HARMONIC ATHEIST - Summer Biby: "I Studied My Way Out of Christianity"

[@joelmouton9365]

I definitely deconverted properly. It took me about 10 years to deconvert. I was raised in fundamentalists Christianity. I finally deconverted at 38 years old. I was raised Assembly of God.

[@michaelannen4168]

I had to check if l wrote your comment, assembly of god, 38 years old, 10 years conversion. That's me

[@ImOddTodd]

Don't feel so bad to leave AOG. It took until I was in my early 50's and at least 3 years to get free off it. I was a worship leader since 16, helped start churches, yet I'm still married to the same wonderful AOG woman for 43 years.

[@kaceesnow]

It took me about a month.

[@rizdekd3912]

Interesting...that's about the length of time I'd put for my deconversion. It was very gradual, unemotional, thorough and deliberate. I often wonder about those who are atheists and then return directly to the particular god belief they left. It seems maybe they didn't think it through or never actually lost their foundational god belief. Because truly, once someone actually thinks through the issue from all angles and addresses all the questions/arguments for the existence of god I just can't see why they'd return. For me, becoming an atheist meant first, realizing all these 'experts' and apologists really don't KNOW anything about it...leastwise not more than me. That change happened while I was in college...a small denominational school where I took several Bible/religion courses. I had to come to the conclusion, rightly or wrongly that I knew as much about theistic issues as anyone including my professors, the so called historical figures like Aquinas,, Augustine, CSLewis and many famous apologists today. Oh they've got book learnin' and know all the fancy terms and logical premises, but they don't know anything about whether those premises are actually true. IOW, their arguments could work if the premises are true, but I don't know that they're true and I know they don't know that those premises are true. Second, I had to work through each conundrum/question/argument that anyone thought the existence of god solved and figure HOW important those are and whether I had other 'non-divine' explanations. Once I realized my explanations were at lease as viable as god as an explanation, there was no longer any basis for me to be convinced a god exists. The theistic arguments no longer have leverage. Even if ALL my criticisms of a given religion like Christianity or the Abrahamic religions can be answered, it still doesn't mean that that god exists. And if just 'some' god exists...some creator about which we know nothing, it's really not a big deal. So what if there is an 'intelligent designer' or a 'first mover?'

[@dodget3]

Same

[@RenovatedJon]

Great interview. I'm also a lotto winner. It often occurs to me how lucky I am to have thought my way out of Christianity in my early 20's.

[@HarmonicAtheist]

You hit the jackpot! I am a little jealous :)

[@letahamilton2754]

@@JR-yb8jp only if you believe that, which many do not. I live a fantastically fulfilling life & have not one iota of fear or worry about hell because it doesn’t exist. It’s made up. The only “hell” there is, is the one we make in our own minds through our beliefs. No way do I miss Christianity. We’re more evolved as a species when we discard beliefs such as religion.

[@LM-jz9vh]

@@JR-yb8jp The god of the Bible isn't real. The Canaanite pantheon was conceived as a divine clan, headed by the *supreme god El;* the gods collectively made up the *Elohim.* Through the centuries, the pantheon of Canaanite gods evolved, so that *El and Asherah* were more important in earlier times, while *Baal* and his consorts came to fore in later years. *Asherah* - early semitic Mother goddess, "Lady of the sea," *consort of El,* also called Athirat, *the mother of 70 male gods* *El* - the *chief deity,* god of the sky, *father of many lesser gods* and ruler of the divine assembly, *also worshiped by the Israelites* *El Elyon* -Special title of El as *"God most High"* The Book of Genesis itself describes the *patriarch Abraham* as a worshiper of El-also called El Shaddai and *El Elyon* -- building altars, offering sacrifices, and paying tithes to him. ------------------------------------------------------------------ *In Reference to Deuteronomy 32:8-9* "I should add here that it is very clear from the grammar that the noun nachalah in v. 9 should be translated “inheritance.” *Yahweh receives Israel as his “inheritance” (nachalah), just as the other sons of El received their nations as their inheritance (nachal, v. 8).* With this verb, especially in the Hiphil, the object is always what is being given as an inheritance. Thus, Israel is given to Yahweh as his inheritance.6 It would make no sense for Elyon to give himself an inheritance. *Moreover, as I’ve argued elsewhere, it is not just the Gentile nations that are divided up according to the number of the sons of El.* It is all of humankind, i.e., “the sons of Adam.” This clearly includes Israel. And the sons of Adam are not divided up according to the number of the sons of El, plus one (i.e., plus Elyon). *They are divided up, according to the text, solely according to the number of the sons of El.* ***Thus, that Yahweh receives Israel as his inheritance makes Yahweh one of the sons of El mentioned in v. 8. Any other construal of the text would constitute its rewriting."*** *Deuteronomy 32:8* *When Elyon (El) gave to the nations their allotted inheritances,* when he divided the sons of Adam, he established the boundaries of the peoples *according to the number of the sons of El* (El and Asherah had *70* sons and in line with the Table of Nations in Genesis 10 *(70 nations)* each son *(Elohim)* received a particular territory or people like the Canaanite god Chemosh in Numbers 21:29) Yahweh’s portion was his people, Jacob, the lot of his allotted inheritance *(Yahweh was given Israel by his father, the chief Canaanite god El).* *Psalm 82* *’Elohim (Yahweh)* stands in the *council of ’El (chief Canaanite god)* In the midst of the gods *(Elohim)* he holds judgment. “How long will you judge unjustly, and show partiality to the wicked? Selah Render justice to the weak and the fatherless; vindicate the afflicted and the destitute. Rescue the weak and the needy; deliver them from the hand of the wicked.” They have neither knowledge nor understanding; they walk around in darkness; all the foundations of the earth are shaken. I said, “You are gods (Elohim), sons of Elyon (El), all of you; nevertheless, you shall die like mortals, and fall like any prince.” Rise up, O *’Elohim (Yahweh),* judge the earth; for you shall inherit the nations! Google *"The Most Heiser: Yahweh and Elyon in Psalm 82 and Deuteronomy 32 - Religion at the Margins"* based on the *majority scholarly consensus.* Watch Dr Christine Hayes who lectures on the Hebrew Bible at Yale University. Watch lecture 7 from 30:00 minutes onwards and lecture 8 from 12:00 to 19:00 minutes. ------------------------------------------------------------------ Google *"Jews and Arabs Descended from Canaanites - Biblical Archaeology Society."* Google *"The Canaanites weren't annihilated, they just 'moved' to Lebanon - The Times of Israel."* Google *"Canaanite Religion - New World Encyclopaedia."* Google *"Canaanite Religion - **Realhistoryww.com**"* (You can read about El the husband of Asherah (Athirat) and the fictional father of Baal, Yahweh, Anath and other fictional Canaanite gods here) Google *"Canaanite Phoenician Origin of the God of the Israelites."* Google *"God's Wife Edited Out of the Bible - Almost."* (Pay attention to whose wife Asherah (Athirat) is in the Canaanite/Ugaritic texts and how she becomes the consort of Yahweh as he became the top god in the pantheon and was merged/conflated with El and Baal) Google *"Yahweh's Divorce from the Goddess Asherah in the Garden of Eden - Mythology Matters."* Google *"Married Deities: Asherah and Yahweh in Early Israelite Religion - Yahweh Elohim."* Google *"Seminary - Hebrew Goddess; Asherah, the Shekinah, consort of Yahweh."* Google *"The Gates of Ishtar - Anath in the Elephantine Papyri."* (It seems in addition to Asherah that the Canaanite goddess Anath was also a consort of Yahweh at one time) Google *"How the Jews Invented God and Made Him Great- Archaeology - Haaretz."* Google *"Yahweh - **WorldHistory.Org.**"* Google *"The Invention of God - Maclean's"* Google *"The Boundaries of the Nations - Yahweh Elohim."* Google *"How Did the Bible’s Editors Conceal Evidence of Israelite Polytheism - Evolution of God by Robert Wright."* Google *"A Theologically Revised Text: Deuteronomy 32:8-9 - Ancient Hebrew Poetry."* Google *"Biblical Contradiction #3: Which God is the Creator of the Heavens and Earth: Yahweh or El?"* Google *"Biblical Contradiction #27. Are Yahweh and El the Same God or Not?"* Google *"Mark Smith: "Yahweh as El’s Son & Yahweh's Ascendancy - Lehi's Library."* Google *"Quartz Hill School of Theology - B425 Ugarit and the Bible."* Google *"The Origins of Yahweh and the Revived Kenite Hypothesis - Is That in the Bible?"* Google *"Yahweh, god of metallurgy - Fewer Lacunae."* Google *"Polytheistic Roots of Israelite Religion - Fewer Lacunae."* Google *"Biblical Polytheism - Bob Seidensticker."* Google *"Combat Myth: The Curious Story of Yahweh and the Gods Who Preceded Him - Bob Seidensticker."* Google *"Religious Studies: El, Yahweh and the Development of Monotheism in Ancient Israel."* Google *"Decoupling YHWH and El - Daniel O. McClellan."* Google *"Yhwh, God of Edom - Daniel O. McClellan."*

[@LeeByerly]

I feel the same way, like I've been freed from the deepest prison.

