Have you listened to Pater Noster pronounced in ancient Roman Latin pronunciation?

latinum.org.uk

[@Roflcopter4b]

It's so nice to see someone actually doing the classical pronunciation. I don't get why anyone would want to pronounce an ancient language as though it were their own rather than what it really was.

[@Rufio_Cristiforus_Tucarus]

The Catholic church is backward like that.

[@alcuin18]

Languages develop when used. It really makes little sense to not develop a language over time.

[@rtelkin2194]

Partially, for written texts, anyway. But Latin pronunciation, like all languages, changed variably from the (e.g.) fourth century (actually much earlier, as a continuum governs the evolution of every language amongst non-literate peoples across centuries) to the end of the Roman Empire in c15, and the consequent development of the many minor vernacular dialects that grew into the major Romance languages once literacy (as in reading & writing) brought standardization to the fore. This was attended by the parallel onset of common use of the printing press, and the production of grammar books.

[@SuperManning11]

Excellent point. I would add that whilst pronunciation drift is certainly accelerated when the populace is non-literate, it also evolves over time among the literate. i.e. North American English vs. British English.

[@fragore9326]

Beacause Catholic Church pronounce has been used for centuries and centuries, scholars and intellectual used it and wrote with it, so it has gain over time it's own dignity and historical influence, therefore even if you don't have to read latin with the scholastica you at least have to be aware of its existence and value

[@JXTVE]

Dear Evan, You are a remarkable scholar and teacher. Thank you for giving so freely of your time and talent. James

[@patrick-sprachenmusikstudi5351]

I'm so suprised that many people here don't know what the restored pronunciation is or that they mix it with later or recent pronunciations. Your speech was quite perfect and I think everyone that has learned about the classical pronunciation will not question your video.

[@Vitek530]

9:49 Start there

[@xElMery]

Thank Jises you exist, good man :)

[@MissMidoria]

lol Thanks!

[@omarsanchez7599]

Vitek530 thanks. Skipped all the useless crap

[@seemablake3739]

Thanks!

[@adilsonlc]

Vitek530 you rock!

[@jmitus0817]

BEST classical Latin pronunciation I've seen yet, and I've scoured youtube looking for the most accurate translations. Great job!

[@anniepark6694]

John The guy from latintutorial teaches everything in Classical Latin.

[@justeraitas4673]

you got to be kidding

[@weirdlanguageguy]

@@anniepark6694 latintutorial's pronunciation isnt very classical, it's heavily americanized. There are other channels, such as ScorpioMartianus or Alexius Cosanus, that have a very authentic accent

[@DemetriosMPapadakes]

Evan, great job. You inspired me to make a video of how the more ancient Greek sounded, together with the more ancient possible predecessors of the prayer.

[@wacia107]

Evan, I learned from one of the BEST Latin teachers around... She taught us the classical, ancient Latin and had us translating Ovid, Horace and Catullus by our Junior year of high school. I used to dream in Latin and take all of my notes in Latin. Your pronunciations were spot on! Thank you for educating people who have probably only experienced Latin though Church, which is a very different dialect. I always cringed in Church when I would hear Latin pronunciations! ;)

[@justeraitas4673]

no dude, just no. pronuntiation is bad.... and these pretentious accents. geez

[@kellynorman9270]

Classical Latin was restored by Emperor Charlemagne to have a standardized Latin throughout the Roman Catholic empire. It was also to prevent Latin from being overtaken with the regional romance languages.

[@renatotrujillo6572]

Kelly Norman j

[@anniepark6694]

Kelly Norman ".. to prevent Latin from being overtaken..." Sounds like Latin has been overtaken, though, since most people would say it's dead!

[@Tom19142]

Never heard about the Roman Catholic Empire.... maybe you mean the Holy Roman Empire?

[@weirdlanguageguy]

@@anniepark6694 well, it is dead in that the standardized classical form doesn't have a native community. But, in a way, that just means that the language can be preserved without language change as is inevitable with a living tongue

[@radovanmarcincin2502]

I thought it was Charlemagne who created the pronunciation we call ecclesiastical? He brought the latin culture in medieval Europe after all.

[@joagalo]

It's the best work I've ever listened on the internet! And thanks for your bibliographycal references of Allen and Bennett (in the video and in your comments), as a member of the Latin world I always wanted to know how our ancestors pronounced their (our) language, and I've founded very little things till today. In my native vulgar Latin of Hispania, brought by conquerors to the Americas, I say you: ¡Muchas gracias! :)

[@danharrity9406]

This is fascinating. Thank you! This was the first time I'd ever heard of the word "tuum" having a nasalised final consonant.

[@mariateresasatta]

What sounds funny to me is that, ok, the original sounds of the letters are well reconstructed, but the accents of the words and sentences have a "music" that sounds definitively English :D

[@XxshinasaixX]

Thank you so much, this helped me fall asleep. Been needing rest.

