Have DJI and ZF killed the mid-power e-bike? Game-changing tech launched | The MBR Show

The big news this month is the arrival of drone giant DJI, and automotive behemoth ZF, into the e-bike market. DJI was the biggest surprise for most people, with not only a motor that (on paper) wipes the floor with most of the competition, but a whole new bike to mount it on. Yes, Amflow is effectively a DJI start-up brand solely created to bring this high-end motor to life. We discuss the potential of this system, ponder some of the possible weaknesses, and try to answer whether it's worth all the hype.
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ZF is a huge automotive brand supplying gearboxes, electronics and even complete electric drivetrains. And it has entered the e-bike market with an impressive looking motor, boasting lightweight, compact dimensions, and plenty of power. Will it be enough to put the frighteners on some more established motor brands? And will we see it appear on e-bikes from mainstream brands soon?
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We also speculate about what's new with Bosch's unreleased Gen 5 CX motor, spotted on numerous bikes at the recent Eurobike show.
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We also take a look at the latest Specialized Stumpjumper 15. Alan has been to the launch of this significant new bike and dug deep into the details with the product manager and suspension engineer. We find out about the new Genie shock, and why it's such a clever bit of kit, as well as discover Alan's first ride impressions. For Alan's full first ride review, packed with insight, click the link below.
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Finally, we find out more about YT's latest e-bike, the Decoy SN. Danny went to the launch for this, and goes through all the details, as well as revealing his pick of the new range, and why. To read more about his first ride impressions, click the link below.
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Time stamps:
0:30 DJI motor/Amflow bike
5:50 ZF motor
9:09 Secret new Bosch motor
12:36 Specialized Stumpjumper 15
17:11 YT Decoy SN
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[@mattving61]

Here's a wild idea. UMM... Universal Motor Mount? I suppose that would reduce manufacturers bottom line a little too much though.

[@tamasvarga67]

Yeah, that’s a wild idea as it would hamper innovation. For chargers, it would be good though…

[@scottpratico1315]

Like motorcycle brands do?

[@godlike0630]

Not gonna work. Because every motor has different battery, controls etc. And ohhh, different firmware.

[@dicksplatts007]

​@@godlike0630 that's like saying you can't change from SRAM drivetrain to Shimano because the hubs different. If the motor mounts are the same they can offer the same frame in any config they want at different price points, also it's only like changing a motor in a car and changing the ECU and clocks so they're all coded together

[@mattving61]

@@scottpratico1315 not at all a similar comparison.

[@jpravetz]

The headline should be the ZF's lifetime warranty (this is true, correct?). I'm tired of replacing expensive Brose motors every two years. DJI looks sexy, but more tech could mean more things to fail. We should talk more about reliability and service, else the vendors will continue to ignore these issues.

[@MBRmagazine]

Good point. One of ZF’s key selling points is that it’s designed to be easy to remove and service.

[@axiomic]

Oooh I wonder if the DJI will have a "Return to Home" option 😝

[@Photoshopuzr]

You are the people we need speaking for real buyers that pay with their own money 12:14 "not the freeloaders that get bikes for free all the time" I appreciate you said that. Im a long-time rider that build my own analog bikes over the years. it's gotten crazy in this day and age where there are no options like to upgrade motors or batteries as they become better and better. Such a shame.

[@Twentykixx]

I’m on the wait yet. If a full power eMTB can manage @+630wh and @+85nm with a weight under @20kilo with reasonable tires, enduro casing etc., it’ll push the dial to purchase. Nothing is close to this yet, so I’m keeping my rig for now. No need to jump on the bandwagons for every acute and sometimes minuscule or limited technologies coming into the market. I’ll run 170/170 and do everything with it using adjustable suspension. 👍🏼

[@dmac8247]

Agreed. This tech is in its infancy and bikes are going to get lighter, smaller and have more power in just a few years from now, and all these bikes people are buying now will be obsolete. E Bikes are fun and can serve a purpose- but I love the simplicity even more now of a good ol mechanical fully Amish bike that can be ridden anywhere, anytime through power outages and the zombie apocalypse. Part of me hates turning a bike into a god damn phone with that touch screen 🤦🏻‍♂️ the last thing I want is fiddling around with a screen on my bike.

