Hard Test on Milwaukees NEW concrete saw

[@mariosalas4312]

I always use the water hook up on mine keeps the blade cool and you dont get dust i have a sthil the best saw i have used

[@FishFind3000]

It’s also an osha requirement to use the water.

[@bradcoddington1679]

I have a sthil saw and its a piece of crap can never get it to start.

[@FishFind3000]

@@bradcoddington1679 stihl has a special start procedure, if you fail to follow it it will almost always flood. Try this next time. Prime till full put on full choke pull till engine burps(ei first sign of any starting) if you continue to pull it will flood put on high idle pull till starts always works for me and i have 6 pieces of stihl equipment from trimmers, blowers, saws. Always worked for me this way. That is how they tell you to do it in the owners manual. good luck

[@mariosalas4312]

Brad Coddington You need to know how to use it i been using mine for many yeard cuts like butter

[@Michiganmannn]

brad coddington probably got water in your gas

[@rdmurdock88]

We have 2 they are a joke... very short battery life.... they cut great just not very long....we got 7 foot full depth cutting a floor

[@TheSuppressFurry]

5:53, lol that was some bad timing! "Right out of the gate you notice that it's got power" as the saw bogs down and comes to a complete stop.

[@9856CB]

That Milwaukee was only doing half the depth of the Husky. Great demo

[@raulruizrivera5642]

Not gonna lie 6 Linear feet is kind of a joke

[@jakef1998]

Thats what I was thinking, when I put the relief cuts in my driveways, i usually have to make 3-5 20ft cuts.

[@Stevenmiller7836]

Good attempt, however looks like the gas saw is superior

[@haraldreaper976]

6 linear feet at full depth

[@raulruizrivera5642]

Harald Reaper thats nothing if you really have to use a quickiesaw on a regular basis it would never be worth it we cut out entire driveways I cant imagine having to change out batteries every 6 feet

[@pointedspider]

6 linear feet at 5in depth!

[@MJPeddler]

Well done! I don't think I've ever watched a concrete saw drag race before!

[@bladesdirect]

Ya that was awesome!

[@FishFind3000]

10:20 that’s why osha says to use water. It’s a REQUIREMENT!!!!!

[@rhyslf]

Agreed, dry cutting concrete is unbelievable stupid

[@loganconnally4361]

These guys can’t be serious

[@shayd1984triton]

Getting the free saw isn't freaking stupid. It's absolutely generous.

[@bladesdirect]

Lol thanks! I think Stan means it in a good way!!! Appreciate that!!!

[@McCartneyWill4]

Picked one up in a show room at a rental company, weighs as much as a boat anchor. Fully gassed stihl ts420 and ts 500i weigh less then these fully fueled. I know it’s revolutionary, I know it won’t happen tomorrow but if you need production this isn’t the saw. Even husqvarna offers a corded saw for minimal emission conditions and its heavier but can run all day not for fractions of an hour. Balance is everything and their decades behind the competitors in ergonomics and effectiveness.

[@PatrickPecoraro]

The husky corded saw kept throwing a 15amp breaker really should have a 20amp plug on it.

[@WetCoaster]

Many OH&S types are now looking at excavations as a type of confined space due to the introduction of exhaust. No exhaust, equals no confined space.

[@SteveLurvey]

Hahaha I love how you have a pet under your shirt while you are around the house. Legit a real person no bullshit

[@jmackinjersey1]

I think where this saw will really outshine the gas is in a location, like a basement or other enclosed area, where exhaust fumes are an issue.

[@Migman2020]

If you watch the booth videos that is what they said its intended for. So we cant really moan about the lack of run time

[@jmackinjersey1]

@@Migman2020 That and the fact that you can easily change out the batteries and charge that one, or simply have a few on hand. Yes, they are a little pricey, but I believe they will pay for themselves in the long run with lack of maintenance and no need to buy/mix fuel and oil etc. You can get a little more initial run time out of the gas powered unit, but if you are doing a long run like an entire block, or a huge area, like a parking lot, then you'd be better off getting a walk behind machine, or an attachment for a skid steer or other machine. These are also great for cutting concrete culverts and drain pipes.

[@adeptronic]

I tend to agree however there are electric concrete saws that are cheaper and lighter. I would probably go electric inside a house.

[@lawncaredave4492]

I always smell the new tools, also love the smell of most ferts.