[@Lycidas84]

Thanks for this video. One little thing that I noticed was that your "t"s sound a bit aspirated before a vowel, similar to the English/German pronunciation or to how Classical theta would have presumably sounded. Is this intentional?

[@KevinTMcGing]

Excellent work. Thanks for all of your efforts.

[@meruullah7753]

Excellent Loved it, keep up the wonderful work

[@mobtek]

As someone learning latin and antiqua cursiva romana this is is invaluable! Many thanks Evan.

[@thormusique]

Beautifully done, thank you!

[@iamahorsenut7541]

I'm learning Latin at Uni and this is lovely to listen too. Thank-you

[@123WelshDan321]

Brilliant, thanks for making this! Just for your interest, the ae dipthong retains the classical Latin pronunciation in Welsh e.g. Caerdydd. When English people pronounce it, they generally use the medieval ae pronunciation! Strange to see the old language patterns reflected in modern speech :)

[@TheTiacat]

Thank you for taking the time to do this. I've always wanted to learn The Lord's Prayer in Latin.

[@Egilhelmson]

Why? It was first spoken in Aramaic, then in Koine (Greek), and only later in Latin. Hell, it was probably spoken in Khoptic (ie, 1st C version of modern Coptic) before Latin. Oh, and lower class Latin before the upper class (i.e., Classical as taught, and as spoken in the Senate). This is an interesting exercise, but as historically valid as translating and speaking it in Achaean Greek, Hittite, Hebrew, or proto-Germanic.

[@monsieurboks]

@@Egilhelmson Yeah but latin sounds cool

[@Zwerchhau]

Classical Latin was only pronounced that way in a very narrow period in the Republican period. Ecclesiastical Latin is closer to the Latin spoken during the late Roman Empire.

[@minutescience7817]

What's your evidence? A 6th century stone in Britain and several stones in France show that the "v" was still a "u" sound, and c's were certainly still hard.

[@Zwerchhau]

My evidence is basic linguistics. All Romance languages have a change to c preceding e, or I, with the same effect for g. For instance Italian Ce is pronounced /tʃe/, Spanish /θe/ (spain) /se/ (mx), Portuguese pronúncia is pronounced /pɾunˈũsiɐ/, Romanian 'faci' is pronounced /fat͡ʃʲ/ not with a hard C, French 'prononciation' is pronounced /pʁɔnɔ̃sjasjɔ̃/ There is not a single Romance language that exists that does not affect a change to C in some fashion if it is followed by e, or i, and pronounces them as /k/ when followed back vowels such as a, u, o etc. This tells us that the late Latin dialects which were being spoken toward the end of the Empire which would become the various Romance languages were altering the pronunciation of c when followed by these vowels, and were not pronounced /k/. Latin existed for a very long time. Pronunciation in living languages is never static. The classical pronunciation is a specific pronunciation of a particular time period and geographic region. It is not how Latin was always spoken for eternity.

[@minutescience7817]

British names in the 6th century show British Vulgar Latin still had "c" as "k" and "v" as "w".

[@minutescience7817]

Zwerchhau And I know, I speak both French and Spanish. What's your point? French and Spanish are not good examples of a language evolving. Both were HEAVILY influenced by a foreign language (Frankish, Scandinavian and Gaulish for French) and arabic for Spanish. And I don't like your condescending tone. "Latin existed for a very long time." Yeah, no shit. "Pronunciation in living languages is never static." Dude, I reconstruct PIE as a hobby. I know.

[@Hespericus]

Mi lengua materna es el español y NO ES cierto que el árabe haya influido en la fonética española: sólo lo hizo (parcialmente) en el vocabulario. La lengua que más influyó en la conformación de la fonética española fue el vascuence... pero este ya había sido fuertemente influido por el latín anteriormente! El gran parecido que existe (en general) entre español e italiano, a pesar de sus muy diferentes influencias respectivas tardías, seguramente es prueba de que estos dos idiomas son los que conservan una fonética, una sonoridad (en general) más próxima al latín.

[@another90daystochangethis34]

"t" should always be pronounced as it is in "noster". No aspiration. Same with other letters that are sometimes aspirated in English as well.

[@eklera]

Thanks for this. Very educational.

[@vortimulticompte7177]

Latin often nazalised vowels before n and m (/ũ/ /ɔ̃/ /ã/) and most often rendered final m as /ŋ/ nazalised or not (< -em> /ɛŋ/ but < -um>/ũŋ/). Thought that can change according to the following word.

[@erkkinho]

In Finnish we have short and long vowels and consonants. Moreover, our consonants lack aspiration. Thus, we have no problem pronouncing Latin.

