Happy Hour #12 - The Invisible Man and Bly Manor (feat. MauLer, Rags and Jay Exci)

Join us as we discuss The Invisible Man, and settle once and for all whether The Haunting of Bly Manor is actually good. Join us!
Subscribe to MauLer: / themauleryt
Subscribe to Rags: / @rags
Subscribe to Jay Exci: / stickman3thousand

[@FoxyFoxlyn]

Rags just interrupts Drinker the entire time. His rudeness was getting on my nerves. You should listen to others opinions Rags, especially when they defer from your own. Don't take it personally when someone doesn't like something, you do like.

[@bjrnhalfhand2258]

Yeah he was being snippy and rude.

[@FoxyFoxlyn]

@@bjrnhalfhand2258 Yeah, really made me dislike him and I like EFAP. He was very flippant with Drinker's points, and just talked over him constantly.

[@JoshuaKevinPerry]

@@FoxyFoxlyn He's like that on EFAP, too. Especially when someone comes on to defend their video. When Mauler's not around, the real Rags is always right comes out.

[@ZaiTsk36756]

@@FoxyFoxlyn watching it right now and it feels like rags is treating drinker like a random person they dragged in from the chat and not someone who is a friend. i'm only about 40 minutes in so far

[@FoxyFoxlyn]

@@ZaiTsk36756 It gets worse. I am surprised Drinker just didn't kick him. If it was my podcast or stream, I would have.

[@Pt_Lacky]

That ‘convenient’ argument that Rags dismisses is really fucking annoying when you consider his views on the same thing in ATLA.

[@johnochiltree1170]

This didn’t get awkward real quick

[@kevinwilson455]

Disagreements are always awkward and not as entertaining as when they all agree.

[@bjrnhalfhand2258]

Rags is a rude, condescending, snippy douche.

[@harry426]

Time stamp?

[@spenser9908]

@@bjrnhalfhand2258 Yeah Rags has no tact and is so uptight. Drinker came off really well here. Patient, collected and amiable.

[@johnochiltree1170]

@@harry426 all of it. Rags just seemed unnecessarily confrontational

[@JMUDoc]

Much as I love the Drinker, I left this one after half an hour. Rags - you are not a solicitor, and those that disagree with you are not hostile witnesses.

[@montalban5673]

Same here, I couldn't stand him and I always listen to Drinkers streams to the end.

[@reaperezekial5168]

Drinker is old school when it comes to debates or discussions - actually listen to the others, let them speak, and make intelligent observations. Rags seems to be of the new school - “I’ll tell you what your opinion should be, and you’ll agree because I’m brilliant.” Clearly only one of these is a useful method.

[@christopheredwards5337]

I'm 20 mins in and I need a break lol. This Rags guy has some fucking hostility towards the drinker about this tv show and it's like wtf is your issue man? I'm about to start a KZbin channel and I love the drinker. I pray he never asks me if I get a high sub count to join on with this guy lol

[@wakerobin9215]

@@christopheredwards5337 what kind of content is going to be on your channel? Media reviews like these or something totally different?

[@christopheredwards5337]

@@wakerobin9215 hey. Like I just watched the 2nd resident Evil cgi movie Damnation with a friend. We fucking loved it. The last of us 2 just got a bunch of game awards which I don't agree with. So shit like that. I bought the collectors edition so I was more pissed off then a lot of people about how fucking bad the game is. I want to have the Drinkers sense of humor and sarcasm. But I don't want to be a carbon copy of him. I think we're all among the same mindset. Gary Nerdrotic. Heels vs babyface. Mauler. I like the same movies these guys do. I hate the movies they do. So I basically want to do reviews in the same I guess attitude as them but not copy you know? Drinker did his Predator review and for fucks sake I've watched that movie 200 times in my life. His review was literally the best I've ever seen. When I get a day off and watch more KZbin videos on how to upload from my iMac I'm doing a predator review but I'm also going to watch his again because I don't want to copy and use the same jokes you know. I've been watching guys like Jeremy on the quartering. I hate what's happening to Johnny Depp so I'll cover shit like that. I have 3 sisters and a cousin who all adore Depp so I'll have them do videos with me as well so it's not some bullshit oh you're a man defending Depp. Like no women hate wtf Heard did to him as well. So I literally worked all day today. Grabbed a beer and watched the movie with my buddy. Getting ready for bed soon. But tomorrow after work I'm doing more homeworks. I know KZbin isn't hard to make videos but what it takes is time and fuck man when you work 60 hours a week it's a pain. Thanks for asking man and when I make my first video it's going to be a last of us 2 review. I'll send you the link. But overall I was just saying the drinker in other videos has SO much fun talking with these guys. It sounded VERY fucking hostile and it legit makes me never want to watch that Bly Manor if people act like that. Like legit of you had criticisms and any of your friends sounded that venomous towards you would you want to rewatch it? I've listened to him at work break for 3 hours Robocop or Terminator or Star Trek 2. THOSE are great videos. This was not fun to listen to at work at all.

[@drdeadbeat1604]

Drinker handled the debate with patience and grace, take notes Rags

[@thevoicej2511]

Was Rags really out of line here? If so, how?

[@drdeadbeat1604]

@@thevoicej2511 from what I remember it's the first half hour where he's acting like a teenager mad at his dad

[@fizzlewick]

@@thevoicej2511 sometimes raggelton is a bit hard to discuss with

[@fizzlewick]

@@thevoicej2511 sometimes raggelton is a bit hard to discuss with

[@garymontgomery3606]

@@thevoicej2511 at one point he said “idk maybe you weren’t paying attention” kind of disparagingly and Mauler tried to intervene

[@michaelgrainger9946]

What's the matter with rags?

[@shaecouture7480]

He can't have a reasonable disagreement like an adult, he has to be snide and condescending.

[@AuXiiLia]

it causes him physical pain when someone disagrees with him on something

[@bjrnhalfhand2258]

Rags is on the rag.

[@deedlessdeity218]

classic NPD

[@winkles2314]

He abandons his principles when it's something he likes

[@winkles2314]

*Summary* Rags, Mauler and Jay: Bly Manor is amazeballs Drinker: Eh it was alright but I had some issues with it. Mauler and Jay: K Rags: REEEEEEEE There, now you can skip past it to: 1:03:31

[@dannyv84oz]

Thank you, was only here for the invisible man chat

[@BaldorfBreakdowns]

I want to hear Rags REEEEEEEEing though

[@happynihilist2573]

please tell that to all other top comments except for the rags part # Rags Did NOTHING WRONG!!!

[@winkles2314]

Happy Nihilist ... apart from being inaccurate, rude and condescending, and interrupting most of the points Drinker made.

[@beardedbjorn5520]

@@happynihilist2573 dude, do you really want to die on this hill? You have replied to every comment being critical to Rags with the same bullshit responses. "He wasn't rude" yes he was. How can you deny that?

[@louiemeister9646]

This stream is explains why rags is my least favourite efap member

[@CatCraine]

