"Has Final Fantasy 14 Killed World of Warcraft?" | Kip Reacts to Josh Strife Hayes

[@filipvadas7602]

The problem with WoW is that the devs simply got *complacent* The game changed, but it didn't *evolve* FF14 on the other hand has been changed on a fundimental level so many times to get to where it is now its *insane*

[@viktorgabriel2554]

This

[@eodyn7]

You know it's not 2019 anymore, right?

[@IzzyPR2010]

Also FF14 listens to their player base while WoW ignores their players when they complain.

[@Spiritwonder420]

@@IzzyPR2010 are you still in the past or simply coping?

[@IzzyPR2010]

@@Spiritwonder420 Let me guess, you're one of those WoW fans that can't tolerate any criticism of that game

[@FubukiTheIcyKing]

To be honest Activision Blizzard killed their game by tuning towards meta huggers.

[@KipReacts]

We're seeing this with Destiny 2 right now. D2 made me understand WoW players a little more.

[@FubukiTheIcyKing]

@@KipReacts And Dragon Ball the Breakers is having this issue as well. The gatcha skills for survivors is stupidly overpowering and raiders are outright quitting the role meaning matchmaking is screwed.

[@mielliot13]

@@KipReacts Its upsetting that D2 isn't diablo 2 anymore T.T

[@HH-hd7nd]

@@KipReacts I'm sorry put you really should've done a bit more research before making this video because it is completely out of touch with reality. The video you're reacting to was made during the low point of WoW - which is the middle of the Shadowlands expansion. It is over 2 years old. Things have change drastically since then. Here are a few points you completely missed: 1) Dragonflight is a good expansion. 2) WoW lost the Nr 1 spot only for a short amount of time when Asmongold dragged a lot of his followers to FFXIV. That trend is over now and WoW is back in the Nr. 1 spot for a long time now. According to some data analysts WoW is actually back to about 7-8 million players in total; the difference is that there are several versions of WoW now. Most of Asmongold's followers are back to playing WoW btw. 3) Blizzard have changed their approach a lot. They established a community council. They listen a lot more to feedback now. 4) There are several established ways to play WoW: Vanilla, Cataclysm Classic, Hardcore, Season of Discovery, Retail and time limited events (Plunderstorm which was a Fortnite-like Battle Royale and currently Mists of Pandaria Remix which is a blast even though there are a few issues). All are unique and a lot of people switch between these different versions to keep things fresh. 5) There have been content droughts in the past - not anymore. In Retail Blizzard managed to keep up a patch cycle of 8 weeks for the entirety of Dragonflight (except this very last cycle of the expansion which will most likely be about 3 months...which doesn't matter because we have Remix to play during these months).

[@KipReacts]

@HH-hd7nd I said during the video that this was before Dragonflight. Speaking with friends that play WoW, including stopping again after Dragonflight's launch, I think the video is fine. I can say that from events I listed my personal view of WoW is that they haven't sold me on a subscription or earned my business, I'll just play XIV.

[@mr.mystere4999]

I don't even have to watch the video to know the answer to the question, and I'm coming from FFXIV's side of things. No, FFXIV did not kill World of Warcraft and was never trying to. Activision-Blizzard was the one trying to. FFXIV needs the competition. We don't want games like WoW to go away any time soon.

[@damiadwalker8464]

Mmos are actively tryingbto add solo player content. The reason ff14 is so good is cuz you can socialize as much or as little as you want

[@KipReacts]

Being a Tank in AI Dungeons and Roulettes needs work. DPS is fine, but Tanking is rough.

[@meteorwalkergg]

Tanking any dungeon atm is inherently a way tougher-than-it-should-ever-be situation because you have very little agency on pull sizes. Impatient players having their " time wasted " if you play the game even slightly slower than wall-to-wall (the time difference is negligible & often makes things take even LONGER due to extremely poor communication skills on the impatient players' part, resulting in wipes, which takes WAY LONGER than slightly smaller pull sizes lmao). Yeahhh. I prefer tanking stuff like Treasure Maps or Duty Support / Trust or soloing old content because I'd rather slow myself down even more & painfully pull 1-2 packs instead of 2-4; painfully watch the NPCs single target than deal with unemployed dudes, who don't even know me like that, cracking the whip worse than my irl boss at my irl job where I get paid irl money. Because even NPCs single targeting is still less painful than watching basically an entire Netflix series + doing a series of light chores to get to the video game part of the video game just to get backseated + rushed. So many of us would rather slow things down EVEN MORE than be denied almost every opportunity to cook because content creators urge players to homogenize themselves into metagaming practices in casual, pickup group content that doesn't even close to call for optimization strats. Speedrunners/parsers waste my time (& everyone connecting to the lobbying servers at that moment) SO MUCH, by choosing blind matchmaking > pre forming a party. So people like me will always choose soloing or only tanking content where pulls are predetermined over arguing with someone from r/TalesFromDF. If it was r/TalesFromPF I would be happily, naturally inclined to wall-to-wall pull by now. Easily. If PUG players & I got to cook together. The more optimizers pre-form, the less I solo. Pretty simple formula that starts at the content creator level: stop telling PUG tanks they should only W2W. It's literally that simple. We'll cook a little and naturally W2W if you'd stop wasting our time by rushing us through the parts where we build experience & perspective & confidence. Cause and effect. Normalize PF usage for all players/content & watch soloing plummet back into being a niche challenge playstyle again. Right now we only mostly choose it just to regain our own agency.