[@FRAGIORGIO1]

Thank you very much. I would like to add two items to think about, one being the G in Regnum as a possible similar pronunciation to the intervocalic G in Lago or Hago in Spanish. In Italian, Regnum sounds like Renyo, but in Spanish like Reyno. Perhaps the Italian Romans used a different pronunciation from the Iberic Latin speakers. Also, the S may have sounded in intervocalic positions (if not in other positions) similar to the Castilian Spanish pronunciation of S with the tongue against the alveolar ridge so that in certain positions the resulting sound became Rhotacized., as in Flos/Floris. The unvoiced final consonant becomes voiced in intervocalic position.

[@mahidharc4866]

For some weird reason, I got this video recommended to me by KZbin. I live in India, and never studied Latin. And yet, I watched the whole thing. Fascinating stuff.

[@PiperForStThomas]

Ironically you use the medieval spelling of Coelum.

[@weirdlanguageguy]

What do you mean? Caelum is classical

[@mariovrpereira]

Very nice video, I study latin by myself for 2 years (with a break of 6 months) and follow the Wheelock's Latin. I do the same (almost) pronunciation that you do, it is very good to see your work and compromise. Did you hear the audio files of that course (Wheelock's)? The guy makes a huge effort on prosody and this kind of stuff. I love it. Thank you! Valē!

[@Fnatic2010]

I just started with Wheelock's Latin. What do you think about that book? You seem to be english speaker so i would like to know your opinion for my native language is Mongolian.

[@mariovrpereira]

Nomado I like that book very much, The book fits with my way of learning a new language. A lot of people have issues about the method, as you can see on the internet forums, but, as I said, I like it. But isn't in itself a complete sight of Latin, would be good if you have others sources of information. I'll send you a message. By the way, my native language is Portuguese, I'm from Brazil.

[@weirdlanguageguy]

@@Fnatic2010 I know I'm late, but would recommend LLPSI by Hans Ørberg. There are a few youtube videos that explain it

[@miha.susnik]

Awesome video! I did notice some missing long vowels (RĒGNVM, NŌBĪS, DĒBITŌRIBVS, DĒBITA, LĪBERĀ, GLŌRIA, CŌTĪDIĀNVM), and one too many (SAECVLĂ), but that might just be my ear.. great job!

[@miha.susnik]

***** Nope.. :D

[@miha.susnik]

***** Bennett says RĒGNVM, as I said above :) The vowel quantities of all other words are not even hidden though.

[@richi9289]

Hi Evan, first of all, I'd like to thank you for this wonderful video. I see, you posted it already a few years ago, so I won't mind if won't reply. I may start by mentioning that I am a bit acquainted with classical, ecclesiastical and reconstructed pronunciation of Latin. As an Italian native speaker, I may comment on your "r" as well. I do not mind the alveolar polyvibrant quality of your pronunciation of this phoneme, but I do need to mention that you pronounce geminate like some sort of double "r" like in "*amarre". I believe such a gemination may have had a distinctive function in Latin. Both vowel and consonant length could help tell words apart that otherwise sounded quite alike, After all, Romans wrote double and single r for a reason. In terra, the "r" may have been more like a thrill, in amare, the "r" may have sounded more like a tap. This is the only Italian-like feature I might back in Latin,. As for the features like palatalisation of the velar stops G/K and the affrication of the labiovelar approximant "w" into "v", such changes took place late in Latin and had not occurred yet or at least spread in the so-called Classical period. However, at least the affrication of the labiovelar approximant "w" should be taken into account in reading texts written after the second century CE. Hence, the pater noster from the Vetus Latina could be read according to what we know of Classical pronunciation, the vulgate version though, should feature at least the affricate "v" instead of the approximant counterpart "w" as probably every Latin native speaker did by the 4th century CE (each and every Romance language shows the exact same mutation, so it had occurred in Latin). The same holds for the diphthong "ae", which you pronounce as "ai". Such a quality might have been dominant in archaic Latin. By the first century the diphthong was more like "a" followed by a very short "i" like in "fit" which easily passed as "e", the sound must have further deepened and most probably merged with "a" into a deep "e" sound such as in "get" by the second century. Palatalisation of velar stops occurred much later and shows a whole bunch of varieties in Italian dialects, let alone in the whole Romance landscape. I am from Rome and I pronounce "cielo" (sky) as "shelo", not as "tchelo" like in standard Italian, other dialects have some sort of fronted occlusive stops, alveolar or dental affricats like "ts" or even a sibilant. So, palatalization occurred on the verge of the transition of Latin to Romance languages. The monophthongation of "ae" though, occurred in Latin. So, if you were to read the pater noster from the vulgata, you would read cælis as k-e-lis.

[@cesariushervelazco8]

your T's and P's sound very Germanic. Try to listen to the differnce between the English/German T and P and the Spanish/Italian T and P

[@sameash3153]

yeah, he's aspirating them. Classical Latin allegedly only aspirated T's and P's in Greek loan words written th and ph.