I really enjoyed the stream and I'm glad Drinker reuploaded it here. I think you did well taking a stand against Bly, despite being 3-1. I had some specific points of criticism of Bly, but they wouldn't fit in a superchat. So, here goes. SPOILERS: I completely agree with Mauler and Drinker that Hannah's episode, episode number five, was the strongest in the series. It's also why I find the overall quality so baffling. *Major Issues:* There's no way the narrator, Jamie, could have known everything that happened in the flashback of episode eight. -"But, Dani could have told her after she merged with the ghost!" No, because the whole point of episode eight was that Viola was forgetting everything and violently murdering anyone that happened upon her. -"She could've researched it in a book, diary, letter, etc." No, for one we never see any such thing being written. Moreover, then Jamie certainly wouldn't have known any of the things that happened while Viola's soul was trapped in the chest nor how she forgot herself. Deus ex Dani is able to pacify and absorb Viola, the lake ghost, after repeating the mantra she had witnessed earlier. The narrator, at this crucial moment, admits Dani has no idea what she's doing. Moreover, it works, despite Viola not having any motivation to merge with anyone. Convenient, huh. -"But, Dani saw the chant being performed with Peter and Miles." Sure, but the crucial difference is Peter WANTS to merge with Miles. Viola has all but forgotten herself, except her nightly routine. *Minor Issues (what I consider weak writing):* The show frequently breaks the show don't tell rule. This happens several times, but it usually involves a single actor performing a longer monologue about their emotional state. -When Peter confronts his Mother during his flashback. -After Dani merges with the ghost of Viola. -When Jamie delivers her entire backstory to Dani. -When Hannah describes her feelings for Owen when they first met. I'll say the actors are quite talented, but relying on monologues like this is pretty weak, IMO. Especially because you could have shown Dani radically changing to reflect her new inner rage. Reusing scares: Due to the nature of Dani's initial mental issues, we're frequently treated to there's-something-in-the-mirror jumpscares. I think there's about 1 per episode until she finally faces her guilt. Recycling reveals: The reveal of Hannah's body in the well is absolutely masterful in episode five. However, that same reveal is then reused in seven. -"But, Hannah had to be reminded she was dead!" I thought the entire point of episode five was exploring the fact that Hannah WAS dead. And, her coming to grips with that fact. Undercutting Tension: Episode seven ends on a cliffhanger with Dani being dragged by throat. Episode eight opens with this same scene, only to cut all tension by then treating the audience to a nearly hour long flashback that then lands us back before Dani was grabbed. Moreover, Viola's grabbing to kill ratio is completely wonky. She kills Peter after dragging him to another room, Henry is killed nearly instantaneously, but Dani is dragged from the driveway to the top floor. She not only doesn't pass out, but is saved by Flora's intervention. Good thing Dani had a pair of iron lungs and a strong neck. Setup, no payoff: Dani's dead fiancé frequently haunts her until episode 4 when she is finally able to face her own guilt. The episode culminates with her posing the statement "It's just you and me then". He never appears again after this point. Peter and Rebecca's plan to merge with children to leave Bly is interrupted by the lady in the lake. -"But, this was a setup so Dani could say the magic words to pacify Viola." As discussed earlier, I think Dani being able to merge with Viola a major flaw. Miles being weird to Dani early on in the show makes no sense. Why would Miles/Peter want to arouse suspicion by gifting her Rebecca's comb or flowers while touching her inappropriately. -"It was just Miles being confused." Then why wouldn't Peter put a stop to it? He's in Bly, too. -"Because Peter is stuck in the memories" There's a word for that: Convenient. Henry is killed and revived in record time, this is so Hannah can tell him to give Owen her message of Love. Henry is never shown delivering this message, in fact, it doesn't even seem like Owen needs it. When Dani spots Rebecca talking to Flora in episode seven, Rebecca decides to hang around which freaks out Dani. Why wouldn't Rebecca just wink out of existence? -"Because this was part of the plan to knock her out!" Yet, Rebecca doesn't actually want to go through with the plan. Why not string Peter along by disappearing during this opportunity? Moreover, why would the kids and ghosts merge in front of Dani? Why not lock her in the attic and merge in the kids room? The easy answer is because Dani has to witness the mantra, but I already went into why that setup is bunk. A lesson in Biology: Bodies float... sometimes. Rebecca is found floating in the lake, but Dani and Peter for some reason sink to the bottom after their deaths. Convenient. I have a bad feeling about this: The night Henry, the uncle, is finally able to face up to his fears and go to Bly is the night everything is culminating. Sure is lucky those two just happen to align. Jamie and Owen both make it home, both have a prophetic bad dream, and both decide to reconvene and go back to Bly. The simple solution for Jamie and Owen is to change so that they see Henry's car on the way to Bly, then decide to follow him. It's a disconnected phone that finally leads Henry to go to Bly, a bit weak, and I would personally have Hannah answer the phone and tell Henry he has to come to Bly. There's probably more, but this comment's already running quite long. Thanks for reading if you made it this far.

[@samwallaceart288]

Agreed all-around. Thanks

[@fungmeat]

Didn't like the way drinker was treated in this stream. Rags shat on him, whenever he had a differing opinion. Wasn't a great stream. Still think drinker was right. Rags was like Twitter. Agree with me or I’ll abuse you.

[@reval1989]

I dunno, a lot of Drinker's arguments were rather weak. Felt like he was nitpicking at least with Bly Manor

[@jontu3863]

​@@reval1989 kinda like how mauler gets called for nitpicking by smuhlbrains on the youstubes eh? kinda bringing flashbacks. This is one of those points where Rags really does reveal himself to be a guy that likes be a pot calling the kettle black.

[@reval1989]

@@jontu3863 I don't really know anything about the other guys so i'll take your word for it

[@fungmeat]

I respectfully disagree. Everytime drinker tried to put a legitimate and well discussed point across, Raggy rags would either just interrupt and not allow him to finish, or respond with a smart arse, snarky reply that had no facts to support it. I though drinker was extremely patient and respectful. Rags was just being a petulant child because someone would not agree with him.

[@DigiMyst]

Listening to this now, and only 9 minutes in, Rags comes across as a dismissive ass.

[@laban237]

The Drinker fixes: Rags

[@beardedbjorn5520]

Hahahaha,

[@RyuPlaneswalker]

Snip Snip.

[@mrscruffles801]

@@RyuPlaneswalker Huh?

[@sepin3390]

@@mrscruffles801Rag’s pfp is a dog, drinker has a series called “the drinker fixes”, fix is another word for neuter something many dogs experience, put it all together and you’ve got a little jest.

[@mrscruffles801]

@@sepin3390 ewww

[@Cris-ut9pc]

Wow the Drinker was being very kind to all the shit Rags was throwing.... you are a much better human than i am

[@happynihilist2573]

Rags Did NOTHING WRONG!!!

[@CanadianTehGamer]

@@happynihilist2573 Rags did everything wrong.

[@sparkypack]

I totally agree with your comment.

[@theminingbat]

@@CanadianTehGamer no Rags was correct, Drinker was being tism.

[@CanadianTehGamer]

@@theminingbat Except that he wasn't.

[@KrisCasey4]

1:03:31 for Invisible Man talk

[@creatorsfreedom6734]

just what were they talkin about before holy molly

[@definitelynotboromir]

Appreciated.

[@MirandaSinistra]

You are the hero we don't deserve, that first hour was painful to listen to.

[@EasleyDone.]

Thank you so very much.

[@VeegovonDOOM]

Thanks! Hopefully Rags hung up.

[@StriderMack]

Bro, in the beginning I totally thought Rags was being sarcastic, but apparently not :(

[@ToriHiragana]

Maybe Drinker was correct about his points, maybe not (I'm not going to watch it. Read the Turn of the Screw or watch The Innocents, they're great versions of this story) but Rags tone towards him was cringe-inducing. I feel like his ego and attitude have run wild since Wolf left, the 3 of them used to have perfect balance and chemistry.

[@rescuehamster1734]

It's kinda like he took the most negative aspects of Wolf and incorporated them into himself to keep that aspect around.

[@sammydray5919]

@@rescuehamster1734 The difference is that no matter how angry or snide wolf got, he always knew when was the time to be respectful. His JustWrite debate shows that. Disagreement and disrespect can and should be mutually exclusive.

[@yanribeiro7108]

@@sammydray5919 And also, wolf was the only one who called rags out on his bullshit.

[@Heartshapedbox81]

I've heard the legend of this wolf and though I've actually seen a few with him in it (Game of Thrones rant was beautiful) and heard reference to him he was already gone (i'm told because of personal problems) by the time I started watching / listening, but this was two years ago so here's hoping they've gotten some of their sanity back and haven't slipped further down the path of hypocrisy, but yes I've seen plenty of instances where Mauler does that... I'm going to say Lupin thing of not reining in his friends when he knows he should and could when they are doing too much or being petulant.

[@Cartoonman154]

These guys bounce off each other very well when it comes to discussions and criticism. But, Rags can develop a tone that really brings the streams down.

[@beardedbjorn5520]

Almost like he’s a condescending prick or something.

[@Cartoonman154]

@@beardedbjorn5520 Yep

[@winkles2314]

That’s a pretty good take on things yeah.

[@dansullivan2231]

Yeah he's a piece of garbage, I never understood why Mauler lets him hang around

[@willfanofmanyii3751]

@@dansullivan2231 Because he needs defense.

[@superhappyfuntime5466]

I listened to this live but bailed after about an hour because rags and jay are personalities that I just don't care to listen to. I'm sure the next go round will be top tier, as per usual.

[@bjrnhalfhand2258]

I find Rags and Jay to be very unlikable, rude and snippy. Never watched anything with them before. Won't watch anything with them again.

[@notacompleteidiot...1285]

@@bjrnhalfhand2258 I've caught a few EFAPs with Rags and Jay. Also watched a bunch of Jay's channel. First time I've seen Rags come off this way. Jay did seem a bit off, but not dismissive and condescending like Rags. As I commented elsewhere - maybe it was just an off day. 🤷‍♂️

[@winkles2314]

@@notacompleteidiot...1285 This is how Rags operates in a debate when he has more people on his side of the argument. Any Efap where they have a guest on that they disagree with.

[@notacompleteidiot...1285]

@@winkles2314 That's a bummer. 😕

[@beardedbjorn5520]

@@winkles2314 absolutely. Rag’s has been doing this for years. Especially when Mauler is there to defend him.

[@BumLuck]

Rags when there's a contrivance in a show he doesn't like: That's bullshit that would never happen what are the odds it's so contrived Rags when there's a contrivance in a show he does like: Yes that's very unfortunate but I don't see how anyone could possibly have a problem with it.

[@PatrickOMulligan]

Ummm what? Which contrivance in Bly Manor are you referring to?