[@Mathaeuz]

Scaling and class changes aside, I feel like early game in WoW (leveling from 1-to-current) has changed a lot and turned into a bit of a mess, especially when it comes to the "time travel" system (Chromie). Thinking about giving FFXIV a go for comparison.

[@kagamine14]

The biggest difference is content is locked behind msq. You will essentially level your main class from 1-max by msq alone up to endwalker! All the other side quest/fates/dungeons are good exp for your other classes. If your down to binge a tv series long story that only gets better and better, don’t sweat on the leveling ✌️

[@iceman3317]

@@kagamine14 While this is true, don't fail to mention that you have to go through the MSQ and nothing is account wide. So if you make multiple characters which is a big deal for RPers, you have to go through everything again. Then you have all the jobs to level, but only have enough side quests to level maybe 1 or 2 jobs. Then you have to spam dungeons over and over and over and over again. Until you get to 71 where you can do Bozja if you do the SB Alliance Raids that quickly levels from 71 to 80. And then you are back to spamming dungeons over and over again, or doing beast tribe quests.

[@meteorwalkergg]

@@iceman3317 This is so suboptimal. I just earn a little extra cash irl, or set some aside, and purchase a boost. I don't see the point in spending more time skipping the game than actually playing the game. I'm either PLAYING the game or boosting - why would I turn this into a 9-to-5?? When I already have a 9-to-5 that'll buy me the instant boost? The HOURS of labor being expended for the same exact goalpost is kind of absurd: either play the game and enjoy it or work enough irl that you can afford to skip to the part of the game you find fun. And please, I'm begging you, use Party Finder for these clears. Random people in Duty Finder aren't you and you're wasting their time & patience whenever you spam dungeons using random matchmaking instead of petitioning to fellow speedrunners.

[@nikkmaster99]

Hey Kip just wanted to let you know that I always watch when one of your vids hits my page. I know that react content is causing you some headaches right now but i always throw you on when I'm playing ff14 or doing dishes and the like. Keep up the hard work and have a good one!

[@KipReacts]

Thank you! I really do appreciate it.

[@viktorgabriel2554]

WoW used to have the world and the story you could sink your teeth in to now its really sad story telling random political drama showed in to quests where it dose not belong and really bad community that is desperate to relive the time where they had fun i myself stopped at Battle for Azaroth as that was the first really big crack when it came to the story and world building everything after that has just gotten worse even their Cinematic the thing Blizzard could not mess up are mhe thees days and so full of repeat what we did last time but this time swap a character out whit another one. The best evidence we have that the biggest reason why there are still players is buyers remorse is the fact that about 90% of players treat the game like a job raid log weekly dungeon log then sit AFK for up to 30 hours a week in a capital city praying that a streamer comes online this is not the same game i fell in love whit back in the day this is a carcass that refuses to stay dead

[@MoonTiger88]

Glad you reacted to Josh, he should be absolutely fine with your kind of react content, you add quite a lot of extra to it :)

[@MrSilvart]

I feel like Kip's information is a bit outdated here. Going through ARR nowadays is really fun and easy, even the post patch content. The great filter was a meme from before the rework, when you couldn't fly in ARR at all. Players/ streamers breeze through it easily now. Another factor I think he's not really taking into consideration is how much of XIV you can play completely for free. That alone gets so many people into the door if they have even a passing interest in the game. XIV would absolutely decimate WoW if the current versions released for the first time simultaneously.

[@theshig9618]

Was not expecting a Legend of the Five Rings reference to happen during this video.

[@KipReacts]

I quote L5R stuff regularly.

[@NagaTales]

As someone who played WoW from (technically) Burning Crusade through to Cataclysm, with returns for Pandaria and a spot of Legion, it's my frustrations with WoW's design that made FFXIV such a good fit. Everything that annoyed me with the direction WoW was going was solved in FFXIV. And it's why FFXIV is my most-played game of all time by a power of ten.