[@annafernando6816]

Hold your hand in front of your mouth and make sure no air hits your hand when saying these letters. At least this is how I got rid of my gringo pronunciation of these letters when speaking Spanish.

[@JamesMartinelli-jr9mh]

absolutely. Where is 'the Italian vinegar in my veins' as an Ancient Roman wrote. Who knows his name?

[@TheRedFox1995]

Thank you for the wonderful video Evan. Do you know when the Classical Latin Pronounciation begun to change in the Roman Empire? For example, would native Romans have pronounced the Latin Vulgate (when it was written in ca. 382) in a way sounding like Classical Pronounciation or something closer to Ecclasical Pronounciation? Best regards,

[@TheRedFox1995]

***** Thank you for your great answer

[@nickeeboy]

Thanks for all the great videos. A decade back, I used pronunciation such as these and various localised conventions and got stared at so hard whenever we sang in Mass, my instructional materials were from different schools. So if you're singing in an RC church choir please do it in the modern Roman way. I think it sounds smoother. :-)

[@esther444]

I love it and your LATIN rocks:))

[@oldoutsider59]

I understand that this is a secular presentation and, that no matter what; someone will want to bust your chops over it. I am a devout man who appreciates your teaching and is grateful for it. Please keep up the good work!

[@mikemoreno4469]

Excellent. Very informative, thanks.

[@LatinumInstitute]

Glad it was helpful!

[@wastbergcardonacardona7343]

Tank You. From Colombia.very special

[@jamesb.8940]

Going to Mass is usually the closest one gets to the even more ancient, pre-150 AD Latin.

[@016329]

It’s interesting how „v“ shifted in pronunciation away from a sound like English „w“ towards a sound like modern English „v“. The same thing happened to the Germanic languages (except English).

[@Nejvyn]

I liked this video, although I think that there can't be THE Ancient Roman Pronounciation since Latin was spoken over a long period of time and I'm sure Scipio didn't spoke the way Commodus did e.g. But I have this question: when I was in school we were told that the Romans had an melodic accent rather than an aspirational one. Any thoughts on this?

[@y11971alex]

I've wondered why the Romans changed the spelling of to and if it represents anything phonetic.

[@myronmoskalyk6576]

Hi, I am currently in grade eight and my school teaches us Latin. Our teacher has a very strong Latin accent. Will this affect the way I enunciate the language? I already know the first, second, third, third irregular, and fourth declensions. I want to continue with Latin but want to know whether the way my instructor speaks the language will affect my ability to speak the language with a natural accent.

[@xenvox724]

How’d it go?

[@HamsteresCricetidae]

Hi. The vowel "a" alone is long, please? For example, in "Sed libera nos a malo" Also, as for the accent of the Ecclesiastical Latin is the same of this Latin? I know the difference between pronunciation ("c" pronounced like "tch", among others...), but the accent (long and short vowels and syllables) has no difference in both Latin: ancient and Ecclesiastical? Thanks!

[@LyraBestPony]

Really awesome stuff here! really helps with my IE/PIE research. Also, never knew the cirumflex accent made it into Latin, really makes it sound more akin to Greek or the original PIE. Just a little irk, wouldn't it be more useful to write out the latin with the vowel lengths (ie. ā or ă)? Or, let me plant you this as a question: Why are the vowel lengths not always show if they were so important to the pronunciation?

[@LyraBestPony]

I see, thanks for the quick reply! And keep up the awesome pronunciation!

[@stjacquesremi]

I've heard that words having a [ti-] in the word (such as ''tentationem'') was usually pronounced ''ten-ta-TSIO-nem'' which explains why in french, spanish, portuguese the [ti-] came up sounding like [ssi-]; but the [tsi-] sound was kept in italian and romanian

[@roysuttie5847]

Rémi St-Jacques if you talk fast, that is what you could hear. However, if you'd ask an ancient roman to pronounce it very slowly, it'd probably sound more like 'tEnn-tah-tee-Ô-nemm', but ofcourse if you'd pronounce that fastly, it becomes more of a 'tjo' and then aspirating the 't' (the t as in english with a lot of air). This would eventually shift from a /tʰj/ to a /tsʲ /

[@weirdlanguageguy]

That pronunciation became standard a few centuries after the classical period

[@GIFPES]

Amazing..."nasalization of the last vowel "u" in "tuum"", it is just like portuguese sounds...we do not pronounce "um" but "u+u+nasal tone"...you are very correct! By the way, the long "uu" is because "um", in latin is a case.

[@26blanco]

i like your videos a lot,they are little lessons to learn this language

[@quadbravo]

This was informative.

[@silvestercannone8140]

Given the great detail taken to get the pronunciation right, why not the identification of the letter “v” pronounced as modern “w” ?