[@marionmorrison2854]

Just about everything rags says sounds like he thinks he's correcting you on a matter of fact that you don't realize yet. That combo of defensiveness and condescension. Couldn't imagine talking religion or politics with him. Maybe he's just inexperienced or having a rough week.

[@montalban5673]

I agree, he has one of those high handed, I'm so much smarter than you ways of talking. I couldn't get through the stream, which is a first for Drinkers channel. I hope he doesn't have him on again, he was just smug and annoying.

[@CitroenC407]

@@montalban5673 Drinker is one of the best things to happen to KZbin for a long time. I love listening to his views (whether I agree with them or not is irrelevant) as he has a brilliant way of breaking things down and really explains himself well. But these other two spoiled my enjoyment of this stream considerably. Wouldn't let him talk. Kept trying to drown him out when he was making his point (many times after he was *asked* for his opinion). I'm skipping this one. Hopefully much more respectful and insightful guests on the next stream.

[@montalban5673]

@@CitroenC407 Drinker does say that he does read his comments, and it's not just us that have complained about him, almost every other comment is complaining about him. I doubt he'll have him back anytime soon if he's this unpopular. I would however enjoy seeing Rags try going up against a member of the Fandom Menace that would not be so polite in taking his smug bullshit!

[@creatorsfreedom6734]

why is Rags on Efap soo much , he used to talk about some intresting things on his own channel - now rags has been leeching off of Mualer's shhtick for a long time

[@beardedbjorn5520]

@@creatorsfreedom6734 oh big time. He’s leeching off those superchats like they’re going out of fashion. Tonnes of people have brought this up on EFAP as well, he just rambles about how he’s been working on a big Mandalorian video. But he hasn’t been making content long before that show aired.

[@jameswallace756]

Tried listening but had to quit when Rags kept interrupting.

[@nucleargibbon]

I normally love these long Drinker discussions, but Rags really ruins this one. I was already yelling at my screen for him to shut up after just 10 minutes... it’s SO annoying when someone’s constantly butting in and interrupting someone else on a format like this.

[@jonarbuckle778]

Barely made it to 30 minutes and this whole stream feels so uncomfortable already, this isn't so much a discussion as it is a 3v1 debate against the Drinker which is incredibly unfair, considering it is his stream and he is the host. That's not to say his guests can't disagree, but the tones of a lot of people here were condescending and passive-aggressive if he didn't agree.

[@PieterdeNijsFMP]

Jay was actually willing to engage with Drinker, Mauler was a bit laid back, but fine, Rags should have just done something else, he wasn't there to have a discussion.

[@solarsailer4166]

I've been impressed with how MauLer treats his own guests, especially those who are either difficult and /or are very difficult to debate because the cannot express themselves adequately. My favourite example is the JustWrite EFAP. Wolf was clearly losing his cool, but had the sense to keep quiet and MauLer was extremely polite and even toned. I wish Rags would follow Wolf's example in this regard.

[@Brad2325]

Yeah. I got a real strong "you're wrong because we disagree" vibe from that guy. Which (goes without saying) is super annoying.

[@happynihilist2573]

PLEASE EXPLAIN HOW EXACTLY HAS RAGS BEEN ACTION ANY WORSE THAN JAY OR MUBSHLY!!! Why does everyone here say that!

[@ouroboros5793]

@@happynihilist2573 You must be autistic if you really don't understand. I've seen you post in other threads for this video. You're either a superfan of Rags, and think he's a saint. Or you're autistic and don't understand social interactions very well.

[@rindoubaka1574]

@@solarsailer4166 Yeah, Rags just goes into a debate to win, not to actually debate. I don't think I've ever seen him concede anything. Problem is that hardly anyone wants to watch a passive aggressive shouting match, most people just want to hear the discussion.

[@ogscarl3t375]

Kinda got the feeling the other 3 really ganged up on Drinker here, honestly drinker you made entirely fair points with your criticism :)

[@notacompleteidiot...1285]

I agree. It's a bit odd to see them go all Mean Girls on him. They've gotten along on EFAPs before like a house on fire. Unfortunately, I've never seen, or heard of, the show they're talking about. Makes it hard to determine who is legitimately in some semblance of "right". 2 of them I'm not fans of and the other 2 I greatly enjoy. Predicaments. 🤷‍♂️

[@lordofdarkness4204]

@@notacompleteidiot...1285 let me guess... you liked Mauler and Drinker, but don’t like Rag’s and Jay.

[@notacompleteidiot...1285]

@@lordofdarkness4204 Yup. 🤷‍♂️

[@SFTaYZa]

@@lordofdarkness4204 well, no one likes jay.

[@tacituskilgore2316]

@@lordofdarkness4204 haha same

[@jackcowden2651]

I heard Rags once say that “being smug and correct is a +1, but being smug and incorrect is a -5” I love all these guys, but they kinda came across as arrogant film snobs here. This wasn’t as bad as something like EFAP 84, but they seem to get weirdly passive aggressive whenever someone thinks differently about Bly Manor. And whenever someone is able to provide reasoning for them not liking it, they just condescendingly write them off by saying stuff like “You have bad standards then,” or “good luck calling other stuff good then,” or “I’m sorry you’re too stupid to understand it.” And considering how much good EFAP has done for discussion of film and tv, it’s kinda tough to see when they act like this.

[@helios4753]

Mauler and Jay seemed pretty chill. Rags at points was a bit eh "how ya goin'?"

[@rindoubaka1574]

Well that's just Rags in general. At least it's not as infuriating as when he bandwagon against something he hasn't even seen just to fit in with the group. I remember the Game of Thrones debate when he kept butting in to say that the show sounded terrible from the way Mauler was describing it. Mind you season 8 was terrible but the points were just irrelevant. He likes to be heard.

[@TheJollyMisanthrope]

The fact that the overwhelming majority of the films they talk about are pop culture related doesn't really say much about their film analysis skills. If you want to watch film analysis by someone who is actually insightful and thought-provoking, then check out Rob Ager at Collative Learning. Makes the EFAP crew look like a bunch of amateurs.

[@lampad4549]

@@TheJollyMisanthrope Dude Rob Ager is wrong alot and a film elitist. Pretty all movies before 2000 are good and everything else bad.

[@TheJollyMisanthrope]

@@lampad4549 Wrong a lot about what exactly? Who cares if he's an "elitist". His taste in films isn't what I'm focused on, it's his analysis of the films he chooses to focus on.

[@alliezah]

Is there a version of this without Rags? And it's not sarcasm..

[@KaNoMikoProductions]

"You know how tuberculosis works?" Says Rags, not knowing how tuberculosis works. Either you die quickly or it goes into remission. The portrayal of the show is inaccurate. It wouldn't be constant, never-ending suffering.

[@baffledking9902]

I almost find a romantic theme (romantic in the old English story telling sense, not the love sense) of being too stubborn to die, to will yourself so strongly that death keeps its hands off you. I wish they played that part up so much more than they did, it could have been a very haunting theme and perhaps the start of her curse, shunned by death and rejecting God. Definitely would have played off better than just perpetual TB for a decade...

[@chriscross8547]

Does that take into account the utter detrimental uselessness of historic medicine?

[@go_rilla262]

Before the Industrial Revolution, folklore often associated tuberculosis with vampires. When one member of a family died from the disease, the other infected members would lose their health slowly. People believed this was caused by the original person with TB draining the life from the other family members.[155] It's a chronic wasting disease. Used to be referred to as consumption. Did you even do any research in context of the history of TB? Rags may have been a bit of a rude but he wasn't wrong. I don't get why everyone is acting as if he insulted Drinker's mom and ruined his grandma?

[@wwyd4akb]

@@go_rilla262 I concur goodman

[@spendsshanks6050]

@@go_rilla262 Cringey memes are EFAP’s finest

[@harry426]

49:24 Did Rags just say that some people are... watching movies/shows wrong?

[@arlaghdoth4434]

And now the new arc begins, where the EFAP crew slowly becomes the very thing they swore to destroy. May Tonald bless us in such times of darkness.

[@winkles2314]

Guys it’s a series about a haunted house intended for classic horror fans.

[@TheSlammurai]

Drinker, pretend Bly Manor is what you wanted and see how you feel.

[@harry426]

@@krustycrusader1184 He literally said "People didn't get it". "You don't get it" is something that has been said numerous times by TLJ defenders, as we all know. I'm not twisting his words, I'm repeating what he said.

[@harry426]

@@krustycrusader1184 Or I was making a simple remark using humor and a funny EFAP meme. But you do you.

[@Ottoman1448]

I usually like Rags, but he was insufferable in this.

[@DRsatanus]

he is like one of those people you conceede arguments to, not because you think he is right, but because "they dont pay you enough for this shit" and you know that will end the conversation

[@JoshuaKevinPerry]

Why? He's the same here as he is everywhere else

[@troglodytezero1697]

If Rags likes it then it's perfect no flaws move on.