[@larrys9879]

Studying and researching the real historical origins and evolution of both the Bible and the Christian faith killed my “faith”. It’s important to recognize that apologetics isn’t history, it’s mythology deliberately misrepresented as history.

[@emilywyatt9340]

I studied first the Jewish responses to Christianity, then the pagan origins of Judaism and Christianity. Never going back😊.

[@DHizzle82]

I'm new to your channel and new to Summer. I've deconverted and left Christianity within the past year. My wife hasn't taken that news very well. Summer's story is very refreshing and inspiring. It gives me hope that one day my wife will join me on my journey. Like Summer, she too, is very involved at church. She teaches in the kids areas a few Sundays each month. She teaches Pre-k at a Christian preschool. One of her main points of contention with me leaving the faith is that I'm telling her what she's doing is wrong, that I don't value her or what she does. It's her whole identity, or so she thinks. I'd love to help her see that she can have a meaningful and purposeful life outside of Christianity.

[@HarmonicAtheist]

Hi, Daniel, you definitely have my best wishes for your situation -- very similar to mind, it sounds. Feel free to reach out if you think you'd be interested in an interview. [e-mail]

[@graceorchard]

I feel for your situation there. It must be hard on both of you. I'm a Christian leader, but I don't get upset when people leave the faith. I'm listening to these stories and reading comments to see what is happening to people. My one response to the meaningful and purposeful life outside Christianity is that religion, etc. is just the vehicle. We are supposed to live a full life. The Bible's message, no matter how much it's preached or taken out of context, is about the flourishing of humanity and human life. It's very, very hard to see with so many competing voices out there.

[@exjwwokeup1617]

New subscriber here! Love your channel! I spent 27 years in the cult of Jehovah’s Witnesses. I woke up on May 4th 2019 Been educating myself about how everything I knew was a lie, bible is not from God, and learning to connect with people.

[@HarmonicAtheist]

Awesome!

[@stevendavid9196]

I was the RJ REYNOLDS tobacco company with the cia illuminati and scientist with NASA religious studies program! We spent billions to prove that the bible is real and that the Jehovah witnesses religion is the truth! I left the cia illuminati and now on my way to getting baptized now! I meet TONY MORRIS AT the beginning of my religious experiment and will meet him again ! I started the experiment at 10 years of age and now I'm 44! I was once the RICHEST man on earth! I gave up my old life and changed my way! ANTHONY said when I find the truth you can go to the kingdom Hall! ANTHONY WAS WITH NASA!

[@romeochavez8788]

Steven David Do you believe in God?

[@kevincream5864]

Lets be clear .... Christianity and the JW are not the same , ,, You left a cult but unlike Summer you never left the One true God ...

[@stevendavid9196]

@@romeochavez8788 yes I believe JEHOVAH is the true God! We know for sure from science experiment!

[@offline34]

Wow Tim, this is an awesome interview! There are many talking points I resonate with! I'm in transition from faith to reasonable life... It has been a challenge internally. Her story about crying herself to sleep because of the fear of hell is EXACTLY what I went through. There is still that fear that tries to creep up on me. It's that childhood indoctrination I was programmed with. Keep up this rewarding work Tim!

[@HarmonicAtheist]

Thank you very much! It sounds like you have a story to tell too. If you feel like you'd be interested in doing an interview at some point, feel free to reach out: [e-mail].

[@timetoreason181]

Fear; do not tell me about it. I started questioning when I was around 12 but thought I was silly as I was a kid then, but it grew more, more the I read the Bible on my own through the years but I hid it from the rest, my family, my church peers, my Christian friends I grew up with. It was trauma losing them, above all the fear of eternal damnation which was drilled into my bones. When I eventually left around 19 I was into anxiety attacks and depression. I had to start my life all over again with new friends, which I call a new world. It was the eastern wisdoms that calmed me down. Yes I did pay a big price as I was born into [there was no free will there] but fully worth the trouble, as I consider it is a blessing in disguise now as I can see two extreme world views, the middle east and the east. Hope you all are well and at yyour own peace. Cheers

[@offline34]

@@timetoreason181 I didn't realize how debilitating the trauma really was until I began to move out of the religious space. When I was very young, around 6 I imagine, the fear of hell was what I fell asleep with at night as I begged God to not send me there. I would sometimes cry myself to sleep. Even today as an adult it has plagued me. It has begun to subside with an honest look at the questionable morality of scripture. Looking back this is NOT something to instill in a child. I've heard from the religious that children should not be subjected to horror movies, gore and scary images. I believe hell is more of a torture mentally than anything displayed on a screen... BTW I like your KZbin name... So appropriate....

[@timetoreason181]

@@offline34 Oh now your reminded me of bloody nightmares I had had, which are long forgotten. I was around 19 when left home and sharing a flat with 3 other undergrads and they used to tell me that I screamed at night, and would knock on my door to wake me up. I did see dark very tall semi human like figures, high reddish/yellowish fire, pieces of flesh soaked in blood and blood all around. That was terrifying all that thanks to the Cult of Jesus. Now I see nothing, sleep very well and all my dreams are very peaceful. All my flat mates were non believers, out of two Chinese one was a Taoist, another Mahayana Buddhist and the last was godless like me. They were non judgemental and comforting to me. That is where I was exposed to other spiritual practices which opened my eyes [having left the dark cocoon of Jesus Christ] Yes I reason every bit of everything including the ones in this channel. I came here from the MythVision and which is semi academic and I love and the other extreme Matt Dhillhunty. I watch Matt to get a quick 'steroid' boost haha. MythVision reminds me of my uni, nevertheless I never believe any only through my own reasoning and none of these have let me down, only to educate, enlighten and to have a different perspective. For the record I am on my own, no medication, no therapy no counselling thanks to some other practices. Hope you are well and truly happy and peaceful. Cheers.

[@Gigislaps]

My daughter loves Pinkalicious. Also, the part about telling your kids that they aren’t broken really reminded me of my trauma in an important way . It is so important that we tell our kids how GOOD they are.

[@summerbiby1496]

Yes yes yes!!!

[@shadowhuskies4475]

@@summerbiby1496 please sister email this person Doctor Sabeel from Chicago [e-mail] this is my humble request to you caus our purpose of life is to serve God and without God we are like walking dead. Our soul nourishes when we remember God

[@summerbiby1496]

@@shadowhuskies4475 I understand that you believe that. But I made it through that belief and fully embraced myself as my own. Owned by no one. No creator, unbound. I am fully alive, thank you.

[@shadowhuskies4475]

@@summerbiby1496 we see Jesus peace be upon him as prophet just like Ebrahim, Moses, Noah, David and others. Jesus is not crucified but God lift him up to him and he is going to come back in the end times and have family and proof the world that he never claim as God in his first coming

[@shadowhuskies4475]

Jesus never claim as God in the old or new testament. We Muslims believe in day of judgment

[@RoseSharon7777]

I spent my whole life in the Christian cult, 55 years. UNTIL I actually started studying greek and hebrew. I actually discovered the warning in Jer 8.8 about the scriptures being corrupted by lying scribes. After 4 years of exhaustive study, I found my way back to 1st century understanding of the new covenant and came out of ALL men's traditions and magic blood cults.

[@summerbiby1496]

What is 1st century understanding of the new covenant?

[@jerrywphillips]

This is an amazing video!!! I'm definitely looking forward to these two Ambassadors of Reality/Truth posting another video! The thing that makes this conversation so incredible is the obvious sincerity and depth of thought that these two people have used to replace their past fantasy with reality! Leaving the Church of God and losing my fear of death was the beginning of my personal liberation 45+ years ago! It was not easy, but the freedom was worth everything to me! I live the best moral and love-based life I can today ONLY because I intentionally choose it myself!

