Harley Davidson 440X Model Release

[@positivelynegative9149]

Good info. 👍

[@cycletron]

Thank you.✌️

[@sathishrao7926]

Note that “On-road” price (which includes registration, Insurance etc…) of these motorcycles is around 3500 USD in India.. Triumph already crossed 10000 bookings (I’m around 5500 !), so the “introductory price” is no longer applicable, but it’s not a big deal since the “early bird discount” was just around 120 USD ! Also Scrambler 400 (expected to be available in October) is going to cost slightly more and its price is not yet revealed..

[@cycletron]

Thanks Sathish. Enjoy your 409 Street when you take delivery! It should be a wonderful bike.

[@sathishrao7926]

@@cycletron Thanks.. Triumph eliminated their ‘Street’ series by renaming ‘Street Twin’ to ‘Speed 900’, so the new 400 is ‘Speed 400’ 🙂

[@brucesantacory1390]

i agree with you CJ, Harley needs the Entry level bikes , people forget in the 70's when boomers like me we getting into bikes in jr high and high school we were buying the Italian made SX dual sport dirt bikes and the Sprint all made by Aermacchi in Italy then as us boomers grew up and started buying the Evo's 1st the FXR's and FXD's and then the Softails and now in our 60's and 70's were on the touring bikes, and what Harley is missing are the bikes we started on, and they were not made in America either, so i don't see the issue and i would love to see both the Chinese and Indian bikes in the showrooms, and as to harley's attempt at electric bikes, at least here in new england the dealers have rejected them, there are none on any showrooms in the 6 states up here that i have seen, and my dealership owns 5 dealers and they had 1 and it took so long to dump it off they said no more, electric is a con job that our great great grandfathers rejected over 100 years ago, and if we learn from history we will also reject electric as a fools game

[@cycletron]

Thank you Bruce. I think there is a small place in the market for electric vehicles and even electric motorcycles under very limited circumstances. I am not in favor of the wholesale push from governments and corporations to go all electric. I think it will backfire fairly soon, especially when people figure out there isn't enough electrical generating and transmission capacity to replace transportation fuels.

[@WOLFIE-96B-UK]

I personally think HD are onto a winner with this bike. The mere fact that it has the bar and shield on the tank will attract many younger riders worldwide, it's such an iconic brand and represents to most bikers all that is great about the USA. However, I totally understand why it not being made in America could be a big problem Stateside. 🇬🇧

[@cycletron]

Thanks for your comments. It looks like a fun bike.

[@turbosure7873]

If these bikes are reliable and fun to ride they'll bring in buyers that normally wouldn't be looking at a Harley. And if the dealers treat this customers well there will certainly be some opportunities to upsell down the road. There will be some flack about not being made here but having an affordable entry level bike that helps keep the doors open and the lights on is a good thing.

[@cycletron]

I agree. HD needs to show some leadership and make these model available at a good price here in the U.S., Canada and elsewhere.

[@neilkropelnicki1790]

I think Harley has come a long way within the past 4 years and I truly believe they stick to what they're plan originally was and that is built an American made motorcycle And I hope Everything is okay with your wife you're in my thoughts and prayers God bless you and your family

[@cycletron]

Thank you sir, we really appreciate it! Ride safe this season.

[@stevenrice8439]

I would expect a base price closer to 5500 knowing Harley.

[@cycletron]

True. But they won't sell many at that price just like when the first charged $30,000 for the LiveWire.

[@stuglenn1112]

I would like to see Harley sell this bike here in the US, but it really doesn't matter what I think, the dealers are the ones who need to want this bike. Seems to me the dealers didn't have a lot of love for Buell, the V-rod or the Street, if they treat this bike the same way it will probably fail here.

[@cycletron]

Yes and don't forget the LiveWire. My local dealer made fun of potential LiveWire customers by calling them man-bun, Birkenstock sandal types.

[@johnludmon510]

This new bike should be sold in existing markets it just has to be a good bike at the right price. What sunk the street 750 was it wasn’t very good especially when you compared it with the Japanese competition which is why people who don’t buy Harley’s didn’t buy one. The traditional Harley owners for all the shouting about” not made here”were never going to buy one even if was made in America. This 400 could encourage new buyers and new riders into the dealerships they will just have to accept that there is no margin for the “Harley premium”in this very competitive sector of the market .

[@cycletron]

You make great points. HD needs to push through the inevitable resistance and get this bike broad distribution if they ever plan to generate new customers.

[@Stevel_]

I used to say "A Triumph is like a Harley Davidson that went to college". Unfortunately they are all made in Thailand now, so have lost a lot of (all) their old world authenticity and brand cache to me.