[@alexanderbenitez5729]

eem seems like an english version of latin pronunciation i'm latin american though i understand a few words by context others sound wierd and i guess it's the cognate thingy but the question is now or at least my question xD how they pronounce latin in hispania? i mean i know spanish is some sort of vulgar latin but here's another question: is there any way they pronounce the gn or ng whatever... like the Ñ in spanish or italian or the dypthongs like in french or other romance?? just asking... ty

[@Nemirtas]

Cool video and nice Idea! I have just one question: You pronounce words like "adveniat" and "voluntas" like [adweniat] and [woluntas]. Isn't the "v" in Latin pronounced like the "v" in English? so not like "well" but like "vast"?

[@BuddyNovinski]

I could have used this pronunciation when I was learning this piece through Frederic Wheelock's Latin in 1974!

[@SuperManning11]

Question/observation: English being quite a sponge of a language is often quick to adopt foreign words that rapidly become a part of the standard lexicon, and therefore even our modern pronunciation of certain imported words can actually help linguists to determine how the word was being pronounced in the original language by noting the time period when the word came into English. The only example that comes to mind is from French to English with the ever-shifting 'ch' sound in French, offering us both 'castle' with a hard C and 'chateau' (circumflex accent intentionally omitted as I am referring to the word in English). As most Latin words in modern English come to us through French along wth other romance languages, I wonder if we could look back further to see when Vulgar Latin developed in these countries to the end that we could then deduce the pronunciation of the Roman Latin at that time. Just a thought... I wonder what you think of this, or if it would be at all possible. Thanks. Excellent video!

[@smultanius]

About the gn issue: For one, velar n + n is more likely to lead to the palatal n which the sequence developed into in Romance, and it's very likely that change from g + n happened before the Classical period, because the exact same change happened in the pre-Classical period to pn sequences (older sopnos > somnus). However, the alphabet didn't have a letter for velar n, like it did for m, so the sequences remained written gn.

[@ucriamarianna]

you can check it on "google translate". It is not a reliable translater, but pronuntiation and accent are very good.

[@seraphik]

2:45 is where the actual Latin starts.

[@albertm.m.3574]

your "t" ,"p"," are often aspirated which is an English pronunciation

[@divxxx]

That's great! Just a question, is the tonal accent that you are giving accurate, or is just the way you pronunce it? Does this pronunciation of latin have a tonal accent or only a tonic accent?

[@misterplatypus96]

Saw that nobody answered this. If you're still wondering, Latin had pitch accent, which is sort of like tones, but not as extreme.

[@Crdmau]

I also would like to know how do you pronounve latin words starting with vu- or a word like vulva ... uulua?

[@festin11]

***** And 'via'? Also the fact that this letter was used also sometimes for V does not suggest that Latin pronunciation was something middle of the road between w and v? Also when attempting to write down some non Latin names they were using letter W - Wendland etc - was it W or V?

[@Crdmau]

2 years have gone and I happened to read again... and I had an "eureka" moment. I actually had the answer and it didn't come to my mind at the time, and it does suggest you're right. In sardinian you can say vulva in two ways, one is (from cunnus) and the other is... . It looks to me that vulva, pronounced wulwa, became ulla in medieval sardinian, then it became udda in later sardinian (most of double l became double d, for ex. villa -> idda/bidda). To summarize: vulva -> ulla -> udda. I had my answer in my random example... that's odd and that's why I wanted to tell you.

[@weirdlanguageguy]

Wulwa

[@weirdlanguageguy]

@@festin11 we use a different letter because the v is a semi vowel and u is a vowel. It's the difference between the English sounds w and oo, y and ee

[@bigd3996]

The long "o" isn't held longer, it's a different sound.

[@NetRolller3D]

I noticed that you're pronouncing unrounded 'o' sounds (at leas in "nomen"), like in modern Italian (or at least in the Trentino dialect, which I'm familiar with). Is this actually known, or just a guess based on Italian? (I'm referring to the "o" of "nobis" sounding like the "a" in the British vs American pronounciations of "water")

[@NetRolller3D]

+Evan der Millner I was not referring to pitch or stress variation, but an actual difference in vowel quality - some languages (e.g. English, especially British) have a "rounded" O, while others (e.g. Italian) have an "unrounded" O. "Nobis" sounds unrounded in this video, all other Os are rounded.

[@designoergosum]

Love it, thank you!!!

[@LatinumInstitute]

You are so welcome!

[@hdckdsadd]

how do you pronounce veni vidi vinci?

[@MrMarkhughes22]

This is great stuff

[@73288]

I need little help. In my study book it says: C=C in front of i, e, y, ae, oe ( mean long e=é) so Cicero=C, Cyrurus=C Then C=K on the end of the word, Hic, in front of consonants, word doctus, in fron of a, o, u, words colonia, cursus. So far ok but what about word clamo? C or K? Thank you for advice.

