Have I Been WRONG About The Legend of Zelda Series? - My Retro Life

[@MyRetroLife]

Use my code RETROLIFE to get $5 off your delicious, high protein Magic Spoon cereal by clicking this link: sponsr.is/magicspoon_retrolife

[@yungalucard9139]

I think kingdom hearts is more close to being a conventional rpg where u level up than Zelda. And it has elements of exploration and adventure games too.

[@AndSaveAsManyAsYouCan]

Zelda 2 for the NES, the best Zelda, is probably the closest to an rpg.

[@CockLord2059]

Hey What was the music that you chose as background in this video at 5:14

[@deraykrause4517]

Pac-Man is an action adventure survival horror game.

[@MyRetroLife]

Not wrong!

[@Choom2077]

LOL

[@Aero_Skies]

Terminalmontage may convince me of that

[@Giggles_iJest]

I mean yeah, technically

[@VampireA1056]

Ghosts are scary

[@johnsgamingandmore1237]

You can call it an RPG or not but we can all agree the The Legend of Zelda series is a great series

[@Shinobi15]

But it’s not rpg except for new breath series

[@WeSRT4]

@@Shinobi15 No, it's RPG. There are subtypes of RPGs.

[@Shinobi15]

@@WeSRT4 nope

[@AgentLazarus]

​@@Shinobi15 its an RPG moron.

[@chrispember172]

@@Shinobi15 and mario kart isn't a racing game /s

[@adroharv5140]

Snes Zelda Past remains one of the finest accomplishments of our time. The game is exceptionally crafted

[@kytch111]

Zelda is just Zelda. Does not matter what type of game it is. It is our childhood and will always be one of our favs.

[@TheMalitz17]

These just get better and better. Love it man. It's an artform what you do with the material and you're a natural at this. Well done brotha and thank you

[@MyRetroLife]

Thanks a ton! Appreciate it

[@loco_Fox]

I mean it's a fun discussion but in the end of the day does it matter how we label it? It's a classic , that's all that matters

[@JYGamingGuys]

When you said that you might upset us I legit thought you were gonna talk about how you didn’t like Zelda and turned out to like it in the end further supported by the title lol

[@jw3st0n]

I had a friend in 2nd grade that called my Sega Genesis a Nintendo. He insisted that even a PlayStation was a Nintendo. I think you would get along with him well

[@jasonleveck8546]

Haha!

[@colinDESU]

Some people are mad that he brought out the RECEIPTS with his stance. Miyamoto himself said it. It said on the Japanese box 3Dアクションrpg (action rpg). To deny Zelda of any RPG status at all is silly, and often probably due to the fact that somebody doesn’t like it, and doesn’t want it grouped in with beloved FF’s or dragon quests.

[@jw3st0n]

@@colinDESU His recipes are wrong. Zelda boxes don't have a great track record of containing accurate information. The original Majora's Mask box says that it's a 4 player game and includes an illustration of 4 controllers. Miyamoto has said many times that Zelda is *not* an RPG and that he doesn't like them

[@colinDESU]

@@jw3st0n show me the receipts for Miyamoto saying that and I’ll apologize.

[@jw3st0n]

@@colinDESU Go to Shigeru Miyamoto's wikipedia page and look at the last paragraph under Development philosophy. It's just before the "Impact" subheading. Wikipedia includes several references including a link to a September 14th 2003, Nintendo Official Magazine (UK) where Miyamoto says " I personally have a fundamental dislike of the RPG system" and tells why. I'll post some links, but they may not show up

[@JRPGLife]

I'm very intrigued by this entire conversation. I think it's important to consider time in this argument. Back in the 90s, the definition of RPG was so vague that one could consider a fighting game role-playing because you assume the role of a character. As time has progressed, RPGs have become more polarizing due to some gamers vehemently "not liking RPGs." Nowadays, there have been more features added to RPGs to help them stand apart so their audience can be more clearly defined. Looking through the lens of anyone in 1992: almost everything is an RPG. There just weren't enough variety of gameplay options yet to clearly build a wall between them and others. In modern times, Zelda just doesn't have enough defining qualities to be called an RPG. This is also why it's no longer listed on game boxes; they left that genre in the 90s.

[@vacantseaofplanets]

Most games have features taken from RPGs and that doesn't make it an RPG, it has RPG elements

[@MyRetroLife]

Am I crazy thinking Zelda is an RPG? What do you think? Thanks for watching guys.

[@ohiograssman1564]

We’re all pretty much bat dung looney toons 😂

[@MrTheebs]

I would say it's an action adventure game, but in the end nobody can prevent you from identifying as Link while playing it. In that sense I guess it's an "RP-able-game. Do I make sense?

[@AndSaveAsManyAsYouCan]

Zelda 2 for the NES, the best Zelda, is the closest to an rpg. The experience / leveling up of attack, life (defense), and magic (point usage) are definitely rpg features. It has magic use kind of like an rpg. It lacks the acquisition of better equipment though.

[@leecroft7311]

I have never seen Zelda series as an rpg, always thought of the franchise as an action adventure series.

