Torchwood's Most Overrated Episode

Unlike Doctor Who, Torchwood rarely had multi-part episodes, but this all changed in Series 2 with the so-called 'Owen Trilogy', regarding the character's resurrection. However, is the midpoint of this trilogy, 'Dead Man Walking', actually overrated?
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#DoctorWho #Torchwood #Review

[@HarboWholmes]

The BBC have already claimed this video, so if you could support me on Patreon, I would really appreciate it! (you can even commission a Classic Who or SJA review, I'll just leave that out there 😛) www.patreon.com/harbowholmes

[@user-jn1wm3tb8v]

Good old BBC.

[@Daniel_leading_the_13_Plateans]

how bad is it? do u need more patrons or will the channel die?

[@HarboWholmes]

It's pretty bad. It takes 60 days to overturn a BBC claim to get the ad revenue back and I'm currently fighting 6 claims (I expect it'll be 7 soon when they inevitably claim the Planet of the Dead review.) Right now KZbin is my only source of income, so yeah, it's not looking great. Of course, I could easily get a more traditional job with secure income, but that would mean my video output would decrease a lot, since I'd only have a fraction of the free time.

[@johannvongenerico9487]

Is the SJA plug there some cheeky clickbait, because I'm sure you said you wouldn't do them :p

[@HarboWholmes]

I'm going to do the two crossover ones, but aside from that, I'd do any episode if someone commissions it

[@xenon8117]

"...And my hunger will know no bounds, but I keep getting redirected to weightwatchers." Ianto's line always makes me laugh.

[@bloodyneptune]

I somehow felt the worst for Tosh in this ep. She thinks she finally can admit how she feels without any awkwardness and he _doesn't die?_ Shit just never goes that poor girls way

[@alim.9801]

Tosh is did dirty in every single episode I SWEAR

[@korpus1319]

I love toshiko, poor girl

[@MattheousOfficial]

The sequence when Owen is out on the town is what's called a Snorricam. Basically just a camera mount attached to the chest.

[@CyborgCharlotte]

Didn’t they use a similar technique in the X-Men movies for the Quicksilver scenes?

[@Carlos_Mendoza_]

Filmento has a video on the visual style of Guy Ritchie's Sherlock Holmes, there he explains the snorricam's purpose and how it's used

[@jessica23claire]

I like to call it the "Skins wasted" shot.

[@DanTheMan2150AD]

The single most clickbaity title I’ve ever seen from you Harbo. Smh. This episode is fabulous.

[@thats_the_cream3663]

How did you comment this 23 hours ago when the vid is less than a minute old

[@LordGoose-zr6jj]

@@thats_the_cream3663 time travel, they own a tardis

[@yipflaptheexecutioner6519]

Is called an opinion, but yeah I hate the word overrated because something is overrated to someone, everything is overrated, I know someone who hates Doctor Who and constantly says it's overrated. Point is, saying something is overrated is not real criticism, it's a shallow way of expressing an opinion disguised as objective critique.

[@bloodyneptune]

Yeah but "The Most Overrated Episode In My Opinion" is a weird title. I can't imagine many people assume he means 'for a fact'

[@redjirachi1]

If Owen's "afterlife" applies to other species, I'm just imagining all the dead Daleks angrily squawking and trying to shoot at the void after death.

[@alim.9801]

OH MY GOD YES 😭😭💀💀

[@redsquirrel724]

Personally the thing I disliked about this episode was how they underutilised Martha. It felt like out of the three episodes she was present for her only real inclusion was her first. It was like her presence was only necessary in the same way as her presence in 'The Doctor's Daughter', to be put in trouble and raise the stakes. If they had used Tosh or Ianto instead that could've added more pressure as not only would it be another main Torchwood team member in peril but it would have added a personal price for Owen or Jack respectively.

[@dansmudge135]

Owen fights death is one of the best pieces of soundtrack in the show

[@nightowl8477]

The original ending of The Impossible Planet was Rose being possessed, her eyes turning black. We open The Satin Pit with a surreal dream sequence of the Tylers' flat. Russell had both removed, stating dream sequences are without exception _"pathetically symbolic",_ but I guess Matt Jones is a stubborn one hahaha.

