Has Feminism Been Co-Opted By Progressives? LIVE At Dissident Dialogues 2024

Feminism Fatale! Anna Khachiyan, Kathleen Stock, Mary Harrington, Bridget Phetasy, Diana Fleischman, five of the worlds leading thinkers on the failures and future of feminism come together at the Dissident Dialogues festival of ideas.
What happened to feminism? Has it done good or done damage? Has caused a masculinity crisis? What of its tenets are worth fighting for?
Filmed on May 3rd, 2024.
FOLLOW THE PANELISTS:
Anna Khachiyan: / annakhachiyan
Kathleen Stock: / docstockk
Mary Harrington: / moveincircles
Bridget Phetasy: / bridgetphetasy
Diana Fleischman: / sentientist
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AUDIO
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[@good_boy_13]

Louise was present in spirit.

[@Bozemancurtis]

If you had told me this video included a hyper-educated woman with a British accent discussing feminism through the analytical lens of a Disney movie character I would have expected to be insufferable and unlistenable. Turns out it was smart, hilarious and engaging. Not sure what wave of feminism this is but I'm all for it.

[@CT-fb8cl]

Very satisfying to see a feminism discussion with all adult female panelists

[@bkilg2509]

What a dumb sentence that has to be written and is 100% true 😅

Why? And how so?

[@bkilg2509]

If you're asking me It's a dumb thing to have to say because that's the way it should have always been. It blows my mind that we have to even be happy about it. This is of course in reference to transwomen being included on panels to talk about their feminism. Which is just utter bull crap because they are men. They only have a superficial idea of what it is to be a woman , and I'm being generous.

[@p382742937423y4]

Yes, diversity is a blessing isn't it?

[@xmaseveeve5259]

We disagree on that.

[@maxyorke2453]

Anna is a fascinating and underrated thinker. All four were great, but she elevated the discussion with her side ruminations.

[@cgpcgp3239]

Kathleen Stock is always the most well reasoned, rational, and practical member of a panel. I’m not a feminist bc I’m not an ideologue or activist but I appreciate contribution of feminists in making lives of women better.

She thinks and speaks like a man.

[@TaweEthio]

Feminusm has never done that.

[@simgrmemaj8075]

“She thinks and speaks like a man” The woman who kept chastising the rest of the panel for failing to pay proper attention to a vague idea of the low-class woman with a prolapse or whatever-in an attempt to, as they all inevitably do, prioritize the ultimate victim above productivity? I don’t think so. And it’s impossible for her to “think like a man” either way.

[@HeyCutie90]

I wish I’d heard conversations like this when I was a teenager. I wasted so much of my life pursuing a career when nothing has given me as much fulfillment as being a mother. We put so much emphasis on encouraging young women who want to be boss babes that we lost the reality that most women, particularly once they exit their 20’s, don’t want that life. Some love it and never want kids and that’s totally fine, but we focus on them at the expense of so many more who just want traditional gender roles.

[@dhimankalita1690]

I liked how you spoke about most women like you know what they want. It's good for you if you want to live on your husbaands earning but women have dreams and want a future and don't want to be burden on men. Divorce is areal thing and women who have jobs also have a future and can fall back on something once they are divorce and can't receive free stuff from husband lmao

[@bensanderson7144]

@@dhimankalita1690nevertheless, what she said was really quite benign. It remains true that most women want traditional gender roles. In other words, most people are normal, and not abnormal. Additionally, most traditional women do want to work and earn their own way; there is no tension between being a working woman and being a traditional woman.

[@ns73jynr73]

@@bensanderson7144 the traditional option is increasingly no longer available for many

[@Michelle-vv9lk]

The crux of feminism is the ability to be able to choose what kind of woman you want to be instead of having societies telling you what you should be

[@bensanderson7144]

@@Michelle-vv9lk that’s actually liberalism. Liberalism is the ability to make choices according to personal desires. Feminism is even more basic, it’s simply the representation of women’s interests, whatever those interests may be.

