Hazbin Hotel is Frustrating

[@DanielGoldhorn]

Helluva Boss video is coming soon now that the Season 2 finale is out.

[@Flower_Mom]

Sounds like the show would have worked better as a slice of life show. When I watched the pilot I kinda expected it was going to be like an M rated Foster's Home for Imaginary Friends with a bunch of demons with crazy designs staying in the hotel together and the shenanigans the main group gets into. Then the season finale would drop some lore crumbs to tease people about what the next season will hold. Sadly, I think episodic shows like that are going extinct unless it's a preschool show like Bluey.

[@cosmicspacething3474]

What are you talking about? There’s multiple shows that are episodic. Just look at this montage of *_pure pain and suffering_* 1:43

[@Flower_Mom]

@@cosmicspacething3474 I wasn't aware all of those shows were recent. I thought they came out quite awhile ago. I have a poor concept of time. But it feels like a lot of shows these days are serialized because of how streaming and binge watching works.

[@Nopeasaurus]

yeah i expected the show to be more grounded and episodic in the beginning, just have sinners being rehabilitated one by one all the while lore is teased in the background. heaven vs hell stuff comes near the end of the show as the big finale. start simple then add complexity. But NO dump that all in the first season and leave me wanting nothing.

[@diamoond11]

EXACTLY!!! they went against literal heaven in the first season after.... 8 episodes. like that shouldve been the finale... of the entire show

[@MASTEROFEVIL]

To be fair, the problem with serialized cartoons is that there's no guarantee for a second season. But yeah they could've done it better with the pacing

[@claudiuskeat8336]

The worst dialogue in the series, is Emily calling the denizens of hell "innocents"

[@Corrector1]

Yeah, I wish an editor had caught that. Maybe they don't deserved to be slaughtered because Heaven is afraid of them, but if they're in Hell it's unlikely that they're "innocent".

[@wdestroarchive5934]

and then valentino exists

[@zierragacha5089]

@@Corrector1 Unless they did something minimum that Heaven thinks is enough for them to not enter Heaven

[@filipporapetti9354]

Not really, one of Emily's defining traits is her extreme good-hearted naivete. Of course she'd see them as innocents, she doesn't know any better. I still hope she faces reality later on though

[@kojoattah3987]

@@filipporapetti9354It doesn’t take much brains to know Hell = bad until the show finally goes into what it takes to get sent down there And in the same breath Emily says “I’m not a child to protect” so we can’t have her be naive and independent

[@TheAdamSplitter]

I’m surprised you didn’t mention how in the finale Charlie is in total despair at losing losing Sir Pentious and Lucifer asks her why she has a frown on her face as if she wasn’t dealing with the fact that her friend was disintegrated a bit ago. Talk about pacing whiplash.

[@Doodleandcompany]

I couldn’t take sir pentious’s death seriously at all because it was treated like a total jokr

[@paradoxtatorstudios9681]

@@Doodleandcompanyhonestly bro i wish they didn't treat it like a joke it made it have no impact whatsoever 💀

[@ggggggg3222]

Yes, they were just "ok!" Even if they don't know EXACTLY whether Pentius went to Heaven or died

[@caramel_cares]

he wasnt there when he died

[@jacksonvandenheever8241]

@@Doodleandcompany i literally cried when he died, but i see what u mean. Pentious was a comical character all along. This is not a drama show, get a hold of reality.

[@Junefier-JUNEFIER]

What's up with VizziePop Shows pitching good concepts, then throwing them aside for other stuff? Like seriously both shows seem to do this.

[@DrAngelKins]

I think corporate metalled into the series

[@cometnight0]

@@DrAngelKins Helluva Boss is basically funded by the watchers, so it's really more likely a Vizziepop thing

[@I_Dont_Believe_In_Salad]

Daddy Issues

[@Facelessbuster]

I noticed that too! Both shows have cool premises but it just doesn’t focus on them.

[@WeebGuru6]

Viz is like Rebecca sugar fanfic writer who think that moment makes a story

[@Logan_Zimmerman]

My biggest problem character wise was Adam. They didn’t go much into his character and I ended up despising him more than I intended.

[@pancake6662]

bruh

[@JunKazamaFan]

Adam gets a small bit of character development in death, but unless he comes back as a fallen angel in Hell in Season 2, he's wasted potential.

[@christopheraboah4530]

I’m feel like Adam served his purpose as a villain, and that made him pretty likable as an antagonist for me. Generally terrible person gets killed by janitor. Would be super funny if he became a sinner as well.

[@Cyburim]

I agree i did not like him hes literally just a white blitzo he didnt get a single laugh out of me,, i feel in the small minority of people that really dislike him because hes really popular for some reason i cant understand 🎉 waste of script space imo

[@strikingsarcophagus]

Yeah, I liked Adam more than I thought I did, and I'm kinda pissed he was only used in three episodes, the last of which he dies in.

[@SpoopySquid]

"Great concept, terrible execution" is Viv's modus operandi at this point

[@poormanchemist]

Woah I’m taking that phrase

[@Theokal3]

I'd say more "great concept, clumsy execution". Hazbin Hotel isn't horrible, at least in my opinion. But it does have some glaring flaws.

[@Comet346]

@Theokal3 Agreed, I thought it was a great show as well. Definitely not the worst but could use some work.

[@SpoopySquid]

@@DanaiHamit what?

[@michaelortiz1561]

It's like she never heard of Dantes inferno which kinda does this premise waaaaay_yy better

[@insert_apathetic]

8 episodes is PLENTY for the initial premise of trying to figure out what gets sinners redeemed. It was Vivzies “we gotta fit everything” thing that made it so it seemed rushed.

[@OliverOilFr]

tbh I think it whould've been better if the characters had gotten to some kind of clue or advance in knowing that, but no-one getting redeemed yet. It still was good enough but idk

[@mirulei]

11:47 THANK. YOU. it honestly shocks me the polarity between alastor and valentino where one is characterized as a sweet little silly guy and the other is seen as satan incarnate. like THEY ARE BOTH HOMICIDAL SLAVE OWNERS WHO PHYSICALLY AND EMOTIONALLY ABUSE THE PEOPLE LEASHED TO THEM??? the cognitive dissonance at play is genuinely insane to me.

[@justanomorifan3059]

People consider Valentino more evil due to his sexual abuse. Which is weird because Alastor is a cannibalistic serial killer... I'd argue Alastor is worse than Valentino in many aspects.

[@Nopeasaurus]

Without a doubt, Val is worse than Alastor by a landslide. The best example is how Val and Alastor treat their contracted sinners. Val has Angel Dust raped on the TV all the time. Meanwhile, Alastor has Husk act as a bartender in Charlie’s hotel to rehabilitate sinners. Val constantly tortures, rapes, and humiliates Angel Dust. The only time Alastor actually threatens to hurt Husk is when Husk reminds Alastor that he’s chained on a leach just like him. Given how terrified Husk was, he probably isnt used to Alastor going mental like that. Not saying Alastor isn’t evil because he definitely is but at least he has some restraint and generally won’t hurt you if you don’t insult or attack him compared to Val who will needlessly torture you just to feed his ego and remind you whose in charge.

[@akaneshio6406]

We like Al and no one says he's a good guy. He's terrible, but he's not annoying. It's like some sociopaths/psychopaths in shows that are extremely charming - you can't help but like them even tho they've done terrible things. They are FUN. And there are just evil characters who aren't charming, you just can't like those (and I do appreciate Val's charm, well... the 2 slightly charming scenes. I found him pretty funny. He's goofy as hell as well.) The difference is that Val murders and tortures people for amusement, while Alastor has a GOAL in mind. He does everything with a plan, he's calculating and understands how to get power. So he's nice, charming, and scary when he needs to be to gain power. So he wouldn't abuse Husk and Nifty for the fun of it (he's always nice to Nifty from what I remember and only was very mean to Husk when Husk insulted him. So he did what he did to get the momentarily lost power back. I'm not saying it's moral, I'm saying he's smartly using his power. He IS mean verbally - but to everyone, and every other character is. Vaggy, Angel Dust, Husk, etc, all of them who are considered good have insulted people to their faces. So I don't see this as a "bad" thing in literal HELL.). So he doesn't abuse them like how Val treats his... "employees", it's nowhere near the same. Val kills, tortures, and abuses, etc his employees because he's simply bored, angry, etc. That doesn't make Alastor good, it makes him the lesser evil that's good at manipulating people - even the viewers, into liking him. Charlie literally sees him as a dad because he is good at tricking her. And I personally LOVE smart evil characters, they are fun, they are charming, and I enjoy watching them. When I see Val I just wanna punch him most of the time, because he's neither smart nor ambitious (well, sure he's working w/the Vs to have more power but nothing he does is for that power, he doesn't WORK for it - other than his 'movies', it seems Vox & Velvette are doing 90% of the work), there is nothing to like or find funny about him. He's also too "real", which is easier to hate. (Plus we're in hell. Everyone is evil in one way or another. It's just that in hell there is lesser evil and pure evil. Alastor seems like a power-hungry demon who will do anything to get there, even if it means hurting others. Val is just a sadist) I might've mixed up Val and Al's names in my small essay above, so I apologize for that, 'Val' and 'Al' are literally 1 letter apart so...

[@Goovdluck687]

I think it's because alastor isn't going around abusing husk or nifty ALL the time like Valentino to angel. Alastor got mad at Husk after husk disrespected him but Valentino just abuses Angel for no reason constantly. So it's just to the audience ones worse than the other.

[@mirulei]

@@akaneshio6406 i think the terms we're using here are confusing. valentino doesn't just own angel for the fun of it; angel is a valuable asset for him. beyond what angel provides on his own, angel's also been made into a sex symbol so he works wonders for val's image. there's presumably more at stake than just "personal amusement" considering the emotional dependency he has to want angel nearby at all times, if anything he seems to rely on the fact that angel earns him a lot. the idea that in comparison alastor does everything "with a plan" and with no personal gain from it is... strange? like, the plan is ultimately for his freedom and control, but this is supposedly meant to be read as less of a self-gratifying motive than val's just because alastor has the social awareness to calculate his actions beforehand? if the abuse is premeditated and not impulsive suddenly it's morally permissible to make people suffer just because there's room for doubt over the abusers intentions? think about this. val getting his employees (read: slaves) to sign a contract which is then used to force them into traumatic sexual exploitation just to support his business = for personal amusement. selfish and unjustifiable. alastor getting overlords to deal their soul just to be eternally ripped apart and tortured so he can broadcast their suffering out to hell on the radio = for completely instrumental purposes only. serves... a purpose? presumably? i feel like the standard of comparison is convoluted here. alastor is less immoral because he intently decides to kill and torture people? for his own freedom? seemingly whereas valentino is immoral because he kills and tortures people for gratification or basically 'no reason'? outside his business i guess? this is much worse? because...? like, yeah. val is in every regard far less likable. alastor keeps himself composed and feigns congeniality to exploit other people. such is automatically more tolerable than someone as short-sighted and emotionally labile as valentino who assumes he's automatically entitled to other people's favor. not just that, but working against him is also the fact that sexual abuse is far, far more difficult to justify and even just digest as a concept for people over standard violence. one of them is absolutely more respectable than the other and it's easy to see why. but to say that they are on two entirely separate planes of morality? ...i don't know, i really can't see it. i feel like there's really not that much variety in what shade of gray someone can be once they've started enslaving people to profit off of their suffering in some regard. especially considering we still have no idea what the hell is even going on anymore with the souls alastor previously owned. imho.