[@73288]

Oh that does not help. In my books and on the few internet pages it says for classical Latin what I've described earlier. It frustrating that I cannot find what is true. But thank you anyway.

[@MASA-po2zg]

How can we find out what kind of accent latin lanquage had?

[@Hespericus]

Una pronunciación poco correcta porque está contaminada por la fonética del inglés, lengua materna del que habla. La fonética es una de mis pasiones: mi lengua materna es el español (modalidad ibérica), aprendí el francés y el italiano siendo muy joven, y también estudié latín muchos años, así que puedo notar fácilmente lo que se sale de la norma. Por ejemplo, aquí el hablante pronuncia AE como AI, pero esto es incorrecto: la pronunciación de E era como en español o italiano, sólo que muy breve, porque forma diptongo con la A. Otra incorrección es palatalizar algunas consonantes: la T o la P, por ejemplo, seguramente por influencia del inglés: pero esto no era así en latín.

[@danialezero93]

Hello. Why do you pronounce A-regnum in minute 5:00? Please explain.

[@escargot1886]

He mentioned somewhere around 3:05 that the "r" sound is pronounced in Classical Latin, but we have no idea whether it's a trill or a back of the throat sound. Does that help?

[@Egilhelmson]

It was trillable in proto-Indo-European, why not the same in Classical Latin?

[@legorickdeckard229]

So basically the difference between the short and long vowels is the rising italian'ish accent (circumflex)? I had read that apparently the vowel quality shifted, for example that the long i was like ee in english and the short i was like the english short i in riddle. Is this the american scholastic pronounciation you mention?

[@legorickdeckard229]

***** I see, but does the vowel quality change?

[@linguaphile9415]

If we juxtapose all the modern descendants of Latin and consider the manifestation of the in these languages we find that only one, namely French, uses a sound different from the voiced alveolar trill (which is the sound Evan seems to prefer in his pronunciation). It is very unlikely that all these languages have developed a new feature independently and converged towards each other in this respect. The is trilled in Spanish, Portuguese, Italian and also in Romanian (which has Latin roots but is strongly influenced by Slavic languages of its geographical neighborhood). It is likeliest therefore that the is pronounced like in this video. It is funny, however, that, as Evan said, the Romans described it as a “doggy“ sound because I also heard this description in reference to the English alveolar approximant. It is, of course, certainly not the one the Romans used.^^ But considering how broad a gorge of time has grown between the ancient times and today and taking into account the fact that we do not have any actual sound records of the language I find it a difficult task, even for historical linguists, to fully reconstruct the pronunciation. When I hear a Latin text read out, even with the biggest effort to bring ancient Rome to life, I still sense a certain stiffness that I can't help overhearing. I doubt that we will ever succeed in its perfect recreation. A pity since it had such a huge impact on Europe's cultures, languages and due to our colonial history also on the whole world. Will we ever invent a time machine?

[@leekeater1527]

Linguaphile It is perfectly reconstructed; ON PAPER. And apparently, nobody seems to be able to pronounce what is on the paper.

[@seronymus]

The Restored Classical pronunciation sounds stiff because it was the educated pronunciation used by the patricians and Senators and others. In Roman graffiti even in Augustus' time we see grammatical errors that suggest the pronunciation of the masses was more singsong/looser and of course varied from province to province.

[@linguaphile9415]

+Saint-Emperor Constantine the Great of the Roman Empire, Equal-to-the-Apostles Yes, Latin had already split up into different dialects that soon became the different Romance languages. The same thing will happen to English in the future.

[@seronymus]

Linguaphile Imagine what will happen when we start colonizing other planets.

[@linguaphile9415]

+Saint-Emperor Constantine the Great of the Roman Empire, Equal-to-the-Apostles Many languages would evolve. But it all will have started here on earth. I often wonder how people in 300 years will see us. How different will the world be? Will they travel from planet to planet? Like in Star Wars? Really sad we have to go so soon.

[@davidjolley2468]

I think the ‘r’s were rolled in the back of mouth, (the dog sound as the Roman linguistics describe it) and I think the ‘v’s, while soft, were pronounced similar to how we would pronounce a ‘wh’ sound. So “veni vidi vici” might’ve been pronounced: “whenee wheedee wheeki”. Why do I think this? Because we know that ‘v’s were soft, and ‘c’s were hard, given that, it simply sounds more natural. And let’s be honest, dogs growl in the back of their throat, not on the tips of their tongues-even ancient Roman dogs I’m guessing. Thoughts?

[@snallkriminell]

So how do you feel about the theory that H:s were dropped ("odie" rather than "hodie")?

[@RafaelROUNDUP]

I find this very interesting, in portuguese the word hodie means "hoje" and it has a very similar pronunciation.