[@summerbiby1496]

Isn't it so enriching that it's OUR choice? This is my life. It feels so much fuller than ever since my freedom from faith.

[@billkeon880]

Matt Dilahunty’s quote is great.... “the bible convinces you that you’re sick and broken and then offers up its homeopathic remedy”

[@billkeon880]

@@JR-yb8jp Ok, if you insist.... The quote though is by Dilahunty, but it's brilliant because it's true. One of Matt's co-hosts, Tracie Harris had a story about her very, very pious grandmother who was terrified of dying on her death-bed because she was convinced she hadn't repented enough and because of this she was going to hell. Repugnant. These ideas are abusive whether in children or the elderly. Ridiculous things deserve ridicule, especially when the cure is non-existant. Repugnant

[@summerbiby1496]

Yep. And this is one of the reasons the broken, impoverished, hurting, ill... are targets. They are looking for help. Christianity says "this is why bad things happened to you, repent and it'll get better!"

[@summerbiby1496]

@@JR-yb8jp dude, get over it. Your words mean nothing.

[@billkeon880]

@@JR-yb8jp the argument you made (which is a common one) that millions of people have believed in Christianity is a perfect example of an ad populum logical falacy. Millions of people also believed that the earth was flat that the sun revolved around the earth, doesn't make it right. That sounds like one of your best points because it's your first sentence in your reply. And atheists are not god haters...another falacy. Are you a unicorn or leprecaun hater? Or a Santa hater? No you're not, because that line of reasoning is ridilulous. I am an average guy with a bachelor's degree and an advanced certification in exercise physiology. So what? Says nothing about if I'm rational and have good reasons for my arguments. The idea of vicarious redemption is anti-human and abhorent. It obliterates the concept of personal responsibility. But to set up a utopian perfection that people are supposed to acheive (which humans never can because it's ridiculous to expect it) and yet are forced to grovel and ask for forgiveness and punishment is crazy and abhorent. This is EXCATLY what leaders of cults say in order to keep power over their subjects. Non-StampCollector has a great youtube illustrating the point of being responsible for someone elses sins called 'Forgiveness, Grace and God's Death Sentence'. It's nice that you are a student of the church and bible, but if you want to avoid confirmation bias, I would urge you to read and consider opposing views. Don't be put off by apparent mocking because atheists aren't mocking you, they sometimes mock ridiculous ideas, which all human's are prone to believing.

[@laurieprins6398]

Hitchens’s “created sick and ordered to be well on fear of hell” is also one to remember.

[@Castlerock77]

God gets too much credit but not enough blame

[@summerbiby1496]

Amen

[@fvdj2204]

That's good 👍🏼

[@carrieokieOG]

Fantastic story. Thanks for sharing. I really relate to this and appreciate your guest being so honest.

[@joslynroadstrom1163]

I love what she says about now, she doesn't look at people as projects!! I'm appalled at how I was, I can genuinely love people now!

[@summerbiby1496]

I think this was the thing that I gained that I didn't expect. REAL intimacy in my relationships because we're EQUALS. I don't have the special salvation potion they need. I can love freely now.

[@dottedrhino]

Haven't fully shaken it yet. Seeking for salvation. Great video! Great guest! Thanks!

[@graceorchard]

The message of the Bible is not about escaping earth and living somewhere else. It's not even about escaping eternal hell. It's about human flourishing. Yes, belief in the existence of God is part of the message. Rules and historical accounts are not where we live our lives, though, they provide a framework. I enjoy Tim's interviews because it's very stimulating to my thought-life and faith, but his message is that we exist "by the-luck-of-the-draw." That is fine with me for someone to believe that, but that understanding can be intellectually challenged as much as any other belief.

[@SixOfZero]

This is an *amazing* interview, and I just subscribed to both channels because of it. I can relate to SO much of this! Over the past year, I've researched Christianity and the bible's origins. This started with Mormonism because I was dating a Mormon. That wasn't too hard to figure out. I went backward from there to tackle the source, but it just keeps going deeper, and history keeps repeating itself. I reject all of it - Canaanite gods, blood magic, manipulation, copied stories, forged letters, shaming/silencing women, etc. As Summer described, people think I can't have morality without believing. Discarding all religion does not weaken my morality at all. The struggle now is understanding and dealing with the fact that most people (everybody I know) believe the narrative when I don't.

[@ksteed1167]

Well said. i'm thankful to have found their channels as well

[@summerbiby1496]

Changing the minds of what 'non belief' looks like is hard. I'm determined to show that I'm the exact same personality outside of faith as I was in. The same bleeding, passionate heart. Just a lot freer!

[@PMcDMind23]

“There’s nothing to be saved from. Nothing!” That’s it in a nutshell. Once that falls away, the rest unravels.

[@summerbiby1496]

Exactly!!!

[@billkeon880]

She is so adorable and sunny. If I’m ever having a bad day I can get picked up with this video. These stories are so inspiring

[@summerbiby1496]

Thank you so much ❤

[@sirfrancisdrake2398]

Nothing makes you an atheist quicker than reading the Bible

[@sheldonpashby5500]

If it’s just you. You’re probably right. But if you’re asking God to reveal Himself to you. No. Your wrong.

[@johnlabry325]

I want to believe the Bible but damn

[@luismangiaterra1031]

@@johnlabry325 if you don't believe it ,that's saying a lot, it might not be for you.

[@JulietTheGirl]

True!

[@sheldonpashby5500]

@@JulietTheGirl If you some one disseminating what the scripture correctly. Because even Satan’s children are ravenous wolves. But if your listening to a child of God. Try to bring to the fold. Jesus Heavenly Father can draw you in. You can be taught by Holy Spirit, He can show the things of Jesus unto you. To where you can an informed decision to accept Christ and become a child of His Father. Or stay a child of Satan and wish you’d come to know Jesus as your Savior and been washed by His blood.

[@abby_stewart]

Loved this testimony and related so much on so many levels. I loved the last part especially about how Christianity robs you of the present because you’re so consumed with the after life. Life becomes more colorful. So beautiful. ♥️

[@randellmathews5961]

HITTING THE LOTTERY !!!!! I really enjoyed listening to both of you , hitting so many key points that I also experienced . The fear of hell was the first to go , I think that was because I loved science . I thought I heard Summer mention the same thing. Thanks Tim for pointing out the positive side of becoming an atheist.

[@HarmonicAtheist]

Thanks, Randell!

[@summerbiby1496]

It's a joyful journey 🥰

[@summerbiby1496]

@@marym9245 I started with Rob Bell's love wins then deconstructed the word studies in the bible. And once all the biblical contradictions lead me to no longer interpret the bible literally, Hell no longer had weight. As I read about Catholicism and Constantine and the growth of Christianity... it became clear it to me it was used to control people with fear.

[@randellmathews5961]

@@marym9245 When I did believed in god , some how I found it hard to believe that god would do that to me . You got me on this one Mary , because I can’t quite pin it down . Maybe it was my deep love of science and how everything worked. You’ve given me something to think about. I wish you much success!

[@luismangiaterra1031]

@@summerbiby1496 it's a happy road that leads to...oh nevermind.

[@bellezavudd]

Just came across your channel today. I like the way you've concisely made the descriptions. Just wish I had more time to listen to their stories. I'm sure I'll be back. 😊

[@summerbiby1496]

I speed up audio once I skim the descriptions to see which stories but home!

[@Varaidzo1]

I would just listen to it while doing chores like laundry and dishes

[@mikejones6874]

That title and quote is such a great summary. "I studied my way out of Christianity. " I try to use this route with everything actually, instead of just automatically believing in anything.

[@joereyes3913]

Did is exactly what happened to me. The more I read the Bible the more College education I got the more MY CRITICAL THINKING OPENED MY MIND. STUDYING THE BIBLE WITH DILIGENCE HELPED ME TO SEE ALL THE IMMORALITY OF THE BEING PEOPLE CALL GOD. AS FOR JESUS I QUIT BELIEVING I WAS A SINNER SO I HAD NO NEED FOR HIM OR HIS DELUSIONAL STORY.

[@summerbiby1496]

A.m.e.n. 👏👏👏

[@KNIGHTDRAGON87]

Diddo

[@JulietTheGirl]

This is a great channel! Thanks for what you are doing! Thanks for sharing your journeys! I really heal by listening to this. I am not alone!