[@cycletron]

Yes and Triumph goes to great lengths to disguise this fact, even including squirrely VINs to confuse what the country of origin is. Reminds me of another company with the initials H.D. relative to sourcing of foreign made parts. lol

[@geneclarke2205]

I don't think so. For a dealer there isn't enough sales margin, there isn't enough parts upgrade revenue, and after the warranty period service will drop off since these will be easy to self maintain. Also, Royal Enfield has established itself in the US and the bikes get good reviews as RE continues to work on quality and releasing new models. The bikes I'm impressed with are the KTM 390 Duke and 390 Adventure which have significant upgrades for 2023. I would look at the KTM 390 Adventure @ $7,500 as my knockaround second bike. What I believe HD needs is the Bronx and 975 Pan America in the US as entry level rides of other brands will look at these as an upgrade and a lighter 975 for those wanting to downsize. But then there's the bigger discussion on where the motorcycle industry in the US is going over then next 5+ years and, given overall demand, will manufacturers start to cut models coming into the US.

[@cycletron]

Thanks Jim. We are already seeing many bikes that are for sale everywhere in the world except the U.S. Inline 4s appear to be a dying breed although that is what I have been riding lately. I am thinking that the business model for selling these small bikes in the U.S. would be to develop future HD customers, but I suspect you are right about there being a lot of resistance given the low margins.

[@geneclarke2205]

@@cycletron I remember years ago walking into my dealer in November / December and the only bikes in the showroom where unsold Streets and used HD's. The Streets were even discounted and not moving. Small displacement just seems out of place in a US HD dealer. It would like Freightliner wanting to sell 1/4 ton pickup trucks.

[@cycletron]

@@geneclarke2205 I suppose you are right Gene. I just keep thinking that they have to do something to get new customers on their bikes. A $15k Nightster or Del Mar is just not going to do it.

[@dutchyjhome]

Hey there, well what's new really..? I mean since the EVO engine The Harley Davidson company turned more and more from a true motorcycle manufacturer into a motorcycle assembly plant in which they more and more put purchased and developed parts from manufactures from all over the world together in what they tend to call a true American (assembled) Motorcycle. Look closely at all parts: All electronics (ignition, injection)in Harley Davidson Motorcycles are Japanese (Denso) or European German (Bosch), The cockpit usually is Japanse to begin with. The front forks are Japanese mostly and made by Showa which is a Honda company. Brakes mostly are European Italian made by Brembo. The engines mostly are designed and developed by European Germany company of Porsche (Big Twins and V-ROD) and the European Austrian company of Rotax (MT 350, Sportster-S and Pan American and some fast watercooled Buell engines) The tires Harley Davidson usually come with are from the European Irish company of Dunlop. The fairings (Tour bikes) usually are Chinese made, so is most of the lighting, do I really need to go in every detail to make a point here..? Wrapped up it's like this: The Harley Davidson Company does not do any research and development them selves at all. They actually do the right thing, like most Motorcycle and car manufactures do: They purchase parts all over the world at manufactures whom are specialized in certain area of vehicle tech and so it is the obvious thing to do, since all of these specialists from all over the world can deliver a much higher standard of product than HD can research, design and develop themselves. For your perspective: BMW does exactly the same, Ural Motorcycles does the same virtually all big make do so... Nothing new here. Just get straight in your mind that there does not exist something like a true All American Motorcycle, and no that also goes for your Electra Glide, for any glide for all that matters. The last Big-twin engine HD did the research, design and development of was the Shovelhead motor. And the very last engine HD did research, design and development for was the old EVO Sportster line up, based basically on the tech The Porsche company provided HD with while doing the Bigtwin EVO research, design and development of. So, Harley Davidson bikes from China or India...? Sure what's new..? 1

[@cycletron]

You are right on target! The all-American HD brand left the building a long time ago. I think the plan is to ultimately close their York, Pennsylvania plant in favor of all overseas assembly.

[@karrpilot7092]

Cessna tried that. An entry level aircraft, Chinese parts, final assembly in the USA. It failed miserably. The prices weren't as low as they targeted. The waiting length was too long, and pretty much the stigma of Chinese parts didn't help. Don't think Harley Davidson will have any better luck following in Cessna footsteps

[@cycletron]

That is a good example of what HD could be facing. HD customers have a history of rejecting bikes that don't fit the classic customer profile. The LiveWire and Street models are just recent examples although they were assembled in the U.S.

[@scotthunter9332]

I think Harley could use the exit level strategy just as effective as entry level. As a 60 year old rider I know I will transition to a lighter bike as I age. I still want the cornering a trike just can't offer. There are just as many retirees on a fixed income as boomers with deep pockets who want to ride a MOTORCYCLE.

[@cycletron]

I agree with you. Downsizing to a bike that has lower weight and smaller displacement can allow people to extend their riding by many years. Like you, I have zero interest in a trike.

[@twotone3471]

Harley's afraid of what BMW has been doing for years. The 310's they sell have not "diluted the brand" and if anything have kept perspective riders coming into dealers. Harley could use some of that kind of approachability. I think they won't for some time, however. The stockholders are focused on profit per unit sold, so selling a $4k bike in the US would be a disaster, even if it sold like hotcakes.

[@cycletron]

Yes, great point. I forgot about the unit profit metric of $3,700 per bike that HD has been bragging about at their last few quarterly earnings calls. Being a publicly traded company with such short term focus is ruining HD.