[@vacexpert2020]

My local FD just got a Milwaukee chop saw, we did a race shortly after we got it, we lit 2 shipping containers full of old gas and diesel that couldn't be run in vehicles or equipment stored in old fuel containers that either leaked or had other problems and couldn't be used, all around the fuel containers was hay and straw that vermin had ruined, they were set ablaze and after 30 seconds 2 teams ran forth to gain access and extinguish the flames, one had a Stihl K12 saw, the other had the Milwaukee, neither had fuel/batteries in but there was fuel/batteries on the truck and neither had been started at all that day in order to show worst case scenario, both were also in their respective storage compartments, team Milwaukee had their fire under control by the time team Stihl got the saw working, keep in mind it had just been tuned up by the local Stihl dealer, so it was running as best as it could, needless to say when that K12 got dropped through the roof of a structure a week later the neighboring FD got all new Milwaukee equipment and sold all their Stihl equipment, needless to say we now can have you out of your car in 2 minutes flat no matter the condition of the car

[@zackzander425]

Stihl TS700 all the way. This Milwaukee saw would be better for cutting CMUs. I tested it in the developmental stages before it came to market. Brought it to the job site a few years ago; it had like a truck battery in it. Very heavy but it was quiet.

[@jmackinjersey1]

Next time you do a horizontal cut, try resting your elbow/tricep in your rib cage for support. Also, where was the water to control the dust?

[@jamiedyer7782]

Good idea so when it kicks back it breaks your ribs as you fall over and the blade goes in your neck 👍🏻 you shouldn't cut above shoulder height as there is nowhere for the saw to go if it kicks up it will come out your hands

[@mopar2513]

Not a real test 🤦‍♂️I cut concrete for a living .. and no they did not cut any bar at all .. you would of seen sparks ⚡️ and to give it a real test cut all the way through the concrete with water 💦

[@josephnwaymanwayman5410]

Yep you would of definitely would of seen sparks if he was cutting rebar.

[@sikproductions9069]

No rebar no mesh no water no care for anyone

[@angelomartinez9422]

So you cut concrete for a living huh? No setting forms no pouring no finishing? Sound like a dumb ass labor to me shut your mouth and get back to your shovel while we all enjoy this awesome new invention.

[@ricardolopezjr8602]

Well I have that Milwaukee concrete saw cutter and it gets the job done, I sold all my gas tools instead my bobcat fastcat zero turn mower and my echo gas power 220 MPH 1110 CFM 79.9 cc Gas 2-Stroke X

[@ron1martens]

Love it. I'm sure if you cut wet will be better overall right? Also no fumes. Imagine cutting in pits. It will definitely be a plus using the battery unit.

[@trenttaylor1691]

I don’t think the water makes much difference for cutting but water definelty is good to keep the dust down, I don’t think il be buying one of these I mean it’s pretty awesome for a homeowner doin a little pad for a Neihbour

[@andrews5926]

I want AvE to do a tear down on that Milwaukee.

[@E69apeTheMatrix420]

It's a good stepping stone to for whats to come in the future. It's heavy, bulky, no e brake, lots of battery's needed just for a mornings work. Power needed to charge battery's all the time. Gen 3 will be much better

[@tonyslawncare]

Great video as always

[@misterbulger]

I always cut to full depth first go. The blade can warp cutting shallow and it can cause it to chip your nice clean cut. Find a 4" blade if youre just gonna cut a joint. Always use the smallest blade needed for the job. I get far more use out of my smaller slab saws than the big diesel saw for this reason. Even more important with a handheld since its less steady your chance of it chipping is even more.

[@jimp.4531]

Stan how about for vertical cuts all you need is a tri-pod counter weight.

[@daytonadub2206]

Its seems that it's more for convenience, inside a house something small...... NO BETTER SAW than that husky! Period, I did put small wheels on mine which works great for what we do when cutting our driveways, most of the time we cut on a diagonal, but you can cut super straight and it keeps the saw straight up and down. great video though coming from some Florida concrete Guys!!!! STAY HYDRATED!!!!! #ALTITUDE ADJUSTMENT

[@MrInfoPhilly]

My question is, can this saw run with water., since Osha requires water now with cutting concrete??? Never mind i see the hose attachment at 9:25 mark

[@brian5128]

You need to test the stihl concrete chainsaw

[@zack9912000]

Gas is substantially better then battery for large jobs, battery's are nice for small jobs or quick cuts.