[@summerbiby1496]

🥰🥰🥰 with you :)

[@kristijanakristijanic]

With you! Greething from Croatia!❤

[@ksteed1167]

This interview has been so edifying. i share many similarities with Summer and her experience. Good on her for being vulnerable and brave to help us going thru it. Thank you both.

[@summerbiby1496]

I'm so glad it's helpful 🥰

[@mikebarnes7734]

I left Christianity in my early twenties and never looked back. However, I have subsequently gained more knowledge about Christianity from different spiritual perspectives. Religion, for me was only a stepping stone and not an end in itself. Ironically, I consider atheists as being more committed believers than most Christians. "Love and hate are the obverse and the reverse sides of the same coin of attachment."

[@MikeEvans965]

What is a committed believer ? Atheists are most often skeptics who aren't committed to any beliefs but rather follows the evidence wherever it takes them even if it goes against their current beliefs. I'd say we are committed to seeking truth but absolutely not committed to our beliefs.

[@guthrie_the_wizard]

Tim - thanks for all you’re doing! Summer’s story is incredibly important and I’m glad to hear that she finds life so fulfilling after deconverting. As an atheist and secular humanist, it can be frustrating to see how religions propagate an intense fear that without XYZ belief or “relationship” that people won’t be fulfilled or that they will become morally bankrupt. Cheers to you both for pursuing actual truth with intellectual honesty and courage.

[@josephreyes8145]

If you don't like it just ignore it. It's none of your business what we like or don't like. Now go debate muslims please.

[@satie321]

Another incredible interview, Thank you Tim!

[@bonniewashington541]

Congratulations!! I tried so hard to make it work for me but I just couldn't ignore the science.

[@semidemiurge]

Your description of the "ah-ha" experience of realizing that Christianity if not true is the most powerful and insightful one I have ever listened to. It is a bit of a hobby of mine to seek out these points in people's deconversion accounts to better understand the minds of religious adherents and so I have listened to or read many. I will be following you for further insights into the psychology of the religious.

[@thetruthaboutscienceandgod6921]

Dear simidemiurge: I had an "ah-ha" moment, too. It was many years ago and at a particular time, I had a burning desire to know if Jesus Christ / The God of the Bible exists and if so, is He the one and only true God? Because of that tremendous desire on my part, God did reveal Himself to me in a way and at a time and place that I least expected. The same can happen to you if you say a basic prayer to God that you SINCERELY WANT TO KNOW if He exists. The beauty of such as prayer is that you don't have to believe in God to pray that prayer; you just have to be sincere in your desire to know. That's how it happened to me. It can happen to you. So, please reconsider your rejection of Jesus Christ. God loves you and He wants you to know Him. Take care.

[@semidemiurge]

@@thetruthaboutscienceandgod6921 God can reveal himself to any of the +5,000,000,000 that don't currently believe he exists at any time, we all are waiting.

[@thetruthaboutscienceandgod6921]

@@semidemiurge The problem is that nonbelievers are not all waiting. Jesus Christ said the gate that leads to everlasting life is narrow and (relatively) few there are who find it. But, He said wide is the path that leads to destruction. God loves you and He wants you to know Him. Jesus said He stands at the door of your heart and knocks. But, Jesus isn't going to break down your door. He's given you and all humans free will. It's your decision whether to invite Him in. I pray that you will do that.

[@summerbiby1496]

Thank you so much!

[@graceorchard]

@@dirtypickle77 All gathering of human ideas has problems. Nothing new here.

[@barryseaton3121]

Your program, style and subjects are so balanced.

[@jamesmcdowell1050]

Great conversation .Summer Biby is a delightful ray of sunshine. I wish you both happiness, good health and meaningful lives ! Thank you!🦋🍀

[@osr4152]

1.42 mins where they talk about seeing people as projects hit hard. I am just glad I was never as zealous for the gospel as i was supposed to be.

[@thomashennessy3585]

Tim - most of your guests have mindfulness in common - and thought their way out. And, they really had to agonizingly fight their way out. Their stories are so moving... and tragic. My catholic experience in NY was so different - we were only loosely kept in the fold & most of us were completely free to stop going once we completed the ritual education (catechism). For me - we learned real things at school - and religious things on alternate Wednesday evenings. The religious commitment didn't dominate our personal lives at all. Also, in NY, most of your neighbors and schoolmates were not co-religionists. Cultural diversity is pouring into rural America - and in our lifetime, religious observance will be a minority position, and will cease to have a stranglehold on politics. Better days are on the horizon - and your efforts are propelling us there. Many thanks,

[@brettemerson2147]

Was forced into Catholicism as a child, physically and psychologically. They still don’t understand why I can’t accept it.

[@MikeEvans965]

It's crazy the religious right calls liberals groomers when they have no problem grooming children to indoctrinate them into a religion before they have the cognitive functions needed to make an informed choice about the matter.

[@kaceesnow]

I was Baptized at 10, because if I died and wasn't Baptized, I would of burned in hell forever. No kids should have such burden them

[@ImOddTodd]

Yeh, I kid around sometimes with certain christians about that. If you're baptised or die young you can beat eternal tortue -so I tease them that I'm going to have a pool party for kids and drop in electricity to save them all from hell -I guess I still have some twisted ideas floating in this mind but I'm almost recovered. No, I dont have a pool, lol

[@summerbiby1496]

It's so sad.

[@Oozy9Millimeetah]

‭Deuteronomy 1:39 NKJV‬ [39] ‘Moreover your little ones and your children, who you say will be victims, who today have no knowledge of good and evil, they shall go in there; to them I will give it, and they shall possess it. There's no kids in hell... Also it's not water baptism that saves someone, it's faith in Christ then you will have baptism of Holy spirit and you are a born again believer that will go to heaven no matter what.

[@dodget3]

​@@Oozy9Millimeetahyou're barking up the wrong tree. This nonsense doesn't mean anything to us.

[@Oozy9Millimeetah]

@@dodget3 or so you would like to believe...

[@billkeon880]

Beautiful, bubbly and brave.

[@summerbiby1496]

🥰🥰🥰🥰

[@mikeywood1516]

I've become a bit intrigued by this channel. It's interesting (and saddening) to me how truly difficult it seems to have been for people to come out of the religious life. For ME, it was simple. "I don't want to be like these people. I don't believe any of this. I need to go". But so many of you seem to have had to truly dive deep and struggle to find the truth and love of self free of the concept of a deity. I feel so badly for you, for having to go through this when it was so easy for me.

[@HarmonicAtheist]

100% agreed. I should have been able to see through it all much earlier and easier. That, to me, shows how well childhood indoctrination can do its job, in certain circumstances. A very scary dynamic. Blood magic, talking snakes, genital mutilation and genocide should shout mythology and bizarreness, but for many of us, the roots just run so deep that it's very hard to escape.

[@mikeywood1516]

@@HarmonicAtheist The best thing one can do is find self-worth. Christianity is very much an abusive relationship. You follow because you fear repercussions. "God's love is true/God's fury is terrible". "I love him because I fear him". That's not healthy. Parents shouldn't be this way. Lovers shouldn't be this way. Friends shouldn't be this way. So why is it acceptable in a religion? Once someone realizes that they deserve love because they are capable of love, that their accomplishments and mistakes come from THEM and not a deity or a demon...that THEY are the architects of their lives and not some imaginary best pal in the heavens...Man, that's TRUE joy.

[@summerbiby1496]

This is the deep seeded and dangerous nature of indoctrinating children. If my parents whom I love and respected told me fairies were in fact real, even as an adult who hadn't ever seen a fairy, there would have been an inclination to believe the only people I was taught to trust.

[@summerbiby1496]

@@mikeywood1516 it really is! What a freedom to be master of my fate!! To not look at other people and fear their fate. To simple, be and do. Free to choose. It was a 7 year deconversion for me and I'm still healing in many ways from things I didn't think shaped so much of my own beliefs about my self!

[@mikeywood1516]

@@summerbiby1496 I've had to watch the video in bits and chunks throughout my work-from-home day (MAN do I love work-from-home) but I'm listening to the section where you discuss the issues you had with intimacy-related guilt etc. and it's just another example of how it's all about control and oppression (and oppression of women and children, specifically), Made to feel guilty about the books you read or music you like or toys you play with and THEN oppression of how you feel and who you love and what makes your body feel wonderful. It's just...awful. I told my wife's cousin (who is, himself, coming out of the religious life) that ONE of the reasons (among MANY) that I bailed was because Christianity is so damned BORING, on top of everything else.

