, but I will try putting the logger in a listen only mode to see what happens. So I understand.. the 120 ohm resistor onboard the Arduino is causing issues with the CAN? With one in the screen, ECM and the Arduino, that would increase the resistance more than the 60 ohm between HI and LOW which could cause issues?

[@wraymogg]

@@BrandonBicasso The end resistor is there to address the impedance given by the twisting of the wires. Every node should be terminated in a 120 ohm between HI and LO. My advice is to check if the logger has 120 ohm between HI and LO when placed on the OBD plug. If it doesn't work, ditch the Arduino and get a proper logger like CL1000.

[@wraymogg]

@@BrandonBicasso The dash itself is also transmitting some data frames, but since the ECM will not understand that data, is useless. For example, if you push the Traction control, it will transmit the switch request and wait the confirmation from ECU. What I did was just to listen to these messages and reply to them the acknowledge because otherwise you will be stuck with a wait wheel on the screen, but function wise, is bogus.

[@klaxongreg]

So intelligent

[@orhancebi5288]

Maaa bro ❤

[@BrandonBicasso]

Broooo 🥹

[@P.E.O.ll-RhodesScholarGraduate]

Software 🙄

[@BikesBeardsAndBrews]

time to take a course in the ethical guide to hacking. Then you can make the two talk! lol

[@rsc68er]

Mate just go back to the analogue clock. I'm getting a headache just watching you. 😂. I'm sure you ate too

[@BrandonBicasso]

Haha, you know I take everything further. We have to see how far we can go.

[@geraldscott4302]

That's all jibberish. Motorcycles are supposed to be MACHINES. They have carburetors not computers. This is just one of the reasons why I will never buy a computerized bike.

[@BrandonBicasso]

Can have it both ways. You got carbs, I got fuel injection. 🤙🏾

[@wraymogg]

Ah, one thing, it is transmitting the new odometer to the dash, but you need to run it a little. This message is common for all Indians. Take a freebie from me :) : 0x18FEC100 0xBB 0xEF 0x2D 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 Odometer Little Endian 32 bits D0-D3 (67 45 23 01), 1 bit = 5 meters, D4-D7 - trip counter, Frequency: 100ms

[@BrandonBicasso]

I like freebies. The odometer is a tricky one to find.