[@drew_gordon]

"really really"

[@stephenhartley2853]

he's been insufferable since the "pc master race" days and im as pc master race as they come. those vids aged like milk too considering the bullshit state of pc components now.

[@macenblu6]

And its getting really weird how rags can no longer say "I"......everything is "we"

[@malthael966]

Ive never been a huge fan of Rags cause he has let this side of himself slip out from time to time on efap and i had a guess that he was truthfully an insufferable female dog. But this was awful, and to someone i thought was considered a friend to him no less. Rags has become a shadow of the sequel trilogy defenders in this stream to the point where he has echoed the same types of arguements that him, mauler and the rest of EFAP tear apart. Mad respect to you @TheCriticalDrinker for being respectful and allowing them to try and make their points despite your own constantly being interrupted. A lesser man wouldve kicked rags and im ashamed to say its what id have done. Also shoutout to @Kriscasey4 for the timestamp to skip this shYte of a "discussion"

[@beardedbjorn5520]

Oh yeah dude. I hardly watch EFAP any more after realising how much of a hypocrite he is. Plus the forced edgyboi routine wears incredibly thing.

[@montalban5673]

Wait, Rags is a SW sequel defender!? WTF is he doing on Fandom Menace channels? I know we say that we'll tolerate other opinions, but surely thats a red line! There is no way to defend that trilogy of absolute shite!

[@303coop6]

@@montalban5673 he’s a sequel defender, wtf. Puts him in a different light 😂

[@happynihilist2573]

Rags Did NOTHING WRONG!!!

[@malthael966]

@@montalban5673 im sorry i didnt say it clearly enough. I said he is a shadow of one, not one. He made the same type of baseless arguements that sequel defenders do. But just for something he clearly loves and cant stand it being talked down to. Meaning he is the same type of person as them. But considering the many EFAP episodes ive seen. I dont think he likes the ST

[@jbw5935]

Drinker, if Rags can't make it next time, I know a guy who suffers from Tourette's who you can call on to sub in.

[@petesmith13]

Man dont pay out the people with Tourette's they literally can't help it... Rags just seems to not care about people hating him for doing it

[@Ario2547]

at least that will be funny. This is just insufferable.

[@DRsatanus]

wow...a stream with efap members where i wanted rags to be kicked more than i did jay

[@arlaghdoth4434]

Have you kicked Jay today?

[@KaNoMikoProductions]

But that's every EFAP

[@theminingbat]

Dude Rag’s take was correct. Drinker’s take on this show is really tism

[@HugoGojibiter]

@@theminingbat Rag’s usually is a bit of a dick during debates though, I think it’s just something people notice here because he’s having a debate with someone we like. I agree that Rag’s is correct in this one, and I definitely don’t have the same hate for him as some people seem to, I’m a big fan of Rag’s personally, but I definitely see why people can’t stand him in these debates

[@bcanimacoes6280]

@@theminingbat cringe

[@reaperezekial5168]

2:04:03 - If you have to be “convinced” that you liked something, did you actually like it?

[@CitroenC407]

Jesus Jay and Rags totally butchered my enjoyment of this. I adore Drinkers articulate breakdown of complex storytelling in games, movies and TV shows. I watched previous collaborations between Drinker and MauLer and loved those too. However Jay and Rags just spend the whole stream talking over every point Drinker made and were quite patronising about it. I understand the need to defend your views but just stepping in and talking over someone is not the way to do it. Remember when Drinker complained that Ghostbusters 2016 was insufferable because everyone talks over each other and it was mentally draining? This is exactly what Jay and Rags did here. Would have expected more respect here. I'll catch the next one of these.

[@MrPGC137]

Rags is like a spoiled five-year-old throwing a tantrum in the room for attention while the grown-ups are trying to carry on an intelligent conversation.

[@winkles2314]

Jay wasn’t that bad.

[@beardedbjorn5520]

Rags’sss does this all the time. It was only until the ATLA disaster that people finally took notice of it. When he gets put on the back foot he turns into a condescending prick with nothing put whataboutisms, strawmans and straight up rudeness.

[@creatorsfreedom6734]

@@beardedbjorn5520 what is ATLA ?

[@beardedbjorn5520]

@@creatorsfreedom6734 Avatar: The Last Airbender

[@S4ns]

This does nothing to make me want to even watch Bly Manor. Rags, try saving the contempt for someone who is clearly wrong about the material and not someone who just didn't like something.

[@PatrickOMulligan]

But Drinker was wrong about the material several times. They had to keep pointing it out.

[@LordArrion1]

Seems I'm not the only one who believed that Rags came in like a truck of peace, at the Drinker. Not even five minutes in and this already feels like Efap vs E;R on the ATLA question. Edit; 47 minutes in and Drinker cancbarely get a point in, in his own stream. Rags and Jay are constantly interrupting, but at least Jay is actually trying to refute and not be a dismissive ass.

[@patrickbliss9264]

When did efap vs E;R happen?

[@rouge9082]

Mauler was fine like usual, Rags was rude and I didn't like it at all. Drinker has good reasons to not like Bly Manor and he didn't even say it was bad 🤷‍♂️

[@Pt_Lacky]

When watching EFAP, I laughed at the way Rags acted towards videos they had shown, but now he’s acting like that towards drinker. Honestly, it’s giving me a lot to think about in regards to EFAP, and particular Rags and the way he conducts himself.

[@analmancumeth7404]

He has a very consistant view on things. It'd be worse if he kissed the ass of every efap guest or all his friends.

[@mikkelborchsenius1156]

@@analmancumeth7404 He is not consistent regarding film criticism. He contradicts himself several times and changes standards on the basis of the subject. He is a relativist.

[@happynihilist2573]

WTF YOU ARE TAKING ABOUT!!!

[@mikkelborchsenius1156]

@@happynihilist2573 I am talking about a lot of things.

[@happynihilist2573]

@@mikkelborchsenius1156 all imaginary I presume..

[@ChewieOnTwoWheels]

Is Rags on the rag?

[@sammydray5919]

Always has been

[@kreese-yi2nb]

The Drinker is a saint.

[@theminingbat]

Drinker’s take is tism

[@och70]

They're 100% correct about all of the late night talk show hosts. Their monologues are nothing but ultra-cringe, repetitive "oRanGe mAn bAd" material. Not having audiences that laugh on cue really highlights it.

[@chrissullivan6403]

Just want to add my “fuck Rags” to the chorus. He’s the reason I stopped watching EFAP.

[@TheAutistWhisperer]

Rags really needs to contain his ego cause he can be really insufferable when he doesn't. I don't think I will watch Bly Manor anyway cause it's a Netflix show and when they get a second season it goes downhill.

[@jkfozul2316]

Don't cancel your Netflix subscription before watching Bojack Horseman!!

[@beckettmaffei]

About a fifty fifty chance.

[@broisyougobbling]

@@jkfozul2316 My thoughts exactly, Bojack is one of the only netflix shows that gets better as it goes.

[@tommymecousinlostmecar4165]

@@broisyougobbling It's one of the only left leaning shows that are actually good.

[@TheAutistWhisperer]

@@jkfozul2316 I've watched Bojack Horseman and I like what I saw but I don't think I watched since season 2. Perhaps I should go back and continue it.

[@irishgaz3133]

Rags is awkward as hell!

[@chaz9808]

is there anyone else that cant stand rags?

[@tacituskilgore2316]

Can't stand him

[@deedlessdeity218]

Over the past year he's shown more and more a classic narcissistic side that echos his preferred friends' opinions, shits on everything he doesn't like or care about without the standards his team allegedly holds itself up to, and gets pissed quickly when he's on the receiving end of justified critique. His reaction after being proven wrong about his ATLA-points (something he hadn't watched except for select scenes) in discord-discussion was simply "I don't care about it" instead of admitting having been wrong. This is a recurring pattern. I miss Wolf, his rants and wrath were at least spot on and entertaining, not just snide bile.

[@borob.5168]

I like him, but he's often being an asshole. Don't worry, though. He's still a kid (with his attitude). He'll get wiser and less bitter in time.

[@TheAutistWhisperer]

I try to like the guy but I just find him too obnoxious.

[@tacituskilgore2316]

@@borob.5168 How young is he?.. I would've thought someone would've dropped him by now, with that sort of attitude..

[@bjrnhalfhand2258]

Some very snobbish horror fans on the stream with Drinker. Jump scares can have their place. As long as the film doesn't rely solely on jump scares and builds tension as well they can be ok.

[@spenser9908]

It’s like asking a comedy to be funny. A comedy can be completely cohesive and mechanically perfect structure wise in terms of plot. But if it’s not funny, why am I watching?

[@lawrenceviolette1715]

Who raised Rags to interrupt others whenever he has the chance.