[@A-woldanimator]

My biggest problem in the show is the endless plot holes, like the angel weapons are left because they don't care is a pretty bad, it makes me less afraid of the angels now that I know that they are idiots hay up there one ass, And heaven existing for 1,000's years and have NOT seen a pattern in what it takes for someone to go in to heven, especially when you realise that there are other ranking angels doing different jobs.

[@christopheraboah4530]

Well to be fair, nobody knows the exact reason. It’s not as if anyone is actually privy to the information. It seems obvious enough that people just appear in heaven and let on in. I don’t think it would be too far of a stretch to say nobody but the big man himself actually knows the rules

[@A-woldanimator]

@@christopheraboah4530 That's a good pint have to admit, but I meant something like actions, character traits, motives and reasoning, mindset, ect, it would have been interesting to see let's say Adam have a jerk personality but he cleans his room, cleans the dishes, is on a healthy diet or even requesting that he himself became a sinner and go to hell for safety and protection of his army. Adam is jerk but he is trust worty as all hell and he only want what's best for everyone including being a jerk so that none would cry when he died.

[@strikingsarcophagus]

What pissed me off was Vaggie and Lute not knowing angelic weapons can harm angels. Like bro. Lute cut Vaggie's fucking eye out with an angelic weapon. Wtf

[@A-woldanimator]

@@strikingsarcophagus Thank you but I don't thike we shod think too mach abou this Viv hase shoun as time and time agene (atlist from my prspectiv) she only geve us what we whan't: Lucifer and Charlie coming back together, Fizz and Ozzy's relationship, Stolas stending up to Stela, but ignores what was established: Blitz wanting to yous the grimvar despite working with a Succubus how needs an Asmodeus crystal to go the human realm, Charlie heating Alastor in ep 7 but fully sporting his trust in ep 5, Ozzy and Bee being "good" deadly sins (things that are increased in the modern day btw), but Memmon is still a typical depiction of greed, I can discrab this shows problems in one line: "too many cool ideas in one place".

[@talhailhan4018]

i think about the angels not knowing, they dont need to... they help the winners (show's words not mine :) they dont judge them, they dont take them in... they probably never asked themselves the question ever... i think its believable since the one woh questioned stuff is the greatest dad in hell and emily immediately gets threatened by sera( i think it was a threat at least!)

[@fayescarlet]

This is a very fair and sound criticism of the show. I loved it myself, but you make points I soundly agree with. The first episode was truly a rough start, especially with Adam giving us the reason why the "if X was written by Vivziepop" is a meme in the first place. One can hope Season 2 will iron out these issues and get a tighter focus, and less of a breakneck pace.

[@brandycole387]

I totally agree. I really want the show to do better, but I will also say that I love it so far as well.

[@PramkLuna]

Agreed, I've never seen an analysis capture what Mimzy's appearance actually means to the show. I feel the same for a majority of these characters that happen to be fan favorites.

[@MiraBoo]

I completely agree as well.

[@teacoon6399]

Charlie isn't even redeeming sinners, she's introducing them to self improvement. Redemption would be more or less getting the characters to acknowledge that the shit they did to get them sent down there was wrong and coming to terms with it.

[@yalovoyhznepomny]

Forget it- she's just a Disney Princess with dream

[@Comet346]

And hopefully that self improvement will lead those sinners to realize the sh!t they did in life was terrible.

[@yalovoyhznepomny]

@logarithmus.naturali Alas, Hask and Alastor did all the work for Charlie.

[@michaelortiz1561]

No one even knows why they😮 are down there since no one know what gets you into heaven in the first place it's literally you either go to heaven or not in this show and it's terribly done, the understanding of both Christianity and demonology is sad.

[@CosmosGem]

Oh, right cause they still hurt people before, even if they were hurting.

[@sawatee100]

One thing that really confused me: what exactly are Hell’s politics? Like, Lucifer is the king, but has no idea who Alastor, who seems like a pretty big deal, is. He doesn’t seem involved in Hell at all. Is he just a figurehead? If so, why does Charlie view the people in Hell as “her people”? It seems quite different from her father’s point of view.

[@billyboleson2830]

Lucifer is a depressed shut in so yeah he’s the supposed leader but doesn’t really do anything anymore cause he’s a doomer lol

[@ThePiachu]

Yeah, the problem I immediatelly saw when watching episode 1 was "oh no, they want to make a series about redeeming villains but they are better at animation than story-writing, that's a problem...". The big problem with the premise is that redeeming someone means you have to take a stance on morality and philosophy. What is a sin, what gets people to hell and heaven, can anyone be redeemed from hell and so on. And then deliver on that in a way that's not hamfisted or too simple, which often takes good writing and time. It's like delivering on character growth but then even more. But this series isn't The Good Place or even Infinity Train. It's a series where drugs are bad but alcohol is fine, where the "moral center" of the show is a sheltered gal born to royalty telling people living in the dirt of hell to do better. But then all of that doesn't matter since the series ditches its core premise and goes "Lore! Backstory! Dark secrets! Big twists! Big anime fight!". Which is fine, but then why did you set the premise up in the first place? If you want to just do Helluva Boss Baby 2, do it... And then yeah, the finale is a bit "meh" writing-wise. "We will fight to the last person against the enemies that seek to kill all of us!... But let's not kill the biggest baddest guy because he's a named antagonist and that would be bad." and "guys, turns out death by self sacrifice is the path to redemption! I looked at the first TV Tropes hit on 'redemption' and used the most popular trope there...". So while I did enjoy the characters, the songs, the art, animation and so on of the show, the story and writing did not keep up unfortunately...

[@AbimaelLopez-hz3qq]

Charlies sin -> pride

[@Ironicuss]

I don’t really have a problem with that at all. If anything it’s to show Charlie’s naïveté how in despite how much she cares about, promotes and fights for her hotel, she doesn’t actually know what she’s doing. A sign of her obvious privilege and how she’s been sheltered growing up. The point is that she has a very shallow understanding of how morality and redemption works, believing that a series of team-building exercises and lack of drugs will magically make sinners equipped for heaven. In the start of episode 5, she has a breakdown over why her plan isn’t working, due to the fact she was going about it all wrong in the first place. Not a writing mistake, but exactly as intended. With Pentious in heaven and hints of Angel dust’s brother and even suspicions of Adam coming back in season 2 it is very likely there will be an exploration of who these people were when they were alive and what exactly got them into hell.

[@LuciLovesDucks]

@@Ironicuss Thank you. That’s exactly how I feel. It’s also only on its first season with only eight episodes. I thought they did a good job with the direction they’re going in.

[@Moghster6969]

I don't get your point about finalle

[@teacoon6399]

The way they were going about it wasn't really redemption, but self improvement. Redemption would require the sinners to acknowledge the wrong they did in their life and the people they hurt by their actions.

[@luxluther436]

I remember watching the last episode and sitting in silence until I yelled “THIS is what I waited 4 years for????”. Yeah, this is NOT the same Hazbin Hotel as the pilot. The gave it the Helluva Boss treatment and I’m mad about it.

[@Nopeasaurus]

same, im so disappointed. it made me go back and watch the pilot and reminisce of what could’ve been. i remember being unhealthily obsessed with alastor for the longest time but now i cant even stand him, amazon prime alastor feels like a caricature of pilot alastor. No amount of nice animation and catchy songs can salvage the mess of the first season. I dont care what ardent hazbin fans say, this show was really lackluster and I won’t be watching the next season.

[@conorrigoli7578]

@@Nopeasaurus womp womp

[@-.Cosmic.-]

@@conorrigoli7578 why are you saying womp womp?

[@user-x7dc2pq7n]

@@-.Cosmic.- they want to sound clever but have nothing else to say💀

[@-.Cosmic.-]

@@user-x7dc2pq7n real like thats not even how you use womp womp

[@LadyLaurapop]

I loved how you used Angel Dust's priceless angry face in the thumbnail! XD

[@DanielGoldhorn]

he grump

[@kita3664]

Theres one thing i noticed and now i cant ignore it anymore. Too many fricking suits, do some other clothes, godamn😭

[@bbean.loosey]

Wait yes this just made me realize and then picture everyone who wears one

[@Comet346]

I mean it is a hotel would do you expect? Many of the other characters aren’t even wearing suits. Some characters wear suits because it matches the era they died in. I guess suits also represent power and confidence.

[@kita3664]

@@Comet346 so what that its a hotel...??? Practically all the characters have the same weird bowtie its tiring to look at

[@crazycookie4645]

@@Comet346 It's still too much of the same thing being repeated over and over again, like the ridiculous overuse of red. Vox, Alastor, and Sir. Pentious in particular are all wearing basically the same outfit; a pinstripe suit with a bowtie. Sir. Pentious and Vox are also both wearing top hats. All three of the characters died quite a bit of time apart (1800s, 1930s, and 1950s), so their fashion sense shouldn't be this identical. It especially makes no sense for Vox, a character who's entire business depends on keeping up with the march of modernization, to dress in such a dated manner. And don't give me the, "he's trying to upstage Alastor and that's why he dresses like him" excuse. If he really wanted to replace Alastor's status as "the dreaded" in Hell, wouldn't it make more sense for him to embrace his modernity, even in his appearance, to show why he's supposedly better than the dated Alastor?

[@artistanthony1007]

​@@crazycookie4645This, absolutely this.

[@aricaj.3006]

Normally I'd say a show like this probably suffered primarily due to the limited runtime. But then you look at _Over the Garden Wall_ , which most fans seem to agree is an animated masterpiece. That managed to tell an exceptionally creative, fully-fledged story with well-rounded characters in only 10 episodes, each less than 15 minutes long. Maybe then the issue is just the writing itself and the inability to properly maximize the time allotted. That's not to say I don't think there are some shows whose problems would mostly be fixed by more episodes and longer episode runtimes, but if the writing isn't already up to par, then a change in length won't impact much other than pacing imo. Pacing is important but it's not the only element in good storytelling, even though I feel like a lot of media critics now believe it is. You can have a well-paced story that's still lacking in both plot and character development for other reasons.