[@kathleengarrett1340]

I was raised Catholic even went to a Catholic College, but we were allowed to think and question. Nothing from church or parents forced ideas on me. I think I influenced them more. This type stuff sounds crazy to me so thankful I missed that. I like Summer studied my way out of Christianity & sure wish someone would start a forum or something for like minded to communicate.

[@graceorchard]

Kathleen, I get this idea of studying and discovering things that shut down your belief in Christianity. One question...have you quit studying? Are you still searching for the truth?

[@summerbiby1496]

It's still so crazy to check my interview here and see the views continue to climb!

[@richardwilliams473]

Just reading the Bible turned me into an atheist!!!

[@luismangiaterra1031]

Why isn't God helping you with it? Now you say because God is not real, but wait a minute what if it's because your one of those that will be going to......nah, just forget about it.

[@richardwilliams473]

@@luismangiaterra1031 If the God of the Bible is for real, I will be very disappointed !! The God of the Bible is portrayed as jealous and even vindictive. These are HUMAN CHARACTERISTICS

[@luismangiaterra1031]

@@richardwilliams473 it really is sad, that's how I really feel. Enjoy life, don't worry about it, only God can judge.

[@luismangiaterra1031]

@@JR-yb8jp God wrote his law on everyone's heart even if you never heard of God or Jesus it's still there. And don't forget that God van stop time.if he wants to ,if it's your last heartbeat before you die, God can freeze time so you can study the bible for trillions and trillions of years if you want before he starts time again. So there's no excuse.

[@luismangiaterra1031]

@@JR-yb8jp I myself, before I became a Christian, never said there is no God. I don't know much about Hitler, but I never heard that he rejected God or said there is no God. Saying that God doesn't exist or the bible is a lie, is worse crime than Hitler

[@RKupyr]

I found this conversation beautiful and extremely insightful. I have never been religious (although... that's actually a long, not-so-simply story). My encounters with religious people tended to feature me mocking and arguing with them, as a boy and young adult. But as I've gone through life -- am in my 60s now -- acknowledging the sincerity (if not also the fear) of many religious people and intensely thinking about the human experience, I've tried to imagine what being religious feels like and why there are still so many religious people. I've come to see that leaving religion is not simply a choice for many (most?) religious people but can be truly life-shattering and terrifying, at least momentarily. Your dialogue -- filled with kindness and compassion and intelligence and even cheer -- offered me precious insight into not only the intellectual but the emotional aspects of being in and leaving such a way of life. Both of your warmth and forthrightness are compelling. Thank you! (Have just subscribed, in the hopes of being exposed to more sincere people finding their way through the thick and confusing jungle of human life/imagination -- or, I should say, through the religious part of that jungle. There are still plenty other areas of that jungle that even non-religious people need to navigate!)

[@kellifabdandyfinds836]

Wow. This was extremely helpful. Thank you both so much. Please do an update soon. ✌️😁

[@summerbiby1496]

Looking forward to doing an update interview :)

[@HarmonicAtheist]

Thank you! Will do!

[@garryatkinson815]

Got involved after attending an Alpha course in 2020, was having a tough time at beginning of the pandemic with jobs etc. Started going to a modern type church, started reading the Bible and joined my local Methodist church. Read quite a bit and got as far as Elijah in the old testament,had to put it down and didn't want anything to do with it. No longer attending a church, met some decent folks but don't know if they've read the OT. Maybe they have a different take. Just finished reading a certain Christopher Hitchens book and that pretty much says it all regarding my thoughts.

[@DarqueSyde66]

I really enjoyed this! Thank you to both of you!

[@jeffxcc]

I can relate, I know there is a creator, but the more I studied the Bible the more I discovered it was far from perfect and read Bart Ehrman's material and completely related to his journey! I still believe in God and discovered truths exist they are like Gold, just buried and not always easy to find when depending on man as a scribe. Nature and the universe, DNA, intelligence is God expressed that is my proof. We are just a little flicker of light in eternity and take this dream way too seriously!

[@spaceghost8995]

You sound completely lost and brainwashed. You clearly decided ahead of time what you wanted to believe and you cherry picked what you needed to fit your desire.

[@presentfuture7563]

I know of two people who went to Wheaton College (Evangelical Harvard) to study Biblical history...the woman is now an outspoken atheist, and the guy calls himself an agnostic. They were extremely bright people to begin with, and confronting what's actually known about so-called holy scripture completely overloaded their carefully programmed apologist circuits. Also, I saw this earlier on social media re. Eve and original sin: "Saying one woman's action started all sin in this world and then impregnating a woman via a spirit/ghost and making her give birth to a male savior who takes away all sin from all who believe in him is profoundly anti-women." -- artist Panhandle Slim

[@HarmonicAtheist]

Well said!

[@pansepot1490]

Misogyny is a recurrent theme in Middle East mythology. Eve being the source of the original sin is just another version of Pandora’s box myth.

[@presentfuture7563]

Well, narcissistic wounding is all part of a proper Christian upbringing. Many of us will deal with the messaging about our worthlessness and simultaneous specialness for the rest of our lives. It creates both self-loathing and grandiosity. I've had years of therapy to deal with mine, and I'm in my 50s...how about you?

[@josephreyes8145]

Hmmm, I know a guy who went there to become the President of the college and is a devout and brilliant theologian/pastor/teacher/preacher/author/scholar. Go figure. One goes and comes out an atheist. One goes and becomes a stronger Christian. How does that happen?

[@josephreyes8145]

Panhandle Slim is sorely mistaken. God elevated the status of women. It's human men that have distorted how women should be treated and then God gets the blame.

[@dgwinc]

Very interesting discussion here, very good points. I find it interesting that I too had my divorce and awakening from 2014-2017 (still awakening).

[@summerbiby1496]

Yep 2012 started my tithe research. By 2014 things were unraveling.

[@jeffknetzer856]

A JW here, she is an awesome person. With a real heart and a good head on her shoulders. Those of us out here who struggle, really need to see women like her who have seen the light and embraced it with open arms. Thank you from the heart. I wrote down several interesting points both of you made that I hadn’t thought of before, thanks to your broadcast.

[@B.S._Lewis]

42:10 God hated Esau's "sin"? Have they read all the stunts Jacob pulled that God "loved".

[@ghostownaproach]

According to the bible hell is not where people go because of sin since that's been paid for at Jesus' death for all mankind. But because they received not the love of the truth, therefore God gave them over to a reprobate mind and they believe a lie and are damned. Essau represents this current world, Jacob represents the world to come. Essau valued his physical comforts and worldly pursuits while Jacob valued God's will over those things. Love covers a multitude of sins when your priorities are in line with God's.

[@B.S._Lewis]

@@ghostownaproach That's a very convenient interpretation. How do you figure Esau didn't care about God's will?

[@ghostownaproach]

@@B.S._Lewis Esau was the firstborn of Isaac making him the heir of the birthright promises given by God to his fathers Abraham and Isaac but that meant little to him and he sold it to Jacob for a meal. Symbolic of what people today are trading their eternal soul for to get some temporary comforts here and now. Which is what this channel is doing and celebrating in all who join them in this. God is looking for people to share his kingdom with. When Jesus said "In my Father's house are many mansions..." The word is more like residency as in high position of honor such as doctor or lawyer. God is looking for who among us he can give these positions to that once belonged to powerful angels but they fell so God is having a job interview among all mankind and when we were all disqualified he became a man to fix that and make it possible for us to be considered for those positions again. To throw that chance away because it's not important to you is what God hated about Esau but loved that Jacob desired the chance even though it was not his by birth. ll Esdras 6: 9 For Esau is the end of the world, and Jacob is the beginning of it that followeth. Rsv says it better And I answered and said, "What will be the dividing of the times? Or when will be the end of the first age and the beginning of the age that follows?" [8] He said to me, "From Abraham to Isaac, because from him were born Jacob and Esau, for Jacob's hand held Esau's heel from the beginning. [9] For Esau is the end of this age, and Jacob is the beginning of the age that follows. [10] For the beginning of a man is his hand, and the end of a man is his heel; between the heel and the hand seek for nothing else, Ezra!" [11]

[@B.S._Lewis]

@@ghostownaproach Cool bro. You do you.

[@ghostownaproach]

@@B.S._Lewis kzbin.info/www/bejne/gny2pYBop66Za9U

[@jonathansaegesser5431]

Excellent job Tim.