[@videostash413]

not crazy, just sloppy

[@darrenparry3188]

To me a RPG game consists of an open world, in which you can freely explore talking to people, upgrading your gear, getting stronger throughout the adventure. With Zelda, there isn't in depth stats, your attack, defence isn't determined by numbers and it's simplified, you'll get heart upgrades, magic upgrades and other gear which helps explore the world, but weapons and armour upgrades are usually quite small in comparison to other RPG games. As far as RPG games go, Zelda is definitely a RPG game, but emphasises on being a more action, simplified one. No convoluted stats to track. In my opinion, a full on RPG game is more akin to the dungeon and dragons tabletop game. Stats and numbers everywhere! But both types of RPG, action and traditional share that one major thing, you're playing a ROLE, you decide where you go, who you talk to, how you decide what to do next. They both share that, it's just Zelda does it in a way that's more action than strategy and not so complicated with spending half your time in a menu trying to manage equipment...

[@vacantseaofplanets]

Yeah there's no fuckin numbers in Zelda. And there's no "chance to miss/chance to hit". Having an element or two taken from RPGs doesn't make the game an RPG. It makes it action-adventure with minor RPG elements. Most games have similar features and we don't call everything an RPG just because you can use an item or change your weapon

[@shtface9637]

It's an RPG. End of story.

[@leozar69]

To me, an RPG, is a game where the player role plays as he main character. Goes on an adventure, meet interesting characters, fight things, save someone in distress, explore.

[@pokekiller787x]

Zelda was inspired by Rpgs and at the time the idea of what an rpg was was very flimsy. And so it was called one. But nowadays, now that it's very clear what elements an RPG actually contains Zelda is an action adventure title. Regardless of what you call it, it's still incredible.

[@Krissspy-_-]

Exactly how i feel about it couldn’t have said it better myself in my opinion Zelda is not a traditional RPG it has elements of the genre but it has always focused on exploration, puzzles, and combat not leveling up customization of your character or party members i feel as if it’s a action adventure game

[@reuterss306]

Zelda: A Link to the Past holds a special place in my heart. I just bought my SNES with my own money, which was pretty hard at that age. Every game I got counted, because I would only get one on christmas or my birthday, or what I bought from my own money. Zelda was SO much fun. I remember after I finished it giving it to my buddy next door and then watching him play it. Just because I enjoyed it that much so even just seeing him experiencing the game the first tame felt SO wholesome. Seeing the game, hearing the music...the feeling that recreates can be oberwhelming. Just remembering those times, when we had not much to worry about and so much time to spend with our family and friends. And how grateful I am for that.

[@james441]

My fav game

[@jayesun3420]

Zelda's are overhead action adventure games that have role playing elements,crept for Zelda 2 is a side scrolling action adventure game with role playing elements. Great episode Tyler, oh yeah, I just learned that you're Grandfather was an incredible comic book artist, whom I followed as a youngster and that fact blew my mind. Big fan and of yours as well, keep on killing it bro, and thanks 😅

[@BlackMoore82]

Good time to bring up Dragon Quest (Warrior). Today would have been film, television, & video game composer Koichi Sugiyama's birthday. Sugiyama-San worked on The 1st eleven Dragon Quest games (1986-2017).. and E.V.O.: Search for Eden (1992).

[@tarantinoish]

I remember playing E.V.O. I thought it was a lot of fun.

[@danielcarboni3576]

I’ve never considered it an RPG. It’s always been an action-adventure RPG. I think that’s how the old magazines used to describe it.

[@ShawnFerrell]

The creator of The Legend of Zelda referred to Link as Zelda in that article you show around the seven minute mark. Something to the effect of, "We changed the graphics. So we had to change the way Zelda swings his sword." Was he not Link in the OG Zelda game? Now my head is spinning.

[@dragoneater6771]

You play the role of Link in a game. A very simple equation. And because it takes place in a fantasy setting, that helps too.

[@jwise209]

Based Zelda fan: "Sure, it's an rpg" Beta fan confronted with logic: "To each their own." "Can't we just agree Zelda is awesome?'' "Nope, not an rpg"

[@cd5sircoupe]

The Zelda games never met that criteria of an RPG for me. I acknowledge that it is considered an action RPG franchise of course, but RPG to me always meant turn based, levels, etc. There's nothing wrong with ARPGs, I love em, but I have two distinct categories in my head canon. Strategy RPGs are a whole different category, I love me some Final Fantasy Tactics, Front Mission, Vandal Hearts, etc. As far as Castlevania goes, I wouldn't consider any of them to fit the mold of RPG, though starting with SotN's direction they were definitely closer. I think it's fair to say platformer with RPG elements there.

[@KnowToChill]

Zelda is an Action Adventure ...the only "RPG" Element there is you get some Loot😂

[@GambitGodsey187-ku3wz]

@@KnowToChill saying Zelda isn't a RPG is like saying 7th saga isn't a RPG.

[@NesSumSimpson]

It was not a RPG to me growing up. Everything has elements of something else but what is at the core. At its core, Zelda is an action adventure. I need to have some in depth character building for it to be an RPG. I feel like when you call Zelda an RPG, you are trying to get off on a technicality. I love this channel, even when you are wrong, lol. I look forward to your next video!