[@TallaricoMario]

Okay. You right. Thanks.

[@anniepark6694]

I didn't know Powerwolf quoted a famous text in one of their songs; I thought the guy made it up! LOL

[@Max-vj3zb]

Why don’t the words with circumflex accents have circumflexes on them? Also I think gn makes ñ like french and Italian, right?

[@LatinumInstitute]

Latin is not usually written with accents. Have a look at this new Latin course I am developing - it is going to be available for free on KZbin: if you like it, you can support this project at my Patreon. The course is entirely in Latin. lnkd.in/eXEe4hQ

[@sabinacovarrubiasa]

Gracias!

[@tirpitz19]

Foarte interesant.

[@InfinityLRDL]

I thought the "h" was a silent letter in Latin. Since most Romance languages don't pronounce the "h" letter.

[@creamofthecrop4339]

This is Classical Latin.

[@hosseldonfearanen4775]

+CerealKillerOats The h was silent even in classical latin. Metric confirms it.

[@creamofthecrop4339]

Hosseldon Fearanen thank you.

[@mikecorazao]

"H" was not silent in Latin. It became silent in most Romance languages in much the same way that "H" has become silent in some English dialects like cockney.

[@hosseldonfearanen4775]

Miguel Corazao H was silent in classical roman latin. There were places (especially south Italy) where it was pronounced and this was regarded as a "peasant" accent.

[@esmeraldagreen1992]

Latin continued to be used for scholarly communications throughout the middle ages, Renaissance and well into the 18th century coexisting with its descendants the Romance languages. Therefore who is to say classical pronunciation is more accurate than medieval or renaissance pronunciation?

[@smultanius]

1. Ancient writers writing about how they pronounced the language. 2. Historical linguistic reconstruction, which involves evidence from the pronunciation of modern descendants of Latin (i.e. the Romance languages).

[@Bruno-hd9qo]

you choice of 'regnum' seems the correct one. Since im a neo latin language native speaker (ptbr) and ALL of west romanic languages 'g' in that case is pronounced as you did, it just cannot be no more than a mere coincidence. English way is NOT from latin definitely.

[@Vasquimho]

Salve omnes! How come the letter m in the end is nazalised? What do the sources say about that? I know portuguese has this exact feature. Bonus laboris magister Evan!

[@weirdlanguageguy]

We know because final m was lost in all of latins descendants and because of how it behaves in poetry

[@nancyevans8645]

Do you mean short a when you say long a? I'm a bit confused, new to Latin.

[@meruullah7753]

Excellent

[@LatinumInstitute]

Thank you! Cheers!

[@Elpolloloco52]

I've never been on board with the tendency to bash Ecclesiastical Latin. The pronunciation is a legitimate evolution of the Latin language, not just some hackjob pronunciation thought up by a bunch of bored bishops who rediscovered Latin a few hundred years ago.

[@williamrees6662]

Jo Seon-ho Unlike the modern Mass, which was thought up by a bunch of bored bishops who rediscovered archaeology a few decades ago.

[@weirdlanguageguy]

Actually, that's almost exactly what it is. Ecclesiastical pronunciation is a derivation of one of the first attempts at reconstructing original latin pronunciation by scholars at Charlemagne's court in the AD 800s. Although I agree that bashing it isnt a good idea, after all there isnt a community of native speakers anymore

[@Elpolloloco52]

@@weirdlanguageguy This was around the time when Latin was identified as a distinct language from the evolving romance languages. The efforts of Charlemagne's court were more about standardization than reconstruction, as formal Latin was still used in the Church and had come to be used in the university as well.

[@weirdlanguageguy]

@@Elpolloloco52 yes, so they began to pronounce letters that turned silent in the romance languages. It wasnt merely standardization

[@Elpolloloco52]

@@weirdlanguageguy Right, but it isn't as though they had lost the pronunciation and had to figure out what it was again, a la Erasmus. They knew (or thought they knew) what the pronunciation was, and were aware that there were various vulgar dialects that did not use it. This is equivalent to insisting on pronouncing the "t" in water as a /t/ and not a tap consonant. I don't think most people would call that a reconstruction, nor if there were many such rules together. A reconstruction has to have a specific pronunciation system it is attempting to emulate. Saying that instituting a general rule on pronouncing every letter amounts to a "reconstruction" is really stretching the meaning of the term.

[@F-Man]

Just wondering about the pronunciation of ce, gn, and h. Why does ce get a hard c and not a soft "ch" sound like we see in Italian? Also in Italian, the gn is pronouned similarly to the Spanish ñ and the h is silent. Why then, if this represents the 'correct' pronunciation of Ancient Latin, do modern Romance Languages which heavily derive from Latin seemingly get it wrong when it comes to these sounds?