[@purplesheep99]

Kathleen Stock is by far the most insightful and interesting for me.

[@angelagreen242]

She is magnificent - a truly wonderful woman.

[@shabanahfazal6512]

Yes, fantastically intelligent, but she’s KathLEEN - not Katherine!

[@purplesheep99]

@shabanahfazal6512 I'm going to blame autocorrect for that transgression and not my poor typing! Thanks though, I've corrected it.

[@bensanderson7144]

Incredible. This is the first time I’ve heard a group of feminists speak a kind word about men. I’m 54 years old.

[@markaurelius61]

Don't believe them. It's a trap

[@andreasrylander]

What??? Damn, now I have to see this video. Never thought I would experience that!

[@charlieweaver6322]

34:28 Kathleen Stock: 'Basically there are women that just don't have enough to eat because the men are stealing it.' Notice how all the other women on the panel let that one slide. Not a single one fact-checked her on it, or asked for some evidence to back up this blatantly misandrist claim.

[@ebrearley3134]

Research shows that feminists like men, maybe you have met lots of women who just hate men, or maybe you are not very nice!

[@Michelle-vv9lk]

You should get out more 🙄

[@Michelle-vv9lk]

I really do think we women in the west need to address the horrors that other women in poorer/religiously patriarchal countries are still suffering under. Sod the threats of being called Islamaphobic or white saviours. Surely freeing those women from subjugation is more important than our feelings of being slandered 😕

You might consider strengthening ur own culture as a primary motivation.

[@sumairshirazi]

They won't do it due to female nature

[@TaweEthio]

No we dont need more cultural imperialism.

[@Michelle-vv9lk]

@@TaweEthio So asking for freedom and autonomy for women is cultural imperialism. So Patriachal cultures must be upheld because it’s always been that way 🙄 Shall we bring back slavery too

[@user-hp9xs1tu9l]

I think Stock died of cringe in the first 3minutes.

[@SylBear]

I love that they dropped in "Maiden Mother Matriarch" several times here in natural convo - it's the name of Louise's podcast.

[@vegaa1]

Excellent panel/discussion. Louise Perry would've been a great addition here

[@machellovelivelife658]

Her voice is too soothing, I can never pay attention. lol I zone out and feel sleepy without realizing it.

[@adhardino9781]

Exactly my problem too :)

[@BonRain8734]

I always love to listen to Kathleen Stock. She’s a voice of reason, she’s humble and I’m so glad she escaped academia to share freely with us. OTOH, Diana Fleischman?…. meh 🥴

[@ChrisUllman-xb5ji]

I am a 75 year old Vietnam Combat Veteran, and have a massive crush on all five of you!! ❤️ It is so refreshing to hear rational conversation regarding women, mothers, and feminism. Kathleen Stock hit the nail on the head when she said get feminism out of academia. (I would add race relationships/DEI.) Academia, the way it’s presently formed, is not only destroying feminism, but race relations, and the practice of healthcare. When all medical societies have signed on to genderism, one realizes how deep and pervasive the ideological capture is throughout our culture. We are at an inflection point and have been for 60 years. We are still dealing with the fallout of the most impactful invention in the history of mankind that occurred in the late 50s and early 60s: oral contraception. Along with oral contraception the other ingredient recently added has been an unchecked white misandry throughout academia that is leaking into all institutions. What I find ironic, is most men I know are more traditionally feminist than women. We want women’s sports to be Title IX not Entitled Kind. I love you all and I know how a healthy status returns: A) Men realize that an orgasm, no matter how exquisite, is just a carnival ride and is a very small part of a loving, caring companionship; B) Woman (because of conversations like this) will resonate with the reasoning you engendered of what life is, what they want, and not to limit themselves. If they are able to go slow and look at the entire buffet line, they won’t load their plate up at the pastry station, but sample all of it. Lastly, there will always be the others. What we vets say about them: they crash the party, then complain about the service. Thank you so much. xo Doc

[@Hammerhead137]

Agreed. However I would assert that feminism hasn't been destroyed. It's doing exactly what it was intended to do.