[@StevenMighty]

Perhaps the real question is: IS there a specific name to categorize Zelda games under? I don't think so. Miyamoto is such a genius, inspired by so many things, that he was able to create a genre on its own with Zelda.

[@vacantseaofplanets]

Having an element or two taken from RPGs doesn't make the game an RPG. It makes it action-adventure with minor RPG elements. Most games have similar features and we don't call everything an RPG just because you can use an item or change your weapon

[@glenneclipsegsx]

I 100% agree with you on your take. Zelda games have rpg elements through story and NPCs and leveling up not just through heart containers, but in the original and link to the past you have rings and mail, plus sword upgrades. What happened was KZbinrs came out with their own opinions on things and that became gospel.

[@SirWiggy12]

14:54 That finale music from ALTTP gets me every time 🥹 takes me back to my tiny bedroom with the 9" tv on the dresser that i had to use a fork to turn on cuz the power switch was broken off.

[@jestahjava4255]

When I think of RPG, I think of the modern interpretation of it - level up, stats, skill trees, etc. But I completely agree with your take. Assuming the role of a character where you have some autonomy in developing them is the core of a “role playing” game. It doesn’t have to be a custom character, you don’t need experience points, or dialogue trees. These are just popular mechanics. Zelda is an action RPG!

[@bobbypaycheque]

I think there are more for points of Zelda being an RPG most of the time than not. MOST of the entries at least. 1) You name your character at the beginning 2) You increase health and mana through playing and conquering dungeons 3) can acquire and upgrade and switch out weapons and shields, equipment like boots and armor 4) gaining new abilities and equipment and upgrading them 5) boss levels often require a certain level, abilities and/or equipment

[@Goaheadandstaymad21332]

Upgrading your health and mana aren't necessarily an RPG thing within the context of the game. You level those things up by collecting certain requirements, whereas in an RPG those are stats that are usually increased through levelling your character. Completing the dungeon for example is always the requirement. Though in an RPG you have many options to level yourself up. Whether it's killing enemies, completing a dungeon, finishing a quest or exploration.

[@EQOAnostalgia]

Zelda and Dragon Warrior were my firsts as well. So great!

[@hipnotyq]

Its personal for everyone but to me, a rpg has to have some sort of active experience system. You need to be able to level up skills and see a tangible difference with that leveling. Zelda is an action adventure game for me because it has progression based advancement. It's more like Metroid where you get to a point in the game and get an item/ability to let you get to the next. It's not like links attack power gets any stronger, he just acquires different swords. So thats how I look at it, you need to have some sort of experience system where each kill means something, which is why its more action adventure, again like Metroid. If Zelda is a RPG, Metroid is too.

[@bobbypaycheque]

You technically through the experience of playing the game upgrade your hearts and mana. In most of them any way.

[@AndSaveAsManyAsYouCan]

Zelda 2, the best Zelda, actually does have an experience / level building system. Your attack gets stronger, your life bar takes less damage, and your magic spells use less magic when casting as you level them up.

[@Thumbstickgamer]

Its action adventure. RPG's have levelling and stats.

[@mariokart8715]

Your dad liked to put the game cartridges in plastic rental style cases and he modified the box artwork to fit in them. It’s hard to put them back in the cardboard boxes after taking them out.

[@Dec4AllTimeAlways]

Favorite Final Fantasy Games I’ve Beaten 1. VII 2. VII Remake 3. X 4. Tactics 5. VI 6. VIII 7. IX 8. IV 9. V Favorite Final Fantasy Characters 1. Cloud (7) 2. Tifa (7R) 3. Auron (10) 4. Sephiroth (7) 5. Vivi (9) 6. Yuna (10) 7. Lulu (10) 8. Cid (7) 9. Yuffie (7R) 10. Aerith (7R) 11. Barret (7) 12. Red XIII (7) 13. Jessie (7R) 14. Sonon (7R) 15. Biggs (7R) 16. Steiner (9) 17. Zidane (9) 18. Wakka (10)

[@supergirlkels]

as a NEW Zelda fan who started to only play zelda with a link between worlds, I also though ti twas more of a adventure / puzzle game. kind of like Tomb Raider! I never thought about it as a RPG because of the lack of "level" up system. but when I listened to this video, and the way that players are leveling up through the items , gear, and tools they equip themselves with is actually... VERY RPG..... even the "layout" of the game. especially when you're playing from Overhead camera view it really comes off as that "RPG" graphical invitation. You sold me. looking at it, even in Tears of the kingdom, an open world exerience...... it has much RPG elements. its to me, a mixed genre, and I think thats what makes ZELDA SO special. no one can replicate it, its why its so hard to define it.

[@JessP1]

In my 90's mind, I would describe it as a story based adventure game. The games that were text and menu heavy I considered RPG's at that time.

[@evenoddprime]

If you had friends over and they asked "Do you have any fruit to snack on?" and you handed them a tomato they would just laugh. A tomato is scientifically a fruit but is culinarily used as a vegetable. Zelda is a tomato. I would be surprised in the same way some I asked what your favorite RPGs are and your first answer is Zelda.

[@CakesTv1337]

I'm going to throw a wrench in this for fun. RPG stands for Role Playing Game, in every game you technically are playing the role of that character, so with that being said; every game is an RPG.