[@salt1956]

I had to laugh when you said Summer was the worship leader at a Pentecostal church. They always seem to pick the prettiest girls for that job! An excellent interview. I liked what you said about 'blood magic'. I've never understood why Jesus' blood had to be spilled (read nailed to a cross and left to die) for the forgiveness of sin. Could Jesus have come down from heaven, taught the multitudes, performed miracles and baptised all the people who wanted to repent and obey God? Without having to be flogged and crucified? What if the OT god is not the same as the NT god? What if the gospels were altered to attract Jewish Christians into the new church?

[@jonmeador8637]

Funny how the more time you spend researching the Bible, the more likely it is you'll leave the faith.

[@HarmonicAtheist]

Very true!

[@josephreyes8145]

Truly funny. The more I study the more convinced I am. Unfortunately hell is not a funny topic...

[@jonmeador8637]

@@josephreyes8145 Perhaps you should read Bart Ehrman's book on Heaven and Hell. If Jesus didn't believe in hell, why should you?

[@dougm659]

@@josephreyes8145 Hell is funny, mostly because it’s as unreal as Heaven.... man made mythical nonsense!

[@dougm659]

Try reading some books on the subject, books that contain verifiable scientific theories on the origins of the universe as opposed to books full of old myths and legends like the Bahbul....

[@VonHanshaw]

Summer Biby and I have a very similar past. Great video.

[@summerbiby1496]

I'd live to hear it@

[@mikeywood1516]

I also imagine the political environment of the past five years or so (in actuality, much, MUCH longer) and the absolutely abhorrent behavior of evangelical Christians (and how quickly they followed a "golden calf"...More like an orange one, but I digress) will result in more and more people leaving the church. At least I hope so.

[@criticaloptimist7961]

What was abhorrent?

[@mikeywood1516]

@@criticaloptimist7961 Oh, come now. Let's not play dumb.

[@criticaloptimist7961]

@@mikeywood1516 I'm not. What do you got?

[@mikeywood1516]

@@criticaloptimist7961 I'm not playing this game with you. You ABSOLUTELY know the behavior I'm talking about. You want to play smug little games and pretend to be clueless, that's fine.

[@criticaloptimist7961]

@@mikeywood1516 whoa, dude. Back up. It was a sincere question. I was sitting here thinking...what is he referring to? Because I have had no first hand experience of anything abhorrent. It sounds like you are full of hot air.

[@johnnymomascaro]

Breaking down an individual psychologically to then instill some philosophy is at the very core of every control and brain washing mechanism

[@inreallife21]

Wow the purity situation must have been so traumatizing. I’m so sorry that happened to you. How absolutely toxic 😟

[@summerbiby1496]

It really was. As I continue to live past Deconstruction, it's shocking how much trauma was buried.

[@radosawszmid7822]

Assuming there's nothing at the end, with all the positives there is still one thing that is hard for me to deal with. If one of my close relatives dies before I die, I will have to live in pain as anyone else but without the possibility to say to myself "it's alright, we will meet again in heaven"...Anyway, for an open minded ISTJ raised in a close minded christian familly (love my parents btw!) , it was only a matter of time before I come to the same conclusion as your quests...My lovely wife still believes as it is simply easier for her and I will definitelly let my kids take their own decision. I believe, it should always be our own study and conclusion. I had no such privilege as a child and was a blind church walker from day one until my twenties then I started asking all those difficult questions no one wanted to answer...

[@therhapsodist976]

Christian circle of reason = circular reasoning.

[@gentilenation1117]

Different way of translating the words, that gave us the chance to choose. It meant to happen. I’ll give the emphasis that “the words were translated”.There was time no one is allowed to read the book except for the high rankings, let alone that it was written in Latin too. I’m just glad the “reformers” did the best they can to translate, that way little people like us had a chance to read it our own way and also given a chance to understand it our own way or understand it with other people. I love reading the origin and history of Christianity too. The knowledge of different faith are quite fascinating actually. No right or wrong. Summer, congratulation on your new venture and new approach. I wish you well.

[@James-qo7uz]

Tim Mills, do you have videos that focus on the discrepancies in the scriptures? Like your John 21 Pythagorean example? I looked through your channel of posted videos but see mostly interview style videos of deconverstion stories.

[@HarmonicAtheist]

Hi, James, I have a number of other "project" videos in the pipeline first, but the discrepancies will be on my radar before long. The other projects actually will prep me for that one, though, as I've discovered a lot of the "discrepancies" are intentional. I'll try to explain that dynamic in detail whenever I get to that video. But it'd be like saying, "I walked in a straight line from from Florida, up to Georgia, then to California, then to North Carolina." A casual reader would say that's foolish, no one would go to California on that particular path. That exact thing happens in the Gospels, with one of Jesus' journeys, but there's a really important reason for it. Yes, it's "stupid" at first glance, but the hidden meaning is meant to stick out like a sore thumb etc.

[@cmorrison5466]

@@HarmonicAtheist It's these kind of overlooked "details" that I find intriguing. I'm looking forward to what you've turned up.

[@daodejing81]

The main thing is to be free from religion. True religion is your life. You are the way.

[@charlenekelley7268]

Tim Thank you for this video. It has helped me so very much. Please continue your work.

[@HarmonicAtheist]

Thanks, Charlene! Please reach out if you ever want to do an interview - [e-mail]

[@summerbiby1496]

🥰🥰🥰

[@joelmouton9365]

It was when I started university that my deconversion really began. That was the start of the first huge crack. Since I was raised a biblical literalist.

[@summerbiby1496]

I always wish I had a university experience! I would have likely gotten out a few years sooner. My friends psychology and college biblical studies cracked a lot of my foundation!

[@mikeywood1516]

Also, I can only imagine...or hope...That the political climate of the past five years (but, honestly, WAY WAY more) and the absolutely abhorrent behavior of evangelical Christians (and how quickly they followed a golden calf...Or more apt, an orange one) who went public with their racism and bigotry...will result in more people abandoning the church.

[@uknowme1811]

@@JR-yb8jp trump promoted positive ideals? " kick her in the pussy!" " Covid is not real"..I'm not a American ,so very little vested interest but looking from the outside in. I know plenty of Christians from other parts of the world the do not support the Christian Nationalist movement in the USA.

[@mikeywood1516]

@@JR-yb8jp Oh shuuuuuut uuuup.

[@mikeywood1516]

@@JR-yb8jp I'm glad you can at LEAST acknowledge it. That's the first step towards fixing it. You guys are broken.

[@mikeywood1516]

@@JR-yb8jp Sure. The first step is eliminating people who spew theist nonsense while following racist, sexist neo-fascist political leaders from your life. The block button is a great tool. Here, let me show you...

[@presentfuture7563]

@@mikeywood1516 💪PERIOD.

[@ACantu-de8pg]

There is something we need to be saved from, it's called ignorance. It's ignorance which is the real killer.

[@joycesky5041]

I was a Christian for 30 years and also studied my way out of all that INSANITY. It was the bible that turned me Atheist!

[@Juliamiller56]

Joyce Sky YES!

[@margaretbarrett6087]

Me too; it was precisely through reading the bible in full , instead of being ‘taught’ the palatable parts, that I repented of the decades I wasted worshipping the barbaric, bloodthirsty deity therein, and I am now saved from the shackles of crazy and abhorrent christian doctrine.

[@genamueller6062]

@@JR-yb8jp she seems like she’s full of life and light to me! 😁

[@davida.taylor8444]

@@JR-yb8jp I would wonder how many of these deconversions are from people who grew up in it versus someone who converted then deconverted sometime later in life, 20s, 30s, 40s, etc. What I keep hearing are people who grew up in it, studied it seriously, saw some flaws, but also wanted to be free of the religious rules and traumatizing doctrines (I.e. hell and rapture). Some of the most decout Christians I know did not grow up in it and it legitimately put there lives back together and saved them from destroying their lives. Others, like myself, grew up in it and have seen many parts of it to be freed from.

[@elliottpaine9259]

The part about : turning the switch on and off for romance was so key. Great way of explaining it and so many of in religion have had that card dealt to us. Then you have it " off" and " on" at wrong times and the inner conflict, etc. I was a part of a very elitist and esoteric group. The founders wife was sleeping around her own husband and on numerous partners. Then this very couple was sending people away from the church if they did anything even touching or holding hands. It was outrageous. I don't even know how deep the effects go for myself. Cheers Tim

[@romellyarde907]

Well done I can appreciate her story as it was the same for me. If you truly care for others and life and have a studious mind and want to enhance yourself to better serve the people you care for in the bible you experience the opposite in reading the bible.