[@bogdanmarkovic]

Why haven’t you used a water during cutting when obviously there was a house nearby? You maybe even have that Milwaukee cordless water sprayer. I mean it would make much less dust as well as prolong the life of diamond blade.

[@coffeebuzzz]

In Australia, dry cutting is virtually banned. Silicosis is just as bad as asbestosis and those pissy little disposable P2s are virtually useless. If I came out and saw my car covered in concrete dust because of nearby construction I would have chewed his arse and demanded he pay for a car detail.

[@alanshearer043]

I’ve noticed on a few videos they have been dry cutting. No excuses for this practice. It’s as dangerous as asbestos.

[@kizzjd9578]

@@coffeebuzzz Usa is behind in the times mate. 3rd world country.

[@patrickmiller1674]

Ontario is worst, and im glad. Our housing market cannot afford any more cost, and slower production.

[@blakehorn229]

​@kizz jd can it. Dry cutting is illegal here now too and if OSHA rolls up on them blowing dust like that without any of the approved dust mitigation going on these guys are in for a stop work and hefty fine. Don't talk about stuff you don't know about...didn't your uncle daddy teach you anything? 😂

[@preni428]

Battery is 600 bucks each plus the saw and didnt last very long.

[@ConstructionMachineryChannel]

I'd love to get one of these, tired of installing Holland pavers using a masonry blade on a miter saw. 👍

[@cameronabrams3285]

Just use a regular gas saw. The masonry company I work for has TS410s, 420s and a TS500i, and they have never missed a beat, and they're all used all day long (we have an apprentice who damn near never stops making cuts haha). The landscape companies near me all use TS410s and 420s for cutting pavers.

[@carloshurley4477]

Ive noticed saw overheats and needs to cool down after a couple of batteries worth of cutting.

[@theflyingfetus9405]

It seems like the gas is the real winner. Having to change batteries that frequently doesnt make sense to me. At $1000 more than its gas counterpart the value just isnt there in my opinion.

[@FishFind3000]

Plus $600 per battery

[@timothybayliss6680]

A new 70cc hilti is almost $1200 less and comes with diamond blades. The Milwaukee I was looking at also only had one battery. The cost benefit is crap. We have a Milwaukee chainsaw at work and the first thing you have to do is throw the .041 chain in the bin and put a proper .050 chain on it. The second thing you have to do is go get your Stihl because the battery is flat and the 12ah m18 battery takes almost four hours to charge. I have a Greenworks 40v 16" chainsaw and four batteries. With electric saws you will pay attention to how sharp your chain is all the time. This is a good idea horribly executed.

[@lmilne4859]

Gas is always the winner

[@blakehorn229]

This saw isn't meant for the work they are doing. It is specifically for indoor cuts...and most of the time you're not running long cuts in remod situations unless the designer you hired is green. We just picked one of these up to cut out the cutting company who stopped bringing out a helper to bring in their equipment but upped their rates...(so we are supplying a 25/hr general laborer to sit around from 8 am until whenever they decide to show up...2 days ago that happened to be 1pm...so after making the cut and getting equipment out at 3pm I not only paid the company their higher rate than last year but on top of that paid our guy to sit around doing nothing for 5 hours then another 3 til he could roll out. With that, this tool will pay for itself in 3 jobs max and we won't have to worry about damaging walls or floors when the cutters bring in their stuff and take it out. We design our bathrooms in basements to be within 10 feet or less of a main stack...so with our cross cuts and max span we will need 2 battery's to get the job done, will have zero downtime waiting for the sub to show up and will waste zero man hours having a laborer wait around and help lug around their 200lb saw/cart. This is perfect for remodeling situations where you can't run with fumes and even better when you don't have power on site. If you're doing 20 foot cuts at 4"+ on the regular then go elsewhere but we rarely have runs that long and if we do...we will call the sub to handle it and deal with the downtime as needed 😂

[@Migman2020]

They did say this saw is ment for enclosed spaces or where its just not practical to use a petrol disc cutter indoors where there is no power outlet yet etc.. I mean cost wise i think its a bit silly but compared to the high frequency disc cutters husqvarna offer. Milwaukee is way way cheaper

[@barronkistler1196]

I’m curious how Stihl’s electric saw would compare. Hopefully they’ll send you one to test

[@brandondavis6939]

Sthls will be better

[@ron1martens]

Barron Kistler. I have the cordless stihl. It's very good and real accurate. The noise is very low. I put masking tape on a paver and it cuts to the line very easy. The battery won't cut the length they are cutting on one charge. It's 230 mm blade which is nine inch. I mean how much cutting do people make in one day? They don't cut all day so having three batteries and using water has to be better, more quiet and not smelling fumes. Those masks won't do anything to protect anyone from exposure to poison from the gas saw.