[@mrdropkicker1]

Idk man… I feel for Fringy sometimes watching EFAP. Despite being a cohost, he’ll get regularly interrupted by Rags and sometimes even clearly annoyed with him, and Rags never admits fault.

[@andnowawordfromoursponsors4439]

I get the feeling after this stream Rags went and rewatched Bly Manor from beginning to end hysterically crying with his legs crossed and hugging a cushion saying “Heee hee he doesn’t know what he’s talking about, yooooure the greatest visual accomplishment these eyes have ever seeeeen, HOW DARE HEEEEE NOT SEEEEEE”

[@jojo_n_dat7325]

Looooooooool

[@erictheklein3774]

Rags : the king of whataboutism

[@DrWhosmate]

Whatabout whataboutism? It's the bedrock of society. All of law is based on whataboutism, every right you enjoy stems from whatabout practises. Anti-Whataboutism is just another smoke and mirrors attempt to limit rebuttal when an argument doesn't hold up to history. Having said that, I am ten minutes in so have no idea whatabout, you are talking about :-)

[@theminingbat]

How?

[@erictheklein3774]

@@theminingbat Whataboutism is 100% not the correct word but I was enraged at his poor manners towards drinker. But when drinker mentions he's uninterested in Viola because we never see her or know much about her until Rags cuts in, "OH SO I SUPPOSE SAURON IS A BAD VILLAIN THEN." Or whenever he asks "oh I'd like to know what you think a GOOD _____ is." in response to them saying they thought something was bad. RAGS: THE KING OF CONDESCENSION

[@TheRealMacAndCheese]

Good lord, who is this rags guy? Never heard of him but he just seems so pretentious. Drinker actually sounded taken aback by his behavior.

[@spenser9908]

Annoying how absolute and final they try to say their opinions are of Bly while shitting on Hill House when just a few months earlier they were bumming it with the same exact enthusiasm they are Bly here. They dont have the intelligence to let things sit for a while before coming out with these sort of smug declarative statements and judging anyone who thinks differently.

[@spenser9908]

I gained a lot of respect for Drinker in this stream. He held his own really well while being talked over by three guests. Particularly not kicking Rags out of chat. He was insufferable here.

[@JellyfaceProductions]

Can’t stand Rags, don’t understand how he gets a platform frankly. But I love the drinker more than I dislike rags so here I am Edit: Nope, couldn’t get though it. Rags is that bore in the school playground who thinks his opinion is fact, so noone can be bothered to argue. Poison for a movie discussion video.

[@mala6238]

"objective"

[@kevinwilson455]

I thought Drinker held his own very well considering he was up against 3 people looking at Bly Manor as structurally and mechanically near-perfect (if you get it and pick up every single plot point and thread, every small detail, and understand why it works) and were totally focused while watching and had all discussed it and confirmed your liking of it with the other 3 people after watching it together lol Still, a lot of what a show does is not so black and white, and much of it comes down to characters and how engaged you are with them and their story, and that becomes so subjective it's impossible to agree on. Drinker, like many including myself (I gave the first 4 episodes a try) were just not engaged and thought it was boring....... and so did not enjoy it as much. We both watched it alone and that was why maybe why our attentions drifted and we missed things, but that is the shows fault, not mine, as I never have that problem with other slow-burns or similar shows. Is it structurally and mechanically sound from a writing standpoint? probably, I trust Mauler and Rags and Jay on that..... but was it boring and a bit beige for the first half with some iffy acting and accents (absolutely).

[@kevinwilson455]

@Braden Walter I watched this live last night, so It's easy for me to get my point across as I have had time to formulate my opinion. No way would I have held my own up against Mauler, Jay and Rags on a live-show though, they would bury me.

[@kevinwilson455]

@Braden Walter I got notified 12 hours ago, but I think I had put a reminder on when it showed up in subscriptions about 4 hours earlier? the notification bell should still work though? damn YT!!! Thank you. I actually learned a lot from all these guys on the stream about how to formulate and express an opinion, objectively, and admit when something is subjective and just how I "felt"..... I've watched an unhealthy amount of EFAP and Drinker livestreams at this point hahaha but just in general I never try to be impolite or resort to ad-hominem online.

[@FoxyFoxlyn]

I couldn't get into it either. I only made it to episode 4 before I switched off. When I am reaching for my phone or tablet, it is a sign I am not enjoying what I am watching. 😂

[@Phantom042690]

I'm 22 minutes in and it's basically just been Rags saying, "No your opinion's wrong"

[@anthonyfava9367]

I would say structurally and mechanically it was awful. Pacing is an aspect of story telling and Bly Manor takes the long way to answer short questions. Often the scenes are redundant/repetitive creating disengagement. The dream mechanics is so heavy fisted that it removes tension from the overall story because the scenes aren't "real" and it takes away from the main plot with an hour long detour.

[@mikkelborchsenius1156]

This was a tough one. Already from the beginning of the stream there were problems arising regarding Bly manor. Rags states his reasoning for the "greatness" of the show with rather rudimentary statements such as, "well written", "well structured" and so forth. Drinker then argues the beginning being convenient based on the first killing being coincidental instead having it been rooted in a motiv, which would have shown the character's intention from the get go. Rags then interrupts by saying "so what? It was just one of those days". That is a simplistic justificaiton which reeks of defensiveness. There is really no reason to listen to the rest of the "discussion" of Bly manor after that point for me since it is filled with interruptions and confirmation bias from one's mates (Jay). The reason I am explicating the beginning of the "discussion" stems from the assertions Rags makes which contradicts hes previoulsy assertions from other "discussions" espicially TLJ. For those who can't remember, there is a scene where Finn and Tico gets spotted by some random droid which leads to their capture. Rags an co have stated this to be bad writing since it hinges on a convenience (which I higly agree with! see EFAP with major lee). Yet this criticism is irrelevant when it comes to Bly manor eventhough it is the starting point. When you have spent several episodes on EFAP pointing out other peoples negligence with these sort of simplicities and you dismiss them yourself when it comes to something you value highly (this is highly similar to people defending TLJ. I am not equating Bly manor to TLJ as subject matter only the statements given). The dynamic of the "defense" for Bly manor takes a turn when Mauler comes into the stream and Mauler uses references to justify hes claims and Rags become rather silent. This I have seen multiple times now when it comes to the "efap crew" when they are "discussing" a movie, game or TV-show with someone who has a different opinion. A majority of the time when someone is responding to one of their statements an another person quickly jumps in with an another statement or question, so that a person can not give a proper respond. This is nothing more then bad faith shenanigans. Also it has become clear that Rags is just larping along Mauler when it comes to "analysis" of movies and etc. Mauler does the heavy lifting and Rags usually just agrees. This is one of the reasons why I don not enjoy EFP anymore it has seemingly become a loligagging echo chamber who falls into the same problems as RLM where things they like gets analysed differently then something else (the exmaple of convenience). And this leads to the notion when they assert a statement being "objective" is notinhg more then smokescreen protecting them from criticism of themselves (Arguments giving by Quinton and others of similar critternes).

[@TheAutistWhisperer]

Well said and I think RLM hide behind memes whenever they are criticised.

[@mikkelborchsenius1156]

@@TheAutistWhisperer I think you are referring to the "EFAP crew" instead of RLM (Red Letter Media) :) And yes, memes have become overtly redicules.

[@TheAutistWhisperer]

@@mikkelborchsenius1156 Both :)

[@FoxyFoxlyn]

Agree.

[@beardedbjorn5520]

Well said my man. I’m glad that people are waking up to Rag’s just being Mauler’s yappy lapdog.

[@DrefootyOrg]

Jeez, these guys kept interrupting drinker when he is trying to make a point. And they feel they're opinion is the only correct one. Annoying.

[@spenser9908]

Yeah and calling a show you only just watched your second favorite show of all time with that weirdly smug tone. Came off very immature and agitating.

[@spenser9908]

MauLer said the same of Hill House two years ago, only to now go back and say he missed shit loads of issues with it. So why should we be so ready to accept his word on this as gospel now? He needs to be a bit more humble and less trigger happy on pushing his opinions as such blatant facts in that smug “come at me” tone.

[@happynihilist2573]

# Rags Did NOTHING WRONG!!!

[@happynihilist2573]

If I there ever was a situation in which it's appropriate for a creator to hate on his fans it's THIS!! Drinker has evry right to hate you people for how your taking about his friends!!!

[@baffledking9902]

Did that bastard really just compare a contrived coincidental NPC ghost to Sauron? There's no comparison between a character everyone knows exists and is the main antagonizing catalyst in an epic multi-novel saga, to a hastily cobbled together at the last minute tragic ghostly figure with the moronic comparison of "well you just don't see them that much".

[@mala6238]

This is the kind of superficial pseudo-analogy they normally criticize in EFAP. Unbelievable!

