Have You Been Reading God's Mind? - Law & Order

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From Season 5, Episode12 "Progeny" - Kincaid and McCoy are determined to convict both the man who shot an abortion doctor and the activist whose rhetoric may have encouraged the incident.
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This is the official KZbin channel for Law & Order. Watch all of the official clips from the series, some of the best moments from within the criminal justice system, where the people are represented by two separate yet equally important groups: The police, who investigate crime, and the district attorneys, who prosecute the offenders.
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[@nickwilliams8302]

"If it was so righteous, why didn't you do it yourself?" A question that should be put to every terrorist mastermind.

[@Firan25]

"He who passes judgement should swing the sword?"

[@Optimaloptimus]

Firan25 So that he may die by the same sword when the defenders fight back.

[@LucianDevine]

@@Firan25 Back when GoT was good!

[@Firan25]

@@LucianDevine I wasnt referencing GoT. Thats a pretty common saying if I recall.

[@echo1736]

Terrorist? Yes. Mastermind? Not even close, just a crazy person who bring fear.

[@johnbeatz380]

"I am ready for your questions" Jack McCoy: "and I took that personally"

[@blakeb9964]

Lol

[@foolslayer9416]

I don't care what religion you have. Using God as a scapegoat for a reason to harm people is low. I don't completely agree with abortion, but I would never harm a doctor or abortion worker. Being a Christian and believing in God doesn't and should never allow an individual to act like God. If you use authority to corrupt others into doing ungodly things then you're just a coward.

[@robertchflynn]

Better to believe in the spaghetti monster. Then your mind clears up real quick...

[@gbreeze99]

Very well said

[@whathell6t]

Robert Flynn Spaghetti monster? You mean worshipping King Ghidorah; the planet eater, the golden demise, the Koko no Kami (the God of the Void)?

[@avian68tb]

@@whathell6t no there is a religion that worships a spaghetti monster in the sky

[@Optimaloptimus]

Which is why I chose atheism. I’d rather keep my hands clean from a crusade that most certainly could have terrible justifications, than swing a sword blindly following the will of a being that can’t do it himself.

[@missyadams]

There was a Law & Order episode where a woman threw a bomb into an abortion clinic, which killed a pregnant woman. She claimed she was trying to save a baby from being killed. But when the procecutor reminded her the unborn baby too died in the blast, she was speechless

[@andrewgifford1007]

That was a season 1 episode of og law and order

[@aaronwalker1678]

andrew gifford yup, it’s on this page as well

[@-nitroace]

Law and order suv sounds like a great car 🚙

[@squeakymcbeal6193]

Don't you mean "Law & Order SVU"? And it didn't happen in there. It happened in this series. Season 1, episode...10 I think. If the SVU has an episode of an abortion clinic, then I may have to find it.

[@WallyXification]

Squeaky McBeal yeah, it was from the O.G. Law & Order

[@KasbashPlays]

5:09 - "I'll instruct him to lower the temperature." Savage.

[@clearshade3560]

Glad the judge easily saw through his bullshit and knew the most damaging things done was what he himself was saying

[@KasbashPlays]

@@clearshade3560 McCoy glancing at the jury almost as if to say "you see this dipshit?" is also absolutely class. The Judge was merely observing a formality to see the idiot finish.

[@macdeus2601]

@@KasbashPlays McCoy is awesome.

[@falm9679]

Word!!!😂 Agreed!!

[@dietotaku]

and he said that AFTER mccoy had already lowered his voice in repeating the question.

[@JaneSt.Valentine]

As a former-Pagan-turned-Christian friend said the other day; bigotry wrapped in prayer is still bigotry.

[@mrchrysler9736]

Just curious what "Pagan-turned-Christian" means? Easter and Christ Mass and Sun-day worship are pagan.

[@silencia08]

@@mrchrysler9736 Wican?

[@classixdrummer]

Mr Chrysler - From the time of Constantine using “Christianity” as an expedient tool to unite his empire what you have is not Christianity but rather Christendom. Those who would at some point in the future claim, “Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?” There is a real warning in Jesus’ reply, “And then I will declare to them: ‘I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness!’”

[@Adam1nToronto]

Mr Chrysler I think it means their friend went from believing in the existence of many gods to believing in just one. They're getting closer to the real number.

[@juliantapia1407]

@@Adam1nToronto 😆

[@drakeardian629]

I don't think Mr Seely got the idea on how to defend yourself in a case. The 1st rule is to never represent yourself

[@feverspell]

I don't know who said it, I've seen it attributed to everyone including Abraham Lincoln, who was an attorney before he was President, but the saying goes, "He who represents himself has a fool for a client."

[@KasbashPlays]

Didn't the anti-abortionist from Season 1 represent herself for the closing statement? Seems to me these people have a pattern on this show.

[@karazor-el6085]

@@feverspell I found the earliest mention in “Humane Prudence, or, The Art by which a Man May Raise Himself and Fortune to Grandeur” by William De Britaine, published in 1682. "Before you act, it’s Prudence soberly to consider; for after Action you cannot recede without dishonour: Take the Advice of some Prudent Friend; for he who will be his own Counsellour, shall be sure to have a Fool for his Client."