[@jeremynguyen2346]

@@ron1martens what are some tips when using a concrete saw

[@JGrizzel]

Good review, however concrete cutting is measured in Inch Feet, so i believe Milwaukee was saying there's would cut 30 in feet [6 feet at 5 inches depth], so it looks like you were cutting about 2" depth which would be 30 to 40 in feet from what you said. The problem people encounter with battery powered saws, is burying it full depth [5"], that will kill battery life. So step cutting at 1.5-2" is the best way to maximize battery life.

[@garyblumberg2608]

Battery powered equipment just keeps getting more and more impressive

[@ynot6781]

Not this one , it's pricey garbage

[@caseybolen4107]

Looks like a solid saw but battery life leaves something to be desired.

[@augustreil]

Maybe mark on each blade with a marker for the depth, also I'm sure Sam could fab up a set of mini wheels for the husky. Thumbs up !

[@tucobenedicto109]

Great for concrete horizontal. If you were cutting 2" metal pipe on the wall above your head lit would be cumbersome. How about asphalt test?

[@wieprz00009]

Great! I like gas powered ring saws! Power and sound.

[@donaldeverette6498]

I'm impressed by the blades!

[@bladesdirect]

Thanks! They are game changers We’d love to earn your business 855-225-2337 or text the word SHOCKER to 313131 ✅

[@andyt4632]

Don’t understand why all the latest battery powered tools like that are so heavy, take the new stihl back pack for example, smart design but seriously lugging that around all day. Having said that the days of a fuel can and a funnel are slowing disappearing 👍

[@JG-jh6oe]

So when you say, "best" blade, I'm guessing for your rock and your area? Medium soft Aggregate? Have you tried them on hard aggregate?

[@Dirtmonkey]

use them on concrete basically

[@Nate_dumb]

The battery life makes it horrible for someone who has to cut 100 ft of concrete and asphalt in a day you'd need to wait for hour to keep charging those batteries and theyre so big that having multiple batteries is a hassle

[@timothybayliss6680]

It's not an hour, it's 90 minutes according to Milwaukee. They have a battery that charges in 30m but it's a third the size. This is a gimmick but a really shiny one.

[@Nate_dumb]

@@timothybayliss6680 still you can just use a stihl saw and get the same performance if not better and be able to run it allday and never have to worry about charging batteries trust me I am all for cordless but in my profession it just wouldn't cut it

[@bigdaddytizzle1]

Where's the depth guage that was random depths the entire way

[@GRUBB-MUDD]

Not a fan of the battery saws, especially the little ones, so how did this video do for you as far as click through rate, I expect pretty good, great title and thumbnail and most of all idea, I saw u on victorys channel lol

[@nursenic03]

My boss has a husq with wheels on it, great for joint cuts

[@IppiopaidFEEDBACK]

This would work in a basement were you don’t wanna breath in the all the off gases.

[@rdmurdock88]

That's exactly how we were using them... ended up renting a Husqvarna electric corded saw... much better

[@mcaudery]

You'd need like dozen batteries. Just get an electric saw.

[@Rkeiter]

Hey I just watched your video but what about the new silica dust standard???

[@FishFind3000]

He doesn’t care he doesn’t follow osha rules. That’s why he’s cutting without water, he wants a nice big fat fine from osha.

[@Rkeiter]

FishFind3000 lol

[@paullarson9734]

I would like to take this to the test at a concrete company i used to work for. think it would be interesting to see. we used the husqvarna K-970 to cut precast concrete for buildings. good test to do i think.