[@Oak__]

It’s weird to see mauler and rags defend bly manor. I usually agree with their critiques so watching them defend an ok show as some sort of masterpiece is interesting. It could be that the bar for what a good show is so low these days they are praising an average show.

[@kevinwilson455]

I think they view it as objectively good writing how it all ties together over the whole thing, not as some kind of entertaining thrill-ride. To each their own I say, I won't try and argue with them regarding the script, but it just didn't affect me like it done them, and that is the power of subjectivity hahaha

[@tacituskilgore2316]

@@kevinwilson455 if they want to argue how the show tried to make the mechanics of ghosts and the supernatural have some sort of coherent logic...fine... But the script in regards to the characters dialogue was pretty average, far below average in some parts... There's no pay off... no parallels to be drawn between the characters, it's like they're singular entities with no connection to one another... Rags and Jay were very close to making subjective arguments, ignoring the flaws and Mauler sounded like he was more interested in the themes than the plot...

[@kevinwilson455]

@@tacituskilgore2316 "But the script in regards to the characters dialogue was pretty average, far below average in some parts" Made me cringe a few times the 4 episodes I got into it. The acting and the way the characters reacted to what was happening was also quite off to me at times. Well, Drinker even admitted his opinion was subjective at times, and many of mine were as well..... I am sure if I went through the show with notes I could make an objective argument why the dialogue and acting were bad at times.

[@deedlessdeity218]

@@tacituskilgore2316 Are we witnessing a case of "If you stare into the abyss for too long..."?

[@tacituskilgore2316]

@@deedlessdeity218 perhaps lol.. I'm sure Mauler could flesh out his opinions a bit given more time and at least he was polite and willing to have a discussion... Rags also gives me the impression that he just likes whatever Mauler likes... He's like his little lap dog 🐕 at times...

[@thejasminedragonmerchant6843]

Well, KZbin's notification system has failed me again, but I'm happy to get so much new content to listen to. Lovely video!

[@thekillingtomat]

Drinker has a great point about the tuberculosis and the others just kinda refuse to see it. Sure, the medical science wasn’t what it is today, but if someone is being given their last rites then they must have been real close to dying. It’s not like they detected the decease and just decided that this person will die now. Just like rags point out, ppl have survived it. They would have been aware of that as well b4 they perform the last rites.

[@tacituskilgore2316]

Exactly when it's progressed to that stage, in that time period, you're likely not going to recover... particularly in that climate...

[@AlexAndriy1995]

Not really, they counter him really well

[@krishenjalali3266]

They brought up these two issues: 1. TB is not a guaranteed terminal disease -- true. 2. The quality of medical knowledge in the 17th century was far below what we have now, and explains why they might have assumed someone was on death's door when they weren't yet. Possible. But #2 would also mean that they couldn't care for a person with TB in the way that would prolong their existence nowadays. So when Viola was given her last rites, more likely than not she would have been at death's door and unable to last much longer. Either she was extraordinarily lucky (possible) or there was some sort of unnatural/supernatural element to her living for another 5 years (which is what I thought was going on).

[@thekillingtomat]

@@krishenjalali3266 your #2 was kinda my point tho. They weren't making that argument. If they had then fair enough a decent response to the point made. Having said that tho I still agree with Drinker that it's not good to rely on luck for an important plot point, but if there was something supernatural keeping her alive I guess it's fine. It works within the context of the show from my understanding

[@tacituskilgore2316]

@@krishenjalali3266 The narrator almost comes out and says it was something supernatural that kept her alive... It wasn't even Drinkers main point but they weren't really giving him much of a chance to speak

[@rockwelltn1637]

Wow. Please don’t have rude Rags back on again. He interrupted every 60 seconds.

[@kimj2060]

Yuck Rags! This will be the first Drinker stream that I'll skip.

[@Anneeys]

I'm sorry but I can't watch this one all the way through, I think your points were reasonable and I get you don't have to agree with everyone all the time but I felt you were treated very badly by Rags and Jay (who I don't normally have a problem with) and it was just frustrating to watch.

[@bjrnhalfhand2258]

Ugh can't finish this. Jay and Rags are just insufferable.

[@tacituskilgore2316]

Rags in particular, I had to skip through...

[@DrefootyOrg]

Ditto. Not listenable because it wasn't a discussion, it was just a one sided argument with no tolerance for other opinions. Better to just listen to Drinker's personal review of the story than this mess of a stream.

[@brianperdue8229]

Yeah I cant finish this either.

[@PatrickOMulligan]

Like so many people have never watched EFAP before.

[@monopolizeme]

Love you Drinker and I love EFAP but gosh I couldn’t stick this one out. What I love about Mauler & Rags is their ability to debate with people of differing opinions and still be gracious to them on EFAP. But Rags joined like he just woke up and was pissy for it. It was so difficult to listen to. I felt so bummed. EFAP is much nicer to actual nasty people but were so condescending to you, their host. Ahhh man. I want to listen to the Invisible Man part. I hope it got better there.

[@beardedbjorn5520]

Well, Rag’s has never been gracious to anyone with a differing opinion to him. Just look at his ATLA and Spiderman debate with Garry. He’s a hypocrite

[@rindoubaka1574]

They act gracious in a debate? I love EFAP but I never like to watch a debate involving them. I just think back to the Game of Thrones devate where the opponent was gracious throughout and kept conceding points yet Mauler and Rags (whom had never watched the show) kept acting passive aggressive and never even conceded the most minor if points which could be up to interpretation.

[@arlaghdoth4434]

Debates are the worst part of EFAP tbh, I'd say they're not quite good at it, mostly because of Rags.

[@leonhartdragomir8948]

Now to be fair, it was only Rags who was being rude. Mauler and Jay were quite cordial and there was even a point where I think Mauler was about to say something that he thought might come across as condescending, so he prefaced it with 'Drinker, you know I love you, right?'', which I found pretty amusing and cute. Yes, Rags can be a dick. But Mauler is generally quite the gentleman. It's a shame about Rags too, because he is quite a smart doggo. I've enjoyed his videos and listening to him talk about things. If he could only just tone it down a bit. You might be right, though. Maybe he did just wake up on wrong side of the bed for this one. Or he might be a little bitter over all the flak Bly Manor's been getting. That's been frustrating me too. So he might have entered this debate in a more combative state. Who knows? He still came off as rude and that's not ok.

[@KaNoMikoProductions]

Rags has never been gracious in his life.

[@kurington.blogspot7876]

It's lovely to listen how Rags and Jay talk over Drinkers arguments and he just keeps calm and carry ons. Jay and Rags sucked hard here.

[@grsh191]

48:50 I think this kinda sums the problem with Mauler and Rags argument. Where they treat a chat as a single entity and not a collection of people with differing opinions. On top of that Rags saying that just "didn't get it" comes off as extremely condescending. I love Mauler's stuff, which is why I'm so disappointed that he doesn't even bother to understand the opposing argument. Still love these guys though.

[@spenser9908]

Rags couldn’t have sounded more like Patrick Willems there if he tried. He literally said people who didn’t like it were watching it wrong. Sad little twat.

[@beardedbjorn5520]

@@spenser9908 yeah. He’s nothing but strawmans and condescension when people disagree with him

[@dkimandi]

saying didn't get it doesn't mean he doesn't care about peoples opinions, its just that he thinks he is right and no one has made a a good case of why they don't like bly manor other than the feelings they have across the criticism they have seen onlie

[@spenser9908]

@@dkimandi He characterised its negative response as people "not getting it". That is the exact thing the EFAP gang would normally sneer at and condemn as pretentious. And not only that, but Rags acted uptight and mean-spirited the entire stream towards Drinker. If Rags didn't happen to be MauLer's co-host, he'd be lambasted the same way Jack Saint was.

[@dkimandi]

@@spenser9908 not he wouldn't, they reason jack saint is lambasted is because he is objectively wrong most of them time and lies about mauler and efaps intention about how they criticise movies, rags is saying that bly is objectively really good and the reason for the negative response is all feelings rather than criticism in plot or story and the ones that are saying the plot is not good do not have accurate references.

[@CC-xh1ok]

I don't know why people are surprised of Rags' conduct in these discussions. I can't stand the betrayal of not showing respect and hearing out your old guests that been apart of the show for over a year. It's not only in this instance where people with the opposing opinion are constantly talked over (usually with a 3 v.s. 1), disparaging any and all points the opposition makes even if they are valid, they NEVER concede/stubbornly defend weak points or subjective ones while saying you are making a subjective point. It's just weird for how long they have been doing this, they hardly know how to deal with even one of the most favored guests that dares to step out of line with their opinion. But despite all of that, even if the show is a masterpiece, I can't stand the attitude the audience receives and the sense hosts have some 'intellectual superiority complex' where they just react to spiting chat/viewers when things aren't going their way.