[@Igarappappa]

Rule of Thumb in Law and Order: If someone defends themselves they'll either lose or something horrible will happen to them outside of court.

[@MMuraseofSandvich]

@@KasbashPlays She took the stand against the advice of her attorney. Almost the same thing, both characters tried to use the stand as a pulpit, which is never a good idea because it pisses off the judge.

[@Lunasent]

Creeps like these will do whatever necessary to protect an unborn fetus but will do jack squat to help a child that is already here.

[@nikkyk4839]

That's why they aren't pro-life. They are pro-birth and destroying the mothers lives.

[@ratherbenapping10]

Nikky K exactly

[@SaraLovelace1]

@@nikkyk4839 to quote George Carlin, they aren't pro-life, they're anti-woman.

[@barefootedgypsy93]

Actually plenty of them do help. Many people donate time, money, and resources. I know many people that take in children from unplanned pregnancies and other situations. However you seem more at peace with trying to shut down these organizations that help because they don't agree with you.

[@corberus3119]

@@barefootedgypsy93 the kkk does charity work too. An organisation like the church doing some good things doesn't erase all of the terrible things they do

[@Huntress_Hannah]

This dude was so flip flop on what the bible apparently does or doesn’t let you do. Holy fudge sticks I’m so confused lmao.

[@ohglory3924]

He basically used some verses in the bible to support his argument. Also God does not allow you to murder, that what Jesus said, that even if you have looked at someone wanting them to be murder you wanting evil for them you have committed a sin, because a crime starts with the thoughts, that why you have men's rea and actus rea the men's rea the intent, so the planing in your mind and the actus rea the actual doing. Bible in the old testament tell us things like love you neighboring and hate you enemies, and in the new testament says love you neighbour and pray for your enemies because in the old testament people didn't really want to follow God so God allowed them to do what they believe was humanly wrong to hate their enemies but the new testament Jesus show us how to actually please God by saying Love you enemies, especially when he died on the cross for me and you and pray for this who hung him saying, father forgive them for they don't know what they are doing, because they were killing an innocent man, not giving him a fair trail, that did his trail in the night, which was against the roman law and also they concluded which again is not right in the roman law, so it was an on just trial and also they bought false witnesses so again, Jesus says pray for your enemies, which is what this man should have done and not taken things into his own hands, Jesus loves everyone even though he doesn't love what people do, but he doesn't plan for you to die, which is why in the the verse the man for quoting in Isaiah says I knew before you were in your mother womb, and also another one, God said for I know the thoughts I have towards you meaning the human race, he said thoughts of Good and not of evil to give you an expected end, doesn't mean God believe that some human actions are right , but he is still ready to welcome you into Hus family, no one is perfect but God that why he doesn't expect us to be perfect without him, but with him we can become perfect daily we will fall some time but we will rise up. Jesus said joy, peace and love but the greatest of these is love. Jesus loves you both.

[@themonolith253]

Thats the abrahamic followers for you. Their entire mythology is all about flip-flopping. Thats why their ridiculous god Yahweh does not work as a concept.

[@Carolinacaveman]

there is so much in the bible that runs contrary to other parts of it. Then ya have to figure out which verse is more important than the other and hten ya have to figure out what is literal and what is metaphorical. It keeps ya busy and distracted and in a state of servitude until you die.

[@MrBingping]

Yeah a lot of religious people are like that. Condemning homosexuality from their couch sitting next to their 3rd spouse and child born out of wedlock. Hypocrisy and religion go hand in hand

[@dmadd4643]

@@MrBingping That's why I don't believe in 'Religion'. The concept of religion is a man-made institution, and what is more flawed than man? I have faith, not religion. I trust common sense to keep me from being a nut-job like the idiot in the above clip.

[@WavemasterAshi]

This argument just occurred to me. "You testified that when you went to Vietnam, you would have shot someone to defend others. You also testified that you killed Dr. Reed to prevent death. So...why didn't you?"

[@matthewforsyth284]

Dude no offence but you do know that he actually had somebody else kill dr reed right?

[@WavemasterAshi]

@@matthewforsyth284 That's not the point. The point is that he testified that he would have shot to defend others. Well, if this is about defending others...why didn't *he* shoot? It's basically another way to frame "You don't really believe you're defending life by doing this."

[@floppabingussled]

The late great Edward Herrman as Seeley. He captures so well the righteous leader's smugness and indigation in the face of McCoy's harsh assertions.

[@clairekehoe3667]

And he seemed so nice when Rory & Lorelai came for dinner....

[@haydenmack3784]

Which one, McCoy or the defendant?

[@kitkatmccabe]

The defendant. He played the grandad on Gilmore girls

[@siobhanconneely4199]

He is actor in one criminal and law tv show, the studio people are trying to find a face to fool people. Like his character, he was good.

[@dinojay8410]

@@kitkatmccabe ... you mean, Rory's grandad.

[@joannesmith2484]

And Mike & Sam's mom seemed to really like him until she found out he was the chief vampire.

[@LordZontar]

"I'm ready for your questions." No you are not, Mr. Seely. You really aren't.