[@djgeneralbounce]

Gutted Bridget didn't shout "WOMEN" as they all came out. 😂

[@user-hp9xs1tu9l]

Yes Kathleen! The teenager with a fistula has no use for feminism which ponders microagressions or fighting over stay at home vs work or 45 page essays on the metaphysics of Taylor Swift. The women who most need feminism don't really have the luxury of sitting around gabbing about it but how do you fix that without a discourse, a theoretical basis and a bunch of toffee noses writing 45 page essays about it?

[@simgrmemaj8075]

Your comment is like that photo from the 1960s of an obese black woman standing next to a girl in a wheelchair and a sign that reads something like “20$ a day to feed astronauts? How about you feed the poor children!” There’s a fallacy called the relative privation fallacy.. it’s basically that. At the end of the day your theory assumes the only acceptable criteria for decision-making is to prioritize the weakest and the minority, which is very female typical and works well when caring for infants, so it sounds correct to scale it up, but it *does not* account for lots of factors like entropy. You lose big to natural decay as you scale up this protect infant/destroy dissenters dynamic which stultifies the most productive, sacrificing their productivity instead of letting them make rational sacrifices that in the long term improve conditions.

[@chrisocony]

No, the conservative philosophy is not "If it ain't broke don't fix it," it's "Even if it is broke, don't fix it. The fix will be worse."

[@markaurelius61]

No, it is fix things very carefully. Don't assume that because we can think up a solution that it will actually make things better.

[@TaweEthio]

Wrong

[@pjalexandra]

Thank you all on the panel for a sane discussion. I'm of an age with the panelists. When I was in college it seemed so many of the ideas then in academia held promise. But even then I was struggling with 'theory' vs. 'practice'. Now I care about practice, which as the panel wisely points out, will vary according to context.

[@mitotv6376]

Anna is very articulate... Nice to listen to

[@machellovelivelife658]

Finally figured out who Anna reminds me of. She could bee Constantin Kisin's fraternal twin sister.

[@vegaa1]

Hahahaha

She's Armenian & Ashkenazi...K is not

[@vegaa1]

Then K is shephardic? I wanna say K is Russian and Ashkenazi

[@machellovelivelife658]

My gosh people, I was just referring to how she looks compared to him. Y'all are getting too deep into ethnicity SMH LOL

[@Today_is_Now789]

Ouch, that’s way harsh. Jeez! She’s still a cutie but I can kind of see what you’re saying though.

[@LoneWulf278]

My problem with Western feminism is that it has very little (if anything) to do with the rights of women and girls. It’s just vibes. 😑

[@broccolihikicks]

"Meme Girls" feminism. Like it :)

[@p382742937423y4]

Diversity is a blessing isnt it?

[@pegm5937]

First I will cop to having a massive girl crush on Kathleen Stock. And I think her counter point to the "never been happier since giving birth" crowd is well placed. It's not everyone's experience. If it is, then fabulous! If not, then women's opportunities shouldn't be curtailed. Simply put, as a human, if it's working for you and not harming anyone else, then do that. The notion that women should be shamed because of either experience is point-blank bonkers. (I realise western society for some time now has been shaming and not supporting women who wanted to stay at home and raise a babies, and that's been pure bullshit.)

[@brynagallagher2304]

That was the weirdest, grossest, most bizarre demonstration of self-satisfying arcane nonsense, with the exception of Kathleen Stock’s contributions, of course. Totally demoralizing.

[@SheridanZhoy]

Feminism has always been inherently progressive.

[@danieln.6097]

*Regressive.

[@SheridanZhoy]

@@danieln.6097 this makes no sense

[@danieln.6097]

@@SheridanZhoy Feminism has led to the regression of society not the progression of it. Hope that makes sense.

[@dhimankalita1690]

If you're a delusional surely it would make sense lmao ​@@danieln.6097

[@SheridanZhoy]

@@danieln.6097 Regression refers to a transition from an advanced state to a prior primitive state. Feminism might be many things, and many of those harmful, but it's difficult to make the case that it's led a march backward through history to some imagined glorious matriarchy of olde.