[@deedlessdeity218]

Yeah, I've noticed lately that instead of noting "the chat disagrees" it turned a lot into "let's insult the chat for being wrong (ie not sharing my view)" lately on EFAP

[@yuithgf4524]

@@deedlessdeity218 idk if i'd say its just ''lately''. the worst case of this ive seen is still efap 76, but i think you can find a bit of that in the arrival debate too. anyway, mauler is the one and only reason that so many people covered on efap have come on the show and had positive experience.

[@beardedbjorn5520]

**cough** ATLA **cough**

[@rescuehamster1734]

Yeah, Rags has always been this way. It's just harder to see when he is directed at an video instead of a member of the gang.

[@beardedbjorn5520]

@Linda Niemkiewicz He really does hey, it's pretty funny lol

[@kappa_senpaixd6699]

Dood Rags has spent too long in an echo-chamber with a bodyguard. Long man and friends becoming strawmen? Seemed oh so very subjective! tsk tsk.

[@tomcroll]

I just spent 9 hours watching this to see if there was anything to this. 9 hours wasted. It might have some technically coherent writing but it wasn't entertaining. It was abusively drawn out, it was corny and it was lame. I then rewatched Drinker's review and agree with his take entirely

[@briansmith8749]

Yeah, I could "not" stay in this conversation.

[@SideSpin11]

The Drinker has successfully written and published an entire series of well-received novels, puts out quality content on KZbin consistently, and is kind and courteous to all guests and other hosts alike. A true gent you'd love to have a drink with. Rags has a dead youtube channel, lives on superchats from a KZbin stream carried by another guy, has never to my knowledge created a work of literature/fiction in any form, and has the audacity to come on here and talk to Drinker like he's a bum. Not a good look.

[@contactdaniel24]

I was ..... keyword was, looking forward to this. Rags just being confrontational out if the gate. 44 minutes in and I'm out.

[@rescuehamster1734]

Rags has always been like this. Its just harder to notice when he is directed at a video instead of someone who is part of the gang.

[@losingisntloosing.stopit1396]

I wanted to love Bly the same way I loved Hill House. The slow burn type of horror is fine and I enjoy an atmospheric ghost story. The characters were well constructed and felt like people. The acting was top notch and the sets were great. The ghosts (I dont care what Rags and crew say) were boring with the exclusion of Viola. She was interesting and the aspect of forgetting themselves was an intriguing wrinkle but is leaned on to explain away shortcomings near the end. The weird jumps were jarring and confusing. It gets wrapped and explained near the end but you have to power through it for the payoff. The ghosts are stuck on the property thanks to Violas curse but can escape if they possess someone. This makes no sense. If they merge with the person who has to invite them in, they can escape but not a forced possession? What's the difference? It's never explained because he gets expelled anyway. The ghosts would essentially drive the meat suit in the possession but somehow Danny gets to control the most powerful ghost? Why? Viola is obviously trying to gain control which is why Danny sacrifices herself. Why wouldnt Viola retake control and make danny the new lake lady? Viola was obviously not content to sit still. Were we meant to take away that Danny's ghost was dominant over Viola by placing her hand on Jamie's shoulder? It makes bo sense when we remember why Danny killed herself.

[@lostcause78]

Rags and jay acting like trash, wish I could say I was shocked. Hat off to Drinker for being the adult of the group.

[@TheSwampPrince]

Rags, yes. But jay? This left me wanting to see the jay and drinker go over bly. I think it'd be productive

[@RonnieJamesDeodorant]

@@TheSwampPrince I might say the same, but Jay just said recently in a Superchat stream that pointing out the instakill ghost lady not killing the main character is just a 'nitpick that doesn't affect anything in the grand scheme"

[@PatrickOMulligan]

@@RonnieJamesDeodorant well it does not seem she is an instakill ghost. Her kill time is variable. Convenient for the main character to be sure, but not unprecedented.

[@evafox9696]

Rags deadpan said "you just didn't understand it" to a Superchat that criticsed Bly Manor ... isn't that exactly what Last Jedi defenders say? And what EFAP regularly mocks?

[@beardedbjorn5520]

This just in. Rag’s and Mauler are hypocrites.

[@spenser9908]

@@beardedbjorn5520 Yeah, MauLer's continual assurances that he would never be the type of KZbinr to dismiss constructive criticisms of his audience turned out to be total dogshit, given the way he lashes back immediately at any criticism he receives from the chat, and didn't manage to pick up on Rags doing a Willems and saying people were watching Bly wrong.

[@beardedbjorn5520]

@@spenser9908 Oh he really does turn into Willems when someone disagrees with him. It would be hilarious if it wasn't so pathetic. And I absolutely agree about Mauler being quick to dismiss any legitimate criticism. The way he goes out of his way to White Knight for Rags is sad.

[@dkimandi]

its not a legitimate criticism if the criticism isn't accurate

[@evafox9696]

@@dkimandi Okay, let's use the Great Debate on TLJ from EFAP as an example. "The reason they didn't blow up the Radis in the first ten minutes of the film is because of Hux's arrogance. Snoke called him a BOY. You just didn't understand it." See the similarities?

[@MG-ee2rc]

Classic Rags not knowing how to disagree without coming off as a c you next Tuesday

[@bodieofci5418]

Rags = Brie Larson...

[@spenser9908]

Starting to sympathise with shitheads like Jack Saint or IHE who don’t fancy an EFAP stream. Rags was an insufferable uptight queen here.

[@yuithgf4524]

@@spenser9908 IHE did end up having a 1 on 1 conversation with mauler which went well. i can understand jack saint for not wanting to come alone on efap with wolf and rags, but his video is still one of the worst videos ive ever seen

[@spenser9908]

@@yuithgf4524 Yeah I agree, not defending Jack, he’s an absolute shit stain. But Rags is no less a vicious uptight queen than Jack, I’ve come to notice. I don’t want to catch myself advocating that sort of attitude, regardless of which side of the argument it is.

[@creatorsfreedom6734]

@@yuithgf4524 wat is IHE !?

[@yuithgf4524]

@@creatorsfreedom6734 I Hate Everything, a youtuber mauler and rags had a small feud with but they made peace since then

[@ctrygrl21]

I love u drinker. U give me hope there are still smart people in the world. And u can put in words what some of cant articulate. This is the first time I could not listen to mauler. I felt like I was in twilight episode. This stream was another thing to add to my weird year. Im sorry I can't listen to this stream. I feel ur so out numbered about a show that was shit. Ur review was exactly what I felt. Keep putting out ur views please, and keep what little hope I have in humanity. Good day sir.

[@evilzeus9519]

Loved all your other guests, but a rare miss for a drinker stream.

[@proudtobeme1ashkente]

Haven't watched the video yet but the comments make it clear that Rags was being Rags again. It's cool you're all friends but someone in a group of friends needs to be the one who puts the loudmouthed bullshitter in his place once in a while.

[@spenser9908]

MauLer's too scared to.

[@tarasadowski7467]

I feel like these guys disagreeing with Drinker don't understand how last rites work. It is something done at someone's deathbed, to absolve them of sins before they die. It's not administered when someone is diagnosed with a terminal illness that will be valid even if "its too early." And for most laypeople, it would be an indication to the audience the person is about to die. The haughty attitude about anyone who disagrees with them, when they clearly don't know what they are talking about it just obnoxious

[@mala6238]

On EFAP, they would make fun of people that make "arguments" like that.

[@tarasadowski7467]

@@mala6238 Mocking someone's argument is not an argument in and of itself. It felt as though they were unwilling to acknowledge any flaws in the show.

[@mala6238]

@@tarasadowski7467 true that. Sad.

[@wishuponamonkeyspaw2458]