[@davidjolley2468]

I should add that when I said ‘wh’ sound, I meant a ‘wh’ with more vocalization rather than the sort of whisper we say it with... sorry I’m not an expert, I don’t know the proper terms.

[@simranshrestha7097]

Could anyone tell the meaning of those latin lines?

[@TarebossT]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord%27s_Prayer

[@johnnywolford4519]

Id go with the rpmance languages pronounciation gn of renyum instead of regnum

[@renejamis2149]

Hello, I've recently been told that I've been using the word Fratres incorrectly. It was my understanding that the word meant "Brothers". Brothers in Christ not brother as in a relative. Although it may mean that, but I don't know. I have been told that Fratres means Monk or Priest. What is the correct usage of this work. Thank you for any help you can give me.

[@weirdlanguageguy]

Frater means brother. Originally only family brother, but it later gained the meaning spiritual brother and eventually monk

[@charleshamilton9274]

“...pretty much ignoring all the Classical Latin rules which were handed down to us.” Yep, that sums it up nicely.

[@KJRRanch3d]

Yossi as a student of Latin I agree with you. Church Latin agrees with you also.

[@saintrude]

I'm sure Latin was like any other language in that the common people spoke common Latin or "Vulgar Latin" and the educated spoke a somewhat different form of Latin. A few thousand years from now, if we are still around, scholars may point out how some people said "wahsh" and others said "warsh." My guess is that prayers were more often spoken by commoners than by the highly educated. There is still a huge difference between scholarly Latin and Ecclesiastical Latin...and let's not even get started on scientific Latin which bares little resemblance to either. Umteen years ago, I was taught to pronounce "v" as "w," but it's difficult for me to overcome the urge to use the "v" sound when saying "Ave Maria." Anyway, I really enjoyed your video. I love listening to different opinions. Thanks for posting this.

[@jackwright2495]

+Saint Rude I like the way the orthography changed with j being added later to represent a consonantal i (English y), and the original v for a long 'oo' sound changing its sound to a consonantal u (English w). The letter u appeared *after* the letter v! Depending on which era it is, Jupiter is written either Ivppiter, Iuppiter or Juppiter. Currently, most Latin texts leave out j in favor of i but distinguish between v and u.

[@FrothingFanboy]

+Saint Rude "Away Maria" LOL LOL! I couldn't say it that way to save my life.

[@saintrude]

In school I learned to say "w" for "v" but my priest used a v-sound. I never once thought of "away" but I will now. lol

[@Yamashta]

This is probably a dumb question, but where do you come from/what is your accent? Your default, natural one. It's very nice- not overly strong at all. It's soft.

[@HeadshotProductio100]

It sounds like a Southern English accent, though I'm not sure which specifically because I'm a northerner and we don't bother whit' t' posh Southerners, I'll tell thee.

[@NedFerguson]

Since when does a long "a" equals "ah?" Not being smart, I would actually like to know if I am missing something. Same thing with the "e."

[@flamebird2218]

I must remind you that the Letter V could make a "u" sound as well. The letters U and W did not exist in ancient Rome and were both represented with the letter V. The letter U was a variant of V that was developed and used in Medieval Latin and did not exist in Ancient Rome. So Gaius Julius Caeser would be spelled as "GAIVS IVLIVS CAESAR".

[@rursus8354]

Very much better than those "homeschool" pundits who mangle the beautiful Latin language through the horrible Anglosaxon meat grinder, to produce Frog Latin.

[@auntpurl5325]

We do the best with what we have. Have a little grace toward those of us who are working hard to redeem two generations simultaneously. Homeschool parents must overcome our own lousy modern educations to provide classical tools and content to our kids. I appreciate the generous homeschool teachers and providers.

[@rursus8354]

I said "homeschool", not homeschool. I prefer regular education though, but "professional" (= clever) homeschool teachers should listen to this video *carefully* before making their own videos. Learning how to pronounce the vowels like in German is also profitable, since the Germans are usually pronouncing the vowels pretty similarly to in Latin.

[@imperatoraugustus2801]

On average, homeschoolers get better grades than public schoolers in college, and by most measurable criteria, are more successful overall. Also, most schools don't even teach Latin. Most homeschoolers are certainly getting something that is closer to a "classical education" than the average student.

[@solar0wind]

Shouldn't there be more nasalization?

[@mariajoseflies8869]

you are right Evan. I am getting too old. When I studied in the convent we said like "chelo". I studied Latin during 2 years, ad went everyday to a latin mass. I took a look at google dictionary and the say caelo

[@mariajoseflies8869]

sending you a catholic priest praying (singing) Pater Noster like in Spain es.aleteia.org/2017/04/18/el-elevado-pater-noster-de-este-fraile-te-conmovera-e-inspirara/

[@mariajoseflies8869]

Anyway althoug Im an old woman I hope it was a nice chat.