[@mwatkins0590]

I think the definition of RPG has changed as games have grown in number and diversity. I think back in the day, having a game with a lot of words which you read to get a grasp of the story as a main aspect of the draw is what really gave it the RPG label. Over time the "RPG" titles really broke into different groups based on the gameplay more than the experience. If someone says to me "RPG", they are talking about a turn-based (maybe with some time elements sometimes) battle system where you select your moves from a list, with a specific battle mode and exploring mode. So Dragon Warrior is about as RPG as RPGs can get, but also basically every final fantasy game. Games like castlevania, metroid, and zelda games I would not consider RPGs, although there is a hint of it in them.

[@cinnamondan4984]

I work in Shanghai. A British colleague told me about Magic Spoon so I imported it for an ungodly amount of money. It was worth it.

[@inceptional]

I have always thought of the Zelda games as RPGs, because that's what we called them back in the day. So often these days do I see modern gamers or whomever try to dictate some new take on whatever thing we've all known for decades that they are now trying to force everyone to think of otherwise, and they somehow think they know better, when they just don't. I'm not a fan of their rewriting of or revisionist history at all. And, yup, SotN is an action platformer; it's definitely not an RPG. Just as shoot 'em up or "shump" does not mean any old game where you shoot things either. It almost always means scrolling shooters where you fly something around the screen while blasting away at things, like classic Gradius, R-Type, Super Aleste, U.N. Quadron, etc. Smash TV and Xeno Crisis (welcome to the recently released SNES version), for example, are not shmups. Those are something else, like twin stick shooters or Robotron clones. And run 'n' gun games like Contra, Gunstar Heroes and Cuphead are not shmups; they're run 'n' gun games. House of the Dead and Time Crisis are not shmups as the Wikipedia "shoot 'em up" page might have you believe; they're arcade-style [light]gun games. It's also kinda like how Apple's marketing team brainwashed everyone into saying x amount "thin", so everyone knows just how thin their devices are, when the phrase is correctly said as x amount thick (regardless of how amazingly thin it is). And it's not "addicting"; it's addictive: This game is so dang addictive that I just can't put it down. And so on. Okay. My rant is over. But, you get me. Just don't let "teh Internet" dictate the new "facts" to you and you should be good. :D

[@oggamer735]

AAMEN! 100%

[@KFXG]

Damn straight.

[@vacantseaofplanets]

Having an element or two taken from RPGs doesn't make the game an RPG. It makes it action-adventure with minor RPG elements. Most games have similar features and we don't call everything an RPG just because you can use an item or change your weapon

[@inceptional]

@@vacantseaofplanetsDoesn't change my point.

[@PolecatsRock]

I have always considered Zelda an RPG. You get the chance to expand your characters stats through exploration and equipment. Not all stats are required but there is still a grind if you want max load. Just because there aren't stats involved to me doesn't make it inherently not an RPG. As long as the game gives you the choice to buff yourself or just get through it at bare minimum meets my requirements of an RPG type game. I remember debating this with friends in the 90's, some of them thought an RPG had to be turned based with numbers but I thought all of that was semantics when the real RPG aesthetic was get through the game while increasing your characters power to the point where you feel you are ready to complete the mission as long as the point A and B allowed.

[@JamesChessman]

This is kind of a never ending debate. Back then, Nintendo Power explained that Zelda is action-adventure, or maybe action-RPG, but it’s not exactly traditional RPG’s, which usually have more text, and experience points, etc. I think there is a meaningful difference, regardless the terminology.

[@JamesChessman]

Phantasy Star IV is my favorite traditional JRPG. Xp points, a changing group of characters, tons of text, space travel etc. You save a whole solar system! Then I play Zelda: Ocarina and it’s really just one solitary character, watching the rain in the graveyard

[@colloquialprism]

This is honestly one of the biggest questions or debates in gaming. In my mind I know it is an action RPG but I don’t really “feel” like it is, because I associate the genre with Final Fantasy, DnD etc. Zelda is just so puzzle heavy I think that sets it apart from even other action RPGs.

[@juststatedtheobvious9633]

Brain Lord, Tunic, and Alundra would like a word.

[@PellaeonEU]

Zelda has no complex stat system to really play a role, but uses few improvements in the form of items and weapons. But that's true for 90% of video games. A Gta with the Missions for different people (like quests) and possibilities to choose what to do with consequences and better stats by doing side quests would have even more of an rpg than Zelda. And even games with very similar elements as zelda like MediEvil are called action adventure, cause there is no real chance to play a role without complex stats to make it Immersive and highly impressionable. Therefore, Zelda should actually be classified as an action adventure with real-time RPG elements.

[@fossil-bit8439]

Might just be a generational thing. I’m an older millennial “Xennial” and Zelda was ALWAYS considered an RPG; at least where I grew up. Kinda like how Shmups (terrible name) used to be called Shooters and now First Person Shooters are just called Shooters by younger gamers instead of an FPS.

[@striderskorpion]

I used to consider it an RPG before I knew much about the genre. Aside from Zelda 2, I think it's on the borderline of the action adventure and action RPG genres.