[@aidanadkins5922]

You're not that guy, pal.

[@trevonpernell0814]

@@aidanadkins5922 Trust me, you're not that guy!

[@DrownedInExile]

@@aidanadkins5922 "I am that guy." - Amos Burton

[@LunaGoddess24]

This episode always reminds me of the season 1 episode when Stone prosecutes a women who bombed an abortion clinic because she believes abortion is a sin and she says she is not guilty "in gods eyes" but her logic is almost the same as this defendant. She was trying to do an act of God by trying to stop the abortions, but..ugh you gotta watch it yourself. Season 1 episode 12!

[@Seek1878]

And didn't they send a pregnant girl to do a bombing who also died?

[@hoohaa5088]

@@Seek1878 Yes, yes she was

[@thedelta4258]

But Stone broke her when he asked her if the bomb she sent also killed an unborn baby. You could pin-point the exact moment her mind broke

[@girlgarde]

@Bobbie Charles That he did. They may have had different styles but in the end, the two of them know how to exploit the flaws in the testimony of hostile witnesses.

[@girlgarde]

@@thedelta4258 I did too. Stone completely nailed her and broke her mind in a one hit KO.

[@lyramaria1067]

Loved Jack McCoy nailing this sanctimonious creep.

[@t-rexcellentreviews1663]

Lyra Maria Amen

[@dreamhobbiz]

hell yeah!

[@icaliver]

You can say he was criminally underrated actor.

[@thunderstud6701]

I like how delicately you worded that. Kudos to you =)

[@willflo3277]

Hear Hear.

[@svcbadasswaytocrash2369]

I'll never understand why anyone uses the Bible to excuse their actions.

[@MrUndersolo]

Get Out of Hell for Free card?

[@Blueboy0316]

Or the Koran

[@himwhoisnottobenamed5427]

Or the Torah.

[@yeah_right88]

Because they are spineless and simple minded.

[@ssenikinyange5290]

If you don't understand the bible it'll be difficult

[@nav7506]

I loved how the defendant was so backed into a corner that he kept trying to dodged answering it. Tried using God as a defense, and even tried to get the judge on his side by claiming McCoy was badgering him. He knew that once he’d answer the question he would be a hypocrite and have absolutely no defense.

[@PeachWookiee]

Indeed he was. And I'm sure God Himself would come kick this man's tail.

[@TheSchaef47]

Cult leaders are often content to sacrifice other people for their ends, because they're "too important"

[@jamesdrynan]

A well- written and -acted series. Took on many aspects of atrocious human behavior.

[@slyguythreeonetwonine3172]

Except for the wholesale murder of unborn children for profit.🤷‍♀️

[@shiftfocus1]

Seely: "That is between me and my God." Judge: "And me, Mr Seely." The moment he realizes he has no escape.

[@kgrkid]

Unfortunately for Seely, he just learned that it wasn't HIS god

[@kishascape]

DOC is gonna be his god now and he's in for 20 to life in Hell on Earth. Hope ya like pemis.

[@BB-ou3ue]

This scene is exactly why I love this show. It's so entertaining to watch McCoy cross examine people

[@patricelindo4942]

"I'll instruct him to lower the temperature" 😂

[@sethmorgan833]

Mr. Seely had no escape at that point. Both the judge and prosecutor had put him in checkmate right before his very hypocritical eyes.

[@baal1999]

I love McCoys interrogations. He was awesome in setting up traps.

[@dragonturtle2566]

But when he spoke of slavery, he said the bible didn't condemn it, yet it does. It's why Moses escorted the Israelites through the deserts to freedom.

[@trevonpernell0814]

@@dragonturtle2566 Also Ephesians 6:5 was figuratively saying to respect and obey the responsibilities given to you by your worldly boss (if you have a job.)

[@dragonturtle2566]

@@trevonpernell0814 Simply put.. be a good worker and not a lazy freeloading idiot. Common sense factor in that one really.

[@jayburris6252]

It was a scripted show performed by actors.

[@jakebowen6856]

@@jayburris6252 And that changes what?

[@pintpullinggeek]

"A client who represents themselves has a fool for a lawyer"

[@MichaelandCathy1999]

Mark Twain

[@BigPerm47]

" and by God, I am that fool." Gomez Adams

[@shioriryukaze]

@@BigPerm47 Man I love that quote!

[@MrUndersolo]

@@MichaelandCathy1999 Actually, Oliver Wendell Holmes.

[@dietotaku]

except the psychopath who killed a family, opted to represent himself in court, then seduced the jury foreman to secure his acquittal.

[@MrSailmakers]

"I am ready for your questions." Knowing Jack McCoy ... trust me you are not.

[@TheMan750]

Kincaid: “Eileen Reed died fighting for woman’s rights” McCoy: Eileen Reed died because Randall Jenkins put a bullet in her head” Simple yet easy how reasonable doubt can be drawn up.

[@electroskates2434]

Both are technically correct

[@matthewforsyth284]

dude no ofense but you do know that his name is actually Randall Jenkins right.