[@Twentykixx]

@@dmac8247 the AMFLOW E-bike is being released that is @20kg and +100nm, with a 600wh or 800wh battery… I will try it. 😀

[@dirtylaps]

what's the rig you're holding to out of interest?

[@Twentykixx]

@@dirtylaps not out of interest, the Amflow is a trail rig. My current bike is still an unstoppable everything bike. Modest DH and everything under that. 🤘🏼

[@danielduesentriebjunior]

Anyhow, the most impressive product I have seen recently is MGU Pinion.

[@johnminichielli8957]

Wow, 120 NM torque ! I've had an FLX with a Bafang M600 small, lightweight motor with 120 NM of torque for 6 years. I now have 20, 000 miles on it without skipping a beat, and I've done 13 mile 8- 20 % grade climbs without ever overheating the motor.

[@dannygarcia4573]

Love these two. Such a great duo. Bought my first hardtail based on their reviews

[@MBRmagazine]

Thanks Danny! 👍

[@Marvin2Shoes]

I have two road hikes with rim brakes. My workout bike is an emtb. It weighs 24.5kg and I only use the motor in high headwind situations. There are no hills on my ride. I consider drop bars to be only for people without back pain and those who usually drive cars who have to get where they are going as fast as possible whilst appreciating as little as they can of the countryside they are travelling through. The upright riding position in a head-wind is better offset by help from an electric motor than tucking your head up your ar$e and spinning like a crazy person.

[@FrankyDesign]

I hope DJI will make MGU (Motor Gearbox Unit) in the future.

[@PhilosoFox]

ZF Motor provides a great user experience: compact for better bike designs, noise level of electric sirr sounding like honest power up, well adjustable acceleration and support that doesn't let you hit a wall at cut-off point but provides what you wish for, weight close to a light weight system. As of now, ZF omitted a gearbox for higher volume sales at deeper price points, but that's exactly what I wish for: a superior Pinion version in the years to come. They might have opted for aged battery tech, but till then will surely up their ante as well. I'm definitely curious how efficient the motor is as of now and where it will be in two years!

[@jimg.4913]

Been sitting on the sidelines waiting for the full implementation of the gearbox full power e-bike with belt drive. Getting close but the advances are coming so fast and thick its like the early days of phone/pc development when you were already two years out of date the second you made the purchase.

[@MBRmagazine]

Definitely feels like one of those moments where it pays to see how the dust settles.

[@markwaughman2842]

Thinking of going to the darkside ( ebike ) . But torn so much choice. Was liking the orbea wild , mondraker dune . Then yt brought out the new decoy which is a lot of bike for the money . Now the amflow has been announced, which looks great. No doubt there will be more to . Its a nightmare.

[@MBRmagazine]

We feel your pain! Although also a nice position to be in. Guess the choice is, do you buy something now with a nice discount, or wait a few months for the new stuff to come out, read/watch some reviews on bikes like the Amflow, and then make a decision. There's not really a wrong decision - plenty of older current bikes still ride brilliantly and have plenty of power and range.

[@Zetler]

Unless they can get these motors on 5K bikes they won’t make a dent. The much hyped Pinion motor is stuck on a 10K bike and it’s so rare that it might as well not exist.

[@HFrizzler]

I saw the other day a new trekking / city bike with Pinion MGU at 5500€ and an eMTB for 7500€.

[@yurioira5760]

another wild idea, DJI can start thinking replacing current motor systems out there (wiring, & batt included) & mounts in the market like YAMAHAs and SHIMANOs :-0 instead of going into full mode of creating frames for their motor. :-0

[@tomcagle5324]

Most that don't race won't need 110 Nm for the DJI and big overrun for tech climbing. It's their wireless electronics/display/selectors/batteries set the absolute gold standard. The big news is ZF-90. It's compact size at 90Nm is the perfect platform for a compact 8-spd gearbox....this the future! And they already make gearboxes...that's the real gamechanger: the 20.5 kg lighter weight, full-power gearbox.🫨 The true unicorn!🦄

[@MBRmagazine]

Good points. Be interesting to see if ZF goes down the gearbox route. 👍

[@danielduesentriebjunior]

20.5kg lighter??? Godness me, their bikes must be made from Helium.