[@Gigislaps]

I relate ALOT to her wow

[@summerbiby1496]

🥰🥰🥰

[@melissaherrington7091]

Triangulation is when one parent substitutes their child for their spouse. It's not necessarily sexual, but definitely intimate, and it is emotional abuse.

[@summerbiby1496]

I think the term I became familiar with was emotional incest. Which sounds sexual, but isn't at all.

[@spaceghost8995]

Try dating a dysfunctional single mom who has a young son. You will lose that one most everytime.

[@indianpilgrim]

What are some of the Facebook groups I can be part of to navigate through some of these issues?

[@alethiacharis2480]

I watched a documentary on the earth's cycles of civilization, and how there are literally cities they've dug up from another Era before ours. This basically destroyed the foundation of Christianity for me, because for example if Jesus did come...it was just in this last cycle of civilization. Does that mean only our cycle needed to be saved? And also, that creation story is just from this cycle, too, it seems. Even the Hindu scriptures talk about a catastrophe that happened to a city in a past cycle. I couldn't ignore the fact that the earth is wayyy older than the Bible would make it appear.

[@DarthxErik]

Summer, I so relate to you in always wanting to be a good kid. I recently moved and had to look over all my old church notes and childhood doodles. At age 4-5 I was writing notes to my mom saying “I will be good, I will never stop being good.” 🥺 I was such a strong believer in Jesus and had a “personal relationship” with him + filled w/ the spirit etc. And now happy to be an Atheist. Lot of religious trauma though, ngl.

[@summerbiby1496]

I didn't even recognize the trauma until this year. I started becoming extremely defensive and guarded towards religious people. And if I felt any push from them, I'd bite back harshly. I was asking myself why I suddenly feel so angry, but my deconversion went on for 7ish years. But a lot of that time was indifference. I still respected believers. But lately, I'm seeing all the danger. After walking away fully and into atheism, I feel an urge to warn and protect people from the trauma I experienced.

[@summerbiby1496]

@@JR-yb8jp all I know, personally, is that I haven't found any evidence to confirm there is. Therefore, I have zero believe in a god.

[@summerbiby1496]

@@JR-yb8jp it's amazing, isn't it? I don't understand why it's easier to imagine a god, who just always was and didn't need to be 'created', than it is to not need a creator to explain our existence. I may not know exactly where the energy came from, but I'm content with what science has been able to explain. Mythology is just a story to create meaning, to give our limited minds reasons. But we don't need it anymore, we can, and have, studied our evolution.

[@summerbiby1496]

@@JR-yb8jp so we keep studying instead of creating a story to explain it.

[@summerbiby1496]

@@JR-yb8jp you're being very polite and bringing information that is appreciated. I don't want you to feel blown off my brevity. The study of science was stolen from me by my childhood indoctrination. I didn't get a chance to go from evolution not being 'enough' to god. I went the other way, and have barely even tipped my toe in the water of evolution. I'm deeply immersed in the book Sapiens.

[@billkeon880]

Paulogia is another great youtuber. It spell corrected to say isn’t but I typed he is a great youtuber

[@CommonSense_Skeptic]

great interview, great guest I was a Christian willing to die for my faith for 43 years, until I actually started reading the Bible and attending church regularly. (you never realize how indoctrinated you are when you're a child and how it can last forever) Then when you read it allowing yourself to use critical thinking skills every page falls apart

[@myadhdlife4869]

Don’t you love it when someone says they heard god, then they explain that they didn’t actually hear god?

[@summerbiby1496]

I swear it was an audible voice once. The mind is powerful.

[@myadhdlife4869]

@@summerbiby1496 🧠

[@myadhdlife4869]

@@summerbiby1496 I would agonize over making a decision. I finally said to a friend of mine, “I’ve never been able to say that God told me to do this or that.”

[@summerbiby1496]

@@myadhdlife4869 I agonized too!! I was just thinking the other day how much I love my van. And how weird it is that when I bought it I decided to based on my needs for my family and the fact that I liked how it drove etc. But, as a Christian I would have labored in prayer looking for signs that this was the van GOD wanted me to have.

[@myadhdlife4869]

@@summerbiby1496 isn’t life much easier now?!

[@therhapsodist976]

Christian evangelism = quota filling.

[@atheistechoes9594]

So i asked my grandma if she believes in the talking snake and donkey in the bible and she said she does cause god helped them talk

[@unicyclist97]

Wow, Summer's church sounds crazy to me. I know Christianity encourages deception and lying, but seeing it done so blatantly and openly is still shocking.

[@summerbiby1496]

My father's extremism certainly added even MORE to the church's core beliefs. There were plenty of others like him, of course, but not all were as extreme. There were waves of evangelical extremes that would kind of come and mellow out over the 25 years.

[@vickyjones6806]

@@summerbiby1496 I will pray for you and Tim mills Soul, and Reccomend that you watch Mike Brewer and he will Show you Just how Wrong you both are!!.

[@summerbiby1496]

@@vickyjones6806 Though, I don't believe it will change anything, if it gives you peace, pray on. Your fears for my soul are not my fears. You can keep them 🥰🥰🥰

[@vickyjones6806]

@@summerbiby1496 Well "at least you have A Good Heart of Gold and Yeah I keep them for you, but will leave it to God Plans for you..

[@pansepot1490]

@@vickyjones6806 please tone it down. I can smell the patronizing through the screen.

[@lyssa8704]

I don't think there is a "wrong" way to deconvert such as a pastor making you angry. I wish I had the guts and wisdom to leave any of the times my pastor made me angry.

[@HarmonicAtheist]

Agreed, I think we just meant to say that someone pissing us off doesn't uncut the claims of Christianity, per se. But understanding the origins of Christianity, i.e. working through all the ways the Gospels quote Homer, Euripedes, Virgil, Plutarch, Josephus, Pythagoras, Enoch, etc., helps a lot, especially when combined with comparative mythology. and a thorough understanding of 2nd Temple Judaism.

[@MelsMessage]

I love her shirt!!!

[@summerbiby1496]

Thanks!

[@jamesryan74]

This was fantastic. Thank you.

[@genamueller]

Pagan Christian and Russell Kelly’s teaching on KZbin about tithing is what started the unraveling of my Christian faith. Great book!

[@cincylitigator4704]

His theory about the apocalyptic Jesus squares perfectly with the conclusion of the greatest Christian theologian of the 20th Century Albert Schweitzer in his seminal “Quest for the Historical Jesus”. After surveying the works of all critical german theologians Schweitzer comes firmly down on the position that Jesus anticipated the immediate advent of his messianic kingdom, overthrowing Rome and all Jewish triumphalism entails. Christian modifications to the contrary are just so much revisionist history albeit justified in Schweitzer’s view.

[@Machine9000]

I didn't even watch the video yet but I love the title. It's exactly what I've done.

[@traog]

I like to watch videos about peoples deconversions, just found this channel about a week ago, and have watched a few of them now. I deconverted nearly 25 years ago, in my early 30s. It was a difficult time, when I got through it I figured it was done, in watching many of these videos it has occurred to me that I wasn't finished, I still need to rebuild who I am, and see the lingering damage that has been done.

[@jackmyers2359]

@@JR-yb8jp It isn't happening so much anymore is it bro?

[@jackmyers2359]

It's been 45 yrs for me brother, I don't think you ever totally recover. It gets better but the fear and torment instilled in childhood never totally goes away, we were mentally raped. Deconversion is not for weenies.

[@jaclynrichmond1049]

The potter and the clay was the same scriptures I was reading, and it hit me strong. The old testament is nothing but God's children vs others, so it all looked different now.