[@TheMan750]

@@matthewforsyth284 thanks for the correction

[@himwhoisnottobenamed5427]

I wonder. Does he have a son named Leroy? 🤔

[@indecisive.325]

@@himwhoisnottobenamed5427 you have no business making me laugh this hard 😭😭

[@HPmob420]

This episode is almost 30 years old and the hypocrisy of pro-lifers is still so relevant

[@TheJFerg24]

Of extremists, yes

[@prospero4183]

Hypocrisy is pro choice as well. It's the problem with a choice that is sometimes a lesser of two evils. Everyone picks sides at the extreme and declares themselves holy and the opposition as demonic

[@XIIIphobos]

Pro-life = Anti-women

[@belsnickel9568]

prospero 41 pro lifers aren’t alway Christians. It doesn’t come down to religion at the end of the day it comes down to control

[@prospero4183]

@@belsnickel9568 never said they were, but pro choice or pro life becomes noise to a debate that can never end.

[@Kadasberry11]

I love that Sam plays a retired lawyer on Grace & Frankie. Jack McCoy was so good. Top 5 on-screen lawyer 👏🏾

[@cakechanaudio]

This is the first time I've heard in a Law and Order episode that no one shouted, "Objection," in the middle of a court trial. I guess this is the first time everyone's in agreement that this man is a criminal.

[@katehynds550]

Cakechan Audio that’s so true 👏

[@DragonGoddess18]

Uhh, dude no offense but it's "trial" not "trail' like "trail mix" or "hiking trail"

[@johnlatham5391]

That guy was acting as his own attorney, so he didn't have anyone to object on his behalf. Not that the judge would have ruled for him anyway.

[@josephsherby]

@@johnlatham5391 Love that the only reason no one shouted objection is because there literally wasn’t anyone in the scene who could reasonably shout it

[@bananacathammock]

watching the subsequent scene, I think he represent himself? Therefore no defense lawyer to shout 'objection!'

[@catherinebland2717]

I recall a conversation I had with a prosecutor who studied theology and he said the commandment is thou shalt not murder. We commonly translate that to thou shalt not kill.

[@TimoRutanen]

Both are already translations. Possibly upon other translations, I'm not a thelogist .

[@Seek1878]

And it only applied to fellow israelities, not the other tribes they routinely slaughtered (infants included)

[@rcslyman8929]

There are a few other things in the Bible, especially where Christians are concerned. "Turn the other cheek", for example, as committing violence is so antithesis to the Christian faith that when another does you actual harm, you still are not supposed to strike back (and yes, I'm also aware that when asking "What would Jesus do", flipping tables and whipping people is not out of the question). Also, "Judgement is reserved for God alone." These are paraphrased, but it's the gist of the verses.

[@Seek1878]

@@rcslyman8929 The bible says a man can force a miscarriage on his wife if he suspects cheating...

[@prospero4183]

You make that sounds like it matters and the argument is over.

[@joelknight7539]

I had forgotten this show pointed out of the most glaring and obvious failures of the bible that Christians just generally ignore. Not only that it doesn't condemn slavery but it actually endorses and regulates it. Almost like it was a book written by men who lived in a world were slavery was not seen as a great morale evil but instead it was a social institution that they never imagined wouldn't exist. That or it WAS made by an immortal timeless being who just seemed to reflect the exact morale sentiments of the time period it was wrote in...how odd.

[@KasbashPlays]

@Newell Orban Not the entire world is Christian mate. Contrary to popular belief even the colonised countries (like mine where the population accounts for only 2% of the total country's population), aren't Christian. Most non morons know this.

[@skyeangelofdeath7363]

@Newell Orban Please provide the supposed verse that condemns slavery. Additionally; if we pretend for a moment the New Testament condemns slavery...that raises the question why? Did god change his mind? The all-knowing creator of the universe didn't realize slavery was wrong before the New Testament? Oh...and finally....you do realize the verse McCoy read in the courtroom was from the New Testament not the Old.....most non-morons know this.....

[@midwings00]

@Newell Orban so unless a religious text says something or the other people will blindly follow it? Even if its contradictory? And why does a book of god change its stance on a particular subject? Its God! Humans change not God he is the supreme being, he kno s everyone and everything! Or atleast that's what his followers believe and that belief is what makes people follow him... Even Flanders in the Simpsons says he does all the things the bible says even then ones that contradict the others!

[@midwings00]

@@skyeangelofdeath7363 I'm being a jerk here, but its fun to see other religions have doubters for a change. We just can't leave it at God is great can we? No we also want to say God decides everything. He gave you life and a brain but still everything is according to my plan! But still devil Exists and you sinned etcetera....

[@bensonbendon4275]

Slavery in the Bible is not the same as modern slavery, as I posted above. It was a debt owed by one family to another, so the one who owed the debt went to work for seven years or until the debt was paid. It was a business agreement and the worker was to be treated with respect and as a member of the family. It was not taking a person by force with no debt owed as was done, and still exists, in modern times.

[@lilybolanos9301]

I can’t stand the fact that people use Christianity and God as justification for doing horrible things.

[@vmax4steve524]

The bible is full of god instructing people to do horrible things.

[@DrownedInExile]

It's not a bug, it's a feature.

[@punkylynneramone1981]

Me neither! My abuser tried to use God and religion to justify his beatings towards me.