[@tomcagle5324]

@@danielduesentriebjunior yes, Prof Proper Grammer, u definitely GOT me: "...the 20.5 kg, lighter weight..." Comma makes all the difference?😁

[@DuBstep115]

Bs, I want 250Nm

[@tomcagle5324]

​@@DuBstep115 Not me, I also have full sus fat bike, it's class 1 at 750W and 160Nm no throttle...torque is insane. Can almost climb a wall with it and has massive overrun...too powerful in turbo except for short bursts on straight line climbs. I prefer 90Nm motor.💪

[@The.JZA.]

Even if the new motors are a bit more powerful, the existing motors are already fantastic so it’s not like it’s revolutionary, just an evolution. The Bosch Gen 4 has been out for years now so expect to see a Bosch Gen 5 that will most likely compete with these new motors some time soon. Also I’ve been e-biking for about 3.5 years and I miss the workout and strength building of acoustic bikes so I have ordered a Stumpjumper 15 Expert and I’ll keep my e-bike as well.

[@MBRmagazine]

Enjoy the Stumpy! 👌

[@jpravetz]

What is revolutionary is a lifetime warranty on the ZF. Huge news when compared to the sorry state of reliability of current motors.

[@The.JZA.]

@@jpravetz that is pretty sweet for sure but still not enough to make me want to upgrade haha. My bike is 2 years old and probably has another 2-3 good years left in it.

[@jpravetz]

@@The.JZA. For sure not a reason to upgrade. It's like an old car that takes more dollars to service than to buy a new one. With the poor Specialized gen2 motor reliability combined with our local weather, my currently-being-repaired Brose motor will hopefully get me to the point in time where the new motors are available.

[@The.JZA.]

@@jpravetz Yeah if your bike is getting a bit worn out then time to upgrade for sure. Thankfully mine is still running strong so I'll keep it a couple more years. Good luck!

[@throwaway3756]

It's really hard to listen to you guys talk over each other.

[@GVPARTS]

Where is it? What does it look like. Have you tested it? Show us what you are talking about.

[@FelixRisingOriginal]

Ultimately the frame is being built by some OEM... it's not like DJI has to build a frame from scratch

[@ebikescrapper3925]

Will it have much impact in the BBS02 and BBSHD? I don't think so, unless one of the big brands use a his then it won't affect Bosch etc.

[@sometingwongwai9679]

it will when the complete bike is 1/3 of the price and everything is open source like Bafang and Suron

[@ericb.4358]

Very interesting power advances. These advances can ALSO be utilized in HUB MOTORS. (BLASPHEMY!) Seriously, hub motors are NECESSARY for cargo bikes and especially EMTB cargo bikes like my E-CELLS Super Monarch Crown and Kings Crown. Hub motors don't put strain on the chain. With my bike's 400 pound limit saving the chain is crucial.

[@nickexarheas2880]

This does not change anything. Making ebikes affordable will change everything.

[@petermaidment1175]

ZF missed the boat with the size and shape of that battery, what is the point of a small motor when the battery is the size and shape of agoods train?

[@jpravetz]

Hopefully they can source some alternatives, or allow bike manufacturers to choose batteries from different vendors. I think this is possible with Shimano motors, which is one of the reasons Norco went with Shimano motors on some of their bikes.

[@MBRmagazine]

ZF says it is an open source system, which suggests third party batteries will be compatible

[@peter572]

AMFLOW started selling in mainland China 2 days ago! I am going to test ride the bike this weekend.

[@stephencoles5447]

How is it?

[@peter572]

@@stephencoles5447 The test was very brief on a paved road. The motor seems quite powerful compared to the Specialized Levo SL that I have ridden in the past. I did not engage the max boost mode. The power delivery seemed smooth. No surprises from the frame geometry. The frame was Large, although my size is XL. The local DJI shop is planning a more extended test soon in a more suitable location..

[@WM84629]

I know the DJI motor system looks awesome but I’d be very curious how the bike actually rides when the full reviews come out.

[@mumenraider]

The bike rides really well. the Motor great , insta power,. The automatic power function is better than other brands.