[@koalaschola81]

Per Wiki: "The Legend of Zelda[a] is an action-adventure game franchise created by the Japanese game designers Shigeru Miyamoto and Takashi Tezuka...The gameplay incorporates action-adventure and elements of action RPG games." Other than "Zelda II: The Adventure of Link"; to my knowledge, all other games in the franchise are listed as "action adventure" titles on GameFAQS as well.

[@matthewmartin4394]

A Link to The Past is, IMO, the greatest action/rpg of the 16 bit era.

[@bnthewilderness]

Agreed with Francis; all of those games are RPG’s. They all fall into their own sub genre of RPG depending what they lean more forwards. Zelda is absolutely a RPG game and always has been.

[@robzo87]

I consider The Legend of Zelda an RPG. Also it’s nice to see this new video pop up from you today, Tyler. Me and many of your Patreons are always looking forward to the new content.

[@MyRetroLife]

Appreciate y’all so much! Thanks for the support

[@joshbrucks]

RPGs especially from the 80s 90s were table top games in video game form. Table top games were called RPGs. So the video game version is also an rpg. Zelda IS NOT an rpg. There's more to genre than the literal definition of the words. Every game is not an rpg

[@robzo87]

@@joshbrucks can we at least agree that there are some elements to an RPG in the Zelda genre?

[@10104tbone]

@@joshbruckswell Mr. Miyamoto would beg to differ.

[@vacantseaofplanets]

I consider my band to be a country music band, however most people seem to think we play death metal

[@crobinson2624]

Zelda isn’t a role playing game. In some games it shares elements of RGPs in some games but it’s mostly an action adventure game.

[@fazares]

exactly

[@erockbrox8484]

The reason why so many people have "beef" with Zelda is because its a big franchise. Like its BIG. So people are going to say things. If it were a smaller or lesser known game, nobody would even be talking about it.

[@Mobik_]

Yep! Ocarina of Time says "3D "アクション" (Action) RPG". I knew that since I was a kid that Zelda is not like a turn based RPG, but still an RPG.

[@Iron-Van]

I've always thought of them as action RPGs as well. They were my gateway to jrpgs

[@nSquared75]

It’s me again. The Zelda series was always more of an action RPG in comparison to the Japanese turn based stuff. Despite Zelda 2, which added world map interactions, the powers/abilities were set to complete the game. True RPG’s allowed for the character to beat the game no matter if you chose physical or magical prowess. The Zelda series was much more linear in that aspect. When you look at games, especially like Dragon Warrior or Final Fantasy, it’s definitely more apparent. This isn’t taking into affect the world map interaction vs the local interaction.

[@dantheman683]

80s kid here. I never played Legend of Zelda games as a kid until 'A Link To The Past' on SNES. My introduction to 'RPGs' was Ironsword: Wizards & Warriors II. The story, the music, the graphics.... it just checked all the boxes for my tiny lil' heart. Questing & platforming through caves, dungeons, waterfalls and chasms to find golden items for giant animal kings is the stuff that gets my gaming motor running. I'm diagnosed with ADHD, so faster-paced games that don't require long stretches of focus and "grinding" will keep me from being alienated. Clearly, somebody at Rare Coin-It thought the same thing when they made the W&W series for the NES. Put simply: Art -whether it's a video game or not- of ANY sort is without bounderies. It's best expressed when painted outside the lines. We use the term "RPG" so magazines and retailers can properly categorize it. We the consumers take the term that much further with our passion and dedication. Nothing more.

[@georged7627]

Each to their own i say 🙏🏽its got action its got adventure and also RPG elements so Zelda is what the player calls it

[@cpl.barbarusc4814]

In a way, Legend of Zelda is an RPG, yet It wasn't exactly as traditional as Final Fantasy in terms of gameplay and progress, It has the elements of adventure and the story talking place on a medieval setting. If It wasn't for Legend of Zelda, what would have been of the Darksiders game series and many other games.

[@pokekiller787x]

A medieval setting doesn't inherently make something an rpg

[@cpl.barbarusc4814]

@@pokekiller787x yeah, true but at the time, It was the most common atmosphere an RPG and thier respective clones (Final Fantasy or Zelda clones). I don't remember of there was a futuristic RPG on the 80's, the only ones that I remember talking place on a futuristic Sci -Fi or maybe Steampunk setting were Chrono Trigger and Shadowrun. But if you happen to know one from the 80s I would like to know, I'm helping on a game Review channel and another suggestion of a game to review would be great.

[@pokekiller787x]

@cpl.barbarusc4814 It's very true that the setting is extremely common in RPGs. There is an RPG called Lagrange Point for the Famicom, but if you don't speak Japanese, it requires an English patch to play. That wasn't the 80s, though. It was in 91.

[@cpl.barbarusc4814]

@@pokekiller787x Lagrange Point huh? I'm a sucker of japanese Sci-Fi so I could give this a go, and hopefully with patch or at least on an emulator, just to take a looksy.