[@luk5859]

While I consider Russel T Davies one of the best TV show headwriters generally, if not THE best, this anecdote seems like he hugely underestimates the potential of dream scenarios in TV.

[@lewiskazinsky7334]

@@luk5859 Exactly. The Sopranos used dream sequences to add vulnerability to a sociopathic character. Those scenes were insightful in such a visually pleasing way. I’ve watched and loved all of RTD’s work but that seems uncharacteristically small-minded of him.

[@nightowl8477]

@@lewiskazinsky7334 - whenever he gives these remarks, Russell's quick to add that there should never ever be a list of 'Dos and Don'ts.' Writing is an art, not a science, after all. He always says that a writer could use every trope he hates and do it magnificently. Including dream sequences. In fact, in this specific case, he brings up how Steven was at the time writing Donna a dream sequence for Forest of the Dead, and said it'll probably be brilliant. But generally he's opposed to them. The whole point of The Writer's Tale is making fun of self-proclaimed 'Writing Gurus' and how tyrannical they can be in their advice. It's a brilliant book, the one and only respectable way to handle these topics. It's very open-minded, honestly.

[@lewiskazinsky7334]

@@nightowl8477 Absolutely! I’ve lived in Manchester for several years and have seen him around the gay village a few times, he was even nice enough to answer a couple of my drunken questions. He strikes me as a guy who’s supremely confident in his own style of writing yet very anxious about not dictating the ‘right’ answer, always prefacing his responses with a disclaimer. I think a lot of artists could learn how to strike the balance between assuredness and humility from him; Chibnall seems to get his sticky paws in every script, whereas you can distinctly tell a Gatiss or Moffat script in the Davies era. There was a level of trust or respect that made his run feel a lot more diverse from a writing POV.

[@nightowl8477]

@@lewiskazinsky7334 - ahh I'm based in Manchester myself, but always just about miss him. He posted a picture of himself at Gay Village just a few hours after I went there for my first time. It was a ghost town what with everything being closed haha. What did you get out of him? Well you say that, but Russell had a very large hand in the scripts of his era, mostly. To the point where he's said Human Nature is just as much his as it is Paul's. But after, on a whim, he decided not to take co-credit for The Unquiet Dead, he accidentally made that the unspoken rule. Never taking credit until DWM's Ben Cook encouraged him to do so for Planet of the Dead and Waters of Mars, some of his final works. This was a rule Steven continued with Matt but broke with Peter, though I'm told Steven didn't do as much script editing as Russell. Anyway, he never ever touched any of Steven's scripts, not a word. Nor did he touch Fear Her, The Lazarus Experiment, 42, or The Doctor's Daughter. These writers, Steven included, Russell respected and trusted as they all were showrunners themselves. But even the scripts he edited, he still allowed the writers to keep their own voice, yes. It was more plot and character based touch-ups; I understand he left the tone intact. As much as I know about Doctor Who's production 2005-2017, I haven't a clue in fuck what Chris's methods are. They're very secretive.

[@dreamleak1543]

In my own head canon Owen does draw life from Jack just like Suzie and Gwen but since Jack is everlasting life Owen lives in everlasting death 🤷

[@alim.9801]

That would definitely make sense adding that to the ol head canon

[@lachlan.mooney]

Except, there was no energy linking the two together, putting that theory to rest

[@_alex_merrick_]

It always confused me why they never made that the reason behind Owen’s persistent death. It doesn’t help that the track “Owen Fights Death” uses Jack’s Theme in addition to Owen’s, hinting at a connection between the two.

[@lazulenoc6863]

No wonder why my heart feels dead inside, it's cold and dead and petrified. Lock the doors and close the blinds, we're going for a ride! - Owen, probably.

[@kaykutcher2103]

Torchwood and The Addams Family is truly an incredibly bizzare combo.

[@ig_4220]

I'm still hacked off with the annoying wordplay of "it was Hope" that solved the problem and running around in circles until realising it was the resurrectee's name.