[@undertheumbels]

Very pleased with this discussion, I could have happily listened to three more hours.

[@matthewparlato5626]

13:13 Is a direct reference to LA Paul's masterpiece "Transformative Experience"

[@debbielondon1809]

I sensed so much tension here at the beginning - it was almost impossible to listen. Nobody seemed to be expressing themselves fully. Perhaps the chair was not the best at putting everyone at their ease?

[@billusher2265]

38:09 “I don’t want to encourage people warning against what caused that which I myself regret happening”

[@crockmans1386]

Yes, magazine-feminism .... great statement! Rich new york city white academic women are dominating the discourse. Nobody else would buy that Cosmopolitan stuff.....

[@simgrmemaj8075]

It’s good this ‘all women panel talking about feminism past, present, and future’ happens: since _“what do you guys want to do?”_ reveals itself to be utterly dead on arrival.

[@michaelcummins7397]

Good grief. What’s worse than Feminist scolding is Anti-Feminist workshopping their grievances. Thank god Anna K was there to elevate this panel beyond even the rest of these broads intellectual capacity.

[@Btn1136]

How does she do it?!?!?!?

[@novacancy7253]

I’ve never thought I’d enjoy listening to feminist as much as I’ve enjoyed this conversation. I feel that I learned more about them in the group. Very hopeful! Thank you for bringing these conversations!

[@malice836]

I think motherhood is one of the most valuable role in being a woman. A career is also important. As Mary says have it all just at different times. I real don’t like over analyzing what a true feminist is. Nature has a good way of guiding. Also a good male role model growing up also helps being a feminist. Not anti male, just being strong woman.

[@thomaspaaruppedersen6781]

What a great discussion between some of my favorite women-that-are-not-my-wife. I'm a huge fan of Bridget, saw a lot of Diana some years back but lost track of her. Mary is everywhere right now and I find the convoluted thoughts of her 'ridiculously overeducated brain' (paraphrasing her own words) highly interesting. Anna was new to me but had really great thoughts and I will be checking out what she's done. Kathleen I mostly know from her 'case' and interviews given about how she was hounded out. The format was excellent also, Anna mentioned in the beginning. Debates can be tiresome, whereas talks between people who are actually trying to come to a solution is more positive and productive.

[@gaymo69]

amused at the idea of this sperg listening to redscare

[@user-hp9xs1tu9l]

I definitely think the more and more people saying it are onto something that humans need a certain amount of struggle. Not so much that we're miserable but perhaps enough that we don't get bogged down in navel gazing and finding boogeymen (boogeypeople).

[@shmuelrosenthal6661]

Don't know why this has so many dislikes. It's a great panel and a fun listen.

[@jrodmacintyre]

Does anyone think we have enough manpower to defeat the patriarchy?

[@sumairshirazi]

Nope cause in order to defeat patriarchy all men need to join

[@acacia_w]

One size does not fit all.

[@TL-vp8uh]

What a bunch of classy women 🥰 I loved this panel.

[@novacancy7253]

44:42 Add aloe Vera (natural) to the nip and she won’t want it anymore.

[@MrAhuapai]

all ideologies eventually outlast the conditions that created them. Each generation has to ensure that they are following the dictates of their hearts and minds and not those of others long passed .

[@MackerelCat]

Honestly this entire forum has been great to see, given the recent outbreak of intellectual madness.

[@jornantrillsark1437]

Thanks för this panel discussion, a breath of fresh air. However, what I wonder is why do we have to keep at having feminism, why keeping a vaccine after the disease has been eradicated? Hasn’t feminism come to a point where it is superfluous and pointless or even worst, contra productive? I see the point of approaching things from a philosophical perspective but “feminism” seems to me to be just a reason to keep on hiring humourless academics that makes things worst in society.