[@OutrunCitizen]

A Japanese Role Playing game is a game that that uses stats to simulate combat, like the games that inspired the genre, Wizardry and Ultima (Not D&D,) . Zelda is an Action Adventure game

[@chaosqrow634]

What Tyler doesn't explain to you is even with his promo code is that you're still paying for basically the crap as Apple Jacks or whatever and it's not even that much better health wise. It's almost $10 a box without his Promo Code and you find these cereals in Walmart

[@MacGuffinExMachina]

This reminds me of conversations about punk and its subgenre. You get some people gatekeeping rhe ahit about it, and defining it in narrow terms, some allowing for a lot of wiggle room, and of course, people who really don't give a shit and just enjoy it.

[@MacGuffinExMachina]

*subgenres plural God, I wish I could edot my commentam I'm bad with typos.

[@Rob-rx3jw]

I also think people mix up the terms of RPG and Turn-based games (ie. Final Fantasy). However Zelda series is the OG Action-Adventure

[@shortbus1127]

River City Ransom is the greatest RPG ever🔥

[@joeyboyjoeyboy2]

nope, nba 2k11 is.

[@AndSaveAsManyAsYouCan]

Your both wrong... Pong is clearly the best rpg.

[@nostalgiajunkieakaetherethi677]

River city ransom is a beat em up RPG not an RPG sheesh

[@vacantseaofplanets]

Super Mario Brothers 3 is dude you have an item inventory and shit so

[@thaidenthach9806]

@2:46 thats $1k worth of nes games. Your dad was a baller.

[@brentkainer1741]

In Germany we have a word that nitpicky behaviour. It's called "Wortklauberei"

[@LotoTheHero]

I never really know where to put Zelda. To me, JRPGs were my first introduction to RPGs and what I largely considered RPGs for a long time. I realized as I got older it's a bit wider of a genre than that. They call some things RPGs these days that really aren't. Back to Zelda... at the end of the day I don't really care where people choose to place it when they describe it. I love the series regardless.

[@jackaler5973]

If the term RPG is broad enough to include Zelda (or any game, as you mentioned), then why is it an important that we recognize Zelda as an RPG? There has to be *something* distinctive about an RPG from your perspective, otherwise you wouldn't bother laboring to defend Zelda as an RPG. Genres should be distinctive. The more broadly genre-terms are used, the less meaningful they become. Can we also call Zelda a shoot-em-up? You do shoot arrows after all. -- Sorry for the long comments. No disrespect. Love your videos.

[@Kosmicd12]

Thanks for sharing! I didn't know about this generational gap, haha. I heard you call it an rpg previously and thought that was odd, but after what you shared here, you're totally right. I think these days, rpg has basically come to mean gaining experience points. At the end of day, gotta remember that classifying games is only useful to describe a game to someone that's not familiar with it, and that's pretty much it. For Zelda I'd definitely say words like adventure, puzzle solving, action etc. all before rpg. But those elements are undeniably there, especially for zelda II obviously. Speaking of which, castlevania II is so similar- I'm surprised you couldn't think of any castlevania games as rpg's. I actually feel like the modern ones have more rpg elements than zelda does, picking all the different equips and leveling up.

[@vacantseaofplanets]

Nah we were dumb as shit as kids; you should have heard the things people used to argue about before we had the internet to look it up. Having an element or two taken from RPGs doesn't make the game an RPG. It makes it action-adventure with minor RPG elements. Most games have similar features and we don't call everything an RPG just because you can use an item or change your weapon

[@jackaler5973]

Saying that a game has "RPG elements" assumes that there is something distinctive about an RPG, which sets it apart from other video games. We can't call every game an RPG, just because it's a game where you "play a role" (as one does in every game). Using the term in such a broad fashion gives it far less meaning.

[@ogsegasteve9430]

Jeez Tyler...didnt have a wasp nest to swat at today? couldnt find a puppy to kick on camera? Is Legend of Zelda an RPG? something something 10 ft pole...something something 3rd rail. LOL. I hope this goes super viral for ya Brother because the subject should bring out the feels and the trolls.

[@starwind1985]

I think of them as action adventure games because there is no leveling system, but when you get down to it, who cares? As you pointed out towards the beginning of the video, most games meet the most base-level definition of RPG, that being a game in which you take on a role. So long as the games are enjoyable, that's all that really matters.

[@richarddlee930]

I always just considered it an action adventure game growing up in the late 80s early 90s.

[@supersmallchibiwolf872]

The Legend of Zelda is not a RPG It's a JRPG and that's a funny joke to tell everyone who still thinks The Legend of Zelda is not a JRPG. I love that Shigeru Miyamoto confirms both sides. Cool video. ^_^

[@LaC64]

1:35 that kid with the realistic uzi, holy shit

[@Dad_Brad]

I had one too. It was a fairly popular toy into the late 80s.

[@plusah1268]

@@Dad_Brad overseas this is still a big thing in a majority of regions lol

[@Dad_Brad]

@@plusah1268 yeah in America now kids play with real guns.

[@videostash413]

don't stress about a toy dude

[@Dad_Brad]

@@videostash413 kid probably robbed a bank with it and lead the police on a three hour chase crashed into Trump tower and went viral

[@mariokart8715]

Did you own Wind Waker, Four Swords Adventures and Twilight Princess? They also made a collector’s edition for GameCube with all the original Zelda titles.

[@squirmlygoof]

Seeing your home videos in 60fps makes me extremely happy inside. It's just so refreshing to see!