[@markhumphreys4496]

She should have worked to the limited runtime not vice versa

[@weaseljay469]

there's a piece of writing advice i like, "kill your darlings", it means that sometimes you get attached to an idea that just doesn't serve the story. it seems like something vivziepop's projects struggle with. tough cause her genuineness is a big appeal for people who are fans of her work beyond this show, like how attached she is to her ideas and how much history they have with her. but i always think back to reading her old webcomic zoophobia as a teen, and it had so many of the same problems as hazbin, like way too many characters and plot threads, cool concepts being introduced and tossed aside, etc.

[@Sassafrass95]

don't forget they had 4 YEARS to come up with a plot for the series.... they gave us a pilot, dropped all communication for said 4 years minus merch sales and now not only is the pilot suddenly non canon (Even though it still has pilot in the name) but the series is crap despite them having had so long to come up with something)

[@PramkLuna]

@@aricaj.3006 on the opposite end, Bluey also has really well written, one off stories in less than 15 minutes

[@InahaFrost]

As Adam says in the first episode, Lucifer struck a deal so that the Hellborn wouldn't be exterminated Adam broke this in the finale, which is why his mask glitches when he threatens to kill Charlie at the end Which allows Lucifer to intervene almost immediately Also Mimzy helped facilitate a little Alastor-Husk dynamic but I agree, unneeded character, but cameo'd in the pilot

[@zeelovesu172]

But the cannibals aren’t Hellborn?

[@Ruxxide]

@@zeelovesu172 Hellborns bleed Black The cannibals bled red which make them all sinners

[@ShinoriDelfrim]

@@zeelovesu172 Yes but Adam threatened to kill Charlie, a hellborn and Lucifer’s daughter. That breaks the deal.

[@valeriarossini543]

I'm sorry but that wasn't clear at all imo

[@ShinoriDelfrim]

@@valeriarossini543 Yeah honesly I only knew this because multiple other people were mentioning it.

[@alexandermartin1222]

Bloat, plotholes everywhere, no losses at all on part of the protagonists, humor that completely kills any immersion, and sidelining the whole ass premise constantly. At least the character designs can be interesting.

[@MrSpartan993]

You can really TELL that this show was made by a character artist and NOT writer.

[@JMBAD_art]

Personally, I think they’re so over-designed. They reek of 2010s tumblr & Deviantart OCs. They have interesting elements, and the ways that they move and express themselves is fun and engaging, but the actual designs are, to use your word, b l o a t e d.

[@2l84me8]

Viv is known for her inconsistent writing and for dropping the premises of her shows as quickly as she announces them. Season 1 was a fast paced series of “tell don’t show” moments that aren’t fully utilized and don’t realize their full potential. We just get little snippets and the first season is over just like that.

[@yalovoyhznepomny]

to be honest, I hate that phrase. KZbin reviewers have heard this phrase and apply it wherever they go. This is bad, because sometimes the show has to show, and sometimes the shock has to tell. Otherwise, we'll get a Miami storyline, lore Fnaf, or worse.

[@litinup]

@@yalovoyhznepomny it’s not that direct/verbal exposition is bad it’s that sometimes details that hint/explain things is much better at times

[@yalovoyhznepomny]

@@litinup yes, but where exactly does this apply?

[@leyvadira]

​@@yalovoyhznepomny The first thing that comes to mind to me is Husk's exposition about everyone's issues at the hotel. That Vaggie hates herself, that Charlie wants to solve everyone's problems but her own, etc. We could have had character moments from them that hinted at that. Alastor and Husk also mention Charlie has daddy issues even before Lucifer was introduced. It feels like it comes out of nowhere imo. Like it would have been nice to see these characters interact and be able to get what their whole deal is instead of simply being told about it.

[@insert_apathetic]

@@leyvadiraI totally agree, the show tells us those problems rather than show them. In episode 4, angel says “this is my escape” and then the proceeding lines would have been nice to pick up on our own.

[@BaileysArt15]

It irritates me how Charlie is such a pushover in the actual show. In the pilot, she was a lot more assertive which is what is needed to prove yourself in the world.

[@alcremiecutie334]

She's not a pushover. She's really kind. Can't female characters in shows and movies be kind anymore?!

[@pemdemica1712]

@@alcremiecutie334no one said that, but she’s just to passive.

[@alcremiecutie334]

@@pemdemica1712 SHE'S NICE AND KIND. NOT PASSIVE

[@SpoopySquid]

​@@alcremiecutie334it's possible to be kind while not being a complete doormat. Look at Doctor Who, especially the 12th Doctor, for an example

[@alcremiecutie334]

@@SpoopySquid Staning up for yourself is selfish!! Charlie is NOT selfish!!

[@Noursinette_]

11:33 my favorite part of the video. Alastor is a enslaving abusive serial killer, who's insanely manipulative. Everyone treats him like he has a heart, or that he's good deep down, but I really, truly think he's irredeemable. If he ever gets redeemed I'll lose all respect for the show.

[@galacticghostie]

What's even sadder about the Mimzy thing is she was originally a main character. Niffty sort of took her place randomly one day. And now she's just... A call back or easter egg for people who's been following Viv's work longer than other people. 🤦‍♀️

[@runajain5773]

Wait what

[@SodaFrizz666]

And angel dust was originally a gender fluid drag queen!.. instead of an over the top, gay man caricature

[@redcats87]

"Hazbin Hotel" and "Helluva Boss" are those shows where if you don't have the slightest critical thoughts about them, you'll find yourself immensely enjoying them. When you actually do start to think from a critical viewpoint, however, pretty much everything begins to implode upon itself. They're shows to turn your brain off to.

[@Luna-Moon.UnderFNAF]

I have a lot of critical thoughts about Hazbin Hotel but it’s still is my favourite show

[@OliverOilFr]

my problem with that is that I can only enjoy stories with good world-building so it really messes with me lol

[@dontneedyourlove]

as a victim of this, i completely understand what you're saying

[@scaramouche6870]

I think helluva boss is better written though, even if it has MAJOR writing issues

[@dontneedyourlove]

@@scaramouche6870 yeah

[@raggens]

Ppl are talking about how Amazon didn’t let Viv and her team use their full potential bc they were only given eight episodes. Yes, it sucks that big streaming platforms are making seasons shorter, but even with eight episodes it’s still ultimately Viv’s team to write something great. Hell: Arcane and Blue Eye Samurai had pretty much the same number of episodes in their first seasons, and they were able to take their time in exploring their characters and stories. That, and they made their episodes longer than 20 minutes each

[@yalovoyhznepomny]

Arcane is not so good, but still better than Vivien job

[@akisatsuki8444]

@@yalovoyhznepomny huh. It’s not every day you come across someone who doesn’t think Arcane is the peak of modern art. Can I ask why you didn’t find it good?

[@yalovoyhznepomny]

@@akisatsuki8444 An absolutely incomprehensible world (the conflict between 2 cities is extremely "clear") and absolutely wonderful characters like Jinx- a crazy character in a bad way

[@WalkingJellyfish]

If Vivien had been allowed to do more episodes, she would have simply added four hundred more grinning characters to the series.

[@raggens]

@@WalkingJellyfish Yeah, that’s pretty much the problem. The team should’ve hired ppl willing to give them self-restraint rather than yes men who can’t tell Viv “no”

[@Tnpt_studios]

Thank you for bringing up the Valentino and Alastor problem. Both are horrible, yet the fans seem to want Valentino's head on a pike but want Alastor [ the serial killer and master manipulator ] to be the good guy! The hypocrisy and lack of awarness is genuinely mind boggling.

[@x._.rexy.poo_]

I think it’s likely because most people experience sa in one form or another at one point in their life. Meanwhile, not a lot of people have experience with a cannibalistic serial killer. So maybe they can relate to Anegl better??? It could also be that people just like edgy characters like that generally speaking and generally speaking again, people don’t like sa characters. Oh and let’s not even forget that Valentino has been shown to be nothing but Angel’s abuser and rapist. He has like no personality basically. Alastor is just more likeable in general if you ignore all of Valentino’s and Alastor’s crimes

[@Tnpt_studios]

@@x._.rexy.poo_ I get where you are coming from. I'm not trying to invalidate Angel's, or Anthony's, abuse. It is truly a VERY hard thing to go through. I myself am not to fond of how the show treated the subject but can appreciate that they tried. I'm also not against people liking Alastor's character. He is definately one of the stand outs of the show, even more so than Charlie, the main. My main critique of the fandom of hazbin is that they seem to be too enamoured with Alastor, simply pushing aside all the horrible things he has done. I hope you understand where I am coming from.

[@yalovoyhznepomny]

The dumbest claim of haters and fans is the hypocrisy of the series. No, there is hypocrisy there, but not where you see it. As for Alastor, where did they show him as a good person? When were we justified in his actions? Where is the hypocrisy here?

[@ItPreach]

@@yalovoyhznepomnyHe’s talking about THE FANS being hypocrites, not the show itself.

[@yalovoyhznepomny]

@@ItPreach Haters also hypocritical, but who cares?

[@timeenoughatlast3368]

To me, what seems very apparent is that Vivzi as the creative lead has never actually considered the logistics of how her worlds work, or the moral implications of her characters and plotlines. Hazbin Hotel has a stale, childish sense of right and wrong that fundementally misunderstands the entire point of Paradise lost. There is literally no meaningful moral destinction between the Exicutioners and Cannibal town. Or Alistar and Valentino. You can't show me that murder and mayhem is bad while also deminstrating how this world can literally only function or survive through extreme violence. One really funny thing is that Charli by complete accident is either 100% fine with slavery, or is so stupid that she has no idea its happening. Husk being in her employment entirely through a debt to Alistar is so reprehensible that Vivzi has to be unaware how badly it ruins Charli's season arc. I could honstly talk for hours about every writing choice in this show its that incoherent. Every time I think about it, something new and glaring gets my attention

[@WeebGuru6]

Holy shizz ur right why is Charlie ok with this she’s a also major problem she’s not a good character or mc

[@pinata111colada]

tbh i do understand why charlie is oblivious to husks situation bc after all she is a pampered daughter of hell. She grew up in a world where soul contracts are normal, and I'm not surprised that the daughter of Lucifer doesn't mind evil acts. I do agree it makes her unlikable, but the mc does not always have to be likeable, if anything it's probably better if they have some flaws. Also, it's partially used as a joke against her, in the same way that Sir Pentitious bad at being bad is a joke. I do agree there are some issues in general with the story (eg. why is the oldest demon only from 1600?? why do all the demons speak english??), but also it is a comedy, which does mean not taking a lot of the small things too seriously. Hell, even with established good shows like ATLA, you could still nitpick things like how come there were no language barriers? or how did Aang even survive in that ice over all that time, when that's not how it works irl? How did appa survive? why didn't zuko's father just kill him? But you just don't take it too seriously, bc it's a kids show, and it does a good enough job of exploring the main plot and ideas. And well, also, most importantly, it's entertaining :)). I think viv did a good job with 8 episodes, sure it's not perfect, but hey what isn't and it was enjoyable nonetheless

[@zillva]

Why is paradise lost relevant here? There's also not supposed to be a big moral distinction between the exterminators and the cannibals. We don't know everything yet, and that's fine. Its far too early to judge it on what has and hasn't been explained yet, when its likely supposed to have 5+ seasons of story

[@WeebGuru6]

@@zillva no u need to establish the rules of ur world as soon as possible so people get it but viz doesn’t do that & since its using a location people know they’re gonna use world logic which hurts her story

[@zillva]

@@WeebGuru6 The intro of the first episode already establishes heaven as a not-so-good place when Lucifer is condemned to hell for giving humanuty free will. Heaven viewed free will as a bad thing. That alone should tell you enough. The series isn't fit for a review yet, due to how little of its story is covered. It would be like watching the first 4 episodes of Game of Thrones, and then dismiss the rest of the show afterwards

[@kittymarch4203]

They need to hire new writers 💀

[@JustAnotherAppole]

Exactly, they need to pay some commenters to be a second opinion instead of having 10 writers 😭

[@valeriarossini543]

it's a bit insane that they have 10 writers, but the show still turned out so half assed...