[@Bobsmith-xq2pr]

Really? I thought it was a clever final twist.

[@PlanetNateGaming]

It's a clever play on words, not the feeling of hope but but Hope herself. it could have been replaced by an overly elaborate riddle but that would have made the episode a bit tedious to watch, I think it was simplified to serves its purpose more easily (thats my opinion anyway)

[@patchworkfellow]

10:09 _“Given a new_ lease of life” *The picture is the cover-art for “Lease of Life”* In the words of one big-eared northerner/Time Lord, “puntastic”!

[@kamakazeyt]

I wish there was some explanation as to why Owen never came back to life biologically. Maybe Jack's immortality with him being a fixed point preventing it to bring him back using Jack's life force? Or that you need both gloves to fully resurrect someone permanently, and that without them both it will either drain the user's life force, or fail to bring the person resurrected back biologically? The latter would definitley explain the creation of the gloves, because why would someone create gloves to resurrect people either at the cost of someone's life, or by bringing them back to life as a walking corpse.

[@shokwavedodo1176]

I did enjoy this episode, but personally A Day In The Death is not only the best of the trilogy, but the best Torchwood episode.

[@nicolebee3283]

This episode wasn't the best in my opinion. It's the next one that's the best. I am not ashamed to admit that the next episode made me cry over Owen, a character I hated from pretty much the start, it just worked that well

[@sc9835]

I personally prefer the episode after this one A Day In The Death. The whole bit where Owen literally squares up to death is just a bit too much for me to take seriously and kinda overshadows the rest of the episode💀

[@PlanetNateGaming]

Personally I like the part where Owen faces down death because he's the only one who can, that and because of the short speech he gives Jaime about beating death, Harbo thinks the CGI is a bit goofy but for 07-08 It's pretty good and holds up quite well, I think both Dead Man Walking and A Day In The Death are great, particularly like the start of A Day In The Death when Owen says the line: "All my friends think I'm fine, the truth is...I'm not", Owen's just a great character all-round

[@KrisFrost4359]

I always liked this episode, but even as a kid the visual of Owen flailing about with a CG skeleton covered in CG smoke felt so goofy.

[@sizzle8734]

Here's a theory. What if you needed to use both gloves to perfectly ressurect people 🤔🤷‍♀️

[@babs_barbarian3778]

I always look forward to your videos and they never disappoint, thank you so much!

[@TripleJumpYTP]

16:17 notice the camera in the reflection of the glass in the bottom left half of the shot

[@jazzling]

the thing with owen in the darkness scared me so much because it was midnight

[@tribesman8424]

Owen fighting ps3 cgi death is the funniest thing I have ever seen

[@VeracityLH]

Actually, Burn Gorman WAS touching something real. There was an actor in green CGI costume playing Death during the wrestling scene. I don't mind the skeleton within the Death monster. It looked neat with Death's usual black cloak being made of smoke. Now, if they'd given Death a scythe that would have been too cheesy, but I thought it looked okay. Also could have done without Martha's aging makeup, even though it served the purpose of getting the team to hospital. And I REALLY could have done without the Weight Watcher's joke. Burn Gorman's acting is what made this episode, however, and a lot can be forgiven to see that.

[@dousc7579]

If i can ask a possibly obvious question Why was Martha going to examine him if they knew how he died? And what would she need to cut him up for?

[@StagTwo]

Torchwood keeps the bodies of its workers after they die, and owen has been exposed to many alien artifacts and life which may have impacted his body in some way.

[@dousc7579]

@@StagTwo That makes sense, thanks

[@Aurora_Lightbringer]

I love the Owen Trilogy tbh. He's an incredibly interesting character mixed with an incredibly intresting concept (I mean, the man who dies forever with the functioning foil of Jack, the man who lives forever is just gold) Of course it's flawed because Torchwood just is, but what the trilogy represents is phenomenal.

[@johannvongenerico9487]

You could have the smoke monster take vaguely skull like forms at its head. Subtlety would definitely have been better. Couldn't have gone full Final Destination with the force of Death, as then there's nothing to grapple with at the end, but definitely should have been less skeletal

[@scotcheggable]

You could have made it start off as a smoke monster but show that as it kills more people it becomes more solid if they absolutely had to go the skelly route. Slap some strips of flesh and cover up the crappiness of it with smoke. Or just literally have it inhabit a corpse. That would also work.