[@kazekamiha]

The phrase 'No king rules forever' comes from World of Warcraft itself; Lich King I think.

[@Jemstoness]

The unexpected Mabinogi mention

[@miskoma3882]

8:30 god i was not expecting to heard mabinogi be mentioned....i sunk entirely to much time and money into that game

[@KipReacts]

I have a buddy that loves Mabi so much.

[@miskoma3882]

Mabi was the game i was addicted to during high school (rip that poor laptop that had no business running games)

[@AgentTex13]

As someone who sleeps, sleep is for the weak! If it can bleed it can be killed. I used to play LoL and for me, how my addiction got broken was a compounding effect of Riot Games AND Windows making decisions I didn't like or want. I had to drop LoL in order to move to Linux.

[@TheMontablac]

Kip has outbreak perfected? Then he know the horrors of the hanger

[@kagamine14]

I would argue against you on WoW beating in the early game, but I can see your point. However playing the two games personally, I found the early game for wow to be extremely confusing, maybe it’s because of their jump into whatever expansion for leveling way of, essentially skipping your character up. For me ffxiv at least narratively introduced all the zones and not minding the reading, Didnt think it was a slog. It was cool learning of the other zones in WoW but strange that they were all essentially skippable, at least that was my experience as a newbie joining because a friend asked. Idk maybe I was just rushed through content a bit too fast because of a friend, anyone else have similar experience?

[@iceman3317]

It is because people for years have hated the type of leveling that FF14 has in WoW. We would have to go through every expansion and it just wasn't fun, especially if you level multiple alts which people love making in WoW. And I still hate how FF14 is. I want to make multiple characters. but it is such a slog to get through all the expansions when in most cases, you will hit lv 80 before you are even done with Shadowbringers and then you are stuck with being forced to do the rest of Shadowbringers and all of Endwalker. It is good for 1 go. But then when you've done it once, you don't want to do it again... especially when, confirmed by Yoshi P, there is 159 hours worth of cutscenes. Many in which you are forced to read and if you are a slow reader, that 159 hours jumps to 250+ hours.

[@CplVeers]

The problem with WoW is the people that make the game do not play their own game. I'm not sure they play video games at all. Edit: The straw broke the camel's back for me was I played shadowlands for 2 weeks after lunch and I thought to myself I don't want to do this anymore. I played the entirety of BFA. I started playing wow full time back during wrath of the lich King. I started playing FFXIV in the middle of December 2020 and I have never gone back nor have I had the desire to go back to well.

[@m0o0ntecrist08]

WHY WE LIKE FF14 OVER WOW its simple no P2W NO FOMO and the devs are listening and humble down to earth thats it .side note i like raiding in ff14 and the story of course

[@Spiritwonder420]

Oke weeb

[@m0o0ntecrist08]

@@Spiritwonder420 i prefer to be called a weeb than to be called a furry

[@ironwolfsaber2739]

I never felt any comfortin wow, toxic dungeon runners where pretty bad in lich king and I can only imagine how it got worse when things like torgast came out. The destiny was easy to leave when they started to perceptioaly delete things and stuff I was getting never felt permanent.

[@davydave6872]

Do you think you'll ever watch noclip's 3 part documentary on Final Fantasy 14s transition from 1.0 to A Realm Reborn?

[@KipReacts]

Depends on the length for a reaction, but I could watch it off-stream.

[@ealtar]

i never thought Wow was an interesting game .... i never got it and i despise that so many games are just "wow but not " Ro , FF14, guild wars 1-2 , BDO , hell even the og secret world are much better games to sink time .... and money into ..

[@bxnaxmxxnaxx1914]

BASED

[@natebroadus8474]

Blizzard is killing itself. Instead of trying to create with one cohesive vision for the game, they keep splintering off to try to keep the player base subbed. By that I mean, instead of improving the new player experience for retail, they're creating Plunderstorm to try and keep their players from leaving for Fortnite, or other similar games. They have some good ideas, like Seasons of Discovery, but that's another attempt to keep the old players around, not necessarily to bring in the new. In short, they're not playing to win, they're playing not to lose. If you include all the offshoots of WoW (Plunderstorm, retail, SoD, classic and its offshoots, WoW is still king in numbers--but FFXIV is just behind them, and the HUGE difference is, the XIV community isn't divided between a half dozen versions of the game. It's one cohesive fanbase that continues to grow larger by the day.

[@N0MoreZER0S]

Final fantasy 14 didn’t kill WOW, Blizzard is doing that themselves.

[@mikfhan]

Wow today would send players thru Exiles Reach and some of BFA before youre stuck at lv20 but ff14 would send you through the first two expansions until 70 if you stick it out. Voting with your wallet does not require a sense of quality, only a big wallet.