[@Say_gexx]

@@valeriarossini543 10 writes is the problem. Too many cooks in the kitchen

[@Nik0__]

@@valeriarossini543too many cooks in the kitchen not that many servers/waiters

[@kita3664]

Get vivzie out of the writing room 😭🙏

[@rbfloat]

Hazbin’s squandered potential is the most frustrating thing about the show. It such an interesting concept with interesting characters but everything gets muddled.

[@bigantdud3499]

this is kind of a nitpick from me but why do angels like adam and saint peter who lived thousands of years ago just talk casually like how we do present time when their way of speaking when they were alive was super different

[@grAnita-]

Another incontinence among billions of incontinence in the show

[@bigantdud3499]

@@grAnita- overall i think the show was mid i dont hate it but there is so much incontinence in the show that makes the show so frustrating to watch

[@grAnita-]

@@bigantdud3499 yeah agree

[@AvgHamster]

I just kinda see it as like how we change our speech patterns as we get older. I know that I personally end up using new terms, phrases, etc as I see them in pop culture, so I talk a lot differently than I did even a few years ago. Or no one thought of it like others have said, idk lol

[@lilbunny9833]

@@AvgHamsteryeah but then characters like Alastor and god i forgot his name but that one Archaic overlord talk like the time period they’re from. So it’s just inconsistent

[@wyldetimesreviews]

I like how you focused on the show's missed potential. I can see how a lot of the ideas, in theory, that are in Hazbin Hotel could be interesting if handled correctly. However, so much of it isn't, and if they hope to even attempt to correct their next season that's one of the first places they should look into - how to embrace the potential the show has and work with it.

[@blaria95]

So true

[@AbimaelLopez-hz3qq]

@@blaria95someone that works on hazbin made a comic called red poison on KZbin and it’s better if you just read it and don’t listen to the voices

[@AbimaelLopez-hz3qq]

@@blaria95the KZbin channel is called MADdNESS someone that worked on hazbin made the comic

[@MrSpartan993]

At this point a lot of fanworks are better written and that’s kinda pathetic.

[@philippschwarz4539]

It's so frustrating when you want to like a show, but it has so many flaws.

[@Lily0844]

2:00 ARE WE NOT GOING YO TALK ABOUT HOW A MAN IS HUMPING A POLICE CAR??? 😭😭😭

[@AsterWi]

nobody wants to talk about it

[@I_Dont_Believe_In_Salad]

​@@BreadIsABlessing last time i watched Hazbin Hotel, there are no police in the series, only bodyguards

[@montemiller5738]

@@BreadIsABlessing that's not hazbin hotel, that's paradise pd

[@pariahdark1892]

@@I_Dont_Believe_In_Salad But if Helluva Boss is in the same universe....they have a prison system so there must be police there somewhere.

[@kojoattah3987]

@@pariahdark1892The concept of jail in Hell is so astronomically dumb lmao😂 AND they have banks like the hellaverse is literally earth but red with more freaks walking around 💀

[@Cobalt360Degrees]

The thing that annoys me the most about Mimzy is that she's the only one in the show who also knew Alastor in life. I wish I knew that Alastor is in Hell because he was a serial killer in life from Mimzy telling me that in the show, instead of having seen a Vivzie fan mention it in a comments section because Vivzie mentioned it in a livestream a decade ago or wherever she actually drops her lore. She could've easily justified her presence _even a little bit_ by giving us information about him that only she knows, and especially because, in that scene, Alastor isn't in the room to stop her from blabbing. I hate how half the interesting things I """know""" about any of the characters is apparently from tweets or livestreams literal years ago instead of in the show where they would actually matter.

[@Rerizga404]

Not only mimzy but also rosie and maybe even vox know alastor

[@twistysart]

23:36 Nope! people in hell who die slowly regenerate painfully but you’d have to watch vivzie pop explain that in some twitter or live stream instead of seeing it actually happen in the show which is so stupid…

[@michaelortiz1561]

There was ONE throw away line about velvettes top model being torn apart by Val and not having the time to pull her self together, while another model is holding what you can presume is said models body parts

[@pringletingle4192]

i thought i heard somewhere that they become the eyes on the buildings?

[@kat4923]

Wait, so even the ones killed by angels regenerate? Or angelic weapons make them disappear? Because if they can always regenerate... What's the point in a genocide? Heaven wants to control their numbers.

[@Sifya]

@@kat4923 Sinners can be come back to life no matter whta's happen unless they got killed by angelic weapon, in that case soul die and becoming part of universe. Yes Viv told but not explianed in series. More less like angel die,my theory they don't defenitive di but took a long time to come back to life expcially if they are far away from heaven. Because remember angel are suppost to be stronger then sinners but they died by a group of tramps. And we are talking a lot of people, for example my country there only 96.000 people, so 6 people have defend an army?

[@phifuru]

that seems to be a recurring problem with that show, vivziepop expects everyone watching the show to be a superfan who's watched the pilot and have tuned into every little live stream so doesn't explain things that should be explained in the show.

[@StealthheartDraws]

I think the biggest issue with the show is how they touch on things and then leave them. The SA in the show is so subtle that I had to explain to someone why Angel Dust was a victim and it wasn’t 100% consensual. And I hate how it’s never addressed again besides when he saves Niffty from Valentino. I get that his soul belongs to Valentino but I don’t see how nobody has an issue with what he’s doing after that. I feel like the entire show revolves around Alastor. I agree - no notes on him. Sir Pentious comes close, but I wish his sins were more obvious as to what he needs to fix. Angel Dust has problems with addiction and is selfish. That’s something he needs to work towards. Sir Pentious? Who knows? Yeah he was selfless at the end, but he wasn’t really the most selfish person to begin with. Maybe he was untrusting? But that’s not exactly something that is hell-worthy. Sure he did a great deed, but what evil in his soul changed?

[@DoctorKittuThe2nd]

Literally though How can they focus on him so much, yet him be so underdeveloped?

[@Kos1256]

Im guessing sir pentious was a treacherous bastard in his life and killed someone close to him so by sacrificing his life for his friends the evil in his soul was changed

[@chrisbacon1275]

Which is why nobody REALLY cared when he died. That's what happened when you dont develop your character and only kill him off for a sad "boo-hoo" moment instead of signifying some kind of change or character development. Maybe his sacrifice could've even been tied to his sin, showing growth, but that's too complicated for these writers ig

[@milkflavored]

Dang, this was a good comment. I just finished the series this week and was wondering the same thing. Sir Pentious seemed like a sweetheart the entire time 😂

[@TheoneANDonly.Josh288]

@@Kos1256the worst part is how we have to guess instead of actually knowing, because he was so undeveloped.

[@CoffeeCriminal]

I think it's hilarious that the worst episode was the one written soley by Vivziepop herself

[@YOKS_2578]

​@glitchon7151episode 1 overture

[@kiranaarthavitaherdiana5359]

@glitchon7151 The First One

[@doodlebug4360]

You know what annoys me. The pilot episode from all those years ago was better. Somehow, she got worse.

[@phungkim395]

@@doodlebug4360 the pilot was more iconic since it was the starter for Hazbin Hotel to sky-rocket and an overall better representation to the show than the first episode of season 1 i think if they had revamped the pilot to be ep1 though

[@angel_of_rust]

liberals shouldn't write fr

[@JMBAD_art]

“Rather than a character’s morality being defined by their actions, they are instead ‘good’ or ‘bad’ based on whether they are a protagonist or antagonist.” Ah, yes. The Harry Potter Problem.

[@yalovoyhznepomny]

Thanks for subtitles. They are really much better than if I were trying to understand English with auto subtitles

[@demogorgonqueen8772]

I was one of the people who watched the Amazon show first with no idea about the pilot… and boy I was confused

[@EmeraldAshesAudio]

Same here. It definitely felt like I was missing something & they were giving a quick recap of major plot events. I really wish they'd integrated some more aspects from the pilot into the actual show.

[@Rerizga404]

Me too, I watched the show before the pilot yet still understanded everything

[@A_Krix]

Me too, yet I enjoyed the songs and so I understood it better than I thought I would

[@andrewkuebler4335]

I 1000% guarantee that Mimzy only appeared because she was a character Vivzie had sketched before with Alastor and she wanted to include her. She was there because as an artist and not a writer, Vivzie can get too attached to her creations, and fails to make them actually have an relevance in the story she is trying to tell.

[@artistanthony1007]

Dont forget Viv cannot sacrifice and wants to do everyone and everything.

[@Dragonmongamer]

I’ve heard of a phrase in writing called “Kill your darlings” where if something just can’t work out in a piece of work or worse, harms it, wether it be a character, a plot point, a scene, etc. Get rid of it. And I’m sorry to say it, but I feel like they should’ve done that with Mimzy. She doesn’t really serve a purpose in the show as emphasized in the video.

[@EmeraldAshesAudio]

@@Dragonmongamer Viv didn't even need to get rid of Mimzy completely. Another commenter made the good point that Mimzy knew Alastor in life. She probably knows about all the serial killer / cannibal stuff that no one else knows. Viv could have kept Mimzy in her back pocket & then brought her out in a later season to drop lore that is currently not established as cannon.