[@MoxyDave]

I think it's unlikely they will offer it here. They have too much overhead with their dealer network. Their prices have been exorbitantly high for so long, I just don't think they can suffer the low margins. Not to mention the "Made in USA" heritage that will drive away so many Harley fans when they find out their precious is doing them dirty by selling them an Indian motorcycle. Truth be told, India can make a great bike. My KTM Duke 390 was made in India and my only complaint is the soft fasteners. Otherwise it's an exceptional and reliable bike. If Harley would be willing to accept lower margins across the board, maybe they could make it work but I really don't think they will.

[@cycletron]

Yes, that is a good point. They are awfully proud of their $3,700 average profit per bike!

[@jamessouthworth1699]

I would buy a Japanese bike with a Japanese badge but I will not buy a Chinese bike with a Harley badge. Hell, I wouldn't even buy a Chinese bike with a Chinese badge. Harley should have reintroduced the engine from the Buell Blast in a better-looking package. That would be an entry-level Harley I could get on board with. As the market looks right now the Honda CBR 500 or Rebel 500 are the best deals in motorcycling.

[@cycletron]

Yes, HD's mistakes with Buell continue to reverberate through the years!

[@simongilbert2704]

not a triumph lover , but i think they have beaten harley to the game this time ..

[@cycletron]

I agree, those triumphs look really nice.

[@robbieracer3294]

Yea there's no way Harley would sell a bike that cheap here...if it does come here, it'll probably be around 5 grand which no thanks, I'd buy a Royal Enfield over that. I've already seen comments on videos from Indian people and the ones I saw, they don't want a fake Harley either

[@cycletron]

Thanks for weighing in. You are probably right but I could also could see them trying to sell them here to serve as a Trojan horse for introducing foreign made bikes into the U.S. market. But like you say, if it costs too much, nobody would buy it anyway.

[@twotone3471]

Royal Enfield uses the India market to iron out the kinks in models before exporting them. The first Himalayan bikes they sold were tripe. The video that they used had parts falling off the bike on the video they published. The Himalayan of today is considered a quality bike, with the main reliability issues fairly ironed out. The domestic market took the hit, and the export market benefited. Speaking of the somewhat poky Himalayan, it's getting a bump in displacement from 411 to 450cc and a facelift too. If Harley wants to rumble, bringing a inexpensive, midsize bike to the US market, they need a ADV in that 400cc range more than a forgettable street bike. Aiming at the Himalayan would be a better fit than trying to dethrone the Honda Rebel 500 as the beginner cruiser king.

[@robbyclark6915]

I agree that they need an entry level motorcycle but this one is not a good choice for the US market. The Triumph 400s are much better looking and likely much better performance than this little baby Harley. I mean a person would outgrow it in a month! The 883 was a much better option albeit too heavy and too expensive. I just don’t see this little squirt selling here. It just seems too beginner friendly.

[@cycletron]

Those are great points Robby. I guess I was thinking is that if they can an offer an expensive electric bicycle for sale, they could also offer something like this. But Harley being Harley they would probably want to sell it for $7,000 out the door. LOL.

[@frankfurther3828]

HD's products from Jhina and the peddlers of the idea are doomed. HD Inc. is actively blending into the background with all of the other MC manufacturers, instead of being the standout as the most-sought-after American-made Patriotic purchase for the working class. Let's remember how a Harley was 96% Union-Made HERE, and the other important 4% was made by our FRIENDS in Japan. Built by and for middle class Americans. When a used dresser in the mid 90s with 20k miles sold for MORE than a new unit at the dealer because you could buy it that day. A full dresser cost about $14-16K back then. Every unit got sold. And we all know that their philosophy is: Guys that think like me won't last long. So FHD, F Jochen.

[@cycletron]

Harley also closed their assembly plant in Kansas City after 20 years and millions of dollars in tax breaks. Before they closed they substituted non-benefit contract workers for many union positions. I remember the boom time of the 90's and early 2000's. Harley sold their biggest total of bikes in 2006 with 360,000 motorcycles. It has been downhill ever since.

[@frankfurther3828]

@@cycletron I wish we could go back to the late 80s when their future was boundless. Now they're just like a Suzuki or a Honda Company. They entered a large field that they can't compete in. The more they try, the more diluted they become.They have forsaken the powerplant and the people that have made the Co the Kings of their once-loyal demographic.

[@frankfurther3828]

@@cycletron They may feel that they will outlive voices like mine, but I don't think they will. Let's remember Sears. Then they got owned by Kmart. We know the outcome. And just prior to that outcome, Craftsman tools were imported instead of made here with a lifetime warranty.

[@cycletron]

@@frankfurther3828 Yes, I agree with you. I think they are headed for the exit in the next few years. They have over $5 Billion in debt and the high interest rates causing finance losses and the losses with LiveWire will end up burying them in all probability.

[@cycletron]

@@frankfurther3828 True. They have basically become a metric brand and now have to compete with all of the other metric brands who do it better. Harley's cache of American built bikes for the middle class has given way to foreign sourcing, closing their Kansas City plant and now aspiring to to become a luxury brand for top paying customers only.

[@seavee2000]

Nope.