[@drewjohnson4811]

Around 1:37 the host describes his understanding of the Messianic Apocalypse and that really seems to be the root of his misunderstanding. The apocalypse has always been about the fall of Jerusalem. It's the clearest evidence of prophecy and fulfillment of scripture that we can verify today, but he jumps past the fall of Jerusalem and says their prophecies weren't fulfilled. His understanding seems to have been the Apocalypse was meant to be something in our future or an event with visible angels flying around. It's symbolic writing about the coming destruction by the Romans. The Dead Sea scrolls are all over the New Testament as he laments because they were both pointing to the fall of Jerusalem as the coming judgement on the Old Covenant and the start of the New. No scandal there. That was the original purpose and fulfillment of the predictions. The Dead Sea scrolls got the timing from the Old Testament, so they weren't making up something new. They were either expounding on the Old Testament or speculating on the details of the coming events in some cases. It all fits together perfectly when you have the correct frame. He also says Christianity developed after the temple destruction because they didn't know what to do at that point. That's demonstrably false because the writings of the New Testament were published before the temple destruction. Christianity was already in full swing by that time. Plus the New Testament was also looking towards the destruction under the Romans as the coming judgement. The guest mentioned she lost some of her faith when she found out hell wasn't an eternal place of judgement, but she also missed that where "Gehenna" is mistranslated as "hell" the gospels it is actually pointing to the fall of Jerusalem under the Romans as well. "Gehenna" is how the Valley of Hinnom was translated into Greek. The gospels were bringing forward the prophecy in Jeremiah 7 about the fall of Jerusalem and saying it was about to be fulfilled in their day - specifically at the end of their generation.

[@HarmonicAtheist]

Wrong across the board. Even most conservative Christian scholars wouldn't agree with that.

[@drewjohnson4811]

@@HarmonicAtheist It's literally what the New Testament is about from the gospels to the Book of Revelation. The beast in Revelation is a list of the emperors leading up to the fall of Jerusalem. That's why Jesus said that generation would see Him come into His kingdom. Daniel 7 shows the Son of Man coming into his kingdom at the fall of Jerusalem. Vespasian, the emperor during the war, is prophesied in Daniel 7. Daniel chs. 2,7,9,11, and 12 all lead up to the fall of Jerusalem. That's where the Dead Sea scrolls got the timing.

[@summerbiby1496]

That's the thing about the bible, it's up for interpretation! Who's right? No one really knows. Just use your faith and hopefully you picked the most right denomination and interpretation of the scriptures. Good luck :)

[@drewjohnson4811]

@@summerbiby1496 I agree there's some interpretation involved, but the Bible gives the key to the interpretation. The Old Testament prophecies are the key to the New Testament statements. The problem all along wasn't the Bible being unclear, it was our mistake in reading and translating the Bible apart from the Jewish context. How do we now know hell was misinterpreted? Because when you read the OT passages the NT authors were referencing, they were prophesying the destruction of Jerusalem...."burning like a furnace/oven"..."worm that doesn't die"..."ashes under your feet"...were all passages prophesying the destruction of Jerusalem. We took them to be about eternal torture because the imagery sounded that way on the surface. Not the original intent of the authors of the scripture. For instance, Malachi 3 & 4 where some of the furnace imagery comes from even prophesies the whole NT sequence....messenger prepares the way...messenger of the covenant comes...city destroyed in judgement (day burning like a furnace when the evil doers in Judah were to be cut off)

[@summerbiby1496]

@@drewjohnson4811 is hell, the evangelical interpretation of it, eternal damnation in an endless pit of fire, real?

[@erpthompsonqueen9130]

Thank you.

[@billtodd999]

Same with me. I was raised Church of God, a Pentecostal denomination. As an adult I saw the church change, things sin before were no longer sin. So I started studying the Bible and it opened up to me but not as a more devotee but to see it was fiction.

[@timothymulholland7905]

My conservative pastor grandfather would refer to the “other” translation as “The Devised Version”!

[@Ronnymikkonen2686]

Lovely interview.

[@schuylardiamond8438]

Studying your way out of Christianity fits my experience exactly! Raised in Christianity from childhood, in youth accepted Jesus and was baptized but, admittedly, was a CINO, Christian in name only. In mid 2005 began wanting to know god and Jesus not because of what I had heard but because of my own personal relationship as well as experience. Embarked on my odyssey with much determination and joy and with two main prayers. 1). For god to reveal himself to me and 2). For god to show me the type of person he wanted me to be. Boy, did I ever have my eyes opened when I got down, as it were, into the weeds! If there is a god he/she/it, that being is not the god of Christianity or Judaism or Islam or any other god that humans have thought up over the course of the last 200K years.

[@summerbiby1496]

AMEN!!!

[@HarmonicAtheist]

Schuyler, thanks for sharing that! If you'd be up for an interview, please let me know! [e-mail]

[@jgvtc559]

@@HarmonicAtheist what were your studies How was your bible reading and prayer life Many will say you never knew Christ and fell out of religion not relationship you most likely never experienced Jesus There's a reason why the Church Body of Christ grows under persecution and there's reasons why false converts with unbiblical doctrine leave such as yourself Now add to that you have a family not only are they now required of your hand for all eternity but you also just preached a false gospel to the world and are trying to lead others with you Its despicable But it's free will. And I just gotta say your and all these folks blood isnt on my hands Nobody can know Christ and leave him Backsliding sure Unrepentant and given over to a lie until they repent yeah it happens But just to apostasize walk away screaming trying to take others with speaks volumes Add all the heresy and flavor of the week dreams and visions its questionable if you ever even had a instance of being in communion with God Jordan peterson for crying out loud is coming to Christ why because he studied So whatever you studied wast the kjv it wasn't praying and fasting It was the doctrine of men and traditions you never knew him

[@schuylardiamond8438]

​@@jgvtc559 Anything is possible but not everything is likely. There is a possibility that a Jesus character lived but after my research I doubt it. In the Scofield Study Bible in the book of Matthew chapter 16 verses 27 and 28 we see two false statements made by the Jesus character. Statements born of extreme delusion or possibly a form of mental illness. He first states that when he returns, the so called 2nd coming, he will come in the glory of his father but the Hebrew god disputes this in Isaiah 42: 8 and 48: 11. Then in Matthew 28 the Jesus character makes another outlandish statement! To actually believe this statement one would have to believe that there are certain individuals that are approximately 2K years old and still physically alive still awaiting the return of the Jesus character! IN OTHER WORDS THE JESUS CHARACTER ISN'T COMING BACK! He already said that he was coming back within the life time of some of those that were standing there with him over two thousand years ago! My iteration is that the Jesus character was either delusional or the personification of prevarication! I nor anyone else needs some mystical experience with a fictional character to know whether a relationship is needed or worthwhile. The only things which are really needed to figure Christianity out is a King James Version Bible, a Strong's Concordance of the Christian Bible, The Tanakh and a healthy dose of common sense. People are going to believe what they see fit to believe. My thing is that one should seek out the facts, the evidence. Not wishful thinking. Faith is belief in the absence of evidence. As a Christian I began asking myself as to why I needed faith? If the Hebrew god and Jesus are real why do I need to have faith? I don't need to have faith that this planet has a moon, I can see the reality of that!

[@MikeB-ir8cn]

@@jgvtc559 I believed said similar things to others in the past. (Regret it now, but it did feel righteous when I said it.) Your experience and belief is not unique here.

[@razorbeard6970]

Summer is the earnest, beautiful, go-getter that many guys would have loved to expended their lusts with regardless of the mode considering moderate innocence and rite of passage. The fact she even thought to be so forthcoming to people to whom it was none of their business and were bound to unwisely use her as scapegoat is a spiritual crime.

[@elguanchebencomo9031]

I was raised as a 7th day Adventist in Cuba where the government didn’t like us at all. I came to the States and I discovered that their prophetess had supported a doctrine called the shut door. She and the founders of Adventism believed that no more sinners were converted after 1844 and that Christ would come in 1851, seven years later. Christ didn’t come and they hide out those writings so she could be reinvented as a true prophetess. I translated the writings to Spanish with a twist “barred door” and told everyone that their prophetess had a bar (tranca) with in Spanish specially Cuban Spanish means big di*k. Everyone ran away from the prophetess, no Cuban wants to be near a woman that have a big di*k or a tranca. Even the President of the church was removed. I had so much fun that I still laugh when I remember what I did to them after one of their priests tried to be sexually involved with my girlfriend.

[@stevecrozet306]

well done

[@food4thort]

The more one studies the historicity of the Bible, and the first few hundred years of Christianity, the less credible its supernatural claims become. I almost feel sorry for Christian apologists who are forever trying to fit square pegs into rounds holes. They contrive all sorts of fantasies (eg in regard to the conflicting fates of Judas Iscariot) that are totally laughable in their desperation to prove Bible perfection and inerrancy.

[@buck_maize111]

What does everyone make of heaven and hell NDE's? (Near death experiences) after hearing a hellish one that fear of hell comes straight back to me.. 😱

[@Soneelicious]

Every NDE is different and some are similar. So I believe depending on your beliefs and fears that’s what you experience during NDE

[@howardhales6325]

The four gospels don't even give the same names to the disciples.