[@simgrmemaj8075]

Maybe it (the non-technological aspect of feminism) never was a vaccine (this is afterall a prevalent theme in recent years) Especially as the most minuscule drop of truth you can get out of its proponents, after they are placated emotionally, is “Well this is _really bad_ , _but_ without it things would be worse” Again, a parallel to other “vaccines”

[@MyTruth1771]

Wow! Great discussion.

[@malice836]

I am not at all in favor as a woman the “slutty” approach to sexuality. I feel much more dignified in a monogamous relationship. Healthier for my self esteem and soul.

[@raguellagrande7344]

...... And? Thanks for sharing I guess

[@malice836]

@@raguellagrande7344 your ? is what?

[@malice836]

@@raguellagrande7344 you’re welcome 😉

[@zacharybosley1935]

You have the freedom to make that choice, yeah

[@malice836]

@@zacharybosley1935 your point?

[@JohnSmith-mi9id]

I bet none will vote for the Party of Women. I apologise to those that don't qualify.

[@AetheriusComics]

I'm a little confused, I thought Feminism was in itself Progressive, as Feminism I thought was about taking down the Patriarchy. Which is a Progressive idea.

[@deadman746]

I'll answer this from the perspective of diachronic cognitive linguistics and science. This is not specific to feminism; it applies generally to politics. It is also not specific to progressivism. You can see it in any use of signs. Let us stipulate that feminism is a progressive _idea._ This seems accurate to me. There will be communities and organizations that form around ideas. They usually start off honest. Over time, they will have some success and get a good name. The good name will attract people who want to use the good name as a cover for underlying beliefs that conflict with the original intent. E.g. progressive communities in many cases will be coöpted by people who are regressive. This has happened before, during the Progressive Era. The third _progressive President,_ Woodrow Wilson, segregated federal facilities by melanization for the first time in history. He also came up with a racist school book program that would make Ron DeSantis weep with envy if he were smart enough to read. The progressive _bloc_ pushed Prohibition and Eugenics. The latter included forced tubal ligations for women deemed _feeble-minded_ by the state. Somewhere between 40,000 and 60,000 women were sterilized. See the Supreme Court case _Buck v. Bell,_ easily available online. Oliver Wendell Holmes, whom Justice Elena Kagan claimed was her model of _judicial restraint,_ penned the opinion stating, "Three generations of imbeciles are enough." Carrie Buck read the newspaper every day, but she also had been raped by a relative and blamed for it. Holmes was also responsible for the first two of several Supreme Court decisions that made it illegal to criticize the government for a half century, only reversed in 1969 in _Brandenburg v. Ohio._ I do not assert that modern _progressives_ are that bad, but I have yet to find a book or a progressive willing to fess up to this history. I would be surprised to find one willing even to engage in a good faith discussion. Yes, people and movements can change, but when all they do is deny and scream *_CHUD_* I feel no obligation even to consider them adults. TLDR: a lot of _progressives_ are functionally regressive, and there appears to be no push amongst _progressives_ to fix this. As for feminism, when I was on the faculty of FSU and had access to good sources, I studied the history of Anglo women's movements back to the printing press. There's about a 40-year cycle, and we happen to be in a regressive phase. It should get better around 2037. But this response is already as much as I am willing to type without a proper keyboard. [Edit] Fixed an unclosed italicization.

[@Hammerhead137]

There's no such thing as oppressive patriarchy. The entire goal of feminism is to destroy the family, and with it, civilization, so that career women can rule over the ashes.

[@Hammerhead137]

​@deadman746 DeSantis is not a racist. On the other hand he's also not too bright.

[@Hammerhead137]

​@@deadman746 Wait, what does CHUD stand for?

[@AetheriusComics]

@@deadman746 Very interesting. Thanks for sharing this.

[@susanrockwell139]

There is no feminist movement in the U.S. Feminism ended in the mid-90s here.

[@TheFluffyDuck]

There is the humanist feminism, which has achieved all its goals decades ago. Then there’s political feminism which is just getting started with its retribution and anger.

[@zacharybosley1935]

How do you presume humanist feminism has achieved all its goals decades ago?