[@Angelic_Hero]

i personally found wows early game to be a massive slog to play through compared to a realm reborns. wows combat feeling a lot slower to me made it all the worse so I've yet to manage to get past lvl 15 compared to ff14 were i have multiple lvl 50+ characters with multiple classes at 50

[@eternalsummer8409]

I feel that the only things that can kill mmos are, time, corporate greed, and Josh strife hayes

[@eternalsummer8409]

Rip tera

[@ssjtruncks90]

No it hasn’t. I’ve played both and both are good games/lore. To be honest the only thing that can kill WoW is blizzard and for FF14 it’s SE. I mean Rift was supposed to kill WoW back in the day 😆and that game is a shell of what it could have been imo.

[@ryanjones2297]

Nothing can kill WoW, except for the WoW dev team and execs.

[@griffca4814]

No. Dragon flight was very very good. Give them another like it and people will flock back in droves.

[@iceman3317]

No. FF14 did not kill WoW. WoW probably still has more subscribers as well, especially with how many people are taking a break from FF14 because of the lackluster post game. Personally, I've been playing FF14 more, however I've barely played it since the start of the year. Because stuff happened. I still played it, but eh. But I also still go back from WoW. I call it a season of gaming. With WoW I always take large breaks because I don't feel like I have to 'stay caught up' like so many people feel like. But for WoW, I've always played more during September to December and then June (Sometimes into February) And for FF14, it used to be Runescape, but now I play it more during February to September. I don't know why the fanbase are so obsessed with the idea of FF14 killing WoW. Or any MMO for that matter. Can both games no co exist? Even Yoshi P has stated they haven't won nor are they trying to win because they are very different games. And then you have the FF14 Community flaming anyone who says anything negative about WoW and claims WoW player are blind, but FF14 players do the same thing. They thinking everything in FF14 is perfect, but that is far far from the truth. I am sure some WoW Players say the same thing, but WoW Players are not afraid to bash Blizz for mistakes. Although from what I know, Japanese Players bash the hell out of Yoshi P and their team for mistakes, so I don't understand why western players can't see that FF14 is far from perfect, just like WoW. they are in a nearly identical boat.

[@Spiritwonder420]

The amount of people that played wow in the past in the comments section and clearly did not look at the game with the current exp how Blizzard is listening again.and changing things.how the current exp is actually received in a good light is mind blowing.but i guess only the current mmo that they are playing can be good.and wow bad.the ff14 community is definitely something

[@meteorwalkergg]

nah, I tried Dragonflight & the new player experience is absolute garbage

[@antyrak7905]

Nah, wow commited seppuku

[@IzzyPR2010]

You're commenting on a video from 2 years ago?

[@meteorwalkergg]

Why not? Raiders use optimization strats from two decades ago.

[@bxnaxmxxnaxx1914]

Nah, I'd Win

[@SomeGuyFromUtah]

This is a reaction to an older video right? Wow is estimated to have over 7 million subs atm, which is double the number of subs they had in 2019 before wow classic launch. This is from an investor call this year. I'm not sure ffxiv even has 1 mill... if they do its definitely not active players... I have several friends with ffxiv subs that only keep it to keep their house.

[@KipReacts]

This was pre Dragonflight.

[@ironwolfsaber2739]

Wow doest do subs the same way most moms do. A player who logs into classic, class burning crusade and current live wow counts as three "subs".

[@SomeGuyFromUtah]

@ironwolfsaber2739 I'm not 100% sure that's true in this case... this was part of a financial earnings call where there would be some legal obligations on the information provided since it's a publicly traded company... but it's been a little while since I looked at it, so maybe I'm remembering wrong.

[@OldDragon0]

Wow still better.

[@eodyn7]

It's hard to say FF14 killed WoW when WoW has millions more players. These weebs just love to live in a fantasy land of delusion.

[@tenebraequeene]

It's almost like if you watched the video Kip and Josh in the video stated that FFXIV can't/won't kill WoW only Blizzard can do that.

[@tenebraequeene]

Also, the three most popular mmos rn are 1) WoW 2) ORS 3) and FFXIV, so no, FFXIV did not beat WoW it didn't even beat Old School Runescape. But that comes to age, nostalgia, and playerbase. We're not delusional. We all *know* FFXIV will never ""beat"" WoW unless Blizzard by some craziness implodes on itself.

[@Rivvy250]

Tell me you didnt watch the video without telling me you didnt watch the video. They literally say this didnt happen and both say that wow killed wow. Some wow fans are just as unhinged as some ff fans when it comes to people saying stuff like this about their game, crazy.