[@sonicsophie]

Owen Fights Death is an incredible piece of music, an amazing riff on Owen’s Theme. I do agree with you on this episode though (I don’t know why people are saying the title is clickbait when he’s exactly the conclusion you come to in the video 😂) - it seems Torchwood has a bad habit of building an amazing episode, and just slightly messing it up at the ending. Funnily enough that’s exactly what happened in They Keep Killing Suzie (like you said), which is the “companion” to this episode! But I get why this episode is so loved as 85% of it is amazing. It’s like when I watch End of Days…. it’s one of my favourites purely because I actively ignore the last 5 minutes with Abaddon 😂😂

[@apanapandottir205]

Two guys getting arrested for fighting in a bar? Let's put them in the same cell! :D

[@DRYB0NEZ]

That goofy stock free asset cg skeleton is so funny

[@ohmy255]

This episode isn't the best in the trilogy of Owens death, but we defos early needed it, because it made Owens final death all the more heartbreaking, because the audience finally knows it's time, eve m after the magic of his resurrections

[@JR-pf9in]

19:42 I was confused too. I was expecting the black eyes and demon voice to reappear as a cliffhanger or something. That scene should have ended earlier

[@duracell9575]

A day in the death is fucking amazing but Dead man walking is okay, tbh the best thing about it is Burn Gorman's acting and the Music, Owen fights death is one of the best Torchwood themes in my opinion.

[@StarWyvernHPB]

People consider calling something overatred as calling something bad. But an overated episode can still be good, or great. its just not as good as alot of people think due to nostaliga and stuff

[@PlanetNateGaming]

I've watched this episode twice EVER (13 years apart), When it aired I loved it and when I rewatched it a few months ago I realised how great pre-2010 TV was, If I were to chose 1 Torchwood episode to show someone who'd never watched it I'd chose Dead Man Walking

[@StarWyvernHPB]

@@PlanetNateGaming that's a fair point. It is a great episode, although it strongly befits from both the previous episode, and the whole show due to the character development. I'd personally recommend episode 1 season 1 for someone who hadn't watched the show.

[@1Gidget]

Just realised the hospital they film in is the one in Stolen Earth, or am I wrong?

[@korpus1319]

Is there a hospital in stolen Earth? Did you mean Smith and Jones

[@1Gidget]

@@korpus1319 yeah when the doctor and Donna go to the shadow proclamation

[@korpus1319]

@@1Gidget i thorght that was a museum tbh haha. That's atturaly really cool! Thanks for telling me that.

[@_CRU_X_]

He can't get drunk or get laid, therefore - "There's nothing left for him" oh my haha 😂

[@RyansGuitars]

Overrated? I haven’t heard a single person talk about it 😂

[@lucypreece7581]

The 2 main failings are bad CGI and it's over stuffed. I love how they still manage to keep some of the snarky and sarcastic humour of Own.

[@erinella]

I've never actually had any strong feelings in regards to this episode. I didn't even realise it was a fan favourite 😅

[@matthewbray764]

I liked some of the aspects of this episode but I never found it to be a high point of season 2 but it also was not a low point

[@RedKingdomWarrior]

The moment Rita Repulsa appeared in this video, I spat water all over my computer screen! God, I love these videos! Great work, Harbo!

[@567secret]

I just hope Owen didn't "survive" the end of S2

[@CryptoSeb]

Last time I clicked this fast, it was the most anticipated episode 😂

[@runilareads15]

I've only watched one episode of Torchwood but Burn Gorman is my favourite actor so I just watched this video to hear you talk about him.

[@connor1577]

8:45 I imagine the actor wears some kind of harness around their waist with the camera attached

[@ohgoditshimrun1346]

The point of the show "Lost" is a whole bunch of writers getting paid extra for being unable to write any story that has a beginning, middle, and end. So every story just had a middle, middle and middle.