[@evolutionisus4879]

Please explain “humanist” feminism reached its goals. Sexism is alive and well world wide.

[@banedon8087]

@@evolutionisus4879 Yes, against both men and women.

[@Readabookfoofoo]

What I am hearing- “Progressive Feminism has made women totally miserable. What should we do about it? Double down on Progressive Feminism.” Get real.

[@zacharybosley1935]

? How did you draw that conclusion?

[@lmr1049]

you’d have to have an IQ of about 80 to genuinely come to this conclusion

[@pete98146]

I think women are starting to understand that you can pump up the value and virtues of women, and that's fantastic, without disrespecting and devaluing men. Starting a war between men and women is childish IMHO. We both need each other and it's time to respect each other.

[@user-tf2rj2jm2n]

This would have been better if Mary Harrington hadn’t shouted her contributions

[@ns73jynr73]

the sexes are increasingly going in different directions, toward greater personal autonomy. But males continue in some cases to be expected to perform sex specific roles e.g. military service, family breadwinner, financial supporter of female, etc. Now that women have been liberated from traditional gender roles. Men should also be liberated from traditional gender roles.

Funny how this is NEVER part of the conversation,isn't it? And it IS happening.

[@miriamlana833]

I call that the half way patriarchy, same rights for women but also upholding all the privileges women traditionally have. Especially the TERFs want to uphold that.

[@swooningtree]

Not to mention the expectation of heavy manual labour in and out of the workplace, to expose oneself to risk, danger and violence (and the physical and psychological effects of experiencing this his whole life) all ostensibly for the benefit, comfort and safety of women.

[@sumairshirazi]

Men can leave the traditional gender roles cause when shit hit the fans women will go back to their gender roles.

[@Missfredawallace]

Strange to see Anna at a Winston Marshall event. but she is great to listen to.

[@barekicks]

Why is it strange?

[@lucyb52]

Kathleen S and Anna K saved this panel from being an academic mom coffee klatch with the kids in the care of a nanny. What a waste.

Uhoh...

[@simpaticode]

Good panel and discussion. I would have liked to hear more about how modern, ascendant feminism dehumanizes men and how (and why) the pushback seems to come from only the Andrew Tates of the world. The "man vs bear" discourse exemplifies an overt misandry that is increasingly present in other forms of media (perhaps most famously all of Disney's recent output). In fact I'd love to hear a discussion about it that doesn't come back around to "well we shouldn't antagonize them because then they'll not like us" but focus on the real problems of the position itself, and mental health impact such widespread dehumanization has on men. If women's issues are human issues, then the converse is also true, and feminists of good faith need to speak up loudly against the overt and pervasive dehumanization and demonization of men, much of which appears to come from within feminist circles.

[@Arminius420]

What future, birth rates are incredibly low, AI taking over.. lol

[@Malky5279]

The world population is approximately 4x what it was about a 100 years ago. Why should we be worried about low birth rates with roughly 8 billion people on the planet?

[@hemlock527]

Separated / divorced FATHERS also often have it the same as mothers, especially when separation happens at a young age, like 2, and care is 50-50.

[@billusher2265]

Kathleen Stocks position is to go back to exactly how it was right before the current situation, as though that won’t just lead to the same result.

[@JoBo301]

The future of feminism will be box wine and cats

[@juliettejuliette-bf8df]

This sounds like the dream tbh 🎉

[@pallavidawson7933]

I’m here for the box wine. (Prefer dogs).

[@JoBo301]

@@pallavidawson7933 feminists tend to prefer cats!

[@supersuperbakano]

​@@juliettejuliette-bf8df as long as you pay for it. No welfare. Then ok. Ve con Dios.

[@evolutionisus4879]

Oh look a guy who thinks we are witches😳🙄😂

[@ankit5820]

Also not just feminism has significant role and future in Religious and right wing developing societies like india but also for future study/scanning for future humanity. Like they could be torch bearer of equality in humanity's future.

[@AnonymousC-lm6tc]

I wish that they had an actual progressive feminist on the panel to provide more pushback.