[@skippymagrue]

I worked for Ed Herrmann and met Sam Waterston. They were good friends with each other. Both really great guys!

[@dramseyno]

they were both in the Great Gatsby together

[@f0rtnitegaming72]

Gatsby is my fave book/movie and it kicked off my fascination with Sam Waterston. He will always be the only Nick Caraway for me. I’m glad to hear he was a good guy. I hate when my idols turn out to be jerks.

[@LordZontar]

Actors who are close friends often make very good on-screen opponents in movies and television. The same was true with Richard Widmark and Sidney Portier, who were antagonists in all the movies they appeared in together but were very close in real life.

[@bellerain381]

That is so cool!!! I bet you have many stories!

[@myname7056]

@@LordZontar Agreed. In Runaway Jury, Dustin Hoffman, and Gene Hackman faced off against each other. They were roommates in the 60s.

[@jamesamick2945]

This reminds me of an episode where a guy says he's gods prophet. Ben stone says oh really then why does the Bible say, if anyone comes as a prophet in my name do not believe them. People can use the Bible to justify whatever they want to justify. So it's nice when stone or McCoy would show these people that they didn't know the Bible as well as they think.

[@booyah2u296]

What season and episode is that? Who was the prosecutor? Great series this was?

[@rawyld]

Yes please tell me

[@jamesamick2945]

Season 5 episode 12 progeny

[@ppanonymous1700]

So many people use the bible to justify things when they haven't even read it... they are EULA Christians (End User License Agreement-they skipped over the fine print and just clicked "I Agree" at the bottom).

[@metalmouth0413]

The gas lighter got legally gas lit

[@DragonGoddess18]

Burn

[@adamplace1414]

One of my favorite scenes from the entire series. Fantastic play back and forth between these two great actors.

[@Chirpysemperboy]

Since he is so eager to quote Bible verses, here is an important one: Matthew 7, Verse 1 "Judge not, less ye be judged. For the measure you take against others will be taken against you."

[@trevonpernell0814]

3:34 And what is your sin? 4:12 You can't point a gun at another human being, even an abortion doctor, and pull the trigger, because in your soul, you know it's WRONG! 4:24 YOUR DEFENSE IS A LIE!

[@ColumbiaB]

I loved Edward Herrmann since I first saw him in “Eleanor and Franklin” and “Eleanor and Franklin: The White House Years,” in 1976 and ’77, and was never disappointed by his work over the decades following. I especially liked his turn, in ’86 and ’87, guest-starring on “St. Elsewhere” as Father Joseph McCabe. Of course, he was very funny on “Gilmore Girls.”

[@samanthanickson6478]

his small but essential role in "overboard" was great too!

[@Filmation77]

Don't forget The Lost Boys!

[@thomash.schwed3662]

Edward Hermann was one of my all-time favorite actors. My favorite roles were when he played my all-time favorite president, Franklin Delano Roosevelt, and I can't help but think he really looked up to him as well, given how many times he portrayed him, from the '70's through his final role as a voice-over in Ken Burns' "The Roosevelts". When Hermann died, I felt as though we had truly lost President Roosevelt all over again! Another role I really liked him in was on "M*A*S*H", when he played a surgeon who, tragically, "crashed" amidst the circumstances. I can still see him sitting on the floor in Col. Potter's tent trying to get the blood of off his hands, saying: "It won't come off." And, just by looking at him, one could tell that even he knew it was over. As noted in these two roles, Edward Hermann gave his characters everything he had. He was one of only a relative handful of actors and actresses about whom I can honestly say that.

[@richardrobart-morgan3407]

He also played Richard Rich Sr with near perfection.

[@Leslie58]

His role as Roosevelt was my first exposure to him as well.

[@eatingmage603]

Its nice seeing Sam Waterson in something after watching The Newsroom.

[@MuzzyBarker]

Watch Grace and Frankie

[@angemaidment5640]

TheLips1962 Sam’s the barrister.

[@malmal3003]

@@MuzzyBarker I love him on Grace and Frankie!

[@marcosjuarez7809]

Wow! What a powerful storyline on Law & Order. This remains me of another anti-abortion activist in Season 1.

[@booyah2u296]

Is that the episode with Ben stone and the lady? If it's that one, it was very good. Or was it another episode that I may have missed?

[@intldawn]

Ben Stone took her out with one brilliant question that turned her logic around and made her realize by getting a young pregnant woman killed, she was no better than the abortion doctor she said was a murderer.

[@marcosjuarez7809]

@@booyah2u296 That's the one.

[@marcosjuarez7809]

@@intldawn Exactly, she was no better than the abortion doctor she said was a murderer. It is like Ben Stone said when he asked the anti-abortion activist, "If abortion is murder, no matter how bad you feel for Mary Donovan, are you guilty of killing her unborn child?"

[@electroskates2434]

@@booyah2u296 THAT EPISODE WAS FIRE 🔥

[@dangerfindertreasureseeker8905]

When he said “ God told me to kill “, I found that funny. Why would God tell someone to do something that is a mortal sin. Breaking a commandment is a major no no , saying a couple Hail Marys isn’t going to cleanse that one away. Which makes me wonder who was really asking him to break Gods law, gee I wonder who that could be? ( sarcasm ) . Either way this man God following or not will be going to hell for using others he manipulated to do murder on another regardless of reasons why.