[@jeremiahfranz6286]

How much can one battery cut of a 4" thick basement floor? I do plumbing

[@leelantern805]

Awazing what batteries can do today

[@raulruizrivera5642]

770 is the best saw Ive had

[@bladesdirect]

Great saw

[@tonysylvester721]

For a minute, it looked like something you would ride.😎

[@santiagorubio4574]

My personal opinion , Milwaukee makes great power tools , and can’t blame them for new innovations ,but there is nothing like gas powered , it’s good for a emergency , but it’s a expensive alternative for what you need , I’m sure the batteries will improve , but for now I’ll stick to my husqvarna,

[@rebel1333frank]

I'd like to see the next video cutting 5 inch concrete... 32 mPa

[@mcaudery]

Battery and weight makes this a complete waste of space and the fact that this got to market is appalling by Milwaukee

[@cashmoney7497]

Im not sure it’s there yet. I’ll stick to the stihl ts420

[@Cohhor]

So roughly 30 feet for 2 battery’s and it takes 30 minutes to charge? Until battery life improves I’m sticking with grabbing a Jerry can. Lol.

[@andrewc9790]

Someone needs to figure out a way to test the price of the battery vs the equivalent in gas. Maybe a full battery run time vs the equivalent in gas used × the estimated charge cycles. ?????

[@Cohhor]

Sounds like a job for Project farm.

[@andrewc9790]

@@Cohhor Yeah, maybe!

[@willb3018]

@@Cohhor 👍

[@willb3018]

Cordless tools have their place. This just isn't it.

[@CrazyBikerGuy]

😂 I'll stick to gas

[@brandondavis6939]

Can't wait till hydrogen poweres the world and I got more power since hydrogen is more flamable has way more energy

[@tsnorquist]

Looks like this would make a better cordless miter saw vs concrete saw. Battery tech and weight not there for this application yet. Maybe a walk behind cart with the saw and with more batteries might be an option, but I just don't see it....

[@misterbulger]

The dust cloud in the thumbnail had me triggered lmao. I think id go corded electric + a generator before a battery myself. If i need a demo saw i usually need to run it a lot and im likey using a generator for the charger anyhow.

[@guwop2234]

1 saw was cutting deeper, not even cuts at all. do u guys even use these saws for work or just for tool reviews

[@TheElectrican]

So im not the only weirdo that smells new tools 🤣

[@qualityearthworkhaulingllc3679]

Kobalt must of paid a lot for that shirt placement.

[@tabranch3165]

🌲 hi Stan , dig the videos .I'm offff grid and out of touch ,but when Iget in town I watch your Chanel ,always 👍🏻 and comment 🙋🏼‍♂️ 🌲

[@BearCat459]

Is your strip lighting sound active?

[@Tezliolansti7]

The power appears IMPRESSIVE. The longevity is a joke... The wheels are only convenient on flat solid surfaces, therefore making the Milwakee too bulky for any other uses. My conclusion is that gas is still superior, but Milwakee did an AWESOME flex with that tool. I can see it being useful to make cuts on block, but if you don’t have a power source to keep the batteries charged up, then you’re out of luck unless you like hauling a generator and extra gas around. The best thing I got out of this video is that badass saw blade and a website to go to

[@joshuaparsons5720]

I don't know about longevity being a joke. I've owned this saw for almost 2 years now and it hasn't let me down yet. Battery lasts about 45 mins on full charge yeah it could be better but not having to breath in gas fumes all day in a confined space is a big plus

[@granthorak8848]

Battery life sucked, but what I’m curious about is depth for each one. Hid how deep each one was cutting. Also the depth they did show was no where close to deep enough to break up the concrete unless you’re using that big excavator.... like them.

[@heli400]

I saw a display at home depot just yesterday, the battery alone is $799 cdn (smh)

[@99beta]

They battery capacity is actually very small. The battery is 72 volts with 6Ahr capacity. E-bike batteries go up to 72V with 40Ah and cost $1200 each.

[@raunefare]

I was expecting 1000-1500whr not 400. That's a joke for the price

[@raunefare]

Especially when other garden to tool brands make 500whr batteries for 3-400$

[@timothybayliss6680]

I was thinking the same thing. My Greenworks 40v 4ah batteries are 146w, roughly a third (it's exactly a third if you do the math), and you can buy them for 1/6 the cost of this big battery.

[@richardsedorski1206]

Good vid no stuttering.

[@warrenbell496]

Hydraulic hand saw all the way!