[@souxcasa]

Not every panel needs that. Sometimes thoughts and ideas can be lost in debate because you are having to defend against the parts being challenged you don't talk about the parts that aren't. Maybe they'll do it another time though

[@Readabookfoofoo]

Yeah, because we NEVER hear from that perspective.

[@pmberkeley]

​@@Readabookfoofoothe point of a debate is to see how ideas meet up. You can't get that without that perspective.

[@radripley1265]

​@@pmberkeleythis was, as stated, not a debate

[@pmberkeley]

@@radripley1265 I went on to see that fact. Disappointing.

[@vira1340]

39:00 Mary you can talk about norms all you want, just don't criminalize people who don't share your norms. That is Tyranny. Keep sex work legal if if you don't like it.

[@cubemerula5264]

32:10 Hey girls, Marry's mic doesn't work, can we get a man here to fix it? Oh, we're just gonna leave it and upload it like that, oh ok.

[@Susan.D]

If the women from the US represent current feminism thought then we are not in a good place in the US. Too much silly incoherent talk, mainly about themselves. Great philosophy about how privileged they are. Like.

[@Mz_zM]

Love all these wammin ❤️❤️❤️

[@josephmartin4727]

What is the future of feminism? Single women

[@simgrmemaj8075]

And tons of mulatto, fatherless children. And that patriarchy that never really existed as it was formulated eventually will come to exist-we’ve basically fallen for reflexivity and as, happens every time, a lot of delusional hysterics will have to be broken before the havoc ends

[@bengray4149]

who cares? (you did ask)

[@banedon8087]

Bloke here. I spent most of my life being broadly in support of feminism (as it used to be). However, it changed in 2014 and has since become very antagonistic towards men & masculinity. It now feels more like a far-left political supremacy movement rather something that seeks reasonable discourse, joint agreement and balance. The above is the why I think political trends in men have been observed to have changed direction towards the right since 2015-16, an increasing prevalence of MGTOW (which is not the answer, imho) and an increasing rejection of feminism.

[@markkavanagh7377]

44:15 It's called nagging, Kathleen.

[@snowdroog1]

Terf party?

[@evolutionisus4879]

Many women discover after they have children, that they don’t want to stay at home and take care of them. To make a generalization of this is grossly unscientific.

[@everythingisupsidedown9593]

I thank God every day for making me male, a man.

[@sumairshirazi]

If women are choosing the bear then they better start living with the bear then. Leave the houses men have built and start living in the forests.

[@johnwatts8346]

when can feminism just go away?

[@nothingspecial1241]

When men decide to turn it off. It only exists because men allow it.

[@zacharybosley1935]

When its no longer necessary

[@johnwatts8346]

@@zacharybosley1935 its never been necessary, quite the reverse, its been a disaster.

[@zacharybosley1935]

@@johnwatts8346 I would say it has been necessary when women couldn't vote, remains necessary as women aren't believed when they relay their experiences, and will continue to be necessary so long as arbitrary social standards are enforced upon men and women.

[@johnwatts8346]

@@zacharybosley1935 well i would say thats total nonsense, democracy is a lousy system anyway so nobody should get a vote, women arent believed any less than males are, and the standards are not arbitrary, so youve offered exactly nothing /made no valid point what so ever, well played.

[@Mogwat]

SEX IS AN ACTIVITY ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! Nothing more. STOP conflating sex - an activity AND gender - the column name we use when we separate humans into female and male.

[@shmuelrosenthal6661]

You are so confused. Sex is how humans are classified into male and female categories. Gender is sociological gobbledygook.

[@hebber1961]

It's been an utter disaster. For everyone.

[@cubemerula5264]

You're discussing feminism without one single male guest. So, I'm guessing you didn't really want to solve anything, understand anything or come to any viable conclusion. Is it the good ol' "We don't want you to solve our problems, we just want you to listen"?