[@nikashae575]

@@Dragonmongamer I've heard it called "kill the ugly baby" too 🤣🤣

[@DylanoRevs]

Honestly, Mimzy should've appear as a cameo like Baxter and Angel's brother (Arackniss i think) in the final episode. And then in season 2 is where she would get a speaking role.

[@2l84me8]

11:15 I agree. Everytime I ask a question about inconsistency or confusing writing, I get ambushed by a bunch of fan theories with no evidence.

[@DickMasterAdamRules]

Let's all agree,i was the best part of the show

[@DanielGoldhorn]

😒😒😒

[@crod9905]

Facts.

[@KingPebble84]

@@DanielGoldhorn what’s the problem?

[@minominoo143]

No thanks!

[@asjdhuiwadh]

Fax fr

[@Strangerontheweb67]

Honestly hazbin hotel should have stayed on youtube, atleast viziepop could have maked a more omogenic story and not a speedrun animation

[@WeebGuru6]

I agree but doubt it look at helluva boss

[@Sassafrass95]

they clearly showed they can make it work too! look at Helluva boss. That show has two whole series going for it but yet it took them 4 years for ONE series for Hazbin? The only thing they gave us between then were merch sales and a golden carrot dangled in front of our noses then ripped away.

[@kylezdeath]

@@Strangerontheweb67 maked💀

[@untappedpotential2761]

Honestly for all its faults, Hazbin is still a better 100th year anniversary for Disney than Wish ever was.

[@NeoSonic64]

The fact that "Once upon a stuido" a short, that reuses a ton of scenes and some new animated ones, says alot. I honestly wish that short was a movie

[@Nopeasaurus]

i liked once upon a studio but they ruined it when they made hans from frozen look like the hitler of disney villains by having elsa keep him for even attending the very studio that created him. hans isnt as evil as the scar, frollo, mother gothel, or literally any other villain and yet most of those villains were able to attend.

[@Nopeasaurus]

hey, wish’s animation is much better than hazbin’s. the problem with wish is the writing, music, and artstyle NOT the animation.

[@SomebodyWhoExists23]

@@Nopeasaurus nah animation was definetely something that people hated about the movie.

[@aggressive_baguette]

😂😂😂

[@DrAngelKins]

The series has too many plots, and it doesn't connect to the theme. The pliot literally was simple but was perfect. The series is out and tries to jam you with tons of plot, but not trying to introduce characters or the hotel. Then we get heaven in the same season... oh dear, that's too much, and it's not woven nicely.

[@scotchdeblanc]

The one thing I believe pulls the show back is how VivziePop is still stuck in her Deviantart past. Her characters are pretty good but most of the details we get about them are scribbled on their introduction art. Yes she was on Tumblr but the old DA vibe is still there. It feels as if she saw an opportunity to info dump about her characters and make it animated and went too far. Look at Helluva Boss, after a few episodes she dropped the act and the show isn't about the actual idea but a playground to show off as many ocs as possible. VivziePop doesn't care about making the show good, it's all self indulgence for her as if she's a young adult again hyperfixiating on her own characters. Unless she stops that addiction to the attention her creations get she will never truly care to make her show good. Why didn't she get a continuity supervisor? Because they would throw off her info dumping

[@whateversinmymind5644]

Hazbin hotel is what edging feels like

[@SevenReads007]

Except it doesn’t feel good, you’re just constantly disappointed and facepalming.

[@whateversinmymind5644]

I was following the series since 2014, wishing one day it would be an actual show. Only to be served with constant swearing, half baked writing, awkward pacing, and monotonous character design for the newer characters. I still sort of like the series but damn....after watching it, I said to myself: "Wow...the writing's ass".

[@kvr0n248]

It’s been around since 2014??? Omg

[@pokekj]

edging feels way better

[@Dr.Oofers]

@@kvr0n248 Reminder that Vivziepop is 31 years old. Yeah, no doubt this was conceived around 2014.

[@acsaudiodramas]

My theory is that Sir Pentious surfaced in Heaven because he died a martyr. But it's downright idotic that the angels themselves don't know what qualivies for getting into heaven.

[@Sifya]

Honesty doesn't make sense because ser pent is only demon who sacrifice himself in 10000 years? I think he starts to live like Adam list said but plus he redeem his action in his mortal life. The show wants to show angels corropt but there is a big problem. They don't choose who go in heaven, angels manage souls don't judge them. And hell is indeed full of horrible people they are not here by mistake. Before you tell but adam, Adam could be a nice man when he died but he lost himself in years, look that eyebang and food disorder, this is not a happy person. So ser pent remeed himself because he got better and face his sin being betrayer. So in few words divine judgement is severe but just.

[@Dr.Soda1]

Maybe the world is run on the beliefs of Calvinism

[@Sifya]

@@Dr.Soda1 no, because divine Predestination would never allow a sinner who already being sent in hell to become an angel

[@Dr.Soda1]

@@Sifyadarn.

[@duskproductions3942]

@@acsaudiodramas similar idea with me. Death is the one true connector in both universes. How does one get into hell? Die. How does one get into heaven? Die. How does one get into the other? Die. Even Lucifer's fall was a death of sorts. I think Pentious got into heaven because 1. Self sacrifice 2. Completed an afterlife goal (kissing Cherry) 3. Died. 4. While he has his pocket of fans, wother Angel or Alastor would break the internet if they got redeemed

[@thechickenwizard8172]

It's pretty hard being a fan of this series. I love animation, and am really glad this show exists as a testament to indie animation's potential to succeed. But when the result is less than half baked, it's difficult not to feel let down. Plus, as a straight non-furry guy, I'm not really the target audience for any of vivs work. Idk why, but I always feel a little...embarrassed to watch helluva and hazbin for some reason

[@blackchickiedee7]

Listen, it's 2024 and there's nothing wrong with watching furry things 😅 I know straight dudes who enjoy Sailor Moon or My little pony. Watch what you like :3 but I do agree that Hazbin is only getting by from doing the bare minimum it seems. The story has great topics to discuss and dive into but unfortunately it's overshadowed by the animation and the songs which aren't really all that great either honestly. How does the pilot look better than the series?...

[@zackueen]

as an lgbt non-furry i feel embarassed by the jokes honestly:')

[@Flameonoodle]

I used to feel that way too, nowadays the only thing that really irks me is Viv's obsession with hot buff canines, like the dudes getting down with Angel in Poison, that random giant Wolf Lady in the overlord meeting, etc. Also I hate that there's no real explanation for why the characters just turn into animals. Does God in the Hazbin Universe just say "Hmm, he would look good as a chinchilla" (And keep them locked in that body even when they go to heaven I should add)

[@DrawciaGleam02]

@@Flameonoodle Actually, a sinner's form is influenced by their personality traits and even how they died! I consider it the dark version of getting a cutie mark...... I think KZbin has some lore videos on how sinners get their forms....

[@al8951]

​@@Flameonoodlethat wasnt a Wolf, that was Zilla, she is a dinosaur overlord lol

[@dedeed2519]

star vs the forces of evil if every word was fuck

[@quincyjones5676]

I’m trying to figure out still, where did Charlie get her daddy issues if her dad is super supportive and wants to be in her life? 🤷🏽‍♀️ I gave real daddy issues and it’s cuz I have an abusive dad not because my dad is my biggest fan 😂

[@TB-yz9jj]

Same here. I have a feeling like Vivzie thinks that having daddy issues is good for character development, but lacks the vision of how it actually works. Im sorry for your situation though. Hope u okay now

[@OliverOilFr]

I mean, I think the point is that "he was depressed and didn't want to bother his daughter" but idk

[@RonnieBunns]

I think it’s cause he wasn’t really present for example the lyric in Charlie and Lucifer’s song more than anything “When I was young, I didn't really know you at all I always felt so small” Yes Lucifer is a good dad but he was probably too busy for Charlie being king of hell and all and as a result left her feeling like she wasn’t important enough to him in her childhood

[@pensandshakers]

It's pretty obvious that some serious change went into Lucifer behind the scenes. From looming over Charlie in her very first song to obsessed with ducks. WTF.

[@thisguy8597]

I think the biggest and simplest problem is that its only 8 episodes, So a lot of things got squeezed in and speedran without proper development.

[@bewareking6458]

Now that I agree with. Personally, I enjoyed season one,but it definitely has its pacing issues because of it being 8 episodes. Hopefully, when season 2 comes out, they'll have more episodes to flesh out the characters more.

[@HankJWimbleton-v1m]

@@bewareking6458 Should've been 10 or 12 episodes in my opinion.

[@raggens]

I mean, even with 8 episodes they could’ve written something good and not half-ass everything

[@hunty.0]

@@raggens Exactly. 8 episodes is enough to set the core premise, which is the hotel and the main cast. It could've focused on Angel Dust and Val while also giving just hints to the other V's, and kept the angel killing a mystery or saved for another season. Maybe even have Angel Dust confront Charlie when they find out that Charlie is doing this with blind optimism without doing proper research about redeeming souls to Heaven, and why she would want to help Sinners since she is hellborn. But nope, they gotta shove 2 or 3 story arcs that could've spanded for another season or 2 into just one 😑 Viv was impatient and wanted to shoehorn everything without focusing on the premise of the plot.

[@iateyursandwiches]

@raggens yeah, I'm not sure how the excuse of: " I'm not sure if we would get another season so we rushed everything" is a good one. I say set up the best story you can and hopefully it gets another season just because it's so good. What's the point of rushing a show and making it half asses to fit in one season where it will be remembered forever as half assed? you can instead have a show that even if it feels incomplete, we would know why at least and no one would blame the writer...it would have the legacy of being great for what it was.

[@Quasar-fv8to]

Frustrating is an understatement. The show was categorically bad; from writing, to character portrayal, to "comedy bits", to the logical progression of the story. It was all just straight up bad. The only good part, imho, was the art. The art carried this show so well, it would not be an understatement to say this show wouldn't even have 10 concurrent viewers if the art was just as bad as all the other elements of the show.

[@glitchyboi-nk1qv]

I think the biggest issue is that they never gave a reason as to why Charlie thinks they can be redeemed Edit: or why they should be Edit 2: also what they shoulda done was move the trial to episode 1 so even if you missed the pilot on KZbin (or didn’t know about it) you knew what was going on Have them say “alright, you wanna see if you can redeem a sinner? Very well, but we choose who you have to redeem, if you can redeem 1 sinner before the end of the next extermination, we’ll support this idea and tenants of the hotel will be exempt from here on, however if you can’t fulfill this, the hotel is now null and void plus your protection during extermination will be revoked” Add some risk to Charlie if the plan fails, adds to the tension

[@chimanruler15]

I actually love this idea! It would make made things much more streamlined! And, the show would have focused on the most important thing it mostly ignored: the damn hotel!