[@WM84629]

@@mumenraider that’s good to know thanks. Would you say it has a plush enduro bike feel or more of a popping playful trail bike feel? Cheers

[@mumenraider]

@@WM84629 playful Trail/eundro bike . Trid the Nicolai Saturn G16 MGU, it felt a reaklly heavy bike + the controls a bit complicated than that of DJI . The DJI offers simple to use and better bike than the traditional manufactures. Like form the Drones and their Action camera,. The Motor has 4 modes eco, Auto , turbo and boost . Unlike that of Bosch, shimano , Pinion. The controlls are staraight forward and better and user frendly.

[@mumenraider]

@@WM84629 Talked to the R&D guys and gave them suggestions . 1. Make more affordable bike with Alu frame without the wireless shifters . 2. If every thing is wireless why not the Automatic shifting . He told me that this function witll come next year. 3. Regarding the future connectivity , He told me that it coul dbe possible to connect the other DJI prducts with the bike too. i really loved that with the bikle you can track Cadence, alivation and more with in the bike .

[@jpravetz]

Hopefully reliability is better than the current crop of motors as well. And replacement or service are not so painful.

[@amir_mtb]

Thanks for this review, you guys make really good points and food for thought throughout the episode

[@MBRmagazine]

Thanks! Glad you enjoyed it!

[@nickclarkuk]

I am really excited by this. My specialised is less than a year old but when I feel like a change I may go with a DJI system. It’ll be interesting to see if other mtb makers start using this system.

[@MBRmagazine]

We’ve added a video on how the bike rides, and a written first ride on the website too if you’re interested.

[@nickclarkuk]

@@MBRmagazine I watched that first ! Absolutely loving the content you’re putting out. I’m a heavier rider at 95kg and do like to hammer downhill so it’ll be interesting to see how these light weight frames fair and how the motors cope with a Uk winter 😬. I don’t know how many drone pilots fly in the pouring rain and land in mud 😂. I really hope they’ve nailed it first time .

[@MBRmagazine]

Thanks for the kind words! 🙏

[@corran-soul]

Put a 1/3 size battery in the bike. Really small and light, and I’ll have 1 or 2 more in the car and switch them out between laps, and charge it in the car while riding. It’s the battery that’s heavy…

[@lucamontangero3493]

I'm really interested in a comparison between the new canyon spectral and the new stumpy being the canyon much cheaper but with the same idea behind.. reducing the travel to combine two bikes in one making it playfull but capable at the same time

[@MBRmagazine]

Our plan is to test both these bikes in a Trail Bike of the Year test this year 👍

[@Wingnut65]

Do any of these better quality batteries ever catch fire? I’m thinking it’s most likely the cheaper batteries which are potentially more volatile. Thanks in advance. 👍

[@MBRmagazine]

Good question. A battery from a reputable manufacturer that’s stored and charged in the correct way is going to be much, much safer than some random kit ordered off the internet. But any battery has the potential to catch fire.

[@rollopost]

No they could make an even smaller lighter unit?

[@cheeeeeeeef]

Interesting, but not really viable for the UK is it? It would still need to cut out at 15mph and would be un-insurable for most companies due to max wattage?

[@MBRmagazine]

Yes, the motor will have to cut out at 15.5mph, but the peak power rating won’t matter since it will likely meet the 250w continuous power standard.

[@marcelb.7224]

For bicycle caravans you need a lot of torque

[@arturlisowicz5271]

Waiting until zf starts competing with Pinion

[@DuBstep115]

Lol, I don't want mechatronic problems on my bike as well. S-tronic sucks

[@outbackwack368]

I'll go pick a bike in about 18 months... by then the bugs should be worked out with this new gen stuff. Until then, I'm still riding my hardtail at 65 years old.

[@nicod974]

Touch screen on an ebike is pretty stupid in my opinion

[@Kirt44]

Yes I dont need that on my ebike

[@e_mtb]

It's still controllable via two remotes on the handle bar and you can lock the touch screen I think, so it's just an additional option to control it (e.g. while doing a break and you want to look up some infos / change some settings quickly)

[@dmac8247]

Right - I can’t stand my phone- last thing I want is more screens to fuck with.