[@MyRetroLife]

Glad you enjoy it! It’s 60 fps or bust for me haha

[@Dad_Brad]

None of my friends or I liked Zelda during the NES/SNES era. It looked like watching grass grow. Like literally a chore to do, not a game. Or playing chess. Only one kid liked it in my friend group and I have no idea why. To Zelda’s credit though - BOTW is one of my favorite games now.

[@CastilloJuega]

I think it has to be checked game by game. BOTW and TOTK have a lot of RPG elements in them. Ocarina of Time and A Link to the Past are more like action-adventure games where new areas open based on items, and you don't grow if you don't want to. Zelda II, in terms of elements, is very close to an RPG, but the combat diverges from the typical RPG definition.

[@mrfujiwara-JJ]

Based on Retina Prime's description Metroid is an RPG.

[@shsrpr]

12:48 Well, yes, it has heart containers and item upgrades that grow your character. But so does Metroid (tanks instead of hearts), and nobody calls that an RPG, then or now. And Metal Gear too, you grow your max health and rank and get better weapons and items to take on stronger enemies. Also, not thought of as an RPG series. Even if you are Playing the Role of a character in both of those Games. I think the real disconnect is that the term RPG wasn't well defined early on. And over the years it's gotten more and more strictly defined. Especially since so many modern games include "RPG Elements" in them, which usually means that there is some sort of experience points/leveling system. So we now expect that an RPG has to have some sort of experience points/leveling system in it. And Zelda does not, other than Zelda II. But speaking of Zelda II, the series does however usually have towns and people to talk to and gather information about the current dilemma, and big open worlds and dungeons to explore and a long story in a fantasy setting. Which are all further staples of the genre. So imho, with those things in addition to how the character progression happens (even if it's not experience points based), that puts it more firmly in the RPG genre.

[@patrickjones2843]

Zelda has always been officially known as an Action RPG. Everyone from the creator to video game magazines referenced that all the way back to the 90s. Hope that can help. I feel the Onus would be on those trying to say its not an Action RPG. Prove to me why its not an RPG.

[@mariokart8715]

I’ve also heard that Indiana Jones games are Tomb Raider clones, but Tomb Raider was more popular than Indiana Jones.

[@maxwellmem]

I think RPG has taken on a more specific meaning. When I think of RPG, I think of games of midlevel or ancient times that consist of deep character development, Games that utilize spells/magic/potions, games that have an in-depth leveling system/skill system that is much more than just beating a level/platform. These games also have a very rich and in-depth storyline. All of these elements make up an RPG. If a game has one or a couple of these elements, they aren't considered an RPG, but have one or more RPG elements.

[@MrTableDesk]

My definition of an RPG is based on a misunderstanding I had as a kid. I thought it was Roll Playing Game, not Role Playing Game; so to me RPGs were games where everything's based on dice rolls. To me, Zelda's kind of it's own thing, I don't personally consider it an RPG; since there's no dice rolls going on behind the scenes determining your damage and whatnot. But I totally get the argument that it's an RPG.

[@Bobby8451]

I love that NES Advantage controller. I remember my mom buying me that for like $45 if I remember correctly and this controller helped me beat my favorite game of all time, Blaster Master because of the slow motion option for the 5th stage boss, THE CRAB. LMAO

[@Blanco8x8]

The Legend of Zelda is action adventure. That's how I interpret the franchise. The combat is in real time instead of turn-based and there isn't a lot of numbers to look at. I see more similarities in Grand Theft Auto than in Final Fantasy.

[@HRPufnsting]

I’m still not clear on WHY Zelda should be considered an RPG other than a vogue concept like “getting stronger” or that other people felt it is. Like there has to be more argument for Zelda being an RPG other than its fantasy and you can “upgrade” your character

[@vacantseaofplanets]

Yeah there's no fuckin numbers in Zelda. And there's no "chance to miss/chance to hit". Having an element or two taken from RPGs doesn't make the game an RPG. It makes it action-adventure with minor RPG elements. Most games have similar features and we don't call everything an RPG just because you can use an item or change your weapon

[@kijar]

It’s an RPG. Then later on people have started to define what an RPG is and probably that’s when the confusion started.

[@MetalMightGames]

You never noticed the re-labeling of Zelda like games from Action RPG to Action Adventure? I think it happened around the time Diablo came out. Diablo was a true Action RPG because it had stats you can increase like Attack, Defense and so on. It also had character customization in the form of a skill tree where you can unlock certain abilities by spending skill points that you earn by leveling up. I just accepted it because it seemed a more specific and accurate description of game genres. I always preferred the action adventure games like Zelda, Alundra, and Monster World (Wonderboy spinoff) because I don't like the extra complication of RPG elements. These days I like games like Monster Boy and the Cursed Kingdom, and Shantae and the Seven Sirens which some call Metroidvanias, 3D Platformers (especially Spyro), and of course racing games like The Crew Motorfest, or Kart racers like Disney Speedstorm.