[@glitchyboi-nk1qv]

@@chimanruler15 right? Could even make her act a bit selfishly at times and it worsens bit by bit as the deadline closes in and she realizes she messed up which results in her making a 180 back to who she was before

[@chimanruler15]

@@glitchyboi-nk1qv Yeah, that's good! It would lead to character development for Charlie!

[@glitchyboi-nk1qv]

@@chimanruler15 gonna be honest, Charlie as she is is pretty bland as a character, I find Sir Pentious and Alastor more interesting, Alastor solely because he feels outta place (in a good way) Pentious actually had a character arc

[@chimanruler15]

@@glitchyboi-nk1qv Yeah, I agree. Those two were far more fleshed out than Charlie was.

[@MrSpartan993]

Viv can’t write. She can’t even do “show don’t tell” which is high school english writing 101. Amatuer hour.

[@yalovoyhznepomny]

To be honest, I hate that phrase. KZbinrs reviewers have heard this phrase and apply it wherever they go. This is bad, because sometimes the show has to show, and sometimes the show has to tell. Otherwise, we get the storyline Miami, lore Fnaf or even worse.

[@artistanthony1007]

​@@yalovoyhznepomnyCode Lyoko does it for many moments and it works, you have just seen terrible examples.

[@pemdemica1712]

Chill out….

[@chrisbacon1275]

​@@yalovoyhznepomny "Show don't tell" simple refers to how you can't rely on just dialogue to carry your story for you, which is what this show suffers from. Vizie will release important details in streams or have one of her characters blurt out some important piece of lore, but refrain from showing WHY it's important or WHY we should care

[@yalovoyhznepomny]

@@chrisbacon1275 What do you mean? You'd better watch Madness Combat, which has no dialogues and maybe you'll understand the plot... With 5 views, maybe less. Similarly, in Fnaf and Hotline Miami. The show should not constantly show something, although these 3 examples rather have poor visual plots, because in silent films it is clear without dialogues. In short, do fans of this phrase not understand that without dialogues we will just watch a black and white silent movie? I do not deny that sometimes you need to be silent, but I do not know how the Hotel generally refers to this phrase. Unless episode 5 is constantly pouring an ungodly amount of water on the viewer.

[@samuelholbrook2006]

12:00 “the common denominator seems to be whether a character is a protagonist or an antagonist” I like to call this “Harry Potter morality”. There are no good or bad actions, only good or bad teams. Shaun’s Harry Potter video sums it up best

[@michaelortiz1561]

Maybe the movies but the books aren't like that.

[@samuelholbrook2006]

@@michaelortiz1561 the books are precisely that. The movies clean up many of the unsavory bits of the books, like Harry Potter owning an actual slave

[@Jdudec367]

That isn't even the case in Harry Potter either really, There are good and bad actions there really. Nah Shaun got it wrong really.

[@JunKazamaFan]

One of the show's main problems is that Hell really isn't all that...Hell-ish. Aside from the yearly exterminations and possibly the consequences of selling off your soul, most of its residents seem quite content in Hell. Episode 8 has them banding together to fight back against the army of exorcists and prevailing with limited casualties. If the main threat to Hell can be eliminated by simply fighting back against it, what real incentive is left for redemption? Most of the inhabitants don't really seem to be suffering here. Furthermore, unless Charlie quickly finds out that Sir Pentious somehow made it into Heaven and redemption from Hell actually is possible, she's fighting a directionless battle. Heaven has no clear answers as to what gets someone into Heaven, and even Adam's on-the-spot list of qualifications is immediately dismissed after Angel Dust meets all of them.

[@JunKazamaFan]

Also, "Hell is overpopulated" is an issue we're told about, but never really shown that it's a problem.

[@ItPreach]

@@JunKazamaFanI think it was revealed that the overpopulation thing was a facade and the REAL reason for the exterminations was to prevent any potential rebellions from Hell.

[@blackchickiedee7]

Facts!!

[@Doodleandcompany]

@@ItPreachit was literally revealed within the first to minutes so they basically spoiled the twist immediately

[@DrawciaGleam02]

Yeah people are stating, "this version of hell seems sorta..... chill?" Add that to sinners typically having access to more magical abilities than hellborns and sinners being able to respawn after dying like Digimon..... Yeah, it makes some people confused about why hell is so bad. They really need to do more on selling the perks of life in heaven TBH. Heck, another KZbinr, CellSpex, pointed out that Charlie might have inadvertently INSULTED the other demons by suggesting they try to join the rank of the people who k*ll them each year. Consequently, they don't want to join her hotel..... .

[@cleantrashcanog]

Hazbin focuses on comedy too much in moments when it SHOULDN'T!

[@Dragonmongamer]

No kidding. Every time a serious moment happens in this show I just think “Oh boy, what unfunny “joke” is gonna ruin the tension this time?”

[@theotherther1]

I agree, the best comedy writers know when to be serious about something. Try reading Guards! Guards! by Terry Pratchett for some eyebleach.

[@RoamingTrend]

Mimzie was such a useless character that it makes me groan every time I see her. But i also realized that you can remove the Vees completely and it wouldn't change anything. They had no impact on anything going on in the main plot. 🤣

[@DrawciaGleam02]

Yo, Roaming! Love your video on this show!

[@RoamingTrend]

@@DrawciaGleam02 thanks!

[@kingjb554]

That's called setup, they're going to be extremely relevant in s2

[@IvannaRuizAgramonte]

@@kingjb554 still, they could appear Only in episode 8, at the end, and It would Change nothing. Except for Valentino, the Vs only dragged the story and not for good

[@kingjb554]

@user-ht7jg3dy1v what? No they didn't. The story is only consistent in the last 4 episodes, the first 4 are more episodic. It makes no sense to introduce only Val and then say "oh yeah he's part of a team." This is called world building. Vox has a connection to Al that's just important as Valentino to Angel. The overlords are the most compelling part of the story and those 3 have the most revelance

[@bbean.loosey]

everytime i think about all the morality stuff and what charlie even means by redeeming sinners i just think of the Good Place and how phenomenally they dealt with a topic/premise like this and it bums me out

[@azurefoxbh9280]

as someone who didnt watch the pilot i was very confused like who is alastor, who is angle dust, "why is he mad that Charlie didnt recognize him as a guest i thought he worked there" it was a mess tbh

[@ZoeLycan]

I love the show and the team, but I admit the show is messy and lacks order and rhythm I feel they tried to squeeze 2 seasons into 1, and having a song on ALL episodes, sometimes multiple songs, it breaks the natural flow. If anything, it gives little to no time for characters to breath or problems to proper settle down, and songs also don't shine proper. I understand their goal was to make a musical show, an already really hard thing to do. So, unless the show is written like a theater it most likely not going to work, as both styles will clash with each other. I would have much rather see this setting throughout 2 seasons, and have bigger songs take part every 2 episodes, leaving a serious episode in between so stories and drama can breathe and settle down.

[@Corrector1]

It wasn't "sometimes" multiple songs. Each episode got two.

[@diamoond11]

i feel the same. like, if you put all the storyline from season 1 in 2 seasons, at least a little bit it feels better. some episodes make me think like... yeah this wouldve worked better as, like, a whole arc. like Sir Pentius being a spy for Vox, Vaggie being revealed as an exorcist, etc.

[@ZoeLycan]

@@diamoond11 exact. But because they spent all time and effort on the songs story suffers. I get it's meant to be more like a musical. But even "Les Miserables" had times of quiet or let the scenery or characters emotions tell the story. Angel's episode is one of the best. With a heavy story. But they had to rush that so we had "Hakuna Matata" I mean "I'm a looser baby" Is not a bad song, but it kinda takes away from the seriousness of the story.

[@diamoond11]

@@ZoeLycan honestly hazbin hotel in a sense made me more appreciative of filler or arcs taking around 5 episodes to develop. Like when I saw Vaggie's reveal I just thought how perfect it would've been with, say, an amount of episodes like Steven Universe. Usually problems like these in that show would've taken at least 5 episodes to develop fully and explore the consequences, the emotions of the characters, their relationship with others and ending developing them. Because of its large cast some filler would've reeeeeeally served HH well.

[@ZoeLycan]

@@diamoond11 yeah. Hazbin Hotel should have been more like Steven Universe or Adventure time. With songs, yes but needs time to experience and FEEL the story and conflicts

[@shoolepak]

YES, Mimzy is literally the worst part of the show and her existence empathises on everything that makes this show not reach the heights it could have with some actually thought out storytelling. I was actually shown the Dat Beat Dad song before I watched Hazbin Hotewl, and that was my introduction. It left me believing Mimzy would actually be an important character, and the fact that she's not only makes her appearance that more annoying.

[@yalovoyhznepomny]

Mimzy is okay

[@filip6994]

not to mention the OVERABUSE OF KEY FRAMES ALL OVER THE PLACE. I SWEAR TO GOD I WANNA TEAR MY EYES OUT.

[@RoyaleAbsolution]

What's a key frame?

[@filip6994]

@@RoyaleAbsolution kzbin.info/www/bejne/m3-2aax_qtxphJosi=zTfGVm7JQxIW4M8d

[@filip6994]

@@RoyaleAbsolution kzbin.info/www/bejne/m3-2aax_qtxphJosi=5lqwy-II_W5z3Gjj

[@_Serial_Something_]

@@RoyaleAbsolution Key frames anchor points for actions in all different types of animation programs (this is a version of how it's explained but I don't trust my own words to explain it well enough)

[@darth_hideous-l9q]

You mean tween key frames?

[@Masochistgamer123]

I really hate the overused trope of 'Demons are good, misunderstood and angels are the bad guys!' Which is essentially this entire show in a nuthshell as Vivzie views it.

[@eri-chan1943]

I liked the show but the whole time it just reeked of "talented 12yo with overractive imagination" style writing and animating if that makes any sense. Definitely needed a year or two more in the oven.

[@AbimaelLopez-hz3qq]

Vivziepop was inspired by the lesser key of Solomon by Aleister Crowley I read it it’s good also I read a hazbin comic called red smoke on KZbin someone that works on hazbin made the comic its better if you just read and don’t listen to the people talking

[@overthemoon34]

@@AbimaelLopez-hz3qq The Lesser Key of Solomon was NOT by Aleister Crowley, it's FAR older than he is.

[@SodaFrizz666]

Or more like the baker needed to be experienced in cooking, not someone who decided they can bake 💀

[@overthemoon34]

@@SodaFrizz666 Cooking and baking are not the same thing.