[@robertpatrick3350]

Unless they include moisture sensors and better seals these will just fail in the same way and frequency as the current leading brands.

[@ashchbkv6965]

are they open source like bafang?

[@MBRmagazine]

To be honest, not sure. But we’d be surprised if they were.

[@ashchbkv6965]

@@MBRmagazine well, not gonna buy bikes with these then, we already don't own a lot of things we paid for, everything is so locked down and anti-repair now, can't let this happen to freaking bikes. gotta vote with my wallet

[@MBRmagazine]

Bosch is not open source, but you can still get the motors serviced independently. So it may not be a problem. Also ZF made a big point about its new motor being easy to remove and service.

[@jpravetz]

@@MBRmagazine And the ZF has a lifetime warranty, does it not? Huge news if true.

[@MBRmagazine]

We can’t find any mention of this on the press release or the website, but we’ll contact them to find out. 👍

[@timothyleach6319]

No one ever talks about the speed limit. Some of us don’t live in speed limited countries. I find e-bikes pretty much useless with a speed limit unless you on super steep uphill. What’s the point of more power when a small motor does the trick. I hardly ever use full power on the Bosch with a 24kg bike. And importantly if you are on a speed limit how much resistance does the motor have once speed limit is engaged! I think these are important points almost always missed.

[@freeflightfilms1]

lets see how hard wearing and durable these motors are after long heavy use, I would say from using many incl Yamaha and Bosch and talking to mecanics, Bosch is by far the leader in oveall durability and waterproof whereas Yamaha not completely and the worst the one Specialized used called Boze I beleive with most complaints.....

[@salvatoresansalone7018]

DJI, Brose, and others are awesome even if the masses never buy them. Why? Because they are pushing the brands that we would see in our local bike shops to compete. The next Shimano motor will be better because of it. That being said internal gearbox with motor is the future anyway but will Shimano make one?

[@sometingwongwai9679]

Just means more people can afford to buy EMTB.

[@jarkkomannisto6413]

Bafang m560 750w nominal / 1200w peak and 130nm torque..

[@The_Privateer]

As long as they use proprietary bolt patterns and closed source controller firmware - no thanks. Always a hot rodder and customizer for all things wheeled.

[@boofex1]

I can’t stop thinking about the Pinion MGU

[@downundermtb4744]

What bothers me with e-bikes with more power is welcome but wear and tear on the drivetrain and some trails might be hesitant to allow e-bikes in the future the direction DJI have taken this bike leaves me concerned then rather then welcoming a new competitor to the market.

[@MBRmagazine]

These are definitely legitimate concerns.

[@andymoss4285]

They should have cases their motors sit in which match a Bosch or shimano bolt pattern. Or manufacturers should decide on a foot print which newcomers should all adhere to. New proprietary things every year is going to make life too hard for manufacturers to trust what is the right thing to adopt and consumers don’t know what to choose. If existing motors start to disappear, those bikes are become waste as soon as the motor dies

[@jamlee344]

Need SRAM to make a Universal Motor Hanger.

[@tamasvarga67]

So the sizes and motor shapes locked to a specific pattern stopping innovation… fantastic idea! I think charging ports should be universal that would simplify things.

[@andymoss4285]

@@tamasvarga67 the choices are either 1: a standard 2: throwing away your bike when the manufacturer stops supporting you motor and it gets a bit dirty.

[@tamasvarga67]

@@andymoss4285 Yeah… you swap the motor with a different brand and it won’t work with the original battery and the rest of the electronic system as it was made as a ‘system’. And what about the batteries? They will die before the motor dies and they are not universal either there are more variations than motors.

[@andymoss4285]

@@tamasvarga67 which is why you need a standard.

[@Nugemart]

Design frames that can utilise multiple motors

[@MBRmagazine]

That would also involve standardising the battery dimensions, fixings, wiring, charger port, control unit shape and size… not impossible but very unlikely. Also some big differences in motor packaging - a ZF and TQ is a completely different size to a Bosch or Shimano.