[@swooningtree]

I mean, if it was a broader topic like "The problem with modern progressive thinking in the West", I guess you'd have a point? I don't think any reasonable person thinks that men aren't capable of valuable philosophical contributions to feminism but they're obviously not the group of humans it's centred on lol

[@evolutionisus4879]

Feminism centers women, not men.🙄

[@cubemerula5264]

@@evolutionisus4879 "Centers"? So it's not really bright women, is it now?

[@evolutionisus4879]

Haven’t got a clue to what you’re talking about dude. Feminism is only four and about women no men allowed we don’t need any men on a feminist panel. Of course, some of these women are feminist especially the one who says patriarchy doesn’t exist in the western world indicates she’s had a rectal cranial inversion.😂

[@Missfredawallace]

I was curious how Stock and Harrington would avoid their usual terfery in the presence of Khachiyan

[@angelagreen242]

Urgh, go away

[@swooningtree]

?

[@coelecanth13]

Five pointless women talking about nothing. Riveting.

[@ankit5820]

I think there is enough scope for future feminism in second amd third world country to make academically politically and socially work on feminism watching and solving or scanning the societies like the good way they did and were in many many ways able to do good for equality/women in first world countries. Eg india having right wing rise which has intrinsic anti feminist aggression and feeling of establishing patriarchy in hindu nationalists way and africa in religio or other ways.

[@emperorgaeseric3314]

The sad truth is that we men have checked out. It's too much work trying to parse out every fking micro-aggression, and new issue women bring to the fore. WOMEN need to fix women. We are busy fixing everything else.

[@cgpcgp3239]

if men fixed men you would not have posted typical male grievance. 🙄

[@evolutionisus4879]

Men just need to learn to take care of themselves and not expect women to do it automatically. Those days are over.

[@evolutionisus4879]

I have no regrets of the sexual freedom I experienced in 40-50 yrs ago. I learned so much about self and other never thought of it as slutty sex because we hippies made love. Such great generational differences.

[@Sociology_Tube]

"in the western world patriarchy effectively doesnt exist anymore" unless you are an immigrant woman or not white, wealthy, middle class...then has patriarchy really dissapeared? THIS IS SUCH IMPORTANT WORK ALL FIVE OF YOU DO THANK YOU

[@The.Scum.Z]

Depends on the existance of men,son,father,grand father,friend and actually women

[@hatepaste]

Feminism is like Disney Star Wars. It’s dead, and everyone hates it.

[@bkilg2509]

Lol. I disagree, the trans mivment has mad me more sure that we need it. Eve it it has been a shitshow

[@hatepaste]

@@bkilg2509 just because Darth Vadar was turned back from the dark side doesn’t mean he didn’t deserve to die for bringing the empire in the first place.

[@bkilg2509]

@@hatepaste I can understand you thinking that. Though I'm impressed you managed to understand my comment 😆

[@TaweEthio]

​@@bkilg2509the trans movement js feminism

[@Sociology_Tube]

like as a male I have no interest in children or being a mother,.

[@psychobabblewithspier]

It’s disheartening to see a panel of intelligent women only mentioning children with the intention of self-elevation. The essence of femininity, the purpose of womanhood is the sacrifice only we can make for our children- their needs should be the primary focus of all discussions on how to move forwards and men/women’s well-being the secondary consideration. This panel did nothing but self-aggrandize for a whole hour.

[@evolutionisus4879]

Many women discover after they have children, that they don’t want to stay at home and take care of them. To make a generalization of this is grossly unscientific.

[@TaweEthio]

And there are deadbeat fathers too we know.

[@TheKatrinaC]

Have you considered why that is? I don’t think these women are denying this. Every mother needs a break , personal space is still a part of being a mother even if she is temporarily a vessel for sustenance. Beside the fact that the pressure to get back to work and maintain your status /career in society is so high(cost of living) but also many women in cosmopolitan cities have no “village” of familial relationships that can assist and even celebrate that time with your children UNLESS they outsource through paid childcare - which then reinforces the necessity to leave your children

[@simgrmemaj8075]

And nothing must come between a woman and short term gratification

[@TheKatrinaC]

@@simgrmemaj8075😢