[@hikaru1675]

10:30 That is not even the biggest problem with this plot point. One episode ago, Lucifer stated that Heaven "has a lot of rules." In the Bible and Dante's Inferno, the source material Hazbin Hotel was based of, there are clearly stated sins and virtues. In Helluva Boss, which is set in the same universe, the Cherups got casted out of Heaven based on specific rules. But for some reason, of all the rules they have, the angels have no idea what would make someone go to Heaven and have no interest in, like, specifying them? Are the 10 commandments a thing in the series? And if yes, why does no one of the angels know about them? I could understand if Heaven was very nitpicky and would use e.g. the 10 commandments to apply them either more favorably or unfavorably to a soul, even tho they deserve the other afterlife place instead. They could use that as an explanation as to why Adam went to Heaven. But the way it turned out in the show instead is just extremely lazy and just forced mystery and conflict. It's like the writing team didn't even bother to open up a Bible or even a Wikipedia article and just went with "nObOdY kNoWs!"

[@x._.rexy.poo_]

I think Viv wanted to go for “basically there’s wayy too many reasons you can get kicked out or not make it into heaven, but there’s no requirements if you don’t do those things”?? I’m pretty sure.

[@hikaru1675]

@@x._.rexy.poo_ in the show they actually just let some unknown higher power decide if someone goes to Heaven, even when an angel is fallen (like Sera suggested to Emily) and just leave it at that which... doesn't really makes sense and kinda shifts the blame for a supposed unfair system to some almighty power (probably God)? And apparently, even angels and fallen angels like Lucifer that should know God personally don't know what his rules are? So, they have a lot of rules but don't know the rules but they still kinda do for some rules and... it's a utter worldbuilding trainwreck.

[@fluoroantimonicacid4844]

Let's just straight to the point, vivziepop knows nothing about bible and hell she didn't take it seriously

[@insert_apathetic]

Yep Viv basically just put her own understanding and made it official instead of using actual verses or maybe other religions to tell a good story

[@Sifya]

What that dialogue mean, it is we don't ascend souls, divine judgement do it, and if they don't do with sinners it is not our place to argue.

[@joelbarraclough6689]

I think what also hurts on Hazbin Hotel kinda feeling rushed is either that Amazon or A24 just didn't give them a big episode length that be there contract I say if it got at least up to 10 or 12 episode length at best it can be more fleshed out

[@mollyfowles7863]

Eeeh from what we see from helluva boss it’s obvious that vivsi is just bad at writing 🤷‍♀️ if she was given more episode or time on the episodes it still wouldn’t be that much better

[@al8951]

There are enough Shows that had limited episodes but still Managed to have great writing and plot. A professional like viv should know how to manage her runtime, but she clearly does not

[@al8951]

And also, cramping the whole plot worth 2 seasons in just one is not the right way to deal with this. She just should have things cut out and save them for later seasons

[@valeriarossini543]

I really think it's a pacing issue more than a number of episodes issue. Many cartoons (like Infinity Train for example) manage to tell compelling stories in short seasons with 20 or 10-min episodes. I just think the story could have been paced better. Instead of introducing all these (admittedly) really cool characters, we could have focused on a smaller cast (i.e. just the characters in the hotel). In Roaming Trendʼs video about Hazbin it's suggested that the show could have opened with a scene similar to the trial scene. This would establish a more coherent narrative, because heaven might decide to let Charlie try her redemption idea and if she manages to redeem a sinner then heaven will back her up. This would allow the audience to know that redemption is possible (which eliminates a problem Hazbin currently has) and it would more organically establish Charlieʼs role as princess of Hell and the role of the angels as antagonists.

[@artistanthony1007]

No, you can do alot with 8 Episodes, Viv does not understand that or how to do it.

[@SpoiIedMilk]

(Fair warning, this is just a whole ass rant lol) This is coming from someone who has ONLY watched the pilot and first episode on KZbin. I'm gonna be so honest, I was bored with just the first episode that I didn't wanna watch the rest. The pilot is actually more entertaining than the first episode. The pilot seemed to just have better worldbuilding with the way they did it and how they introduced us to each character in such entertaining and unique ways. There were more characters in the pilot that were introduced yet I felt more overwhelmed in the first episode instead of the pilot. I believe it's because the first episode was just too much chatter instead of actually showing us how things worked like how the pilot did. Though, I have to give the first episode a few claps just for some small things. Vaggie and Charlie had a better relationship in the first episode than the pilot. I just liked that it was more easily noticeable and they didn't have to say "I love you" or "This is my girlfriend!" You could just tell from their actions alone and that's seriously beautiful. A small note is just how they match their outfits I just find so cute. (Side note to the small note, I sometimes wish Vaggie had her own style but the matching outfits are still cute!) In the pilot, literally nobody knew they were dating unless they followed Vizzie who had to come out and say they were dating. Charlie constantly downplayed Vaggie's concerns or advice in the pilot. Not at all healthy. It felt like Vaggie was just constantly trying to keep Charlie safe while Charlie just ignored her and did the opposite of whatever she said. Hell, they barely even showed any romantic gestures with each other. Or even say anything loving! (Charlie singing when Vaggie said not to since it's Hell and nobody respects that, Charlie trusting Alastor despite Vaggie saying no because he's a powerful demon with a bad reputation, etc.) Other than that, I don't like how they changed the rest of the characters. Vaggie and Charlie were definitely changed for the better but the others were SO downgraded. Angel Dust had an actual PERSONALITY in the pilot. We already know he's the sex guy, no need to shove it down our throats like that's all he is. In the pilot, he shows genuine care for Charlie and we get shown his close relationship with Cherry Bomb while still maintaining his 'I don't care, I'll fuck' vibes. I just don't like how he's just shock-comedy by saying out-of-pocket shit because literally everyone does that. It makes him awfully boring in just the first episode. That just hurts because I actually liked Angel Dust in the pilot from how funny yet not overbearing he felt. Even the small things such as him taking out an expired popsicle from the fridge and eating it to show he wasn't a picky eater was just amazing to me. The first episode just had to strip all that away and make him another "haha, funny sex man says 'daddy' to other man." Same goes for Alastor, he was SO downgraded. The pilot made him a force to be reckoned with. He tricked Charlie into letting him help and he was honestly just more respectable and intimidating while also being funny. The first episode TRIED to make him seem intimidating.. but really, he just didn't have much of a slightly terrifying presence to me like in the pilot. I understand that the show may have gotten better as it progressed since that was the first episode, but they had years of planning! I understand the pilot of shows being bad, most pilots are. Yet, I was just a bit disappointed with this. I won't be watching the rest of the series, but I hope it gets better for the sake of it's fans.

[@slamg4618]

I feel like the Good Place did this premise much better. In Hazbin Hotel, instead of sinners being “redeemed”, they just kind of just start being good after Charlie sings a song or some crap, or just suddenly become good people because the plot demanded it (For example, Angel Dust suddenly parenting Nifty). Instead of growth, character improvement just felt like ass-pulls. Whereas in the Good Place, the characters ACTUALLY GROW! They are forced to come to terms with the horrible people they were in their lives, often flashing back to the terrible things that they did, and thus the improvements they gain didn’t feel forced.

[@moonclip9997]

One of the things that bothered me the most as someone who was waiting for the show before the pilot even came out is that there was such a building to Lucifer's character, that charlie was shown to have a bad relationship with her dad and he would shut off her dreams and everything, I was seriously expecting him to be a top villain of the series because of how he was portrayed until then, but then, when the mother fucker himself appears on screen, they just make him a "haha depressed" joke, and the whole trauma stuff from Charlie I was waiting to be explained turned to be "oh uh, I was absent but I always supported you hun" like WHAT THE FUCK WAS THAT?? Charlie literally cried once on phone, calling her mom because she thought that her dad was right about her dream being stupid, this was SO UNDERWHELMING and I am still pissed, like yeah, Lucifer is a good character by himself, he's funny, he's sweet and blah blah, but he's just not a good character for the position he was placed at. And another problem with hazbin I that they never take serious things seriously, Lucifer is an example of this, the trial was an example of this, Adam was an example of this, the only things they seem to take seriously is Valentino, Angel Dust and Alastor, why? Alastor is a fan favorite, Angel is a fan favorite and Valentino is Angel's antagonist so to develop angel they had to develop him as well, but if Val wasn't a leverage for Angel, I swear he would be written as goofy as Vox, why? Because THE. SHOW. NEVER. TAKES. SERIOUS. SITUATIONS. SERIOUSLY. THEY NEVER TAKE MOMENTS OF TENSION SERIOUSLY!! They have no idea how to make a good climax without fucking it up by making "haha sex" jokes and I fucking hate it. And yeah, why is Valentino so different from Alastor when they're both, in the concept, tyrant overlords who bring suffering? Simple, Valentino is a leverage for Angel's character, not a character by himself, unlike Alastor who IS treated as a character in himself, he's written with the purpose of being entertaining, of having his own personality, meanwhile Val's personality is just Angel's evil villain pimp.

[@moonclip9997]

@logarithmus.naturali thank you, it's an honor 🧎‍♀️

[@Sonic2024freedomera]

@logarithmus.naturali sadly i don't think he would join...

[@PedroViniciusBCPires]

So... that is the biggest problem is that there not enought episodes to tell a better story?

[@DanielGoldhorn]

Honestly I think it's not a matter of having more episodes. You look at, say, each individual season of Infinity Train, they had ten episodes of 11 minutes each. That's equal to five 22-minute episodes. And they were able to tell complete and interesting stories within that timeframe while also leaving threads open for future stories. We still got payoffs and answers, while setting up new questions to bring us back. I fully believe that Hazbin Hotel had the space needed to tell a more compelling story, it's just a matter of using that space more effectively.

[@cosmicspacething3474]

⁠@@DanielGoldhorn Infinity train did have the advantage of different protagonists for each season though. There were some characters that were expanded upon from earlier seasons, but they still likely knew how much time each character would get so they could plan more accordingly.

[@goj1_lag00n]

If there were more episodes Viv would've just introduced more characters.

[@Mad_Ancient_Computer_700AD]

it's the writer's job to make a good series in however many episodes.

[@someone-xh9bu]

On the subject of the conflicting rules in the show, specifically Valentino and Alastor, I don’t think he’s meant to be ‘silly’ or ‘quirky’ at least that’s how I see it. The fandom has more or less ‘twinkified’ him which is super annoying. I believe he’s really just meant to be a careless, evil man tbh. Edit: before anybody accuses me of ‘comparing’ them, yes, they are comparable characters because they both own and clearly are terrible to souls. No, I am not comparing Alastor’s actions to s£xu@L assault.