[@tuco0x]

It is not 18th century science anymore. You guys are mixing up the old, obsolete metric system with the world-wide standard SI Metric System which resolves the ambiguity between kilogram-mass and kilogram-force a long time ago. Newton-meter and Watt are SI Metric System units where the unit of force (or weight) which make up those derived units is a Newton. Say "Mass" when referencing the unit kilogram. Otherwise, by your definition of weight, torque (= weight or force x distance) would = kilogram-meter and it does not. Static weight is a derived unit and is the product of mass multiplied by the acceleration of gravity. That is why something weighs less on the Moon than on Earth but their mass is the same at both of these locations. Welcome to the 21st Century.

[@aleszverca]

DJI(chinese) will have a problem with sales if they start collecting to much data...it's a strange world 🌎

[@bonzobanana1]

I wish ebike reviews would measure the discharge rate of the battery both voltage and current to give the true wattage. Here in Europe we have this farcical 250W rating which no mid-drive motor ebike adheres to. Bosch ebikes have been shown to be discharging at 23A I think continuously when climbing and a fresh 36V battery discharges at 42V initially. 42x23 is not 250W. I'd really like to know the true wattage of ebikes rather than this pretend 250W rating so when a ebike is giving its maximum torque I'd like to know how much wattage that is. I can't work out which motor is more efficient because the wattage given is typically manipulated somehow so really its up to reviewers to give factual information but many are sponsored by bike companies who want to pretend their ebikes are actually 250W. A 250W continuous motor is only 7A at 36V or 5A at 48V. Why can't Europe have honest wattage certification like the USA? It feels like all the European ebike manufacturer representative's should have 3 foot long noses. I'd like to know if one ebike motor manufacturer can produce 80Nm at 600W when another manufacturer uses 800W to get the same torque. At what point are we going to come clean about this 250W rating farce? Only the most gullible or most stupid believe these motors are 250W.

[@MBRmagazine]

This is an excellent point. As you say it is farcical, but motor brands won't reveal this kind of information, either because it risks their motors not meeting legislation, or because they don't want competitors to know, or potential liability issues. I have no idea. The only way we can really measure this is to stick them on a dyno, which is something we'd love to do.

[@bonzobanana1]

@@MBRmagazine That would be brilliant if you could work towards doing that but of course its costly and youtube earnings are not always that great. Is it Area 13 in the USA that has full tests on ebikes power. Really useful information but of course not the ebikes sold here.

[@MBRmagazine]

We'll look into it. There are a couple of options we know about to explore.

[@Govermentsound]

With all the major motor players, DJI has got to prove itself in the real world, I'd say maybe 18 months to two years before we see anything, & by then the major players would've moved significantly further ahead 🙂

[@tooxtalivai0690]

If they're cost effective they'll sell.......aaaaaannd by the conversation might be better off just getting a Surron

[@godlike0630]

With this much torque, will be ripping through chainrings, cassetes and chains non stop.. Need belt drive.

[@MBRmagazine]

It’s a good point, and drivetrain durability is something both big brands are working on. Belt drives are not without their own issues though.

[@DuBstep115]

Lol, my motorcycle has 200hp and I can clutche dump it. E-bikes just need motorcycle chains and casettes

[@amandavanstralen4720]

Better wait until chips are coming for the new motors ⚡️🚀

[@siriosstar4789]

Sorry but the "game changers " already occurred almost a decade ago with the TQ and Sachs motors ., The hyperbolic claims that the DJI is the fastest motor on the market is simply unproven under all conditions in fact i'll bet the Sachs could destroy the DJI on a one or two km hill climb ., the sachs can run its 112 Nm at low RPMS ( 40to 60 ) without overheating as fast as the DJI which openly admits that their turbo mode can only handle 30 seconds before overheating . The hype around the DJI is because of their rep in the drone business and they are aggressively marketing the bike by supplying reviewers with bikes they can test . this takes a lot of money and organization , something wasn't available for the Sachs ., BTY , the sachs motor was the first attempt by ZF to enter the e bike market . they were partners in its development , so really this latest venture is not their first motor . it's the first motor for them without a partner .

[@cyclopath1000]

so i have two e-bikes. full power shimano e8000 on a commencal meta power and a fuel exe tq motor paired with the axs drivetrain. yes you gotta work to get the tq motor to deal with up the steeps. yes its a challenge. that’s what i want. i’m riding most everything in norcal and sedona and i love it. maybe in a few years i’ll need that 110 NM. Im 73 now.