[@MrGreaves]

12:10 aha, lease of life.. get it? X)

[@George-tm2wt]

8:33 this technique is called SnorriCam

[@blobfish5730]

Dead Man Walking - Harbo when he posted the companions video.

[@LabradorIndependent]

Things are getting...awfully deep

[@HarboWholmes]

Just you wait until next week

[@Daniel_leading_the_13_Plateans]

@@HarboWholmes I sense mars and some water?

[@LabradorIndependent]

I was referencing the song playing over Owen's delirium, but I look forward to next week!

[@mastertadakatsu]

16:30 Alpha Death has escaped. Call Torchwood!!

[@judeconnor-macintyre9874]

Plot Hole: Death has killed more than 12 people in the world. Pretty sure at least.

[@mattthesilent777RED]

I did not vomit when Owen stood upside down and let out all that stuff

[@alim.9801]

The glove is really like a monkeys paw kinda thing I dig it

[@ManicMuppit]

In all honesty it's one of my lesst favourites. There were some spot on moments (Jack and Owens little chat is gorgeous, and the focus on Owens unhappiness), but on the whole I just don't understand the hype. For me it's a solid middle ish episode, as is the following episode. I dunno, the first few minutes of Jack just randomly finding the other glove (in hours) and making it work for him was very hand wavy, just to get the rest of the episode going. And the speech between Owen and the ill child, plus the dodgy CGI Death was cheesy and embarrassing to watch. I dunno, I love this series but this couple of episodes was a bit blah for me. Burns acting is top tier though!

[@ManicMuppit]

On the other hand, Ianto's line of (ish) "I searched for the phrase 'i will roam the earth and my hunger will know no bounds' but I keep getting redirected to weight watchers" is fucking gold.

[@liamheneghan4977]

Ngl this episode would've been 10x better if they had used Rita Repulsa instead of CGI skeleton guy.

[@henryg4377]

Yes! U managed to get behind the BBC's back!

[@scotcheggable]

Why does most media make death out to be some evil entity? It's really kinda depressing, and says something unflattering about the writers.

[@bmvthemoviefanatic7282]

People like this episode? PERSONALLY, it's probably my least favorite episode of the first three seasons. Never been a big fan of Doctor Who straight up delving into the supernatural, and Owens's fight with Death was utterly ridiculous. As for the episode's exploration of immortality, that is something I think the next episode "A Day In The Death" does WAY better. That is honestly one of my FAVORITE episodes. I won't say I hate this episode, though, and I know I'm in the minority which is fine. Nevertheless, the Owen trilogy is a rollercoaster XD

[@grimmestreaper2707]

This episode is great

[@greglinks]

Okay Harbo is officially stinky

[@dylanringproductions160]

I can understand, I think the episode after this was even more powerful

[@kateglew580]

bro what's the rating???

[@maddyc2412]

The smoke monster from Lost was explained pretty clearly, if you dont understand it then you probably shouldn't be watching shows like that

[@unorthodoxbox]

Is this episode overrated? I barely remember it. This is the first time in years I've seen it. I recall the music cause I thought it was pretty damn good. I recall the skeleton thing and thought it was goofy like a scooby doo monster.

[@kektuss]

But what if… they used both Gloves?

[@tomdemongod]

this and next episode is literally my favourite lol

[@rudenotginger123]

6:13 😂

[@cillianennis9921]

The monster is a un comparehendible being it should be interpretabable

[@capricorn878]

Honestly, I never care about Owen lmao dude was a pain in the ass

[@CashelOConnolly]

Torchwood was brilliant (not the American tripe) I wish they’d bring it back😞

[@user0237]

Favourite Torchwood episode

[@baders087]

I hated this ep when it came out, and the next wasn’t much better.

[@kennethcollins4188]

Shanked him to death

[@nevem5010]

👍👍

[@laurenjcoates]

This episode rips lmao clickbait ass title

[@bigmansomm7911]

Personally dislike this episode, day in the death is way better

[@isabellaearnhardt6380]

💖

[@ethancook5622]

Rip

[@monstroazul3989]

Love itttt