[@sleekelegancesuave]

Oh yeah he most definitely have blood on his hands

[@masternoob9673]

Sometimes one must stop and think: What kind of being is God, REALLY?

[@HeronCoyote1234]

I’m not religious by any means, but didn’t God command Abraham to sacrifice (kill) his son, which Abraham was preparing to do, when God said, “Ok, you passed the test. Now release your son and sacrifice that ram (conveniently) stuck in the bushes over there”?

[@bluesrike]

It's either: A. Their god is contradicting himself B. They use religion to justify their shittiness. Like so many people.

[@dietotaku]

exactly, and he wants to cite "i knew you before you were in the womb" when the bible also explicitly says the soul enters the body at the first breath of life. his citation doesn't prove abortion is wrong (the bible actually includes instructions on performing abortions, read about "bitter waters"), it just proves that souls exist in heaven and birth is what joins a soul to a body.

[@Vesperitis]

*Him:* That is between me and my god! *Me:* But you're not being judged by God right now, you're being judged by a jury. If God is all you care about, then you shouldn't be worried about going to jail because God will give you your just rewards, right?

[@paultrevorbale2440]

It’s never God it’s 4000 theology written by old men in a Middle Eastern desert who understood little of real life, and certainly nothing about what the future would hold!

[@PinkGhosty3236]

Someone finally said it! Thank you!

[@jonnnyren6245]

When priests sexually abuse First Nations children for years and an entire Church authorize the cultural genocide of an entire population and nearly 6,000 dead bodies found in school yards, and yet this same Church asks me to attend Sunday services and listen to a priest preach about forgiveness and call out dictators and politicians for corruption and human rights? I always come back to this argument made by Jack. I have come to the realization that religion and politics don't go together at all. And at the same time I've learned to realize the Vatican in all its holiness and God-like glory is not a spotless basilica of worship. And this is coming from a Catholic.

[@NWCountryGirl17]

putting aside Seely's character motives and the general superpower that is Jack McCoy Ed Herman was such a GREAT lost a real legend when he died

[@falcon3268]

This video made my day, seeing someone that tries to hide behind the bible get called out.

[@ryang54712]

McCoy always spitting logic

[@ShadySliver17]

It’s the WOMANS choice it’s her body and her responsibility wether she wants to keep it or not that’s her choice

[@elijahvigil7467]

👏👏👏👏👏👏👏

[@steveburke1519]

Why can't God do his own work? A quick heart attack is all it takes. Two possible reasons as I see it: God doesn't exist, or He doesn't care. It's not for us to decide what God wants.

[@childinchrist7335]

God is merciful.

[@finchcarvingadiamond]

@@childinchrist7335 so youre saying he just doesnt have play by his own rules and then so people can't have mercy themselves?

[@JnEricsonx]

@@childinchrist7335 Tell that to Chadwick Boseman.

[@electroskates2434]

Atheists: 🌚

[@scottmatheson3346]

@@childinchrist7335 so merciful he allows what you pretend to be children to be slaughtered? that's not even a coherent rationalization.

[@kreigguardsman3355]

I hate when someone uses religion as a legal defense

[@zevraluna1899]

Do not take the Lord's name in vain and sure as hell don't use it to justify your sins. Own that yourself

[@dramseyno]

Sam Waterston and Ed Herrman both were very young when they did The Great Gatsby.

[@sammiepittman3130]

That’s a lot of God to ask of you isn’t it? He’s supposed to be a a Father. Why would he ask any of his children to do that in his name? God called you to organize the killing of another one of his children???? What?

[@ashleighgray1387]

Am I the only one who’s is smiling like a Cheshire Cat 🐱

[@electroskates2434]

Me

[@Onlythetruth88]

Another warped idea, Hollywood has about the Bible.

[@carolmk3114]

Poor God always blamed for things that have nothing to do with Him. He says don't kill people and they kill people and say God made me do it. He can't catch a break. He says love your enemies and then they kill their enemies and it's His fault.

[@josephalbatross5961]

Is God ok with the abortion doctor who shreds a child in the womb to pieces?

[@dreamhobbiz]

People seem to know what God thinks and can read his mind. They are projecting their own desires and biases onto what they think God would like or not like, or even what he wants to hear. That's normal i guess. After all, God is made up of what people think and feel about him. How many times have we heard people say "God would want this", "God would want that" or "God told me to do this or that"? Really?

[@josephalbatross5961]

@@classixdrummer Why do you say it's "my view"? What abortion doctors do is a matter of record, is it not?

[@DrownedInExile]

@@josephalbatross5961 A fetus is not a child any more than a pine cone is a tree. If you don't understand that, you have nothing useful to say on this subject.

[@josephalbatross5961]

@@DrownedInExile A pinecone is not a tree. Baby trees and adult trees have different moral worth based on their utility to humankind. A fetus is not an adult. A living human child does have equal moral worth with an adult because all of humankind are created equal. Murdering a young human, old human, disabled human, dependent human is still murder.