[@jpravetz]

Some people are lazier and just want to ride downhills. Bay Area trails can be done with an SL-level bike. Even over by Alum Rock and Mission Peak. I'd have one too if I were still living there. Where I live there is so much really steep shit that I really appreciate the extra power of a full motor. And also it means the bike can double as a lazy day transport bike (turbo mode). No comment on your age. You're' still a youngster so long as you ride :-) .

[@rivercityrambler7751]

Well, if it exceeds 250 watts it will not meet the designation of class 1 which will for the most part here in the US deep 6 the bike from being allowed on the majority of mtb trails here in the US. So yeah. My 85watt Bosch is fine and time tested.

[@MBRmagazine]

All of the main ebike motors exceed 250w for peak power.

[@rivercityrambler7751]

​​​Well, bikes are classified and rated for nominal power not peak so your point made is pointless. It exceeds class 1 specs(250watt nominal) so it won't be allowed on the majority of mtb/class1 only trails here in the US. It even exceeds the 750 watt limit for fkatter long trails here like the GAP trail whichbis a pea gravel road that passes from Pennsylvania to Washington DC. Well done.​

[@rivercityrambler7751]

@@MBRmagazine last I checked bikes are rated on nominal not peak power. So you will not be able to use any mtb trails here in the states for instance because the bike exceeds class 1. Well done.

[@MBRmagazine]

Oh and your Bosch motor has 600w peak power. If you have the Kiox display, it will even show you this while you’re riding.

[@rivercityrambler7751]

@@MBRmagazine and it is rated at 250 watt class 1. Motors are rated on nominal power not peak. This is well known in the imdustry. I would think if you guys were bike experts you would know this akd know how foolish trying to drive a peak argument is. I am not even sure why you are arguing or trying to push the peak power as it has zero to do with how a motor is rated and how it gets classified.

[@MartinLundström-l4v]

Systems....gone cost a ton of money... Senors customized and cost a ton as a spare part... If you can afford uppkeep ok. If not ...skip-it...

[@bobjohnson7207]

What we need is a high quality Chinese brand building these bikes. Like the Japanese motor bikes were in the1970's dethroning the Euro trash of the day.

[@LarryRichelli]

Now it will be a year before one will be able to buy bikes with these motors. I can tell you from experience, I have a 23kg, Carbon emtb that has a Bafang 600 motor with a 2000 watt controller. Sure I can spin the tires going up steep hills, but I can direct that power to my liking so this is not a problem. Luna Cycles sells the X2 bike in California so no shipping to Europe where the ebike power laws are archaic

[@Shibby13499431]

Wow. Couldn’t even watch it. Shut your yap and let the guy talk. The addition input was barely valuable and constantly interrupting.

[@101wilku101]

Not interested. Neither less going to buy popcorn and see how they fight in unknown grounds.

[@Yelbomsirhc1]

Light weight vs longer range. Why not design a frame that can take two batteries? Put in one for shorter rides for a lighter bike, slap both in when you want to go on a longer ride.

[@MBRmagazine]

Good idea but it’s not quite as simple as that. Each battery needs its own connection and cabling to the motor. But there are quite a few bikes that can run different size batteries. Smaller for shorter rides or lighter weight, bigger for longer rides. And they just slot straight in thanks to extender blocks bolted to the end of the casing to keep the physical external dimensions the same.

[@john_enx]

Batteries are like d1(ks, everyone wants/prefer a bigger one!

[@megane230f1]

I have a 378wh battery and its more than i need

[@James-cs3hp]

I can't understand why these companies have not introduced a charging build into the drive system... even Elon musk didn't do it with his cars...

[@ssjj9584]

Mountain bike brands sell out the spot for E bike sales. This is expected for non mountain bike brands to jump in for the pie. Battle of e power between brands is expected also to to scratch the itch of “more power to make you a better mountain biker.” E market easy to sell you the dream of power and updates year to year Much more tech to sell you updates on E bikes than analog year to year which is why it’s changing to a motor sport. I won’t feel sorry for MTB brands losing sales to brands like DJI. Made your bed by selling out the MTB sport for motors now you have to lay in it against non MTB brands.