Okay, a little dig through Wikipedia suggests there are three (catholic) ceremonies that together make up the last rites: The _Extreme Unction_ - This one can be administered when someone falls ill or grows old, even without the danger of imminent death, but also in conjunction with it, hence its inclusion in the "last rites". It also serves as a prayer for a recovery, involves the sacred oils and can only be administered by an ordained priest or bishop. If this (and only this) is the one being administered, it's score 1 for the EFAP crew, even if they didn't do their homework properly. The _Viaticum_ - This one's for when you're really on death's door. The recipient is given bread and wine as a final Eucharist and can be carried out by a layperson. The purpose of it is to pray for Jesus to lead the faithful to heaven. If this is the one, the argument goes to Drinker. The _Penance_ - This is the typical 'forgive me Father, for I have sinned' stuff. Safe to omit it and focus on the other two for the purposes of the discussion, though I'm inclined to say in the off chance the depicted rite is this, the point goes to Drinker as it's still part of the actual last rites. I don't know if we can conclusively prove Viola as either protestant or catholic, so there's a chance these definitions may not be entirely applicable, but seeing as both the EU and the Viaticum appear to have their basis on the Bible, I think it's safe to assume they're not too different between the two faiths of the 1600's. Further, a little about Viola's illness: Drinker assumes it to be tuberculosis, other possibilities based on Viola's 'blood cough' are bronchitis, pneumonia and lung cancer. In the episode, it's referred to as "the Lung," while good ol' Wiki states TB was historically called 'the Consumption' instead (owing to a symptomatic loss of appetite and the following weight loss), but regional name variants aren't that unusual. It's a slow killer that has been known to man for thousands of years, and was a common cause of death for the young before the discovery of antibiotics. So, what's being depicted in the episode? - The doctor diagnoses that Viola has "months at the most." - The narrator says: _"And all things exhausted, their vicar came again to Bly, but to perform a rite far more melancholy than the rosy song of matrimony he sung before."_ - The vicar recites John 14:3 (although the exact wording doesn't quite match any versions of the Bible that I can find with a summary search). From the English standard version: _"And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also. "_ - The vicar appears to be holding a cloth, although it's likely to ward of the disease (or more likely, 'unclean air' as might have been the belief at the time) as the husband and sister also hold their own, it could also be soaked in oil for the Unction rite. There's no bread or cup in sight in the shots. - The husband says to Viola: _"Viola, you must repeat the rites. It is not about your body any longer, my love, it is your soul we must treat. It is your soul I worry for."_ - The narrator describes the husband as a superstitious type, so it's within reason he would have arranged for an Extreme Unction as early as possible given its nature as a 'get well ritual'. Now then, with the (hopefully) facts sorted out, I'll leave you to arrive at your own conclusions, dear reader(s).

[@andrealee8561]

U really needed this much time for this movie

[@brucewayne8562]

Rags is on drugs, the backstory was terrible and so out of place. His favourite episode, I'd say it was the worst, but then the whole series was pretty wank tbh

[@BasicShapes]

Having never seen Bly Manor, based on what I'm hearing here so far, it sounds like they made some risky decisions with the lengthy flashbacks and somewhat convoluted pacing. It's not for everyone. Much like how the Witcher series has a lot to be loved, but they also did that convoluted extended flashback nonsense that left a lot of people googling "Witcher Timeline". It's a risk. I think as an author, Drinker knows a thing or two about storytelling _efficiency._ As in, not being overly long-winded...and I think that's where he's coming from.

[@TheKbthakur]

Big fan of drinker. Know about mauller, have no idea about who the other guys are. That rags fellow is a drag. Right from the beginning when drinker was explaining how he did not like the way lady of the lake character was not properly developed rather than saying something like hey i don't agree with that i think it was proper for the story or saying something like I don't know man i think they handled it correctly, almost like sauron is barely mentioned in lotr he goes right to " ohh sauron was barely shown in lotr i think he was barely a threat" i mean did this kid forgot that he is in a discussion and not leaving a snarky comment on KZbin. Lol where did drinker find these kids.

[@MH-pu6ee]

I love the drinker and efap... this time am 100% of the same opinion as the Drinker.... and the efaps take genuinely baffles me!!! but hey I guess that mean the Apocalypse is apon us!.

[@brantinghamjohn]

Pedantic: The art of dissecting a story so finely it's no longer recognizable to someone stumbling upon the critique half way through.

[@Spartan_5271]

To add onto the ambiguity of Invisible Man is if the movie actually ends with her in the hospital and she's sitting on the bed, staring at the corner of the room before she just asks, "Are you happy now?" There is a long eerie silence of her just staring at that corner before cutting to black, making the audience wonder if he's standing there or if she's actually just crazy.

[@mala6238]

Great point. Thought about that, too.

[@GenKio354]

"MASTERPIECE"

[@colinferguson7202]

The ‘I guess the parents never got in the way’ comment from Rags totally jumped out at me. If EFAP had a guest on who defended a movie or show they didn’t like with that kind of ‘argument’ they would have laughed in their face and ripped them to shreds. Ah well. Guess it’s different if Rags likes it. Bit if an eye opener this one for a lot of us I think. There are likely a lot of EFAP subscribers that are Drinker fans and probably many of us who laughed along as these tactics were used against guests we didn’t like or to tear down media we didn’t like. Just that hearing it used against someone we like makes it a bit more obvious. Guess this is how fans of other creators that EFAP have pulled this on feel when they hear it.

[@spenser9908]

MauLer’s too reluctant to ever call Rags out. He’s useless with any negative feedback from chat.

[@FoxyFoxlyn]

I couldn't listen to the entire stream. They just annoyed me so much. I was annoyed Mauler didn't tell Rags off. If that was my friend, I would be having some harsh words with them about their behaviour on someone's else's stream.

[@deedlessdeity218]

@chaoszieg Heavily generalizing here: Rags's arguments for Bly Manor as superficial and glossing over the other side as his arguments against ATLA and glossing over what worked. He's purely arguing from emotional: 1) This show made me feel good so I defend it 2) That other thing looks like anime so I hate it and everyone who thinks otherwise is dumb, I don't need substance.

[@colinferguson7202]

@@deedlessdeity218 That what I was trying to get at Deedless. And on EFAP they have specifically said that ‘how it makes you feel’ is not an acceptable argument. Can’t remember the guy they had on where they told him not to do that. Maybe someone else remembers. But yeah they did seem to be arguments that they have mocked people for in the past. Must only apply to other people 😊

[@yuithgf4524]

it wouldve been an eye opener if we hadnt had the A:TLA blunder. and thats coming from someone who hasnt watched and doesnt care abotu A:TLA. what rags did during efap 76 was simply going against everything i thought efap stood for. when you criticize something youre supposed to hand out references and not antagonize the audience who calls you out on your lack of proper argumentation? not if youre rags. honestly... watching this stream, i noticed barely anything that felt out of the ordinary for me. rags wasnt particularly harsher or dumber than usual, he was just being rags. but he was being rags to the critical drinker, so i get why people find this one in particular to be annoying.

[@84C4]

Was Rags on the rag?

[@chelovek500]

Critical Drinker, this is a great podcast and you come across as a professional and mature broadcaster. In fact, with some of your guests (Nerdrotic, for example), this is easily just as good as any professional radio broadcast. That makes episodes like this all the more jarring. I don’t know who “Rags” is outside of hearing him hear, but he comes across like a kid with a microphone who has no business podcasting. He downgrades the quality of your show and I literally had to tune out because he was so obnoxious. I’m not writing this to be troll or get into an argument; I’m just letting you know that you’ve got a lot of talent and should vet your guests or-at the very least-set some ground rules for how they should behave on your show.

[@CriticalDrinkerAfterHours]

I think its a learning process. The more you do it, the more you get a feel for which guests work on your channel, and which don't.

[@evilherodiamondcat]

@@CriticalDrinkerAfterHours is this an admission that Rags was a bad guest?

[@creatorsfreedom6734]

@@evilherodiamondcat - cant really LEARN if you are Hammered BTW - "drinker" this youtuber like's to edge or act out the name even though he never talks like a drunk - only shows a image of someone with a bottle of possible apple juice - Drinker's talkin point vids are pretty good for a Drunk .... some how

[@spenser9908]

@@evilherodiamondcat I deduce, yes.

[@SvendleBerries]

@@creatorsfreedom6734 Just because someone is a "drinker" doesnt mean they are always drinking. I think youre taking the name a tad too literal. Strange too that youre being weird about someones creative process, considering your name.

[@SavageTactical]

20% of the time, you survive every time.

[@VaporSulla]

So Bly Manor it's "phenomenal" because meets the bare minimum level of consistency? I don't know.

[@yuithgf4524]

@chaoszieg honestly thats my biggest problem with mauler. he just doesnt know how to judge acting or pacing objectively since theyre more complex to grasp than logical consistency, so he just assumes theyre subjective. that notion of ''90 minutes of a chair'' being a perfect movie is beyond retarded. im fine with considering music, pacing, acting and how well executed themes are to be partly subjective, but remember if you say they cant be judged objectively you remove the notion of quality from all these things as well as the notion of ''getting better'' at these things, which imo is closer to killing art (or at least good art) than to try to come up with an objective scaled for these even if it will inevitably end up being flawed in some way

[@wishuponamonkeyspaw2458]

Narrator: ...and Danny turns around just in time for to see the figure of a faceless woman before an iron grip of death tightens around her throat. EFAP: *[Silent investment]* Narrator: Now, before I continue, let me spend the next hour explaining how and why the ghosts work the way they do in this story. EFAP: I see no problem with that. I swear, I've seen smoother backstory deliveries in anime. I certainly wonder how Rags would feel hearing that.

[@yadanie6194]

I thought Bly Manor was okay. Am I missing something here? Rags' oversensitivity is confusing me.

[@afluffywhitekitty8589]

Rags... what are you on?

[@tacituskilgore2316]

Ragz + Jay said "The payoff is tragedy"?... Lol.... You sound like the people you criticize.... ...You get 3 ghosts that have no connection to the story... I felt nothing for them...

[@KaNoMikoProductions]

The pay-off was that there was no pay-off! lul