[@dixbowman3452]

I would have caught him with Romans 1:29-30. Those who approve of others who practice such things as murder are just as guilty.

[@OrchestrationOnline]

The golden years, when all the actors and their chemistry were at their best.

[@KatonNeko]

The dude is back pedaling so much I'M pulling a hammy!

[@mad_as_Hat.terish]

Seems more like when people use God as a reason to commit horrible acts. Its like the salem witch trials.

[@Renegade2786]

How can you claim to be pro-life after taking a life?

[@deliagroer2613]

I don't believe in abortion but I do believe that a woman should have the right to her own body. Its the last property rule that men have over women!

[@TheBatugan77]

Not true. One, it's a separate being. Two, it's the murder of that being. Three, lots and lots of women, are against killing innocent babies. I'm not for bombing clinics or killing doctors. But anti-abortion folks (like me) believe killing babies in the womb. Both women and men.

[@wallflower7441]

Says “thou shall not kill” then tries to justify murder

[@cjfontaine9206]

Unlike most pro-lifers this guy is at least consistent in his beliefs. He opposes the death penalty AND war AND abortion.

[@DigitalPadawan]

but imposed death on the doctor?

[@omargoodman2999]

@@DigitalPadawan Well, that's kind of his character flaw. He's against all that stuff, but claims he'd be willing to shoot in defense of another and claims that "defense of another" includes a fetus. But then in Vietnam, there was always an excuse for why he never had a reason or need to shoot to protect anyone else and, with the doctor, he couldn't bring himself to pull the trigger himself. He's all talk and ideology but, when it comes to actually putting it into action, he can't actually bring himself to take the actions he, himself, advocates in the name of God. Classic cognitive dissonance; he's caught between understanding that killing anyone is wrong and being justified in killing someone to protect someone else and can't pick a lane. So his compromise is to make excuses and always have other people available to pull the trigger for him since he wants it done, but won't do it himself. It's a bad case of projectile dysfunction.

[@SystemofEleven]

...I mean I woulda just pulled out the verse where god literally gives the priests a recipe for an abortion potion and instructs them in its ritual use, but hey, I guess this works too.

[@alienlife7754]

I am a conservative who believes that a woman has the right to choose. Far too many conservatives seem to lose interest in the child once it is born. How is that caring about children? I don’t see these people lining up to take these children in. It is quite hypocritical.

[@Rog5446]

Your Honor, he's badgering me. Judge should have replied: That's the job of a prosecution lawyer.

[@MMuraseofSandvich]

Anyone who uses the witness stand as a pulpit needs an ego reduction. Edit: He represented himself. Yeah, I think his performance here is a great reason to hire an attorney if you're charged with conspiracy.

[@ericthomas917]

Jack is the man

[@electroskates2434]

Lol

[@lilyobrien3264]

It’s weird seeing a young Richard gillmore

[@dragonstarplanet]

The defendant is nuts.

[@MMuraseofSandvich]

Legally, no. He's fully aware of what he did.

[@niashacoombs2419]

@@MMuraseofSandvich that's even worse

[@TimberWolf1000]

First, God did not tell you to come forward you just making it up so you can get off easily and won’t get the death penalty, second take responsibility for your actions, and thirdly everyone’s a sinner and I don’t think it a sin to disobeyed God.

[@efuller3333]

Some powerhouse writing and acting in this clip ✨👏🏼 SW

[@madamvaudelune3298]

I am a Roman Catholic. We may die for our religion any day. We may never kill for it.

[@papabumba478]

It’s up to god to judge, so how can he say the doctors deserve to die? If god wanted him dead, he’d sort it. I don’t think he needs a measly human’s help.

[@5Mariner]

Give this judge a medal!

[@ebonifields4884]

Hey it’s Lorelei’s dad🙂

[@TheBatugan77]

"What is bigotry?" "Bigger than a smaller tree!"

[@thunderstud6701]

Jack McCoy is a beast. ( Mic drop)

[@hooting-ton5215]

Remember. When God said: "Do not use my name in Vein" he was talking about committing atrocious acts: war, murder or mass extortion in his name.

[@RogerPeet]

There are around 4,000 religions in the world. There are different definitions of when life begins. Why does anybody need to be forced to abide by 1 religion's beliefs?

[@nicklikesfitness2815]

I can hear legal eagle saying you can't enter the well...the bailiff will tackle you

[@rebeccaatkins2514]

OMG SAME LOL 😂😂😂

[@mcaskey358]

I'm going to use my fairy-tale sky god, to justify my hatred of women.

[@sonofbondjamesbond]

Hows that vampire not catching on fire? I think the frog brothers are looking for you!

[@HellstreamGames]

Thats the thing with these sickos. The second the baby is born, they stop caring about his/hers life

[@Chemdawg2009]

Top ten cross examinations on L&O

[@melindachapman8927]

2:45 Hold tf up we not just gonna speed past this like he just didn't admit to killing her

[@calebcarmichael2257]

I’m a Christian and I believe god gave us something we should listen to just as much if not more then the Bible. A conscience.