[@tamasvarga67]

‘Selling out’ means selling products that have demand

[@_petar]

I do not get it, if you want power get a dirt bike, this ebike trend is absolute scam, I had a bafang motor it eats aluminium drivetrain parts worth thousands in days and well they cost the same as brand new car, please stop already!

[@link6032]

DJI made good headlines but the real question is, does anyone need more torque than 85, does anyone really spend all rides in Turbo and actually think it needs more power !?, the use case of someone who rides all the time in turbo and wants more power has to be sooooo small. And that even being case is likely a burly downhill type build and the lightweight build of the DJI bike being shown is trail/XC, build a like for like and it's no lighter. Also these motors will never take off unless big brand manufactures spec them. The DJI motor unit is only 0.05kg lighter than the EP801, build a like for like bike and the only differentiator is the battery, not the motor, not to mention after sales support etc. DJI have rhe deadlines but in the real world..... 🤔🤷🏻

[@MBRmagazine]

All very good points. The proof of the pudding, as always, will be in the eating. We’re due to get one to test soon, and will be keen to find out.

[@link6032]

@@MBRmagazine that will be a great video, really interesting so see if that extra power is even needed in the real world, most people ride single track - does it make the ride better in anyway etc.

[@MBRmagazine]

Definitely a lot of question marks that need answering!

[@JasonNosajasoNosaj]

MBR thinks otherwise 9:00

[@AndreasJacobson]

I''m in turbo on my EP8 99% of the time, the last 1 percent is if I think I might run out of battery on the way to the car. So yes. I bike for decending and the faster I get to the top the better

[@rivercityrambler7751]

Since I can't respond to the response I received from those who run this feed I will do so here. In response to "all bikes making over 250 watts peak." Last I checked bikes are rated by nominal power so your point is laughable. It exceeds class1 250 watt nominal power. Here in the US for instance if you want to share mtb trails you cannot exceed class 1. This bike is 800-850 watts? Yeah.

[@MBRmagazine]

Check out the likes of the Specialized Turbo Levo, Trek Rail, Santa Cruz Heckler etc, etc. They all have around 500-600w. The motors are also all rated at 250w nominal continuous power, which is the number that makes them legal.

[@rivercityrambler7751]

@@MBRmagazine do you understand the difference between peak and nominal power? Apparently not. Peak power has absolutely NOTHING to do with how a bike is classified. It is based on nominal power. Its a stupid argument you are trying to drive. Just stop

[@MBRmagazine]

The rules are different here in Europe and the UK. You’re right, the DJI would exceed the US class 1 classification. Not being from the US we didn’t ask DJI what it plans to do about that, but it would be fairly easy to limit power to 750w and pass the regulations.

[@seanshaw8321]

rivercityrant

[@rivercityrambler7751]

You can't simply dial it down. There is more to it than that. I was looking at a beater bike to ride around the neighborhood. Well the bike I was looking at was a 1000 watt class 2 with a throttle and a mid drive. I was told due to power outputs even though the bike ships as a class 2 setting wise the 1000watt is what pushes it to a realm where it is consodered a moped due to power and would require registration as well as insurance to be on the road. If you get caught operating the bike without said insurance and registration you could be charged for operating and unlawful vehicle on a public roadway, your bike could be impounded and your license suspended. I canned the order e​@@MBRmagazine

[@dusanmal]

Ok, ok, ok... Someone needs to call stop to this madness. How many people in general population can output bursts of 1000+W? How many 800+W over prolonged time? Sorry, but these are not e-bikes but e-motorcycles. Fine, buy them, enjoy them, register them, get insurance and drivers license. Don't come to bike trails, paths, anywhere reserved for BICYCLES powered on average by 100W, if so humans. Yes, there are athletes who can do prolonged 500+W but even for prolonged 200W you need a well trained person. Stop stealing the name. Speak of these as for what they are: MOTORCYCLES.

[@ricusmate]

My $600 motor puts out 4Kw and 90Nm and weighs 4kg. There is a Goldilocks point between overpriced eMTBs and Surrons that is not being catered to.

[@aintnobodygottime4dat]

E-Bikes 🤮