[@leavemealone802]

You hitted right on the money It is good enough to make me care about it, but not good enough to hit the expectation. In fact the fact is so close to be amazing is what makes me angry. It feels like a waste

[@Emmalinezewyvern]

@@leavemealone802 agreed, For me it’s a case of “I’m just barely interested enough to keep watching when new things come out” but it’s always more of a chore than something I’m doing for my own enjoyment, Helluva is the same way for me but I’m just marginally more interested in that, I like both shows I just am never enthralled or captivated, It’s like sitting in the living room when your mom is watching something and you’re like halfway tuned in

[@Fryfly111]

I hate how they made angels swear, like saint Peter. It’s a sin to swear.

[@Arc_Nix]

Saint Peter is not exactly THE angel, just like Angel Dust and Sir Pentious aren't THE demons. He is a reincarnated human, and he isn't perfect. Not to say that, unlike most others in Heaven, he does actually have a job. Not physically demanding, but still monotonous and arduous job where he has to sit all day long looking through papers, congratulating righteous souls with words he repeated so many times that he probably doesn't even really mean it anymore. And he always has to have a welcoming smile on his face. One might think that he is one of if not the unhappiest and most bored soul in Heaven. And just when he goes through his usual script, something different happens, something that knocks him out of the usual flow completely. Makes sense for him to lose his cool and panic.

[@chessecontainment]

@@Arc_Nix but what about Adam?

[@d.m.darkmatter8286]

Its Vivziepop, what do you expect? It makes sense for Angels to nor swear, be more proper and all, but yk, Vivziepop

[@colonelcorn9500]

@@chessecontainment Adam's entire point as a character is to be a horrible person that only got into heaven because of a technicality. So him swearing like a sailor makes some sense. That doesn't justify the massive plot hole of why he got into heaven in the first place, nor does it justify the fact that he is just a one dimensional douchebag. It would be better if they put some actual redeeming qualities to him and explained why he went to heaven despite clearly being a sinner.

[@mr3rr0r15]

THANK YOU I FREAKING HATED IT WHEN THE ANGELS CURSE. I think it would have liked it if only Adam cursed cause he "thinks its cool" or something similar to that

[@vinegardoppio5501]

Stolas and blitz's relationship was rape. Angel dust sexually harasses everyone. Val is a rapist.

[@-syo-]

angel doesnt sexually harass people hes just horny ..

[@WeebGuru6]

Yea viz doesn’t seem to have a social awareness and needs someone to reign in her bad ideas

[@mirulei]

⁠​⁠@@-syo- angel literally grabs all up on and puts himself over husk unsolicited in every single interaction they have up to ep4 while husk is visibly revolted and needs to shove angel off every single time just to get him to stop since him saying fuck off always gets ignored. i love angel but saying he doesn't harass anyone and is just horny is like saying val doesn't assault anyone and is just doing business.

[@PlanetZoidstar]

*"Pretty fuckin' hot tho."* ~ Viv. Probably.

[@cesar6447]

what viv doesnt have is a mirror, to see and evaluate herself and what shes doing. The show is really hypocritical@@WeebGuru6

[@kingdingaling6516]

I love how Hazbin fans say they know the show isn't perfect, but then want to counter all the criticisms thrown at it.

[@Rerizga404]

So? Thats a genuine point they know the show is not perfeft but still likes it

[@kingdingaling6516]

@@Rerizga404 If you say the show has flaws, but insist to counter all the accused flaws throw at it, then you don't really think the show has mistakes. "Only 8 episodes" or "Short episode time lengths'' aren't actual criticisms.

[@Rerizga404]

@@kingdingaling6516 If you personally ignore the flaws and just enjoy the show like a normal person then thats ok. Tho defending the show with the points you just said is actually nonsensical lol

[@skittlz111]

I feel like the rick and morty or archer writers could nail this concept

[@WeebGuru6]

Another huge problem is the setting itself it’s constantly fighting with the story which hurts it because viz wants to write a grey morality nuanced story but sets it in the most black & white morality setting out there and she doesn’t show any distinct difference we should know about so we judge it on what we know about it using world logic which hurts tremendously people say it’s hell is a dumb reason are wrong because setting is part of the story of u create a world u can afford to not use real world logic in ur story and people not question it but with the downside u gotta explain while if u use real world don’t gotta explain it but have to use real world logic

[@cosmicspacething3474]

It could still work. Maybe Charlie slowly realizes that the black and white mentality that made the systems of Heaven, and Hell in the first place is the real problem.

[@_______________6104]

4:14 I just relized Charlie has 4 fingers on one hand and 5 on the other

[@artistanthony1007]

Oh god, that's not good.

[@Ginger_Went_Missing]

she has five fingers? on both hands

[@notfurry4259]

@@Ginger_Went_MissingI believe they mean on the 4:15 shot when she does that thing with her hands.

[@queendsheena1]

The series was a lot. I love the show, but I can see the flaws.

[@Thechamp2468]

I would have preferred it if it was more about the hotel and redeeming sinners instead of trying to rebel against heaven

[@vixxcelacea2778]

With Sir Pentious' death, I really liked how sudden it was. It shows how incredibly out of depth they all are to actually fight the angels and how risky it really was. I do agree that them being more shocked would have given that more weight while still having Adam have a comedic moment. The emotional whiplash of the two is a laugh or cry moment that could have been done better with the protagonists realizing how powerful the angels really are, then show how fearless Alastor is by going after Adam, then also realizing that he's losing. The Deus Ex Machina in the form of Lucifer also could have shown how powerful Lucifer actually is underneath his silly persona (which it feels like the show was trying to do.)

[@artistanthony1007]

Because Viv did not use the good faith criticism to improve writing for this show as well as other things, I'm officially done with her shows and already been done with her.

[@scotchdeblanc]

Is heaven infinite? "To fix the overpopulation of hell we will overpopulate heaven instead!"

[@charlottesouth4170]

You seem to have summarized my thoughts perfectly. Awesome video

[@Ashington_78]

This is probably the first hazbin hotel criticism video that genuinely had good points and really REALLY good comedy hats off to you good sir :)

[@barrybeebensonsdescendant]

My main issue with the series is the way the writers try to solve everything within just 8 episodes. This series is already agreed to get 3 more seasons but you don't get time to actually get attached to the characters and you don't really get to analyze complex dynamics because of how fast-paced everything had to be.

[@barrybeebensonsdescendant]

Like the hotel and Angel Dust's background are two of such important storylines but they get only like 1 episode of acknowledgement, at least, until it turns into a background plot until the writers feel like bring it up again.

[@mekingtiger9095]

Well, they got a lower than expected budget for this first season. So that might explain at least part of its problems for being so short.

[@barrybeebensonsdescendant]

@mekingtiger9095 ohh that actually makes so much more sense tysm!! Tbh I still kinda feel like these situations could've been handled more carefully considering the topics they're portraying or could've at least waited until another season was green lit, ykwim?

[@prodigal_southerner]

Your setup and execution on the "Hazbin Hotel if it was written by vivziepop" joke was impeccable.

[@Kittyboi.]

You literally just put all my feelings about the show into words! Like I am really invested in the show and am really curious what they do in season two but there was so much wasted potential! I really feel they should have just kept the pilot as episode one, reanimated to fit the show’s new more polished style, or just combine it with episode one and cut out the unnecessary bits. I have been hyped for this show for years but what we got was just okay and a little disappointing in some areas and right now I’m heavily relying on the fandom and their content to keep me invested. Also, in my opinion, the whole finale felt like a season two finale. Literally the episode before those two felt like it should have been the last episode if the show had ACTUALLY focused on redemption and the hotel.

[@avivastudios2311]

If they just said that in order to get into heaven you must love someone enough, I would be okay with that. Christianity is about love. So maybe you could've set it up so that hell is a place where nobody loves anybody. They're all backstabbing eachother in some way and Lucifer, the king of hell, is abusing his wife. Charlie is the only one who cares for someone. Vaggie. That would have been great. And then you can show how all the patrons slowly start to connect with eachother until they're finally redeemed.

[@josephbulkin9222]

What moron told you that Christianity is about love?

[@SpoopySquid]

Heaven: To be redeemed, you must love others Angel Dust: [Cracks knuckles] Well if you insist

[@Aerosmith1999-j6h]

What do you mean... Hazbin hotel is Clickbait? Like, its advetised as "Rehabilitation in hell" but within the first episode, seconds after the show starts, its already about killing Angels and warring with heaven. That sounds like clickbait to me.

[@mozax8118]

Honestly Dante's Inferno is everything Hazbin Hotel THOUGHT it was trying to be, yet failed. Both video game and the original poem.

[@fennaschlaman9119]

Bro I LOVED Lucifer's character in the video game. Ion even know what happened with the hazbin hotel one

[@leavemealone802]

What enjoy a story that is basically Hazbin Hotel, but better? Play the mobile games Obey Me and What in the Hell is Bad One is light-hearted, full of funny characters and gags, as well as emotional moments, following the plot "bringing peace between Heaven, Hell and the human world" . And the other is full of adult situations, s*x, cursing, but done in a way it is not obnoxious, and has a very tragic story between the war agaisn heaven and hell, as well with many subplots involving t*rture, vi*lence, sa... but you know, done well

[@Bloodjen]

Charlie's lack of a power moment frustrated me SO much. We get all season of "She's half Fallen Angel and half VERY POWERFUL sinner, the daughter of the first woman." We get Alastor and Rosie achknowledging that she's powerful, telling us Al is after her for her potential. And then we get to the finale and she... Is flailing around with a shield (ok she's never fought before, not her gig). Then Sir Pentious dies and she does her Sailor Moon Power Girl make over in anguish. Aaaaand immediately gets punched into a wall. No pay off for the transformation... but ok she's probably never done this before maybe she'll get a second wind- nope. No. Adam is choking her out, she's dying. No success. Lucifer pops up and saves her. Maybe father daughter duo- No she falls into a crevice and Lucifer has to put himself at risk to save the clutz. The big pay off of an entire season of "Charlie has potential power majorly" is... her punching Adam once and incapciatating him enough he can't fight further after already being tired out and exhausted from fighting everyone else + Alastor. I liked the moment of Charlie stopping Lucifer from killing Adam. I would've preffered it if Adam had gotten to live, having to deal with the fact he was granted mercy he's never given anyone. But no. Hehehoohoohaha. I like Nifty but bloody hell.

[@humanintelegence]

this show makes me want to watch The Good Place again

[@jameslazaridis4180]

Wanna bet

[@Jay_Walker_128]

Can we have ONE piece of fiction where Heaven is treated as Heaven?

[@lazyquahog9385]

God’s Demon by Wayne Barlowe did a good job with this, in my opinion.

[@Jay_Walker_128]

@@lazyquahog9385 Thanks

[@ZPaul_]

I hate the trope that all sinners in hell are “innocent”. Bruh them mfrs got sent down there for a reason.

[@imagery5425]

Why does Angel Dust have a bow tie? Aren’t there enough bow ties and pinstripes in this series already?