[@rafaelmolina123]

I can't use this on wall cutting especially horizontal cuts

[@isaacjacobs9789]

Could you put wheels on the gas saw

[@jonnyg44]

Isn't the milwalkee like $2.5k vs stihl/husky at $1.2k. Not exactly fair, but those wheels are cool though

[@xenonram]

This would be good for cutting rebar... NOT concrete.

[@desert07576]

Grinder does it for less

[@connorelder5798]

Nobody gonna comment on why he has a flying squirrel

[@Mycleansierra]

Ikr I thought the same

[@bjgarbacz1]

The schokers are amazing love them man

[@bladesdirect]

Appreciate that!!!

[@lsellclumanetsolarenergyll5071]

LOL Stan we love you.... be human :-) and why don't they have BRIGHT RED LIGHTS ?!?!?!!? Milwaukee RED !!!!

[@TheFastphill]

why not cut at full depth i guess up are removing the whole deck

[@PatrickPecoraro]

I find one battery lasts about 15-20 min. If you want to be able to use it non stop you really need 4 batteries not 2.

[@kylevitti232]

Flying squirrel!!! Ours is named Marylin

[@tylerliddicoat6440]

Dude pulls a f*****g squirrel out his shirt. HAHAHA

[@Braelynnsuttle]

Milwaukee is very heavy n don’t last long good for indoor.gas power rules

[@MrGameing101]

Great video with great tests and really respect your opinions and the way you test tools. I'd be curious to know how the battery saw holds up over the course of a season seeing regular use

[@ynot6781]

Crappy video , crappy insanely expensive saw that nobody will be buying . I've used it , nothing about this saw is practical , they won't last and completely useless in cold weather . Maintaince will cost your first born .

[@andrewscott8892]

A charger is $199 and a battery is $599

[@broncobart4354]

I guess Richard Rawlings is doing tool reviews now?

[@chrisleslie1988]

Comments on what others said plus you’re supposed to start and cut right away and gas you’re supposed to fire up and then cut Not wait for gas to start

[@retepnosbig4859]

if you're gonna do horizontal cuts then forget it. but if you're gonna do horizontal cuts then you're in!

[@chrischiampo7647]

Who’s Got The Time To Wait For Batteries To Charge I’ll Stick With My TS-420 Stihl 😊😊

[@MyHMMWVaddiction]

Sorry, but for indoor work I'll stick with my PP-65 hi frequency demo, ring and chainsaw. I'm a professional concrete cutter. The Milwaukee saw is useless for me. Now, give it a few years I'll be working with a gangbox size Tesla battery for an 8 hour shift. PS save your lungs and use water.

[@justjacqueline2004]

This is where physical chemistry meets the reality of the green agenda,sadly and reality physics wins.The energy density of the carbohydrate fuel is just greater than that of the battery until that is resolved batteries are a mere placebo to a politically driven agenda that has ignored the physics until it bites you. Nice comparison nice video and I can see why Milwaukee was only "lending" that saw to hard nosed work men who know the value of money.Particularly when you have sweated for it.But well done them and nice video.

[@robodude169]

If ur just cutting 1 inch on material then yes 15ft. If you actually bury the blade and cut all the way through it will be more like 6ft.

[@bobbobbob6641]

No water?

[@dirtmonkeyjr.8005]

I like the gas one better

[@mrmoto2443]

I was super excited about the electric quick cuts until I visited Hilti!!

[@jeffpowell8308]

I'll tell you one thing that I love about the Milwaukee is no fumes. We did a project last summer where we had a Mason create new openings in in solid brick walls for a 5' door and 2 windows. We put up plastic on the interior to keep the dust down but there was no stopping the fumes from his stihl gas saw. Our masks could not protect us from it. We lost several days of work on the inside of the house (we also had to replace the ceiling in the living room and dining rooms) because it was not safe for us inside. Also I've used them in the past to cut through foundation walls for egress windows in the past (cutting from the outside) and in a hand dug hole I would have liked to not had the fumes there as well.

[@robb1165]

Tip: Place a fan on the opposite side of the house blowing into the house. It should be large enough to pressurize the house, you will see the plastic sheet bulge out. May need to place plastic to duct the fan into the door. This will help keep most everything out of the house.

[@1stfloorguy59]

No water for dust control? And you didn’t even sink the blade =(