[@nikkyk4839]

It's not murder if you get rid of something that can't live without you or to be specific, your body. They would die either way if it weren't for their host, so why call it murder? Some things are just not meant to be.

[@SpideyRules-pq6be]

That argument doesn't really work since they still wouldn't be able to survive without the mother even after they're out of the womb. They would need to be fed, bathed, clothed, kept warm, protected, etc. Think about it, no one would just leave a baby to fend for itself just because that baby happened to be out of the womb. A baby is just as dependent on it's mother as a fetus is, just not in the same way (for example, the mother can feed the fetus just by eating while a baby would have to be fed directly). The question is whether or not fetuses are considered human or sentient life, not whether they can or can't survive on their own since that would be a ludicrous stance to take.

[@electroskates2434]

@@SpideyRules-pq6be Sometimes we need abortions

[@giles852002]

Absolutely fantastic performances!

[@eldridgedavis]

Thumpers are the worst...

[@fulcrum2951]

"That is between me and my god" And god will still ask the same question

[@Matthew209100New]

God is Love, using him as an excuse to murder...is Heresy

[@Reaper12131]

Why I try to stay as far from religion as possible

[@aprilmay578]

God whole heartedly demands abortions, (sick). Ten biblical episodes and prophecies provide an unequivocal expression of God's attitude toward human life, especially the ontological status of"unborn children" and their pregnant mothers-to-be. • A pregnant woman who is injured and aborts the fetus warrants financial compensation only (to her husband), suggesting that the fetus is property, not a person (Exodus 21:22-25). • The gruesome priestly purity test to which a wife accused of adultery must submit will cause her to abort the fetus if she is guilty, indicating that the fetus does not possess a right to life (Numbers 5:11-31). • God enumerated his punishments for disobedience, including "cursed shall be the fruit of your womb" and "you will eat the fruit of your womb," directly contradicting sanctity-of-life claims (Deuteronomy 28:18,53). • Elisha's prophecy for soon-to-be King Hazael said he would attack the Israelites, burn their cities, crush the heads of their babies and rip open their pregnant women (2 Kings 8:12). • King Menahem of Israel destroyed Tiphsah (also called Tappuah) and the surrounding towns, killing all residents and ripping open pregnant women with the sword (2 Kings 15:16). • Isaiah prophesied doom for Babylon, including the murder of unborn children: "They will have no pity on the fruit of the womb" (Isaiah 13:18). • For worshiping idols, God declared that not one of his people would live, not a man, woman or child (not even babies in arms), again confuting assertions about the sanctity of life (Jeremiah 44:7-8). • God will punish the Israelites by destroying their unborn children, who will die at birth, or perish in the womb, or never even be conceived (Hosea 9:10-16). • For rebelling against God, Samaria's people will be killed, their babies will be dashed to death against the ground, and their pregnant women will be ripped open with a sword (Hosea 13:16). • Jesus did not express any special concern for unborn children during the anticipated end times: "Woe to pregnant women and those who are nursing" (Matthew 24:19).

[@A_friend_of_Aristotle]

The best way to avoid moral confusion is to build your ethics on conviction and not faith. Convictions built using the focus of your reasoning mind can be tested against reality and, if found incorrect, abandoned in favor of the facts. Not so with faith...more often than not it is reality that is abandoned in favor of a lie.

[@snakebitepellehue]

That's precisely the reason why I built my pro-life beliefs on conviction, such as science, and not on religion, even though I'm a believer. If they were built only on faith then they would be very fragile.

[@amirsafwan8491]

Like how Desmond Doss did it? Convictions built using the focus of your reasoning mind I mean.

[@davidstrohl]

Well said.

[@scottmatheson3346]

@@snakebitepellehue no, you didn't, no matter how much you lie to yourself about it.

[@snakebitepellehue]

@@scottmatheson3346 Oh really? Do you know me? Do you know what I believe in? If not, then stop mansplaining MY convictions to me. Thank you very much.

[@artman2oo3]

This is a very fine and good dramatic scene. But it’s all unnecessary. Murder is murder. Punishable by law. It’s illegal to bomb an abortion clinic, it’s illegal to conspire to bomb an abortion clinic. Period. “God told me to do it” is NEVER a viable defense.

[@minutemanthezealoustiger1499]

I love Kincaid's actor. He's a great audio-book reader. As for Kincaid, as a Christian myself, enjoy hellfire.

[@boombangpow889]

“No? So…have you been reading god’s mind?” OOP! 🙊 Okay, Sol!!!!

[@KOHF34]

No way his Bible quotations would be allowed in an actual Court along with characterizations of abortion clinics.

[@Seek1878]

lol, I was thinking "objection!" at least three times here...

[@grf15]

@@Seek1878 Why? McCoy wants him to rant. The crazier he sounds the more likely the jury will convict.

[@Seek1878]

@@grf15 From the defense lawyer lol

[@grf15]

There is no defense lawyer. He acted as his own attorney. He raised an objection that he was being badgered. A little too late, he already had stepped in it up to his neck by then. @@Seek1878

[@jamesbaggett7223]

Edward Herrmann is a underrated actor

[@kdohertygizbur]

No way ...he's very much honored