[@vacantseaofplanets]

Yeah there's no fuckin numbers in Zelda. And there's no "chance to miss/chance to hit". Having an element or two taken from RPGs doesn't make the game an RPG. It makes it action-adventure with minor RPG elements. Most games have similar features and we don't call everything an RPG just because you can use an item or change your weapon

[@Goaheadandstaymad21332]

I think the only Zelda game that could even be considered an RPG is the second game since you actually level different stats in that game. For pretty much every entry that I can remember though, the games are Action Adventure. An RPG needs to have a levelling system that you can invest in to form the character or play style you want.

[@vacantseaofplanets]

Yeah there's no fuckin numbers in Zelda. And there's no "chance to miss/chance to hit". Having an element or two taken from RPGs doesn't make the game an RPG. It makes it action-adventure with minor RPG elements. Most games have similar features and we don't call everything an RPG just because you can use an item or change your weapon

[@Zohggy]

Things change with time and younger generations may look at it differently but to me (who played these games back when they first released); Zelda will always be a RPG. You can add "action" or "adventure" etc to it but you can't remove the "RPG".

[@backup_account_1]

First of all, I LOVE your channel. Watching this video (and others you uploaded) I can tell the difference between the first and third world. I'm from Argentina and here things from the 80s only arrived in the early 90s. Here no one had an original console or cartridges due to their high cost, so the "Family Game" was very popular, a clone of the Japanese Famicom. We never knew an original game with a box and manual, so we had to grow up discovering the controls, maps and other aspects of the games (not to mention that most of them were in English or Japanese). On the other hand, franchises like Zelda or Metroid were not well known in these latitudes; We usually had "bootleg" cartridges like "75 games in 1", which did not include those titles. We met those franchises in later console generations. Lastly, Nintendo was always very expensive here, it was rare to see someone with a Game Boy, SNES or N64. Most had the 8-bit Family Game, then some Sega Genesis clone (for example, I had the "Super Senga"), and in the 3D generation, PlayStation more than N64, especially because of pirated games. I think we missed a lot of the game experience, but I'm not complaining, we made do with what we had and were happy.

[@EoR_2B4GOT10]

Due to the lack of an expirience system in most zelda titles I call the series action adventure games. But I can see how some people disagree on that. Noone get hurt for disagreeing here. What I haven't seen before is someone that calls the Zelda series role playing games but SOTN not? This is some confusing stuff. And I remember when Larry Bundy Jr called the Atari Jaguar 64 bit and the Sega Dreamcast a 32bit machine. And the whole argument of Myamoto saying it counts as one, doesn't matter in the slightest. The Inventor of the gif said it's pronounced "Jif" to which I say gif stands for Graphics Interchange Format. Unless you change the legal pronouciation of the word graphics, it will be called gif.

[@Octav2000]

The wii u eshop actually considered Zelda to be a rpg

[@markasscop]

I remember the 3ds eshop also labeled the phoenix wright games as rpgs, and I don't think a single person considers them that

[@denveranthony5511]

Console Wars is officially Gannon-banned 14:27

[@ramza78]

I’m gonna agree with the King of Games himself. It’s really up to the gamer. You can call it whatever you like. To me, I always consider The Zelda series as Action Adventure games. 😂

[@fredo3161]

Holy crap, that kid at 1:36 wielding a completely black gat. Big no-no today. Also Zelda is an action-rpg probably.

[@MyRetroLife]

Haha yep they don’t sell toys like that anymore

[@junothescarecrow]

I love Manny and Mikey's haircut. It makes me know they were in good hands. 😊

[@SirWiggy12]

I feel that as the industry has evolved, so have the genres and the way we classify games within them. Most games are going to have qualities that borrow from MULTIPLE genres making it nearly impossible to divide them up in a way everyone's going to agree on.

[@vacantseaofplanets]

Having an element or two taken from RPGs doesn't make the game an RPG. It makes it action-adventure with minor RPG elements. Most games have similar features and we don't call everything an RPG just because you can use an item or change your weapon

[@dannykent6190]

You're not crazy for questioning this... you are crazy though for thinking this is a new question. This conversation absolutely happened back when those first came out. And you need to remember that these games, Kings Quest, along with text based things like Zork... were the very beginning of anyone considering any video game an "rpg." Prior to this, "RPG" meant dungeons and dragons which is an experience video games to this day haven't been able to fully recreate. Your point about every game meeting the technical definition of rpg is valid and something I thought about even at a child. I remember when funcoland used to have game pamphlets and some of the things they sorted into the rpg category were insane... like a football game... but yeah, technically it was correct. But after getting through the existential dread of realizing every hand was an rpg, I eventually decided I wasn't going to hold myself to such a loose definition. Interestingly, the original legend of Zelda, is without a doubt the game I credit the most with getting me into RPGs... but I've never really considered it one. It's a gateway drug to rpgs, but the rpg elements aren't really there... and it's got nothing to do with stats and level building. It's about the surrounding world. Save for a few random men in caves, you don't interact with anyone in Zelda. Aside from a few paragraphs in the manual and a scroll text when you first turn it on, there is no story. Nothing really develops AS you play. It's just a formulaic experience. Go to the next dungeon. Find the treasure. Kill the baddie. Repeat. In my book, an rpg requires some level of emotional connection to the player character. I love Link, but he's a replaceable sprite. The game would have been exactly the same if they had thrown Kirby or Mario in there. Nobody in game ever connects to him so no one playing really can either.